Autism Is A Gift

12 Feb

OK – before I start its important for me to confess to a conflict of interest in this matter. As a fresh faced young man, Sigourney Weaver formed part of my Godess Trifecta in that I lusted after her, Gillian Anderson and Geena Davis with equal amounts of teenage/twenties lechery.

Ms Weaver has recently finished filming Snowcake in which she plays an autistic woman whos daughter dies in a car crash. My good friend, the incomparable Autism Diva has written a piece about it here.

During an interview, Ms Weaver said:

“I think we have to begin to see it [autism] as a gift,” she told a news conference. “We may not understand what it’s there for, but if you’re in the presence of someone with autism you learn so much. You learn how to play, you learn how to see things, you learn how to experience things and how jarring the world is.”

I have to say that despite my teenage carnal desires for Ms Weaver (OK, OK, I still have them) I don’t agree with her stating that ‘autism is a gift’. I don’t agree with it for the same reason that I don’t agree with the ‘autism is hell/death sentence/evil/etc’ viewpoint. Both views, taken literally, are misleading and superficial. Its my opinion that autism simply ‘is’. To be autistic is to be autistic. To be right-handed is to be right-handed. To be gay is to be gay. None of the states of being have moral or ethical states associated intrinsically with them and they don’t, in my view, need that status thrust on them either.

That said, its difficult to disagree with the positivity my future bride Ms Weaver brings to the state of being autistic and how we as NT’s can relate to it positively.

As ever though, there’s a bunch of literalists who still can’t see the woods for the trees:

A gift to whom? Surely not the person with autism, or his or her family. Perhaps actresses in search of roles? If autism is a gift, what’s terminal brain cancer? Hitting the Lotto?

John Gilmore, EoH List.

…If I sent her a letter I think that it would be along the lines of telling her how very happy it would make me to have her experience this ‘gift’ in her own life, ie, by injecting HER with enough toxins to destroy her body and mind.

Robin Nemeth, EoH List.

Ms. Weaver is no doubt confused over the junk label “high functioning autism.” It is not too late for her to personally experience the joy of autism. I’m sure she could find one of those mercury lusting doctors to shoot her up enough Thimerosal for her to join the bandwagon of the neurologically injured. OK, that’s my sarcastic take.

Lenny Schafer, EoH List.

What a bunch of me-me’s. These are the people who refer to themselves, with no apparent irony, as the autism community.

However, there was one great post on EoH which I have pleasure in quoting in full:

Well, even though I know this is gonna open a can of worms, I agree with her. When I’m in the presence of people with autism, I do learn a great deal. I learn acceptance of others who I would not have accepted as people only a few years ago. I learn that the person with autism has just as much dignity and right to be respected as anyone else. I also learn what pure love is and how scary it is for people with autism to trust others because they are often ridiculed by others. I teach my daughter every day that having autism should be source of pride; to contrast, it certainly isn’t something she should be ashamed
of. Yes we work on healing her body, but I’m proud of her and want her to have pride in herself regardless of treatment status. Because people with autism can suffer with horrid medical conditions and the people who care from them suffer does not mean people with autism are not wonderful people. From what I read, that’s the meaning I got from her, that people with autism need love, respect, and acceptance.

Debi, EoH List.

Debi, if you ever read this, you may be alarmed to know that you’re frighteningly close to espousing something very very close to what I think of as neurodiversity. Good on you for seeing the bigger picture.

Then we swung back to comedy:

Well, she’s just an actress…and unfortunately, we place too much value on the opinions of actors in this country.

Erik Nanstiel, EoH List.

Something of an irony when one considers that in the EoH file repository is a document that contains the sentence:

Finally, for the ultimate inspiration, here is a video of actor Lou Diamond Phillips introducting a cast of recovered autistic children

EoH Files.

Many people on the EoH list suggested emailing the films writer Angela Pell to let her know that she obviously had no idea about the hell of autism. Apparently they missed the bit where Ms Pell is described as having an autistic son and therefore knows just as well as they do both the lowpoints and the highpoints of parenting an autistic child.

