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	<title>Comments on: Can Children with Autism Recover? If So, How?</title>
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	<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/12/can-children-with-autism-recover-if-so-how/</link>
	<description>Autism news and opinion</description>
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		<title>By: Autism Blog - &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Age of Autism claim &#8216;hundreds of case reports&#8217; of recovered children</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/12/can-children-with-autism-recover-if-so-how/#comment-54998</link>
		<dc:creator>Autism Blog - &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Age of Autism claim &#8216;hundreds of case reports&#8217; of recovered children</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1713#comment-54998</guid>
		<description>[...] that are established to have some benefit already. And lets also look at the results of the recent Helt study which reported that a non vaccine related, non-biomed set of kids had somewhere between 3 and 25% [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that are established to have some benefit already. And lets also look at the results of the recent Helt study which reported that a non vaccine related, non-biomed set of kids had somewhere between 3 and 25% [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kev</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/12/can-children-with-autism-recover-if-so-how/#comment-54858</link>
		<dc:creator>Kev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1713#comment-54858</guid>
		<description>Laura - I mentioned your first point also. no reply as yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laura &#8211; I mentioned your first point also. no reply as yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Sigma</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/12/can-children-with-autism-recover-if-so-how/#comment-54857</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 16:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1713#comment-54857</guid>
		<description>Think about it. If 3-25% of the kids recover then a bio-med doctor can claim recovery in 3-25% of their clients. If they are selective, the percentage will go even higher. Treatments that improve alertness or attentiveness may goose these numbers even higher.

Some may even believe they are the real reason.

On the other hand, intelligent kids with milder impairments could be taught better communication skills and/or to behave more normally. Practice may not make perfect, but it can make you respectable. 

I will add that my &quot;recovered&quot; son does prefer to stay at home and do his own thing. He is a classic introvert, but he does much better when he is forced to go out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think about it. If 3-25% of the kids recover then a bio-med doctor can claim recovery in 3-25% of their clients. If they are selective, the percentage will go even higher. Treatments that improve alertness or attentiveness may goose these numbers even higher.</p>
<p>Some may even believe they are the real reason.</p>
<p>On the other hand, intelligent kids with milder impairments could be taught better communication skills and/or to behave more normally. Practice may not make perfect, but it can make you respectable.</p>
<p>I will add that my &#8220;recovered&#8221; son does prefer to stay at home and do his own thing. He is a classic introvert, but he does much better when he is forced to go out.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/12/can-children-with-autism-recover-if-so-how/#comment-54856</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1713#comment-54856</guid>
		<description>If they didn&#039;t compare to the &quot;behavioral technique&quot; subjects to a controlled sample, then why would anyone put any stock in the hypothesis that the behavioral therapy is responsible?  

Also, am I to understand that a child without imitation skills does not differ from a child with imitation skills, with respect to symptom severity?

I&#039;m calling bullshit on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If they didn&#8217;t compare to the &#8220;behavioral technique&#8221; subjects to a controlled sample, then why would anyone put any stock in the hypothesis that the behavioral therapy is responsible?</p>
<p>Also, am I to understand that a child without imitation skills does not differ from a child with imitation skills, with respect to symptom severity?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m calling bullshit on this one.</p>
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		<title>By: alyric</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/12/can-children-with-autism-recover-if-so-how/#comment-54849</link>
		<dc:creator>alyric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 00:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1713#comment-54849</guid>
		<description>Mayfly wrote:

&quot;On regressive autism, they quote papers saying the expected outcomes for regressed children is about the same to worse.

Kids on biomed do worse?&quot;

No, kids who regress do worse on the whole.  Don&#039;t think it matters if they&#039;re on biomed or not, at least, that&#039;s not the point as far as i can see.  I wonder if they do worse anyway.

