• Author: Kev
• Comments: 137

• Chelation
• Mercury
• Thimerosal

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<a href="http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2005/06/letter-to-dr-rashid-buttar-chelationist/">Letter To Dr Rashid Buttar, Chelationist</a>

Comments

137 Responses to “Letter To Dr Rashid Buttar, Chelationist”

1. 
   Kev
   June 24th, 2005
   05:49:01

   Bugger.

   +++++++++++

   This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification

   Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

   help@drbuttar.com

   Technical details of permanent failure:
   PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 10): 550 sorry, no mailbox here by that name (#5.1.1 – chkusr)
   ——- Original message——-

   Received: by * with SMTP *;
   Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:21:38 -0700 (PDT)
   Received: by 10.36.17.3 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:21:38 -0700 (PDT)
   Message-ID:
   Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 05:21:38 +0100
   From: Kevin Leitch
   Reply-To: Kevin Leitch
   To: help@drbuttar.com
   Subject: Request for Information
   Mime-Version: 1.0
   ——- Message truncated——-

   +++++++++++++

   If anyone has a working email address for Dr Buttar, please could they mail him the link to this page?

2. 
   Mitzy Lou Mastui
   June 24th, 2005
   06:16:58

   http://www.tddmps.com/gettingt.....osters.asp

   I’m really upset that people are acting as Dr. Buttar imposters.

   I mean, it’s way too confusing. Which is the real fraud and which is the fraud fraud?

   drbuttarclinic@aol.com

   that might work.

   No guarrantees though.

3. 
   Rebecca
   June 24th, 2005
   10:16:18

   Round of applause for Mr Leitch. Bravo. I suspect your enquiries will be met with a resounding silence, however…

4. 
   Kev
   June 24th, 2005
   11:07:09

   Resent to the email Mitzy supplied (ta Mitzy :o) ) so lets see if I get a response. Its not bounced back yet anyway.

5. 
   Kathryn Cramer
   June 24th, 2005
   16:12:32

   I presume you’ve seen Peter Watts’s extremely black-humored Power Point short story about a quack treatment for autism gone terribly wrong, entitled “Vampire Domestication.” Your note to “Dr. Buttar” made me think of it.

6. 
   random
   June 24th, 2005
   16:24:08

   Mr. Leitch.

   Your letters are well written, but not well referenced.

   You appear to treat the content of quackwatch as gospel.

   I’m sure you have researched the players behind quackwatch and the national council against health fraud.

   I’m sure you are familiar with Tim Bolen and his battles with the quackbusters. http://www.quackpotwatch.org/W.....ese_so.htm

   Mr. Bolen might be a fire brand, but he is thorough in his research and advocacy.

   You make many valid points in your writing, but in my opinion, it lacks some credibility when you site the quackbusters as the medical authority.

   Other than that, your letter to Dr. Buttar was awesome.

   Keep up the good work.

7. 
   Mitzy Lou Mastui
   June 24th, 2005
   19:46:43

   Tim Bolen is a bizarre man, and appears to be quite the fraud himself. He was hired to do press releases and such for one of the worst quacks on the planet, Hulda Clark, no relation to Lujene, as far as I know.

   quackwatch’s record is impeccable.

   Anyway, this is about Buttar and his quackery.
   ta to you, too, Kevin. (:

8. 
   Kev
   June 24th, 2005
   20:45:19

   Mr Random,

   You’re correct that I checked out the people behind Quackwatch. You may also note that Quackwatch was merely a convenient single location from which to gain all the quotes from. The quotes themselves still came from the AMA etc. Do you question their capability also?

   As far as Tim Bolen goes, anyone who writes PR copy for Hulda ‘The Zapper’ Clark is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

9. 
   Orac
   June 25th, 2005
   03:01:11

   Tim Bolen is Hulda Clark’s attack dog. Given that Hulda Clark is the single biggest quack that I know of, to me that relegates Mr. Bolen to utter irrelevance as far as a source of sound medical reasoning.

10. 
    Courtney
    June 26th, 2005
    18:52:21

    Nice article in the New York Times today regarding the debate over mercury poisioning and autism, and another seemingly sketchy doctor that has parents lining up behind him.

    Excellent letter. Keep up the good work for your daughter’s, and scores like her, sake.
    Courtney

11. 
    Jennifer Kurtz
    June 28th, 2005
    18:48:35

    Hi. Thanks for all the info on Dr. Buttar. I have been researching chelation after Robert Kennedy Jr’s article on the government’s coverup on mercury and vaccine’s. I respect RFK, Jr a great deal and feel he is a trustworthy source.

    Have any of you been onto the ewg.org website??? They talk about the inability of autistic children to detoxify themselves based on the findings of Dr. Jill James. She feels that a low glutathione level found in most autistic children shows that autistic kids can’t defend themselves against environmental toxins—this includes thimerisol.

    All of this is soooooo very confusing to begin with and add RFK, Jr’s expose saying that the govt not only knew about thimerisol but actively covered it up…it makes it very difficult to know who has our children’s better interests at heart and who does not

    Anyone have any ideas???

    We are taking our 3 1/2 year old to an environmental doctor in July for the first time because of the RFK interview on Scarbourough Country.

12. 
    HN
    June 30th, 2005
    05:52:02

    Jennifer, has your child’s pediatrician referred you to this “environmental” doctor?

    It is okay to respect RFK, jr as a LAWYER… but not as a health care professional nor as a science journalist. His article is seriously flawed and has been accused of using “selective quoting” to change what actually happened at the referred conference. Please check out http://oracknows.blogspot.com/ and http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/ for reviews of the article (the latter from a guy who read the entire report that RFK, jr took selected quotes from).

    In my humble opinion you time and money would be better spent on getting your child good neurodevelopmental therapy from a licensed speech/language pathologist (SLP, see http://www.asha.org ) and/or an occupational/physical therapist (OT/PT, see http://www.aota.org ) . There is also the Federally mandated “Childfind” from the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) from your local school district to get services for your child (call your local school district, since it is summer it may take a while for them to get back to you).

    My 16 year old son had seizures as an infant… this may or may not be the reason for his severe speech disability. I know of another 16 year old with the same disability, but his was due to meningitis from the Hib infection he almost died from (there was no Hib vaccine in 1988). My son could not speak when he was three years old… but he does now. The absolutely only thing he has ever been treated with was speech therapy and a very good special education program starting when he was three years old.

    Over the years I have seen lots of different “theories” and “therapies” get thrown about… though nothing as bizarre as the “Buttar Cream”, hmmm, except cranial sacral therapy (a kind of homeopathic head massage). Lots of it is pure nonsense.

    Save your money… call your school district and have your child’s pediatrician refer you to a good SLP and OT/PT.

    Added note: For any parent with a child who has speech and language issues, I highly recommend they read Childhood Speech, Language and Listening Disorders, What Every Parent Should Know by Patricia McAleer Hamaguchi

13. 
    William
    July 8th, 2005
    01:50:12

    Wow that was Sarcastic to the extreme…
    I’d rather give that creme a try vs. listen
    to the thousands of lazy doctors that say
    my child will never come out of his autism
    symptoms.

14. 
    HN
    July 8th, 2005
    06:16:22

    I’m sorry, I was not trying to be sarcastic. My son is not autistic (severe speech disorder which may or may not be related to a seizure disorder). He has only been seen by two doctors. The first one was the family practitioner who refered him to an SLP (speech language pathologist) much earlier than what was often the case then (this was BEFORE Thomas Sowell’s silly book about “late talking children”), and the second one was a neurologist who basically wrote a “prescription” for the speech therapy.

    Early intervention is often the best way to help kids. Unfortunately most parents must pay for neurodevelopmental therapy on their own. But it has been shown to work (did you look up http://www.asha.or or http://www.aota.org yet?).

    Do you have any scientific evidence that the “Buttar Cream” actually does anything, much less is actually absormed into the skin? That question could also be applied to other worthless things that parents are often asked to pay for to help their children. Stuff like cranial sacral therapy (a kind of homeopathic head massage), funky oils, auditory integrated training or various supplements.

    What is worth it to you?

    The work that can actually be indexed in http://www.pubmed.gov—- or the ravings of a guy who will sell you his special cream? (and he also cures lots of other ailments too!) Okay, that last bit was sarcastic.

15. 
    Kev
    July 8th, 2005
    06:55:21

    I think William meant me HN ;o)

    You’re right it was sarcastic. It was meant to be. I’m also sure you would rather give the cream a try than listen to Doctors. I don’t pretend to understand why you feel that way, but I have no doubt that you feel it.

16. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 15th, 2005
    07:25:13

    HN, According to your post, In my humble opinion you feel that my time and money would be better spent on getting my child good neurodevelopmental therapy from a licensed speech/language pathologist (SLP, see http://www.asha.org ) and/or an occupational/physical therapist (OT/PT, see http://www.aota.org ) . Well my son has been receiving aggresive ABA therapy including speech, occupational, and phyiscal theapy for the last 2 years, and with very little improvement. He has been following a “DAN Doctor” protocol for the last 18 months with very little improvement. He has been on the gfcf diet for about 2 years and very little improvement. He has been on TD-DMPS for 2 weeks now and he is coming alive. Is he talking, writing, or doing multiplication? No, but he is constantly babling new sounds. He is for the first time ever recognizing our facial expressions. If we smiled at him over the past 2 years or tried to get him to laugh with a silly face or a quirky body movement in conjuction with a funny sound he would almost never react and if he did he would yell “Dah” in a very irrated way.

    Since Td-DMPS started 2 weeks ago not only does he react to what I just previously described but his eye contact is so good I can do it from across the room and get a smile or a hardy laugh out of him. He recently started to show emotion if I raise my voice, and from out of nowhere he will just sit down next to his 7 year old sister and put his hands on the sides of her face and gently kiss her. Well … the simple fact is that it is not from out of nowhere … it is from the TD-DMPS!

    Then you wrote:

    “Do you have any scientific evidence that the “Buttar Cream” actually does anything, much less is actually absormed into the skin? That question could also be applied to other worthless things that parents are often asked to pay for to help their children. Stuff like cranial sacral therapy (a kind of homeopathic head massage), funky oils, auditory integrated training or various supplements.”
    “What is worth it to you?”

    What is worth to Me??? I can’t put a price tag on it! Can you?

    In my opinon, all your doing with all that therapy that you suggest … is putting a bandaid on your child’s real problem, which is most likely “Heavy Metal Toxicity”! The therapists had my son screaming at the top of his lungs nearly everday saying “touch door”, and he would then touch the door and they would praise him, and then they would say “touch door” and then he would touch the door and then they would praise him, and then they would say “touch door” and then he would have a big melt down. In my opinion, that is a normal response to being asked to do the same thing over and over again after you have gotten it right, not to mention that “touch door” is not exactly useful in everyday life situations, say like understanding facial expressions as I previously mentioned.

    In my opinon, by attacking this problem with just therapy, and supplements and not by chelation to remove the Mercury and the other heavy metals is giving your child nothing more than a bandaid ...you have left your child in a lonely austic world that keeps him isolated from his family and loved ones.

    What do you and the other Dr. Buttar bashers here have to contibute to this problem besides trying to tear down something you know very little about first hand? Have you ever met Dr. Buttar or heard him speak? Kevin Leitch or whoever was the author of “A Letter to Dr. Rashid Buttar Chelationist” certainly hasn’t or just choses to take Dr. Buttar out of context. The original author to the Buttar hit piece said that Dr. Buttar said the following:

    “Our success has been all under the age of nine, nine or under. Now since then, when I presented to Congress I told them that I didn’t think this would be effective for older children because the older children would use it, I didn’t see — they got better, they started talking, but they’re not in my book considered normal. They can read, but they’ll never do much more than flip hamburgers for a living, that type of thing”.

    That was taken out of context and if you go to the link below you can see for yourself.

    http://www.autismmedia.org/media/buttar5.wmv

    If you go to the link above you will see that the very next thing that Dr. Buttar says is ” But now I am finding that actually we have a couple kids, we have 3 kids over the age of a 11 and they are all having very rapid response”. You lied, you took him out of context, you lose all creditability and others here consistently link or quote government agencies or link to government agencies or you qoute AMA or link to those mainstream medical sites and quackery whatevers! Those are the, in my opinion, the true Quacks! The Quacks that deny the obvious while an entire generation of our greatest minds waist away do to “Heavy Metal Toxicity” and not Autism because according to me and Dr. Buttar their is no such thing as Autism, it is a very simple problem and it is “Heavy Metal Toxicity” or the body’s inability to detoxify. Why should I trust any mainstream medical organization like AMA or JAMA or government agencies like the CDC or the NIH?

    In my opinon, if all those government or private organizations you constantly qoute or link to, were bought and paid for along time ago, and if they instead protected our children from this pharmaceutcal lobbied/government induced hell that 1 out of 166 of our brightest minds have been afflicted with, we would not be typing here but, we would be spending time with our future, and the future is in the minds of these extremely bright children that can not detoxify or eliminate the most toxic substance know to man, and that is Mercury.

    Do you see the comparison in the the link below between Mercury poisoning and and what we call “autism”?

    http://www.momsagainstmercury.org/psa.htm

    If you don’t see it now…. you probably never will l!!

    Sincerely, Kevin Champagne
    Syracuse, NY.

17. 
    Kev
    July 15th, 2005
    08:15:38

    Kevin – you’ve misunderstood my reference to Buttars ‘hamburger flippers’. Go back and read it again.

    If you want to treat your child with chelaton therapy thats entirely your choice. Don’t think though that just because you use it, that that means it works. It doesn’t. Buttar is a quack unable to pass muster on even the most basic science. His TD DPMS has never even been tested for safety under scientific conditions. How do you know what the long term side effects are? Chelation has been linked to organ failure and death before.

    By blindly accepting the words of a quack you are putting your child in potential danger. Would you rather have an autistic child or a dead child?

18. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 15th, 2005
    14:13:02

    HN - Your the quack! You say that chelation has been linked to organ failure and death before? What about Mercury and heavy metals being linked to cancer and heart failure? If we leave the Mercury in, it is definitely going to have long term damage.

    His TD-TMPS has never been tested for safety under scientific conditions? Was Thimerasol, was dental Amalgam?

    Mercury is one of the most toxic elements on earth. It is linked to many of the most degenerative and horrible diseases known to man. It is unfortunate that these diseases are virtually all iatrogenic – diseases caused by inappropriate medical / dental treatment.

    Mercury is one of the deadliest toxins known to man. Its toxicity may well prove to be the most invasive and widespread disease in the history of mankind. Mercury poisoning causes many common medical and mental problems.

    Should we leave the toxic Mercury in and wait for 10 years of “scientific conditions” to tell me what I know now, and that is to get rid of the Mercury, get it out of the body and by the safest means possible, and that is through TD-DMPS.

    I am not blindly excepting the words of a “quack” as you put it.

    Your the Quack!

19. 
    Kev
    July 15th, 2005
    14:38:11

    Can you read Kevin? I made that reply – not HN.

    If Mercury will ‘definitely’ cause long term damage then why hasn’t everyone in the last 60 years had cancer and heart failure? Come on man – engage your brain a little.

    “I am not blindly excepting the words of a “quack” as you put it.”

    Yeah, you are. If you treat someone with something thats never once been tested in any rigorous scientific way then you are blindly accepting whatever happens to you as a result.

20. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 15th, 2005
    15:28:13

    Kev- I can read. I missed that it was your reply and not HN.

    CAUSES OF DEATH, USA, 2002 FORMAL NAME INFORMAL NAME % ALL DEATHS
    (1) Diseases of the heart heart attack (mainly) 28.5%
    (2) Malignant neoplasms cancer 22.8%
    (3) Cerebrovascular disease stroke 6.7%
    (4) Chronic lower respiratory disease emphysema, chronic bronchitis 5.1%
    (5) Unintentional injuries accidents 4.4%
    (6) Diabetes mellitus diabetes 3.0%
    (7) Influenza and pneumonia flu & pneumonia 2.7%
    (8) Alzheimer’s Disease Alzheimer’s senility 2.4%
    (9) Nephritis and Nephrosis kidney disease 1.7%
    (10) Septicemia systemic infection 1.4%
    (11) Intentional self-harm suicide 1.3%
    (12) Chronic Liver/Cirrhosis liver disease 1.1%
    (13) Essential Hypertension high blood pressure 0.8%
    (14) Assault homicide 0.7%
    (15) All other causes other 17.4%

    [Source: National Vital Statistics Report, Volume 53, Number 5 (October 2004)

    Nearly 60 percent died from cancer and heart attacks in 2002 and nearly 24 percent died from suicide, homocide, or accidents. or other causes. I have to assume that 60 percent of the people that died due to sucicide, accidents, and homicide would have died from heart failure or cancer.

    So you asked ” If Mercury will ‘definitely’ cause long term damage then why hasn’t everyone in the last 60 years had cancer and heart failure? Come on man – engage your brain a little”.

    Come on man, don’t you think that nearly everyone has died from cancer or heart failure?

21. 
    Kev
    July 15th, 2005
    15:38:49

    Whats your personal definition of the word ‘defiitely’? As in:

    ” If we leave the Mercury in, it is definitely going to have long term damage.”

    Your definition of ‘definitely’ seems more like ‘maybe’ to me. If you’d shown 100% for heart attack and cancer then I’d be happy to use words like ‘definitely’. I’ll ask you again – engage your brain a little.

22. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 15th, 2005
    16:21:24

    Mercury can be linked to most of the other causes of death on that list from 2002.

    Is it 100percent?

    Definitely not!

    But I bet it’s close.

    CAUSES OF DEATH, USA, 2002 FORMAL NAME INFORMAL NAME % ALL DEATHS
    (1) Diseases of the heart heart attack (mainly) 28.5%
    (2) Malignant neoplasms cancer 22.8%
    (3) Cerebrovascular disease stroke 6.7%
    (4) Chronic lower respiratory disease emphysema, chronic bronchitis 5.1%
    (5) Unintentional injuries accidents 4.4%
    (6) Diabetes mellitus diabetes 3.0%
    (7) Influenza and pneumonia flu & pneumonia 2.7%
    (8) Alzheimer’s Disease Alzheimer’s senility 2.4%
    (9) Nephritis and Nephrosis kidney disease 1.7%
    (10) Septicemia systemic infection 1.4%
    (11) Intentional self-harm suicide 1.3%
    (12) Chronic Liver/Cirrhosis liver disease 1.1%
    (13) Essential Hypertension high blood pressure 0.8%
    (14) Assault homicide 0.7%
    (15) All other causes other 17.4%

    [Source: National Vital Statistics Report, Volume 53, Number 5 (October 2

23. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 15th, 2005
    20:20:38

    This shows the relationship between mercury and diabetes. That takes care of number 6 on the list of death causes from 2002 and I am definitely 3 percent closer to 100 percent.

