Your Baby’s Best Shot: Why Vaccines Are Safe and Save Lives

12 Jun

There are a lot of vaccine books out there. Some bad. Some really bad. Some good. Some very, very long. One that I like that I’ve got on my desk at work is “Vaccine and Your Child. Separating Fact from Fiction” by Paul Offit and Charlotte Moser. It’s a good book for the new parent. Short sections take on the facts about vaccines in general and each specific vaccine.

A new book is in the works, to be published in August. Your Baby’s Best Shot: Why Vaccines Are Safe and Save Lives. This looks like a good one to recommend to the new parent.

Here’s the blurb:

Parents can easily be bombarded by conflicting messages about vaccines a dozen times each week. One side argues that vaccines are a necessary public health measure that protects children against dangerous and potentially deadly diseases. The other side vociferously maintains that vaccines are nothing more than a sop to pharmaceutical companies, and that the diseases they allegedly help prevent are nothing more than minor annoyances. An ordinary parent may have no idea where to turn to find accurate information.

Your Baby’s Best Shot is written for the parent who does not have a background in science, research, or medicine, and who is confused and overwhelmed by the massive amount of information regarding the issue of child vaccines. New parents are worried about the decisions that they are making regarding their children’s health, and this work helps them wade through the information they receive in order to help them understand that vaccinating their child is actually one of the simplest and smartest decisions that they can make.

Covering such topics as vaccine ingredients, how vaccines work, what can happen when populations don’t vaccinate their children, and the controversies surrounding supposed links to autism, allergies, and asthma, the authors provide an overview of the field in an easy to understand guide for parents.

In an age when autism diagnoses remain on the rise, when a single infectious individual can help spark an epidemic in three countries, when doctors routinely administer an often bewildering array of shots, and when parents swear their babies were fine until their first dosage of the MMR, the authors hope this book will serve as a crucial resource to help parents understand this vitally important issue.

You can read more on their facebook page.

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273 Responses to “Your Baby’s Best Shot: Why Vaccines Are Safe and Save Lives”

  1. Low Budget Dave June 12, 2012 at 02:43 #

    I thought Paul Offit was paid by the vaccine industry.

    • Chris June 12, 2012 at 03:33 #

      He got a one time payment along with his co-researchers for a vaccine patent. His real job is:

      Dr. Offit is Chief of Infectious Diseases at The Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia and the Maurice R. Hilleman Professor of Vaccinology and professor of Pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine.

      The one thing to remember is that he knows what he is writing about.

      • futuredave5 June 12, 2012 at 17:44 #

        We should just point out that he was reprimanded by Congress for voting on vaccine policies for which he had financial conflicts. Also, his chair at the Children’s Hospital is paid for by Merck, which by any definition represents a continuing conflict of interest.
        Generally speaking, I try to evaluate every subject based on the science, and not on the financial motives. But Offit published articles that accused thousands of people like me of being bad parents because we dared to question his merchandise. That’s not science, that’s shouting down your opponents.
        I dislike heavy-handed tactics. We continued to vaccinate my son right up until our pediatrician instructed us to stop, but Offit and the vaccine industry insist that we are somehow endangering all the children in the world because we chose to get 12 of a certain series of vaccine instead of 14.
        I don’t have a medical degree, but I know bad science when I see it.

      • autismjungle June 12, 2012 at 19:27 #

        futuredave5, you are lying. Offitt voted for a different rotavirus vaccine than the one he created. When Rotateq (the one he helped create) was placed before the board, Offitt recused himself. He was never reprimanded. Please stop with the libel.

      • Chris June 12, 2012 at 21:01 #

        We should just point out that he was reprimanded by Congress for voting on vaccine policies for which he had financial conflicts.

        Citation needed.

        Fortunately for you the ACIP has minutes online to check on his voting record. He was on the ACIP when RotaShield was approved, and he was not when RotaTeq was approved. Here are the ACIP minutes where RotaTeq was added to the schedule of recommended vaccines. Please tell me which one of the following is Dr. Offit:

        In favor: Allos, Beck, Campbell, Finger, Gilsdorf, Hull, Lieu, Marcuse, Morse, Morita, Stinchfield, Womeodu, Abramson

        Really, you need to look for primary sources for accusations. Don’t just swallow hook, line and sinker everything you read on certain sites.

      • Liz Ditz (@lizditz) June 13, 2012 at 01:42 #

        futuredave5,

        Paul Offit was never “reprimanded by Congress” for any reason at any time; it’s a tired lie to say he was. Here are the facts.

        http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2012/06/was-paul-offit-md-reprimanded-by-congress-.html

        Your claim that “his chair at the Children’s Hospital is paid for by Merck” is also false.

        The Maurice R. Hilleman Chair in Vaccinology from the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine was created to honor Maurice Hilleman shortly before his death. Yes, Merck made a one-time contribution to to the endowment, in 2005, before Dr. Offit was named to the chair. There is zero conflict of interest, and the facts have been part of the public record for at least four years.

  2. Helkie June 12, 2012 at 06:04 #

    http://www.drpauloffit.org/

    That “payment” made Offit a multi-millionnaire.

    • Lawrence June 12, 2012 at 10:26 #

      Based on a couple of decades of research – making it his life’s work to ease the suffering of children by creating an effective vaccine against an illness that kills tens of thousands?

      Seems like a fair trade to me – seems to have contributed a lot more to humanity than most multi-million dollar athletes have done for us……

      • futuredave5 June 12, 2012 at 17:46 #

        That is not the standard. The standard is that a doctor has to declare his financial conflicts. Offit refuses to do so.

      • Sullivan June 12, 2012 at 18:23 #

        “That is not the standard. The standard is that a doctor has to declare his financial conflicts. Offit refuses to do so.”

        Ironic statement. Paul Offit has declared his COI’s. They are in the past.

        Andrew Wakefield, however, hid his COI’s. Even when asked in a congressional hearing he dodged the fact that he was being funded by litigation.

        “We should just point out that he was reprimanded by Congress for voting on vaccine policies for which he had financial conflict”

        You have many of the common talking points. Have you taken the time to check these?
        For example, point to where this “reprimand” happened. You would be the first. Are you aware that a “congressional reprimand” refers to congress censuring one of their own? I.e. it doesn’t make sense to say that a non congressman has received a “congressional reprimand”.

        Further, can you point to where any complaint levied against Paul Offit was heard by, much less voted upon, by either house of Congress? I am very sure that such an event never happened. That doesn’t stop Dr. Offit’s detractors from propogating what is, in fact, a lie. I’m sorry you got caught up repeating it.

        “I don’t have a medical degree, but I know bad science when I see it”

        With all due respect, given your lack of understanding of the facts surrounding Andrew Wakefield, I would have to disagree with the latter part of this statement.

    • Chris June 12, 2012 at 16:11 #

      So did you ignore Steve Jobs comments on computers because he not only made millions, but billions on Apple? Do you just like the opinions of wealthy people when they comment on things they are not qualified in like Donald Trump, JB Handley, Mark Handley and Jenny McCarthy?

      Because what Dr. Offit made after selling the patent after twenty years of work is immaterial to his expertise in that subject.

      • Sullivan June 12, 2012 at 16:20 #

        “Because what Dr. Offit made after selling the patent after twenty years of work is immaterial to his expertise in that subject.”

        I would disagree. Paul Offit could do almost anything he wanted to after that. He could have walked away. In addition, he could have easily jumped to a much higher paying job in industry given his success with this vaccine.

        He chose to stay chief of infectious disease at a children’s hospital. He still makes rounds.

        What seems to bother people is that he still speaks out against bad science and medicine. Against rumor. The conflict of interest is gone and he still acts the same. That says a lot.

      • Chris June 12, 2012 at 16:58 #

        Okay, that is one way to think about.

        Of course, one reason he was motivated to work on a rotavirus vaccine was seeing a young child die from it. He remembers when kids died of measles in Philadelphia a bit over twenty years ago. He is motivated more by kids’ health than by money.

  3. Science Mom June 12, 2012 at 16:30 #

    That “payment” made Offit a multi-millionnaire.

    Yes and? Do you or your partner work for free? He worked on that technology for twenty years, sounds like pocket change for that amount of work. Chris is right though, if you want to disparage his expertise for that then how do you defend wealthy anti-vaxxers who aren’t even operating in the realm of their ‘expertise’?

    Chris, did you mean Mark Blaxill?

    • Chris June 12, 2012 at 16:55 #

      Oops… I was thinking of both Mark Blaxill and JB Handley. Both who are wealthy, but absolutely no medical education. Thanks.

  4. DT35 June 12, 2012 at 18:06 #

    Futuredave5 — Do you have a link or citation for the Congressional reprimand you refer to?

    • Liz Ditz (@lizditz) June 12, 2012 at 20:58 #

      I thought I’d done a blog post debunking the “congressional reprimand” canard, but if I did, I can’t find it. I guess one’s in order. Here’s a list of canards commonly used by anti-vaxxers relative to Dr. Offit, together with the facts.

      • Lawrence June 12, 2012 at 23:15 #

        @futuredave – except the fact is he didn’t vote for his own vaccine, but a competitive product.

      • futuredave5 June 12, 2012 at 23:35 #

        As Sullivan pointed out above, “reprimand” not the correct term. The correct phrase would be: “criticized for a conflict of interest.”

        And technically, it was not Congress, but the “Conflicts of Interest in Vaccine Policy Making Majority Staff Report”, as issued by the Committee on Government Reform.

        Lis’s response is true, for example, that he voted to approve a competing vaccine. If you read the report, it actually explains why they considered his actions a conflict on interest.

      • Sullivan June 13, 2012 at 01:17 #

        One (ONE) congressman criticized Paul Offit. Dan Burton. Frankly, good for Paul Offit. Dan Burton did an awful lot of harm with his campaign to promote the vaccine causation idea.

        It was in these same hearings, called by Dan Burton, that Mr. Burton asked Andrew Wakefield where his source of funding came from. Mr. Wakefield’s answer was something about an internal charity. Congressman Burton never went back to criticize the man who misled him and the American public.

        I’ve read the report. Congressman Burton’s explanation was a major stretch. Voting to approve a competitor’s product was against Dr. Offit’s personal interests.

      • Lawrence June 12, 2012 at 23:41 #

        @futuredave – except your source parrots the lie that Dr. Offitt voted for his own vaccine.

      • Chris June 12, 2012 at 23:51 #

        Please post a link to the actual report. That is a website that has been known to fudge stuff they supposed cut and paste. Again, it is one where the authors are not listed. I believe this is the witch hunt instigated by Rep. Burton, who is not unbiased.Though they do date that report June of 2000, full six years before RotaTeq was approved.

        Again, this is part of getting your information from primary sources.

      • Lawrence June 12, 2012 at 23:52 #

        After reading the full report, it really doesn’t say what the anti-vacation crew says it does.

        It certainly isn’t a reprimand or censure of Dr. Offit.

      • Chris June 12, 2012 at 23:56 #

        “anti-vacation”… curse auto-correction, or are you really waiting for spring break.

        I remember coming across that bit a while ago. I actually found it archived in the congressional website, but I can’t now. But, really, John Stone and/or Clifford Miller just use the fact that it is a non-binding Burton whine fest that includes Paul Offit with others as a way to denigrate him further.

      • Chris June 13, 2012 at 01:30 #

        Sullivan:

        It was in these same hearings, called by Dan Burton, that Mr. Burton asked Andrew Wakefield where his source of funding came from. Mr. Wakefield’s answer was something about an internal charity.

        That I did find! From this Congressional testimony:
        Mr. Burton. Who funded your study, Dr. Wakefield?
        Dr. Wakefield. We did. We have a small charitable
        contribution, but—-
        Mr. Burton. A charitable organization did; I see.
        Dr. Wakefield. We found it a little difficult to get
        funding—-
        Mr. Burton. And yours was done by the Government?
        Dr. Taylor. It was funded by the Medicine Control Agency,
        which is the body charged with responsibility for the safety of
        vaccines and other treatments.
        Mr. Burton. Well, I would be happy to work with the ranking
        Democrat, Mr. Waxman, to get an independent group of doctors/
        scientists that we mutually agree upon to review all of your
        work to come to some kind of a conclusion if that is possible.
        So, since Dr. Wakefield and Professor O’Leary and Dr. Singh
        have all agreed, we would sure like to have yours, and I will
        be happy to write a letter, as I said before, to the
        authorities in England asking for your report, and hopefully,
        we will get that along with the others so we can review them
        side-by-side.

        (… and what was that charity? Well it was cash from the Legal Aid Fund via Richard Barr, that Wakefield kind of sort of well of forgot about)

  5. Science Mom June 12, 2012 at 18:51 #

    I dislike heavy-handed tactics. We continued to vaccinate my son right up until our pediatrician instructed us to stop, but Offit and the vaccine industry insist that we are somehow endangering all the children in the world because we chose to get 12 of a certain series of vaccine instead of 14.

    This is utterly false as well. Please stop foolishly parroting the daft rants of anti-vaxxers. No one would ever argue against a medical indication for stopping vaccines or altering a vaccine schedule. In fact, my experience has been very cooperative paeds with regards to modifying my children’s vaccine schedules. It’s amazing what you can accomplish with a rational discussion of the evidence and not going off on your doctor with a maniacal anti-vaxx rant.

    • futuredave5 June 12, 2012 at 23:16 #

      What? Our pediatrician asked us to stop the vaccine schedule because of increasingly adverse reactions and out-of-range titer tests. If you consider that to be a “maniacal anti-vaxx rant”, then you should change your name to something other than ‘Science Mom’

      • Lawrence June 12, 2012 at 23:39 #

        @futuredave – I believe ScienceMom was reacting to the second part of your post, which is a gigantic straw man.

      • Chris June 12, 2012 at 23:40 #

        The “maniacal anti-vaxx rant” is referring to your comments on Offit and his expertise.

  6. Science Mom June 13, 2012 at 03:19 #

    Yes futuredave5, that was in response to the other part. As I said, medical indications have not been criticised by Dr. Offit or ebil pharma or anyone else for that matter. By the way, adverse reactions (depending upon what they are) are sometimes valid reasons for discontinuing vaccines. “out of range titre tests” are not; they just mean your child had a kick ass humoral response to whatever vaccines given and tested for. There is no such thing as an “out of range titre test” unless it’s on the low side. I’d be more worried about your doctor’s knowledge of immunology than my ‘nym.

    • futuredave5 June 13, 2012 at 11:21 #

      I really should be more even-handed in my responses. You were fair to me, and so I should be fair to you. At least you admitted that my decision might have been correct, even though you disagreed with the thought process.

      At least you did not immediately attack me with quotes from Offit’s book. Please forgive me for being overly sensitive on the subject. I get it a lot.

      Again, I am not a doctor. The doctor told us that the reason the lab provides quantitative measures with a listed upper limit is so the doctor can determine if more testing is recommended. In our case, the doctor requested an RT-PCR, and determined that there was an active measles virus in my son’s stomach.

      This explained to the doctor’s satisfaction that the continuing increase in the IgG scores (most likely) indicated that my son’s immune system would eventually kill the measles virus with no assistance needed.

      In any case, the extremely high (and progressively higher) IgG actually IS a valid reason to discontinue vaccines. If the child is simply immune, then no vaccine is needed. If the child has a measles infection, and they are simply fighting it off the old fashioned way, then no vaccine is needed. So the blanket statement you made is incorrect.

      Scores as high as we were seeing were also consistent with an autoimmune disorder, such as lupus erythematosus. I think the doctor ruled that out, and I did not ask what the vaccine procedures would be in such cases. But my first guess is that the doctor knew what he was doing when he recommended that we discontinue measles vaccines.

      But look at what you are doing. You jumped on the exact same bandwagon I was talking about. You had a limited knowledge of the situation and the science, yet you made a blanket statement that you know more than me or my doctor. You criticized my doctor’s thought process because we decided to discontinue a single vaccine.

      And you are one of the good ones.

      • Lawrence June 13, 2012 at 13:31 #

        Actually, I see little or no criticism of your particular personal situation, but responses to your blanket criticism of Dr. Offit and allusions to “big Pharma.”

        Unlike anti-vaccine advocates in general, we realize that there are children who either cannot or should not be vaccinated, for valid medical reasons.

        Those children, like your own, perhaps, are more reliant on herd immunity to protect them from diseases. The very actions of the anti-vaccination community are putting those children at greater risk.

        In your case, instead of demonizing Dr. Offit, you should be encouraging those that can be vaccinated to do so, for the benefit of your own child’s health.

      • Sullivan June 13, 2012 at 13:57 #

        Can you point to where I “jumped on the same bandwagon”? ( If such bandwagon exists)

        I pointed out that pcr is *not* common, as you asserted. You never addressed that. I can’t recall ever seeing a parent on an online group state they had been recommended a pcr test. Could have happened, but “common”? No. And then there’s the question of whether positive test results are common. How can positive test results be common if the test itself is rare?

        I won’t argue whether your family really got the test or whether it was positive. I will point out that in many points you’ve made which can be verified are incorrect.

  7. Science Mom June 13, 2012 at 19:46 #

    Again, I am not a doctor. The doctor told us that the reason the lab provides quantitative measures with a listed upper limit is so the doctor can determine if more testing is recommended. In our case, the doctor requested an RT-PCR, and determined that there was an active measles virus in my son’s stomach.

    Fair enough; it’s much more helpful with more information. The way you presented it or as I interpreted was that having a high titre in the absence of an active infection was an indication of something wrong when it isn’t. Be careful about how RT-PCR results are interpreted. Whether you are talking about real time or reverse transcription, it’s the same. But they are a snapshot, if you will, of the measles virus that may or may not be replicating or an active infection. Only a culture is definitive for that. PCR is diagnostically confirmatory along with supporting serology in an outbreak situation. It is a normal finding post-vaccination within a rough time frame.

    This explained to the doctor’s satisfaction that the continuing increase in the IgG scores (most likely) indicated that my son’s immune system would eventually kill the measles virus with no assistance needed.

    That is precisely how the vaccine works.

    In any case, the extremely high (and progressively higher) IgG actually IS a valid reason to discontinue vaccines. If the child is simply immune, then no vaccine is needed. If the child has a measles infection, and they are simply fighting it off the old fashioned way, then no vaccine is needed. So the blanket statement you made is incorrect.

