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	<title>Comments on: Jon Poling &#8211; no such thing as bad publicity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/10/jon-poling-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/10/jon-poling-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity/</link>
	<description>Autism news and opinion</description>
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		<title>By: The Truth About Vaccines: Vaccines And Autism &#171; Stuff And Nonsense</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/10/jon-poling-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity/#comment-66886</link>
		<dc:creator>The Truth About Vaccines: Vaccines And Autism &#171; Stuff And Nonsense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1475#comment-66886</guid>
		<description>[...] there is also a line in a letter from Dr Poling to the journal that printed his paper, that Left Brain/Right Brain reads as an admission that it was actually conceded that vaccination caused encephalitis rather [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] there is also&#160;a line in a letter from Dr Poling&#160;to the journal that printed&#160;his paper,&#160;that Left Brain/Right Brain&#160;reads as an&#160;admission that it was actually conceded that vaccination caused encephalitis rather [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kev</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/10/jon-poling-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity/#comment-53554</link>
		<dc:creator>Kev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1475#comment-53554</guid>
		<description>Further to the points made above MJ, I want to pick you up on your strawman: I didn&#039;t claim the paper was invalidated. In fact, I would rather it wasn&#039;t as it shows quite clearly that there aren&#039;t enough symptoms described as being caused by vaccines to meet a diagnosis of autism.

I&#039;m puzzled by your definition of &#039;encephalopathy&#039; because nowhere I can find does it state that encephalopathy always and inevitably leads to autism. Read what Jon Poling wrote in this letter. He clearly differentiates between encephalopathy, autism and mitochondrial dysfunction. And _then_ states HHS conceded vaccines triggered Hannah Poling&#039;s encephalopathy. Its a bizarre statement to make if he thinks HHS conceded vaccines caused her autism. And in fact, nowhere does it state in any HHS document I&#039;ve read that they concede vaccines _did_ trigger her autism.

Sorry MJ, the game&#039;s up for Jon Poling. He can stand alongside Andrew Wakefield as someone who has lost the plot and can&#039;t keep his own story straight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Further to the points made above MJ, I want to pick you up on your strawman: I didn&#8217;t claim the paper was invalidated. In fact, I would rather it wasn&#8217;t as it shows quite clearly that there aren&#8217;t enough symptoms described as being caused by vaccines to meet a diagnosis of autism.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m puzzled by your definition of &#8216;encephalopathy&#8217; because nowhere I can find does it state that encephalopathy always and inevitably leads to autism. Read what Jon Poling wrote in this letter. He clearly differentiates between encephalopathy, autism and mitochondrial dysfunction. And <em>then</em> states <span class="caps">HHS</span> conceded vaccines triggered Hannah Poling&#8217;s encephalopathy. Its a bizarre statement to make if he thinks <span class="caps">HHS</span> conceded vaccines caused her autism. And in fact, nowhere does it state in any <span class="caps">HHS</span> document I&#8217;ve read that they concede vaccines <em>did</em> trigger her autism.</p>
<p>Sorry MJ, the game&#8217;s up for Jon Poling. He can stand alongside Andrew Wakefield as someone who has lost the plot and can&#8217;t keep his own story straight.</p>
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		<title>By: D. C. Sessions</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/10/jon-poling-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity/#comment-53553</link>
		<dc:creator>D. C. Sessions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 16:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1475#comment-53553</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;Tsu Dho Nimh nails the issue spot on. You would do well to read what he says and think about it properly.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

s/he/she/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>
<blockquote cite="">Tsu Dho Nimh nails the issue spot on. You would do well to read what he says and think about it properly.</p></blockquote>
<p>s/he/she/</p>
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		<title>By: Dedj</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/10/jon-poling-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity/#comment-53552</link>
		<dc:creator>Dedj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 16:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1475#comment-53552</guid>
		<description>Well MJ, if you can&#039;t even get the conflicts of interest correct then there&#039;s really no need to take your arguement seriously.

Poling could have benefitted from improved interventions or increased services and understanding as a result of his paper - this would not have been a major concern as parents are often the discoverers of new interventions or the catalyst for new services. The fact that parents are sometimes also practitioners is to be expected, although this point flies over the head of the likes of Jenny Mc et al, who seem to assume anyone who disagrees with them must not, cannot, be a autism parent.