    Mercury is a known endocrine disruptor, and a new field of medicine is beginning to form and look at the effects of low dose mercury exposure on the endocrine system. With the tremendous increase in diabetes, being called an epidemic, and the increase in exposure to mercury, it seems that mercury could also be implicated as a cause of diabetes and some MD’s are aware of the actions of mercury on the insulin in our bodies and on the insulin receptor sites. Mercury has an affinity for sulphur bonds, which are present in all molecules of insulin and in the receptor site cells. Mercury renders insulin ineffective.

24. 
    HN
    July 15th, 2005
    21:06:55

    “Your a quack”? Since this was said multiple times it cannot be a simple typo. Your expressive communication skills seem to be on par with your understanding of basic science and medicine (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi.....592400876/ ).

    Please tell us exactly what scientific rigor the TD-DMPS has gone through to show it is effective. Anecdotes do not count. References to http://www.pubmed.gov would be appropriate.

    How do you know that it was not the real therapy working with the normal development of your child? With my son it was also a LONG hard road. At times there seemed to be now progress, and then spurts of speech. Without anything other than good neurodevelopmental therapy and a good educational placement.

25. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 15th, 2005
    21:25:46

    Whatever! Quack! Quack! Quack!

    We stopped therapy 2 weeks ago when we started TD-DMPS that is how I know that it is not “the real therapy working”. We plan on starting therapy again in the fall after a few months of chelation.

    It sounds like your son is doing well with therapy and good educational placement but what are you doing about the mercury?

    Oh and I am sorry about my communication skills, I didn’t know that this was going to be graded!

    You’re a Quack!

    Is that better!

26. 
    Kev
    July 16th, 2005
    00:05:20

    So let me sum up Kevin. In order to bolster your argument that mercury causes autism you are arguing that mercury is responsible for over 60% of all deaths since the introduction of mercury in vaccines?

    If so, then I have a rather nice bridge you might be interested in buying…

27. 
    Anne
    July 16th, 2005
    04:00:39

    Hello, Kevin Champagne, I am glad to hear that your child is happy and engaged. Maybe it’s the TD-DMPS, or maybe he’s just really relieved to be out of that maddening ABA program that he was in for two years, screaming almost every day, until you started the DMPS cream. If I were in his shoes, I’d take the Buttar Cream over several hours of weekly torture any time.

28. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 16th, 2005
    04:19:52

    Thank you, Anne!
    Not only is he happy and engaged since ending ABA and starting TD-DMPS, my son had a solid stool today for the first time in at least a year. I know, that’s more than you needed to know. Too much information! I think that may be due to us cutting back on all the supplements that we have been giving him for years, or it’s because the chelation is starting to put the fires out, or something else. I can’t wait for his next movement to see if this was just a fluke.

    Kevin Champagne

29. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 16th, 2005
    06:02:05

    No Kev, Let me sum it up.

    You’re a sarcastic Shithead

    How are my communication skills now HN?

    You told me in a recent reply to go back and read it again? No, you’re the one that needs to go back and read it again!

    I think you could use some form of chelation yourself!

    I ask again. Have you ever met Dr.Buttar or heard him speak? What do you really know about him? I think you should go see him speak at a conference and try to debate him.

    The global autism rights movement? Are you kidding me?

30. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 16th, 2005
    06:15:26

    The global autism rights movement?

    Now I see where you’re coming from.

    You’re not looking for a cure for autism because you’ve invested so much time in acceptance and rights for those on the spectrum.

    There is a better way, but you can’t see it because you have your head buried in “www.pubmed.gov” and “basic science”.

    The answer is’nt there!

31. 
    Kev
    July 16th, 2005
    07:03:28

    So you don’t believe autistics have rights Kevin? Interesting.

    By the way – I totally agee with you on ABA. There’s no way Megan would have that.

    I’m not looking for a cure because I don’t believe autism requires one. It certainly doesn’t require a bunch of quacks trying to make money from it.

    I did actually email this to ‘Dr’ Buttar. Strangely, he’s yet to reply. I have had some interesting feedback from the College he claims to be a visiting lecturer at though. I’ll post that at some point.

    Oh and by the way – keep a civil tongue in your head and act like a grown up when your on my site. More abusive langauge gets you a ban.

32. 
    Kevin Champagne
    July 16th, 2005
    07:36:21

    I talked to Dr. Buttar last week at an autism conference in Mount Laurel, New Jersey and he told me that he had over 500 emails that he had yet to answer from doctors. I think he said that he has only enough time to answer about 8 a day and that if he didn’t recognize the sender he just deletes it, so there is a good chance yours got deleted or he saw the tone of your email and considered this debate a waste of his time, as I am starting to see.

    I would like to see the interesting feedback that you claim to have received from the college.

33. 
    Kev
    July 16th, 2005
    08:28:32

    Well, next time you see him be sure to let him know this thread exists. I’m sure he’ll be keen to prove the effectiveness and safety of his treatment.

    The feedback?

    I forwarded your email to faculty members at both UNC and NCSU. I do not know of this person but hopefully someone else will.

    Lesley H. Hubbard
    Biomedical Engineering Program Assistant

    That was on the 27th June. So far no other faculty members have indicated they know Buttar at all.

34. 
    Kev
    July 16th, 2005
    12:32:50

    Kevin: thought you might be interested in this.

35. 
    Anne
    July 16th, 2005
    19:04:56

    Kevin C, the “global autism rights movement” is where I am coming from, too.

    I believe in acceptance and rights. I’m also not looking for a cure for my son. I feel lucky to have him. I feel no need to deny his autism or get rid of it. I do not think the world would be a better place without autistic people in it. I do not believe that autistic people are inferior to others. I believe their ideas about how they would like to be treated should be heard and acted on.

    It comes down to how people want to live their lives. I don’t understand why you are so angry at those who are working to improve things for autistic people. When your child gets older, as mine is, and if he remains autistic, as mine does, wouldn’t you want acceptance and rights for him, and the possibility of living a satisfying life? When he grows up, wouldn’t you want others to recognize him as equal to them and to take his opinions seriously? Wouldn’t you want employers to be willing to hire him? Wouldn’t you want his friends to understand his different social needs? Do you really think it’s wise to bet the farm on a cure, and not prepare for the reality of your child living as an autistic person?

    For every autism treatment you will find people who swear by it, saying they have seen children recover. As adamant as you are about chelation, there are others equally adamant about ABA, or homeopathy, or supplements, or special diets, or anything else that’s out there. You will always find somebody who will say, why can’t you just open your eyes, my child has been cured! He talks! He’s happy! He just has some social issues, that’s all! Kevin C, I believe that these kids are probably still autistic, and that they are just as precious, and deserve the same acceptance and rights, as everyone.

36. 
    Carole Andersen
    July 18th, 2005
    01:34:19

    Kevin,

    Why are you so angry??? If you are not looking for a cure for your autistic child, that is your decision. Why are you so passionately critical of parents of autistic children who are looking for a cure or at least an improvement in their child’s condition and the doctors, both alternative and mainstream medicine, who are helping that happen??????

    Autistic/mercury/metal poisoned children are in pain. They need help. In my opinion, it is cruel to not at least try to help them.

    Mainstream medicine has no treatment for autism. So parents wanting to help their children have to go the alternative route. They also have to find a medical doctor
    willing to work with them. Ideally, mainstream medicine and alternative medicine should work together. Unfortunately, that doesn’t happen often.

    In an article that you link to, it says that taxpayers are footing the medical bill for quack autism cures (in bottom line words). Not so!! Most insurance does not cover alternative treatments and welfare/medicare doesn’t either. The parents are footing the bills themselves in most cases.

    As far as those “quacks” are concerned, I know that without them, my grandson would not be well on his way to being cured. AND THAT IS PROOF ENOUGH FOR ME!

    No amount of “science” or “medical research” will ever convince me that my grandson’s parents were wrong in pursuing a cure against the mainstream medical advice of “just accept your son’s condition”.

    Likewise, my heart goes out to your child and every mercury poisoned child whose parents chose to FOLLOW that same advice.

    I am so sad for you, Kevin, and for your child.

    God Bless,
    Carole Andersen

37. 
    Carole Andersen
    July 18th, 2005
    02:05:37

    HN,

    Apparently you are missing the fact that many prescription medicines are being and have been pulled from the shelves AFTER FDA approval because they are/were causing deaths.

    Was testing done on these drugs? Were testing results tampered with or just ignored? Testing does not guarantee safety. In fact, it would be difficult if not impossible to find an approved drug that has no side effects. Prescription drugs have side affects, many of them serious and some deadly.

    Why are they approved? Follow the money. Closely.

    My heart also goes out to you and your child.

    God bless,
    Carole Andersen

38. 
    HN
    July 18th, 2005
    04:36:48

    The point is that most medications have actually been tested for effectiveness. Unfortunately sometimes things go wrong… like the interaction of the antihistamine Seldane with antibiotics. BUT… Seldane was an effective antihistamine,it was shown to be before put on the market (it worked for me). After a serious interactions was found, it was taken off the market.

    Now this page of comments is about the effectiveness of Rashid Buttar’s TD-DMPS cream. Where is it been independently replicated and documented that this cream:

    1) Is actually absorbed into the skin?

    2) Actually chelates mercury or any heavy metal?

    3) Has caused accelerated neurodevelopmental progress in children?

    Unfortunately statements made in Congress cannot be accepted as evidence. Papers that are published in journals that are index in http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/en.....?DB=pubmed are acceptable (not letters or editorials). This index system manages to filter most of the self-published papers, but it still contains some scientifically questionable journals (there are a few dedicated to homeopathy).

    Also, if you go to the above website and put in the drug name that you are interested in you will find what studies and testing have been done. So that should answer your question “Was testing done on these drugs? Were testing results tampered with or just ignored?”. For instance, I put in the word “seldane” and got over 2000 hits (papers, reviews, letters, editorials). So if you ANY question on a medication that one place to start.

    Though for MORE useful information on medications it is easier and quicker to use http://www.medlineplus.gov . That will give a set of choices that include extended topics including “Drug Information”. I used this when my son was prescribed atenolol for his hypertrophic cardiomyopathy:
    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medline.....84031.html … you will see that it mentions which side affects can be serious (oops, I just remembered, I have to pick up his refill at the pharmacy). By the way “atenolol” gives over 5500 hits on the Library of Medicine index search.

39. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 18th, 2005
    04:42:41

    Bravo Carole Andersen

    Hey Kev, do you have a Bill of Rights for The Autism Movement?

    I think that the first ammendment in your Bill of Rights should be, freedom of speech!

    Now that’s sarcasm!

40. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 18th, 2005
    05:16:10

    Kevin Leitch, did you really think that I would be interested in that link you sent me to the autism diva and the bias hit piece that someone else did on Dr. Buttar?

    I’m not opposed to rights for kids with autism, in fact I think one of thier first rights should be, the right to have a mommy and daddy that will go to the end of the earth to find a treatment that will give them a typical life!

    You are extemely vain when you wonder why Dr. Buttar doesn’t answer your offensive letter and then you tell me to make sure that I tell Dr. Buttar that this thread exsists the next time I talk to him?

    Yea, ok. That’ll be right at the top of my list of concerns the next time I get to talk to the doctor that is treating my son for his serious medical problem.

    Well Kev, the next time you talk to the Queen of England, can you ask her to answer my email?

    If Dr. Rashid Buttar is such a quack and if he’s ripping people off with his TD-DMPS or as you call it “Buttar Cream”, then where are they? I have searched and searched and I don’t find anyone!

    What planet are you living on?

41. 
    Kev
    July 18th, 2005
    07:13:14

    Carole,

    Parents of autistics are prime candidates for every snake oil salesman that comes along because they feel that a cure is the only thing that can ‘help’ their child. Buttar exploits this natural tendency to want to help but that all he does – exploit. If his cream could pass muster then I’d gladly apologise to him but the fact is that he’s obviously afraid to submit it for scientific review because he knows it’l fail.

    If your grandson was in pain you should know that pain is not a symptom of nor indicator of autism. The diagnostic criteria is readily available on several sites – pain forms no part of it. My daughter isn’t and never has been in pain leading from being autistic. Likewise saying that pain is caused by autism is equally false.

    So, my daughter is autistic. She always will be and there’s nothing I’d wish to change about that fact. There are however, a few areas that require intervention such as communication etc but intervening here doesn’t alter the fact of her autistic nature. As such what is there to cure? A stim? A need to sing loudly? Forgive me if I don’t se this as a priority.

    If I were you Carole I’d be giving serious thought to the legitimacy of your grandson’s diagnosis. The symptoms of mercury poisoning and autism are nothing alike. Yuor granson sounds misdiagnosed to me.

    There is, unfortunately, a financial burden on this whole issue. Single issue extremists like SafeMinds and Generation Rescue are trying to:

    “It’s all part of the political plan of the autism-mercury cabal – have autism declared, by an Act of Congress, to be caused by mercury. It isn’t science, but it might just work.”

    And when/if that happens research money into proper, legitimate areas will dry up and disappear – thats what makes me angry. It should make you angry to but I suspect it’ll make you happy instead.

42. 
    Kev
    July 18th, 2005
    07:25:59

    “Kevin Leitch, did you really think that I would be interested in that link you sent me to the autism diva and the bias hit piece that someone else did on Dr. Buttar?”

    No, but I like to get confirmation you only see what you want to see. Thanks.

    “I’m not opposed to rights for kids with autism, in fact I think one of thier first rights should be, the right to have a mommy and daddy that will go to the end of the earth to find a treatment that will give them a typical life!”

    Really? What about autistic adults – you know, what autistic children grow up to become? Do they have any rights in your world? I strongly suggest you talk to a few adult autistics and read a few things they’ve written before you make carpet generalisations about autistics. You could try:

    http://www.autistics.org
    http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com

    Read some of the papers written by autistics or (gasp!) talk to some of them. You might even get the mind of yours to open up to the possibility that autism is not the hellish existence you seem to think it is.

    “You are extemely vain when you wonder why Dr. Buttar doesn’t answer your offensive letter and then you tell me to make sure that I tell Dr. Buttar that this thread exsists the next time I talk to him?”

    Well, I’ve tried mailing the geezer – he hasn’t answered (I wonder why) so I though – never miss an opportunity. You obviously know him quite well.

    “Hey Kev, do you have a Bill of Rights for The Autism Movement? I think that the first ammendment in your Bill of Rights should be, freedom of speech! Now that’s sarcasm!”

    It is? Maybe you can explain it to me as I don’t know what you’re talking about.

    “If Dr. Rashid Buttar is such a quack and if he’s ripping people off with his TD-DMPS or as you call it “Buttar Cream”, then where are they? I have searched and searched and I don’t find anyone!”

    I have no idea. Whats your point?

43. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 18th, 2005
    08:14:48

    Kev, your response to Carol was very, very weak and so is your search for what’s really ailing your daughter! You don’t know Buttar and your claims of a snake oil saleman have absolutley no basis whatsoever!

    This is about Dr.Buttar right?

    Where are all the people that have been robbed by Dr. Buttar?

    When you talk about financial burden, you are so far off in left field that it’s truely sad!

    You seem to see Autism as a big troubling financial issue. When I go back and read previous posts from you, you seem to bring up cost a lot. I don’t put a price tag on it and I think it’s sad that you do.

    The finacial burden of austitic children that can be cured now, doesn’t even pale in comparison to the financial burden that the children of irresponsible parents that are seeking acceptance, instead of cure, will inflict on future generations of working families that will pay for autistic adults job programs and subsidies.

    Where are all the people that have been robbed by Dr. Buttar?

    Where are they?

    Come on Kev, come up with some off the wall comment or sarcasm, because you can’t come up with legitamate people that have been ripped of by Dr. Buttar.

    Send me a link to a legitamate site that is full of people that were robbed by Dr. Buttar.

    Key word here is legitimate!

44. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 18th, 2005
    08:21:19

    Whats my point?

    I think the point of this “thread” as you call it is to expose Dr. Buttar for this snake oil salesman that is getting rich off autism but really is’nt curing anyone or anything. So my point is, if that’s true, find the people that have been ripped off to help reinforce your argument That’s my point!

    What is yours??????????

45. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 18th, 2005
    08:56:37

    My Point:

    Since Dr. Buttar has now prescribed TD-DMPS over 50,000 times, there must be hundreds of people that are suing him and claiming they have been riped off, right?

    My point is, that if he’s such a snake oil salesman and that this TD-DMPS doesn’t work than there would have to be hundreds of blogs or threads or whatevers calling for his head on a platter.

    Where are they?

46. 
    Kev
    July 18th, 2005
    09:53:45

    Kevin: You are verging off into being uncivil again. I’ll remind you once more – my place, my rules. Play nice or get banned.

    Your point about no-one complaining about Buttar is bizarre. I’ve never claimed anyone who uses his cream has complained about him. What I’m claiming is that his ‘cure’ doesn’t work. If either he or you can prove it does then be my guest. You’re constructing a strawman argument.

    “your response to Carol was very, very weak and so is your search for what’s really ailing your daughter! You don’t know Buttar and your claims of a snake oil saleman have absolutley no basis whatsoever!”

    Well firstly I’m not searching for whatevers ailing my daughter as there’s nothing ailing her at the moment. She has a bit of a cold a week or two ago but she’s not ill.

    I’ll gladly concede I don’t know Buttar – so what? Are you sugessting that because I don’t know him I can’t criticise him? My claims that he’s a snake oil salesman are entirely legitimate. Your continued insistence that they’re not prove nothing. If you think I’m wrong then refute my points.

    “You seem to see Autism as a big troubling financial issue. When I go back and read previous posts from you, you seem to bring up cost a lot. I don’t put a price tag on it and I think it’s sad that you do.”

    I have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about. Please show me where I refer to autism as a financial burden.

    “The finacial burden of austitic children that can be cured now, doesn’t even pale in comparison to the financial burden that the children of irresponsible parents that are seeking acceptance, instead of cure, will inflict on future generations of working families that will pay for autistic adults job programs and subsidies.”

    Ahhh, I see. Did you know that arguments just like yours were used to excuse and prolong treatments to ‘cure’ homosexuality once upon a time? I also find it amusing how you tell me how sad it is that I’ve apparently made a financial issue out of autism and then you go on to tell me how irresponsible I am for not realising the financial impact of not ‘curing’ my daughter. Come on Kevin, get your story straight.

47. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 18th, 2005
    18:06:27

    Keiv Leitch wrote, “I’ll remind you once more – my place, my rules. Play nice or get banned”.

    I’m banning myself. This was a complete waste of my time.

