Go home. You left your bath running. Your lino’s peeling and it’s pissing through into your lower neighbour’s flat! You aren’t up to dealing with topics here – you read with an agenda, rather than with an open mind, and you misinterpret seemingly quite intentionally.

Besides… you’re derailing a serious topic and annoying the living piss out of many reasonable people.

“You are not amongst the people that need to be convinced of it’s usefullness, so what you think is irrelevant.” What’s that supposed to mean?
I wasn’t presented with a lot of evidence, and what you said before showed it, and I didn’t let that go unacknowledged.

“the social model, and the adaptive and compensatory frames of reference, are approaches to assessing and providing for health care needs.”
I did see something regarding the social model being applied to improve the application of health care, but that was all I saw.

“(yet you’ve magically changed your arguement again – fancy that)” Please, stop being so cocky.

What is the “adaptive” industry you are referring to?

There is no disproving the fortunate characteristics of those on your side.

I don’t think you really expected me to look up any of the things you mentioned. I saw a source that said that removal of barriers won’t get rid of problems that come with certain types of impairment.
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/disabil.....aliton.pdf

Another source says that the switch from the medical to the social model of disability “has meant that in some areas the NHS has withdrawn attention and resources from intellectual disability”
http://www.intellectualdisabil.....re_pg.html

“You cant even come up with any even halfway decent arguements except ‘I aint seen nuthin’.” If something can’t be observed, nobody should be expected to believe it. I won’t debate you all as one would have to debate with the clergy.
“Your knowledge base is your responsibility and yours only.” If you say something is true, it’s up to you to prove it.

Well guess what Billy? You better start coming up with arguements against the social model etc etc, that are better than “I’m not convinced”

If you can’t tell us why you ‘not being convinced’ should actually matter to anyone outside of your room, then do so. Anything else is just Billy-bluster.

You are not amongst the people that need to be convinced of it’s usefullness, so what you think is irrelevant.

That you claim to have not been presented evidence is not only false, but irrelevant. You really don’t get that (in this context) the social model, and the adaptive and compensatory frames of reference, are approaches to assessing and providing for health care needs.

You are claiming that you have never been presented with evidence (yet you’ve magically changed your arguement again – fancy that), yet such evidence is in entry level textbooks, has been in clinical use for some time (you’ve yet to answer why the adaptive industry is so prevalant if it doesn’t work) and presents no problem for the actual people who do actually matter.

“there shouldn’t be a reason for you to not know what I’m referring to, particulary when I talk of the characteristics of those on your side”

Oh but there should be. You have made demonstratebly false accusations against ‘my side’ with zero backup. You have been repeatedly reffered to examples that contradict you, yet you accept nothing. You demand evidence be handed to you in exactly the format you demand, but dont give out a bean and yet expect us to accept your say so.

If you cannot see what is wrong with your behaviour and your demands, then there is no helping you.

You have gone over this ground with many people, many times, and have learnt nothing. You have been given more than enough clues to get up off your arse and find things out for yourself.

You are not one of the people whose opinion on this will ever matter at any level.

I fail to see why I should continue to debate with a person who clearly has not even begun to take any responsibility for thier own learning. You cant even come up with any even halfway decent arguements except ‘I aint seen nuthin’.

Well guess what buddy? Nobody cares. Your knowledge base is your responsibility and yours only. Time for you to grow some and live up to it.

Pony up some real evidence or clear your lazy ass off out of here.

I looked up “NHS social model”, and didn’t really come across what you said I would. I don’t deny that the model has been adopted by the trusts and organizations. But I see no evidence of how they actually applied it to improve real life situations involving mental disability. I’ve seen the rhetoric numerous times, but haven’t heard of many details of what they do or cause to be done regarding that.

I don’t need to present evidence of common knowledge of what is going on around here. As someone who is sufficiently familiar with the issues and individuals involved, there shouldn’t be a reason for you to not know what I’m referring to, particulary when I talk of the characteristics of those on your side. I’ve looked up things before that were presented to me, although I haven’t talked about them.

It is not an exaggeration to claim that you have been provided with multiple sources multiple times. I’ve personally witnessed it, and even contributed to it. I know that I have personally given you key words for google, names of professions that can advise you, and names of models and frames of reference that you can look up. Others have provided you with direct references to key texts, and key authours.

For you to claim that ‘the rhetoric hasn;t been practically implemented’ is demonstratably false, as you would already know had you bothered to follow my previous advice of googling “NHS social model”. You would have found that several Trusts already have adopted the social model and have done for years. You would, had you looked up the frames of reference reffered to above, the adaptive and compensatory FOR, known that they are already in clinical use and have been for years.

In most discussions, these would be seen as giving you key pointers for where to go next. That you will only accept, er. well , you never accept anything, so your opinion over what has and has not been laid before you is going to be dismissive anyway. That you don’t think you have been presented with much is to be expected of any person who has decided a priori that they must be right. It’s laughable that you think your claim is therefore valid.

You have been told all of this before. Your response has never referenced anything outisde of your own experience. Ever.

Anyway, your hypocrisy stinks. You state your opinion as if it’s self evident, but pi55 and moan “Help! Help! I’m being oppressed!” anytime someone else does the same. You demand evidence, yet present nothing, even when asked specifically.

Nothing anyone says even sparks you to go and find things out for yourself. You implicitly demand to have things handed to you, ironically from the very professional literature you dismiss and despise.

We have had this conversation over and over again before. You have yet to learn a thing. It’s clear that you don’t want to.

I feel as if these conversations are actually the result of you deliberately manipulating situations so that we can feed back into your own self-perception.

If you want people to treat you the way you demand, you best start giving something in return. Moaning, snide insults and laughably transparent denials don’t cut it.

Put some effort in for once or please leave.