    No, while it was a blanket statement; it was correct. Your blanket statement however is just that and doesn’t apply to all vaccines. Let me explain; when a vaccine is administered and the recipient responds normally, as it sounds your child did, then you are going to see a very high IgG titre (and the range of normal is large). In the case of MMR, that titre will probably remain quite high for years, even protective for measles and rubella, not so much for mumps. But will eventually decline below the protective level. In the case of say, DTaP which is a series, the recipient will have a high titre post-vaccination but will then fall very low in a short time, hence the need for a series of 4 doses. So you see a high titre, say six months post-vaccination with DTaP without completing the series is not sufficient reason on it’s own to discontinue it. And please don’t forget that vaccines aren’t permanent immunity with the occasional exception of measles and rubella.

    Scores as high as we were seeing were also consistent with an autoimmune disorder, such as lupus erythematosus. I think the doctor ruled that out, and I did not ask what the vaccine procedures would be in such cases. But my first guess is that the doctor knew what he was doing when he recommended that we discontinue measles vaccines.

    Given how our conversation has been going, I’m going to hazard a guess that there is some missing information here. High antibody titres to vaccine antigens are not indicative of anything like lupus erythematosus. http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/1201/p2179.html

    But look at what you are doing. You jumped on the exact same bandwagon I was talking about. You had a limited knowledge of the situation and the science, yet you made a blanket statement that you know more than me or my doctor. You criticized my doctor’s thought process because we decided to discontinue a single vaccine.

    And look what subsequently transpired with the additional information you provided? It goes both ways you know. ; – )

    • futuredave5 June 14, 2012 at 03:55 #

      True. It is hard to draw the line sometimes, and I tend to take things personally even when they are meant to be comments about society in general. I introduced a very small part of the information because I don’t really understand all of it, and I thought it would make a good example.

      Trust me, though, there is a massive amount of other information. Some of the other tests (outside the range of this discussion) would make for more interesting reading. At least one of the repeat titre tests was added simply because we were having blood drawn anyway.

      I don’t think my doctor ever said that that the high score “indicated” lupus, I think he just said that there were several things that could cause titre tests to continue climbing, and that lupus erythematosus was one of them. That was just a small part of the discussion, though, and I am not sure I am even quoting him properly.

      The good news, though, is that my son is doing well. Language, behaviors, and social are all continuing to improve. And last time we tested, at least, he had all the typical immunity that you would expect from vaccines. And more.

      • Chris June 14, 2012 at 04:11 #

        Just to let you know, that because of my son’s neonatal convulsions he was not given a pertussis vaccine, just the DT with only diphtheria and tetanus components. This was at a time when our county was experiencing a pertussis outbreak (though not as bad as now).

        Since my son depended on herd immunity as an infant and on to his teenage years I made sure any kids he came into contact with were vaccinated. As an adult he finally got protection from pertussis with a Tdap. He still has several learning and behavioral issues from those initial seizures, and the subsequent seizures from a now vaccine preventable disease he had as a toddler.

        Herd immunity is very important for kids who have real medical issues preventing them from getting vaccines. Which is why it is a bit confusing that since you have a child who depends on herd immunity that you are not encouraging all that can get vaccinated to become vaccinated.

  8. Matthew Smith June 25, 2012 at 20:25 #

    The co-author of this book, Stacy Herilhy has anger issues and belongs in a mental hospital. She needs some serious psychological help on finding out who she really is. She has to be right about everything and simply can’t admit when she is wrong about anything in her life. She has the damn balls to write about children when she herself is full of hatred for everyone. She thinks she is so smart because of her IQ when she is not. She lacks compassion for anyone but herself. She is so full of herself and constantly acts as being a victim of this world. Stacy is nothing but MacBeth who Shakespeare wrote about in his play. If one disagrees with her she will find every way to shut out dissent. Karma is a bitch and will bite her in her ass. This individual is to be avoided at all costs. Trust is not what she is about.

    • Sullivan June 25, 2012 at 22:34 #

      “If one disagrees with her she will find every way to shut out dissent.”

      Well, we get to test your hypothesis experimentally. Don’t we?

      You have strongly disagreed with her (and mounted a personal attack on her). Let’s see if she finds “every way to shut out dissent”.

      “She has to be right about everything and simply can’t admit when she is wrong about anything in her life”

      Will you be able to admit you were wrong when your comment stays up here? Even though, given the attack you’ve mounted, I have every right to pull it?

      How long should we give you to test that question? A day? A week?

    • Allison Hagood July 30, 2012 at 00:06 #

      I know that this is an old post (I just found this through a trackback), but I wanted to respond. Just to clarify, “Matthew Smith” is Stacy’s brother, from whom she is long estranged, and who has a pattern of harassing her online.

      • Science Mom July 30, 2012 at 00:15 #

        Ah, thank you Ms. Hagood; that makes much more sense although sad that he feels the need to do that.

      • serenabird July 30, 2012 at 00:16 #

        This is Stacy Herlihy. I would just like to point out that said brother is 37, has been unemployed for a long time and lives at home with my father who kindly prevents him from being homeless. David has also not read the book so he has no business writing about it. I sincerely hope he gets the professional help he clearly needs.

  9. Science Mom June 25, 2012 at 21:41 #

    @ Matthew Smith,

    The co-author of this book, Stacy Herilhy has anger issues and belongs in a mental hospital. She needs some serious psychological help on finding out who she really is.

    I am not familiar with Stacy Herilhy but what does your completely ad hominem rant have to do with facts presented in the book? Do you have an issue with something specific or just don’t like the author? I’d be more interested in the former.

  10. Dr. John Calvin Jones August 29, 2012 at 15:38 #

    As I review the comments, there is one glaring omission. Namely all vaccines are harmful and no vaccine has ever been shown to help any individual, much less a given population. I just completed a review of global infant mortality. Vaccines do nothing to lower IMR. In the industrialized world, vaccines increase IMR. Help your family, friends, and your bank account – say no to all vaccines, take vitamin C and D, stay healthy and stay away from allopathic monsters, and their drugs.

    • Allison August 29, 2012 at 15:44 #

      I’m sorry, but your statement is a lie. What kind of doctor are you?

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 29, 2012 at 15:57 #

        Not a very good one of this is an example of his critical thinking skills.

        Sorry to be so blunt, Dr. ,but I’ve seen your arguments many times already. So you copied existing bad logic and put your name to it. All that shows is that you are unoriginal as well as incorrect.

      • John Calvin Jones, PhD, JD November 17, 2012 at 15:06 #

        Dear Allison, I would be happy to send you the study. I am not attempting to mislead. Further, unlike so many persons with degrees in allopathic medicine, my training includes statistics. Hence, I can read the studies in ways that the vast majority of MDs cannot. Just ask them. They learn nothing about epidemiology or statistical theory. Why is LD-50 the standard?

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) November 18, 2012 at 17:14 #

        It is much harder to build arguments on sand in the days of the internet.

        Harvard student curriculum, first year med school:

        http://www.medcatalog.harvard.edu/courselist.aspx?cl=preclinical1

        AC511.0 Clinical Epidemiology and Population Health
        Directors: Finkelstein, Jonathan Arie
        Credits: 0.00 CREDITS (Required)
        Offered: January
        Location: See mycourses.med.harvard.edu
        Time: 01/07/2013- 02/01/2013; Mon-Friday 8:00- 10:15 AM
        Description: Clinical Epidemiology and Population Health (CEPH) combines teaching of core skills of clinical epidemiology (including biostatistics, study design, and critical reading) as they apply to the care of individuals and populations…

        Where did you get the idea that med students don’t take classes in epidemiology or statistics?

      • Chris November 18, 2012 at 17:27 #

        I doubt Mr. Jones (Phd, not MD) actually understands statistics. He thinks he does, but it is obvious that he does not with his first statement on this article that says: “Namely all vaccines are harmful and no vaccine has ever been shown to help any individual, much less a given population.”

        The only way that can be true is to ignore the drop of deaths from smallpox, polio, measles, diphtheria, tetanus and congenital rubella syndrome. Also it seems that he is ignoring all of the disabilities caused by those diseases like blindness, paralysis and permanent loss of neurological function.

        It he shows up again, I’ll ask him why the incidence of measles in the USA dropped 90% between 1960 and 1970. Though I expect him to declare I have no critical thinking skills and carry on how he has no move overseas to teach.

    • Science Mom August 29, 2012 at 16:37 #

      Allison, a chiropractor, homeopath or naturopath would be my guess. One of those doctor wannabe professions no doubt.

      Nope, my bad not even anyone remotely qualified to comment on health issues: http://www.thepowerhour.com/news2/bio_john_Jones.htm

      • John Calvin Jones, PhD, JD November 17, 2012 at 15:34 #

        Dear Science Mom, I would love to exchange some ideas with you. My knowledge of science and research methods is grounded in my knowledge of statistics. Of course statistical tests are the ONLY means of evaluating scientific hypotheses. We simply measure something, then determine whether the observation was due to chance or the stimulus in question.

        But what does it take to be qualified to comment on health issues? Need I be able to prove that any plants have beneficial effects on the body? Or need I be able to read the arguments of others?

        What about this? My father was a rocket scientists – literally – working for NASA and other contractors. My grandfather was a PhD and university president. My mother was valedictorian and a double major in math and English. Of my siblings, and cousins (7 in all), we have two PhDs, two JDs, three MAs and five college graduates. My sister, who turned down a scholarship to law school to have a baby, has three children. The youngest, was vaccinated the most and earliest in his life relative to all the other cousins, uncles, and aunts. He has severe autism. Is it really genetic?

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) November 17, 2012 at 16:26 #

        This has to be one of the worst arguments by authority I’ve seen in a long time. Your family’s credentials are even less relevant here than yours.

      • Science Mom November 17, 2012 at 22:28 #

        Dear Science Mom, I would love to exchange some ideas with you. My knowledge of science and research methods is grounded in my knowledge of statistics. Of course statistical tests are the ONLY means of evaluating scientific hypotheses. We simply measure something, then determine whether the observation was due to chance or the stimulus in question.

        A knowledge of science is acquired by actually, you know, studying science and conducting research. Statistics are required to collate and evaluate scientific results but do not teach one the scientific method. They are most certainly not the only means of evaluating hypotheses; they are for evaluating the results. One has to have a substantial research background to actually determine if one’s methods adequately test one’s hypothesis.

        In short, you are arrogantly ignorant.

        But what does it take to be qualified to comment on health issues? Need I be able to prove that any plants have beneficial effects on the body? Or need I be able to read the arguments of others?

        You really think a stats background is sufficient to authoritatively speak about health issues? Yes, if you are going to use your degrees as an appeal to authority you should actually have the requisite background in relevant biological sciences which you clearly don’t.

        What about this? My father was a rocket scientists – literally – working for NASA and other contractors. My grandfather was a PhD and university president. My mother was valedictorian and a double major in math and English. Of my siblings, and cousins (7 in all), we have two PhDs, two JDs, three MAs and five college graduates. My sister, who turned down a scholarship to law school to have a baby, has three children. The youngest, was vaccinated the most and earliest in his life relative to all the other cousins, uncles, and aunts. He has severe autism. Is it really genetic?

        As Sullivan stated, this is the most pathetic appeal to authority I think I have ever seen as well. Not to mention the rookie mistake of of confusing correlation with causation. So much for your authority on the scientific method. Do yourself (and the rest of us) a favour and leave off your irrelevant degrees if you are going to comment on disciplines that are clearly outside the realm of your experience. You just look like a pompous ass.

      • Science Mom November 18, 2012 at 17:47 #

        @ Chris, Not only do I believe that “Dr.” Jones won’t be gracing us with his superb academic knowledge but I also don’t think he is even at the American University in BiH anymore.

    • futuredave5 August 29, 2012 at 17:40 #

      Is this the Dr. J.C. Jones from South Texas College? Ph.D in Criminal Law? JD?

      Just wondering.

      • Mir September 10, 2012 at 11:10 #

        Yes – that’s him. I’ve interacted with him personally. He’s a few nuts short of a fruitcake. Apparently, he has not vaccinated his own child, so at least he lives out his ideology.

      • John Calvin Jones, PhD, JD November 17, 2012 at 15:14 #

        Dear FutureDave5. I no longer live in Texas, but did work at STC. I do not have a PhD in criminal law, but in political science. My forte is teaching statistics and research methods.

    • ciaparker January 19, 2013 at 18:36 #

      Thank you for the intelliigence, honesty, and courage of your posts, Dr.Jones. Chris, surely you know that Ph.D.s are referred to with the honorific Dr.? Or did you not call the professors who taught your college courses Dr.? I get a lot of mail to Dr. Parker, although of course I’ve never held myself forth as a physician. Lil, I”m glad you looked me up, and confirmed that I have a law degree. I have never said that I was an active lawyer, though I”ve said several times that I had inactive status. You’ll probably recall that my health has been severely impaired by my (vaccine-derived) MS.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 19, 2013 at 22:00 #

        Ph.D.’s can use the title “Dr.” Without it being honorific. however, using it when discussing medical matters is something I do not agree with.

  11. lilady August 30, 2012 at 00:03 #

    It seems that Dr. John Calvin Jones is that professor from Texas.

    “Dr.” Jones, do you think a PhD in a non-related, non-science field of study and an attorney, qualifies you to even research, no less comment on a science blog?

    • John Calvin Jones, PhD, JD November 17, 2012 at 15:12 #

      Dear Lilady, in fact my PhD in political science from Iowa included a series of courses on statistics, i.e., the stuff of science. Unlike MD training which includes little or no statistics, I, like any one else can read medical studies. I can also review the methodology. What is obvious about the allopathic vaccine industry is that their theory is grounded in the writings of Jenner. As you can see from his 1798 work is that he got a lot of people sick and admitted that there was no immunity to cow pox post inoculation. Still, Jenner did not inject anyone with aluminum or formaldehyde, etc.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) November 17, 2012 at 16:31 #

        Really? You ignore the last 200 years of learning about vaccines in order to challenge Jenner? I’ll give you points for creativity: this is a nice twist on a straw man argument.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) November 18, 2012 at 17:08 #

        Still choosing to argue with Jenner? Is anyone arguing that Jenner’s methods should be used today? Answer: no. My calendar says 2012. When you want to discuss today rather than 1798, drop us a comment.

  12. John Calvin Jones, PhD, JD November 17, 2012 at 15:22 #

    To the editors of the website: I find it disturbing that you allow anonymous name calling. In no way does such improve our understanding. If Mir wants to say that I am “a few nuts short of a fruitcake” I suggest that Mir does a disservice to those who want to talk about science.

    Again, if vaccines work so well, why does the U.S. have the HIGHEST infant mortality rate for countries with relatively high GDP per capita? Note, the U.S. also has the HIGHEST number of vaccines administered to children under 12 months compared to those nations.

    Since 2010, two major studies show that flu shots provide no benefit. The insert for the DTaP by Sanofi-Pasteur admits that they provide no protection against pertussis. What am I missing?

    Lastly, if anyone reviews a comparison of unvaccinated children versus vaccinated we see that the former have little to no autism and no cancer (unless they live in some war zone riddled with depleted uranium munitions or cluster bombs).

    Sincerely

    John Calvin Jones, PhD, JD, MA, MALAS, BSEd

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) November 17, 2012 at 16:15 #

      And here is where you demonstrate that claimed expertise in statistics is not enough. Have you checked how the US defines infant mortality vs other developed countries? (Hint: the US does it differently and in a way that leads to higher rates). Have you looked at how infant mortality rates have trended with time (hint they are going down as the number of vaccines increase).

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) November 17, 2012 at 16:24 #

      Seriously, the “non vaccinated children have little or no autism” argument? Apparently your statistics background gets ignored when you wish to invoke anecdote and rumor to support your arguments.

      • futuredave5 November 17, 2012 at 17:56 #

        I am a big fan of using statistics to evaluate autism treatments. We have known for a while that treatments that seem to help some children are ineffective (or worse) for others.

        Theoretically, statistics could be compiled to determine which sets of symptoms respond best to which treatments. This would be a big help for parents like me, who are willing to try various diets, vitamins, and minerals, as long as they are statistically harmless.

        Statistics are funny things, though. Whenever I read a study that concludes that a certain diet helped 1% of the group involved, it always makes me wonder: “Which 1%?” If you happen to be in that 1%, then the diet might turn out to be great news. Or it might just be a bad result. The difference is important.

        The same is true of vaccines. I suspect that for 99% of users, vaccines do more good than harm. This is a great result, unless you happen to be in the other 1%.

        An appropriate use of statistics would be to try to determine in advance who the 1% is. An inappropriate use of statistics would be to assume that 99% is the same as 100%.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) November 17, 2012 at 18:12 #

        1% would be a gross exaggeration. The presentation is well set up to make it sound reasonable, as though you are accepting that it is a small fraction who are adversely affected by vaccines. But 1% is over exaggerated. Yes, there are fevers and soreness at higher levels, but a mild fever is better than, say, meningitis.

      • futuredave5 November 19, 2012 at 11:47 #

        It was only an example. I don’t know what the percentage is. I get the flu shot every year because I feel it will keep me from getting sick around my son. (Every year, it seems like I get sick afterward. Completely non-scientific.) Theoretically, only a small percentage of people get bad reactions from flu shots, and in general, the reactions are not as bad as the flu. But then, theoretically, only a small percentage of people get the flu.

        Let’s say that 1% of kids had bad reactions to the tetanus vaccine. The reactions might be easier to solve than tetanus, or they might not, depending on how bad the reactions are. But it is not fair to compare the symptoms to tetanus, since very few kids get tetanus, even without the shots.

        So a 1% (maybe, assumed) chance of tetanus shot reaction compared to a 2% chance (maybe, assumed) of tetanus? A calculated risk. Measles is different, because more other people are involved, but it is still a calculated risk.

    • Science Mom November 17, 2012 at 23:37 #

      To the editors of the website: I find it disturbing that you allow anonymous name calling. In no way does such improve our understanding. If Mir wants to say that I am “a few nuts short of a fruitcake” I suggest that Mir does a disservice to those who want to talk about science.

      You’re not exactly doing a service to science by abusing it you know.

      Again, if vaccines work so well, why does the U.S. have the HIGHEST infant mortality rate for countries with relatively high GDP per capita? Note, the U.S. also has the HIGHEST number of vaccines administered to children under 12 months compared to those nations.

