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	<title>Comments on: Green our vaccines &#8211; the outreach effort</title>
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	<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/green-our-vaccines-the-outreach-effort/</link>
	<description>Autism news and opinion</description>
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		<title>By: Autism Blog - More Talks for David Kirby &#124; Left Brain/Right Brain</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/green-our-vaccines-the-outreach-effort/#comment-51033</link>
		<dc:creator>Autism Blog - More Talks for David Kirby &#124; Left Brain/Right Brain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=861#comment-51033</guid>
		<description>[...] to his HuffPo blog David is giving some more talks. This time not in the uninterested UK but in the NE [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to his HuffPo blog David is giving some more talks. This time not in the uninterested UK but in the <span class="caps">NE </span>[...]</p>
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		<title>By: More Talks by David Kirby</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/green-our-vaccines-the-outreach-effort/#comment-51026</link>
		<dc:creator>More Talks by David Kirby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 00:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=861#comment-51026</guid>
		<description>[...] that he would be addressing the House of Lords in the UK earlier this month (an event attended by 1 MP, 4 Lords, and some others), so journalist David Kirby has noted that he will be speaking in June at Brown University in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that he would be addressing the House of Lords in the UK earlier this month (an event attended by 1 MP, 4 Lords, and some others), so journalist David Kirby has noted that he will be speaking in June at Brown University in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Wright</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/green-our-vaccines-the-outreach-effort/#comment-50871</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:50:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=861#comment-50871</guid>
		<description>Just a brief comment to say thanks for the work you put in on this issue and long may you do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a brief comment to say thanks for the work you put in on this issue and long may you do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Autism Blog - The Art of Green Our Vaccines &#124; Left Brain/Right Brain</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/green-our-vaccines-the-outreach-effort/#comment-50849</link>
		<dc:creator>Autism Blog - The Art of Green Our Vaccines &#124; Left Brain/Right Brain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 14:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=861#comment-50849</guid>
		<description>[...] the &#8220;Green our Vaccines&#8221; rally (already much discussed&#8212;such as here, here, here, here, here), I spent a lot of time thinking about what sort of questions I would ask [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the &#8220;Green our Vaccines&#8221; rally (already much discussed&#8212;such as here, here, here, here, here), I spent a lot of time thinking about what sort of questions I would ask [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Antivaccinationist fizzles &#171; The Plummet Onions</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/green-our-vaccines-the-outreach-effort/#comment-50847</link>
		<dc:creator>Antivaccinationist fizzles &#171; The Plummet Onions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 10:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=861#comment-50847</guid>
		<description>[...] looks like I needn&#8217;t have worried. From a summary update in Respectful Insolence, almost no one attended Kirby&#8217;s briefing to MPs and Lords. And fewer than 100 people - and effectively no media [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] looks like I needn&#8217;t have worried. From a summary update in Respectful Insolence, almost no one attended Kirby&#8217;s briefing to MPs and Lords. And fewer than 100 people &#8211; and effectively no media [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Orac</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/green-our-vaccines-the-outreach-effort/#comment-50844</link>
		<dc:creator>Orac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 03:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=861#comment-50844</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;This is exactly the opposite of reality in evidence-based medicine, where case reports and in vitro studies are considered the least reliable forms of evidence.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not exactly. One of the problems with evidence-based medicine is that basic science results tend to be under-emphasized. That&#039;s the reason that modalities that are totally ridiculous a priori from a scientific standpoint (homeopathy and &quot;reiki&quot; for example) keep getting tested in clinical trials. This certainly doesn&#039;t mean that in vitro tests are superior for questions like vaccine safety. They aren&#039;t, and David Kirby&#039;s full of crap if he thinks that throwing thimerosal on neurons in cell culture at high concentrations tells us much of anything about how mercury behaves in the body when injected at the concentrations that used to be used in vaccines. It&#039;s just a little bit of a sore point that the EBM paradigm tends to undervalue basic science by a large degree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>
<blockquote>This is exactly the opposite of reality in evidence-based medicine, where case reports and in vitro studies are considered the least reliable forms of evidence.</p></blockquote>
<p>Not exactly. One of the problems with evidence-based medicine is that basic science results tend to be under-emphasized. That&#8217;s the reason that modalities that are totally ridiculous a priori from a scientific standpoint (homeopathy and &#8220;reiki&#8221; for example) keep getting tested in clinical trials. This certainly doesn&#8217;t mean that in vitro tests are superior for questions like vaccine safety. They aren&#8217;t, and David Kirby&#8217;s full of crap if he thinks that throwing thimerosal on neurons in cell culture at high concentrations tells us much of anything about how mercury behaves in the body when injected at the concentrations that used to be used in vaccines. It&#8217;s just a little bit of a sore point that the <span class="caps">EBM</span> paradigm tends to undervalue basic science by a large degree.</p>
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		<title>By: blog-thing : David Kirby in London</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/green-our-vaccines-the-outreach-effort/#comment-50824</link>
		<dc:creator>blog-thing : David Kirby in London</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jun 2008 09:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=861#comment-50824</guid>
		<description>[...] in the UK poor old David Kirby managed less than that. My thanks to Kev for persuading his MP to attend the parliamentary briefing. He was the only one to turn up along [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in the UK poor old David Kirby managed less than that. My thanks to Kev for persuading his MP to attend the parliamentary briefing. He was the only one to turn up along [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/green-our-vaccines-the-outreach-effort/#comment-50775</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks Rob. I found this part of your summary interesting:

&quot;He contrasted this with the case in favour of a vaccine/autism connection being based on &quot;harder&quot; laboratory studies and toxicology, real diagnoses of actual patients instead of any aggragation of statistics.&quot;

In other words, it appears that David Kirby believes case reports and in vitro studies are superior to group studies. This is exactly the opposite of reality in evidence-based medicine, where case reports and in vitro studies are considered the least reliable forms of evidence. They are about at the same level as expert opinion and a notch above anecdotes I believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Rob. I found this part of your summary interesting:</p>
<p>&#8220;He contrasted this with the case in favour of a vaccine/autism connection being based on &#8220;harder&#8221; laboratory studies and toxicology, real diagnoses of actual patients instead of any aggragation of statistics.&#8221;</p>
<p>In other words, it appears that David Kirby believes case reports and in vitro studies are superior to group studies. This is exactly the opposite of reality in evidence-based medicine, where case reports and in vitro studies are considered the least reliable forms of evidence. They are about at the same level as expert opinion and a notch above anecdotes I believe.</p>
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		<title>By: Kev</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/green-our-vaccines-the-outreach-effort/#comment-50774</link>
		<dc:creator>Kev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=861#comment-50774</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that Rob, very informative.

Socrates - JABS is indeed a British group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that Rob, very informative.</p>
<p>Socrates &#8211; <span class="caps">JABS</span> is indeed a British group.</p>
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		<title>By: Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/06/green-our-vaccines-the-outreach-effort/#comment-50773</link>
		<dc:creator>Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 19:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=861#comment-50773</guid>
		<description>All I can say is that we got stuck with Wakefield in the US.  The least you guys in the UK could do is make David Kirby feel welcome and try to recruit him over to your side of the Atlantic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I can say is that we got stuck with Wakefield in the US.  The least you guys in the UK could do is make David Kirby feel welcome and try to recruit him over to your side of the Atlantic.</p>
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