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	<title>Comments on: Data Obtained By MM Show There&#8217;s No Association Between DTP Vaccination and Autism</title>
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	<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/data-obtained-by-mm-show-theres-no-association-between-dtp-vaccination-and-autism/</link>
	<description>Autism news and opinion</description>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/data-obtained-by-mm-show-theres-no-association-between-dtp-vaccination-and-autism/#comment-51170</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=878#comment-51170</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Contrast this to the simplistic “debunking” (Skeptico) that you reference in your opening paragraph. Not only does it not address any issues raised by Handley, but it really only raises complaints about an article written by Kennedy many years ago. It doesn’t address any of the specific issues raised about Simpsonwood, especially the ones that Handley raises.&lt;/i&gt;

You&#039;re going to have to be more specific than that, Swartz. For example, Handley is still putting forth the notion that it was a secretive meeting and so forth, which Skeptico clearly addressed. Skeptico&#039;s post is from 2005, so it is unlikely to be a point by point rebuttal of a post Handley wrote recently. But again, Handley is still thinking of Simpsonwood as some sort of conspiracy, when it has clearly been shown not to be.

I would note also that while Skeptico read the full Simpsonwood transcript, I don&#039;t believe Handley has stated the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Contrast this to the simplistic &#8220;debunking&#8221; (Skeptico) that you reference in your opening paragraph. Not only does it not address any issues raised by Handley, but it really only raises complaints about an article written by Kennedy many years ago. It doesn&#8217;t address any of the specific issues raised about Simpsonwood, especially the ones that Handley raises.</i></p>
<p>You&#8217;re going to have to be more specific than that, Swartz. For example, Handley is still putting forth the notion that it was a secretive meeting and so forth, which Skeptico clearly addressed. Skeptico&#8217;s post is from 2005, so it is unlikely to be a point by point rebuttal of a post Handley wrote recently. But again, Handley is still thinking of Simpsonwood as some sort of conspiracy, when it has clearly been shown not to be.</p>
<p>I would note also that while Skeptico read the full Simpsonwood transcript, I don&#8217;t believe Handley has stated the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/data-obtained-by-mm-show-theres-no-association-between-dtp-vaccination-and-autism/#comment-51025</link>
		<dc:creator>Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 22:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=878#comment-51025</guid>
		<description>Joseph,

Interesting analysis of that data.

I think you&#039;re being a bit misleading in your introduction though.

Handley&#039;s article is not a discussion of these statistics, but a historical discussion about the evidence and actions of the CDC on the issue of Thimerosal.  It is quite specific in it&#039;s review of the evidence around the history.

Contrast this to the simplistic &quot;debunking&quot; (Skeptico) that you reference in your opening paragraph.  Not only does it not address any issues raised by Handley, but it really only raises complaints about an article written by Kennedy many years ago.  It doesn&#039;t address any of the specific issues raised about Simpsonwood, especially the ones that Handley raises.

Skeptico&#039;s critique of Kennedy is not a debunking of anything but Kennedy.  It certainly can&#039;t be used as a dismissive response to Handley&#039;s article.

I&#039;m glad you correctly specified at the very end (despite an earlier assertion) that the correlation you&#039;re looking at is specific to DTP and not vaccines in general.  There are far too many people on both sides of these vaccine arguments that treat all vaccines as equivalent and apply specific conclusions to all of them without the proper evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joseph,</p>
<p>Interesting analysis of that data.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re being a bit misleading in your introduction though.</p>
<p>Handley&#8217;s article is not a discussion of these statistics, but a historical discussion about the evidence and actions of the <span class="caps">CDC</span> on the issue of Thimerosal.  It is quite specific in it&#8217;s review of the evidence around the history.</p>
<p>Contrast this to the simplistic &#8220;debunking&#8221; (Skeptico) that you reference in your opening paragraph.  Not only does it not address any issues raised by Handley, but it really only raises complaints about an article written by Kennedy many years ago.  It doesn&#8217;t address any of the specific issues raised about Simpsonwood, especially the ones that Handley raises.</p>
<p>Skeptico&#8217;s critique of Kennedy is not a debunking of anything but Kennedy.  It certainly can&#8217;t be used as a dismissive response to Handley&#8217;s article.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad you correctly specified at the very end (despite an earlier assertion) that the correlation you&#8217;re looking at is specific to <span class="caps">DTP</span> and not vaccines in general.  There are far too many people on both sides of these vaccine arguments that treat all vaccines as equivalent and apply specific conclusions to all of them without the proper evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/data-obtained-by-mm-show-theres-no-association-between-dtp-vaccination-and-autism/#comment-51024</link>
		<dc:creator>Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 21:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=878#comment-51024</guid>
		<description>Melody,

It happens a lot in statistics.  Small changes in analysis techniques, and/or assumptions can easily reverse the outcome of a statistical analysis.  Many reviews of the numerous epidemiology studies on both sides of this argument have been used to show opposite conclusions.