And you are the parent of a child diagnosed with autism, everyday you are immersed in your child’s life and you deal
with the hardships that come with autism. You have a right to say that. Weaver doesn’t. Weaver is talking about what other people can get out of people with autism. She is not part of our community, she hasn’t paid her dues.

John Gilmore, EoH List.

Just to reiterate for the hard of comprehension – Ms Weaver is an actress, playing a role written for her by someone _just like you_ – the parent of an autistic child. All the words she utters were put in her mouth by the writer. Her beliefs have come from interacting with Ms Pell, Ms Pell’s son and people like him – y’know – autistic people.

In the post quoted above Gilmore goes on to say:

Our children are gifts and we should be grateful for them exactly the way they are. This is exactly what the neurodiversity types are saying.

Not quite John. I don’t consider autism a gift or a curse – it simply is what it is. Also, no one is saying you should ignore bad situations. What I’m saying as someone who respects the state of being autistic is that _that’s_ whats important – respect. You don’t have to be grateful for anything other than the fact that you managed to have a healthy living child. Some people don’t even get that. Whining on about ‘its not fair’ is pointless.

Then there’s the usual mistaken identities:

Sigourney Weaver is more than welcome to join me at the IEP meeting at my son’s school. Maybe she can make them understand that my son has been granted the “gift” of a comprehension level of a preschooler when he is 9 years old.

Jane Milota, EoH List

I’m not sure I would consider the way other children treat my son “really good fun”. I wonder if he’s having fun when they pull his hat over his eyes or just grab it off and throw it as far as they can. It’s not “really good fun” for me to try to explain to him that these children are not his friends. Apparently it is “really good fun” for these children that my son does have “high-functioning autism” Maybe Ms. Weaver and Ms. Pell would like to take a trip to Long Island and see “the gift” my son enjoys every day.

Cathie, EoH List.

Both tragic, horrifying situations but *not the fault of autism*. One is the fault of a schools ignorance and one is the fault of bad parenting by the people Cathie’s son has to deal with.

We really do have to find a way to move away from demonising a state of being that simply is what it is. The fact that its still poorly understood, badly catered to and swept aside is something that parents should be campaigning about – not getting caught up in fictional causative arguments.

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85 Responses to “Autism Is A Gift”

  1. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 21, 2006 at 22:11 #

    SueM…

    Do us all a favour….

    GROW THE FUCK UP!

    Then come and give us things that can be verified, some scientific input…. I really would like to see it.

    From sources which aren’t totally discreditable… reproducable results… properly designed studies (not that crap that Wakefield put out in the Lancet, which – by the way – has cost the Lancet a lot of its credibility since that particular incident!).

    Do that, and I’ll be happy to stop taking the piss out of you, and commence a real dialogue.

    Until then, you’re fair game to have the piss ripped out of you…

  2. Sue M. February 21, 2006 at 22:12 #

    Perfect, David. Good timing. Thank you!

    – Sue M.

  3. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 21, 2006 at 23:48 #

    Welcome, Sue.

    Ijust want to see something of substance… you have yet to do that, and it is sad…. for example, “I know that, and you do…” isn’t going to convince me when the overwhelming majority of the evidence is against that position. You did this one on me, and it doesn’t impress.

    You claim to have gone to a good college, so please, let me see evidence of that.

    Like I say. dialogue I like… it interests me; attempts to coerce, based on statements which have no backing, piss me off.

  4. say what February 22, 2006 at 04:04 #

    Sue: You did post that you would state your educational background. Simply post your degree(s) and school(s) — that’s all. No one is going to berate you over it; it actually may enlighten us all as to your perspective.

  5. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 22, 2006 at 10:40 #

    JBJr once said he had three degrees, reputable colleges… yet his behaviour too was that of someone who’d never even seen a college prospectus, let alone been to studia generalia!

    Me:

    *BA-status* w/ Univ B’ham – upon matriculation as postgraduate psychology student; admitted on basis of 120sw, being equivalent to a BA (Ord) with major in applied psychology (61sw; rest being: mathematical sciences 30sw; archaeology 20sw; and Finnish Language 9sw)… highest performances in applied psychology, indicating potential to have earned a BA (Hons) with Upper Second Class Honours.

