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	<title>Comments on: Autism Recovery</title>
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	<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/autism-recovery/</link>
	<description>Autism news and opinion</description>
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		<title>By: Ms. Clark</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/autism-recovery/#comment-50838</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 20:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=864#comment-50838</guid>
		<description>Catherine Lord is generally seen as the #1  expert on autism diagnosis.  In a presentation I heard her give in Sacramento at a conference she said that of all the autistic kids she&#039;s diagnosed, and followed and re-diagnosed (kids regularly get moved from PDD,nos to Autistic Disorder and vice versa) she knew of one whom she considered to have started out autistic and developed into a very typical kid.  She showed a photo of him and some friends or siblings outside a baseball museum or something.

She didn&#039;t say if the kid had had ABA at all, or floortime or if his parents had biomedded him.  My guess would be that they he had some interventions, but I would guess that no reasonable person would have attributed his change to those treatments.  Lord certainly wasn&#039;t saying, &quot;Here&#039;s what these parents did, I suggest everyone give it a try.&quot;  She made no comment even related to that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Catherine Lord is generally seen as the #1  expert on autism diagnosis.  In a presentation I heard her give in Sacramento at a conference she said that of all the autistic kids she&#8217;s diagnosed, and followed and re-diagnosed (kids regularly get moved from <span class="caps">PDD</span>,nos to Autistic Disorder and vice versa) she knew of one whom she considered to have started out autistic and developed into a very typical kid.  She showed a photo of him and some friends or siblings outside a baseball museum or something.</p>
<p>She didn&#8217;t say if the kid had had <span class="caps">ABA</span> at all, or floortime or if his parents had biomedded him.  My guess would be that they he had some interventions, but I would guess that no reasonable person would have attributed his change to those treatments.  Lord certainly wasn&#8217;t saying, &#8220;Here&#8217;s what these parents did, I suggest everyone give it a try.&#8221;  She made no comment even related to that.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/autism-recovery/#comment-50836</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=864#comment-50836</guid>
		<description>BTW, I&#039;ve previously noted that the AAP&#039;s conclusions, and indeed, the surgeon general of the United States&#039; conclusions regarding ABA were premature. I&#039;m not saying this in the same way a mercury parent might go against authority - based on &quot;gut feeling&quot; for example. The evidence just doesn&#039;t support those conclusions. The point by point argument is &lt;a&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. Harold and everyone else are welcome to outline the problems with the argument. 

This is the gist of it:

&quot;There is a substantial body of Level-II-1 and lower quality evidence that suggests EIBI is an effective treatment approach. However, since there exists Level-I, Level-II-1 and other evidence that EIBI is not terribly effective, and also considering the lack of adult outcome studies, the statements by the Surgeon General of the United States and the American Academy of Pediatrics seem premature. Indeed, the trial which appears to be the most methodologically rigorous to date (Smith et al., 2000) was largely unsuccessful.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="caps">BTW</span>, I&#8217;ve previously noted that the <span class="caps">AAP</span>&#8217;s conclusions, and indeed, the surgeon general of the United States&#8217; conclusions regarding <span class="caps">ABA</span> were premature. I&#8217;m not saying this in the same way a mercury parent might go against authority &#8211; based on &#8220;gut feeling&#8221; for example. The evidence just doesn&#8217;t support those conclusions. The point by point argument is <a>here</a>. Harold and everyone else are welcome to outline the problems with the argument.</p>
<p>This is the gist of it:</p>
<p>&#8220;There is a substantial body of Level-II-1 and lower quality evidence that suggests <span class="caps">EIBI</span> is an effective treatment approach. However, since there exists Level-I, Level-II-1 and other evidence that <span class="caps">EIBI</span> is not terribly effective, and also considering the lack of adult outcome studies, the statements by the Surgeon General of the United States and the American Academy of Pediatrics seem premature. Indeed, the trial which appears to be the most methodologically rigorous to date (Smith et al., 2000) was largely unsuccessful.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Kev</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/autism-recovery/#comment-50835</link>
		<dc:creator>Kev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 18:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=864#comment-50835</guid>
		<description>_&quot;Your concern over the use of the word “recovery” is puzzling. You appear to be OK with AAP member physicians. Are you aware that the AAP Management of Children with Autism Disorders concluded that:&quot;_

Yes.

But before we get into that, I want to know what reason I have for engaging you in debate? 

