Comments on: Jerry Kartzinel’s Attack on the Dignity of Autistic People and their Families http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/09/jerry-kartzinels-attack-on-the-dignity-of-autistic-people-and-their-families/ Autism news and opinion Fri, 12 Mar 2010 04:36:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: bullet http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/09/jerry-kartzinels-attack-on-the-dignity-of-autistic-people-and-their-families/#comment-44884 bullet Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:55:14 +0000 http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=663#comment-44884 Fully agree with Mandyque. I am not striving to make my son NT, to say that if he thinks and communicates and perceives things as he does there is something wrong with him, I am helping him as a parent would help any child, to learn and develop at his own pace and to find ways of doing things, however he might do them, that will help him as an adult. Fully agree with Mandyque. I am not striving to make my son NT, to say that if he thinks and communicates and perceives things as he does there is something wrong with him, I am helping him as a parent would help any child, to learn and develop at his own pace and to find ways of doing things, however he might do them, that will help him as an adult.

]]> By: mandyque http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/09/jerry-kartzinels-attack-on-the-dignity-of-autistic-people-and-their-families/#comment-44881 mandyque Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:51:47 +0000 http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=663#comment-44881 My daughter has learned to hug and kiss, she has learned that a hug can be comforting if she has hurt herself or is upset. She has learned that bringing me an empty dish makes me go into the kitchen and get her some food. She has learned the movements involved to learn how to swim, although she hasn't mastered it yet. She knows that she can have chocolate at the shop if she gives the person at the counter one of those shiny metal things (a coin). She has learned lots and lots and lots of things, due to being taught at home and school. But she is still severely autistic. Learning stuff doesn't make you less autistic, IMHO, it just helps you to get by in this world. And let's face it, someobdy with an ASD needs to be able to cope with the outside world if they are to have their basic needs fulfilled. So I, as her mum, endeavour to teach her as much as she can possibly learn to be as independent as possible, however little that may be in the future. But I don't think she will ever be 'less autistic'. I think it is more likely to be 'more able to cope with the NT world'. My daughter has learned to hug and kiss, she has learned that a hug can be comforting if she has hurt herself or is upset. She has learned that bringing me an empty dish makes me go into the kitchen and get her some food. She has learned the movements involved to learn how to swim, although she hasn’t mastered it yet. She knows that she can have chocolate at the shop if she gives the person at the counter one of those shiny metal things (a coin). She has learned lots and lots and lots of things, due to being taught at home and school. But she is still severely autistic. Learning stuff doesn’t make you less autistic, IMHO, it just helps you to get by in this world. And let’s face it, someobdy with an ASD needs to be able to cope with the outside world if they are to have their basic needs fulfilled. So I, as her mum, endeavour to teach her as much as she can possibly learn to be as independent as possible, however little that may be in the future.

But I don’t think she will ever be ‘less autistic’. I think it is more likely to be ‘more able to cope with the NT world’.

]]> By: Kev http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/09/jerry-kartzinels-attack-on-the-dignity-of-autistic-people-and-their-families/#comment-44839 Kev Tue, 02 Oct 2007 19:26:10 +0000 http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=663#comment-44839 Reversed Alzheimer’s??? Good grief. Has he got a mate called Lazarus too? Reversed Alzheimer’s??? Good grief. Has he got a mate called Lazarus too?

]]> By: culvercitycynic http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/09/jerry-kartzinels-attack-on-the-dignity-of-autistic-people-and-their-families/#comment-44837 culvercitycynic Tue, 02 Oct 2007 18:51:59 +0000 http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=663#comment-44837 One of Kartzinel's clients says that he claims to have "reversed the Alzheimer's" of either his MIL or FIL, using his version of the DAN! 'protocol'. Perhaps on his next talk show appearance, an interviewer will ask him about this claim. One of Kartzinel’s clients says that he claims to have “reversed the Alzheimer’s” of either his MIL or FIL, using his version of the DAN! ‘protocol’. Perhaps on his next talk show appearance, an interviewer will ask him about this claim.