      Some background you have there; you fell for a blatant anti-vaxx trope that any first year stats grad student could take down. http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2011/05/oh-goodness-here-i-wanted-to-go-to-bed.html and http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2011/06/unanswered-question.html my esteemed co-author (a neuroscientist) and an honest one at that shredded your source for an obvious abuse of statistics. Go ahead and try to defend your claim; I’m game.

      Since 2010, two major studies show that flu shots provide no benefit. The insert for the DTaP by Sanofi-Pasteur admits that they provide no protection against pertussis. What am I missing?

      And more dishonesty and ignorance. Neither of those studies, Cochrane systematic reviews I presume (you should actually read them) stated flu jabs provide no benefit; they estimated the effectiveness which is lower than previously thought. That is science Jones. And please show me where Sanofi-Pasteur states DTaP provides no protection against pertussis.

      Lastly, if anyone reviews a comparison of unvaccinated children versus vaccinated we see that the former have little to no autism and no cancer (unless they live in some war zone riddled with depleted uranium munitions or cluster bombs).

      Oh really, and what mythical study demonstrates this?

      Sincerely

      John Calvin Jones, PhD, JD, MA, MALAS, BSEd

      A sure sign of insecurity and well something else in my experience.

    • Mir January 16, 2013 at 05:32 #

      Dear Dr. Jones, I was just legitimately reading and responding with the truth. In English, the word “legitimate” comes from the Latin word legere meaning to read. I’m sure you wouldn’t fault me for reading your statements, and then answering in return. Perhaps I had a hasty gut reaction to your pot stirring, but this forum is for all. If your willing to exchange some ideas, I’m definitely interested.

    • ciaparker January 19, 2013 at 18:39 #

      You are totally qualified to post comments on a science blog! I am going to refrain from listing the commenters here who cannot compare in any way with the qualifications of this gentlemen, but all you have to do to find them is scroll up and down.

  13. Shorty November 17, 2012 at 16:26 #

    “The insert for the DTaP by Sanofi-Pasteur admits that they provide no protection against pertussis.”

    Perlease with all your expertise and your JD and everything, Doctor Jones, can you refer us to the admission by this vaccine manufacturer that its vaccine for pertussius provides no protection against pertussis?

    Or is this another piece of bullshit that people like you spread around the web so as to manipulate the gullible. Show us you are not a troll by producing the document in which you say that a multinational corporation admits that its product is worthless.

    • ciaparker January 19, 2013 at 18:40 #

      Google (CDC) Dr. Schuchat’s statement last summer about the acellular pertussis vaccine not being very effective, and how most of those who got it in last year’s epidemic had been appropriately vaccinated.

      • lilady January 19, 2013 at 19:07 #

        Here CIA Parker is what Dr. Schuchat stated about acellular pertussis vaccine, and secondary vaccine failure (waning immunity) that is experienced by youngsters who got the acellular pertussis vaccine. That same “waning immunity” is experienced by people who actually contracted “natural” pertussis infection. (Immunology 101 and Bacteriology 101):

        http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/Vaccines/33829

        “…”The switch we made … from whole-cell pertussis to acellular pertussis in 1997 may impact how long vaccination lasts,” Anne Schuchat, MD, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases at the CDC said during a Thursday phone briefing with reporters.

        All pertussis vaccines in the U.S. are currently made with acellular pertussis. Children receive a five-dose series of the DTaP vaccination beginning at age 2 months, followed by a booster Tdap shot at age 11 or 12….”

        The vaccination that contained whole-cell pertussis, DTwP, was removed from the market in 1997 because of concerns over a possible — though unproven — link to chronic neurologic problems, as well as more severe injection-site reactions and fever, Schuchat said…” (The “chronic” neurological disease Schuchat refers to is Dravet Syndrome…which turned up when kids who prevailed in Vaccine Court were tested and the genetic syndrome was found responsible for their progressive neurological disorder).

        Read the rest of the link article I provided to see that waning immunity in kids who were fully immunized with acellular vaccine is acknowledged….hence the recommendation to boost immunity with the Tdap vaccine.

        What an utterly heartless person you are Parker. You’ve read how infants have died from pertussis, because they were too young to have started or completed the primary pertussis series, yet you still continue to spread your venomous fear, uncertainty and doubt to undermine public health initiatives to protect vulnerable babies from this horrific bacterial illness.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 19, 2013 at 21:54 #

        No, you Google it and tell us what statement you are using. Aside from the laziness you are demonstrating you have repeatedly made false statements. Back yourself up.

  14. lilady November 17, 2012 at 17:32 #

    ” The insert for the DTaP by Sanofi-Pasteur admits that they provide no protection against pertussis. What am I missing?”

    Here’s the Sanofi-Pasteur package insert that John Calvin Jones references…perhaps he could point us to that section that he based his statement on?

    https://www.vaccineshoppe.com/image.cfm?image_type=product_pdf&pi=400-10

    And, from his own “Power Hour” biography, we have this *gem*

    “When these children come to my class at the university, they are hit with a tidal wave of information and stripped of the notion of their genetic inferiority. Some accept my teachings as empowering, others – of course – take great offense and complain – to department chairs, deans, and even university presidents. When their complaint is boiled down to its essence it comes in the form of an attack on the information I present – because the information is new and or unfamiliar. As such, the course material would demand thinking. Students long-trained in copying and programmed not to think then come to an impasse, for how can they “succeed” and earn a good grade when no one ever told them about corporate subsidies, the links between breast cancer and deodorant, the inanity of hog lots, or the abuses generated in the making of Disney toys. Because the students have not been trained to think, to analyze information, to integrate and critique data, they have little to no capacity to make sense of what I present. Hence, it must be “the teacher’s fault.”

    This is the type of complaint I get – over and over. And as a result, I have not been renewed at a number of positions – in Iowa, Louisiana, and now Texas. Apparently it matters not whether I teach at public or private institutions – the student complaints are the same. And their levels of comprehension and capacity to evaluate my course material, much less the political realities around them, are poor.

    Take care,

    John Calvin Jones, PhD, JD
    1804 W. Washington Street
    Brownsville, TX”

    BTW Mr. Jones, my husband is an attorney and he knows diddly-squat about immunology. He has been invited to lecture post-grad students at McGill University, Canada and at Donau University, Austria, because of his international law credentials.

    Matt, you hooked a genuine crank anti-vaccine, anti-science ex-professor.

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) November 17, 2012 at 17:46 #

      I assume he’s tenured. Otherwise I can’t see how he could express such contempt for his students.

  15. lilady November 17, 2012 at 18:01 #

    @ Matt:

    “I assume he’s tenured. Otherwise I can’t see how he could express such contempt for his students.”

    He’s burned through all his academia bridges in the United States. I think this is the same John Calvin Jones…

    http://www.aubih.edu.ba/en/news/news.php?ano=062

  16. Shorty November 17, 2012 at 18:35 #

    “Of course statistical tests are the ONLY means of evaluating scientific hypotheses.” So says Doctor Jones.

    So, not only is he incapable of reading a package insert (or even being aware a priori that manufacturers’ legal departments would not advise them to publish statements admitting that their products don’t work), but he knows next to nothing about the methodologies of science.

    The point, of course, is not to ridicule this gentleman, but perhaps to impress on him and others that it is a serious thing to make false statements whilst professing to have some special knowledge or training.

    At the end of the day, vaccine safety is about protecting children, so I think if Doctor Jones is a person of integrity, he will now apologise and dedicate himself to establishing a better grasp on matters over which he holds forth.

  17. lilady November 17, 2012 at 19:19 #

    “Dear Lilady, in fact my PhD in political science from Iowa included a series of courses on statistics, i.e., the stuff of science. Unlike MD training which includes little or no statistics, I, like any one else can read medical studies. I can also review the methodology.”

    Yeah, Mr. Jones…everyone who takes a statistics course in a “political science” program,
    thinks that *qualifies* them as a medical epidemiologist….

    http://www.openepi.com/OE2.3/Menu/OpenEpiMenu.htm

    You’ve shown that you cannot even read a vaccine product insert…no less begin to understand medical epidemiology.

  18. Anna November 17, 2012 at 23:58 #

    I’m autistic and I don’t believe the vaccine thing. It’s just another fringe theory. There is no autism “epedemic” and it is not a “public health crisis.” God made autistic people in His own image we should not eliminate God’s people.

  19. Science Mom November 18, 2012 at 00:20 #

    This is the type of complaint I get – over and over. And as a result, I have not been renewed at a number of positions – in Iowa, Louisiana, and now Texas. Apparently it matters not whether I teach at public or private institutions – the student complaints are the same. And their levels of comprehension and capacity to evaluate my course material, much less the political realities around them, are poor.

    I don’t suppose the thought ever occurred to you that you are a lousy instructor with a highly-inflated opinion of your own intellect. If that many institutions eighty-six you, the problem is probably not your students…it’s you.

    • Mir January 16, 2013 at 05:03 #

      Oh snap Science mama. You people called it so right…it’s like you know him too! (And yes he burned his bridges and taught in Bosnia…that ended too – draw your own conclusions:)

      • John Calvin Jones January 22, 2014 at 18:27 #

        Why would say that I “burned my bridges in Bosnia”? The school could not guarantee payroll for the staff in the spring of 2010. In the fall of 2010, faculty were not paid for two months. I left the university in seek of economic security. But if you want to criticize my teaching techniques, please provide some details that I might improve my pedagogy.

  20. ciaparker January 16, 2013 at 17:25 #

    Paul Offit lost a libel suit brought by autism dad J.B. Handley. Offit had published inaccurate information about Handley and the court ordered that he pay damages and recall and shred the book in which the libellous claim was published. Offit has made his millions from his numerous publications and lectures defending vaccines, as well as being a large shareholder in vaccine companies. He also made a lot from developing his Rotateq vaccine. He is absolutely not an unbiased source for information about vaccines. My baby reacted to the hep-B vax at birth with screaming syndrome for four days and nights, lost her only two words after getting the DTaP booster at 18 months, and was diagnosed with autism at 20 months. I reacted to a tetanus booster with both arms being paralyzed the same day, brachial plexus neuropathy, and then went on to develop MS. Those who try to dismiss and cover up vaccine reactions should have their agendas considered very carefully.

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 16, 2013 at 23:18 #

      Paul Offit lost a libel suit brought by autism dad J.B. Handley.

      Actually they settled the suit, with all three parties (Paul Offit, J.B. Handley and the publisher) paying $10,000 each to an autism focused charity. Dr. Offit did not “lose” the suit as it was settled. Mr. Handley paid the same amount–begs the question of why. Why pay money to settle the suit he himself brought forth. This is in addition to the many thousands of dollars Mr. Handley must have paid his attorney. Instead of supporting some research project that might have helped you, he three his money away. Oh, he got a blog post out of it and the ability for people to use it to attack Dr. Offit. From where I sit it’s all a colloidal waste. And that’s before taking into account that publishers take out libel insurance so the cost of litigation almost certainly didn’t even come out of Dr. Offit’s pocket. So, Handley shot himself in the foot financially. And for what? A book passage which was pointing out that he is litigious. Ironic, no? He proved the point, and paid a great deal to do so. And the corrected version is even less complimentary to Mr. Handley. And Mr. Handley didn’t even stop Dr. Offit from publishing more books.

      If that counts as a “win” to you, enjoy your victory.

      Offit has made his millions from his numerous publications and lectures defending vaccines, as well as being a large shareholder in vaccine companies.

      Dr. Offit is chief of infectious diseases at an academic hospital. He also co-invented a vaccine which is saving lives. He has also donate considerable money to autism research. You do know that people are not paid for scientific publications, don’t you?

      Do you have a link (to a credible source) that he his a large shareholder in vaccine companies? I somehow doubt it

      He also made a lot from developing his Rotateq vaccine.

      Yes he did. And he no longer makes money from that. And he hasn’t changed his message since.

      He’s on of the world experts on vaccines. A man who could make a lot more money by jumping to the vaccine industry. And yet he stays where he is and keeps doing the same thing. Plus funding autism research.

      Can you point me to where JB Handley apologized for his b.s. about how autism is just a misdiagnosis for mercury poisoning? That would take guts.

      • lilady January 16, 2013 at 23:57 #

        Your baby was diagnosed with “Screaming Syndrome” CIA Parker?

        I never heard of that particular syndrome…could you elaborate or link to a website about “Screaming Syndrome”?

      • Lara Lohne January 17, 2013 at 00:36 #

        ciapartker, you know, as well as many other commenters here, that your daughter has not ever been diagnosed with anything. You have such a distrust of the medical community that you refuse to take your daughter to a doctor and/or specialists to have her evaluated, and the only reason you say she has autism is because you are saying she has autism. Just because she is special needs and has an IEP does not mean she has autism. There are any number of intellectual disabilities that would make a child special needs and require an IEP, many of them even have some autistic characteristics that go along with it. Until you actually have her evaluated by experts, I can’t acknowledge your claim that your daughter has autism. Just as I cannot acknowledge your claim that your daughter had a reaction to the hep b vaccine at birth that isn’t even a reaction that vaccine can cause. You are grasping at straws, every time you tell your tale, there are subtle changes to it, perhaps you are hoping to make it more plausible then it was previously, yet most of these blogs, are frequented by the same people and we all know that your story is bogus and your daughter’s diagnoses are made up.

      • ciaparker January 17, 2013 at 15:34 #

        Yeah, like I or anyone who knows you is going to believe anything the woman says who lied and said her autistic son had never had any vaccinations before he was diagnosed with autism? Only the normal ones at 2, 4, and 6 months, only those which have devastated and caused autism and many other condtions in those who have gotten them. But it was important to you to act as though vaccines never caused autism, so you denied your son had even gotten them, until you were outed by your own words posted elsewhere.

      • Lara Lohne January 17, 2013 at 21:00 #

        Twisting my words to suit your needs does not make me a liar. I never claimed my son didn’t have any vaccines before he was diagnosed. I said he was showing signs of autism from birth, before he received any vaccines. I didn’t know his challenging behavior was autism until after his diagnosis, but the characteristics were still there and prior to him receiving any vaccinations.

        I am not the liar cia, you are. You have admitted it by claiming your daughter has been diagnosed with encephalitis from the hep b vaccine given at birth, when encephalopathy isn’t even a potential reaction to that vaccine. Your only evidence as to her encephalitis was four days of screaming, she was never seen by any medical professional at the time, so her encephalitis is imaginary. You also said she was diagnosed with autism when she has never even been evaluated by professionals who could give her a diagnosis. You liked the idea of having a vaccine damaged child, so you formed your story about her disabilities to match those of others who claim vaccine injury, and just like them have no ability to distinguish between coincidence and causation. You see things that just aren’t there. Maybe you like the attention, that seems to be it to me. You want to be a victim so badly you tell stories about her, but upon further information being given it all turns out to be made up or imagined by you. Wishful thinking is not evidence.

      • Chris January 17, 2013 at 02:45 #

        “And the corrected version is even less complimentary to Mr. Handley.”

        I had quite a laugh when I read the “correction” because it made Handley look even worse.

        We should note that Barbara Loe Fisher’s lawsuit against Offit failed.

      • Lawrence January 17, 2013 at 10:57 #

        @cia – what research is AW funding, btw? And besides crying for donations for that stupid home-school study, what research is AoA funding, cia?

        You’re story got old a long time ago & repeating the same lies over and over again won’t ever make them true.

      • ciaparker January 17, 2013 at 14:19 #

        Autism has usually been the result of mercury poisoning. My daughter, poisoned at the hospital by the hep-B vaccine, apart from her screaming inconsolably for four days and nights, had a sweaty forehead no matter what the ambient temperature, drooled excessively for nearly ten years, was extremely delayed in developing speech, and has never developed normal speech, has always had problems with social interactions and eye contact, used to flap her hands, and has had severe permanent constipation for many years. All of these are symptoms of mercury poisoning. I had both arms paralyzed for several days starting the day of a tetanus booster when I was nineteen (after having had eight others as a child), brachial plexus neuropathy, and then went on to develop MS. The symptoms of my MS, dizziness, numbness, unsteady gait, occasional paralysis, and extreme fatigue, are all symptoms of mercury poisoning. My father thirteen years ago became paralyzed a short time after getting a mercury-containing flu vax, and also lost his voice for a month. Doctors were stumped on both counts as to the cause. Both symptoms are symptoms of mercury poisoning. My mother has had Alzheimer’s for nearly fifteen years, and I believe that is a symptom of mercury poisoning, again, from all the flu shots she and my father used to go to the mall to get every fall. I’m sure you realize that there’s no way you’re going to put this genie back in the bag.

        Did Dr. Offit not have to recall the book with the libel in it and shred it? Apart from that, I have no interest in him. I notice they’re no longer having him on every program in which they mention vaccines, nor do they have him comment in Time when there’s an article on vaccines. I have a feeling they know his credibility is down around zero.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 17, 2013 at 14:55 #

        “Autism has usually been the result of mercury poisoning.”

        This is false. Clearly false.

      • ciaparker January 17, 2013 at 15:06 #

        True. Clearly true. It was never more than “presumed” that the ethlmercury used in thimerosal was quickly excreted from the body, and the facts on the ground have shown that it was not and is not.

      • futuredave5 January 17, 2013 at 15:34 #

        As long as I have known it, this website has had a good reputation for letting other people air their views. One of the unfortunate consequences is that people use the comments to blow off steam, and the discussions tend to get a long way off the original topic.

        Part of the vaccine debate is a misdirection: Clearly the vaccines do not cause autism. But that misdirects people from the question of whether vaccines are good for autistics.

        I fall into the same trap that a lot of other parents fall into. Each time after getting a vaccine, my son had a terrible reaction. Like many parents, I assumed that the correlation was so obvious that the vaccine had to be the cause.

        Correlation does not imply causation, but it does imply something. The smoke did not cause the fire, but it is a pretty good hint that there is a fire somewhere.

        When I tried to research this, though, I run into a series of obstacles that are way over my head.

        When I reported the reaction to my doctor, for example, he assumed that I was going to try to sue him, so he stopped communicating with me. Imagine how helpful this is to a new parent struggling with both autism and adverse vaccine reactions.

        When I look for books on the subject, the literature seems to be 50% anti-vax quacks, and 50% strident condemnation of me as an anti-vax quack.