Whenever you post here it is one post and thten you never respond. You don&#039;t allow my comments on your own blog. Why should I engage you? What is productive about me doing so?

_&quot;Most parents want to help their autistic children and aren’t interested in semantics.&quot;_

Hmmm, not sure thats true. I agree most parents want to help their kids. I am not sure they are not interested ini what _you_ call &#039;semantics&#039; and what I think of as &#039;accurate definition&#039;.

As for the rest of your comment, I&#039;m not sure what point you&#039;re making exactly. Are you saying the AAP definition of recovery is one we should be adhering to?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;Your concern over the use of the word &#8220;recovery&#8221; is puzzling. You appear to be OK with <span class="caps">AAP</span> member physicians. Are you aware that the <span class="caps">AAP </span>Management of Children with Autism Disorders concluded that:&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Yes.</p>
<p>But before we get into that, I want to know what reason I have for engaging you in debate?</p>
<p>Whenever you post here it is one post and thten you never respond. You don&#8217;t allow my comments on your own blog. Why should I engage you? What is productive about me doing so?</p>
<p><em>&#8220;Most parents want to help their autistic children and aren&#8217;t interested in semantics.&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Hmmm, not sure thats true. I agree most parents want to help their kids. I am not sure they are not interested ini what <em>you</em> call &#8216;semantics&#8217; and what I think of as &#8216;accurate definition&#8217;.</p>
<p>As for the rest of your comment, I&#8217;m not sure what point you&#8217;re making exactly. Are you saying the <span class="caps">AAP</span> definition of recovery is one we should be adhering to?</p>
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		<title>By: farmwifetwo</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/autism-recovery/#comment-50833</link>
		<dc:creator>farmwifetwo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 16:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=864#comment-50833</guid>
		<description>Bink - we had to wait until my youngest was 3 to dx him with severe non-verbal PDD. B/c he is social, happy, laid back etc. Then the flapping, touching etc became noticable. We&#039;d been in speech therapy since he was 18mths old. But we couldn&#039;t get that &quot;oh&quot; moment. You know the one where Hellen Keller figures out the sign is &quot;water&quot;. It finally came at 4... and there&#039;s no going back. He&#039;s doing amazing too.

Looking back at pictures with his HUGE bald head. The ignoring of the camera and other things we thought of later... it was very obvious in hindsight. But we were watching for the big signs... the head banging, meltdowns etc of the eldest so, although we knew something was up... they weren&#039;t certain what that &quot;up&quot; was yet.

Also with my eldest first dx was non-verbal mild PDD. Second 6mths later was &quot;speech and language delayed with global delays&quot; b/c they didn&#039;t know where on the spectrum - if he was on the spectrum - he&#039;d be. The dx now reads &quot;a mild form of ASD&quot; - needed to get services of course. But the Dev Ped says he had NVLD w/ S/L delay. Delay being... speech/language is coming and normally... just delayed. Now... he&#039;s pretty much NVLD... bugger when they master sarcasm and little white lies and you cheer b/c they made the milestone and groan b/c now you have to discipline it :)

S.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bink &#8211; we had to wait until my youngest was 3 to dx him with severe non-verbal <span class="caps">PDD</span>. B/c he is social, happy, laid back etc. Then the flapping, touching etc became noticable. We&#8217;d been in speech therapy since he was 18mths old. But we couldn&#8217;t get that &#8220;oh&#8221; moment. You know the one where Hellen Keller figures out the sign is &#8220;water&#8221;. It finally came at 4&#8230; and there&#8217;s no going back. He&#8217;s doing amazing too.</p>
<p>Looking back at pictures with his <span class="caps">HUGE</span> bald head. The ignoring of the camera and other things we thought of later&#8230; it was very obvious in hindsight. But we were watching for the big signs&#8230; the head banging, meltdowns etc of the eldest so, although we knew something was up&#8230; they weren&#8217;t certain what that &#8220;up&#8221; was yet.</p>
<p>Also with my eldest first dx was non-verbal mild <span class="caps">PDD</span>. Second 6mths later was &#8220;speech and language delayed with global delays&#8221; b/c they didn&#8217;t know where on the spectrum &#8211; if he was on the spectrum &#8211; he&#8217;d be. The dx now reads &#8220;a mild form of <span class="caps">ASD</span>&#8221; &#8211; needed to get services of course. But the Dev Ped says he had <span class="caps">NVLD</span> w/ S/L delay. Delay being&#8230; speech/language is coming and normally&#8230; just delayed. Now&#8230; he&#8217;s pretty much <span class="caps">NVLD</span>&#8230; bugger when they master sarcasm and little white lies and you cheer b/c they made the milestone and groan b/c now you have to discipline it :)</p>
<p>S.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/autism-recovery/#comment-50832</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 16:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=864#comment-50832</guid>
		<description>I wonder what happens to the kids of most must-cure parents when they inevitably end up being obviously autistic adolescents and adults. Are they accepted at that point? Is it even likely that the autistic adolescent or adult will appreciate their parents&#039; (sometimes dangerous) attempts of cure?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what happens to the kids of most must-cure parents when they inevitably end up being obviously autistic adolescents and adults. Are they accepted at that point? Is it even likely that the autistic adolescent or adult will appreciate their parents&#8217; (sometimes dangerous) attempts of cure?</p>
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		<title>By: Kev</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/autism-recovery/#comment-50830</link>
		<dc:creator>Kev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 14:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=864#comment-50830</guid>
		<description>Interesting story Storkdok. We too can plainly see signs in retrospect but only in comparison to our youngest child who is nearly 3. Its like xe does something and we say to each other - &#039;M never did that!&#039;.