]]> By: Regan http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/09/jerry-kartzinels-attack-on-the-dignity-of-autistic-people-and-their-families/#comment-44806 Regan Tue, 02 Oct 2007 03:51:26 +0000 http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=663#comment-44806 "“Autism, as I see it, steals the soul from a child; then, if allowed, relentlessly sucks life’s marrow out of the family members, one by one. It relegates every other “normal” thing to utter insignificance.” Sez you. Sure, it's not always a bowl of cherries and sometimes quite complicated but I am more than sick of this kind of pseudo-tragico hyperbole. That it is in the introduction to a piece of pulp fiction seems appropriate. I think we will be rolling our eyes at this when we our out and about running our errands, cooking dinner and reading stories together and carving up the family Jack-O-Lantern...if we bother to think of it at all. ““Autism, as I see it, steals the soul from a child; then, if allowed, relentlessly sucks life’s marrow out of the family members, one by one. It relegates every other “normal” thing to utter insignificance.”

Sez you.
Sure, it’s not always a bowl of cherries and sometimes quite complicated but I am more than sick of this kind of pseudo-tragico hyperbole. That it is in the introduction to a piece of pulp fiction seems appropriate.

I think we will be rolling our eyes at this when we our out and about running our errands, cooking dinner and reading stories together and carving up the family Jack-O-Lantern…if we bother to think of it at all.

]]> By: Ms. Clark http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/09/jerry-kartzinels-attack-on-the-dignity-of-autistic-people-and-their-families/#comment-44805 Ms. Clark Tue, 02 Oct 2007 01:55:56 +0000 http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=663#comment-44805 Todd, Dr. Jang nearly killed a three year old boy with long term overdosing of Vitamin A. He ended up with a swollen out belly and severe liver damage. His doctors were considering whether or not he'd need a liver transplant, as it turned out he did not. If you were not impressed with Jang, there's good reason not to be. Besides the overdosing with Vitamin A, she also recommends "magnetic clay baths" to "detox" or chelate the autism out of the kids. She's bizarre, to say the least. Jenny is more bizarre, and Kartzinel is a deep into quackery. He's been employed at the same place as Wakefield for a few years, first in Florida, then in Texas. If you aren't horrified by Kartzinel and McCarthy, it's because you don't have all the facts. Todd, Dr. Jang nearly killed a three year old boy with long term overdosing of Vitamin A.

He ended up with a swollen out belly and severe liver damage. His doctors were considering whether or not he’d need a liver transplant, as it turned out he did not.

If you were not impressed with Jang, there’s good reason not to be. Besides the overdosing with Vitamin A, she also recommends “magnetic clay baths” to “detox” or chelate the autism out of the kids. She’s bizarre, to say the least.

Jenny is more bizarre, and Kartzinel is a deep into quackery. He’s been employed at the same place as Wakefield for a few years, first in Florida, then in Texas.

If you aren’t horrified by Kartzinel and McCarthy, it’s because you don’t have all the facts.

]]> By: Joseph http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/09/jerry-kartzinels-attack-on-the-dignity-of-autistic-people-and-their-families/#comment-44792 Joseph Mon, 01 Oct 2007 16:52:14 +0000 http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=663#comment-44792 <i>He was speaking (writing) in an exagerated, dramatic way.</i> So in your view, if you're speaking in an exagerated, dramatic way, it is OK to label an entire minority (disabled or otherwise) as 'soul-less'. <i>If left untreated, no special schools, no therpy, you don’t think there is alot of truth to what you took out of context?</i> Explain the context to me. What context explains the quote? And no, there is no truth to it. I've studied the outcome of autistics extensively. Poor outcomes are mostly the result of early unwarranted institutionalization. <i>Do you think for one minute, he is anti-autism? Anti treatment, of any kind?</i> He is anti-autism. He is anti-mainstream treatment of any kind, yes. He says so in the text preceeding the quote (which Mike Stanton has just written about.) The only thing he is for is the treatments he promotes. Which is funny because I don't think Jenny McCarthy buys it. She's spending over $100,000/year in treatments currently considered mainstream. <i>Jenny, Mc., is bringing more media coverage of the condition, and discussing some of the treatments. THIS is Bad? She DOES have a child with Autism.</i> It is bad that she proclaims to know what autism is, how to treat it biomedically and so forth, without so much as testimonials and anecdotes. <i>Double blind, multi location trials. Evidence based, not anecdotal.</i> We agree on something. <i>I found this site, b/c I wanted to look up Dr. Kartzinel, and have him eval my sons urine and blood tests, and see what he thought.</i> I'd research Kartzinel more thoroughly if I were you. Clearly this is someone who is making unsubstantiated statements about autism designed to scare parents into going to him. <i>We are all in this together, all with an Autistic family member, no one has all the answers, and may never have, lets stay positive!</i> All we do around here is to try to counter the negative with positive views. He was speaking (writing) in an exagerated, dramatic way.

