Liar Liar

24 Apr

Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy are very critical of vaccines. They assert that vaccines cause autism.

Criticising vaccines is a dangerous business. Vaccines are arguably one of the greatest, if not the greatest, medical advances in history. Anyone whose causes people to stop vaccinating their children runs the risk of being blamed for illness, permanent injury and death if/when the diseases return.

Mr. Carrey seems aware of this. In his recent blog piece he made a point of noting:

We have never argued that people shouldn’t be immunized for the most serious threats including measles and polio

This statement bothered me enough that I discussed it in two pieces (here and here) about measles outbreaks in Wales and the US.

I wanted to highlight the fact that the website for Mr. Carrey’s organization (Generation Rescue) includes language specifically telling people to avoid the measles vaccine.

Even after blogging that, somehow Mr. Carrey’s statement statement still bothered me. Then I remembered why.

A year ago, Mr. Carrey’s movie, “Horton Hears a Who”, was in theaters. One group in New Mexico decided to offer a screening of Horton with an added benefit: free vaccinations for children who came.

This didn’t sit well with Mr. Carrey, who decided to put a stop to the free vaccination program. According to Lisa Akerman of TACA (Talk About Curing Autism, another group that has had Jenny McCarthy as a spokes-person):

Once word from the autism community (Who-ville in this case) got to the Carrey & McCarthy super team about this story of a New Mexico vaccination plot things got a brewing. After his morning coffee, Jim made a few calls this morning on behalf of the autism community.

Following a long discussion with his representatives at Fox Entertainment – Who-ville – once again through Horton – was heard. The New Mexico test market of drive thru vaccines while at the movies with your children was stopped. Halted by Horton himself…

So, Mr. Carrey doesn’t “argue” that people shouldn’t be immunized. He just stops them from being immunized.

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58 Responses to “Liar Liar”

  1. me.yahoo.com/a/TuRz.joYnfzpKUWMPSYwTtN6HTLFunmLzPblUMkn April 29, 2009 at 22:59 #

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    You are using the DSM definition incorrectly as descibed above re cultural beliefs.
    You seem to be keen on CVS and varicella immunisations but dont quote your data which you imply contradicts the fact that CVS is extremly rare.
    You are unable to provide figures/references re your claims of cost-effectiveness of the most recent immunisations at their current price.
    You seem to be confused.

  2. me.yahoo.com/a/TuRz.joYnfzpKUWMPSYwTtN6HTLFunmLzPblUMkn April 30, 2009 at 08:12 #

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    Also if varicella hepatitis B and rotavirus immunisations are so cost-effective why are Western governments e.g. the UK government dragging their feet introducing them into the immunisation schedule?

    On a side-note it is interesting to note that former US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has millions of dollars of shares in the company that makes Tamiflu – another coincidence.

  3. dedj April 30, 2009 at 15:16 #

    “You are using the DSM definition incorrectly as descibed above re cultural beliefs”

    I have already explained my position on this. Provide the basis for your challenge.

    “You seem to be keen on CVS and varicella immunisations but dont quote your data which you imply contradicts the fact that CVS is extremly rare”

    Sorry billy, but no-one was talking exclusively about the CVS until YOU did. You have still not provided an explanation for why you cherry-picked CVS when the original post you were responding to was talking about much broader varicella implications.

    “You are unable to provide figures/references re your claims of cost-effectiveness of the most recent immunisations at their current price.”

    Sorry billy, but that simply isn’t my job, nor is it actually true. You have already shown ability to find and access articles – including the one you alledge showed the exact opposite of what they actually concluded – that indicate the cost-effectiveness of vaccines. You have still not provided a justification for why you have directly and explictly contradicted your own sources.