        Neither set of books suits me very well. I do not believe the vaccines caused my son’s autism, but I do believe they caused some kind of severe reaction.

        But any time I mention this around doctors, they automatically assume I am lying.

        As a result, I have been driven to find doctors who will listen to my story without condemning me. Trying to find a doctor like that, who is also not a quack, is pretty hard.

        In my perfect world, this website would behave just like my ideal doctor. The people would listen to my rants (and the rants of others like me), and would then try to comment on the grains of truth, rather than the misdirection of the vaccine debate.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 17, 2013 at 18:33 #

        People still read AoA? Much more, believe it? It’s like the weekly world news of autism.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 17, 2013 at 16:13 #

        “Did Dr. Offit not have to recall the book with the libel in it and shred it? ”

        Did you misunderstand the discussion above? There is no libel in the book. By continuing to make that assertion, it is you who is performing libel.

        There was an inaccurate statement. It has been corrected. The solution, agreed to by Mr. Handley, was that the three parties make a donation to a given autism charity (UCLA, as I recall). Mr. Handley was left with large legal bills, as (I assume) was the insurance company for the publisher.

        The book was not recalled. The second edition has the correction, which puts Mr. Handley in an even worse light. Dr. Offit’s next book was even more critical of Mr. Handley. Pretty much a textbook example of how a frivolous lawsuit can backfire.

      • ciaparker January 19, 2013 at 18:44 #

        Lil,
        Is this the comment you’ve been referring to? I posted a long comment this morning answering your question, but it’s in moderation now. I think it conclusively establishes the evidence that supports my assertion that the hep-B vax caused encephalitis which caused by daughter’s autism.

      • ciaparker January 19, 2013 at 19:00 #

        Lara,
        You know it’s easy for me to cut and paste your comment where you said your son had received no vaccines until you got Medicaid for him when he entered preschool (having lost it after the six-month vaccines). And then you started saying that you think he had autism from before he was two months old and got his first shots (but have no official diagnosis, indeed, they can’t diagnose infants that young with autism). Do you want me to do it? I don’t have time right now, but I”ve done it before, and can easily do it again.

      • Lara Lohne January 19, 2013 at 20:54 #

        That would be a nice trick since I didn’t ever actually say my son had not been vaccinated prior to getting back on medicaid when he was two and a half. I said his vaccinations needed to be caught up before he could enter spec ed pre school as part of the Early Intervention program, but I haven’t ever said he was not vaccinated until after his diagnosis. I’ve said all along he was showing signs of autism prior to receiving any vaccines, which is true since he showed signs from birth, even though I didn’t know what it was at the time. All I knew is that none of my previous five children had been anywhere near as challenging as he was. Stop trying to say I said something that I didn’t. Your claims are outright lies and you are choosing to personally attack me with libel because you don’t like me pointing out that science disagrees with what you are claiming is ‘known fact’. Stop being so ridiculous.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 19, 2013 at 21:45 #

        If it were easy, you would have done it.

  21. Science Mom January 17, 2013 at 15:31 #

    I reacted to a tetanus booster with both arms being paralyzed the same day, brachial plexus neuropathy, and then went on to develop MS. Those who try to dismiss and cover up vaccine reactions should have their agendas considered very carefully.

    Funny how this story morphs, much like any other anti-vaxxer story blaming the vaccine bogeyman. You have claimed it was from a DTP booster. Also funny how children with autism do not have an increased body burden of ethylmercury than neurotypical children. But why let facts get in the way of your screeds.

    • ciaparker January 17, 2013 at 15:48 #

      It is hard to test for mercury, as a couple of weeks after exposure it’s no longer in the blood or urine, having been stored in the brain or other body tissues. Most autistic people have never been tested for their mercury levels, as none of you people wants to know if they’re high in mercury or not. Of those who are successfully tested, many are skyhigh in mercury. Gay Tate, in her article in Vaccine Epidemic, says, pp. 102-3:”I can still remember staring, through angry tears, at the results of my three children’s porphyrin profile tests. Kenny, cognitively and physically the most affected child, showed the highest level of mercury toxicity. Olivia, less affected, showed clear but less toxicity, and Allen’s results showed no evidence of mercury toxicity at all. All three children shared the same parents, food, water, air, time spent nursing, and even the time of year they were born. The biggest diffence in environmental exposure that happened during those three short years was the increase in their vaccines. There it was, clear data from my own family and a microcosm of what had happened to so many children. A sudden increase in autism, beginning in the 19902, that coincided with a change in a single set of exposures-vaccines, received by all children in our country without regard to genetics, diet, socioeconomic status, geography, or quality of medical care…The difference in the vaccination scedule in the three years between Allen and Kenny was dramatic. Our government had more than odubled the number of shots in the first six months, and they were also given earlier, beginning on the day of birth. However, I believe the most damaging aspect of the change was the sharp increase in the amount of mercury that Kenny, and later Olivia, received. Their pediatiricans gave Kenny and Olivia the additional hep B and Hib vaccines, both containing the preservative thimerosal, which is 50% ethylmercury by weight. ..Kenny and Olivia each received three times the amount of mercury, beginning just days after birth, as allen. Those in charge of the vaccination schedule apparently forgot to add up the amount of mercury that American children would receive because of the added shots. How careless! Even worse, how reprehensible to continue, to this day, to publicly deny the damage that was done.”

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 17, 2013 at 15:55 #

        People can go to a medical toxicologist for diagnosis and treatment. They are trained in this specialty and work daily in it.

        The alt-med community rarely refers people they suspect of mercury poisoning to these specialists. Tells me a lot. And it isn’t good.

        The idea that “I know it’s mercery poisoning but the tests don’t show it” doesn’t meet the standards I have for diagnosis and treatment of my family. I want my family to get the best. People who attend a one-day seminar at a DAN conference and then give out diagnoses which won’t hold up to scrutiny by specialists is not good enough for me.

      • Science Mom January 17, 2013 at 19:15 #

        It is hard to test for mercury, as a couple of weeks after exposure it’s no longer in the blood or urine, having been stored in the brain or other body tissues. Most autistic people have never been tested for their mercury levels, as none of you people wants to know if they’re high in mercury or not.

        Ah no, it isn’t hard to test for mercury burden. Your second claim is equally fallacious as many autistic children have been tested and compared to controls. You have to be kidding me if you haven’t bothered to read any studies of this but then again, avoiding them would make it easier to remain detached from reality.

        Of those who are successfully tested, many are skyhigh in mercury. Gay Tate, in her article in Vaccine Epidemic, says, pp. 102-3:”I can still remember staring, through angry tears, at the results of my three children’s porphyrin profile tests. Kenny, cognitively and physically the most affected child, showed the highest level of mercury toxicity.

        Wow, that’s daft. You don’t seem to even care that those tests are completely bogus. What do you think when you give someone a chelator and test them? That isn’t an acceptable test at all and to think that you freaks do that to your children as well as what comes next is repugnant.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 17, 2013 at 19:31 #

        The way the porphyrin test has been misrepresented is horrible. The current research shows that kids have a different profile than adults, autistic kids have different profiles than other kids, but these profiles are different from those of adults exposed to mercury. The porphyrin profiles in autistic kids are not dependent on mercury exposure.

        Anyone using or promoting porphyrin profiles as a marker of mercury intoxication in autistic kids is either misinformed or worse.

    • ciaparker January 17, 2013 at 15:52 #

      I said I wanted a tetanus shot at the Student Health Clinic, just as I said years later that I wanted a rubella shot to protect future babies. I think it is very likely that they gave me a DPT in the first case and an MMR in the second case, as no one thought any of them were harmful, and it was more common to give the combination vaccines. I don’t know for sure what they gave me, but I’ve read that brachial plexus neuropathy is a recognized side effect of the tetanus vaccine, whether given singly or in a combination vaccine. I also got the first of two typhoid shots, but apparently that’s not associated with brachial plexus neuropathy. Now it seems ludicrous to me that I thought I needed them to go to Mexico for the first time.

      • Science Mom January 17, 2013 at 20:53 #

        So you now don’t even know what vaccines you received but just know that they caused…something. Parker you are a caricature of an anti-vaxxer.

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 17, 2013 at 16:03 #

      The mercury hypothesis was based on to pillars. Neither was accurate.

      the first pillar was that the autism rates increased as thimerosal exposure from vaccines increased in the US. Multiple studies have shown no increased risk with thimerosal exposure from vaccines. Autism rates are not dropping even though exposures are down.

      The second pillar was an assertion that autism presents like mercury poisoning. This assertion was made by people who had no expertise and who misinterpreted the presentation of mercury intoxication. It was basically nonsense.

      The mercury hypothesis is a sad story in the history of autism. A lot of people were treated for faux mercury poisoning. Many families felt guilt over something which was a false assertion. It’s well past time to move on. Most of the autism community has. Less than 1% of families report using chelation as a therapy now.

      • ciaparker January 17, 2013 at 16:16 #

        You would have to read the book The Age of Autism before saying anything about this issue. I cannot sum up its 400 pages of fully-documented indictment of mercury in medications and vaccines as a factoid. Mercury is still in most flu vaccines in full force, and the sheepies get it every year. (I love Th1Th2.) Even one flu shot could cause autism. And the aluminum in nearly all shots at many times the presumed “safe” level could be taking up all the slack left by the removal of most of the mercury from most vaccines.

        Not time to move on. You should look at regardingcaroline.com and recoveringnicholas.com and their associated forums on the Andy Cutler protocol. Thousands of parents are doing it, and a woman on AoA told me they had thankfully fully recovered their son from autism by its use.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 17, 2013 at 18:34 #

        I did read the book Age of Autism. It’s painfully bad writing, for one thing. It is a great example of denialism in action. Seriously, it is sad that people spent so much time writing such nonsense.

      • futuredave5 January 17, 2013 at 16:21 #

        Putting aside the discussion of vaccines, I would still like to see some more discussion of heavy metals.

        We have some friends who recently decided to test for heavy metals, because nothing else was working. After identifying very high levels of a certain toxin (not mercury), they started on a conservative chelation program.

        Two weeks later, their son said “Hi Mommy”.

        This is not scientific, of course, but this was his first word on any kind in about six years.

        So what changed? Was it the vitamins given in advance of chelation? Was it the chelation? Was it a pure coincidence?

      • Chris January 22, 2013 at 01:48 #

        Hello, Cia. Back to using more sock puppets?

  22. ciaparker January 17, 2013 at 15:35 #

    @ Lara Lohne

    You think your son is only “delayed” and is going to eventually become normal enough to be independent. I guess you’ll have to wait and see on that one. I talked to my uncle yesterday, who has twin granddaughters, one with autism. One is a freshman at U.T. in Austin this year, and is doing great. The autistic twin sister lives at an autism institution where she is doing passably well working at cleaning detail. Both 18 years old. At 22 years old, she’ll have to transition to another facility. No one thinks she’ll ever live independently. The county case services manager for my daughter came last week, to talk about her transitioning next year to the self-contained autism classroom at the middle school level. He wrote down all the supplements I give her, to be able to refer back to his notes when it is seen whether they help her or not. He talked about the supervised living facilities they have for autistic young people, because it looks as though that’s where she’s headed. I asked if his case load of autistic children had gone up in recent years, and he said yes, there’s been a tremendous increase at his office in the last few years.

    • Lara Lohne January 17, 2013 at 21:25 #

      Of course my son is delayed, because he has autism, which is developmental delay. You don’t know him, and from what I’ve seen of your posts over the years, you don’t really know that much about autism either, or how each individual is affected differently by it. My son may become independent, he may not. Either way, as long as he grows up happy and knowing he is loved, that is the only thing that matters.

      • lilady January 22, 2013 at 03:42 #

        Hello Ellie/CIA Parker…still ranting on about vaccines? You are being moderated for your thread-derailing tactics, for comment spamming and for your use of Sockies. Just go away now.

  23. ciaparker January 17, 2013 at 16:10 #

    @FutureDave 5,

    I’ve had similarly frustrating experiences with doctors. When my mother told the pedi about my daughter’s endless, inconsolable screaming, he asked if it were for over three hours. She said it was far, far more than that, and he said one of his two daughters had had colic, which wasn’t a physical condition at all (!) Nothing more than that. I’ve wondered if the idea of vaccine reaction even went through his head. He would certainly have realized he would be sued if it were, since I had gone to him a month before my baby was born to tell him I did not want my baby to get the hep-B vax when she was born. He agreed, but as he told me the day after she was born, after the nurse told him I was upset when they told me they had given her the shot at ten till midnight without asking permission, and I had exclaimed that I had told the doctor I didn’t want her to get it, he had forgotten to tell the staff of my wishes. And had neglected to tell me that I needed to tell them as soon as I arrived at the hospital, and many times after that. I had mistakenly thought he would be in charge of directing administration of the vaccine. And they didn’t give me the sheet with the list of symtpoms of vaccine reaction. As I sat rocking her all night as she screamed, I thought about whether it was colic. I knew that colic only started at the earliest in the third week, following a rule of threes, starting at three weeks, lasting tops three months, lasting at least three hours a day. I wondered if maybe she was really overdue when she was born, and was developmentally three weeks old when the screaming started. Colic doesn’t interfere with feeding, but she stopped eating during those four days and nights of screaming, and lost one pound two ounces the first two days of it. The doctor screwed up on many counts. And no one asked me about preexisting conditions in my husband and I: I had MS, had reacted as an infant to the DPT vaccine, and my husband had ulcerative colitis. My baby was at increased risk from the beginning for a reaction, but no one even asked.

    She had laboriously acquired two words by 18 months, uh for up at the playground and uff for dog. Both words disappeared when she got the DTaP booster at 18 months. Sonja Hintz in Vaccine Epidemic wrote that her son Alex lost his few words immediately after a round of shots at 25 months (p. 117). My daughter didn’t say another word until 34 months old, having been diagnosed with autism at 20 months by therapists at the Rusk Rehabilitation Center. I was in denial for a long time, sure I could recover her with lots of attention, activities, reading, singing, etc. Her pedi had thought she was only “delayed,” and I clung to that. Obviously, in hindsight I wish I had gone ballistic the first night of the screaming, and gotten it all documented, brought suit in Vaccine Court before the three year statute of limitations was up. But I have all her baby teeth, which I”m sure have lots of mercury in them, and I’m sure our day in court will come once all this travesty is publicly recognized.

    You are mistaken in saying that vaccines do not cause autism, but I don’t have time to get into it now, and I know that it’s such an article of faith at this site that they don’t, it probably wouldn’t be a good use of my time in any case. But I agree with you about the doctors.

    • futuredave5 January 17, 2013 at 17:38 #

      Yeah, we were pretty upset about the Hep B vaccine too. They did ask my wife, but they presented it as something that was necessary to do right then.

      If they had told us it was for a sexually transmitted disease, we would have waited a few years. Neither of us are infected, and we weren’t planning for him to be exposed to anyone else’s body fluids for many years.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 17, 2013 at 18:32 #

        Hepatitis B is transmitted sexually in many cases–but it is not sexually transmitted in all cases. Children do contract it. The younger the child, the worse the outcome, on average. The younger a child is who contracts HepB the higher the probability that the disease will be chronic and lead to serious harm later in life.

      • futuredave5 January 17, 2013 at 19:57 #

        Oh I am sure Hep B is bad, or they wouldn’t be giving vaccines to infants in the first place. But what exactly is the risk factor? Some other kid will bite him and give him Hep B?

        I guess it is a good thing that all the day care centers we checked into require vaccines, or we might have outbreaks here like they have in Africa.

        But my question was: Why not give us a little more information and let us decide? We had no plans to put him in day care for 12 months, and so the vaccine could have waited for a while. Three hours old seems a little young to be worried about Hep B, AIDS, or chronic fatigue.

        If they are worried that I am going to get into a car accident with a drug addict on the way home from the hospital, and the addict’s blood will get all over my son, then that seems like a pretty remote chance.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 17, 2013 at 21:19 #

        Given the number of adults with chronic HepB infections contracted in childhood, there are obviously many more pathways than “child was in a car accident and exposed to blood from a carrier”

        If everyone your child might contact in the first year was tested and negative for HepB, you have a very different community than I.

        I am fine with more information being made available to parents. I haven’t seen anything that would change my decisions on vaccinations for my family. that’s not entirely true. I would have made more sure people in my circle were as up to date as possible. Whooping cough comes to mind primarily.

      • Low Budget Dave January 17, 2013 at 23:51 #

        According to what I read, Hep b transmission can occur through unprotected sex, intravenous drug use, unintended needle sticks, exposure to contaminated blood in healthcare or correctional settings or during accidents and disasters, or through tattooing and piercing.

        According to the literature, the reason vaccines are given at birth is that infected women also pass the virus to their newborns during childbirth. so they are giving my child a vaccine based on the assumption that my wife is lying about her Hep B status.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 18, 2013 at 03:42 #

        Hepatitis B virus is transmitted between people by direct blood-to-blood contact or semen and vaginal fluid of an infected person. Modes of transmission are the same as those for the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), but the hepatitis B virus is 50 to 100 times more infectious. Unlike HIV, the hepatitis B virus can survive outside the body for at least seven days. During this time, the virus can still cause infection if it enters the body of a person who is not protected by the vaccine.

        From http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs204/en/

        The last few lines are very relevant to this discussion.

        Media centre
        News
        Events
        Fact sheets
        Multimedia
        Contacts
        Hepatitis B

        Fact sheet N°204
        July 2012

        Key facts

        Hepatitis B is a viral infection that attacks the liver and can cause both acute and chronic disease.
        The virus is transmitted through contact with the blood or other body fluids of an infected person.
        Two billion people worldwide have been infected with the virus and about 600 000 people die every year due to the consequences of hepatitis B.
        The hepatitis B virus is 50 to 100 times more infectious than HIV.
        Hepatitis B is an important occupational hazard for health workers.
        Hepatitis B is preventable with the currently available safe and effective vaccine.
        Hepatitis B is a potentially life-threatening liver infection caused by the hepatitis B virus. It is a major global health problem and the most serious type of viral hepatitis. It can cause chronic liver disease and puts people at high risk of death from cirrhosis of the liver and liver cancer.

        Worldwide, an estimated two billion people have been infected with the hepatitis B virus and more than 240 million have chronic (long-term) liver infections. About 600 000 people die every year due to the acute or chronic consequences of hepatitis B.