    *PgCertSpEd* (Univ B’ham) – in applied educational psychology, specialising in autistic difficulties in adult life; total of 20sw, this award being subsumed into the *MEd* for which I originally registered.

    These can be documented, as can the facts that I have studied at the following universities: Liverpool, Sheffield, Sheffield Hallam, Leeds, Birmingham, Jyväskylä, Oulu, and the Open University. I have also lectured at the following univs: Birmingham, Oulu, Joensuu, and Jyväskylä. I have designed and taught courses for service providers (Asperger-patrol Project in Kerava; Central Park Vocational Institute in Malmi; Kymenlaakso Summer University and Sotek sy), and delivered talks at a number of conferences over the past 8 years that I’ve lived in Finland. I have had a small handful of papers published, and been elected International Associate Editor of the journal Good Autism Practice.

    During the time I have been studying, I have worked on a number of cases involving autistic people, including occupational and psycho-educational assessment (including diagnostics), as well as case review, making recommendations, counselling, teaching and consulting with other professionals (in both health-care and education). In the practical work I do ends up forming the basis of my written work for university, and so my practical skills as an applied educational psychologist are under the same scrutiny as my academic skills in that profession. I am now one of very, very few non-clinical psychologists in Finland who gets referrals from health-care and educational practitioners. I’d say that my expertise isn’t really up for question: it’s just there.

    And, as my chapter in Dinah Murray’s book tells, I did all this despite the schools having totally given up on me, and working against some rather serious learning difficulties and other adverse circumstances. Being autistic has not been an adverse circumstance: being amongst people who couldn’t be arsed to understand me for who I was (and who only wanted me to do “the normal stuff”) definitely was.

    SueM, JBJr, and Kevin Champagne…. your turns now.

  6. Sue M. February 22, 2006 at 14:53 #

    say what wrote:

    “You did post that you would state your educational background. Simply post your degree(s) and school(s)— that’s all. No one is going to berate you over it; it actually may enlighten us all as to your perspective”.

    – Here’s what I wrote previously on this subject, say what:

    “I will say that yes, David, I did go to College. In fact, I went to a well respected College. I even graduated with a decent GPA. I also had a bunch of fun… So, if it is really that important to you (or to anyone else) than I will reveal that College name and forward my transcript… otherwise, just take my word for it”.

    – Did you really think that I would forward my transcript, too? Of course not. Why would I want someone like David to know where I went to college (see his above post)? It is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I’ll also say David is in all probability much smarter than I am. I’m quite sure that he has more degrees than I do (or is on his way)… Big deal. It isn’t to me. If you want to argue that only people with certain educational backgrounds can take place in a discussion about autism/mercury than go ahead… without me.

    – Sue M.

    p.s. If you really cared you could, in fact, find out where I went to college… Let’s see if you’re smart enough to figure it out…

  7. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 22, 2006 at 19:08 #

    Evasion yet again.

    A psychologist can spot these things, SueM.

  8. say what February 22, 2006 at 19:54 #

    I’m very sorry, Sue, but I don’t have the slightest inclination to prove to you if I’m “smart enough”. The issue here was whether or not you, Sue, were going to keep you word.

  9. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 22, 2006 at 20:27 #

    SW…

    Let’s face it. She NEVER keeps her word.

  10. Sue M. February 22, 2006 at 21:06 #

    say what wrote:

    “The issue here was whether or not you, Sue, were going to keep you word”.

    – I guess you got your answer. No, I didn’t keep my word on revealing where I went to College. Again, did you really think that I would forward my transcript? Here’s the thing… would you want some wacko (see above posts) digging into you previous educational background? I don’t…

    – Sue M.

  11. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 22, 2006 at 23:04 #

    “I don’t…”
    – Sue M.

    Funny that.

    I don’t mind it. It helps people to know that I’m not just some prick telling porkies about having an education they don’t have.

    And who would the wacko be? That’s a JBJr word, that is….

  12. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 22, 2006 at 23:10 #

    So, basically…. SueM and JBJr (and Kevin Champagne) don’t rally have much of an education…. which accounts for why they never manage to put up a single piece of verifiable evidence for their hunches…..