CAM at 40% is a pretty easy target to reach if you include vitamin supplement usage.  CAM practioners always do so that folks think that everybody&#039;s using chiropracters and accupuncturists.   They aren&#039;t.  It&#039;s a nice piece of misdirection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mayfly wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;On regressive autism, they quote papers saying the expected outcomes for regressed children is about the same to worse.</p>
<p>Kids on biomed do worse?&#8221;</p>
<p>No, kids who regress do worse on the whole.  Don&#8217;t think it matters if they&#8217;re on biomed or not, at least, that&#8217;s not the point as far as i can see.  I wonder if they do worse anyway.</p>
<p><span class="caps">CAM</span> at 40% is a pretty easy target to reach if you include vitamin supplement usage.  <span class="caps">CAM</span> practioners always do so that folks think that everybody&#8217;s using chiropracters and accupuncturists.   They aren&#8217;t.  It&#8217;s a nice piece of misdirection.</p>
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		<title>By: Prometheus</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/12/can-children-with-autism-recover-if-so-how/#comment-54842</link>
		<dc:creator>Prometheus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1713#comment-54842</guid>
		<description>Given the wide range of criteria used to define &quot;recovery&quot;, it is not surprising that there is a wide range of &quot;recovery rates&quot;. Even the lowest rate reported in this review, however, is orders of magnitude higher than the &quot;no [&lt;i&gt;i.e.&lt;/i&gt; zero percent] autistic child recovers without intensive biomedical intervention&quot; story that we&#039;ve been hearing from Big Autism for the past several years.

As for the CAM question - the definition of &quot;CAM&quot; is much like the definition of &quot;art&quot;: very subjective. Depending on how you define &quot;CAM&quot; (&lt;i&gt;e.g.&lt;/i&gt; Is &quot;prayer&quot; CAM? Is relaxation/meditation &quot;CAM&quot;?), you can get usage rates from 2% to 65% in the general population. I suspect another issue is the willingness of parents to &lt;i&gt;admit&lt;/i&gt; that they&#039;ve used &quot;CAM&quot; (&lt;i&gt;i.e.&lt;/i&gt; &quot;biomedical&quot; therapies) if they haven&#039;t &quot;worked&quot; (&lt;i&gt;i.e.&lt;/i&gt; their use coincided with a period of spontaneous improvement). 

&quot;Biomedical&quot; therapies are a serious &quot;hot-button&quot; issue among the parents of autistic children in my area - more than sex or even politics. Many parents won&#039;t mention whether they have used &quot;biomed&quot; (or have &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; used &quot;biomed&quot; or have &lt;i&gt;stopped&lt;/i&gt; using &quot;biomed&quot;) until they are sure that the person they are talking to is of the same opinion (either using &quot;biomed&quot; or &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; using it). It may be impossible to tease out that information, especially in a review article.

The other issue with &quot;biomed&quot; usage is that - at least in &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; community - a large number of parents of autistic children have &lt;i&gt;tried&lt;/i&gt; one or more &quot;biomed&quot; therapies but only a small fraction are still using them or - for matter - ever used them for an extended period. 

The usual response from the &quot;biomed&quot; enthusiasts is to claim &quot;victory&quot; any time a child who &lt;i&gt;ever&lt;/i&gt; received &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; &quot;biomed&quot; therapy gets better - even if the parents of that child deny that the &quot;biomed&quot; therapy &quot;worked&quot;. Strangely enough, the same groups that readily claim that two doses of chelation or six weeks of GFCF diet &quot;cured&quot; (excuse me, &quot;recovered&quot;) an autistic child three or four years after the therapy are &lt;i&gt;also&lt;/i&gt; claiming that it can take up to &lt;i&gt;three years&lt;/i&gt; (or is it four, now?) for chelation to &quot;work&quot; and also claim that going off the GFCF diet - even by so much as a crumb - leads to &quot;catastrophic regression&quot;. There seems to be a contradiction somewhere.

We may never know the true usage of &quot;CAM&quot; or &quot;biomed&quot; in autism, but I think that the finding that children can &quot;recover&quot; from autism without &quot;intensive biomedical intervention&quot; is something that parents need to know.