        A vaccine against hepatitis B has been available since 1982. Hepatitis B vaccine is 95% effective in preventing infection and its chronic consequences, and is the first vaccine against a major human cancer.

        Geographical distribution
        Hepatitis B virus can cause an acute illness with symptoms that last several weeks, including yellowing of the skin and eyes (jaundice), dark urine, extreme fatigue, nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain. Hepatitis B is endemic in China and other parts of Asia. Most people in this region become infected with the hepatitis B virus during childhood and 8–10% of the adult population is chronically infected. Liver cancer caused by hepatitis B is among the first three causes of death from cancer in men, and a major cause of cancer in women in this region.

        High rates of chronic infections are also found in the Amazon and the southern parts of eastern and central Europe. In the Middle East and Indian subcontinent, an estimated 2–5% of the general population is chronically infected. Less than 1% of the population in western Europe and North America is chronically infected.

        Transmission
        Hepatitis B virus is transmitted between people by direct blood-to-blood contact or semen and vaginal fluid of an infected person. Modes of transmission are the same as those for the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), but the hepatitis B virus is 50 to 100 times more infectious. Unlike HIV, the hepatitis B virus can survive outside the body for at least seven days. During this time, the virus can still cause infection if it enters the body of a person who is not protected by the vaccine.

        In developing countries, common modes of transmission are:

        perinatal (from mother to baby at birth)
        early childhood infections (inapparent infection through close interpersonal contact with infected household contacts)
        unsafe injection practices
        unsafe blood transfusions
        unprotected sexual contact.
        In many developed countries (e.g. those in western Europe and North America), patterns of transmission are different from those in developing countries. The majority of infections in developed countries are transmitted during young adulthood by sexual activity and injecting drug use. Hepatitis B is a major infectious occupational hazard of health workers.

        The hepatitis B virus is not spread by contaminated food or water, and cannot be spread casually in the workplace.

        The incubation period of the hepatitis B virus is 90 days on average, but can vary from 30 to 180 days. The virus may be detected 30 to 60 days after infection and persists for variable periods of time.

        Symptoms
        Most people do not experience any symptoms during the acute infection phase. However, some people have acute illness with symptoms that last several weeks, including yellowing of the skin and eyes (jaundice), dark urine, extreme fatigue, nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain.

        In some people, the hepatitis B virus can also cause a chronic liver infection that can later develop into cirrhosis of the liver or liver cancer.

        Who is at risk for chronic disease?
        The likelihood that infection with the hepatitis B virus becomes chronic depends upon the age at which a person becomes infected. Young children who become infected with the hepatitis B virus are the most likely to develop chronic infections:

        90% of infants infected during the first year of life develop chronic infections;
        30–50% of children infected between one to four years of age develop chronic infections.
        In adults:

        25% of adults who become chronically infected during childhood die from hepatitis B-related liver cancer or cirrhosis;
        90% of healthy adults who are infected with the hepatitis B virus will recover and be completely rid of the virus within six months.

        90% of those infected in the first year of life develop chronic infections.

        If you want to say it’s relatively low risk that your child would be infected with hepB in the first year given your negative status. Sure. Pretty big downside, though.

        With all due respect, you still don’t have the full facts. Makes it hard to feel that your complaint that you should have been given more data before vaccinating is an argument with great merit.

      • futuredave5 January 18, 2013 at 11:09 #

        Matt, The Hep B Vaccine is statistically associated with increased risk of autism. If they had given me the information about liver failure, and the information about autism, I would have chosen to vaccinate at 6 months rather than at birth.

        More to the point, much has been made on this website about how the MMR vaccine does not contain mercury. Can you say the same for the Hep B vaccine (hint: you can’t.)

        All during my wife’s pregnancy, she was told not to eat fish, because it contains mercury. Yet our son was given a direct injection of mercury into his bloodstream when he was only a few hours old. How is this logical, especially considering that Hep B vaccines are available that do not contain mercury.

        For the first few days of his life, he cried himself to sleep every day. It was terrible to watch. The nurses in the hospital actually returned him to our room several times because his hysterical crying made them frightened for his life.

        Was this related to the Hep B vaccine? How would I know?

        And where would I have gotten the information to make an informed decision? From the doctor? From the hospital? The silence from them was deafening.

      • Lara Lohne January 18, 2013 at 11:41 #

        I think futuredave5 is being played by two different people. This quote from this exact same post, just in the past couple of days,

        “Part of the vaccine debate is a misdirection: Clearly the vaccines do not cause autism.”

        But now he is saying that he believes vaccines do cause autism? Which is it, because you can’t have it both ways.

      • futuredave5 January 18, 2013 at 12:05 #

        Lara: Here is the question I have: Why is it that you have unquestioning acceptance of every study that says vaccines are safe?

        And why is it that you have unquestioned rejection for every study that suggests otherwise? (And why is doubt and scorn even a valid argument? Why do I have to decide if mercury-in-infants is safe? Isn’t that what doctors are for?)

        Isn’t it even possible that the human immune system is slightly more complex than people assume? Isn’t it possible that the mercury-in-Hep-B study raised some valid questions? If you are saying that this is not even a valid question, then I think it suggests a closed mind that is not necessarily an asset.

        No, I don’t think that the Hep B vaccine caused my son’s autism. If it were simple cause-and-effect, then the statistical link would be a lot more than three times higher. All I am saying is that I wish I had known about the controversy before the vaccine, rather than after. It would have influenced my behavior.

        Are you saying it would not have influenced your behavior at all? (I don’t believe you.) Are you saying we should throw out all research on Hep B, and just assume that it is safe? Really? Is that your suggested approach?

        Because if so, that sounds like the same approach we used toward thalidomide.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 18, 2013 at 15:53 #

        ” Are you saying we should throw out all research on Hep B, and just assume that it is safe? ”

        Are you aware of the bias you are showing? “Throw away the research and assume it is safe?”?!?

        How about read the research and determine that it is safe? I’ve even read the papers attacking the HepB vaccine. If I had the time I’d do some counter papers. They are really poor quality and highly biased.

      • futuredave5 January 18, 2013 at 20:55 #

        Matt: I am not the one who started this line of logic. Lara said that I could not have it both ways, and that I needed to decide right now whether vaccines cause autism or not.

        This is not a fair argument, because it suggests that there are only two choices.

        In the real world, there are thousands of choices. Hep B vaccine might turn out to “contribute” to autism. It might turn out to make certain symptoms worse. It might turn out that it is bad for two-day-olds, but fine for three-day-olds. It might turn out to be harmful when used with preservative, but fine without. It might turn out to be fine for kids without colic, but harmful to kids with colic. There are a whole range of symptoms that might be unrelated to autism, but make it easier for autism to be diagnosed.

        The list goes on and on, and the research hardly covers 1% of it.

        So for someone to say that I am trying to have it both ways is to imply that unless a vaccine causes autism, then it must be safe. I disagree.

        If there is any research that indicates any problem with a vaccine, whether the problem is autism, or MS, or weight loss, or anything, then it needs to be researched further, and disclosed to parents.

        Anyone who says that I need to “choose” is implying that I need to either believe the research, or reject it. And that is a false argument. I can simply insist on more research.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 18, 2013 at 21:06 #

        “Matt: I am not the one who started this line of logic. Lara said that I could not have it both ways, and that I needed to decide right now whether vaccines cause autism or not.”

        That’s a different line of logic than I was referring to. “I am open minded, are you” is what I was discussing. Go ahead and do it. Just be aware that it doesn’t read well to those who have been doing online discussions for a long time.

        In the real world, there are thousands of choices. Hep B vaccine might turn out to “contribute” to autism. It might turn out to make certain symptoms worse. It might turn out that it is bad for two-day-olds, but fine for three-day-olds. It might turn out to be harmful when used with preservative, but fine without. It might turn out to be fine for kids without colic, but harmful to kids with colic. There are a whole range of symptoms that might be unrelated to autism, but make it easier for autism to be diagnosed.

        The list goes on and on, and the research hardly covers 1% of it.

        Where “it” is speculations not based on any evidence or data, sure. We can add, “Does the Hepatitis B vaccine turn people into the incredible hulk” to take an extreme example. It might turn out that administering the Hepatitis B vaccine on the same day as starting a GFCF diet and pulling an all-nighter might make a person into an incredible athlete. I don’t think so.

        “If there is any research that indicates any problem with a vaccine, whether the problem is autism, or MS, or weight loss, or anything, then it needs to be researched further, and disclosed to parents.”

        And CIA Parker is a good example of a parent who has ignored such evidence and cherry picked the older studies which could not be replicated. Which is another way of saying, when there is indication that there is a problem with a vaccine, it is researched. And disclosed. One can lead the horse to water…

      • futuredave5 January 19, 2013 at 01:33 #

        I have the feeling we have been down this road before. In my opinion, vaccines are a calculated risk. If there is a vaccine that reduces people chances of getting the flu by 60%, but does permanent damage to one out of a million people, then most people would get the vaccine. The flu can be deadly, and in a lot greater numbers than .000001.

        But what if the number is one out of ten thousand, or even one out of every thousand?

        Most research studies are so small that one out of a thousand would not show up in the statistics. But if you went to the average parent, and told them that it was a calculated risk, they might make different decisions.

        I am not in a position to judge Cia Parker: I was there once. Each time my son got a vaccination, he had terrible, heartbreaking reactions. A few months later, he was diagnosed with autism. It is a pretty natural thing for a parent to assume that the painful reactions were related to the autism.

        In the first few months after the diagnosis, I read everything I could find, and there is a lot more crazy stuff out there than anyone might imagine.

        Vaccine causation theory plays into our fears, by offering simple answers to complex questions. It also plays into our hopes: Everyone wants to believe that the whole thing could be solved just by identifying the bad guys and punishing them.

        It is the same reason I keep hoping we will send a few bankers to jail.

        Anyway, there is plenty of stuff that I don’t know. I suspect that a lot more will be known about autism in just the next few years. It would not surprise me if some of the things I believe pretty strongly turn out to be completely wrong.

      • Lara Lohne January 18, 2013 at 23:17 #

        Which part of my statements says you had to decide right now what you believe? I was simply trying to ascertain why you make statements that you believe both, when clearly believing both is contradictory. The awesomest part of all this, we don’t have to decide, we just need to read the data available, use some critical thinking and logic and we can determine the issue has already been decided by scientists. Of course everyone is free to believe other then what the facts tell us, a person really can’t believe both though, because they are utterly at odds with each other.

      • futuredave5 January 19, 2013 at 02:12 #

        Lara,

        The point I was making is that the issue has not already been decided by scientists. In the most recent study of the Dynavax, for example, all 13 of the panel members agreed that dynavax worked, but eight of the panel members expressed doubt about the safety of the vaccine. And this is in an adult population.

        Considering the millions of kids who have gotten the Hep B vaccine, I think it is safe to say that if it turned people into zombies, we would have been over-run already.

        But it still is not fair to say that we know everything about it.

      • Lara Lohne January 19, 2013 at 03:06 #

        Nope, we don’t have all the facts. We may never have all the facts, and if we never did anything until we did have all the facts, nothing would ever get done. As quoted by Dara O’Briain, “Science knows it doesn’t know everything, otherwise it’d stop. But just because science doesn’t know everything doesn’t mean you can fill in the gaps with whatever fairy tale most appeals to you.” That being the case, we need to do the best we can with what we have, and what we have says vaccinations are effective and safe for the very vast majority of individuals.

        As to the autism question, there were several very large epidemiological studies done, looking at health of individuals vaccinated and unvaccinated over the course of their lives. Not less then 1000, but hundreds of thousands or even millions included in those studies. They compared the difference of chronic disorders, allergies, asthma, etc. as well as autism, ADD and ADHD etc. There was not a statistically significant difference in the rates between the two groups. Even though there was not a statistically significant difference in the rates between, it did show the rates are higher in the unvaccinated, along with more cases of VPDs, which leads to the belief that there is a bit of a protective effect against chronic disorders, etc, from the vaccinations.

        So no, we don’t have all the facts, and I haven’t ever made any claim that we did. however, of the facts that we do have, they clearly point away from vaccines causing autism. And toward vaccines being safe and effective, much more so then the diseases they prevent and protect against. And let’s face it, if a child has a vaccine reaction, what would have happened to that child if they had contracted the disease instead?

      • Lara Lohne January 18, 2013 at 18:36 #

        futuredave5, So much that I could say, except that this blog isn’t about me. You’ve made some pretty bold statements regarding my position in support of vaccinations, especially considering you don’t know me. It almost could be construed as a personal attack, simply because I pointed out your contradictory statements, and that must have hit a nerve somewhere. Either vaccines cause autism, or they don’t, it can’t be both ways. You seem to not really have very strong beliefs either way on this topic, based on what I’ve read so far, unless you are two different people posting under the same nym. That might explain it your dichotomy. I’d appreciate it if, in the future, you refrain from making broad assumptions regarding my knowledge and character please. Thanks.

      • futuredave5 January 18, 2013 at 20:22 #

        Lara,

        Maybe I was reading too much into your statement. But to give a non-judgmental reply: It is not my responsibility to determine whether the Hep B vaccine is safe. I do not know.

        You keep saying that I have to make up my mind. I do not. I already gave permission for my son to get the vaccine. If there is damage, it is done.

        All I am saying is that there should be more research, and there should be better information available.

        I have an open mind on the subject, and I am willing to be convinced one way or the other.

        Are you?

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 18, 2013 at 20:44 #

        just for the record–I find the “I’m open minded and I don’t think you are (or I question whether you are)” a debate trick. It reads to me as a passive-aggressive attempt to impune the reasoning of the other person while complementing one’s self for being resonable.

      • futuredave5 January 19, 2013 at 00:19 #

        Matt,

        It is hard to explain my emotions very well in writing. When I ask a question, it is usually just asking a question. I have been proven wrong from time to time, and changed my mind as a result.

        I don’t think I am slapping myself on the back, I am just saying that my initial impression of Paul Offit was negative. After reading up a bit, and listening to the people on this board, I have decided that he is not a paid shill, nor a profiteer.

        Instead of saying that I have an open mind, I should have said that I stand corrected.

        On the other hand, I still think that the human immune system is vastly complex, and poorly understood in relation to autism. There are some characteristics of autism that resemble an autoimmune disorder, or even a mitochondrial disorder, depending on how you look at it.

        When I state my opinions, though, I am sometimes treated as if I am stupid. i am sometimes treated as if my questions are the sign of insufficient research. I dislike being treated that way, as you might expect.

        If someone says to me: “We have done the research, and we know for a fact that there is no merit to your argument.” … then I will disagree. We do not know what causes autism, and we do not know all the chemicals or toxins that might make it worse, nor how much worse, nor in what percentage of the population.

        So when i ask people if they have an open mind to such research, all I am doing is asking a question. I really did not mean to imply that they did not, (except for those people who started off by implying that I am stupid.)

      • cia parker January 18, 2013 at 14:46 #

        Dave and Sullivan,

        When I was preganant in 1999 and 2000, they tested me for hep-B (they didn’t tell me they were doing it, it was a routine test given to all pregnant women), and found that I was negative. But they gave the hep-b vax to my baby without even asking pemission, even though I didn’t want her to get it, and she reacted with encephalitis. They gave her the one, of course I didn’t permit the others in the series. And to this day, thirteen years later, neither she nor I has developed hep-B. And if we did, God forbid, if it miraculously became capable of airborne transmission, for example, we would eventually recover, since we have no addictions that would impair our immune systems from fighting off the virus. It was and is very rare in the U.S. for a pregnant woman to have hep-B: Dr. Sears found the figure that showed that before the universal vaccine program started, an average of 360 babies and children were being diagnosed with hep-B, usually if not always contracted during the birth process from an infected mother. That’s not very many in the big picture. Testing of pregnant women for the virus has been routine for many years. The sensible thing to do would be to not give this devastatingly dangerous vaccine to a newborn unless the mother had hep-B, in which case you’d have to read a lot to choose what you think is the lesser of two evils. Lawrence says the test is not always accurate. In that case, they should ask the woman if she wants to do the test again, and leave the decision up to the parents. Why do the test if they’re going to shoot the baby up willy nilly?

        Hepatitis B is very common in Southeast Asia among all age groups, and is common in most Third World countries. It is uncommon in First World countries like the U.S., Great Britain, and Europe. Since the vaccine is so dangerous, factors such as different rates of risk depending on location must be taken into account, as they should be when deciding on the MMR. Measles is very rarely a dangerous disease among prevously healthy, well-nourished populations in the First World, while the measles vaccine or MMR is extremely dangerous. Parents must read a lot about this issue before making up their mind on whether to get this or any other vaccine for their children.

        Lawrence, come on, you know that hep-B has not been proven in a single case to be transmitted by casual contact. Just assumed, decades later, when an adult tests positive for hep-B and they ask him how he could have gotten it. He will often say he doesn’t know, he’s not promiscuous, he’s not an alcoholic or a drug addict (even when he is), so the “experts” say, hum, he must have gotten it as a child by casual contact, there’s no other answer. Let’s make billions by making all babies get a series of dangerous shots to eliminate this possiblitly of transmission, at least for the child’s first four years (the length of time the manufacturer says immunity lasts). My brother is a dentist at a Veterans’ Hospital, and he thinks it’s an important vaccine for medical personnel, since he thinks it’s likely that an infected patient’s blood during a dental procedure come in contact with an open cut on his hand, through the latex glove, I guess, or maybe spray up into his face (yuk). His choice, obviously, though if it were I , I would refuse the vaccine even in his case, as I think this scenario is far-fetched.

        It is even further fetched to think that doctors or nurses at a hospital or clinic would somehow rub infected blood into a newborn’s open cuts or mucus membranes. I totally agree with Dave, this is a decision to be left to the parents. You guys should look at the information gathered at the congressional safety hearing on the hep-B vax in May 1999. Belkin (whose baby daughter was killed by the hep-B vax), Judy Converse, whose baby son’s experience was very similar to my baby daughter’s, school nurse Patti White, and others gave their convincing testimony on the extreme dangers of this vax (Converse wrote a great book on it), and the committee decided that it was a very dangerous vax, that absolutely shouldn’t be given with mercury. So for a few months, hospitals complied and didn’t give it with mercury, but then they thought of all that mercury-containing store of hep-B vaccine going to waste, and used it up. And so they gave it to my baby who reacted with encephalitis and mercury toxicity a year later, in May 2000.