    Your dead wrong about Dr. Buttar and the children of the parents that listen to you are the ones that are really being banned! Banned from a typical life that is available through what you label as quackery.

    They will not benefit from mommys with hairy armpits and daddys with ponytails that like to get all wrapped up in movements.

    Pray For Peace!

48. 
    Kev
    July 18th, 2005
    18:40:29

    Banned from a typical life! Oh no!!

    Spare me your emotional crap. Your kids Kevin are destined to grow up. Still autistic and getting the message from you that who they are is bad. They will not benefit from Daddy’s who have nothing substantive betwen their ears.

    They will grow up into the type of adult that you mock as getting ‘wrapped up in movements’. I wonder what you’ll think of them when they do? I’d urge you once more Kevin – go talk to some adult autistics and see what they think. And then remember that all children grow up.

49. 
    brian romdalvik
    July 18th, 2005
    20:43:35

    Regarding ripped off by Dr Buttar, price tag, etc.

    Dear Kevin Champagne,

    If your son is getting better god bless you. I have been ripped off by Dr Buttar. My ex wife doesn’t think so but then all the other miracle cures are why I am divorced now and see my son who I love dearly regardless of his problems once every two weeks. I have been through the gluten free diets, the supplements, the chelation, the hair tests, the stool tests and money would not have been an object if there were any left.

    Dr Buttar believed in this alternative medicine back in 1997 just when he opened his new practice and bought his big horse farm. Lo and behold his son born soon after is autistic by his own testimony. Miraculously cured by him with buttar cream and now plays chess at college level.

    Kev, it is snake oil and you are hurting a lot of people. My ex lives with her step brother who is fitting the bill. My ex is at another doctor today trying to re up on the buttar cream and hopes to see Buttar himself one day.

    My ex is the kind that gets addicted to the home shopping network.

    There is nothing I would love better for you, Buttar, or my ex to prove me wrong. Frankly I think the guy is a total fraud and sadly enough there are thousands like him out there.

    Good luck and I am sincerely happy for whatever success you are having.

    By the way Erik has been on the tmps or whatever the drops are, for months. Before that he took oral chelation and it is going on two years. I can only pray no damage has been done to his digestive system.

    Brian

50. 
    Carole Andersen
    July 18th, 2005
    23:03:48

    Kevin Leitch,

    It is a cop out to say that my grandson’s diagnosis was incorrect. Instead of facing the fact that autism/mercury poisoning can be cured or at least helped, the “acceptors” just say that the child never had autism in the first place.
    In my grandson’s case, there is proof. My daughter, Tami, took movies of Gavin documenting his condition and improvement over the years. Gavin will be 7 next month.

    The symptoms of mercury poisoning and autism are the same. Look them up for yourself. Gavin was diagnosed as autistic at 19 months and PDD-NOS, at the age of 2. He lost speech, stimmed, rocked, toe walked, had foul smelling diarrhea, extreme hearing sensitivities, skin rashes, and the list goes on. As you should know, these are the symptoms of most autistic children. So how can you say that autism is NOT
    PAINFUL??????

    You are not recognizing that autistic children stim, cry, meltdown, etc, because they ARE in pain!!
    Autistic children have a hard time in restaurants, stores, etc. mainly because of the noise factor. If someone were to blow a whistle in your ear, would you feel pain? (Have your child listen to classical music, preferably Mozart. It helps. Gavin no longer has to wear ear plugs.) When you have indigestion and/or diarrhea, does your tummy hurt?? When you are trying to convey something to someone and do not know how, would that frustrate you?? Frustration is a form of pain. If you still believe that your child is not in pain, then you are not putting yourself in your daughter’s shoes. The fact that your daughter stims tells me that she is hurting. Stimming helps her to cope with her pain.

    And I believe that you are in pain and this website/blog (I am not very computer literate.) is YOUR coping mechanism. I also think that if you tried to help heal your daughter’s pain, that you would help your own pain. Of course, that would entail getting rid of your closed mind and tunnel vision. Just think about it. What if one or a combination of these off the wall treatments were to help your daughter communicate, etc. better? Somewhere in the back of your mind at some point in your life it will come back to you and you will wonder what if it would have worked for her? I can’t believe that any parent if given the choice would choose autism over normalcy for their child. Search your soul. Is the only reason you are now choosing that because you have been brainwashed to believe everything that the medical community says is gospel. Did you happen to read that report about the 200,000 people a year that die because of misdiagnosis and incorrect drug doses mediated out by the mainstream medical community??? And you are totally trusting their recommendation as to how to treat your daughter’s autism-just accept it!! Wake up!! They do NOT have your family’s best interest at heart! So YOU have to!! Remember these words: What if it does help my daughter? They will come back to haunt you if you do nothing. But of course that is your right. Just as it is the right of other parents to aggressively seek a cure for their sons and daughters!

    As far as Dr. Buttar (yes, I have met him and I have heard him speak at the Autism One Conference) is concerned, I applaud him, along with all of the other pioneers of out of the mainstream medicine that are trying to help those that the medical community has abandoned. You see, for some of these kids, snake oil works! Let’s face it. Any treatment at all for autistic children is experimental at this point in time. It will take years, maybe decades, before mainstream medicine comes up with a treatment if they do at all. (They will if they see money in it. Snake oil legitimized!!)

    Parents that are chelating their child are also carefully monitoring that child via regular lab testing. In addition to treating and monitoring their child they have to contend with mainstream doctors, drug companies, FDA, NIH, CDC, and other governmental agencies because they are bucking the system. These parents are heroes because they are doing what mainstream medicine said could not be done. And they are doing it despite all of the flak and criticism that is being heaped upon them and the “quacks” that are helping them. I am so very proud of each and every one of them

    It doesn’t take a genius to understand that injecting mercury, a neurotoxin, into the bodies of our infants and children is not very smart. (However, it is profitable! Snake oil legitimized) Combining that neurotoxin with aluminum and formaldehyde in that same injection is worse. Why don’t you ask for the ingredient list of the vaccinations that your daughter has received and then tell me just who is practicing dangerous medicine??? Sidebar: Have you given a thought as to why adult onset diabetes is showing up in our children also at epidemic rates???? Hint: Follow the money.

    Don’t criticize those that are part of the solution unless you have a better one. Just accepting is not a solution.

    I just also have to say that it is incredible to me that there are parents out there that are aware that treatments exist that may cure or at least make their child’s life better and they choose to do nothing. Absolutely amazing!!

    Again, God bless your daughter.
    Carole Andersen
    California

51. 
    Kev
    July 19th, 2005
    02:35:27

    “The symptoms of mercury poisoning and autism are the same. Look them up for yourself. Gavin was diagnosed as autistic at 19 months and PDD-NOS, at the age of 2. He lost speech, stimmed, rocked, toe walked, had foul smelling diarrhea, extreme hearing sensitivities, skin rashes, and the list goes on. As you should know, these are the symptoms of most autistic children. So how can you say that autism is NOT
    PAINFUL??????”

    I have looked them up. They’re nothing alike. See here: http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=228

    Please explain to me how losing speech, stimming. rocking and toe walking are painful. The other things you list are not usual comorbidities of autism.

    “You are not recognizing that autistic children stim, cry, meltdown, etc, because they ARE in pain!!”

    Thats becuase they don’t. There are numerous reasons autistics stim. The usual one is because it encourages sensory integration. From the NAS website

    “These behaviours are necessary to the autistic person and usually harmless. Self-stimulation releases tension and regulates sensory input”.

    Carole, considering you’re the grandparnet of an autisitc you seem woefully ignorant and misinformed as to what autism is and how is affects people. You really need to do some proper research.

    “And I believe that you are in pain and this website/blog (I am not very computer literate.) is YOUR coping mechanism. I also think that if you tried to help heal your daughter’s pain, that you would help your own pain. Of course, that would entail getting rid of your closed mind and tunnel vision.”

    Well, thanks for the entirely unconvincing concern but neither my daughter nor I are in pain at all. Megan’s generally a very happy, confident little girl who’s just completing a very successful first year at school. She doesn’t stim because she’s in pain, she stims because she’s autistic.

    I recommend you read a few web sites and books written by autistic people as you have no real understanding of the nature of autism or what the autism rights movement is about. You might be surprised. Try some of Donna Williams books which you should be able to get at Amazon. Or head over to http://www.autistics.org/library and read some of the pieces in the Library.

    The need for stimming (and toe walking/corner-of-the-eye-looking) is sometimes down to a comorbidity called Synaesthesia.

    ” A synaesthete may, for example, hear colors, see sounds, and taste tactile sensations. Although this may happen in a person who has autism, it is by no means exclusive to autists.”

    Autistics also sometimes have Irlen Syndrome which could also result in some stim-like behaviours which – far from being painful – help the autistic adjust to these comorbidities.

    Skipping over the rest of your diatribe we come to this:

    “I just also have to say that it is incredible to me that there are parents out there that are aware that treatments exist that may cure or at least make their child’s life better and they choose to do nothing. Absolutely amazing!!”

    Again, you seem incapable of simple cognition. I intervene where my daughter has problems. I just don’t see autism as a problem. Where a comorbidity exists that requires intervention, we intervene: speech therapy for example.

52. 
    Carole Andersen
    July 19th, 2005
    07:48:09

    Dear Kevin,

    I just finished looking around your blogsite/website.

    Below, in your reply to me, you make the point that pain is not part of autism:

    “If your grandson was in pain you should know that pain is not a symptom of nor indicator of autism. The diagnostic criteria is readily available on several sites – pain forms no part of it. My daughter isn’t and never has been in pain leading from being autistic. Likewise saying that pain is caused by autism is equally false.”

    However, in your colophon, you say the following:

    “Because Megan’s ability to empathise is limited she is sometimes thought of as rude – or even deaf! When you’re ignored by an autistic it isn’t rudeness or (necessarily) deafness its because some autistics find social interaction terrifying and incomprehensible. Some autistics (including Megan) have pronounced difficulty with sensory input. For example, autistics with this issue say that certain sounds, colours, textures, tastes and smells are actually painful – their sensory equipment is wired badly in this respect, creating connections in the brain that don’t exist for the majority of people. Megan has particular difficulty with traffic – she is very scared by the noise and the speed. So much so that until the age of 5 we had to take her to school in a pushchair as she felt more secure. She also had a set of thick earmuffs to protect her from the worst of the noise. As she grows up she has become much more comfortable with traffic but it still unsettles her sometimes. She is also very particular about what she eats. Foods with a certain colour or texture are banished!”

    You use the following words to describe how autism affects your daughter: terrifying, incomprehensible, actually painful, and scared. You have contradicted yourself on the subject of pain and autism.

    Also in the colophon, you wrote:

    “A lot of parents of both autistic and non-autistic children find our opinion of autism puzzling. We do not desire a cure for Megan, even should one exist which it does not. Megan is autistic, she does not have autism. We therefore believe that to ‘cure’ Megan would be to remove the very thing that makes her who she is. I don’t believe there is a ‘hidden’ Megan underneath the autism – autism is pervasive, not the layer on a cake.”

    In the paragraph before the above, you wrote:

    “Megan’s biggest challenge so far was starting at a mainstream school. The school have been fantastic and Megan gets full time support from a pair of dedicated support assistants but its been a challenging last 12 months. However, we are now getting the pay-off – Megan is very happy at school, her confidence is high and she has started to significantly interact with her classmates – something we would have thought impossible 12 months ago.”

    It seems that you do delight in the positive progress of your daughter: “we are now getting the pay-off”. And I am sincerely happy for you and her. So it does not make sense that your wish for Megan is to remain as autistic as she is because if she got better, she would not be herself. This is a contradiction. I believe that your true desires for Megan are for her to get better. You just don’t know how to start. And that is okay. Email me off this site and I will give you my daughter’s email and she will be glad to help you-no charge.

    You believed it impossible for Megan to significantly interact with her classmates 12 months ago. Now she is doing that and you are happy about it. Just imagine, if you did some biomedical intervention, what she might be able to do in another 12 months? Maybe she’ll even start sleeping through the night. Gavin used to have night terrors also. Now he sleeps through the night.

    Sidebar: 1) By your writings, you appear to be an extremely bright man. I do not agree with most of the content of your writings, but you do write well. 2) When I wrote my first answer to you, I did not know that you lived in the UK. So the part about the taxpayers not footing the bill may not be correct in your country.

    God bless you and your family.
    Carole Andersen
    California

53. 
    Kev
    July 19th, 2005
    08:08:30

    Carole you’re still no getting it.

    Difficulties integrating sensory information is a comorbidity of autism. It isn’t autism in and of itself. As I’ve repeated time and time again, if there is an issue that is causing Megan trouble then we intervene in that situation. This is not in any way equal to curing autism or autism being painful. There are numerous situations in which an autistic may feel pain but that does not equate to autism being the cause of that pain. Lots of people who are not autistic have these same sensory issues. How would you propose to treat them?

    “You believed it impossible for Megan to significantly interact with her classmates 12 months ago. Now she is doing that and you are happy about it. Just imagine, if you did some biomedical intervention, what she might be able to do in another 12 months?”

    Or she might be dead. Or have severe kidney damage. These are known side effects of Chelation. What are the long term effects of Chelation? Nobody knows because the quacks don’t like their crap being tested. When my daughter is doing so well (or even if she wasn’t) why would I want to inflict something so little is known about on her?

54. 
    Carole Andersen
    July 19th, 2005
    10:04:53

    Kevin,

    You are the one that doesn’t get it.

    The drug companies and others (including you) would be shouting from the rooftops if a child had died or was severely injured because of chelation. Somebody’s head would be on a platter! I’ve not heard of one death or injury. Have you? Chelation has been safely used in the USA since 1940. Chelation is an approved treatment in mainstream medicine for lead poisoning, but not for mercury poisoning.
    You sound like a spokesperson for a drug company.

    Gavin has been on chelation treatments for 4 years and he is healthier than ever today. I just love it when he runs up to me and hugs and kisses me and says, “Grandma, I love you!”

    I am so very grateful that my daughter and son-in-law were dedicated from the very beginning to find a cure for Gavin. It has been a long hard journey and well worth the effort!!
    And Gavin is not the only recovering autistic child. There are lots of others.

    With your atitude, Megan will not be one of them and she and her grandmother will most likely miss out on that joy! Such a shame.

    God bless Megan and her family.
    Carole Andersen
    California

55. 
    Kev
    July 19th, 2005
    10:39:40

    “The drug companies and others (including you) would be shouting from the rooftops if a child had died or was severely injured because of chelation. Somebody’s head would be on a platter! I’ve not heard of one death or injury. Have you?”

    From the American Heart Association:

    “In fact, a number of deaths in the United States have been linked with chelation therapy. Also, some people are on dialysis because of kidney failure caused, at least in part, by chelation therapy.”

    You might also want to have a read through DMPS Backfire.

    So far Carole, you’ve shown that you are ignorant of even the most basic and widely known facts about autism. You have also displayed a prejudicial view of autism and autistics. You have also made judgements about me and my daughter that are untrue based on an interpretation founded in ignorance.

    You seem to have no knowledge of the concept of comorbidity and how it applies to autism and when its shown to you your response is to change the subject. By ignoring the reality of autism and by clinging onto outmoded and untrue beliefs about autism you in fact identify yourself as part of the problem. I have no doubt you love your grandchildren dearly but love is not enough. For their sake you are required to weigh the factual evidence closely. I think you need to take a long hard look at your family situation and re-examine your core beliefs regarding autism. In the long term your grandchildren will value your acceptance and love more than they will your need to make them ‘normal’.

    This post was written by an autistic woman who was considered once as low functioning as my daughter. it discusses her thoughts regarding cures and/or institutionalization. I hope you take the time to read it and absorb its message.

56. 
    Max J
    July 19th, 2005
    14:52:57

    Wow, is this a private feud or can anyone join in??

    No seriously it’s nice to see that everyone believes so passionately in what they are saying – but very confusing for those of us that are just starting the journey with a newly diagnosed child.

    But there are a couple of points that I would like to add having read the discussion with interest.

    There seems to be a bit of an obsession going on with the Pharmaceutical industry and what they do and don’t do (follow the money etc etc). Although I have worked in this industry for many years, I cannot of course speak for all areas of the segment, but I think there is a huge misconception about the industry’s attitude to safety in drugs. I have been involved with many product withdrawals on safety grounds and I have always been impressed with the responsible attitude of those involved. That said, of course occasionally drugs get through that shouldn’t (Seldane/terfenadine being cited as an example – actually though to set the record straight it interacts with more than just antibiotics; basically anything that is eliminated by the Cytochrome p450 pathway in the liver…) but it would be a very short sighted company that couldn’t see beyond potential short-term profits to the consequences of litigation and loss of reputation. So I wouldn’t get so hung up on conspiracy theories etc.

    On the other hand the fact that there is nothing in the Pubmed database on this form of chelation doesn’t really surprise me. To get there means that a publication has been through the peer-review process – perhaps seeing the strong comments from many on this site and others, and it has to be said especially from the medical community, it is no surprise that such a publication would be unlikely to get accepted.

    And anyway, if Dr Buttar is having a sufficient practice load, based on the very scant evidence available – then there really is little pressure on him to do more. Actually it is up to the scientific and medical communities to help us all here – the problem is who will pay – and that is why there is so little solid evidence. Because one of the sad realities of the pharmaceutical and medical communities is that nothing happens unless someone funds it. So my guess is that unless some governmental body takes it on itself to answer this question (NIH or similar) which is unlikely – we’re going to be having this debate for a very long time.

    And in that time, maybe, just maybe, children who could benefit will miss out. That’s the thought that keeps me awake at night. So debate is useful, but finding ways to answer this and other questions may be more so.

    Good luck to all of you,

    Max J

57. 
    Kev
    July 19th, 2005
    16:33:51

    You’re right Max – ‘discussions’ like this generate more heat than light. People like Carole believe that anyone who doesn’t believe as they do are bad parents. Whereas people like me – who started off exactly where Carole is now – like to rely on what we know can definitely help and definitely can’t hurt.

    All I can say to you is do as much research as possible. You don’t have to take anyones word for anything. Not mine and not Carole’s but don’t be too quick to use something that is so badly researched so little is known about.

58. 
    Carole Andersen
    July 20th, 2005
    02:36:43

    Kevin,

    You have totally misunderstood my position!

    Cure or Institutionalize
    At no point have I ever said nor do I believe that autistic children or any other special needs child has 2 choices – to be cured or institutionalized. I have a niece (my brother’s child) with cerebral palsy due to a botched birth. Heather is now 19 years old, can walk, talk (but difficult to understand her), is very loving and is mentally and intellectually 5 years old. She will never be able to live on her own and she will never be institutionalized. My nephew (my sister’s child), Steven, is now 8 years old and has Down’s Syndrome. He is a bit hyper, very loving, loves to wrestle with his brothers and is just starting to have understandable speech. He, most likely, will never be able to live on his own and he also will never be institutionalized.

