Your point about Autism Every Day and your own behaviour as a child is a good point – no one who protested that film (that I know of) was suggesting that the kids behaviour was particularly severe or not severe. They were (I was) protesting that the film showed an inaccurate portrayal of autism. Autism is not unremittingly bad. Neither is it unremittingly good. To show films that infer either is misleading.

Blogs like mine and the one you find particularly annoying are not suggesting that autism is a gift to be celebrated but a reality that has bad things and yes, good things too. And that it is OK to acknowledge these good things and celebrate them. Possibly even have pride in them.

I don’t think this is true. In fact, many ND autistics engage Mitchell, Cresp, Crosby on a regular basis, even though this is clearly not a good use of anyone’s time.

Clearly,we are never going to get anywhere,with an attitude like that.If ever an issue called for open debate,and listening to all sides,this is it.

My first exposure to neurodiversity was reading message boards like Wrong Planet,and Aspies For Frreedom,and reading news stories about Autistic Pride Day,an idea I still offensive.I once tried posting over at AFF,and I was banned,because they said I was fear mongering,by portraying autism as being worse than it really was.This proved to be a recurring theme,in every neurodiversity blog,video,what have you,I have seen.

Even if they do not practice censorship.

Roger, I’ve been involved with various people in the neurodiversity movement since 2003 and I can say, hand on heart I’ve never heard anyone say they would hold an autistic person desiring a cure in low regard. I’d also have no truck with a movement that excluded low functioning autistics as my child is low functioning/severely autistic.

Could you show me a link or two of the sort of thing you’re describing going on?

Well how about this:

The defining characteristic of a curebie is a fanatical desperation to destroy a child’s autistic traits in their entirety. Autism takes on a separate and distinct identity in the curebie mind; it is personified as a demonic foe that must be defeated at all costs. The child ceases to be seen as a sentient person and instead is treated as if he were a battleground for a cosmic struggle between good and evil.

http://autisticbfh.blogspot.co.....e-ism.html

It is this seeming denial of severe disability,be it low functioning autism,or autism,with mitochondrial disease,that is my number one complaint with many people who advocate neurodiversity.

Certain neurodiversity activists,and bloggers,will claim that the way autistics are treated by society is worse than anything that autistics will experience from their disease.

This is as good an example as any

http://autismcrisis.blogspot.c.....utism.html

I say that’s bull.Yes some of the statements Ms.Dawson cites are pretty horrendous,but no more so than being a child who has been eloping,who has just come around from a state of semiconciousness,and found they have wandered for miles,and are completely lost.Seizures,stroke like episodes,self mutilation (Which you rarely outgrow.),destroying furniture,electronics etc,and not being able to stop yourself at the time.severe social isolation,and lack of verbal skills.Nope,none of these are as bad as people saying you’re worthless.

Sticks and stones,and all that.Many autistics,myself included,have such emotional impairments, that we are unaffectedd by what people say about us.

I see things like the stink that was raised a few years ago over the video “Autism Every Day” and the “Don’t Speak For Me” campaign as a prime example of neurodiversity denying how severe autism can be.I’ve seen “Autism Every Day”,and I find it pretty mild compared to how I acted as a child.I see this latest video as more of the same.The message I took away from “Autism Every Day” was not that it portrayed autism unrealistically,but that the parents who were complaining about their children,clearly were not getting the right kind of services,and support,or enough of it.

Autism for me is part of a complex medical syndrome,I cannot separate one from the other.Those who say their autism is an integral part of them,ought to be able to understand this.Infections, seizures,and metabolic strokes,all make my autism worse,and all are frequent occurrences.It varies greatly in severity.One feeds upon the other.There is no joy in in,to quote one blog,I find especially unreadable.This is why I am pro-cure.

Those neurodiversity individuals aren’t acting in your son’s best interest. ASAN isn’t advocacy for all autistics. They aren’t pushing for a lot of help aside from helping those on the spectrum who have the means to help themselves. The high-functioning stereotype of ND is meaningful and necessary. Very few of ND’s adherents are low functioning. The unsatisfying acceptance you favor is not just. It can’t be argued that ND would let autistics get cured if they chose to, considering cure won’t even be possible without the research that ND opposes and tries to block.

daedalus, ND does not respect the perspective of all who they have discussions with. They don’t respect the perspectives of parents who only want to act in their childrens’ interest, or even of autistics who favor cure. They have listened to the perspectives, but have addressed them in evasive ways and have vilified contrary opinions. Sometimes ND individuals repudiate the way that the contrary opinions of other autistics were self-formed. It’s not necessarily expected of ND to agree with the pro-cure autistics, but they won’t let them have their own way by approving of a cure for those who want one, and they talk as if their anti-cure view is had almost unanimously by autistics despite the apparent disagreement, so there’s no democratic principle in ND.

Of course I do,but from what I have observed,a large per centage of the neurodiversity movement is not willing to listen to autistics who do not believe as they do.

I don’t think this is true. In fact, many ND autistics engage Mitchell, Cresp, Crosby on a regular basis, even though this is clearly not a good use of anyone’s time.

Many claim to speak for all autistics,when clearly they never can.

I’ve seen this claim before, and yet no one has been able to produce an instance of an ND autistic claiming to speak for all autistics.

One problem is,obviously,the higher functioning autistics,and mostly non autistic aspies,at that,have dominated the discussion far too long.

Autistics who actively oppose neurodiversity are intellectually high functioning too. Do you see why this is?

I think you are confusing “listening to” with “agreeing with”.

Listening to and respecting everyone’s perspective is one of the founding principles of the Neurodiversity movement, and something which everyone who subscribes to it takes very seriously. Censoring someone because of the content of their comment is anathema to the Neurodiverse. My understanding is that individuals have (virtually) only been censored not because of the content of their ideas but because their comments have been abusive, bullying, threatening, or spam. To make the claim you have made without being able to back it up is analogous to a blood libel.

Could you show me a link or two of the sort of thing you’re describing going on?

One problem is,obviously,the higher functioning autistics,and mostly non autistic aspies,at that,have dominated the discussion far too long.They would give the impression to anyone,autistic or not,that they ARE the neurodiversity movement.This is why a lot of bloggers,believe you are ashamed of lower functioning,or more disabled autistics.

And no,I have not been reading this blog for more than a year.I discovered it during the Hannah Poling brouhaha.I don’t know how long you have been up,but for two years prior to that,I was in one of the worst periods of major autistic regression of my life,and wasn’t really aware of much of anything else.

I don’t see a need for my child to be cured, xe seems fine and perfect to me – but maybe thats a fathers doting eye – but if xe ever wanted to be cured (and obviously such a thing would have to exist first) then I would do all I could to help xyr. I don’t think I’ve ever met a neurodiversity advocate who advocates not letting people fulfil their wishes. Such a thing (an autistic person self advocating and being denied by someone else) goes against the very core of neurodiversity.

So what about my earlier question Roger, don’t you think its right that autistic people have a participative voice in the autism debates(s)?

What about autistics who want to be cured of their autism? Would they be able to have this choice, and make this decision of their own free will ?

Of course. Why wouldn’t they? For all I know, 99% of autistics might decide to try this cure. Maybe few would.

But this is like asking: “When time travel is invented, do you think a lot of people will decide to go back in time? Will they be allowed to?”