      • lilady January 17, 2013 at 21:08 #

        There is an entire background history of recommending the hepatitis B for all children before they leave the birthing hospital. I am going to attempt to condense it for you.

        As you know, prior to the development of effective hepatitis B vaccine, pregnant women were not test for hepatitis b chronic carriage, because we could not prevent the transmission of the virus to a newborn (vertical transmission). Once there was a preventive vaccine, States passed health department regulations that stipulated the testing of all pregnant women for the presence of acute or chronic carriage of the hepatitis B virus (positive surface antigen). That testing was added to the panel of tests (TORCH) all pregnant woman undergo (Toxiplasmosis, “Other”, Rubella, Cytomegalovirus and Hepatitis B).

        Each State has a PHBPP (Perinatal Hepatitis B Prevention Program) and coordinators (case managers/nurses) who implement the program in every County.

        http://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/hepatitis/hepatitis_b/perinatal/docs/program_manual.pdf

        Only when a pregnant woman is identified as a carrier, is testing for the virus offered to her partner and other household members for their own sakes and so that a newborn is not exposed to a chronic carrier of the virus. Many partners and household members refuse to be tested, however.

        The prevalence of chronic hepatitis in the United States including all ethnic groups is ~ 2 %…it is much higher for people who live in the United States and are part of ethnic groups from all of Asia (except Japan), Middle East, East Europe, The Indian sub-continent, Africa, and all over the Caribbean and Latin American countries. So 98 % of pregnant are negative for the virus….but what about the partners and close household members, who may in fact be chronic carriers? They could put an unprotected infant at risk for hepatitis B infection (horizontal transmission) and so could their young playmates, especially if the playmates were born in foreign countries/adopted from foreign countries, where chronic hepatitis B is endemic and where perinatal hepatitis B prevention programs are in place…but may not be effectively managed?

        Here’s an MMWR article about strategies in place to eliminate vertical and horizontal transmission of the hepatitis B virus to infants and children.

      • lilady January 17, 2013 at 21:09 #

        Missing from my post…the MMWR article about public health strategies to prevent transmission of the Hepatitis B virus to newborns and children…

        http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5416a1.htm

      • Julian Frost January 18, 2013 at 05:39 #

        According to the literature, the reason vaccines are given at birth is that infected women also pass the virus to their newborns during childbirth. so they are giving my child a vaccine based on the assumption that my wife is lying about her Hep B status.

        Straw Man. In a lot of cases people don’t know they’re HepB carriers. In addition, your wife could be exposed to HepB through an accident. She was given the HepB vaccine because the negative consequences of the child getting HepB vastly outweigh the negative consequences af vaccinating a HepB negative person.

      • futuredave5 January 18, 2013 at 10:58 #

        Julian; I understand what you are saying, but wouldn’t it have been easier to just check my wife for Hep B? After all, she had a reservation with this hospital for nine months. She had been in for regular tests four times. It seems like they could have added a Hep B test to that schedule a lot more easily than giving a vaccine to a baby that is only a few hours old.

        Your claim that negative consequences of the child getting HepB vastly outweigh the negative consequences of vaccinating a HepB negative person is the straw man argument.

        If every non-vaccinated child got Hep b, then we could weigh the consequences one-for one. In fact, what we should be weighing is the risk of vaccinating every child (at birth) compared to the risk of vaccinating at 6 months old.

        More to the point, we really don’t know what the risk of the Hep B Vaccine is. Considering that http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/08/hepatitis-b-vaccine-triples-the-risk-of-autism-in-infant-boys.aspx It seems absurd to say that we understand the risk of the Hep B Vaccine. We don’t.

      • Lawrence January 18, 2013 at 11:03 #

        @futuredave – you should know that quoting Mercola isn’t going to get you a lot of credibility on this site.

        Sure, you and your wife may be negative for HepB (it could also be a false negative test as well), but how about all of the people that will be interacting with your child in and after the hospital?

        Better to guarantee the child is protected, using a vaccine that has been proven to be incredibly safe and has only extremely rare side-effects, than to take the chance of accidental exposure down the road.

        So, please find some better evidence than Mercola – then perhaps we can have a rational discussion.

      • futuredave5 January 18, 2013 at 11:20 #

        Lawrence: i am not your google: Look it up yourself. The findings that Mercola reported were determined using normal statistical means. I understand that this board attacks every source that is not Paul Offit, but really, this hero-worship has to stop somewhere.

        You are wrong about Hep B. Instead of attacking everyone who dares to question the safety study of vaccine companies, maybe we should be looking into the thousands of reports of parents and asking if maybe the parents are telling the truth.

        http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058170

      • Lawrence January 18, 2013 at 21:07 #

        futuredave – you don’t think the research has or is being done? Vaccines are one of the most studies and regulated items on the planet – there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of research papers out there that deal with individual vaccines, combination vaccines, population studies, retroactive studies, prospective studies, etc, etc, etc.

        None of which show that, for the vast majority of people out there, vaccines are anything more than a preventative measure against disease.

        The last exhaustive retrospective examination of all of the research showed that vaccine side effects and reactions were mild in the vast majority of cases, and even in the cases of serious reaction, happened with such infrequency that it was impossible to truly link them to vaccines.

        Of course, the research will continue – vaccines will continue to be improved upon, but to base your decision upon every single possible iteration of interaction, without really any evidence to the contrary that this would pose a problem, is really falling into the realm of both the “Perfect World” and “Nirvana Fallacies.”

      • futuredave5 January 18, 2013 at 21:50 #

        Lawrence, For adding the appropriate disclaimers. I tend to agree with you, when you say “the majority”, or “For most people”.

        I am not sure that I would have done anything differently. But I might have waited a few months.

        Maybe.

    • lilady January 17, 2013 at 18:55 #

      CIA Parker, you didn’t answer my question about “Screaming Syndrome ” that I posed to you above. Why not?

      Also CIA Parker you received a Td “booster” when you were in college and there is no evidence of that vaccine being implicated in the onset of Multiple Sclerosis. Quite to the contrary, there are a number of studies that indicate tetanus boosters are “protective” against M.S.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16864810

      Neurology. 2006 Jul 25;67(2):212-5.
      Tetanus vaccination and risk of multiple sclerosis: a systematic review.
      Hernán MA, Alonso A, Hernández-Díaz S.
      Source

      Department of Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA 02115, USA. miguel_hernan@post.harvard.edu
      Abstract
      OBJECTIVE:

      To conduct a systematic review on the association between tetanus vaccination and the risk of multiple sclerosis (MS).
      METHODS:

      The authors searched the databases Medline, LILACS, EMBASE, and Science Citation Index including the period 1966 to September 1, 2005. Eligible studies had to meet the following inclusion criteria: presentation of original data, case-control or cohort design, physician-confirmed diagnosis of MS as the outcome of interest, attempt to ascertain vaccinations in a period before the diagnosis, and report of an association measure between tetanus vaccination and incidence of MS, and its 95% CI or enough information to compute it. Study specific log ORs were weighted by the inverse of their variances to obtain a pooled estimate and its 95% CI.
      RESULTS:

      The OR of MS associated with history of tetanus vaccination was 0.67 (95% CI: 0.55 to 0.81). There was little indication of heterogeneity of results across studies.
      CONCLUSION:

      Tetanus vaccination is associated with a lower risk of multiple sclerosis.

      • ciaparker January 17, 2013 at 21:58 #

        You’d have to prove they contracted it in childhood. Hard to do. Dr. Sears says in The Vaccine Book that there was only an average of 360 children a year being diagnosed with hep-B, nearly all of them, if not all, born to infected mothers. “So how did the researchers make the jump in their estimates and come up with 30,000 kids? (the number estimated by the CDC to be getting it every year, apparently just to get the wheels in motion to justify starting this cataclysmic vaccine program. ) One assumption they made was that since only about 10% of kids who catch hep b show symptoms right away and some suffer only minor flu symptoms that never get diangnosed as hep and pass with very little trouble, these cases might be rarely found and reported until the child becomes very ill, which might not occur until they are young adults. In this is true, it could account for about 3600 infections each year in kids. But that is still far short of the estimated 30,000. …In the preceding paragraph (p. 51 first edition Vaccine Book), I conceded that you could multiply this number (the 360 cases diagnosed a year in children) by ten (since only about 10% of childhood cases show symptoms) and come up with an approximate 3600 cases each year of kids who are hep B positive. But I still can’t find a logical way to increase this number to 30,000.” Hilary Butler explained it by saying that most people who have hep-B will be unwilling to share private details of their sex lives and illegal drug use with investigators, and will just shrug their shoulders and say they have no idea how they got it. And the researchers say, Bingo! He must have gotten it as a child by some as yet unknown vector. Let’s vaccinate all newborns with this devastatingly dangerous vax and say it will prevent hep-B in babies and children (in whom it was vanishingly rarely present in reality). Remember, Patti White testified before Congress in 1999 that her association of school nurses was certain that the tsunami of autism hitting Missouri kindergartens starting in 1996 was caused by the start of this vaccine campaign in 1991. And they gave it to my baby without even asking permission, adding one more to the wave of autistic kindergartners come 2006.

        Hepatitis-B is more dangerous when children get it, but they very rarely do. Most people who get it are miserably ill for a long time, months or even years, and then recover with permanent immunity. Only a tiny minority goes on to develop liver disease or cancer, and die from it, usually drug addicts or alcoholics, with health already impaired by their addictions.

        This is asinine. I know the vaccine has made billions for Big Pharma, but is it really worth it to prevent hep-B in a population that does not have it to start with? The vaccine gives very short-term protection. The manufacturer says four years, the CDC says ten to fifteen. So it would wear off before the kids are old enough to have unsafe sex and do drugs. And there have been more adverse event reports made to the VAERS on this vaccine than from all the other vaccines put together, said Judy Converse in her excellent book When Your Doctor is Wrong: The Hepatitis-B Vaccine & Autism.

      • cia parker January 18, 2013 at 15:24 #

        L,

        We all know where you’re coming from. I have told you what happened to my baby. Her screaming started Tuesday evening, May 9, 2000. She was born by emergency C-section at 7:30 a.m., May 5, given the hep-B vax, according to her hospital records which I later requested, at ten to midnight, May 5. Encephalitic reactions to the hep-B vax, when they occur, usually start between three and five days after receipt of the vaccine. Hers started a few hours short of four days after the vax. Didn’t end until Saturday afternoon. She screamed sixteen to eighteen hours per 24-hour period. Colic doesn’t start in the first week, doesn’t interfere with feeding. Usually doesn’t last anywhere near eighteen hours a day, maybe never. She was in the first week of life, and the pain of the brain swelling made her lose one pound two ounces in the first two days of the screaming. She had nursed avidly before the reaction started and after it ended on Saturday, but she scarcely could nurse at all while it was in progress. Her screaming syndrome coincides in every way with the typical symptoms of an encephalitic reaction to a vaccine, and her subsequent diagnosis of autism is what caused me to believe that the encephalitic screaming was a symptom of extremely severe brain damage caused by the reaction to the vaccine. You can say you believe what you want to, but you weren’t there then and aren’t here now to care for her.

        Thank you, Dave, your points are extremely valid and well-taken. Maybe it’s time more credence were given to the testimony of vaccine-damaged families.

      • ciaparker January 19, 2013 at 19:04 #

        If Sullivan decides not to publish the long comment I posted this morning about screaming syndrome, etc., maybe you could ask that she send it to you in a private e-mail.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 19, 2013 at 21:44 #

        Spare me the implication of censorship. You’ve taken over this thread quite completely with repeated false statements. I suspect your “screaming syndrome” comment is long, dull and inaccurate. And in the spam trap. I frankly don’t feel like taking the time on a Saturday to pull out my computer and check.

  24. Chris January 18, 2013 at 01:55 #

    Sullivan:

    The book was not recalled. The second edition has the correction, which puts Mr. Handley in an even worse light. Dr. Offit’s next book was even more critical of Mr. Handley. Pretty much a textbook example of how a frivolous lawsuit can backfire.

    I have the original wording and the modified wording handy. Shall I post it?

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 18, 2013 at 14:24 #

      That would be fine by me.

    • cia parker January 18, 2013 at 15:11 #

      Those who are interested may read here about the libel in Offit’s book Autism’s False Prophets, and read the terms of the final settlement, as well as read the letter of apology which Offit was compelled to send to Handley.

      http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/10/dr-paul-offit-the-autism-expert-doesnt-see-patients-with-autism.html

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 18, 2013 at 15:50 #

        The Age of Autism blog is a libelous site. They would never exist in a country like the UK

        Did Mr. Handley publish his invoices from his attorneys? I’d be very intrested in reading that. Could their new effort to fund a vaccinated/unvaccinated study have been financed with the money thrown away on getting a letter of apology?

        What was the substance of the passage in Autism’s False Prophets? It was that Mr. Handley is very litigious. Gee, he sure showed us…

    • Chris January 18, 2013 at 16:59 #

      Here it is:

      These are the original words that were removed: “On her Web site, Seidel pleaded with Handley to stop promoting a “therapy” that had never been shown to work and was potentially dangerous. Handley wrote back:…”

      This is the revised wording: “Although many scientists and clinicians were concerned about the harmful effects of chelation, Handley was unbowed. He firmly believed his Rescue Angels, who preached that clelation could rescue children from autism, were serving a valuable and noble cause. Indeed, when he learned that one of his Angels, a teacher, had posted some data on the increasing rates illness, obtained from school medical records, and that post was anonymously sent to the administrators at her workplace with a demand that they question the Angel’s professional and personal judgement, Handley posted the following message addressed to the “neurodiverse crowd”:…”

      The threats to sue were not changed. The new wording does not do Handley any favors.

      (I have the original hardcover and took photos of the revised edition in a library, so I hand typed the words, so forgive the typos.)

  25. cia parker January 18, 2013 at 15:02 #

    http://www.mctlawyers.com/vaccine-injury/brachial-neuritis.php

    Says that brachial neuritis (I think what I had was a variant called brachial neuropathy, and I can quickly google a link showing that that’s also a side effect of the tetanus vaccine) is a known side effect of the tetanus vaccine. Both my arms were paralyzed and sore starting the same day as the tetanus booster I got. As I have said, I asked for a tetanus booster, but they may have given it to me as a DPT. My dorm roommate helped me carry my tray, eat, and dress for a few days until it wore off. I went on to develop MS. You’re right, I have no proof that there’s a connection, but I believe there was, from the mercury that was in the many DPTs I got, eight as a child, the ninth was that fateful booster eight years after the last of the childhood DPTs, when I was nineteen. All the symptoms of MS, paraysis, numbness, dizziness, wobbly gait, insomnia, extreme fatigue, are also symptoms of mercury poisoning.

    L., I really don’t care how many studies you cite that say vaccines do not cause MS, my experience and much of what I have read say they do, and so I would have to say I consider your pharma-funded studies as unreliable as you at least say that you find our studies.

    France took the hep-B vax off the mandatory vaccine schedule in 1998 when so many people developed MS shortly after getting the hep-B vax for school. The hep-B vax has been proven to cause mitochondrial disorder, and I think this is yet another effect of mercury poisoning, as Boyd Haley says, the mercury binds exceptionally tightly to the electron-transporting system on a cellular level, causing oxidative stress.

    • Lawrence January 18, 2013 at 16:14 #

      cia – really? You’re citing evidence from lawyers?

      Have you volunteered for any research studies yet cia?

      • ciaparker January 19, 2013 at 15:42 #

        Yes, I have contacted two of the vaccine researchers that you were kindly enough to refer me to on the two occasions that I have asked you to do so. Thanks so much, I”m sure this will lead to a greater understanding of genetic susceptibility to vaccine damage.

    • lilady January 18, 2013 at 18:14 #

      “France took the hep-B vax off the mandatory vaccine schedule in 1998 when so many people developed MS shortly after getting the hep-B vax for school. The hep-B vax has been proven to cause mitochondrial disorder, and I think this is yet another effect of mercury poisoning, as Boyd Haley says, the mercury binds exceptionally tightly to the electron-transporting system on a cellular level, causing oxidative stress.”

      Still making things up, CIA?

      http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/topics/hepatitisb/ms/en/

      “There has been extensive use of hepatitis B vaccine in France in recent years, with more than 25 million people being vaccinated. Several case reports have raised concerns that hepatitis B immunization may be linked to new cases or relapse of multiple sclerosis (MS). As a result of public and professional concern, on 1 October 1998 the French Ministry of Health temporarily suspended the school-based adolescent hepatitis B vaccine programme. It nevertheless maintained the recommendations for universal infant immunization and administration of the vaccine to adults at special risk, and reiterated its support for adolescent vaccination. The French decision was misunderstood and interpreted as a ban on hepatitis B immunization, generating widespread concern in other countries…..”

      Read the rest of the report from the WHO including the many studies that disprove that there is a link between hepatitis B vaccine and the
      onset of M.S.

      BTW, the *scare* that was manufactured by cranks has impacted the uptake of the vaccine in France, even after the “temporary suspension” of the vaccine, which is now listed on the current schedule of childhood vaccines in France. (Similar to the Wakefield *research* scare and uptake of the MMR vaccine in France that has resulted in major outbreaks of measles).

      • ciaparker January 18, 2013 at 19:08 #

        Many of the French who had gotten the hep-B vax and developed MS soon after brought lawsuits against the French government which had mandated it, and the requirement was rescinded as a result:
        “In a sudden reversal of health policy, France has decided to suspend Hepatitis B vaccinations in secondary schools because of fears that the vaccine causes neurological disorders.” New York Times, Oct. 3, 1998.

        The package insert of the Engerix hepatitis-B vaccine advises that people who already have MS should not take the vaccine unless there is a very good overriding reason why they should.

      • Lawrence January 18, 2013 at 20:12 #

        Interesting cia – since I just looked up the French Vaccination Schedule & definitely see HepB on there…..care to explain?

  26. ciaparker January 18, 2013 at 19:26 #

    Neurology published a study in 2004 which showed increased risk of developing MS after the hep-B vax. Hernán M.A. et al, “Recombinant hepatitis-B vaccine and the risk of multiple sclerosis: a prospective study.” Neurology 2004;63:838-842.