    I do believe that a parent should do what it takes to enable their child to be the best that they can be so that, that child’s life is enhanced. That is the goal.

    Gavin’s parents set the goal of finding a cure for him. This took dedication, hours and hours of research on an almost daily basis that is still ongoing today, soul searching, deductive reasoning, courage, hard work, determination, faith, prayer and so much more. They have been working toward this goal for more than five years. NONE OF HIS TREATMENTS WERE DONE ON A WHIM. They were and still are being done responsibly. And Gavin’s life has changed dramatically from the age of 2 to the present age of 7 next month, FOR THE BETTER!

    My daughter, Tami, became a Type I – insulin dependent diabetic – at the age of 7 yrs. My daughter, Cindy, became a Type I diabetic at the age of 26. No, my family has no history of diabetes, either Type I or II. Neither does their father’s family. I have 3 children, all daughters, my other daughter has no health issues. She is the only one of my daughters that has not had the MMR immunization. Tami had the MMR shot as a child. Cindy had the MMR shot twice to fulfill college entrance requirements and became diabetic a few months later.

    My two daughters have diabetes and they are diabetics. Diabetes does not define who they are. Cerebral palsy does not define who Heather is and Steven is not defined by his Down’s Syndrome. I do not believe that they would not be who they are if they got rid of their label.
    If I could cure each and every one of them I would. I DO NOT LOVE THEM ANY LESS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT NORMAL, AND IF THEY WERE ALL ABLE TO BE CURED, I DO NOT KNOW HOW I COULD LOVE THEM ANY MORE THAN I DO ALREADY JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE CURED

    Your quote from the AHA referred to HEART PATIENTS undergoing intravenous EDTA chelation. There were 2 heart patients in the study that died and the study was discontinued. It never said that the 2 deaths were due to the chelation. Perhaps that is because they were not in good health due to heart conditions. The site did not refer to autistic children undergoing responsible chelation with
    NDF, NDF+, DMSA, DMPS or TD-DMPS.

    As far as the DMPS site is concerned, the patient’s real names were never revealed, and, with the exception of Timmy the 4 yr old that developed a skin rash that cleared up in 10 days and was possibly caused by the existing virus he had at the time that the DMPS was given to him (irresponsible chelating), all of the patients were adults blindly following the mainstream medical doctors that ultimately admitted that they did not have much knowledge about chelation. Again, irresponsible chelating. I find it interesting that you have neglected to balance the negative by presenting some positive views.

    It is not my intention to sway parents away from seeking help for their children. That is what you seem to be all about.
    It is not right for you to try to close down one avenue of help by attacking Dr. Buttar even though YOU have no personal experience that he is NOT helping children. Still, I have not heard of one autistic child that has died from chelation. Yet, I have seen several autistic children benefiting from it.

    You say my knowledge is lacking. I admit I don’t know everything. No one does, not even you. However, I’ve gone to the conferences. I’ve read books, etc. I belong to some autism groups that have websites where parents post on what is working and not working for their child. I am involved in supporting parents that are looking for a better life for their child. So don’t tell me I am ignorant about autism just because I believe that every child is entitled to be helped and you don’t agree. I look for solutions while you seem to prefer the status quo.

    God Bless Megan,
    Carole Andersen
    California

59. 
    Kev
    July 20th, 2005
    03:58:55

    Carole,

    You said:

    “I’ve not heard of one death or injury. Have you?”

    So I showed you evidence. If you want to move the goalposts after the fact thats up to you. The facts are that because no research has been done into Chelation as it applies to autism that we simply don’t know how it affects kids – which is my point. If you can demonstrate to me that its safe then be my guest. Until then its unproven.

    “You say my knowledge is lacking. I admit I don’t know everything. No one does, not even you. However, I’ve gone to the conferences. I’ve read books, etc. I belong to some autism groups that have websites where parents post on what is working and not working for their child. I am involved in supporting parents that are looking for a better life for their child. So don’t tell me I am ignorant about autism just because I believe that every child is entitled to be helped and you don’t agree. I look for solutions while you seem to prefer the status quo.”

    More strawmen. Where did I say children aren’t entitled to help? What I said was that autistics (not just children but adults too) are entitled to interventions that actually do help them where necessary – chelation doesn’t. Especially Buttars cream which can’t even be demonstrated to be absorbed .

    And Carole? You are ignorant. All these places you’ve done research and not once have you talked with autistics themselves. To you its all about kids and parents. I urge once more – talk to some autistic people, get their take on things.

    “It is not right for you to try to close down one avenue of help by attacking Dr. Buttar even though YOU have no personal experience that he is NOT helping children.”

    If I thought for one miute I could close down Buttar I’d be a happy man indeed. Unfortunately, the right to shill people seems enshrined in your constiution. To that end its entirely right that the facts regarding Buttar and his magic cream are exposed. Here’s an idea Carole – instead of telling me what I can or can’t say, how about you have a go at refuting the facts I’ve detailed regarding Buttar on here? If he’s been so hard done by it should be easy for you to find evidence that counteracts my points. Lets see how you do.

    “Gavin’s parents set the goal of finding a cure for him. This took dedication, hours and hours of research on an almost daily basis that is still ongoing today, soul searching, deductive reasoning, courage, hard work, determination, faith, prayer and so much more. They have been working toward this goal for more than five years.”

    You know I read that I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. You have the temerity to keep going on about how effective this crap is and then tell me you’ve been using it for 5 years?

    Let me offer you a suggestion – a bit less prayer and a bit more common sense.

60. 
    Carole Andersen
    July 20th, 2005
    09:03:34

    Kevin,

    I just noticed that you took my post to Max off. That post was giving him information where to seek help for his newly diagnosed child. How evil is that??

    Who the hell are you really??????

    Do you really have a child with autism????

    Carole Andersen

61. 
    Kev
    July 20th, 2005
    11:03:01

    I have no idea what you’re talking about Carole. I’ve checked my spam filter so unless you included lots of links (which triggers an automatic deletion) your comment should be here.

    Do I really have a child with autism? Are you for real? Out of touch you certainly are, ignorant about the nature of autism you also certainly are but I hadn’t got you pegged in the ‘raving paranoid conspiracy’ pile just yet.

    Let me guess – I’m really in the pay of ‘Big Pharma’ right? My daughter’s an invention and I’m Satan sent here to test you.

    Carole, I think you and I have said all we can say to each other. I’m not going to change your mind and you’ve offered nothing substantive that would lead me to change mine. But in closing, let me offer you a little challenge.

    What would it take to change your mind? What piece of evidence would be enough to make you realise that Thimerosal doesn’t cause autism and that TD-DMPS does nothing but make the skin slightly greasy? I’m really interested to know.

    In return I’ll tell you what would change my mind: scientific evidence. Thats all. One paper, peer reviewed, published and replicated. All Buttar has to do to become the richest man who ever lived is submit his cream to the rigour of one single scientific test. Think how much money he’d make and how many more thousands of autistic children he’d reach by doing that. Don’t you wonder why he won’t?

62. 
    Ulyyf
    July 21st, 2005
    11:16:47

    . And Gavin’s life has changed dramatically from the age of 2 to the present age of 7 next month, FOR THE BETTER!

    Five years ago, he was a toddler. Now he is no longer a toddler. All children change drastically between the ages of two and seven. Yes, that includes autistic children. The odds are that your grandson’s life has changed dramatically in those years because he grew older.

    My two daughters have diabetes and they are diabetics. Diabetes does not define who they are. Cerebral palsy does not define who Heather is and Steven is not defined by his Down’s Syndrome. I do not believe that they would not be who they are if they got rid of their label.
    If I could cure each and every one of them I would. I DO NOT LOVE THEM ANY LESS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT NORMAL, AND IF THEY WERE ALL ABLE TO BE CURED, I DO NOT KNOW HOW I COULD LOVE THEM ANY MORE THAN I DO ALREADY JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE CURED

    Diabetes is not a problem of neurology. Cerebral palsy does not affect how you think. Down’s syndrome is inextricably linked to retardation. None of this is true for autism. It is wrong of you to pretend that these are the same thing.

    Your quote from the AHA referred to HEART PATIENTS undergoing intravenous EDTA chelation. There were 2 heart patients in the study that died and the study was discontinued. It never said that the 2 deaths were due to the chelation. Perhaps that is because they were not in good health due to heart conditions. The site did not refer to autistic children undergoing responsible chelation with
    NDF, NDF+, DMSA, DMPS or TD-DMPS.

    Or perhaps it is because chelation is inherantly dangerous. You are picking at straws when you have to put so many ifs into a statement.

    It is not my intention to sway parents away from seeking help for their children. That is what you seem to be all about.

    This is, from what I’ve seen of this person’s writings, untrue and libellous. Just because he considers your form of “help” to be dangerous, and sees no evidence that it works, that is no reason to say he wants people not to help their children.

    It is not right for you to try to close down one avenue of help by attacking Dr. Buttar even though YOU have no personal experience that he is NOT helping children. Still, I have not heard of one autistic child that has died from chelation. Yet, I have seen several autistic children benefiting from it.

    No, you haven’t. You have seen autistic children grow older and mature. I know of autistic children who were more communicative, less prone to meltdowns, and the rest of it, at seven than at two as well – without chelation, ABA, or the rest of it. So all you know is that between two and seven, your grandson changed. You do not know the cause.

    So don’t tell me I am ignorant about autism just because I believe that every child is entitled to be helped and you don’t agree.

    Again, this is a libellious, and illogical statement. Please show the proof that he does not want children to be helped. Proof aside from “I do not like people spending money on dangerous and unproven ‘treatments’ which are no better than snake oil”, I mean.

63. 
    Brooke
    July 28th, 2005
    21:05:43

    I think that the evidence against mercury and immunizations needs to be addressed first and foremost. The initial authos (who attacked Dr. Buttar) apparently is driven by the need for science, so let him take a look at “peer-reviewed” scientific studies that show that Thimerosal in Immunizations has a definitive causal relationship to neurological disorders. Furthermore, let the initial author review the parent testimonials at http://www.generationrescue.org that irrefutably show immediate speech improvments that could not be attributed to anything other than a positive reaction to chelation and the protocol set out by Dr. Buttar and likeminded collegues. No matter what, parents of autistic children should follow their hearts and weigh out the plus’ and minus’ of trying chelation for their children. It is one of very few therapies that give hope to the hopeless.

64. 
    HN
    July 29th, 2005
    00:47:05

    Dear Brooke,

    Parent testimonies are anecdotes. Anecdotes are not data.

    Have you seen http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=226 ?

    Or http://www.neurodiversity.com/.....hange.html ?

65. 
    Brooke
    July 29th, 2005
    21:00:02

    Dear HN,

    I read both the links you provided. And to quote you “anecdotes are not data”...All I read were letters back and forth from people on both sides of the issue.

    I have done extensive research on mercury poisoning, thimerosal, and I know much more about autism than the average parent. I have also read transcripts of the Simpsonwood Conference which you can obtain a copy of for yourself online because of the Freedom of Information Act. In the transcripts of the Simpsonwood conference (which was hosted by the FDA and the CDC with a rep from the WHo and also from every manufacturer of immunizations) the participants discussed the “statistically significant” findings that Thimerosal laden vaccines greatly increased the likelyhood of manefestation of neurological disorders. This information was deemed damaging to the immunization program and the concensus was to white wash the evidence and count the children affected as casualties.

    Not until 1999 did Congress decide, under heavy pressure, to remove Thimerosal from MOST vaccines. Howver, they never recalled the innoculations that were already sitting on shelves across the country.

    While Generation Rescue was founded by parents, it is endorsed by very reputable scientists and by several congressmen. I don’t ever take anything i read on the internet at face value, that is stupid and irresponsible. I did, unlike you, take the time to actually read the 32 facts on Autism, the 25 Myths of Autism, and reviewed several of the 30 Scientific Studies cited to support the claims of the website before i recommended it to other parents or mentioned it on this blog.

    So, in answer to your question…..yes, I read the cited links.
    Do I agree with your apparent stance on the issue? NO.

    Chelation is a treatment that has come a long way. The oral and intravenous chelations caused alot of side effects due to the fact that the metals were being pulled out at an accelerated rate that the organs of a small child could not handle. The newer forms of Chelation, which are not thousands of dollars, are very safe if your child is monitored (which is true for any type fo treatment). The TD-DMPS treatment pulls metals out of the body in much the same way and time frames that a normal person would excrete them. Not dangerous at all as long as you replenish the good minerals being pulled out with the bad.

    I would be more than happy to have a conversation that revolved around facts and science rather than a who can outwit who in a battle of words. That doesn’t accomplish anything. The truth is that all any parent wants is to help their child. That emotion manifests itself in different way for every parent. Some think that truly loving their chil means accepting them the way they are and learning to live with their condition. Other parents, like me, see that their children have so much more to offer than the silence of autism. I cannot speak first hand yet of my childs recovery from Autism/Mercury poisoning, but in a year or so, I hope that will change. We are starting Chelation next week.

    I wish you luck and happiness in whatever life brings you. I encourage you to read as much as you can on both sides of the fence before making blanket statements like some of the comments I found in the other blogs you cited. Peoples opinions don’t hold much weight…...peer-reviewed scientific studies do.

    Thanks,

    Brooke
    “Warrior Mom in Texas”

66. 
    Kev
    July 29th, 2005
    22:08:17

    There are no credible peer reviewed studies that support the position that autism is caused by thimerosal. Nor are there any that support the position that Chelation cures autism.

    If you believe there are Brooke, please post links to them.

67. 
    Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY.
    July 30th, 2005
    06:11:49

    Excellent post Brooke

    Get that Mercury out!

68. 
    Kev
    July 30th, 2005
    07:43:30

    “Some think that truly loving their chil means accepting them the way they are and learning to live with their condition. Other parents, like me, see that their children have so much more to offer than the silence of autism.”

    I missed that bit.

    What an utterly vacuous and misleading argument. What on Earth makes you think that a) autism = silence and b) that if it did any parent would accept it.

    I’d also love to see the list of very reputable scientists that support GR’s position that autism is only merucry poisoning. If they do then they’re undeserving of the title ‘scientist’.

69. 
    HN
    July 30th, 2005
    09:14:39

    I would also like to state that autism is NOT the only reason for lack of speech or language. It may be one symptom of autism, BUT it is also the symptom of a myriad of other neurological conditions.

    Those conditions would include profound deafness, Rett Syndrome, cerebral palsy and the aftermath of stroke or seizure (which could be from a number of reasons, from genetics to disease, like HiB).

    The only reason I have gotten into this kind of discussion is because I do have a teenager with a speech/language disorder who is not autistic, but he has been in school with lots of autistic (or autistic like) classmates, and their parents populate the same support systems we use.

    He had a seizure disorder. Which means he could not be vaccinated against pertussis with the then used DPT… during a time our county was going through a pertussis epidemic (about the same time the USA experienced an upsurge in measles, which caused 120 deaths due to measles). We had to be very careful of who he had contact with…. and made sure we knew of the vaccination status of every playmate he came into contact with. His health during his first year was dependent on herd immunity.

70. 
    Syed Haider
    August 1st, 2005
    15:38:22

    My own child has the symptoms of a child with autism. How should I show my doctor this? What should I do after I do this?

71. 
    Kev
    August 1st, 2005
    15:52:08

    Syed, what country are you in? The proceedure in the UK is to take your child to your local Doctor who will then refer you to a specialist if he/she feels its appropriate.

72. 
    Brooke
    August 2nd, 2005
    19:57:42

    HN / KEV:

    Bottom line, there are plenty of unbiased peer reviewed studies out there. IF you don’t believe that, then you have your head buried in the sand (or elswhere). I have two rpinted studies at my home that I will bring to work with me and give you information on how to inverstigate it for yourself.

    However,If you had taken the time to actually look up the reference I did give you (To the Simpsonwood Conferece -Hosted by the FDA,CDC, and WHo) then you would have read for yourself that they found a statistically significant links between Thimerosal in vaccines and a whole host of neurological disorders (primarly speech and language). They were very careful, however, to state that although the neurological symptoms they found mimicked autism – that thimerosal wasn’t the CAUSE of autism. They were protecting themselves even then.

    And in case you didn’t know….Thimerosal was not only in the DPT vaccine, but in nearly all of them. The Hep B shot your child recieved in the hospital the day he was born had 28X the safe dosage of thimerosal. Ironically the MMR didn’t have any thimerosal in it, which most parents claim was the trigger, so don’t try throwing that in my face.

    In a nutshell, the evidence is out there, but you have to actually read it, instead of prejudging it based on your own skewed versions of what autism is and isn’t. The truth is that autism and autism spectrum disorders are different for every child. There are basic symptoms, but those basics ripple outward and cause all kinds of odd behaviors, fears, and neurological manifestations.

    I feel very sorry for you because you have seemilngly accepted what negligence dished out to you. Put yourself, your pride, your anger, and your fear aside and try looking at everything with an open mind instead of being beligerant about things you do not fully understand.

    Even though Generation rescue makes broad, and many blanket, statements…..if yopu follow the trails that spread out from it, you WILL find the credibility you are looking for. Credibility to finally make the TRUTH believable to you.

    Best Wishes,

    Brooke

    p.s. To quote me and then you:

    me:
    “Some think that truly loving their child means accepting them the way they are and learning to live with their condition. Other parents, like me, see that their children have so much more to offer than the silence of autism.”

    you:
    What an utterly vacuous and misleading argument. What on Earth makes you think that a) autism = silence and b) that if it did any parent would accept it.

    1) My child is nearly 7 years old and is nearly 100% non-verbal. He is growing more and more depressd at his inablility to communicate his feelings and desires. I see the sadness in his eyes and it makes my heart ache. He is living in a silence. he has thoughts and feelings, but he has no way to VOICE them. That is what i call the silence of autism.

    2) many many parents do accept the silence for their children. Not because they don’t love them, but because they don’t know what to do. For instance, I have a great friend who has a child with autism too. her son will come and stand in front of her, just stand there. She knows he wants something, but she has already given him everything she knows to try. He won’t move because he still has a need to fill. She becomes angry and frustrated becasue she cannot help or satisfy her child. So, she walks away and crys in her room. He is still stadning there, now stemming, with a look of utter dismay and sadness in his eyes. That haunts me.

    Whether you want to accept it or not, autism is like living in silence for many many children.