So in your view, if you’re speaking in an exagerated, dramatic way, it is OK to label an entire minority (disabled or otherwise) as ‘soul-less’.

If left untreated, no special schools, no therpy, you don’t think there is alot of truth to what you took out of context?

Explain the context to me. What context explains the quote?

And no, there is no truth to it. I’ve studied the outcome of autistics extensively. Poor outcomes are mostly the result of early unwarranted institutionalization.

Do you think for one minute, he is anti-autism? Anti treatment, of any kind?

He is anti-autism. He is anti-mainstream treatment of any kind, yes. He says so in the text preceeding the quote (which Mike Stanton has just written about.) The only thing he is for is the treatments he promotes. Which is funny because I don’t think Jenny McCarthy buys it. She’s spending over $100,000/year in treatments currently considered mainstream.

Jenny, Mc., is bringing more media coverage of the condition, and discussing some of the treatments. THIS is Bad? She DOES have a child with Autism.

It is bad that she proclaims to know what autism is, how to treat it biomedically and so forth, without so much as testimonials and anecdotes.

Double blind, multi location trials. Evidence based, not anecdotal.

We agree on something.

I found this site, b/c I wanted to look up Dr. Kartzinel, and have him eval my sons urine and blood tests, and see what he thought.

I’d research Kartzinel more thoroughly if I were you. Clearly this is someone who is making unsubstantiated statements about autism designed to scare parents into going to him.

We are all in this together, all with an Autistic family member, no one has all the answers, and may never have, lets stay positive!

All we do around here is to try to counter the negative with positive views.

]]> By: Kev http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/09/jerry-kartzinels-attack-on-the-dignity-of-autistic-people-and-their-families/#comment-44788 Kev Mon, 01 Oct 2007 16:20:09 +0000 http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=663#comment-44788 Todd, <a href="http://www.autismwebsite.com/practitioners/us/Jerrold_J._Kartzinel,_M.D..html">Kartzinel is a DAN! doctor</a> just like Miriam Jang. Rumour has it that she managed to hospitalize an autistic child with an overdose of vitamin A. This isn't a case of being bitter. I'm simply and utterly fed up of dehumanising attacks being perpetrated against autistic people by DAN! quacks and their media allies. Todd,

Kartzinel is a DAN! doctor just like Miriam Jang. Rumour has it that she managed to hospitalize an autistic child with an overdose of vitamin A.

This isn’t a case of being bitter. I’m simply and utterly fed up of dehumanising attacks being perpetrated against autistic people by DAN! quacks and their media allies.

]]> By: Todd http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/09/jerry-kartzinels-attack-on-the-dignity-of-autistic-people-and-their-families/#comment-44787 Todd Mon, 01 Oct 2007 16:07:54 +0000 http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=663#comment-44787 Wow, what a group of, I'm at a loss for words. (It's something along the lines of bitter). I think you took his words out of context, I know you did. He too has a child with Autism, (no, I don't know him, don't know of him, but did see the entire LK live episode.) He was speaking (writing) in an exagerated, dramatic way. If left untreated, no special schools, no therpy, you don't think there is alot of truth to what you took out of context? Do you think for one minute, he is anti-autism? Anti treatment, of any kind? Jenny, Mc., is bringing more media coverage of the condition, and discussing some of the treatments. THIS is Bad? She DOES have a child with Autism. I wouldn't be at this site, 'cept for my son with Autism. NOw 6 y/o. I have a Medical Degree and constantly argue with my wife over biomedical treatments, which she uses on our son daily. She found a DAN doctor on the net, Dr. Miriam Jang, ever heard of her? I met her once, on a trip to China, we stopped at her house/office, in San Fran. This was the ONLY time she had ever seen my son. I was NOT impressed! She did NO exam of ANY kind to our Son during the visit! The only visit. My marriage is just about over, largely b/c of the sharp contrast in belief over treatments. I don't believe that non evidence based treatments is good enough for my son. Double blind, multi location trials. Evidence based, not anecdotal. I do advocate all the O.T, P.T. and the private school we have him in. It's pretty much a woderful place, The Westview School, Houston TX. My son, Talks well, has some conversational speech, and social skills are improving, but are delayed. He has a fine motor deficit, and attention deficits. He reads well, he can get you out of a neighborhood you're lost in (he's in the rear booster seat.) We've been blessed that he has no self destructive behavior, and is a wonderful child. He is very obsessive about a variety of things, that change every few weeks, etc. I found this site, b/c I wanted to look up Dr. Kartzinel, and have him eval my sons urine and blood tests, and see what he thought. We are all in this together, all with an Autistic family member, no one has all the answers, and may never have, lets stay positive! Todd, Houston, TX Wow, what a group of, I’m at a loss for words. (It’s something along the lines of bitter).