  13. Sue M. February 22, 2006 at 23:48 #

    David wrote:

    ” rally ”

    – How much are you paying for that education, David? Get a refund. That wacko would be YOU, of course.

    – Sue M.

  14. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 23, 2006 at 02:07 #

    Um.

    Typo, not spelling.

    “That wacko would be YOU, of course.”

    Um. No.

    Nice try. Too bad you didn’t spot the wacko.

    It’s you.

    Why is it you?

    You don’t even contribute a single piece of information to this blog. You don’t like it when people pick you up on your use of clearly errant logic (you dismiss anyone’s identification of your logical fallacies as if they are rrelevant; you might wish to get a refund on your education… if you really have one). In fact, you get very defensive about it, when you get picked up on fallacy issues, or on the fact that you never provide a single piece of verifiable evidence for anything you say. Instead, you focus on other people’s typos, and try to evade attempts to get anything from you that isn’t pure rhetoric or total non-sequiteur. You have a clearly poor ability to keep to your word (such as the number of times you come back here after saying that you’ve given up on us – or some other petty attempt at a put-down); and you call *me* the wacko? Nah.

    You told me once that you wouldn’t be replying to my posts.

    Are you *that* unable to keep your word? Why? You probably forget, right? SueM, what is your problem? You come here – not for debate – but to wilfully arouse negative affective reactions and to incite rallies of polemic. You have never had a sensible thing to say all the time you have been visiting this place. You don’t even *want* to discuss things. If you did, the whole tone of my input would be very different, I can tell you.

    You have a problem being identified for what you are: a troll. You have a problem with being reminded that you produce nothing of any quality here, and that your “sources” are at best laughable, and at worst damned dangerous. You have issues with being told that your arguments are totally fallacious. And, as I say, you’re calling *me* the wacko.

    You need to get a refund from the shrink who passed you as being well-adjusted. The fucker lied to you.

  15. Anne February 23, 2006 at 04:52 #

    Sue M. said: “No, I didn’t keep my word on revealing where I went to College. Again, did you really think that I would forward my transcript? Here’s the thing… would you want some wacko (see above posts) digging into you previous educational background? I don’t …”

    I can only assume that Sue does not practice a profession in which her educational credentials are relevant. Many of us who do are required to make our credentials available to the public, wackos notwithstanding.

    Sue, if you want to reveal where you went to college, you may do so without forwarding your transcript. However, it doesn’t really matter, since you do not appear to claim any expertise by way of training or education. If you were a psychologist working in the field of autism, that would be different.

    As far as I know, Sue is a mother of three, none of whom are professionally diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder. Ostensibly Sue posts here here to tell the world about neurotoxins and the government-pharmaceutical complex, but I can see through that. She just can’t resist coming around and receiving a little of the gift of autism. I don’t blame you, Sue. Everybody should know some autistic people.

    I know that Sue has mother’s intuition. I told my son that I have it, too. He said, “Wait a minute, that’s just random guessing!” Hah.

  16. Sue M. February 23, 2006 at 14:36 #

    Anne wrote:

    “Many of us who do are required to make our credentials available to the public, wackos notwithstanding”.

    – To a blog website of random wackos? Ok, Anne. You do that.

    Anne wrote:

    “As far as I know, Sue is a mother of three, none of whom are professionally diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder”.

    – This is true. My son was diagnosed with “sensory integration disorder” which from what I can tell is quite possibly just a bogus “diagnosis” of damage due to thimerosal. Quite literally, he began displaying these sensory issues, along with some other issues a short time after receiving a flu vaccination in the fall of 2003.

    I hope that some of you will continue to lurk on EoH. That is what this blog has become … a place where Kev can jot down the quotes from EoH for comment. It’s good though. I believe that you will actually learn something there. You will also be kept up to date on everything that comes out on this matter. That’s what I’ve wanted from the beginning. I hope that at some point a few of you will actually be able to stop lurking and enter the light of discussion. Show some strength in your convictions.

    – Sue M.

  17. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 23, 2006 at 16:47 #

    SueM: “Show some strength in your convictions.”