    I, for one, do not accept that this is my childs destiny. That he was put on earth to be sad and to live in emotional solitude. I believe instead, that there was a huge mistake made in our medical society. Thimerosal was taken out of animal vaccines years and years ago because of possible neurologic effects, yet no one remembered that it was in vaccines given to babies….. I am not angry anymore, and I don’t want revenge or money for damages. I simply want my child back. I want him back the way GOD created him. Back before a medical mistake stole his mind away.

    I hope you will take the time to look at evidence on both sides of the debate. Trust me it isn’t going away any time soon. Why wait until the truth is exposed to get help. By then it may be too late, if it isn’t already.

73. 
    Kev
    August 3rd, 2005
    04:18:38

    “Bottom line, there are plenty of unbiased peer reviewed studies out there. IF you don’t believe that, then you have your head buried in the sand (or elswhere).”

    Then it should be easy for you to link to them.

    “I, for one, do not accept that this is my childs destiny. That he was put on earth to be sad and to live in emotional solitude.”

    Nor do I and my daughter isn’t. Autism isn’t the cause of your son’s unhappiness Brooke.

74. 
    Brooke
    August 3rd, 2005
    18:10:22

    Kev,

    I don’t presume to know your child, don’t you DARE assume to know mine. How hypocritical for you to call me vacuous then turn around and make a statement like that. You have no idea how autism has affected my child, just as I don’t know the extent of your situation. My child is an affectionate, intelligent, and boisterous boy. The only time he ever has meltdowns or any type of behavioral crisis is when he experiences sensory overload and when he is unable to communiacate his needs and desires. Those two main factors are part of his autism. So don’t presume to know why my child is depressed.

    All you have done in any of your posts to me is spout your own personal feelings with no links or information that can even be validated. Insead of actually providing me with any type of imformation to support your own feelings all you have been able to do is spend time gritching becasue some of us are doing something you don’t understand or believe in.

    Well, so what if you don’t agree with me. I am proactively helping my kid with Biomedical intervention, speech and ot therapies, family counceling, and a ton of love. So, regardless of your pitiful attitude and lack of information…..my child is still on the road to recovery. Yes, recovery. Mercury poisoning is a treatable ail.

    I feel that you are being unbelievable stubborn in a situation where we as parents should be supporting each other. I don’t really understand why you are so adamantly set against a logical hypothesis that is being proven at this very moment. Why are you so set against even entertaining the possibility of hope?? My personal opinion, you have some type of political tie that make the thought of our governement knowinlgy allowing your child to be poisoned infathomable.

    I forgot the study that i had printed at my house. So, in the mean time here is a link to a recent Science Digest Article published in June of this year.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....75GMG1.DTL

    The resistance to the theory of immunizations and autism is waning in congress as more and more studies are coming to completion. Congress is set to ban thimerosal in infant vaccines by 2006. Why do you think they are doing that???? If there was no proof of harm done and no risk, they wouldn’t spend the money to get it off the shelves.

    I have provided you with several avenues to support my perspective, yet you have not provided one link that has more to it than blog postings.

75. 
    Brooke
    August 3rd, 2005
    18:38:08

    Kev,

    To quote a response you posted to Kevin Champange

    “”If Mercury will ‘definitely’ cause long term damage then why hasn’t everyone in the last 60 years had cancer and heart failure? Come on man – engage your brain a little.””

    I have to tell you that I laughed out loud when I read this. The effects of mercury are not the facts in dispute here. Are you trying to say that mercury isn’t toxic. HAHA.

    You truly are the quack he accuses you of being. To think I was feeling bad for being so blunt with you. You have no idea what you are talking about. I, on the other hand, know of 5 families who have tried Chelation.
    Out of those 5 families. 3 saw dramatic improvment in speech and language within 2 weeks to 2 months of treatment. 1 family saw regression, which made them stop treatment (even though a temporary regression is a noted possible side effect). And the final family stopped treatment because their child had an allergic reaction to a supplement. That family is currently undergoing allergy testing so that they can resume treatment.

    So, in a nutshell (which is appropritate for you, since you are a nut) , you may choose not to believe in medice that isn’t endorsed by our wonderful government….but I have seen children recover, and I am looking forward to seeing my own child join those ranks.

    I am finished with you and your closed mind. You will feel like a real ass when the truth comes out and your child isn’t among the scores of kids whose parents took the chance to help them when the timing was right.

    I’ll pray for you and for your daughter, you definately need it.

    AND BTW…..DON’T DETER ANY PARENT WHO SEEKS ANY TYPE OF TREATMENT FOR THEIR CHILD LIKE YOU DID WITH JENNIFER (EARLIER IN THE BLOG). YOU DON’T EVEN PROVIDE YOUR FULL NAME, SO YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT TO GIVE ANY TYPE OF MEDICAL ADVISE OF ANY KIND. IF THAT WOMANS CHILD MISSES OUT ON TREATMENT BECASUE OF YOUR MISLEADING….SHAME ON YOU.

76. 
    Anne
    August 5th, 2005
    00:39:47

    Brooke, I was concerned about your story about your friend who walks away from her non-verbal child when he tries to communicate with her because he can’t speak out loud. You may want to help her explore some alternative means of communication such as PECS, a communication board, sign language, assistive technology like the VOCA devices, or whatever other communication methods you are exploring with your child. As you say, the ability to communicate is important, and if speaking out loud is not an option, then another method would be preferable to the parent just going to her room and crying. Your friend should be made aware that there are non-speaking autistic people who can communicate.

    I was happy to see you describe your son as an “affectionate, intelligent, and boisterous boy.” It probably doesn’t seem to matter much now while he is 7, but you might not want to go around saying that his mind has been stolen. It does have a dramatic ring to it, but your description of him shows that it is not accurate. Many of us have older autistic kids who apply to college or for work, and we don’t like people to get the wrong idea that their minds have been stolen because they are autistic. Also, you probably wouldn’t want your intelligent son to think so either.

    Your posts indicate that you may be under the mistaken impression that Kevin Leitch is a medical doctor from the United States. If you take even a cursory look at his blog as you are posting to it, you will see that he is a web designer/internet programmer from the UK. I don’t think he practices medicine on the side, but if you have problems with a PHP/MySql project or something, then he is your go-to guy. I don’t get the impression that Kev is too concerned about what our wonderful US government endorses.

    I wish you the best of luck with your little one and finding a way for him to communicate.

    Anne

77. 
    Brooke
    August 10th, 2005
    19:33:07

    Anne,

    Thank You for the elloquent response. It is a nice change from what I had been recieving.

    I made no presumptions about what Kevins proffession was or where he was located. All I knew about him was that he was attacking an issue from a view point of negativity…..not exactly in keeping with what works with autism.

    About my friend: *MO as I’ll call her did respond that way for a long time because *O did not respond to pecs or the visual schedule that her therapist suggested. Amazingly enough *O began to type after I bought him an introductory typing program for kids. She was skeptical, but after about 3 weeks he had mastered the program. Close to a year after that he bagan to make the connection that words and letters go together and as of now he is communicating very well. I worded my paragraph so as to make a point of where some parents can be and where my friend had been.

    I do apologize for any generalization you thought I was making about Autism stealing the mind. I feel very strongly that there was a medical mistake of horrific proportions that did steal the mind of my child. I am not saying that he doesn’t have a mind, but I am saying that what he has now was not what GOD gave him, and does not relfect who GOD created him to be.

    I can see that my child is intelligent by the things he accomplishes and the problems he manages to overcome with no verbal language or assistive technology. My son wants to talk, not use a keyboard or PECS. I’ve tried for two years to get him to do the pecs. He would rather sit and try for 15 minutes to force the words to come out than to use a card. The look on his face is “I AM NOT USING THAT STUPID CARD” It can be frustrating, but he is determined to speak, and I am determined to help him.

    I do aprreciate your response and the concern for my friend. When I said that the scene I saw that day with her and her child haunts me…that is the truth. The reason I told that story is because I know that not all parents are as strong and motivated to help their children as we are. You would think that every parent would walk through fire for teir child, but unfortunately that isn’t the case. I try to reach out to whomever I can, but I can’t fight the battle for every child or every parent.

    Thanks Again,

    Brooke

    p.s. forgive my spelling, I am at work and am typing to quickly… :)

78. 
    Kev
    August 10th, 2005
    22:31:38

    Brooke I have no idea what to say to you – you say I called you vacuous when I didn’t (but what you said was pretty vacuous – Anne’s better with words than me though), you then go on to say I presume to know your child because I say autism isn’t the cause of his unhappiness???

    There must be more substantial differences between British English and US English than I thought. A lot of what you say I simply don’t understand at all. Sorry.

79. 
    Theresa
    August 11th, 2005
    09:28:58

    Dr. Buttar has claimed that he has cured his son from autism. I don’t know the requirements in US but in Australia, for autism to be diagnosed, the child has to be assessed by 3 medical practitioners. I would be happy if Dr. Buttar provides assessments of his son at the time of diagnosis and one after he was cured. To have a paper published in a peer reviewed journal can be a long and arduous process (although this would be ideal).

80. 
    HN
    August 12th, 2005
    06:28:38

    I think the point of my last comment was missed… Autism is NOT the only cause of communication disorders. It is just one of many reasons.

    For example… before a child who is non-verbal gets evaluated by a speech/language pathologist he/she is seen by an audiologist. This is to determine if the child has a hearing loss.

    (I once saw a comedy act by a hard of hearing comedian. She made a comment that back in the “good ol’ days” she was put into a special class for the mentally retarded. That was until they figured out that she had a severe hearing loss. Her punch line is: “And they thought I was slow!”. I cannot remember her name, sorry).

    For more information on all the varieties of communication delays and disorders please see:
    http://www.asha.org/public/spe.....roblem.htm (browsing through this website may link you to other augmentative communication systems, likw http://www.asha.org/public/spe.....isions.htm … my son used sign language until he could produce intelligible speech).

    I also found the book by Patricia McAleer Hamaguchi very helpful (it also had an appendix listing useful organizations in the edition I read): Childhood Speech, Language and Listening Disorders, What Every Parent Should Know :
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obi.....471034134/ ... I see it has been updated. I found it useful even though it did not have my son’s disorder in very much detail (oral motor dyspraxia with functional dysarthria and some dysphasia … which may or may not be related to a history of seizures—- by the way, they were infantile spasms that occured while he was still a newborn in the hospital and before ANY jab… even for the PKU blood draw, http://www.marchofdimes.com/pr.....2_1219.asp … which he got a bit late, and it was a combined with a test to check for phenobarbitol level).

81. 
    Jennifer
    August 12th, 2005
    16:39:41

    Has anyone ever seen “Lorenzo’s Oil?” I have. I watched it with my son Colin.

    He was 4 at the time. He said, “Mommy, it was just like us at all the hospitals.” Then, he hugged me and thanked me for “saving his voice.”

    Colin lost his “voice” at age 18 months, right after his immunizations. By 2 1/2 Georgetown University labeled him “PDD.” By age 3 1/2 he was labeled with “High-functioning autism.”

    His Georgetown neurologist said he would never speak again and probably always bang his head, avoid eye contact, etc. He encouraged me and my son to be “medicated” so we could “accept” our fate.

    I took matters into my own hands. I researched until I could find a diet that would help stop his “mysterious” GI symptoms that no doctor could help us with. The GFCF diet didn’t work. We tried the “Specific Carb. Diet” or SCD - and it was a miracle.

    Colin spoke, did pretend play, made friends, and started catching up in all areas—all at 4. The ABA therapists wouldn’t even take our money; they said he was doing fine on his own. The diet was all we did. Many said, oh, “It just happened; kids catch up” or “you have no SCIENTIFIC proof that the diet helped him.”

    Well, Lorenzo’s dad didn’t either, but he knew the oil was helping his son get better.

    If I had to sit around waiting for doctors to help my son, he could still be at home – banging his head all night (in pain, he later told me his tummy hurt and he couldn’t tell me), having bad GI (diar.) all day.

    Today, he is integrated 80% in a mainstream class. And, despite the fact that he has learning disabilities, he is reading at the state VA level for 1st grade and passed all his subjects. His fine motor is still weak, however, and he has social confidence challenges. And, he still has metals…arsenic, mercury—seven of them to be exact.

    We are going to Dr. Buttar next week. I believe in him. If my son goes off diet, he has problems. Why? Why isn’t his gut healed yet? The metals. I know it is the metals.

    Colin doesn’t want to have to diet the rest of his life; he wants me to “get the metals out.”

    I can’t listen to all the doctors (alternative and mainstream) for answers. I have to listen to my son. My understanding of his symptoms and my instinct to follow what is best for him has gotten me this far. I am not going to let this political debate interfere with my decisions.

    Vitamin C chelates. ALA chelates. He has had good responses to both. I may not be a doctor or a scientist – I am just a Mom. But I believe in my son, and I will not stop until he is free of the metals…and until I know the genetic reason behind the fact that made him unable to fight off the mercury—like most kids were able to do. The glutathione must be low in my family – many of my relatives had Parkinsons – and there ARE proven studies showing people with Parkinsons have low glutathione….there must be a reason we don’t have it and have weak immune systems.

    I will not stop until I find that reason. And call me what you will, my son is healing…and while people are debating on which side is right and who is more honest – the medical organizations and drug companies or parents like Dr. Buttar and other “alternative” doctors – I will be busy healing my son.

    The truth is never one side or the other. The true answers in life are somewhere in between.

    Good luck to all parents out there who understand this struggle… Never give up.
    -Jennifer

82. 
    Kev
    August 12th, 2005
    16:51:49

    Jennifer – you do know that 90% of autisitcs go on to develop speech before the age of 10 right ( ~ C. Lord, S. Risi, A. Pickles, “Trajectory of language development in autistic spectrum disorders,” in Developmental Language Disorders: From Phenotypes to Etiologies, edited by Mabel L.Rice and Steven F.Warren (Lawrence Erlbaum Associates, 2004)? Without chelation?

    Its a biomedical red herring. If chelatinists want to help kids so much why don’t they allow their processes and tinctures to be peer reviewed? As soon as it ‘went mainstream’ the potential would be there to help vastly more kids – I wonder why they never do.

83. 
    Jennifer
    August 12th, 2005
    18:12:32

    Does that same study say that the children develop speech, start pretend play, stop having severe diar., and suddenly grow 6 inches before they’re 10 too? Does that same study say that “magically” wake up and start being emotional and hugging you all the time and start having conversations with you about God and religion and marriage and life and death before 10 too?

    Give me a break. The SCD diet has not been “peer-reviewed” or accepted by doctors yet either, and it was the best thing I ever did for my son. OT, Speech – nothing worked. The diet did.

    You know part of my inspiration was a woman who was the newsletter editor here in the DC area for the autism society. Her adult son with autism STILL suffered from GI symptoms—he’d been suffering since he was a little boy. NO ONE tested him for GI problems until he was in high school. By that time, he had a form of Colitis. She said it was too late for her to get him to follow a diet. SHE had only listened to mainstream doctors. I decided to listen to my instincts and my son. My son is 8 and does not have any more “mysterious autistic diar.” anymore. I didn’t wait for the doctor’s official stamp of approval for the SCD - and I’m not waiting for the one onTD-DMPS.

    Chelation my next step—period. Buttar helped his son and others…my son is next. I could care less about how long it takes mainstream medicine to wake up and smell the coffee. Diets cures won’t make drug companies money and chelation creams are big money makers either. Our Western culture is way to closed minded on how to cure patients. What ever happened to listening to a patient – or to a patient’s parents who know them best? We observe them every day. That may not be a “clinical study” but no one cares as passionately about a child’s recovery, or understands their symptoms as well as a parent.

    As I said before – the answer is never as clear cut as everyone wants to make it. The truth always somewhere in between. Integrated medicine – and getting to the ROOT of illnesses—including autsim—is the future. Wait and see.

    -Jennifer

84. 
    Emmanuel Schiff
    August 12th, 2005
    19:25:10

    Does the diarrhea actually have anything to do with autism? My nephew didn’t have that problem. If anything, he had the opposite problem because of picky eating or whatever.

    He was on a gluten-free diet for six months, and though he improved during that time, his parents came to the conclusion it was from the ABA and quit the diet and he still kept improving.

    He’s five years old and he’s been talking about life and death and religion for a year now. So there are other therapies that produce the results you described. Maybe it was your son’s ABA after all?

85. 
    Kev
    August 12th, 2005
    22:51:16

    You’re right Emmanuel – Diarrohea has nothing directly to do with autism. There’s emerging evidcne yet to be validated that suggests it might be a comorbidity but gastric issues form no part of the diagnostic criteria.

    Jennifer – like Emmanuel’s nephew, my daughter started expressing emotion, is the biggest girl in her class (at age 5 she wears clothes made for a 9 year old) loves to give and recieve hugs, has grown happy and confident – all without ‘special’ diets or chelation. Kids grow and develop – even autistic kids.

86. 
    Rick Frank
    August 23rd, 2005
    05:30:26

    onTD-DMPS
    My son is now 6 years of age and at the age of three was non verbal. I have given him 32 TD-DMPS treatments. All I can say is that he is the most responsive, beautiful, loving, child on earth.
    Say what you want, I have living proof of what can be achieved when you look out side of the box.
    I need no more proof than to hear him speak with confidence each morning as he jumps on the school bus.
    Don’t let the world pass your child by when there is hope!

87. 
    HN
    August 23rd, 2005
    05:54:38

    Oh wow!... my son was also non-verbal at age 3 (and very loving). When he was 6 years old he was also talking.

    WithOUT any strange un-tested creams.

    Just speech therapy (started at age 2 1/2) and a good educational placement with a good special preschool at age 3 and kindergarten at age 6… and onto a regular ed. 1st grade the next year.

    Obviously… Rich Frank’s son has been kept away from ALL speech therapists, occupational and physical therapists and will start school for the FIRST time in the next couple of weeks. Right? Because it was the cream, and the therapists, teachers and aging would have had no influence on the child’s development at all.

88. 
    Kev
    August 23rd, 2005
    06:36:15

    “Say what you want, I have living proof of what can be achieved when you look out side of the box.”

    No you don’t.

    I’m glad your boy is talking to you if thats what makes him happy Rich but HN is absolutely right. Speech Therapy will beat TD DMPS hands down any day of the week. There’s not even any proof Buttars magic cream even passes the skin barrier, let alone does any Chelating.

    The hard work in your scenario was done by your son and his therapists, not Buttar and your money.

89. 
    Rick Frank
    August 23rd, 2005
    21:13:08

    Obviously… Rich Frank’s son has been kept away from ALL speech therapists, occupational and physical therapists and will start school for the FIRST time in the next couple of weeks. Right? Because it was the cream, and the therapists, teachers and aging would have had no influence on the child’s development at all.