    Chinese Medical Journal documented MS occurring after hep-B vax. Terney, D. et al, “MS after hep-B vax in a 16-year old patient,” CMJ 2006; 119(1):77-79.

    Neurology published two studies in which two children developed pediatric MS in a statistically relevant period after getting hep-B vax. Yann, M. et al, “Hep B vax and the risk of CNS inflammatory demyelination in childhood, “Oct 8, 2008, published online.

    Ness, J.M., et al, “Hepatitis vaccines and pediatric MS. Does timing or type matter?” Neurology Dec. 17, 2008, published online.

    I have citations to dozens of studies right here which proved that the hep-B vaccine can cause thrombocytopenia, transverse myelitis, arthritis, lupus, Guillain-Barré syndrome, seizures, peripheral neuropathy, Bell’s palsy, radiculopathy, encephalitis, Stevens-Johnson syndrome, eczema, anaphylaxis, bronchial spasms, tachycardia, optic neuritis, and diabetes. It is by no stretch of the imagination a safe vaccine. The only question is whether the patient’s risk of getting hep-B, and/or dying of it if he gets it, are great enough or frightening enough to take the risk of getting this dangerous vaccine. I think most people, if they knew the true (nonexistent) risk of their baby getting the disease (if the mother is healthy), and the true considerable dangers of the vaccine, would decline it for both their newborns and their children.

  27. ciaparker January 18, 2013 at 19:32 #

    From Think Twice.com: FRANCE STOPS VACCINATING CHILDREN WITH HEPATITIS B
    15,000 French citizens filed a lawsuit against the French government for understating the risks and overstating the benefits associated with the Hepatitis B vaccine. Hundreds of people were reported to have suffered from autoimmune and neurological disorders, including multiple sclerosis, following Hepatitis B vaccination. As a result, in October 1998, the French Minister of Health ended the mandatory Hepatitis B vaccination program for all school children.

    So it looks as though the hep-B vax had been mandatory for schoolchildren, but, after all the cases of MS caused by it, the government changed it from mandatory to recommended. So now it’s just a caveat emptor situation, certainly much better than trying to force people to incur serious, permanent neurological damage.

  28. ciaparker January 18, 2013 at 19:33 #

    Has the WHO refuted the studies I cited, or are they just in their usual train-train of pushing vaccines as much as is possible for them to do?

    • lilady January 18, 2013 at 20:23 #

      According to Parker…”The package insert of the Engerix hepatitis-B vaccine advises that people who already have MS should not take the vaccine unless there is a very good overriding reason why they should.”

      Why don’t you learn how to read a Package Insert, Parker?

      Where does it state in the Engerix Package Insert (that it) “advises that people who already have MS should not take the vaccine unless there is a very good overriding reason why they should.”?

      Here’s the Engerix Prescribing Information

      http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM224503.pdf

      Multiple Sclerosis is listed under “Warnings and Precautions” (Reactions)

      Reactions
      5.6 Moderate or Severe Acute Illness
      5.7 Altered Immunocompetence
      5.8 Multiple Sclerosis
      5.9 Limitations of Vaccine Effectiveness

      5.8 Multiple Sclerosis
      Results from 2 clinical studies indicate that there is no association between hepatitis B vaccination and the development of multiple sclerosis,3 and that vaccination with hepatitis B vaccine does not appear to increase the short-term risk of relapse in multiple sclerosis.4

      Here are the two studies referred to in the Engerix Prescribing information, Parker.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11172163

      N Engl J Med. 2001 Feb 1;344(5):327-32.
      Hepatitis B vaccination and the risk of multiple sclerosis.
      Ascherio A, Zhang SM, Hernán MA, Olek MJ, Coplan PM, Brodovicz K, Walker AM.
      Source

      Department of Epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA 02115, USA. alberto.ascherio@channing.harvard.edu
      Abstract
      BACKGROUND:

      Reports of multiple sclerosis developing after hepatitis B vaccination have led to the concern that this vaccine might be a cause of multiple sclerosis in previously healthy subjects.
      METHODS:

      We conducted a nested case-control study in two large cohorts of nurses in the United States, those in the Nurses’ Health Study (which has followed 121,700 women since 1976) and those in the Nurses’ Health Study II (which has followed 116,671 women since 1989). For each woman with multiple sclerosis, we selected as controls five healthy women and one woman with breast cancer. Information about hepatitis B vaccination was obtained by means of a mailed questionnaire and was confirmed by means of vaccination certificates. The analyses included 192 women with multiple sclerosis and 645 matched controls and were conducted with the use of conditional logistic regression.
      RESULTS:

      The multivariate relative risk of multiple sclerosis associated with exposure to the hepatitis B vaccine at any time before the onset of the disease was 0.9 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.5 to 1.6). The relative risk associated with hepatitis B vaccination within two years before the onset of the disease was 0.7 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.3 to 1.8). The results were similar in analyses restricted to women with multiple sclerosis that began after the introduction of the recombinant hepatitis B vaccine. There was also no association between the number of doses of vaccine received and the risk of multiple sclerosis.
      CONCLUSIONS:

      These results indicate no association between hepatitis B vaccination and the development of multiple sclerosis.

      And here….

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11172162

      N Engl J Med. 2001 Feb 1;344(5):319-26.
      Vaccinations and the risk of relapse in multiple sclerosis. Vaccines in Multiple Sclerosis Study Group.
      Confavreux C, Suissa S, Saddier P, Bourdès V, Vukusic S; Vaccines in Multiple Sclerosis Study Group.
      Source

      European Database for Multiple Sclerosis Coordinating Center and the Service de Neurologie A, H pital Neurologique, Lyons, France.
      Abstract
      BACKGROUND:

      There has been some concern that vaccination may precipitate the onset of multiple sclerosis or lead to relapses. Since the recent hepatitis B vaccination program in France, there have been new reports of an increased risk of active multiple sclerosis after vaccination.
      METHODS:

      We conducted a case-crossover study to assess whether vaccinations increase the risk of relapse in multiple sclerosis. The subjects were patients included in the European Database for Multiple Sclerosis who had a relapse between 1993 and 1997. The index relapse was the first relapse confirmed by a visit to a neurologist and preceded by a relapse-free period of at least 12 months. Information on vaccinations was obtained in a standardized telephone interview and confirmed by means of medical records. Exposure to vaccination in the two-month risk period immediately preceding the relapse was compared with that in the four previous two-month control periods for the calculation of relative risks, which were estimated with the use of conditional logistic regression.
      RESULTS:

      Of 643 patients with relapses of multiple sclerosis, 15 percent reported having been vaccinated during the preceding 12 months. The reports of 94 percent of these vaccinations were confirmed. Of all the patients, 2.3 percent had been vaccinated during the preceding two-month risk period as compared with 2.8 to 4.0 percent who were vaccinated during one or more of the four control periods. The relative risk of relapse associated with exposure to any vaccination during the previous two months was 0.71 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.40 to 1.26). There was no increase in the specific risk of relapse associated with tetanus, hepatitis B, or influenza vaccination (range of relative risks, 0.22 to 1.08). Analyses based on risk periods of one and three months yielded similar results.
      CONCLUSIONS:

      Vaccination does not appear to increase the short-term risk of relapse in multiple sclerosis.

      Did you happen to miss the Warnings and Precautions in the Engerix Prescribing Information (Reactions), Parker?

      Do you understand the difference between a “Contraindication” and a “Warning and Precaution/Reactions” when listed in the vaccine manufacturers’ Prescribing Information?

      Do you understand how a “Package Insert” is written to conform to FDA regulations about reporting any reactions that have been reported…even though those “reactions” have not been confirmed in the large studies that Engerix provided?

  29. lilady January 18, 2013 at 21:17 #

    Parker, you’ve been busy posting your nonsense about your child’s “vaccine-induced encephalitis/Screaming Syndrome” on Autismum’s blog. There you have been claiming that you’ve proven your *theories* and are now claiming that your nonsense is “primie facie evidence”.

    No, it isn’t “primie facie evidence”.

    http://autismum.com/2012/09/05/your-babys-best-shot/#comment-3011

    What is prima facie evidence is that…

    – You are fixated on your child’s developmental disability and your own health, and will not be dissuaded by proof that you and your child are not *injured* or *damaged* by vaccines.

    – You are in serious need of professional help to deal with your emotional issues and to help you to developing parenting skills to deal with your special needs child.

    -You continually libel respected scientists, researchers, doctors, bloggers and posters on blogs…in spite of you being a licensed attorney (albeit, on inactive status).

    To sum up your state of mind and your tactics, Parker: Res ipsa loquitur.

  30. ciaparker January 19, 2013 at 16:01 #

    One man’s meat is another man’s poison. I’ve read the book The Age of Autism twice, and have found it spellbinding both times. I found the English elegant and its data, reflections thereon, and conclusions so intricate and elegantly woven, that I was left both stunned and entranced. The history of mercury’s use in standard medications, especially its universal use to treat syphilis, was very interesting, people knowing it killed about as many or more than it helped, and using it anyway. Not putting together the high incidence of GPI (general paraysis of the insane) among those treated for syphilis with mercury with the cause for so many years, ignoring the evidence right in front of them, the complete absence of GPI in Norway, alone in all the First World (if such a word may be used for that century) because they didn’t use mercury medication for syphilis there. The mercury connection in Freud’s hysteria cases was hilarious, his seeking a weird sexual explanation for the physical symptoms caused by mercury exposure. I found the section on the Tuskegee experiment, in which they withheld the standard mercury treatments from a group of syphilitic black me to observe the natural course of the disease sad and funny. The men had a better outcome than the typical patient who received mercury treatments, until the advent of antibiotics in the 1940s. My father and grandfather were both named for one of the doctors involved at that hospital in Alabama, both named before the beginning of the experiment, a Dr. Searcy, who was a friend of the family as well as their doctor. I felt surprised and ashamed when I read that. The sad chapter on all the babies killed by acrodynia, from the mercury-containing teething powders that were used on them. The mystery of why some, but by no means all, of those so treated reacted so violently to the mercury in the powder. The riveting chapter on Kanner’s first cohort of autistic children ever seen, and their connection to the mercury-containing diphtheria shot and fungicides, used for the first time in the 1930s, the decade all these children were born. The intricate biochemical explanations for thimerosal’s causing the systemic glitches resulting in autism were hard for me to follow, but I was impressed by their cogency and the studies in reputable scientific and medical journals cited.

    It’s 400 pages long, but I found it well worth the effort involved, and can only say that I would recommend it highly to those who are interested in the subject of the causes of autism. I’m sorry you didn’t like it, Sulliven, but can only say that everyone has his own preferences that others may not understand.

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 19, 2013 at 22:09 #

      The authors of the book demonstrated the denialism of the mercury proponents. The evidence is overwhelmingly against them in the proposition that mercury caused the raise in autism. Instead of accepting that, they applied the same poor methodology of speculation and misrepresentation of medicine to claim that mercury was behind many other conditions. It was a sad waste of effort. The fact that people given such gifts of intelligence have squandered those gifts makes me very sad. The harm they try to cause bothers me a great deal.

      • Low Budget Dave January 20, 2013 at 13:54 #

        I don’t know that I buy the theory that anti-vax people are “trying to cause harm”. I suspect that they are trying to understand a condition that has resisted all efforts. I suspect that when we eventually figure out autism, it will turn out that there are dozens (if not thousands) of related conditions that we have grouped together.

        There are a number of people out there who have given chelation a try, with various results. If it works for someone, and they decide to write a book, then good for them. Just because it does not work for someone else, that does not prove they are evil.

      • cia parker January 20, 2013 at 16:23 #

        Thank you for your comment, Low Budget Dave. I hope and pray to God that chelation is going to help us. I think it is a big mistake for Big Pharma to have taken the tack of branding us as evil, one that it has already seen is backfiring on them. A woman at AoA told me that chelation had completely recovered her son from autism, and they were so thankful and happy to have him as a normally functioning member of their family. She was happy to share her experience with me, it gave me renewed hope, and I am happy to share our experiences with others. It is like with the affected parent-discovered GFCF diet, doctors still scoff at it, and deny it is connected to autism, my daughter’s doctor didn’t want us to try it for her severe, permanent constipation (another symptom of mercury poisoning), as she feared nutritional deficiencies, merely repeating the party line of her group. We did it anyway, the way many thousands of happy parents have done before us, and, just as it has done for many of them, it miraculously stopped the problem within two days of starting the diet.

        Dave, I just saw on AoA the other day that a frequent commenter who lives in India, Cherry Misra, said that she thought autism following the MMR was the result of the live viruses in the vaccine potentiating the heavy metals stored from previous vaccines. I don’t think she said it in exactly those words, but I filtered it through what I had learned in Age of Autism about viruses potentiating stored heavy metals, and it was a Eureka moment! I had until then been content to say autism could be caused by the shock to the brain reacting to the injection (encephalitis), heavy metals, the skewing of the immune system’s response from a Th 1 response to a Th 2 autoimmune response, and putting autism caused by the MMR in a different category from autism caused by a killed-virus vaccine with heavy metals. But this theory allows me to link them together in a new and logical way.

        Just as Boyd Haley’s explanation of how mercury in vaccines causes mitochondrial damage by binding exceptionally tightly to the electron-transporting system of the mitochondria on a cellular level, causing oxidative stress. I thought again, Eureka! That explains why everyone with MS (like me) feels such extreme, permanent fatigue. The mercury that caused the MS causes the same impairment of the mitochondial function of releasing energy from nutrients consumed.

        You are right, this is not evil, this is looking for, and finding, answers where none have been forthcoming from the medical establishment.

  31. ciaparker January 19, 2013 at 16:10 #

    I read that Dr. Halvorsen had been threatened with legal consequences if he did not take statements supporting the MMR’s causing autism off his blog. I was shocked, since the MMR indeed does often cause autism with stunning frequency, I was surprised that a civilized country would try to censor such a widely-held opinion, which has by no means been disproven. To the contrary, the evidence that it does is piling up every day.

    I’m glad that in the U.S. we have freedom of speech and freedom of the press. I had believed that you did in Great Britain as well. The term libel cannot be applied to statements with so much factual supporting evidence, as well as so much sincere belief in its truth. At most you can only say that you don’t believe that it’s true, and not that we don’t believe that it’s true.

    • ciaparker January 19, 2013 at 16:22 #

      In the congressional hearing on vaccines and autism at the beginning of last month, congressmen were puzzled as to why congressional mandates which have been twice given to carry out a large-scale vax/unvax study, have not been done. When congresswoman Malone asked CDC doctor Colleen Coyle if the CDC were studying the connection between vaccines and autism, Coyle, of Brick Township infamy, refused three times to answer the question.

      • lilady January 19, 2013 at 18:37 #

        That hearing’s agenda was changed after Andrew Wakefield met with certain key congressmen on that Committee repeatedly, starting March 2012. Wakefield and a “witness from AoA, wined and dined these Congressmen and their wives.

        Aren’t you indignant about the Congressmen’s ethical problems, by their acceptance of Wakefield’s largesse? I am.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 19, 2013 at 21:57 #

        I was saddened by this. Mr. Wakefield lied to the same committee about the source of his funding. The idea that he would be given any credibility now, especially after being found guilty of multiple ethical violations, is sad,

      • futuredave5 January 20, 2013 at 14:10 #

        I don’t know that one guy taking a few Congressmen out to dinner even enters into the picture as far as conflict of interest goes. Last year Merck spent well over $8 million on lobbying efforts, and they are hardly alone among drug companies that try to influence Congress, in many cases with multiple piles of cash, not just a few drinks at TGI Friday’s.

        If we assume that a couple of hundred bucks is an attempt at bribery, then what is a few million?

      • Thomas January 19, 2013 at 21:31 #

        Typical. After advertising an autism hearing, they held a vaccine hearing – a slap in the face to all the parents (and autistic people) who wrote with suggestions for how Congress could help them. Another betrayal of the autism community.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 19, 2013 at 22:04 #

        Please, shown us the congressional mandates you refer to. You can search using Thomas.gov.

        What you will find is that Representative Making has *introduced* bills but they have not been passed.

        In other words there are no such mandates.

      • ciaparker January 20, 2013 at 01:38 #

        Hundreds of the constituents of the congressmen have contacted them about their children’s autism being caused by vaccines, and they thought they should show their support for their contituents by holding this hearing. Carolyn Maloney has been instrumental in getting a vax/unvax study to be called for, and is unhappy that so far it has not been done. I know I”ve told my senators and representative about our situation.

      • ciaparker January 20, 2013 at 16:46 #

        Either Dave,
        I’d be interested in knowing your reactions to this article, about when you should part ways with your pediatrician. I thought it was a good point to make that your pedi should ask you about all autoimmune conditions in your family that could make your child more vulnerable to vaccine damage before vaccinating. And it was a great idea that if he wants you to sign a doc saying that he has informed you of the dangers of not vaxing, to present him with a doc to sign that he will be fully responsible in every way if the parent decides to vaccinate and the child reacts adversely.

        http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/01/breaking-up-is-not-hard-to-do.html#more

      • futuredave5 January 20, 2013 at 22:07 #

        I tend to agree that parents need to be less trusting of doctors in general. One of the first doctors we went to told us that “there is no window of opportunity” for therapy. She specifically told us that we would try an hour a week, and step it up to 5 hours if one hour didn’t work.

        After she told me that, I read some studies, and found out that everything she said is contradicted by current research. In fact, there is a window of opportunity for therapy, and intensive early therapy produces better results than intensive late therapy.

        This particular doctor was an MD and a Psychologist, and was used by the State of Florida to decide what kind of therapy hours were needed. It was only later that they admitted that they give everyone one hour of therapy, because that is all the state pays for. I wonder, from time to time, how many parents have been set back how many years by listening to the advice of this one doctor.

        For vaccines, I tend to believe roughly the same thing, although the medical literature seems to be much more vague in this respect. In the case of ABA, I found plenty of research to support the conclusion that early and intensive therapy produced better results.

        For vaccines, all I found was isolated case studies of individual children who had bad vaccine reactions, The best the medical literature could recommend was that each parent observe the reactions carefully, and decide about immunizations on a case-by-case basis.