    You talk like you do here and that is what you say to someone else?

    You have any proof for your assertions, SueM? Do you have any *reliable* lab results, for example?

  18. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 23, 2006 at 16:50 #

    SueM: “If you want to argue that only people with certain educational backgrounds can take place in a discussion about autism/mercury than go ahead… without me.”

    Funny what you find time to make up, isn’t it?

    At no point has it ever been posed that only certain educational backgrounds qualify one to contribute to this sort of discussion. Nobody has argued that… your text there, then, is a straw man fallacy.

    Can you not see why it is important to know what these are, now? It’s all you come up with, SueM.

  19. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 23, 2006 at 16:51 #

    And, indeed SueM, that’s how we got onto the whole educational background thing.

  20. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 23, 2006 at 18:45 #

    SueM: “My son was diagnosed with ‘sensory integration disorder’ which from what I can tell is quite possibly just a bogus ‘diagnosis’ of damage due to thimerosal.”

    Now she’s talking.

    Sensory Integration Disorder is, indeed, listed as a *dubious* diagnosis (http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/sid.html), and – according to Heilbroner – the whole thing may well be something relating to “neurodevelopmental immaturity”, and I refer SueM to this paragraph in particular:

    *quote:* It should be remembered that most children develop and improve their behavior spontaneously. Given the fact that few (if any) adult patients have sensory integration disorder, it is reasonable to question whether costly interventions are really necessary for what is a most likely a self-limiting problem of neurodevelopmental immaturity and anxiety. I also believe that children or families whose behavioral or anxiety disorders could benefit treatment would be better off seeking standard treatment than wasting time and money on unproven or irrational approaches.*/quote*

    Seriously, SueM… you may well wish to think that paragraph over. As to the thimerosal connection, personally I am not convinced of one, and I would quite honestly say that – if you feel that there is an autism diagnosis that *could* be made for your son – then you need to collect evidence to support that diagnosis and present it to a clinician pretty systematically in order for the characteristics to stand out correctly to that person. Again, I can’t see anything evidential of thimerosal poisoning in the autism thing; but here I am speaking specifically about the autism issues and your dissatisfaction at the “SID” dx (which I must confess I would be unhappy about for my own daughter).

  21. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) February 23, 2006 at 18:46 #

    */quote* trying as *endquote* for next time i do a block quote….

  22. clone3g February 23, 2006 at 19:52 #

    Sue,
    I thought you were all about mercury causing autism and now you are telling us none of your children are autistic? Didn’t you also say that you have an unvaccinated child with speech delays? Let me see if I have this straight, celiac sprue/gluten intolerance, diabetes, sensory integration disorder, speech delay, etc., are all forms of mercury poisoning? Anything else you’d like to add to that list?

    Not to make light of any of those disorders but where the hell do you get off spreading lies about people with autism with no first hand experience?

    Do you even know the biological mechanisms of celiac or diabetes? Tell me how thimerosal could cause either one of those disorders and I hope it has nothing to do with all of the ways it’s supposed to cause autism. On that subject, how common is diabetes in the autistic population?

  23. HN February 24, 2006 at 07:12 #

    Kind of “out of the blue”… this week I watched “To Kill a Mockingbird”. There is a character played by Robert Duvall (his first movie role!). Is this character a description of an autistic person, or someone who was allergic to sunlight?

    The DVD has a documentary that interviews people who lived in the town that Harper Lee lived in… and that particular character was a real person that they remembered.

  24. Jannalou February 24, 2006 at 08:20 #

    The book never says. (Movie based on book. I read the book when I was in grade 8 and I’ve seen the movie, as well.) My impression was that Boo Radley was mentally retarded (like, brain damaged or somesuch) and his mother kept him hidden away so that he could only come out at night. Something like that, anyway. It’s been a while, and I doubt my novel study worksheets have any real information on the character.

  25. Sue M. February 24, 2006 at 14:51 #

    Clone wrote:

    “I thought you were all about mercury causing autism and now you are telling us none of your children are autistic”?.