Tsu Dho Nimh nails the issue spot on. You would do well to read what he says and think about it properly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well MJ, if you can&#8217;t even get the conflicts of interest correct then there&#8217;s really no need to take your arguement seriously.</p>
<p>Poling could have benefitted from improved interventions or increased services and understanding as a result of his paper &#8211; this would not have been a major concern as parents are often the discoverers of new interventions or the catalyst for new services. The fact that parents are sometimes also practitioners is to be expected, although this point flies over the head of the likes of Jenny Mc et al, who seem to assume anyone who disagrees with them must not, cannot, be a autism parent.</p>
<p>Tsu Dho Nimh nails the issue spot on. You would do well to read what he says and think about it properly.</p>
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		<title>By: Tsu Dho Nimh</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/10/jon-poling-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity/#comment-53551</link>
		<dc:creator>Tsu Dho Nimh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 16:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1475#comment-53551</guid>
		<description>MJ ... 

Poling was publishing material that could affect the outcome of a lawsuit when he was a party to that lawsuit. He hid that relationship from the journal that the material was submitted to.

Offit, on the other hand, doesn&#039;t hide his affiliations when he publishes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="caps">MJ </span>&#8230;</p>
<p>Poling was publishing material that could affect the outcome of a lawsuit when he was a party to that lawsuit. He hid that relationship from the journal that the material was submitted to.</p>
<p>Offit, on the other hand, doesn&#8217;t hide his affiliations when he publishes.</p>
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		<title>By: alyric</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/10/jon-poling-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity/#comment-53550</link>
		<dc:creator>alyric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 15:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1475#comment-53550</guid>
		<description>MJ

The only absurdity is yourself and your string of nonsensical statements.  Why do you think the editor of JNC wrote the article he did?  Was it because he recognised even if you don&#039;t that Poling&#039;s lack of disclosure is a serious omission and likely to damage his journal?  Along with absurdity there is also your fabrication about Dr Offit&#039;s conflicts of interest, none of which exist today and all of which were very properly disclosed by Dr Offit in the past, unlike Poling, Pa or Ma.

As for your ramblings about encephalopathy, I think you&#039;d better calm down a bit.  According to you, ignorant though you are, every encephalopathy is equivalent to autism, which rather begs the question why all kids with a mitochondrial disorder leading to encephalopaqthy has not been labelled autistic and they have not.   Thre&#039;s a difference and it is at least good that Poling had to admit such, though I suspect even he realised that his credibility would be sunk if he didn&#039;t.  All very well to hold press conferences and attempt to bamboozle the public but he had to be a bit more honest with his scientific peers.  Now that gives me some confidence in that scientific process call peer review.  Every now and then it seems to work.  Ain&#039;t science grand?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MJ</p>
<p>The only absurdity is yourself and your string of nonsensical statements.  Why do you think the editor of <span class="caps">JNC</span> wrote the article he did?  Was it because he recognised even if you don&#8217;t that Poling&#8217;s lack of disclosure is a serious omission and likely to damage his journal?  Along with absurdity there is also your fabrication about Dr Offit&#8217;s conflicts of interest, none of which exist today and all of which were very properly disclosed by Dr Offit in the past, unlike Poling, Pa or Ma.</p>
<p>As for your ramblings about encephalopathy, I think you&#8217;d better calm down a bit.  According to you, ignorant though you are, every encephalopathy is equivalent to autism, which rather begs the question why all kids with a mitochondrial disorder leading to encephalopaqthy has not been labelled autistic and they have not.   Thre&#8217;s a difference and it is at least good that Poling had to admit such, though I suspect even he realised that his credibility would be sunk if he didn&#8217;t.  All very well to hold press conferences and attempt to bamboozle the public but he had to be a bit more honest with his scientific peers.  Now that gives me some confidence in that scientific process call peer review.  Every now and then it seems to work.  Ain&#8217;t science grand?</p>
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		<title>By: MJ</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/10/jon-poling-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity/#comment-53549</link>
		<dc:creator>MJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 13:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1475#comment-53549</guid>
		<description>This is absurd.  In what way specifically does him failing to disclose that he is the father of the subject invalidate the results of the study?  This is character assassination, pure and simple.

Lets not forget that your favorite spokesperson Dr Offit regularly forgets to disclose that he has/had a massive financial conflict of interest.  

So lets see, profiting from a billion dollar vaccine or being the father of a study subject - which do you honestly think is going to be more of a conflict of interest? 

And as for Dr Poling &quot;admitting&quot; anything I really suggest you look up the meaning of the word &quot;encephalopathy&quot; and what it implies.  In this context it implies that her brain was damaged by some external problem WHICH THEN LEAD TO AUTISM.  If A causes B and B causes C then A caused C.  