Angela, I&#039;m not sure I&#039;m saying Evan was never autistic. I don&#039;t want to disenfranchise him on such scant data :) - to me it all adds up to a situation where no knowledge  seems to being passed off and accepted as factual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting story Storkdok. We too can plainly see signs in retrospect but only in comparison to our youngest child who is nearly 3. Its like xe does something and we say to each other &#8211; &#8216;M never did that!&#8217;.</p>
<p>Angela, I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;m saying Evan was never autistic. I don&#8217;t want to disenfranchise him on such scant data :) &#8211; to me it all adds up to a situation where no knowledge  seems to being passed off and accepted as factual.</p>
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		<title>By: Bink</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/autism-recovery/#comment-50829</link>
		<dc:creator>Bink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 14:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=864#comment-50829</guid>
		<description>storkdok, thanks for sharing that information. I think a lot of parents of older autistic children genuinely believe &quot;something happened&quot; precisely because they and their doctors missed the early signs of autism. I myself was assured repeatedly by my pediatrician that there was nothing atypical about my child, up until about age 2.5 or 3. But looking back at my videotapes I can plainly see that the signs were always there. The pediatrician thought that since my child spoke and was affectionate that my child could not be on the spectrum. So I can understand where some parents might be coming from. When one does finally get the diagnosis, it can seem like a 180 degree turnaround from what one was sure was true. 

As far as &quot;recovery,&quot; it seems to be something people don&#039;t want to define. I and others I know have tried to get a major autism organization we are members of to define the word, especially when they publish articles about how this or that biomedical intervention led to it, but, they won&#039;t. 

A lot of people would consider my child to be &quot;recovered&quot; based on some of the above descriptions. I think my child is simply an awesome, brave, cool autistic kid who is doing her damndest to navigate her way in this difficult world. I love her, I support and help her, and I admire her strength. What I don&#039;t do is try to &quot;cure&quot; her of being herself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>storkdok, thanks for sharing that information. I think a lot of parents of older autistic children genuinely believe &#8220;something happened&#8221; precisely because they and their doctors missed the early signs of autism. I myself was assured repeatedly by my pediatrician that there was nothing atypical about my child, up until about age 2.5 or 3. But looking back at my videotapes I can plainly see that the signs were always there. The pediatrician thought that since my child spoke and was affectionate that my child could not be on the spectrum. So I can understand where some parents might be coming from. When one does finally get the diagnosis, it can seem like a 180 degree turnaround from what one was sure was true.</p>
<p>As far as &#8220;recovery,&#8221; it seems to be something people don&#8217;t want to define. I and others I know have tried to get a major autism organization we are members of to define the word, especially when they publish articles about how this or that biomedical intervention led to it, but, they won&#8217;t.</p>
<p>A lot of people would consider my child to be &#8220;recovered&#8221; based on some of the above descriptions. I think my child is simply an awesome, brave, cool autistic kid who is doing her damndest to navigate her way in this difficult world. I love her, I support and help her, and I admire her strength. What I don&#8217;t do is try to &#8220;cure&#8221; her of being herself.</p>
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		<title>By: storkdok</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/autism-recovery/#comment-50828</link>
		<dc:creator>storkdok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 14:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=864#comment-50828</guid>
		<description>I posted this this morning on Kristina&#039;s website.  I thought it was appropriate for your discussion here, as well.