Prometheus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given the wide range of criteria used to define &#8220;recovery&#8221;, it is not surprising that there is a wide range of &#8220;recovery rates&#8221;. Even the lowest rate reported in this review, however, is orders of magnitude higher than the &#8220;no [<i>i.e.</i> zero percent] autistic child recovers without intensive biomedical intervention&#8221; story that we&#8217;ve been hearing from Big Autism for the past several years.</p>
<p>As for the <span class="caps">CAM</span> question &#8211; the definition of &#8220;CAM&#8221; is much like the definition of &#8220;art&#8221;: very subjective. Depending on how you define &#8220;CAM&#8221; (<i>e.g.</i> Is &#8220;prayer&#8221; <span class="caps">CAM</span>? Is relaxation/meditation &#8220;CAM&#8221;?), you can get usage rates from 2% to 65% in the general population. I suspect another issue is the willingness of parents to <i>admit</i> that they&#8217;ve used &#8220;CAM&#8221; (<i>i.e.</i> &#8220;biomedical&#8221; therapies) if they haven&#8217;t &#8220;worked&#8221; (<i>i.e.</i> their use coincided with a period of spontaneous improvement).</p>
<p>&#8220;Biomedical&#8221; therapies are a serious &#8220;hot-button&#8221; issue among the parents of autistic children in my area &#8211; more than sex or even politics. Many parents won&#8217;t mention whether they have used &#8220;biomed&#8221; (or have <i>not</i> used &#8220;biomed&#8221; or have <i>stopped</i> using &#8220;biomed&#8221;) until they are sure that the person they are talking to is of the same opinion (either using &#8220;biomed&#8221; or <i>not</i> using it). It may be impossible to tease out that information, especially in a review article.</p>
<p>The other issue with &#8220;biomed&#8221; usage is that &#8211; at least in <i>my</i> community &#8211; a large number of parents of autistic children have <i>tried</i> one or more &#8220;biomed&#8221; therapies but only a small fraction are still using them or &#8211; for matter &#8211; ever used them for an extended period.</p>
<p>The usual response from the &#8220;biomed&#8221; enthusiasts is to claim &#8220;victory&#8221; any time a child who <i>ever</i> received <i>any</i> &#8220;biomed&#8221; therapy gets better &#8211; even if the parents of that child deny that the &#8220;biomed&#8221; therapy &#8220;worked&#8221;. Strangely enough, the same groups that readily claim that two doses of chelation or six weeks of <span class="caps">GFCF</span> diet &#8220;cured&#8221; (excuse me, &#8220;recovered&#8221;) an autistic child three or four years after the therapy are <i>also</i> claiming that it can take up to <i>three years</i> (or is it four, now?) for chelation to &#8220;work&#8221; and also claim that going off the <span class="caps">GFCF</span> diet &#8211; even by so much as a crumb &#8211; leads to &#8220;catastrophic regression&#8221;. There seems to be a contradiction somewhere.</p>
<p>We may never know the true usage of &#8220;CAM&#8221; or &#8220;biomed&#8221; in autism, but I think that the finding that children can &#8220;recover&#8221; from autism without &#8220;intensive biomedical intervention&#8221; is something that parents need to know.</p>
<p>Prometheus</p>
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		<title>By: Tyler</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/12/can-children-with-autism-recover-if-so-how/#comment-54841</link>
		<dc:creator>Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1713#comment-54841</guid>
		<description>He seems to include the diet, and that&#039;s apparently a huge chunk of it in North America.  I could see this group, because of diagnosis age and the time around when they&#039;d be diagnosed, might be skewed on this. GFCF diet for autism only dates back to 1991, and it takes time for these things to gain traction. Certainly going GF was a huge PITA even 5 years back. Now I can go down to the local &quot;mainstream&quot; supermarket and they&#039;ve got the an isle dedicated to these foods. So those that were progressing earlier might not have seen a need for it, or it was seen as not worth the extra effort, by the time they heard about it.

It&#039;s interesting to note that my gluten sensitivity has little to do with what the speculated link to autism is, and thus it wasn&#039;t really a CAM in my son&#039;s case though it might get counted as such. I &quot;bloat&quot; (2 slices of bread and I&#039;ll pick up close to 10 pounds within a few days) and have much poorer digestive absorption (I have to take %40 more of a very dose sensitive medication, Strattera). I tested negative on a blood test for celiac but that test has a lot of false negatives. I figured I wouldn&#039;t bother with the endoscope biopsy, which is the gold standard for accuracy, because a celiac diagnosis doesn&#039;t make any real difference to me. I&#039;m still going to actively avoid gluten.