    Obviously, I’m unable and unwilling to spend the time necessary to provide a complete history on the development of my young son.
    I will inform whom ever wants to know however, Stratton received very intense therapy provided by private sources as well as local county and state programs shortly after we had him tested for what appeared to be at the time a sever hearing loss at the young age of 20 months.

    He began an excellent full time public program at the age of three and continued throughout the summers while the other children enjoyed the time off. “The hard work in your scenario was done by your son and his therapists, not Buttar and your money.”

    You’re absolutely right; his wonderful progress is a direct result of his own hard work.
    Myself, as well as others are simply providing the tools.
    This so called magic cream is nothing more than a continued effort to see that Stratton receives every opportunity to develop the life skills necessary to reach his full potential.
    I weighed the risk of treatment with this so called magic cream as did years ago with the vaccinations he received as an infant and decide there was little reason not to administer the strange un-tested cream.
    I question why some of you in this blog are so aggressively negative to normal people willing to do thing differently than you!
    Are there any of you that are experts on the subject matter or simply choose to see the cup always half empty?

    Tell me why are you so apposed to people using harmless alternative treatments?

    So what if this cream turns out to be nothing more than hand lotion and I’m not saying that it isn’t, has it really hurt you or anyone else?

    What’s your beef with this cream anyway? Is it that you guys are trying to be good servants and alert the general public regarding “Dangers” associated with its use, if so, please provide the data and I’ll cease its use immediately? Or are you simply in need of lashing out for your own unknown personal reasons.
    Until I see adverse reactions to the TD-DMPS I’ll continue its use.

    You may not believe this either, but I know some people who believe in things like Love and GOD, yet they have never seen them.

    Belief alone has healed a many a stranger things than PDD.

    I recommend putting some positive in your life and leave the harmless to their own.

90. 
    HN
    August 23rd, 2005
    22:55:14

    The “beef” with the cream is that:

    1) The cost of $800 to see Dr. Buttar

    2) The cost of the cream… with absolutely no evidence to show that it even is absorbed into the skin.

    3) Folks like you telling us that the cream did wonders, yet forgetting to mention or even credit the many hours of therapy and schooling that occurred from age 3 to 6… I had a conversation with a speech therapist who had client’s mom go on and on and on about how some supplement was causing improvements in the child—- The therapist got a blank stare when she asked “So you don’t think the 2 hours a week of intensive speech therapy your son received from us had any effect?” (by the way, the therapist worked for a clinic that provided FREE services to eligible people).

    4) Folks like you ignoring the fact that most of the kids improve withOUT the “magic cream”.

    5) Folks like you assuming that every child with speech/language difficulties is autistic due to vaccinations. Newsflash: My son is neither autistic and nor did his seizures have anything to do with vaccinations (a very young newborn almost 17 years ago).

    So… here is our question: Why the need to defend someone who is trying to make lots of money on faith alone? Why do you feel the need to spend your hard earned money on something that has never been shown independently to work, or even to be absorbed in the skin?

    ... and why did you even forget to count or even mention the actual hours and hours of work in effort by your son, his therapists, his teachers or even you, his parents?

    The last bit is the most offensive.

    Especially since there are parents who opt for the chelation route and decide to skip the therapy and schools (even when it has been offered free of charge).... wasting their money and the very precious early intervention time.

91. 
    Carole Andersen
    August 24th, 2005
    09:22:39

    HN,

    I am amazed that you or anyone would consider 2 hours a week of speech therapy to be “intensive”!!

    (“So you don’t think the 2 hours a week of intensive speech therapy your son received from us had any effect?”)

    I have asked around and I have been unable to find any one, adult or child, who has recovered from autism or any other developmental condition due to “natural progression” or “aging”. I was wondering if you had any peer reviewed publications on this method.

    I am also wondering why someone who does not have an autistic child would be so bitterly opposed to parents who do have an autistic child finding other methods including alternative treatments to help their child have a better childhood and future. YOU are not paying for their child’s treatments, so how are YOU being hurt? Why are you so obsessively critical of those parents??

    Carole Andersen

92. 
    Kev
    August 24th, 2005
    09:46:46

    Carole your argument is nonsense. Children of all neurotypes develop and progress. I’m totally bewildered by your ‘asking around’ and failing to find people who ‘recover’ without chelation.

    There’s people in this thread who are autistic who seem able to discuss this issue with you very easily. There’s people in this thread (including me) who’ve seen our children develop and progress just fine without the risk of chelation. Why the hell are you asking for peer reviewed studies for child develoment? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

    Rick and Carole – Chelation is not harmless on many levels.

    Firstly, its use even as a mainstream chelator is ambiguous. Its use as a ‘cure’ for autism is totally without scientific merit. If you are willing to stump up thousands of pounds (or dollars or whatever) then thats entirely your issue but you are promising false hope to people. TD DMPS in all probability doesn’t even pass through the skin. You’re paying (and encouraging others to pay) for a scam.

    If however, it turns out it does pass through the skin then you are using a poorly understood treatment that has been linked by the American Heart Association amongst others to serious organ failure and in some cases, death. Chelation is not a harmless treatment. Buttar’s TD DMPS is totally and wholly untested in any way – how do you know what its doing? If you beleive that mercury is specific enough to do very specific damage to a brain resulting in autism then how does it follow that a non-specific, untested, unverifiable ‘treatment’ such as chelation is in any way safe?

    The only thing thats absolutely sure about what you are doing is the fact that your kids are guinea pigs. You’ll have to forgive HN and myself if we’re unwilling to let that sort of thing go by without comment.

    You are also, with your dogged, obstinate and unfounded belief that autism = mercury and chelation = cure, deflecting much needed money away from valid interventions that will actually help autisitic people.

    “Scientists, despite ample evidence to the contrary, are people. And like other people, not many of them will consciously and willingly do something that will hurt them or their career. I know of researchers in the field of neurodevelopment and neurophysiology who have said flat out that they wouldn’t touch autism research with a ten-meter pole. They have seen what happens to the folks who stepped in the middle of this catfight and they don’t want any part of it.”

    Thats from an American scientist and fellow blogger. This continuing kidnapping of autism by ignorance and desperation has resulted in the statistic in my own country where only 8% of all time/money devoted to autism now gets spent on researching interventions. Most of the rest goes on chasing this idiotic thiomersoal or MMR connection.

    Please – just stop and think about the harm you are doing. Your actions have consequences that have global impacts for us all and local impacts on the long term health of your own kids. Wake up, dig your heads out of your prayer book and do something for your kids, not yourselves.

93. 
    HN
    August 24th, 2005
    18:46:58

    Dear Carole,

    That was an example of a conversation I had with a real speech therapist. This was discussion because she works at a university’s child development center that provides free and low cost services to many children. Her daughter happens to have cerebral palsy and had also received services there. Some places 2 hours a week of therapy is intensive… especially compared to the half hour a week some kids get in the school (many times the 2 hours comes in 4 half hour sessions because the pre-schoolers cannot handle much more).

    I came to this discussion because a disability listserv I was on was taken over by some parents of autistic kids. They kept going on and on about chelation… and then I found out one of the parents actually worked for one of the proponents (apparently they are out seeking other disability groups, including seizure disorders, cerebral palsy, Down’s Syndrome, Fragile X and many others).

    Autism is NOT the only disability that this bilge is directed towards.

    My anger is directed to those who want us to spend our limited amount of funds (insurance does not cover all neurodevelopmental therapy, often parents have to pay for it themselves) on unproven, sometimes dangerous (in the case of oral chelation and other drugs given to kids) and even useless (like the Buttar Cream and cranialsacral therapy, the latter being a kind of homeopathic massage) treatments.

    I have had heard through other disability forums of parents being sold on doing chelation (and/or other un-proven methods) and then stopping or not even starting early intervention programs for their kids.

    That is reprehensible.

94. 
    Carole Andersen
    August 24th, 2005
    19:19:15

    Kev,

    I never said, “without chelation”. I said due to “natural progression” or “aging” which is the explanation you and your camp give to any child that is getting better. So where are all of the adults that have recovered from autistism (no insult intended to your daughter or anyone else) due to “natural progression” or “aging”? And since you are so sure that this is the explanation vs. alternative treatments and protocols, why would there be a need for intervention research?
    Just for your information, I bellieve that several different therapies should be available to treat autism spectrum disorders, including but not limited to chelation. I don’t think that parents should be ridiculed for searching for treatments to improve their child’s/children’s lives and futures. All kids are different and are affected differently and therefore, may respond differently. What works for one child may not work for another child. Also, what works for one child MAY work for another child. That’s why there are so many parent networks around.

    Mainstream medicine cannot be depended on to help their child/children. All they have to offer is just “accept the diagnosis” and if the child’s behaviors become unmanageable “sedate” or “institutionalize”. If ” natural progression” or “aging” is the explanation for the recoveries of the children that have recovered, why doesn’t mainstream medicine mention that when the child/children are diagnosed? Since they are diagnosed by a TEAM of doctors, at least, here in the US, you would think that one of doctors would say, “Your child may/will get better as he/she grows due to natural progression/aging and here are the statistics and studies on it.”

    “They have seen what happens to folks who stepped in the middle of this catfight and they don’t want any part of it.”

    The above comment scares me because it shows that researchers are afraid they may find results that go against the pharmaceutical companies and/or mainstream medicine.

    Perhaps there IS something to what all those “mercury moms”
    are saying.

    Carole Andersen

95. 
    HN
    August 24th, 2005
    20:35:19

    So do you have any evidence that the DMPS cream actually gets past the skin to do anything?

    Does it do anything other than sit on the skin and smell bad?

    Why would anyone want to pay for that than, for instance, 8 to 20 speech therapy hours?

96. 
    Rick Frank
    August 24th, 2005
    21:27:11

    With all due respect, it sounds like the issue isn’t the cream or other unproven/untested alternative, it’s the money to you!
    Therefore, you of all people should respect the fact that possibly the reason some of these alternative medicines haven’t yet received the blessing of the Medical community might be a result of the lack funds! So for some of us experiencing positive results using these non-mainstream alternatives the proof (and our money) is in the pudding.

97. 
    Kev
    August 24th, 2005
    22:28:53

    You two do know that a 5 year old autistic child died on Tuesday whilst undergoing Chelation right?

    This isn’t about money, its about respect for your kids strong enough not to treat them as guinea pigs using methods that could bloody kill them!

    Scientists hesitate to get involved not because they don’t want to piss off Pharma’s but because they’ve seen what happens to their colleagues who recieve hate mail, death threats, obscene phone calls etc when they publish more evidence not in line with these Mercury Moms.

    I myself recieve about 10 or so pieces of hate mail a week. I’ve been called a chid abuser for (ironically given todays news) not chelating my daughter and told I should go and sit next to ‘the nearest arab carrying a backpack’.

    The simple truth is the a lot (and I mean a lot ) of people on your side of the debate simply aren’t rational. Rational people don’t throw away their kids lives on dangerous unproven treatments. They don’t justify it with statements to the effect that their kids are ‘better dead than autistic’.

    Carole wants studies to show most autistics end up just fine. I guess that depends on your definition of ‘just fine’. How about speech? 90% of all autistic kids can speak before the age of 9. I can’t be bothered to track the source down but I will find it if you request it.

    Carole also wants to know where all the adult autistics are. They’re all around you Carole. Dan Akroyd is on the spectrum, he’s an adult. Here’s seven pages of adult autistics. How about two large web forums dedicated to teen and adult autistics? AspiesForFreedom has over 650 members. WrongPlanet has over 800 members.

    The ‘autism epidemic’ line is, frankly, bullshit. New Scientist explains why but be careful – it contains actual science.

98. 
    Carole Andersen
    August 24th, 2005
    22:36:53

    HN,

    My daughter put some TD-DMPS on my arm and it absorbed into my skin. Additionally, it did not smell as bad as you are making it out that it does. My grandson gets his dose in the evening after dinner every other evening. He takes a bath in the morning before school and is offensive to no one. When I give him a hug and kiss before he goes to bed there is no offensive odor coming from him. As far as the smell goes a mountain is being made out of a molehill. This is slow chelating as is NDF plus and my grandson has benefited from both.

    As far as chelating in general, I personally think that slow chelators (oral, transdermal) with mineral/vitamin support appear to be better (easier on the body) than faster (IV) chelators.

    As I’ve said before, my daughter has done hours of research almost daily for years. She has figured out what she expects a certain treatment to do for her son (Gavin) before she tries it on him. If she sees that it is not working she will discontinue it and research an alternative treatment or protocol. Many times she only has to reduce the recommended amount to see positive results. Her advice is to go slow first.

    In answer to your question, I don’t think that chelation is the only answer. I think that there are so many issues to address that all types of treatment, protocols and therapies should be considered. After diligent research of course.
    Any therapy offered by the schools or any other agency should be taken advantage of because it may help. However, be careful, I just heard of a public school whose autistic and other special needs children’s teachers asked the parent if “time out ” was permissible. The parents of course said yes. Time out was a dark 4×7 foot room (closet) that the offending child was locked into via deadbolt. Unfortunately the children were unable to tell their parents about this mistreatment. An aide finally did. My friend’s non verbal 6 year old was in this class. There is no easy answer. The parents are doing the best that they can in a difficult situation.

    Carole Andersen

99. 
    Carole Andersen
    August 24th, 2005
    23:20:47

    Kev,

    No, I did not know about the child that died during chelation. I am so sorry for that family.

    Thank you for the link to the news article. I did notice that the chelation used on the child was the IV type, the same chelator that the American Heart Association reported on.

    Carole Andersen

100. 
     HN
     August 24th, 2005
     23:59:26

     “With all due respect, it sounds like the issue isn’t the cream or other unproven/untested alternative, it’s the money to you!”

     Actually it is about effective treatment, and not throwing good money away.

101. 
     Stew
     August 28th, 2005
     17:20:18

     Hi Kev, just read this thread and thought I would voice my opinion. I guess I’m one of those parents that treats their kids as guinea pigs, as you put it. Personally I don’t see it that way but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
     I’m not trying to be disrespectful but all the accepted mainstream treatments you have mentioned have at one stage in their development been considered unproven and alternative and the parents willing to undertake them considered (by people such as yourself) as reckless and irresponsible. But without parents willing to take an informed next step, those treatments would not be available to your daughter today. Only fifty or so years ago the parents of autistic children were considered by mainstream medicine as being directly responsible for their child’s condition, as the peer reviewed professional opinion of the time was that Autism was caused by either an abusive father or frigid mother syndrome.
     So I guess the point I’m trying to make is, I don’t consider a parent making a well researched informed decision as an irresponsible act, its the reason we have the accepted treatments we have today and the reason that the treatment options our children’s children will have, will be better.
     I think Arthur Schopenhauer said it best “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident”
     Cheer’s Stew.

102. 
     Colleen
     September 1st, 2005
     19:01:06

     I have 2 kids with autism and they are both in intensive interventions. They are coming along nicely. Bottom line is I’m not going to allow those toxins to stay in their bodies any longer than I have to. All the therapies in the world can’t stop mercury and other toxins from continuing to do damage to their little growing bodies and brains…

103. 
     Kev
     September 1st, 2005
     20:58:26

     So you have 2 kids who are autistic eh Colleen? Tell me, was the second one vaccinated?

     If so, why did you do it when you ‘knew’ it caused your first chlds autism? If s/he wasn’t then you need to read this.

104. 
     Brooke
     January 6th, 2006
     20:21:49

     I am revisiting this rediculous blog because after 5 months of chelation I have seen dramatic improvments in my son. I have also learned far more about why my son is autistic and why his body reacts to things the way it does.

     When i initially posted in this tread I was very angry and a bit on the uninformed side. That doesn’t mean that I was wrong in some of the things I said, it mearly means that I wasn’t as thorough as I ought to have been.

     My son is now talking in short sentences, he is jovial and happy, he is interacting with his baby brother, he is initiating pretend play, he is not watching movies anymore and instead plays interactive computer games that are helping him improve his language skills. NONE of these changes came about in the years we spent doing traditional therapies and intervention with only speech and occupational therapy.

     The changes in my son have been so dramatic that after returning to school from the summer break his teacher called me astounded. she asked what in the world I had been doing with PAtrick – that he was talking and eating and playing when last year he fought at lunch and screamed whenever anyon got near him.

     In regards to how he became autistic: Patrick was genetically predisposed to being a non-excretor. His body was unable to eliminate the toxins that were being absorbed through the skin, ingested in contaminated foods, and through the mercury loads he recieved from thimerosal containing vaccines. When he recieved the MMR vaccine the live virus attacked his immune system, which had been weakened by toxic overloads, and caused an entire body reaction. This reaction included; auto-immune damage, gastro intestinal damage and neurological damage. We have test results to show that he has the measles virus lining the walls of his intestines which has been causing him to not digest his foods properly and was actually causing his body to react as if it were having an allergy reaction. Since we have been treating his gasto symptoms and modifying his diet, he is improved 100%. We did not toally eliminate dairy from his diet but rather began an alternating schedule for foods. Now, instead of being a picky eater only eating foods that are white and mushy….he will eat anything that has been partially blended up. He is working on chewing, but that is a sensory issue that is coming along slower than the dietary tolerances.

     In a nutshell…..my son is getting better with the help of BIOmedical intervention, whixh we have used as a supplement to the traditional therapies….not in place of. I don’t think that speech and occupation tharapies are useless, in fact i believe they are equally important. These kids are delayed, they do need extra help in learning the things that did not come naturally…but I believe that these therapies should be used in conjunction with one another according to what works best for each individual child.

     All the negativity and hatefulness that I read on this thread months ago was very detrimental to any agenda. Being hateful won’t get anyone anything…accept more hate and negativity.

     I really liked what another parent posted about how in the past it was medically accepted that autistic kids were the result of an abusive father or a frigid mother. Just goes to show how nothing is ever concrete. Everything changes and the truth is that the truth will prevail eventually.

     I have a feeling that when the truth does come out – When the rate of autism declines dramatically in the absence of thimerosal in vaccines over the next few years – that this Kev and HN will feel utterly rediculous and will feel the burden of their own ignorance. For how many parents did their negativity scare away from action??? How many children will continue to live in a foggy brain becasue they blindly believed in Pharmaceutical Lies???

     (no matter what anyone wants to say or believe in – the FED took thimerosal out of animal vaccines becasue of the risk of neuroligical damage….it was sheer neglect and medical oversight that no one stopped to think that we were injecting our own kids with this stuff)

     To all those parents out there who know the truth and have the courage to do something about it…..Keep it up!! Our babies are getting better.

     Google Dan Olmstead for some good eye opening information on how to compare non-vaccinated populations with the vaccinated populations of America….

     ***I’m ready for the hate if you insist on dishing it out….bring it on.

105. 
     clone3g
     January 6th, 2006
     20:36:34

     This message brought to you from your good friends at DAN!