&quot;When my younger son entered the Siblings Study at LADDERS three years ago, Mass General Hospital, he was first examined by Dr. Margaret Baumann. One of the many questions I asked was, “Is ‘recovery’ possible, or even real?” She said she had never seen an actual child who was no longer autistic. There were a handful of kids she saw over the many years of her practice who may have “lost” the diagnosis, basically they no longer needed an IEP and intensive intervention or an aide in school, but they were still autistic in their way of thinking and perceiving the world. They had learned skills and strategies very well so that they blended in with NTs.

I also asked her about what percentage of children in the Siblings Study they were seeing with “regressive” autism. She said, “None”. She said when they reviewed the videotapes from the parents and watched the children’s development from birth, there were always subtle signs that pointed to autism, but were missed by parents and even clinicians/physicians who were not trained in child development. The atypical development was present from the first year of life, not just after vaccinations in the second year of life. It becomes more obvious in the second year of life when the child doesn’t progress in development when compared to NT children of the same age.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted this this morning on Kristina&#8217;s website.  I thought it was appropriate for your discussion here, as well.</p>
<p>&#8220;When my younger son entered the Siblings Study at <span class="caps">LADDERS</span> three years ago, Mass General Hospital, he was first examined by Dr. Margaret Baumann. One of the many questions I asked was, &#8220;Is &#8216;recovery&#8217; possible, or even real?&#8221; She said she had never seen an actual child who was no longer autistic. There were a handful of kids she saw over the many years of her practice who may have &#8220;lost&#8221; the diagnosis, basically they no longer needed an <span class="caps">IEP</span> and intensive intervention or an aide in school, but they were still autistic in their way of thinking and perceiving the world. They had learned skills and strategies very well so that they blended in with NTs.</p>
<p>I also asked her about what percentage of children in the Siblings Study they were seeing with &#8220;regressive&#8221; autism. She said, &#8220;None&#8221;. She said when they reviewed the videotapes from the parents and watched the children&#8217;s development from birth, there were always subtle signs that pointed to autism, but were missed by parents and even clinicians/physicians who were not trained in child development. The atypical development was present from the first year of life, not just after vaccinations in the second year of life. It becomes more obvious in the second year of life when the child doesn&#8217;t progress in development when compared to NT children of the same age.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Angela</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/autism-recovery/#comment-50827</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 13:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=864#comment-50827</guid>
		<description>You know, we considered for a couple of months trying to find treatments for our son in the form of chelation and some of the other things that Jenny spoke of. It came down to the fact that none of those treatments are proven to have the desired results...and then we celebrated the wonderful child he is with Autism! I think you are probably right in your assessment that Evan may never have had autism....guess we&#039;ll never know for sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, we considered for a couple of months trying to find treatments for our son in the form of chelation and some of the other things that Jenny spoke of. It came down to the fact that none of those treatments are proven to have the desired results&#8230;and then we celebrated the wonderful child he is with Autism! I think you are probably right in your assessment that Evan may never have had autism&#8230;.guess we&#8217;ll never know for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: farmwifetwo</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/autism-recovery/#comment-50826</link>
		<dc:creator>farmwifetwo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=864#comment-50826</guid>
		<description>Recovery is the mistaken assumption that if a child appears &quot;normal&quot; they now are.

My 8yr old appears normal now - he went from non-verbal mild-PDD to a dx of NVLD. He appears &quot;normal&quot;.

He has a terrible time with social skills and abstract thinking. Those issues are being dealt with.

He&#039;s not &quot;cured&quot; nor &quot;recovered&quot;... he&#039;s just doing AMAZING!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recovery is the mistaken assumption that if a child appears &#8220;normal&#8221; they now are.</p>
<p>My 8yr old appears normal now &#8211; he went from non-verbal mild-PDD to a dx of <span class="caps">NVLD</span>. He appears &#8220;normal&#8221;.</p>
<p>He has a terrible time with social skills and abstract thinking. Those issues are being dealt with.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s not &#8220;cured&#8221; nor &#8220;recovered&#8221;... he&#8217;s just doing <span class="caps">AMAZING</span><img src="!" alt="" border="0" /></p>
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