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	<title>Comments on: David Kirby&#8217;s Causation Trail</title>
	<atom:link href="http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/02/david-kirbys-causation-trail/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/02/david-kirbys-causation-trail/</link>
	<description>Autism news and opinion</description>
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		<title>By: anonimouse</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/02/david-kirbys-causation-trail/#comment-32202</link>
		<dc:creator>anonimouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=508#comment-32202</guid>
		<description>Prometheus,

This is why armchair pseudo-intellectual posers like the mercury militia should not attempt to publish science or comment on it.  The Bernard article was a classic example of picking a few common symptoms from column A and column B and saying &quot;AHA!  Mercury poisoning looks like autism!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prometheus,</p>
<p>This is why armchair pseudo-intellectual posers like the mercury militia should not attempt to publish science or comment on it.  The Bernard article was a classic example of picking a few common symptoms from column A and column B and saying &#8220;AHA!  Mercury poisoning looks like autism!&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Ruth</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/02/david-kirbys-causation-trail/#comment-32052</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 03:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=508#comment-32052</guid>
		<description>If Hg causes autism, Iraq and Japan should have the highest rates.  The region of Japan where Minamata Bay is has no higher rate of autism (as defined by their criteria) than any other region in Japan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Hg causes autism, Iraq and Japan should have the highest rates.  The region of Japan where Minamata Bay is has no higher rate of autism (as defined by their criteria) than any other region in Japan.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Prometheus</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/02/david-kirbys-causation-trail/#comment-32049</link>
		<dc:creator>Prometheus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 03:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=508#comment-32049</guid>
		<description>One point that needs to be made - not about Kev&#039;s excellent post, but about some of the commentary that swirls around it - is that there is a huge elephant in the room that none of the mercury-causes-autism proponents want to talk about:

Nobody has yet shown that mercury can cause autism.

Nope. Nobody.

They have deflected attention from that point by their assertions that mercury is a known neurotoxin. That is true. It is so well known that the signs and symptoms of mercury poisoning have been well-documented. Strangely, autism or autistic-like traits are not seen in mercury poisoning.

What &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; the prominent signs of mercury poisoning, you ask?

[1] Tremor. This is such a predictable and consistent finding in even early mercury poisoning that it can be used (by examining handwriting samples) to determine &lt;i&gt;when&lt;/i&gt; the poisoning began. It is also a key factor in many of the early-detection tests for mercury poisoning.

[2] Loss of coordination. This isn&#039;t merely being clumsy, but is an inability to perform rapid, repetitive motions. Like flapping and spinning.

[3] Pressured speech. Talking too much and swerving wildly from one topic to another. &lt;i&gt;Not&lt;/i&gt; perseverating on a single topic or a narrow range of topics.

Many in the mercury-causes-autism &quot;movement&quot; speak and act as if the connection between autism and mercury was a &quot;done deal&quot;, but that could not be any farther from the truth. 

Don&#039;t let them get away with pretending that they have made the connection as they try to weasel away from blaming vaccines and onto blaming &quot;mercury exposure&quot;. Until they can show that mercury can cause autism - at a high dose, low dose or intermediate dose - they haven&#039;t got a leg to stand on.


Prometheus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One point that needs to be made &#8211; not about Kev&#8217;s excellent post, but about some of the commentary that swirls around it &#8211; is that there is a huge elephant in the room that none of the mercury-causes-autism proponents want to talk about:</p>
<p>Nobody has yet shown that mercury can cause autism.</p>
<p>Nope. Nobody.</p>
<p>They have deflected attention from that point by their assertions that mercury is a known neurotoxin. That is true. It is so well known that the signs and symptoms of mercury poisoning have been well-documented. Strangely, autism or autistic-like traits are not seen in mercury poisoning.</p>
<p>What <i>are</i> the prominent signs of mercury poisoning, you ask?</p>
<p>[1] Tremor. This is such a predictable and consistent finding in even early mercury poisoning that it can be used (by examining handwriting samples) to determine <i>when</i> the poisoning began. It is also a key factor in many of the early-detection tests for mercury poisoning.</p>
<p>[2] Loss of coordination. This isn&#8217;t merely being clumsy, but is an inability to perform rapid, repetitive motions. Like flapping and spinning.</p>
<p>[3] Pressured speech. Talking too much and swerving wildly from one topic to another. <i>Not</i> perseverating on a single topic or a narrow range of topics.</p>
<p>Many in the mercury-causes-autism &#8220;movement&#8221; speak and act as if the connection between autism and mercury was a &#8220;done deal&#8221;, but that could not be any farther from the truth.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t let them get away with pretending that they have made the connection as they try to weasel away from blaming vaccines and onto blaming &#8220;mercury exposure&#8221;. Until they can show that mercury can cause autism &#8211; at a high dose, low dose or intermediate dose &#8211; they haven&#8217;t got a leg to stand on.</p>
<p>Prometheus</p>
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		<title>By: sploobie</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/02/david-kirbys-causation-trail/#comment-32047</link>
		<dc:creator>sploobie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 02:22:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=508#comment-32047</guid>
		<description>&quot;Mr. Hooker. I donâ€™t remember ever posting any information about you on autismweb.com forum.&quot;

Ms. Clark,

If you don&#039;t go by the pseudonym, &quot;Ghrelin&quot; then you didn&#039;t post anything about me that I know of.  If indeed that is the case, I sincerely apologize.