106. 
     Kev
     January 6th, 2006
     22:38:39

     “I have a feeling that when the truth does come out – When the rate of autism declines dramatically in the absence of thimerosal in vaccines over the next few years – that this Kev and HN will feel utterly rediculous and will feel the burden of their own ignorance. For how many parents did their negativity scare away from action??? How many children will continue to live in a foggy brain becasue they blindly believed in Pharmaceutical Lies???”

     Are you an Evidence of Harm reader Brooke? In June 2005, in an interview with the New York Times David Kirby said:

     “Because autism is usually diagnosed sometime between a child’s third and fourth birthdays and thimerosal was largely removed from childhood vaccines in 2001, the incidence of autism should fall this year.”

     In an email conversation with an online blogger, Kirby also admitted it was changes in actual case numbers that mattered, not incidence.

     Guess what Brooke? 2005 came and went with no lowering in case numbers. That means as Kirby says elsewhere that:

     “that would deal a severe blow to the autism-thimerosal hypothesis”

     Thiomersal didn’t cause your childs autism Brooke. Therefore chelation is useless and dangerous. Only today a coroners report confirmed that chelation was responsible for the death of a 5 year old autistic boy. A totally meaningless death.

     My daughter is also slowly learning to speak. A recent post of mine included an MP3 of her singing ‘twinkle twinkle little star’. She uses the computer (mouse and keyboard) to play games on the BBC website. She gets invites to her school friends birthday parties and guess what Brooke – no chelation. No injections of vitamins. No Lupron. No other untested, unverified treatments that, just like chelation have never been tested.

107. 
     Brooke
     January 11th, 2006
     21:13:12

     Check the numbers in California Kev….the incedence is declining. But, even if you only choose to “quote” segements that support your own opinions the real problem in awareness comes from the fact that the government refuses to do any real studies on non-vaccinated populations in the U.S.

     Dan Olmstead has done extensive research on the Amish, who do not vaccinate their children or recieve any toxic overloads from store bought contaminated foods. Intersetingly enough, there is virtually NO autism or austistic leaning children in these communities. I wonder why that is….if of course Thimerosal has nothing to do with the problem. Any why is it that no one on the pharaceutical side of the arguement is even interested in doing a study on non-vaccinated children???

     Say what you want, MR. Negativity. But that child did not die from “chelation” Chelation has been practiced by doctors for over 100 years. How amazing is it that when people decide to treat autism with it, it suddenly becomes super dangerous. GIVE ME A BREAK. One child dying because of an allergy doesn’t change the fact that over 100 thousand children are safely chelating right now.

     Your child doesn’t even have autism…so what’s your beef with the autism community that actually wants to do SOMETHING about the problem.

     And….what you do with your own daughter is your business. But you have no right to falsly talk about a treatment that you have no first hand experience with.

     I also find it interesting that there were no posts for months (5 I believe) and only after I came back and wrote about my sons improvement did youpick up your pitch fork and starty going at it again.

     I’ll be back in a day or two with some numbers on the declining rates in California (a state that is actually doing sometihng about this problem)

108. 
     Kev
     January 11th, 2006
     21:54:21

     “heck the numbers in California Kev….the incedence is declining.”

     No, its not Brooke. Whats happening is that there’s an occassional fluctuation (both up and down) in the rate of increase. In other words, there’s still an increase but there are also quarterly fluctuations in that increase. In actual fact, California hasn’t even reached the much trumpted ‘1 in 166’ figure yet. Further, California are quite clear on the matter – their figures cannot be used to accurately reflect fluctuations in the prevalence of autism. Don’t believe me? Email them and ask.

     “Dan Olmstead has done extensive research on the Amish, who do not vaccinate their children or recieve any toxic overloads from store bought contaminated foods. Intersetingly enough, there is virtually NO autism or austistic leaning children in these communities”

     Dan Olmsted has done a minimal amount of reaserch on two communities. He is a journalist, not a scientist and thus blanked out other possibilities. The Amish don’t drive do they Brooke? Maybe cars cause autism. Maybe horses prevent it. Once again, correlation does not equal causation.

     “Say what you want, MR. Negativity. But that child did not die from “chelation””

     I think you need to read what the coroners office had to say on the matter.:

     “In layman’s terms, the administration of ethylene diamine tetra-acetate, commonly known as chelation, resulted in a lack of oxygen to the brain as well as irreversible heart damage, said Allegheny County Deputy Coroner Ed Strimlan.”

     Source.

     “Chelation has been practiced by doctors for over 100 years. How amazing is it that when people decide to treat autism with it, it suddenly becomes super dangerous. GIVE ME A BREAK.”

     Its always been pretty dangerous Brooke. Here’s a quote from the American Heart Association:

     “EDTA isn’t totally safe as a drug. There’s a real danger of kidney failure. (renal tubular necrosis). EDTA can also cause bone marrow depression, shock, low blood pressure (hypotension), convulsions, disturbances of regular heart rhythm (cardiac arrhythmias), allergic-type reactions and respiratory arrest.”

     “In fact, a number of deaths in the United States have been linked with chelation therapy. Also, some people are on dialysis because of kidney failure caused, at least in part, by chelation therapy.”

     Source.

     You might also be interested in DMPS Backfire.

     “One child dying because of an allergy”

     He didn’t die of an allery Brooke. He died as a direct result of the EDTA chelation he recieved.

     “doesn’t change the fact that over 100 thousand children are safely chelating right now.”

     I sincerely hope they are. I also hope they don’t come to you for advice because you literally have no clue what you’re talking about on so many issues its not even funny.

     “Your child doesn’t even have autism…so what’s your beef with the autism community that actually wants to do SOMETHING about the problem.”

     Er, my daughter is classically autistic. Kanners autism. It says so in various places all over my blog. Click the ‘colophon’ link above.

     “But you have no right to falsly talk about a treatment that you have no first hand experience with.”

     I have every right to talk about whatever I like. Just as you do – I’ll even let you run your mouth about my daughter, whom you have no first hand experience with.

     “I also find it interesting that there were no posts for months (5 I believe) and only after I came back and wrote about my sons improvement did youpick up your pitch fork and starty going at it again.”

     Brooke, you’re making yourself look foolish again. This blog is bigger than this single thread. Click the ‘archive’ link at the top for the rest of whats under your nose. This blog gets an average of approaching 1000 unique visitors per day. I post to it two or three times a week.

     “I’ll be back in a day or two with some numbers on the declining rates in California”

     You have an uncanny knack of not comprehending anything that appears under your nose. As I wrote above, even David Kirby, author of Evidence of Harm realises that a change in rates means nothing. Whats important is a decline in case numbers in 3 – 5 year olds and it would have to be a pretty significant drop too. Email him and ask him if you don’t believe me. Thats what I did.

     You really do need to stop all the blustering and posturing Brooke and start to actually research and understand the results of your research. As it stands, you’re coming off as the village idiot.

109. 
     Brooke
     January 12th, 2006
     16:37:16

     What a lovely way you have with cutting people down who disagree with you. So, I said blog instead of thread…go on and harp on the small things. The point was that this topic wasn’t addressed in months. Only when someone posted a differing opinion did you revisit it.

     I’ve read some of your links. They aren’t medical facts, they are just more “opinions” that support your own. I could supply links to “opinions” that support mine viewpoint, but opinions aren’t worth much…..you should know that. What’s that saying…. “Opinons are like….

     I think it is extremely amusing that becasue I say things that contradict with your views, that I am foolish. I could say the same for you…but I’m not a hypocrit. You are entitiled to your opinions….but you shouldn’t state your “opinions” as facts like you do so often. It’s misleading.

     Below is a table of yearly increase in California Autism caseloads (Q4-Q4).

     1993-1994: 13.06%
     1994-1995: 13.02%
     1995-1996: 14.71%
     1996-1997: 17.28%
     1997-1998: 16.23%
     1998-1999: 19.05%
     1999-2000: 15.86%
     2000-2001: 19.36%
     2001-2002: 21.28%
     2002-2003: 15.34%
     2003-2004: 13.08%
     2004-2005: 10.72%

     The numbers peaked in 1999 and in 2001. As you can see caseloads are declining…these FACTS are contrary to your OPINIONS.

     I checked out the DMPS backfire website. The person who set it up is not a doctor and has no medical background. Why should I base my couses of action on anything that individual has to say?

     I don’t have all the facts, that is true. I am not as well read in some areas as other people who have posted on this “bashing” blog (er, sorry…thread). But I am not afraid to stand up for what I believe and for what I KNOW is helping my child.

     I WILL apologize for mistating that your child is not autistic. I read another post by another Kevin whose child was suffering from seizure activity and speech delays. For that mistake I will take responsibility. But not for anytihng else I have said.

     In a nutshell; You are beligerant. You are fanatical. You have no clue how to related to people with differing ideas. It’s not anyones fault but your own if you only choose to see and quote information that backs up your own ideas of truth.

     here are a few links to actual scientific data that provides evidence of thimerosals dangers….that’s SCIENTIFIC DATA, not mere opinions….

     http://dx.doi.org/ (enter doi: 10.1289/ehp.7712)

     http://www.nature.com/mp/journ.....01529a.pdf

     I’ll post more tomorrow. I am a working mother….so my time is limited. I don’t sit around all day and try to tick people off who don’t like what I say, Kev.

110. 
     Kev
     January 12th, 2006
     17:11:05

     “I’ve read some of your links. They aren’t medical facts, they are just more “opinions” that support your own.”

     The coroners report that proves you wrong is just an opinion? No Brooke, its a fact. You were wrong. Again. Get over the fact.

     “I think it is extremely amusing that becasue I say things that contradict with your views, that I am foolish. I could say the same for you…but I’m not a hypocrit. You are entitiled to your opinions….but you shouldn’t state your “opinions” as facts like you do so often. It’s misleading.”

     The difference between mine and yours Brooke, is that mine are verifiable. Take the American Heart Association link I posted that proves you wrong. Yet again. Thats an organisation comprised of scientists who submit peer reviewed papers. There are no peer reviewed papers that support the safety or efficacy of chelation for autism. There are no peer reviewed papers that support a causative link between thiomersal and autism. Those aren’t my opionions Brooke. Those are facts.

     “The numbers peaked in 1999 and in 2001. As you can see caseloads are declining…these FACTS are contrary to your OPINIONS.”

     Can you read? The ‘opinions’ you state aren’t mine Brooke – they’re facts. Even David Kirby realises that whats important is a change in actual number of cases – what don’t you get about that? And your figures (if they’re correct) demonstrate a drop off in the rate of increase – not in the total amount. Do you understand the difference? Again Brooke – don’t take my word for it. Ask David Kirby. Ask Rick Rollens. Ask California themselves. The rate of autism is still increasing – just not quite as fast last quarter if your figures are correct. I’ll quote David Kirby from an email he sent me a few days ago regarding this:

     “As for the California numbers, I think it is too early to declare a trend. The net gain in the 3-5 year old category indeed fluctuates from quarter to quarter.”

     Fluctuates Brooke. Goes up and down. Your own numbers (and the ones you left off) demonstrate that.

     What aren’t you getting here?

     “I checked out the DMPS backfire website. The person who set it up is not a doctor and has no medical background. Why should I base my couses of action on anything that individual has to say?”

     It wouldn’t really matter if they were would it? You’ve totally ignored the coroners report about young Tariq I posted. You’ve totally ignored the fact that I disproved your damnfool ‘allergy’ suggestion and you totally ignored the opinions of the American heart Association regarding chelation. Feel free not to answer Brooke, I realise its difficult when you’ve been made to look foolish to acknowledge the point but stop burying your head in the sand. All you’ve proven so far is that you are incredibly ignorant on a vast range of issues.

     “I WILL apologize for mistating that your child is not autistic. I read another post by another Kevin whose child was suffering from seizure activity and speech delays.”

     Thanks very much.

     “For that mistake I will take responsibility. But not for anytihng else I have said.”

     You won’t take responsibility for anything you’ve said? Hardly surprising Brooke. I wouldn’t want to either if I was repeating such a lot of old rubbish.

     “It’s not anyones fault but your own if you only choose to see and quote information that backs up your own ideas of truth.”

     A standard definition of the word ‘true’ reveals that it means (amongst other things) *’3. Reliable; accurate’*. My ‘opinions’ as you call them, at least the ones I claim as fact, are just that – facts. An example: young Tariq dies as a direct consequence of the EDTA chelation he underwent. Thats a fact. There is no causative link between thiomersal and autism. thats another fact. However, thiomersal may or may not actually trigger autism. Thats an opinion. See the difference? The facts are verifiable. The opinions are not.

     “here are a few links to actual scientific data that provides evidence of thimerosals dangers….that’s SCIENTIFIC DATA, not mere opinions….”

     No one is disputing thiomersal is a neurotoxin Brooke. If you got off your arse enough to read the rest of my site you’ll see that I’ve said that many times. I’ve also said its a good thing its not in vaccines anymore. However, that does not mean thiomersal causes autism. And you posting links to the Hornig mouse study (which doesn’t prove thiomersal causes autism) changes nothing.

     “I’ll post more tomorrow. I am a working mother….so my time is limited. I don’t sit around all day and try to tick people off who don’t like what I say, Kev.”

     I’ll ,llook forward to it. I’m a working father who doesn’t have much spare time either but I always enjoy a good laugh.

111. 
     clone3g
     January 12th, 2006
     19:34:05

     Babbling Brooke: here are a few links to actual scientific data that provides evidence of thimerosals dangers….that’s SCIENTIFIC DATA, not mere opinions….

     There is SCIENTIFIC DATA within those two studies but it is very far from evidence or proof of a connection between thimerosal and autism. Any implied connection is mere opinion.

112. 
     not counted
     January 12th, 2006
     19:53:03

     We are in California and did have services via the Regional Center, which is how the state caseload number are determined. The Calif Reg Center dropped my child as a client when we would not submit to an illegal financial audit. I have heard this story from others in my state. Dropping children, who still are in need of services, will certainly alter the numbers—but it does not mean any reduction of the number of those children who actually have ASD.

113. 
     Lynn
     January 12th, 2006
     21:02:25

     I understand many of the points this woman, Brooke, has made. And though I don’t agree with everything she said I, nor you, have the right to personally attack her for standing up for her views (even if she doesn’t have all of her ducks in a row so to speak).

     Not everyone will agree on every subject, however, in America we believe that everyone has a right to their opinions witohut fear or danger of persecution. You are apparently not farmiliar with this right.

     Based on your judgemental attitude and seemingly self imposed superiority…I’ll geuss you are English? I’ll say what babbling brooke had the tact not too. You’re an ass (which has nothing to do with your ethnicity and everything to do with your inability to show compassion and tact).

     Like it or not, not everyone has to agree with you or buy into the bits and pieces of “facts” that you present. There is plenty of evidence to support both sides of this issue. Unfortunately the AMA,FDA, CDC, WHO, and many others driven by power and greed, do not want the truth to be made known and suppress many articles and studies that would support the anti-thimerosal viewpoint. You may continue to buy into the rhetoric, but don’t attack those who decide not too. It’s their right.

     I hope that Brooke will bow out of this blog, not because she has been beaten, but simply because it’s utterly pointless to argue with someone who thinks they already know everything.

     And BTW, I’ve looked around the threads on this blog. What I see primarily is you resorting to name calling (Sue M. for one) when someone disagrees or questions your viewpoint. There are a growing number of people in America who do not believe that the federal organizations you take your information from are actually working in the best interest of the American society. Kevin Trudeau talks about this extensively, but of course you are going to call him a quack too.

     At least the parents who are trying Biomed are kind in their posts and in their attempts to discuss topics…so much more than anyone can say for you.

     Oh, and before you you go back to your classic “did you read what you wrote before you clicked ‘say it’”......yes, I’ve read it all.

114. 
     Kev
     January 12th, 2006
     22:17:09

     “And though I don’t agree with everything she said I, nor you, have the right to personally attack her for standing up for her views “

     Actually, I do. When someone comes onto my property and starts making assumptions about me or my kids then I’ll do whatever the hell I like.

     “Not everyone will agree on every subject, however, in America we believe that everyone has a right to their opinions witohut fear or danger of persecution. You are apparently not farmiliar with this right.”

     Possibily the single most idiotic thing you’ve said. If you think being engaged in a debate on a blog constitutes persecution then I admire the comfortable life you must have.

     “Based on your judgemental attitude and seemingly self imposed superiority…I’ll geuss you are English?”

     That and the ‘co.uk’ in the address bar eh?

     “I’ll say what babbling brooke had the tact not too. You’re an ass (which has nothing to do with your ethnicity and everything to do with your inability to show compassion and tact).”

     I’m quite happy to be tactful and be compassionate. But not when I’m attacked. You seem to come fom an idea that its OK to give but not to recieve back what you give. I suggest familiarising yourself with the idea of personal responsibility. Or to put it more simply: don’t give it if you can’t take it.

     Nice little nationalistic dig there though Lynn. I guess you often feel inferior to other countries?

     “Like it or not, not everyone has to agree with you or buy into the bits and pieces of “facts” that you present. There is plenty of evidence to support both sides of this issue. “

     There’s a difference between ‘facts’ and ‘evidence’. You may have ‘evidence’ to support your belief system but none of it constitutes fact. If you believe otherwise, I’m more than happy to discuss those things either here or on the autism/science forum I run.

     “Unfortunately the AMA,FDA, CDC, WHO, and many others driven by power and greed, do not want the truth to be made known and suppress many articles and studies that would support the anti-thimerosal viewpoint. You may continue to buy into the rhetoric, but don’t attack those who decide not too. It’s their right.”

     I’ll do whatever I choose to on my own property thanks. Personally I don’t believe in your ‘suppresion’ conspiracy theories but its your right to both believe in them and tlak about them – I’ll even let you do it on here, but don’t you dare have the temerity to tell me what I can and can’t talk about on my own property.

     “I hope that Brooke will bow out of this blog, not because she has been beaten, but simply because it’s utterly pointless to argue with someone who thinks they already know everything.”

     I don’t think I know everything Lynn. There’s a huge amount of things I don’t know. But I do know that EDTA chelation killed tariq, I do know that a lot of people who espouse your viewpoint don’t understand the difference between a fall in the rate of increase and an actual fall.

     _”And BTW, I’ve looked around the threads on this blog. What I see primarily is you resorting to name calling (Sue M. for
     one) when someone disagrees or questions your viewpoint.”_

     You haven’t looked very far then have you? Sue again starts these things then cries off when people respond in kind.

     “Kevin Trudeau talks about this extensively, but of course you are going to call him a quack too.”

     Well, I’d never heard of the geezer until now but yeah, he seems fairly quacky to me.

     “At least the parents who are trying Biomed are kind in their posts and in their attempts to discuss topics…so much more than anyone can say for you.”