    – Right. My son was diagnosed with sensory integration disorder. He started to display signs of this bogus disorder shortly after receiving a thimerosal-containing flu vaccine. Do you have a problem with someone without a diagnosed “autistic” child being in this debate? How old is your child? What is his/her diagnosis? What about Jonathan?

    Clone wrote:

    “Didn’t you also say that you have an unvaccinated child with speech delays”?

    – Nope. Go back and read again – very carefully. I have a child who I stopped vaccinating after his four month vacc’s (he also had hep B at BIRTH) . He was also unlucky enough to be in my womb when I received a thimerosal-containing vaccination in the fall of 2003. I had a flu shot the fall before that as well. Of course there were also the 6 Rhogam shots (at least 4 of which contained thimerosal) that I had in 4 years prior to his birth. To answer your question about the speech delay. Yes, we are watching it. I’m not overly concerned at this point. The rest of his development is right on or ahead. Ped thinks he’s a few months behind. Basically has only single words not stringing words together and fewer that would be expected at his age of 2.1 years. Thanks for asking.

    Clone wrote:

    “Not to make light of any of those disorders but where the hell do you get off spreading lies about people with autism with no first hand experience”?

    – Can you elaborate on these lies that I have been spreading about people with autism? I’m interested in hearing them. That’s a bit too vague of an attack (even from you)”.

    Clone wrote:

    “Do you even know the biological mechanisms of celiac or diabetes? Tell me how thimerosal could cause either one of those disorders and I hope it has nothing to do with all of the ways it’s supposed to cause autism”.

    – Well it’s certainly possibly given autoimmunity issues/mercury. The main focus now is on autism, though. Once those flood waters are fully released, I’m sure that there will be more studies done on “other disorders”.
    – Sue M.

  26. clone3g February 24, 2006 at 16:45 #

    Sue M. said: – Can you elaborate on these lies that I have been spreading about people with autism?

    followed by: Well it’s certainly possibly given autoimmunity issues/mercury. The main focus now is on autism, though. Once those flood waters are fully released, I’m sure that there will be more studies done on “other disorders”.

    Again saving me the trouble of searching very far. (I apologize for drifting from the main focus)

    I know you try to be careful when it comes to making precise statements like “thimerosal causes autism” but I’m sure you’ve said things along those lines if I were to search a little. doesn’t matter though because your position and inferences are quite clear if not blatant lies.

    I know you think it’s “possibly given autoimmunity issues/mercury” but saying things like that when you aren’t able to show how, or present evidence, is a form of lying.

    Now about my child or Jonathon, since I am not holding up my personal experience or anecdotes as evidence, I see no reason to share personal information. Being a parent doesn’t give me the right to violate the privacy of another individual and human being. I also can’t speak for or about Jonathon.

    Now if your child started to “display signs of a bogus disorder shortly after receiving a thimerosal-containing flu vaccine”, how would a diagnosis you don’t accept as valid be connected to the thimerosal content of the vaccine? How shortly after?

  27. Sue M. February 24, 2006 at 19:34 #

    Clone wrote:

    “I know you think it’s “possibly given autoimmunity issues/mercury” but saying things like that when you aren’t able to show how, or present evidence, is a form of lying.”

    – There is certainly a lot of evidence out there which indicates that mercury may trigger an autoimmune response. Those studies have been linked here and are out there for you to read up on. The fact that you don’t believe it … does not mean that I am lying (in any form). However, if you would like to call me a liar… I can’t stop you. Why don’t you link to a cute picture of a little boy (you) on the playground calling out “liar, liar pants on fire”. You are the master of those hyperlinks :) .

    Clone wrote:

    “Being a parent doesn’t give me the right to violate the privacy of another individual and human being”.

    – I agree with this to an extent. The huge problem is that simply telling your doctor about your child’s “issues” is not quite cutting it. Hint: THEY’RE NOT LISTENING. It is unfortunate maybe that we as parents are forced to relay bad experiences to alert the public.

    – Sue M.

  28. clone3g February 24, 2006 at 20:51 #

    Sue M. There is certainly a lot of evidence out there which indicates that mercury may trigger an autoimmune response.