At least in this one cause vaccines led to autism.  Deal with it and move on - stop attacking the family to make yourself feel better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is absurd.  In what way specifically does him failing to disclose that he is the father of the subject invalidate the results of the study?  This is character assassination, pure and simple.</p>
<p>Lets not forget that your favorite spokesperson Dr Offit regularly forgets to disclose that he has/had a massive financial conflict of interest.</p>
<p>So lets see, profiting from a billion dollar vaccine or being the father of a study subject &#8211; which do you honestly think is going to be more of a conflict of interest?</p>
<p>And as for Dr Poling &#8220;admitting&#8221; anything I really suggest you look up the meaning of the word &#8220;encephalopathy&#8221; and what it implies.  In this context it implies that her brain was damaged by some external problem <span class="caps">WHICH THEN LEAD TO AUTISM</span>.  If A causes B and B causes C then A caused C.</p>
<p>At least in this one cause vaccines led to autism.  Deal with it and move on &#8211; stop attacking the family to make yourself feel better.</p>
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		<title>By: Ringside Seat</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/10/jon-poling-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity/#comment-53547</link>
		<dc:creator>Ringside Seat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 09:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1475#comment-53547</guid>
		<description>One thing that will surely follow from the discovery of this Wakefield/Geier-style scam by Polling is that the campaign will be stepped up to abuse Dr Offit, the CDC etc.  

Although no concealments have ever been demonstrated against them - and despite whistleblower statutes, nobody has ever come forward with any evidence they have done anything wrong, or concealed any data - it&#039;s vital to the Wakefield/Geier campaign to spread their poison.  Only that way does the crookery behind the anti-vaccine campaign become bearable to its perpetrators.

Here&#039;s another example of what&#039;s going on in the UK:

http://briandeer.com/mmr/mli-information.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that will surely follow from the discovery of this Wakefield/Geier-style scam by Polling is that the campaign will be stepped up to abuse Dr Offit, the <span class="caps">CDC</span> etc.</p>
<p>Although no concealments have ever been demonstrated against them &#8211; and despite whistleblower statutes, nobody has ever come forward with any evidence they have done anything wrong, or concealed any data &#8211; it&#8217;s vital to the Wakefield/Geier campaign to spread their poison.  Only that way does the crookery behind the anti-vaccine campaign become bearable to its perpetrators.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s another example of what&#8217;s going on in the UK:</p>
<p><a href="http://briandeer.com/mmr/mli-information.htm" rel="nofollow">http://briandeer.com/mmr/mli-information.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: isles</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/10/jon-poling-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity/#comment-53546</link>
		<dc:creator>isles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 03:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1475#comment-53546</guid>
		<description>Disingenuity, thy name is Poling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disingenuity, thy name is Poling.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. Clark</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/10/jon-poling-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity/#comment-53543</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 21:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1475#comment-53543</guid>
		<description>Well, maybe Dr. Poling was trying to save his reputation at that point by using honesty instead of media spin.  
&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;Because our daughter has diagnoses of &lt;em&gt;autism, regressive encephalopathy, and mitochondrial dysfunction&lt;/em&gt;, her case was placed in the Omnibus Autism Proceedings. Before HHS government physicians conceded that Hannah’s July 2000 vaccinations triggered her &lt;strong&gt;encephalopathy&lt;/strong&gt;…..&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And &lt;strong&gt;we are still waiting &lt;/strong&gt;for the Polings to scold David Kirby for taking their daughter&#039;s name and the details of her disability and making it all public and stuff.

They didn&#039;t scold him.  They probably handed him the documents themselves, and if they didn&#039;t then it would seem likely that their lawyer did with their permission.  They didn&#039;t scold Cliffy, either, they didn&#039;t scold anyone, but acted like Kirby had done them a favor when they (with Hannah in tow)  showed up for the camera crew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, maybe Dr. Poling was trying to save his reputation at that point by using honesty instead of media spin.</p>
<blockquote cite=""><p>Because our daughter has diagnoses of <em>autism, regressive encephalopathy, and mitochondrial dysfunction</em>, her case was placed in the Omnibus Autism Proceedings. Before <span class="caps">HHS</span> government physicians conceded that Hannah&#8217;s July 2000 vaccinations triggered her <strong>encephalopathy</strong>&#8230;..</p></blockquote>
<p>And <strong>we are still waiting </strong>for the Polings to scold David Kirby for taking their daughter&#8217;s name and the details of her disability and making it all public and stuff.</p>
<p>They didn&#8217;t scold him.  They probably handed him the documents themselves, and if they didn&#8217;t then it would seem likely that their lawyer did with their permission.  They didn&#8217;t scold Cliffy, either, they didn&#8217;t scold anyone, but acted like Kirby had done them a favor when they (with Hannah in tow)  showed up for the camera crew.</p>
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