Brian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mr. Hooker. I don&#226;&#8364;&#8482;t remember ever posting any information about you on autismweb.com forum.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ms. Clark,</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t go by the pseudonym, &#8220;Ghrelin&#8221; then you didn&#8217;t post anything about me that I know of.  If indeed that is the case, I sincerely apologize.</p>
<p>Brian</p>
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		<title>By: MarÃ­a LujÃ¡n</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/02/david-kirbys-causation-trail/#comment-32043</link>
		<dc:creator>MarÃ­a LujÃ¡n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 00:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=508#comment-32043</guid>
		<description>Yes. Being this KevÂ´s blog I think e-mail is adequate.
My e-mail is ferreiramaralujn@yahoo.com.
Thank you for your interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. Being this Kev&#194;&#180;s blog I think e-mail is adequate.<br />
My e-mail is <a href="mailto:ferreiramaralujn@yahoo.com">ferreiramaralujn@yahoo.com</a>.<br />
Thank you for your interest.</p>
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		<title>By: sploobie</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/02/david-kirbys-causation-trail/#comment-32039</link>
		<dc:creator>sploobie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 23:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=508#comment-32039</guid>
		<description>Sure Maria,

What is the best way to share them - email?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure Maria,</p>
<p>What is the best way to share them &#8211; email?</p>
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		<title>By: MarÃ­a LujÃ¡n</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/02/david-kirbys-causation-trail/#comment-32038</link>
		<dc:creator>MarÃ­a LujÃ¡n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 23:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=508#comment-32038</guid>
		<description>Hi sploobie and isles
Are you interested on some comments about Dr Deth and Dr Burbacher manuscripts?
Please let me know</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi sploobie and isles<br />
Are you interested on some comments about Dr Deth and Dr Burbacher manuscripts?<br />
Please let me know</p>
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		<title>By: sploobie</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/02/david-kirbys-causation-trail/#comment-32037</link>
		<dc:creator>sploobie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 23:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=508#comment-32037</guid>
		<description>Thank you - I agree...  It&#039;s great to chat without inflammatory rhetoric.

In the advent of post-genomic, point-of-care medicine, the best thing to do for any malady is to get a full battery of laboratory tests.  It&#039;s too easy on either side of the debate to say what does or doesn&#039;t cause &quot;autism&quot; rather than finding the issues that are pertinent for that particular child or adult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you &#8211; I agree&#8230;  It&#8217;s great to chat without inflammatory rhetoric.</p>
<p>In the advent of post-genomic, point-of-care medicine, the best thing to do for any malady is to get a full battery of laboratory tests.  It&#8217;s too easy on either side of the debate to say what does or doesn&#8217;t cause &#8220;autism&#8221; rather than finding the issues that are pertinent for that particular child or adult.</p>
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		<title>By: isles</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/02/david-kirbys-causation-trail/#comment-32036</link>
		<dc:creator>isles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 22:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=508#comment-32036</guid>
		<description>Which might be enough to raise concerns in cautious people.  (Bartholomew Cubbins raised some other criticisms of this study; I don&#039;t remember well enough to restate them.  I will stipulate for purposes of this post that thimerosal causes a bit of inorganic mercury to get stuck in the brain.)

Those cautious people might want to do a study...maybe compare whether people who have been exposed to thimerosal more commonly develop autism or other neurodevelopmental disorders than people who were never exposed to it.

Is there another way to determine whether it&#039;s actually injurious to have this speck of inorganic mercury resident in the brain?  You would think that taking out half a person&#039;s brain would be inconsistent with life - but actually, hemispherectomies are done quite successfully.  You would think shooting a laser into the brain would be catastrophic, but it&#039;s actually an elegant way of doing surgery.  The point is, even if you assume mercury is resident in the brain, there&#039;s no reason to jump to the conclusion that autism is the result.  We have plenty of human subjects on which this question has, in effect, been tested.  More thimerosal just doesn&#039;t turn out to make for more autism.  Otherwise we&#039;d be seeing much less autism in the population today.

I don&#039;t imagine you&#039;re going to change your stance, but it&#039;s been oddly nice having this exchange.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which might be enough to raise concerns in cautious people.  (Bartholomew Cubbins raised some other criticisms of this study; I don&#8217;t remember well enough to restate them.  I will stipulate for purposes of this post that thimerosal causes a bit of inorganic mercury to get stuck in the brain.)</p>
<p>Those cautious people might want to do a study&#8230;maybe compare whether people who have been exposed to thimerosal more commonly develop autism or other neurodevelopmental disorders than people who were never exposed to it.</p>
<p>Is there another way to determine whether it&#8217;s actually injurious to have this speck of inorganic mercury resident in the brain?  You would think that taking out half a person&#8217;s brain would be inconsistent with life &#8211; but actually, hemispherectomies are done quite successfully.  You would think shooting a laser into the brain would be catastrophic, but it&#8217;s actually an elegant way of doing surgery.  The point is, even if you assume mercury is resident in the brain, there&#8217;s no reason to jump to the conclusion that autism is the result.  We have plenty of human subjects on which this question has, in effect, been tested.  More thimerosal just doesn&#8217;t turn out to make for more autism.  Otherwise we&#8217;d be seeing much less autism in the population today.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t imagine you&#8217;re going to change your stance, but it&#8217;s been oddly nice having this exchange.</p>
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		<title>By: sploobie</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/02/david-kirbys-causation-trail/#comment-32034</link>
		<dc:creator>sploobie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 22:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinleitch.co.uk/wp/?p=508#comment-32034</guid>
		<description>The issue that Burbacher pointed out was the longer half-life of inorganic Hg in thimerosal exposed macaques.  The half-life was evidently too long to be determined within the study time period.  It eclipsed the half-lives of organic MeHg, inorganic Hg in the methyl group and organic EtHg from thimerosal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue that Burbacher pointed out was the longer half-life of inorganic Hg in thimerosal exposed macaques.  The half-life was evidently too long to be determined within the study time period.  It eclipsed the half-lives of organic MeHg, inorganic Hg in the methyl group and organic EtHg from thimerosal.</p>
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