The most recent peer-reviewed example was the DeSoto et al and Ip et al analyses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melody,</p>
<p>It happens a lot in statistics.  Small changes in analysis techniques, and/or assumptions can easily reverse the outcome of a statistical analysis.  Many reviews of the numerous epidemiology studies on both sides of this argument have been used to show opposite conclusions.</p>
<p>The most recent peer-reviewed example was the DeSoto et al and Ip et al analyses.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/data-obtained-by-mm-show-theres-no-association-between-dtp-vaccination-and-autism/#comment-51011</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 17:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=878#comment-51011</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;actually Joseph, i don’t think you mentioned that the data that I received from the state of california was very different from the data that Handley claimed that he received.&lt;/i&gt;

I did link to your post, Jon. I&#039;m of course working under the assumption that JB Handley didn&#039;t fabricate that documentation. There&#039;s probably a legitimate explanation as to the discrepancy. The coverage cut-off age might be one possibility, as I noted in your blog. 

Of maybe the Illuminati produced bogus FOIA documents to fool Handley and have us find there&#039;s no association of autism with vaccines, who knows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>actually Joseph, i don&#8217;t think you mentioned that the data that I received from the state of california was very different from the data that Handley claimed that he received.</i></p>
<p>I did link to your post, Jon. I&#8217;m of course working under the assumption that <span class="caps">JB </span>Handley didn&#8217;t fabricate that documentation. There&#8217;s probably a legitimate explanation as to the discrepancy. The coverage cut-off age might be one possibility, as I noted in your blog.</p>
<p>Of maybe the Illuminati produced bogus <span class="caps">FOIA</span> documents to fool Handley and have us find there&#8217;s no association of autism with vaccines, who knows.</p>
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		<title>By: Melody</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/data-obtained-by-mm-show-theres-no-association-between-dtp-vaccination-and-autism/#comment-51009</link>
		<dc:creator>Melody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 08:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=878#comment-51009</guid>
		<description>I think the most rewarding part of any debate or discussion is when you show that the opposing side&#039;s own evidence actually suggests or proves your own point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the most rewarding part of any debate or discussion is when you show that the opposing side&#8217;s own evidence actually suggests or proves your own point.</p>
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		<title>By: jon Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/data-obtained-by-mm-show-theres-no-association-between-dtp-vaccination-and-autism/#comment-51007</link>
		<dc:creator>jon Mitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 06:19:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=878#comment-51007</guid>
		<description>actually Joseph, i don&#039;t think you mentioned that the data that I received from the state of california was very different from the data that Handley claimed that he received.  The data I was given showed very high uptake of DTP vaccinations whereas the data Handley claimed Dale Lorings gave showed very low uptakes of DTP.  I know that the state of california gave me my data.  I am not sure where Handley got his data or why it was different from mine but it is something to ponder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually Joseph, i don&#8217;t think you mentioned that the data that I received from the state of california was very different from the data that Handley claimed that he received.  The data I was given showed very high uptake of <span class="caps">DTP</span> vaccinations whereas the data Handley claimed Dale Lorings gave showed very low uptakes of <span class="caps">DTP</span>.  I know that the state of california gave me my data.  I am not sure where Handley got his data or why it was different from mine but it is something to ponder.</p>
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		<title>By: culvercitycynic</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/data-obtained-by-mm-show-theres-no-association-between-dtp-vaccination-and-autism/#comment-51005</link>
		<dc:creator>culvercitycynic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 06:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=878#comment-51005</guid>
		<description>Thank-you Jonathan; thank-you Joseph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank-you Jonathan; thank-you Joseph.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. Clark</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/data-obtained-by-mm-show-theres-no-association-between-dtp-vaccination-and-autism/#comment-51004</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=878#comment-51004</guid>
		<description>That was pretty nice of Jon Mitchell and the folks at AoA to help make the point that vaccines have no connection to autism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was pretty nice of Jon Mitchell and the folks at AoA to help make the point that vaccines have no connection to autism.</p>
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