     Right. You really haven’t read much on here have you? Here’s an example of some comments by a guy by the name of John Best Jr – a Generation Rescue ‘Rescue Angel’:

     *Anyone who is not chelating to get rid of the mercury is guilty of child abuse. Every doctor who is not telling their patients to chelate is guilty of malpractice….. Any parent who listens to the doctors tell them that there is no known cause or cure for autism is too damn stupid to have kids.*

     *Muslim terrorists who fly planes into tall buildings have a different set of beliefs than others. Your neurodiverse pals who sneeringly refer to people who try to help children as “curebies” and go to extreme measures in attempts to discredit those people are in the same class.*

     *You spout your nonsense in much the same way that terrorists shout for Allah before they blow things up with bombs strapped to themselves. That agenda is more than a little bit wacky to most people who are thinking straight.*

     *Your adult Asperger’s friends would have been called by a different name when I was young and nobody was aware of the effects of the mercury they’ve been shooting into us since the 1930’s. They would have been called nerds.*

     *After you die, Kevin, whoever has guardianship for your daughter will probably take her to a doctor and cure her. Then she can go visit your grave and have the word “Asshole” etched into the stone for your allowing her to live her life with a disability that you could have cured. I think my son may write “Thanks, Dad” on my grave. That’s why I’m still writing you, Kevin. You are fucked up.*

     Thats just one guy. I have plenty more emails if you’d like to see how people on your side of the debate are always ‘kind in their debate’.

     So Lynn – thanks so much for your partisan blindness. I’m sure you feel better now.

115. 
     Megan
     January 12th, 2006
     23:44:55

     Kev-
     Just some food for thought…You’ve keep writing about this child who died as a result of chelation. It is very sad, but let’s not throw the baby out witht the bathwater, so to speak. Let me ask you this: How many children died last year after taking antibodics? How about after getting their immunizations? Although this child’s death is a tragedy, the death of one child doesn’t mean chelation in and of itself is dangerous. THOUSANDS (if not many more) of parents have seen improvments in their children after chelating. And for those of us who have well informed/educated doctors, it can be very safe. The majority of us (with our doctors) monitor liver and kidney functioning, overall ‘health’, and also ‘watch’ for and monitor any mineral depletion (can be seen while chelating…and these tests are done every 2 months). Most (if not all) parents who decide to use chelation therapy in treating their autistic child do not just walk into it blindly. We read, research, talk with our doctors, and make informed decisions about what is best for OUR children based on that information. I think that therapies, such as OT/PT, Speech, Behavioral, etc, are extreamly important. But I also believe that biomedical interventions have a place in the treatment of autism.

     Kevin, you repeatedly mention how the AMA and scientific community does not support chelation as treatment of autism. Then there MUST be no value in it, right? That must mean that all of the parents of children with cancer are foolish for trying medications that might help their child WITHOUT the all mighty, never failing approval of the FDA? It CAN’T work if the FDA hasn’t approved it, right? If it hasn’t been accepted by the AMA, it’s gotta be crap. I’m sure you are aware of this next ‘history lesson’, but indulge me .
     Ignaz Semmelweiss was a Hungarian doctor working in Vienna Hospital in the 1840s. He was appalled to see that women were dying in huge numbers after childbirth from an infectious disease (Puerperal Fever). At that time, hand washing and disinfecting medical instruments didn’t occur in hospitals (in fact, ‘germs’ hadn’t even been discovered yet…they must not have existed, since doctors didn’t publish and accept their existence). Semmelweiss believed that doctors examining the women were spreading the disease on their unwashed hands after dissecting the corpses of women who had died of the fever. He successfully cut the death rate by ordering doctors entering his ward to wash their hand in a solution of chloride of lime. This was an effective antiseptic and killed the bacteria. However Semmelweiss could not prove this, as Pasteur’s Germ Theory was not discovered for another 20 years. DAMN! It must have been total crap since it hadn’t been proven, published, and accepted. His ideas were dropped when he left Vienna Hospital in 1848 and the death rates rose again. Geee…that pesky antidotal ‘evidence’. I’m sure that it was just a coincidence. Fortunately, during the next 50 years, this CRAZY idea became accepted more and more, and mortality rates as a result of infections from childbirth and surgery decreased dramatically.

     My point is this…What is TRUE today, may not be TRUE tomorrow. For those parents who are not content to just accept that this is how are children are meant to be, and to just roll over without a fight, we will do whatever we feel is BEST regardless of the AMA, CBC, and FDA, based on what WE see and know. Frankly, I’m not going to sit here waiting for someone who doesn’t give a crap about me, my family, or my child, to tell me how to treat my child’s autism. I will make my decisions NOT because of your or any other persons beliefs and insults, but based on the information I deem reliable and significant. I have no delusions of or desire to gain your ‘support’, but I feel that it’s my responsibility to let you know that there is a possibility that you DON’T know everything, and that people who’s ideas differ from yours MIGHT not be idiots.

116. 
     HN
     January 13th, 2006
     01:09:52

     Megan wrote: “Just some food for thought…You’ve keep writing about this child who died as a result of chelation. It is very sad, but let’s not throw the baby out witht the bathwater, so to speak. Let me ask you this: How many children died last year after taking antibodics? How about after getting their immunizations? Although this child’s death is a tragedy, the death of one child doesn’t mean chelation in and of itself is dangerous. THOUSANDS (if not many more) of parents have seen improvments in their children after chelating”

     Please see some of the comments in one of the more recent of Kev’s postings at:
     http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/index.php?p=317

     Unfortunately some other children have been harmed by chelation and other treatments. These are mentioned there.

117. 
     Kev
     January 13th, 2006
     01:11:50

     “Let me ask you this: How many children died last year after taking antibodics? How about after getting their immunizations?”

     Lots. Too many. Whats your point?

     “Although this child’s death is a tragedy, the death of one child doesn’t mean chelation in and of itself is dangerous. “

     Back upthread. Read the quote from the AHA, read some of the stuff on DMPSBackfire.

     Chelation alters the chemistry of the body. In some instances thats good. In a lot of instances thats bad. Seeing as there is no verifiable causative link between mercury and autism its curious as to how chelation could help.

     We are playing around with the unknown here. No-one has any clue at all what the short or long term effects on treating autistic kids with chelation may be. No safety trials have taken place for treating autistic kids with chelation.

     “THOUSANDS (if not many more) of parents have seen improvments in their children after chelating.”

     Reallly? You have a record of them all? How did you arrive at that number? How did you attribute the improvement solely to chelation? Do all those thousands only use chelation therapy?

     “Most (if not all) parents who decide to use chelation therapy in treating their autistic child do not just walk into it blindly.”

     If Brooke’s any example I’d say you’re mistaken.

     “I think that therapies, such as OT/PT, Speech, Behavioral, etc, are extreamly important.”

     Do you use these therapies in conjunction with chelation? How do you factor out their influece when deciding chelation has resulted in improvement as you say above?

     “It CAN’T work if the FDA hasn’t approved it, right? If it hasn’t been accepted by the AMA, it’s gotta be crap. I’m sure you are aware of this next ‘history lesson’, but indulge me .”

     I indulged you and its a fair point. Unfortunately its also a strawman argument – washing your hands never killed anyone Megan. Its also a logical fallacy – because Pastuer was right doesn’t confer validity on your beliefs.

     “For those parents who are not content to just accept that this is how are children are meant to be, and to just roll over without a fight,”

     Who are these parents content to roll over without a fight? I don’t know of any.

     “Frankly, I’m not going to sit here waiting for someone who doesn’t give a crap about me, my family, or my child, to tell me how to treat my child’s autism.”

     Where did I tell you how to treat your childs autism?

     “but I feel that it’s my responsibility to let you know that there is a possibility that you DON’T know everything, and that people who’s ideas differ from yours MIGHT not be idiots.”

     Its a stone cold certainty I don’t know everything and I’ve never claimed otherwise. Likewise you may well be right. Its extremely doubtful and not supported by any real evidence but – you know – keep on believing.

118. 
     Kev
     January 13th, 2006
     01:18:33

     You know I was wondering where all these extra people suddenly came from. The Yahoo chelatingkids2 group is the answer. Welcome across all. Civil debate is encouraged but get nasty with me and expect the same in return.

119. 
     Bartholomew Cubbins
     January 13th, 2006
     01:22:15

     Lynn, “Based on your judgemental attitude and seemingly self imposed superiority…I’ll geuss you are English?”

     Bigotry, Trudeau worship, scientific misunderstandings and anger. Nice.

120. 
     Lynn
     January 13th, 2006
     18:11:37

     Hey, Bart….

     I’m not a bigot and if you had read the rest of the paragraph, you’d know that. I have several friend from Britain and all of them acknowledge these statements as accurate. of course not true for every Englishman, but in Kev’s case…quite on The mark.

     And as for Trudeau Worship…..Trudeau isn’t a god, no one ever said he was. He’s just another man who refuses to continually buy into the garbage that OUR (yes ours is so much more screwed up than yours – hows that for bigotry, lol) society tries to feed us. I don’t believe in all that he says, just like I don’t buy into the crap that Kev is selling either. however, there is logic in what he talk about and if you weed through the crap, you can find some good valid information.

     Jeez, you guys are so easily riled up. Quite amusing.

     And For KEV,

     it is not necessary for you to repetitively regurgitate you perspective…..anyone can read it over and over in consecutive posts by you. It only takes one or two sentences to tell someone you don’t agree with them. See, I did it in one. It’s that easy.

     About personal attacks;

     I was as astounded and angered as I’m sure you were when I saw the post from one man starting with “after you die, Kevin” was totally out of line. I admit that. But, the person I made reference to was not that man. I references Sue M. and Brooke. Neither of them made personal attacks at you before you began to . I think that all Brooke said was that she was concerned that your “opinion” would have a negative impact of parents seeking options. And she admitted that she was mistaken about your child not being autistic…so why do you feel the need to attack and slander her?

     Just because you have the ability doesn’t mean you necessarily have the right. That goes for many different topics.

121. 
     Kev
     January 13th, 2006
     19:03:06

     “But, the person I made reference to was not that man. I references Sue M. and Brooke.”

     No it wasn’t Lynn – you said:

     “At least the parents who are trying Biomed”

     So I replied proving you wrong.

     “I think that all Brooke said was that she was concerned that your “opinion” would have a negative impact of parents seeking options. And she admitted that she was mistaken about your child not being autistic…so why do you feel the need to attack and slander her?”

     You obviously haven’t read the whole thread. Please do so. As far as Sue goes, again you quite clearly haven’t read every comment she makes. If you’d like me to point out what you can’t be bothered to find yourself I’d be happy to.

     I’m not one to be absuive unless I’m first attacked. After that, the gloves come off. If you or anyone else has an issue with that then – tough.

     “Just because you have the ability doesn’t mean you necessarily have the right”

     Actually – I do. You can deal with that, or not. Your choice.

     As for your personal opinion of me. Its hurt me to my very core but I guess I’ll just have to try to struggle through the rest of my life coping with your disaproval.

122. 
     Bartholomew Cubbins
     January 13th, 2006
     22:25:23

     “I’m not a bigot”
     “I have several friend from Britain”

     Oh, then I stand corrected.

     /rolls eyes

     “yes ours is so much more screwed up than yours – hows that for bigotry, lol) society”

     Nice assumption. I’m an american although I’ll state that I’m first generation, so the John Wayne/Lynn-ness hasn’t permeated my aura… just yet. Got my fingers crossed.

     I’m really struggling to figure out how your comments are relative, in any way, to the original post. And after re-reading what you wrote I have to say that I give up – you can find me in the science forum.

123. 
     Matthew Pearson
     January 20th, 2006
     17:48:08

     The Thimerosal-Autism link is not a scientific issue. It’s at least 5000 articles that blames thimerosal for autism and other NDs. I must say i pitty your child ‘Kev’ for having a father so ignorant and not capable of seeing something so incredible obvious. I suggest you read the science, and you can start with reading the study the CDC epidemiologist Tom Verstraeten presented on the secret Simpsonwood conference, not the manipulated version. I hope you one day understand the obvious facts. You just hope that it will not be too late for your daughter.

124. 
     HN
     January 20th, 2006
     22:44:21

     “The Thimerosal-Autism link is not a scientific issue. ”

     Exactly. There has been no valid science to link thimerosal to autism.

     ” It’s at least 5000 articles that blames thimerosal for autism and other NDs.”

     I’m sorry but newspaper and blog articles don’t count… and neither do papers printed in “Medical Hypotheses” (which will print anything as long as you pay them enough.

125. 
     HN
     January 20th, 2006
     23:17:19

     By the way a check of http://www.pubmed.gov with the terms “thimerosal autism” brings up a total 59 hits (these are research articles, letters, editorial and reviews). If Mr. Pearson was trying to refer to actual science papers, he was off by a couple of decimal points.

     Anyway, here are a couple of abstracts of the more recent cites indexed in PubMed:
     http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/en.....med_DocSum

     and
     http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/en.....med_DocSum

     And here is an actual paper:
     http://pediatrics.aappublicati...../115/1/200

     Though I am at at a loss of what this has to do with Rashid Buttar and his multi-faceted business of taking money from sick people for his promise of cures for a variety of ailments. From cancer to aging. Or the fact that his “Toxicology Certification” is from a group dedicated to find patients to chelate whether they need or not!

     The REAL toxicologists are here:
     http://www.acmt.net/main/ ...Which has a directory at http://www.acmt.net/directory/ where you can look up their members (with all the criteria set at “all” you get 244 hits). Rashid Buttar was NOT among them.

     Another interesting group is this: http://www.toxicology.org/ ... They do not allow access to their directory, but they have a LONG list of people willing to talk to the media:
     http://www.toxicology.org/ai/news/newsmedia.asp … Buttar (who likes to talk to congressmen) was not on that list.

     By the way, there is also an American College of Toxicology. Their journal deals with lots of animal studies. Here is their page where I found the other two organizations:
     http://www.actox.org/general/links.htm

126. 
     Kev
     January 20th, 2006
     23:24:33

     “It’s at least 5000 articles that blames thimerosal for autism and other NDs.”

     Really? I heard it was 5001.

     In amongst those 5000 Matthew, did you happen across any science that indicates a causative link between thiomersal and autism? Or maybe just a good English primer?

127. 
     Gray Falcon
     January 21st, 2006
     00:19:28

     Don’t think I’m impressed with your “5000 articles”, Mr. Pearson. If you really had a strong case, you would need only one. Not that you gave references for any of them, so technically, you gave use zero articles.

128. 
     Matthew Pearson
     January 23rd, 2006
     14:38:09

     “In amongst those 5000 Matthew, did you happen across any science that indicates a causative link between thiomersal and autism?”

     Yes, the science is rather overwhelming to be honest. If you bothered to read the REAL science, and not just nodd to the pharamaceutical propaganda, you should really be able to change your mind. I recommend following sites:

     The unreleased Tom Verstraeten study: [url]http://209.245.59.30/Gimme/84823685/1087030207/63140316/B731D00E-5289-41AE-A471-F6931B9ECF4E/0.380591/3/Verstraetencdcunreleasedstudy2000.pdf[/url]

     [url]http://uninformedconsent.com[/url]

     [url]http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/thimstudys.htm[/url]

     And why don’t take a peek of what are happening inside your daughter’s brain [url]http://www.iaomt.org/[/url]

     I personally recommend the work of Dr. Boyd Haley and Dr. Mark and David Geier. Take a serious read on the studys of the Geiers’ about the testosterone aspect of autism spectrum disorder.

129. 
     HN
     January 23rd, 2006
     18:01:56

     AltCorp is Boyd Haley’s business… he promotes chelation in it to put cash into his wallet. It is not real science, it is marketing.

     Mark and David Geier also do not do real science (and their papers were among the 59 listed in PubMed). Their company, MedCon, makes money by working for lawyers.

     You really need to look at the conflict of interests. Because those are just not real science.

130. 
     clone3g
     January 23rd, 2006
     20:56:11

     Dear God, not the testosterone-binds-thimerosal hypothesis. Good one Matthew. Way to cherry pick the worst of the worst. If those are your best examples of real science don’t expect too many changed minds here.

     Serious read….as if.

131. 
     Lynn D
     February 23rd, 2006
     05:57:44

     As a patient of Dr. Buttar’s, I didn’t hear him promise any cures as you say “business of taking money from sick people for his promise of cures for a variety of ailments”. His patients that are getting better from their “variety” of ailments are singing his praises! He doesn’t promise anything but delivers everything that his patients pray for and brag about. Bottom line is that his patients are feeling better and it’s killing you, isn’t it? It’s too bad that jealous physicians sitting behind desks are wasting time slamming Dr. Buttar instead of getting out there and actually healing people. What a waste of energy. To be that jealous is really ugly on you.

132. 
     HN
     February 23rd, 2006
     08:19:11

     Who are these jealous physicians? And how do we know he delivers on these “promises”?

     So far we’ve seen the website of one cancer patient who has not improved.

     Why won’t Buttar be part of any scientific evaluation of his methods?

133. 
     Kev
     February 23rd, 2006
     09:56:09

     Lynne – I’m not a physician. Neither have I seen any evidence for any of his ‘patients’ either recovering from cancer, becoming younger or not being autistic.

134. 
     Kev
     February 23rd, 2006
     23:47:50

     Lynn D?

135. 
     Lynn D
     February 24th, 2006
     02:33:58

     Kev,
     Where did you look for the “evidence”? So you’ve only looked on the web for results? It’s obvious that you’ve not persosnally met with or talked to any of his patients. if you had, you would have all the evidence you seek.

136. 
     HN
     February 24th, 2006
     04:39:42

     So why don’t you provide us with this “evidence”? Especially since he seems very reluctant to provide it himself. So far all we’ve seen has had a homeopathic quality—- lots of bluff but very little substance.

137. 
     Kev
     February 24th, 2006
     06:28:26

     As HN says Lynn – cure our ignoble ignorance: show us the evidence.

• Sharyl Attkisson to receive media award
• Redwood City teacher accused of slapping, kicking special needs students
• A Multisite Study of the Clinical Diagnosis of Different Autism Spectrum Disorders
• Yale Daily News: Redefinition of autism sparks concerns
• Transcripts from the GMC hearings
• Estimating the Prevalence of Autism Spectrum Conditions in Adults: Extending the 2007 Adult Psychiatric Morbidity Survey
• Mother Jones: Rep. Dan Burton’s Legacy: Lots of Sick Kids
• Assessment of Studies of Health Outcomes Related to the Recommended Childhood Immunization Schedule
• Joint ASAN-Autism Society Statement on DSM 5
• Generation Rescue’s tax form 990 for 2010

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