  4. me.yahoo.com/a/TuRz.joYnfzpKUWMPSYwTtN6HTLFunmLzPblUMkn April 30, 2009 at 17:35 #

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    Check your posts for
    1. Your claim that delusions are “non-culturally acquired” and then call me delusional when it is obvious that the theoretical association between immunisations is culturally-acquired even though not proven.
    2. The fact that CVS was a reason to promote the varicella immunisation programme was introduced by another poster which you then defended as not being a rare disease.
    3. You cannot produce the cost-efficacy of the more recent immunisation programmes when the immunisations are costed at their current price.
    4. You cannot explain why, if varicella, hepatitis B and rotavirus immunisations are so cost-effective why are Western governments e.g. the UK government dragging their feet introducing them into the immunisation schedule?

    p.s.You continue to call me Billy for some unknown reason. Are you deluded?

  5. me.yahoo.com/a/TuRz.joYnfzpKUWMPSYwTtN6HTLFunmLzPblUMkn April 30, 2009 at 23:35 #

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    Re the immunisation industry and swine flu – this is what some people even some officials are thinking which suggests that distrust in the immunisation industry is not delusional.

    http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/world/04/28/09/indonesian-minister-says-swine-flu-could-be-man-made

  6. dedj May 1, 2009 at 01:05 #

    “1. Your claim that delusions are “non-culturally acquired” and then call me delusional when it is obvious that the theoretical association between immunisations is culturally-acquired even though not proven.”

    Socially-acquired or peer-acquired are not the same thing as culturally-acquired. There is nothing in your culture that requires you to have a belief in vaccine causation in order to be a member of that culture. You are avoiding addressing your inital error in your challenge to my inital definition. This is about defintions, now – after losing – you are suddenly pretending it was actually about appropriate application – another issue entirely. Not cool dude.

    “2.”

    The intial error of focusing on CVS was yours and your alone. You have not even attempted to defend this error, instead prefering to avoid the question completely, despite being told who and where you can get your requested information.

    “3.”

    We’ve already done this to death. Explain yourself properly or move on.

    “4.”

    Cost-effectiveness is not the only measure used when deciding to initiate or not initiate a treatment programme. You should know this if you want to be taken seriously.

    There are many reasons for avoiding national programmes such as: a aversion to nationalisation, the fall-out from the purchaser provider system, the current regionalised structure (and restructuring) of the NHS, political lobbying and political power-play, as well as avoidance of start-up costs. It’s not as simple as you make it out to be.

    “p.s.”

    It’s because you spell, structure sentences, cling to totally the wrong arguements and throw out insults exactly like a regular here – and on related blogs – known as billy, to the point where it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that you are billy. Despite the popularity of this blog, there are very few people who are like billy. All of the others use their real names, or never cease to use the same signature arguements.

    Now, go back to the original point you were trying to make and stop wasting everyones time with distracting word games.

  7. nt4i May 1, 2009 at 08:55 #

    “2. The fact that CVS was a reason to promote the varicella immunisation programme was introduced by another poster which you then defended as not being a rare disease.”

    Actually I introduces CVS as just one example of a non-fatal devastating affect of chicken pox in response to a specific if rhetorical question. Its a subject that is of great concern to me right now but I wish I hadn’t as i don’t have to time to research and list all the other possible implications of vaccine preventable diseases.

    You still haven’t answered my question – Why is it that anti-vaxxers can’t see past death when it comes to effects of disease, but quite happily list anything and everything as side-effects of vaccines with no evidence whatsoever?

  8. me.yahoo.com/a/TuRz.joYnfzpKUWMPSYwTtN6HTLFunmLzPblUMkn May 1, 2009 at 13:45 #

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    “Socially-acquired or peer-acquired are not the same thing as culturally-acquired”- You are splitting hairs now.

    CVS was introduced by another poster – pleas read above.

    You cannot provide the cost-effectiveness of the latter immunisations, cannot explain why Western countries are not taking up the new immunisation programmes and are now moving away from the cost-effectivenss argument as a distraction.

    You are deluded if you think I am someone called Billy whoever he is. Perhaps you could provide some evidence to confirm that you are not deluded or simply libellous as well as being abusive.

    “after losing”
    Discuusion is not about winning or losing. Autism is not a competition.

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