Likewise when I first gave the melatonin to my son I didn&#039;t know anything about these other claims of helping with autism symptoms. I hadn&#039;t even known about it till I did a Google of &quot;autism melatonin&quot; yesterday. It was just for the sleep difficulty thing, which is well documented and understood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He seems to include the diet, and that&#8217;s apparently a huge chunk of it in North America.  I could see this group, because of diagnosis age and the time around when they&#8217;d be diagnosed, might be skewed on this. <span class="caps">GFCF</span> diet for autism only dates back to 1991, and it takes time for these things to gain traction. Certainly going GF was a huge <span class="caps">PITA</span> even 5 years back. Now I can go down to the local &#8220;mainstream&#8221; supermarket and they&#8217;ve got the an isle dedicated to these foods. So those that were progressing earlier might not have seen a need for it, or it was seen as not worth the extra effort, by the time they heard about it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting to note that my gluten sensitivity has little to do with what the speculated link to autism is, and thus it wasn&#8217;t really a <span class="caps">CAM</span> in my son&#8217;s case though it might get counted as such. I &#8220;bloat&#8221; (2 slices of bread and I&#8217;ll pick up close to 10 pounds within a few days) and have much poorer digestive absorption (I have to take %40 more of a very dose sensitive medication, Strattera). I tested negative on a blood test for celiac but that test has a lot of false negatives. I figured I wouldn&#8217;t bother with the endoscope biopsy, which is the gold standard for accuracy, because a celiac diagnosis doesn&#8217;t make any real difference to me. I&#8217;m still going to actively avoid gluten.</p>
<p>Likewise when I first gave the melatonin to my son I didn&#8217;t know anything about these other claims of helping with autism symptoms. I hadn&#8217;t even known about it till I did a Google of &#8220;autism melatonin&#8221; yesterday. It was just for the sleep difficulty thing, which is well documented and understood.</p>
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		<title>By: Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/12/can-children-with-autism-recover-if-so-how/#comment-54840</link>
		<dc:creator>Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1713#comment-54840</guid>
		<description>Jen,

I certainly wouldn&#039;t expect Ontario to act outside any standard/conventional medical care.  Medical services (and thinking) in Ontario is very conservative and slow to change so I would expect different practices in other provinces and especially the US.

Many of the systems in place are from the dinosaur age...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jen,</p>
<p>I certainly wouldn&#8217;t expect Ontario to act outside any standard/conventional medical care.  Medical services (and thinking) in Ontario is very conservative and slow to change so I would expect different practices in other provinces and especially the US.</p>
<p>Many of the systems in place are from the dinosaur age&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/12/can-children-with-autism-recover-if-so-how/#comment-54838</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 13:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1713#comment-54838</guid>
		<description>There are some studies on CAM use by autistic children. See Wong (2008). That&#039;s where I got the 40% figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some studies on <span class="caps">CAM</span> use by autistic children. See Wong (2008). That&#8217;s where I got the 40% figure.</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2008/12/can-children-with-autism-recover-if-so-how/#comment-54837</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=1713#comment-54837</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;&quot;&gt;How is that even possible, considering that CAM is used by 40% of autistic children?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Is the number really that high?  Maybe it&#039;s just different in my part of Ontario, but I haven&#039;t run into nearly that level of CAM use among the parents that we&#039;ve known in the past 11 years.  Maybe melatonin if you count that, but I&#039;ve known very few parents in real life who even go as far as the GF/CF diet.  I&#039;d be interested to know if we really are that far off of the average up here, or if possibly it&#039;s just something that parents don&#039;t talk about much here.  I&#039;ve certainly known a few people who have &quot;tried everything&quot;, but they seem to be few and far between in my experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>
<blockquote cite="">How is that even possible, considering that <span class="caps">CAM</span> is used by 40% of autistic children?</p></blockquote>
<p>Is the number really that high?  Maybe it&#8217;s just different in my part of Ontario, but I haven&#8217;t run into nearly that level of <span class="caps">CAM</span> use among the parents that we&#8217;ve known in the past 11 years.  Maybe melatonin if you count that, but I&#8217;ve known very few parents in real life who even go as far as the GF/CF diet.  I&#8217;d be interested to know if we really are that far off of the average up here, or if possibly it&#8217;s just something that parents don&#8217;t talk about much here.  I&#8217;ve certainly known a few people who have &#8220;tried everything&#8221;, but they seem to be few and far between in my experience.</p>
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