    Ahh, I see. So because a few disorders fall in to the category of autoimmune, and mercury can trigger autoimmunity, then the mercury might cause any or all autoimmune disorders?

    Well it’s certainly possibly given autoimmunity issues/mercury. The main focus now is on autism, though. Once those flood waters are fully released, I’m sure that there will be more studies done on “other disorders”.
    Shouldn’t that be Tsunami?

    One question for you just to stay with the main focus: Is autism an autoimmune disorder?

    Oh, and I’m sorry your doctors don’t listen to you. My doctors listen to me. I wonder why that is.

  29. Sue M. February 24, 2006 at 21:46 #

    Clone wrote:

    “then the mercury might cause any or all autoimmune disorders”?

    – Yeah, it MIGHT… (probably not in ALL cases, but many).

    Clone wrote:

    “Shouldn’t that be Tsunami”?

    – Sure. That works too.

    Clone wrote:

    “One question for you just to stay with the main focus: Is autism an autoimmune disorder”?

    – Have you been reading the science from “our side”? I know that you don’t agree with it… but you need to KEEP UP if your going to pretend to be informed.

    Clone wrote:

    “Oh, and I’m sorry your doctors don’t listen to you. My doctors listen to me. I wonder why that is”.

    – Maybe because you don’t have a child with autism or any other medical concerns. Or it could be because you agree with them that the whole mercury/thimerosal/autism thing is just a load of bunk. It’s easy to listen to people who completely agree with you… much harder when you are shaking their very core. By the way, I have found a great doctor now. He listens, has made suggestions on vaccinations to me with my youngest but has allowed me to make up my own mind and respects my opinion….

    – Sue M.

  30. clone3g February 24, 2006 at 22:11 #

    Have you been reading the science from “our side”?

    I read a lot of science publications but you’ll have to point out the science coming from “your side.”

    It’s so well camouflaged with make-believe biology and random medical jargon I may have missed it. Is it hiding under a mercury-testosterone sheet somewhere? I’m sorry if I’m not Altistic enough to recognize what you call science .

    Does this science say anything about autism being an autoimmune disorder?

  31. Sue M. February 24, 2006 at 22:30 #

    Clone wrote:

    “Does this science say anything about autism being an autoimmune disorder”?

    – Are you telling me that the idea of autism being associated with an autoimmune response is news to you? I’m surprised if so… Really? That’s not to say that everyone on “my side” believes this but for you to seem so oblivious to this research is surprising to me. I thought that you were more well-versed than that.

    – Sue M.

  32. clone3g February 24, 2006 at 23:21 #

    Of course I am aware of research suggesting an autoimmune component but it is far from proven and certainly not by anything coming from ‘your side’ of the fence. You can try to claim any research as coming from your side but the people doing the work may disagree. In fact I think a few of them already have.

    The reason I ask about autism as an autoimmune disorder is your statement that mercury causes autoimmune disorders including autism. You said it so it’s up to you to explain it.

    Mercury can trigger autoimmunity but there are many flavors of autoimmunity. For your statement to be close to accurate, you should be able to show that mercury can cause the types of autoimmunity associated with your list of diseases, then you will need to show that autism is an autoimmune disorder and mercury can cause the same type of autoimmunity, and that’s just for starters.

    This shouldn’t be too difficult with all of the science coming from your side. Let us know what you come up with. Until then statements like yours are the opposite of truth. In other words….LIES

    Anti-vax lies to be specific.

  33. Sue M. February 24, 2006 at 23:51 #

    Clone wrote:

    “The reason I ask about autism as an autoimmune disorder is your statement that mercury causes autoimmune disorders including autism”.

    – Did I really word it that way? Is this a direct quote of mine?
    Just wondering.

    – Sue M.

  34. McLoren April 29, 2006 at 10:52 #

    “Autism is a gift”

    LOL! It doesn’t get much more phatetic then that.
    1+1= 3

    HEIL ELI LILY!

  35. Kev April 29, 2006 at 13:09 #

    Matthew – so far you’ve invented three seperate persona’s to make totally idiotic pronouncement such as the one above.

    A word to the wise – I don’t care about people posting anonymously but at least _try_ and have something substantive to offer.

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