I think you took his words out of context, I know you did. He too has a child with Autism, (no, I don’t know him, don’t know of him, but did see the entire LK live episode.)

He was speaking (writing) in an exagerated, dramatic way. If left untreated, no special schools, no therpy, you don’t think there is alot of truth to what you took out of context? Do you think for one minute, he is anti-autism? Anti treatment, of any kind?

Jenny, Mc., is bringing more media coverage of the condition, and discussing some of the treatments. THIS is Bad? She DOES have a child with Autism.

I wouldn’t be at this site, ‘cept for my son with Autism. NOw 6 y/o. I have a Medical Degree and constantly argue with my wife over biomedical treatments, which she uses on our son daily.
She found a DAN doctor on the net, Dr. Miriam Jang, ever heard of her? I met her once, on a trip to China, we stopped at her house/office, in San Fran. This was the ONLY time she had ever seen my son. I was NOT impressed! She did NO exam of ANY kind to our Son during the visit! The only visit.

My marriage is just about over, largely b/c of the sharp contrast in belief over treatments. I don’t believe that non evidence based treatments is good enough for my son. Double blind, multi location trials. Evidence based, not anecdotal.

I do advocate all the O.T, P.T. and the private school we have him in. It’s pretty much a woderful place, The Westview School, Houston TX.

My son, Talks well, has some conversational speech, and social skills are improving, but are delayed.
He has a fine motor deficit, and attention deficits. He reads well, he can get you out of a neighborhood you’re lost in (he’s in the rear booster seat.)

We’ve been blessed that he has no self destructive behavior, and is a wonderful child. He is very obsessive about a variety of things, that change every few weeks, etc.

I found this site, b/c I wanted to look up Dr. Kartzinel, and have him eval my sons urine and blood tests, and see what he thought.

We are all in this together, all with an Autistic family member, no one has all the answers, and may never have, lets stay positive!

Todd,
Houston, TX

]]> By: Autism Parents and Celebrity Endorsements « Action For Autism http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2007/09/jerry-kartzinels-attack-on-the-dignity-of-autistic-people-and-their-families/#comment-44764 Autism Parents and Celebrity Endorsements « Action For Autism Sun, 30 Sep 2007 22:58:08 +0000 http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=663#comment-44764 [...] Nice, eh? A typical rant from one of mercury malicia? Not exactly. It is part of the forward to McCarthy’s book. The author is Jerry Kartzinel MD, the medical director of paediatric services at Andrew Wakefield’s Thoughtful House Clinic in Austin, Texas. Their website is down at the moment because it has exceeded its bandwidth. I would like to think their server has been overwhelmed with angry parents seeking to complain about Kartzinel’s dehumanizing comments about autism. But it is more likely that the Jerry and Jenny media roadshow has sent them a whole new raft of hopefuls looking for a magic cure.  There is a lively discussion about Kartzinel’s remarks over on Left Brain/Right Brain. [...] [...] Nice, eh? A typical rant from one of mercury malicia? Not exactly. It is part of the forward to McCarthy’s book. The author is Jerry Kartzinel MD, the medical director of paediatric services at Andrew Wakefield’s Thoughtful House Clinic in Austin, Texas. Their website is down at the moment because it has exceeded its bandwidth. I would like to think their server has been overwhelmed with angry parents seeking to complain about Kartzinel’s dehumanizing comments about autism. But it is more likely that the Jerry and Jenny media roadshow has sent them a whole new raft of hopefuls looking for a magic cure.  There is a lively discussion about Kartzinel’s remarks over on Left Brain/Right Brain. [...]

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