        In our case, it was easy to decide to discontinue certain vaccines. There were two doctors who were familiar with his entire vaccine history, and both recommended that we discontinue certain vaccines. The verdict is split on Polio, though, because we cannot determine if he has any immunity from the one vaccine he has received.

        Without getting into the details, though, I think there is a good chance that my son is the exception rather than the rule. The reactions that we witnessed, and the titer tests that we obtained, were well outside the norm. In fact, they were well outside what our doctor considered the “upper limit.”

        I have discussed some of the detail on this board, and I found it helpful in some ways, but frustrating in others. On the one hand, some people here explained some of the science that was outside my field of expertise. On the other hand, they doubted my judgement, questioned my motives, and implied that I was lying.

        I am still not able to handle certain accusations very well, and I over-reacted. I doubt I am the first parent to do so. It is a bad habit, though, because I should instead be getting as much information as possible to help my son. Arguing on other people’s blogs can be time-consuming and uninformative.

        If I were to do it over, I think we would have delayed the Hep B vaccine. Hep B is a dangerous disease, but the risk of exposure in the first three months, in his case, was much lower than the risk of not eating for three days, and not sleeping for a week. I doubt the vaccine caused my son’s autism, but it certainly didn’t seem to help him.

        I suspect we would still have gotten the MMR, the DPT, and whatever those other shots were. To me, those fall in the same category as global warming: I don’t know the science, but I tend to trust the people that do. Until they make me think otherwise, of course.

        My apologies if I appear under two different names. My phone assigned me a different name on login, and I don’t know how to get it to stop.

    • MikeMa January 19, 2013 at 16:29 #

      In spite of your statement about widely held beliefs, the science shows no correlation between MMR and autism. None.I’ll take the science over your moronic beliefs.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 19, 2013 at 22:02 #

        Given the disability focus of this blog, could I ask you to use a different term than “moronic”? Frankly, many with intellectual disability use the gifts they have to better effect than does CIA Parker with her gifts.

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 17:50 #

        Dave,
        If your write to me, you could write to Dan Olmsted at AoA and ask him to forward your email to me, I could recommend books in which you could find the information you’re looking for.

    • lilady January 19, 2013 at 18:27 #

      Is this the same Dr. Halvorsen you are referring to? His claims were based on Wakefield’s fraudulent research and he was directed to remove those claims by the U.K. A.S.A. (Advertising Standards Authority)

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/9460914/MMR-vaccine-causes-autism-claim-banned.html

      MMR vaccine causes autism’ claim banned

      “A website offering parents advice on childhood immunisation has been ordered to remove information about the MMR vaccine after renewing claims that it could be linked to autism.”

      “….Upholding the complaint, the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) noted that the website makes clear that the original allegations of a link between the MMR vaccine and autism by Andrew Wakefield was “strongly rejected” by government and the medical establishment”.

      But it said consumers are likely to infer from the website’s claims that the vaccine might have played a role in the “increase” in the number of children with autism.

      The ASA said: “We understood that the position held by the World Health Organisation and the Department of Health was that no evidence existed of a causal association between the MMR vaccine and autism or autistic disorders, and that the Cochrane review, looking at the general evidence available, could find no significant association between MMR immunisation and autism

      “We noted that the evidence provided by the advertiser included studies and an article which looked at the increased prevalence of autism, but did not include evidence that any increase was due to the MMR vaccine.”

      It ruled that the claims must not appear again in their current form.”

      (Halvorsen is the medical director of “Baby Jabs” a notorious anti-vaccine organization)

      Of course Parker, could always speak to Wakefield to ask him where the specimens removed from the bowels of the children who underwent bowel biopsies and the original scoring sheets from the pathologists who looked at those biopsies are. Those specimens that “mysteriously went missing”, according to the now retracted Lancet Wakefield study supposedly had the measles vaccine strain of the virus.

      Then too, is the lie that won’t die, being perpetuated by some of the parents who handed over their children to Wakefield to have them undergo painful, invasive, dangerous not-medically-indicated bowel cleansings, colonoscopies and biopsies and LPs. Those same parents who were referred to Wakefield by the lawyer who was putting together a case against the MMR vaccine manufacturer, have steadfastly maintained that they were not permitted to testify…a bald faced lie. Wakefield’s attorney could have, but did not, summon those parents to the GMC hearing to testify on behalf of Wakefield.

      Try again, Parker.

      • ciaparker January 19, 2013 at 19:06 #

        And all the parents (except maybe one father) were happy and grateful to Dr. Wakefield and his colleagues for the excellent treatment they gave to their children. Judge Mitting found that they had treated the children in a manner appropriate to their disease.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 19, 2013 at 21:40 #

        Andrew Wakefield was prohibited from providing care directly or in giving instructions for others to give care.

        Justice mitting never ruled on Andrew Wakefield’s breach of ethics in that regard. It is the first charge listed in the sanction against Mr. Wakefield. Justice Mitting did not and could not rule on the treatments given which did not involve Prof. Walker-Smith, so your broad claim is clearly false.

        Are we to go through all the old arguments? They weren’t convincing the first time.

      • Thomas January 19, 2013 at 21:32 #

        Judge Mitting also ruled that the claim that the MMR causes autism was completely unsupported.

      • lilady January 19, 2013 at 22:24 #

        Still posting your inanities Parker?

        Here you state…..

        “And all the parents (except maybe one father) were happy and grateful to Dr. Wakefield and his colleagues for the excellent treatment they gave to their children.”

        Why didn’t Wakefield and his attorney summon all those parents who were “happy and grateful……”, to testify on behalf of Wakefield during the Fitness to Practice Hearing conducted by the GMC?

        -Could it be that they would have to testify that they were referred to Wakefield by the lawyer who was preparing to sue the manufacturer of the MMR vaccine?

        -Could it be that they would have to testify that they were referred to the same lawyer, by JABS…a notorious anti-vaccine group in the U.K.?

        -Could it be that they were aware that some of their children were documented by “health care visitors” (nurses), as having signs of developmental delays, before they received the MMR vaccine?

        -Could it be that with their complicity, Wakefield falsified chart notes, about the date(s) of their children’s MMR and the dates of their children’s onset of autistic behaviors and/or GI symptoms, so that it appeared that the vaccine caused their autism/GI symptoms?

        -Could it be that under oath they would have to admit that they signed permission for Wakefield to order tests which were determined to be invasive, painful, dangerous and not-medically indicated?

        Parker you also stated…

        “Judge Mitting found that they had treated the children in a manner appropriate to their disease.”

        I’m calling B.S. on that statement as well, Parker. Here’s Judge Mitting’s ruling re: John Walker-Smith:

        http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2012/503.html

        Care to point out where Judge Mitting commented that Wakefield and Walker-Smith patients “were treated in a manner appropriate to their disease”?

      • cia parker January 20, 2013 at 16:02 #

        From website of Alliance for Human Research Protection:
        The UK High Court issued a ruling completely exonerating Dr. John Walker-Smith, co-author of the maligned vaccine article published by The Lancet in 1998.
        The article, co-authored by Dr. Andrew Wakefield was retracted in the midst of a frenzied, orchestrated witch-hunt. Justice John Mitting criticised the disciplinary panel’s “inadequate and superficial reasoning” and “wrong conclusions” before ruling: “The panel’s determination cannot stand. I therefore quash it.” He urged that in future such cases should be “chaired by someone with judicial experience.”

        Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2111481/Doctor-struck-MMR-controversy-clears-GMC-dismissal-ruled-High-Court.html#ixzz1oXzgkyLA

        The verdict restores Walker-Smith’s name to the medical register to the medical community, and absolves him of all charges. The basis of the GMC controversial hearing and draconian action against Dr. Andrew Wakefield and Dr. Walker-Smith were prompted entirely by Brian Deer a freelance reporter for Rupert Murdoch publications. No parent of the 12 children whose diagnosis and treatment were the subject of the Lancet paper ever filed a complaint–indeed they were barred from testifying on behalf of the doctors at the GMC hearing

        I stand on the shoulder of giants.

      • ciaparker January 20, 2013 at 17:22 #

        Thomas,
        Another boy is compensated a million dollars by Vaccine Court which found that the MMR had caused his autism:

        http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/CAMPBELL-SMITH.MOJABI-PROFFER.12.13.2012.pdf

    • lilady January 20, 2013 at 17:23 #

      Are you re-running your “tape” again Parker?

      That’s the same comment on Halvorsen, you posted here on January 19th at 16:10 and I already posted back at you, two hours later at 18:27.

      You’ve now resorting to spamming with your repeated stock comments…sorta like the Media Director at AoA a.k.a. “the bot”.

      • ciaparker January 20, 2013 at 17:50 #

        I only posted it once. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

  32. ciaparker January 19, 2013 at 16:31 #

    Vaccine Court has compensated several cases, determining that it had been proven that the hep-B vaccine had caused MS in the petitioners:

    http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/02/vaccine-court-hepatitis-b-shot-causes-ms.html

    The Special Masters commented that further study on the safety of the hep-B vax was needed.

    • Lara Lohne January 19, 2013 at 17:56 #

      ciaparker, gish gallop doesn’t make your point any more correct or factual. You are extremely mistake in your belief that vaccinations cause the things you think they do. You are taking things that have been said about people like you, who have trouble understanding science it would seem, and putting them on people who do understand science and that vaccination is by far the better choice over disease, but that doesn’t make your statements true, correct or factual. You are going farther and farther down the rabbit hole of illogic and self delusion. What you believe is based on a fairy tale. You may as well believe you have a fairy god mother as believe that vaccines cause all the things that you are claiming because scientific fact just does not back up your statements, and you appear more and more ridiculous with every post you make asserting that you are right and science is wrong.

    • lilady January 19, 2013 at 19:47 #

      Do you mean this case, Parker?

      http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/MILLMAN.DOE012109B_0.pdf

      Where is the rest of the case? The circumstances of the plaintiff’s pre-existing diseases and the course of her illness have have totally redacted. Why?

      Here’s what we do know about her rare disorder:

      http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/170302.php

      What Is Devic’s Disease? What Is Neuromyelitis Optica? What Causes Devic’s Disease?

      Devic’s disease, or neuromyelitis optica, (NMO) is a type of inflammatory demyelinating disease. A demyelinating disease occurs when the myelin sheath, a protective covering that surrounds brain and spinal cord nerves is damaged. In the case of Devic’s disease, the patient develops myelitis (inflammation of the spinal cord) and optic neuritis (inflammation of the optic nerve).

      According to the National Health Service, UK, a higher percentage of people of African and Asian ancestry develop Devic’s disease, compared to other people. However, anybody can be affected. The disease more commonly affects people when they are about 40 years of age.

      According to Medilexicon’s medical dictionary, neuromyelitis optica is “a demyelinating disorder consisting of a transverse myelopathy and optic neuritis”

      There are two main types of neuromyelitis optica:

      Relapsing neuromyelitis optica

      There is an initial attack of optic neuritis and transverse myelitis, and then subsequent attacks over a period of several years. Sometimes the patient cannot recover fully from the neurological damage the attacks cause to the optic nerve and/or spinal cause and the damage is permanent, causing disability. This type of neuromyelitis optica affects females more frequently than males.

      Monophasic neuromyelitis optica

      Few attacks are experienced over a period of days or weeks. There are no subsequent attacks. This form of neuromyelitis optica affects both sexes equally.

      What are the signs and symptoms of neuromyelitis optica?
      A symptom is something the patient feels and reports, while a sign is something other people, including a doctor or nurse may detect. For example, pain may be a symptom while a rash may be a sign.

      Signs and symptoms of neuromyelitis optica (NMO) vary according to many factors, including the type of NMO the patient has. Typically, a person with NMO will have at least one episode of optic neuritis and transverse myelitis.

      Signs and symptoms of optic neuritis include (ON):

      The optic nerve becomes inflamed

      Loss of eyesight, which affects at least one eye. In most cases this is temporary; however, there is a risk of permanent vision loss, which is exacerbated by heat or exercise.

      Swelling of the optic disc.

      Pain in the eye. The pain generally worsens with movement. Pain becomes more intense after about one week, and then goes away after a period of days.

      Patients who develop optic neuritis may have problems driving a vehicle.

      Signs and symptoms of transverse myelitis (TM):

      The spinal cord becomes inflamed

      Back pain

      Neck pain

      Shooting sensations in the limbs and abdomen

      Below the affected area of the spinal cord the patient may have altered sensations, with sensitivity to cold/heat, numbness, tingling, and a sensation of coldness or burning.

      Limbs may become weak. Some patients may describe their limbs as feeling heavy, while others may develop total paralysis.

      Urinary incontinence

      More frequent urination

      Difficulty urinating

      Fecal incontinence (bowel incontinence)

      Constipation

      Difficulty in completely emptying the bowels

      A patient with NMO may have just one mild attack of ON and one episode of TM, recover completely, or almost completely, and have no more relapses ever. Others may have several attacks throughout their life and experience lifelong disability.

      NMO spectrum disorder is a term used for patients who experience only relapsing optic neuritis or relapsing myelitis (but not both).

      In most cases, just the optic nerve and spinal cord of patients with NMO are affected. In very rare cases parts of the brain may also be affected. Patient’s whose brain stem has been affected may experience uncontrollable hiccups or vomiting.
      What are the causes of neuromyelitis optica?
      Experts are not sure what the exact causes of NMO are. We do know that the following factors are or aren’t implicated in the disease:

      It is not apparently, a strongly hereditary condition; it does not usually run in families.

      A higher percentage of people from Asia or Africa, as well as individuals of Asian or African ancestry develop NMO, compared to other people. This fact indicates that hereditary must play some part.

      In some rare cases, TB (tuberculosis) and some environmental organisms have been linked to the development of NMO. However, scientists have not been able to isolate specific organisms so far.

      NMO is an autoimmune disorder. Healthy people’s immune systems attack pathogens; organisms and substances that are bad for us, such as some bacteria, viruses, parasites, cancer cells and fungi. If the person’s immune system starts attacking good tissue, they have an autoimmune disease (disorder) – the immune system is attacking parts of the person’s body that are needed for good health. NMO is an example of an autoimmune disease. Experts are not sure why autoimmune diseases, such as NMO occur. The immune system of a patient with NMO attacks the myelin sheath, the protective blanket for the spinal cord and optic nerve.

      Scientists have revealed that over two-thirds of patients with NMO have an antibody called NMO IgG (Neuromyelitis Optica Immunoglobin G) in their blood. Scientists say that most likely NMO IgG damages Aquaporin 4, the water channel that surrounds optic nerve and spinal cord cells, resulting in NMO.

      How is neuromyelitis optica (NMO) diagnosed?
      NMO is not an easy condition to diagnose because it presents signs and symptoms which are often similar to those found in other diseases, such as:

      MS (multiple sclerosis)
      ADEM (acute demyelinating encephalomyelitis)
      SLE (systemic lupus erythematosis), also known as Sjogren’s syndrome
      MCTD (mixed connective tissue disorder)
      Some inflammations caused by viruses
      Paraneoplastic optic neuropathy (inflammation linked to cancer)

      The doctor will have to carry out some tests to rule out the above-mentioned conditions.

      Blood test – the aim here is to find out whether the antibody NMO IgG is present. A positive blood test result usually means that the patient risks having multiple attacks of transverse myelitis.

      Lumbar puncture test (spinal tap) – a small amount of fluid surrounding the brain and spinal cord is collected. Results will indicate whether levels of white blood cells are high, and also whether specific proteins linked to NMO or other conditions are present.

      MRI (magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scan – this scan can show up any damage to nerves and their surroundings (lesions). MRI scans of NMO patients hardly ever reveal any brain abnormalities, but will show up lesion consisting of three or more segments of the spinal cord. This type of spinal cord lesion makes it easier for the doctor to rule out multiple sclerosis…..”

      Gee, I don’t see any reference in the heavily redacted Vaccine Court decision that the patient underwent any blood tests to determine the presence of NMO IgG….do you?

      I don’t see any reference in the heavily redacted Vaccine Court decision that the patient underwent testing to see if her condition was caused by a viral or a bacterial illness, and no references about her undergoing MRI scans and LPs….do you?

      And finally, I don’t see anything in the article I provided that any vaccine, including the recombinant DNA hepatitis B vaccine she received, which does not contain the live virus or a live attenuated virus, has ever been implicated in the onset of this rare condition/disorder…do you?

      See also the patients comments beneath the article I provided, where no mention is made that any patient has a history of having received any vaccine recently, has been implicated in the onset of this rare condition/disorder.

      You’ve been quite busy, posting your nonsense for the past few days…is your M.S. in remission now, Parker?

      • ciaparker January 20, 2013 at 01:45 #

        There were two cases compensated in Vaccine Court mentioned in this article. One was the case of Devic’s disease caused by the hep-B vaccine which you mentioned, the other was in an adult woman who developed MS and died shortly after getting the vaccine.

        http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/02/vaccine-court-hepatitis-b-shot-causes-ms.html

      • ciaparker January 20, 2013 at 18:04 #

        You probably know (or maybe you don’t) that most people with MS have an exacerbating-remitting course, as do I. I am in remission, but even when we are in remission, we are not back to normal the way we were before MS. 70% of people with MS are completely unemployed, and almost all people with MS say that the fatigue is the most disabling symptom. I am wobbly, dizzy, and deeply fatigued all the time, and my severe insomnia is permanent, even in remission. The mercury screwing up the mitochondria would permanently impair the proper release of energy from nutrients, as it has in me. My mitochondria just aren’t cracking open the nutrients the way they are supposed to. In my attacks, some part of my body goes completely numb for several weeks or months, in one attack I was so extremely dizzy all the time that I threw up if I even turned my head a fraction of an inch. In one attack my left arm and leg were gradually completely paralyzed for over a month. I was tested for a stoke, even though I would have been very young for a stroke, because the neurologist thought it was so unusual that I become so paralyzed so fast. (Negative on the stroke, positive for MS lesions from another MRI). They thought it was likely I”d never walk again. I was sure, though, that I would, and I did. There was no numbness or dizziness in that attack, though, I don’t know why not. The residue of the paralyzing attack was that my left foot still drags when I walk. For a few years, the little finger and ring finger of my left hand wouldn’t type correctly, and would make a string of a’s when I only wanted to type one. But that finally went away, though they say effects still there a year after the attack will probably be permanent.
        It’s supposed to be a degenerative disease. I have a friend whose mother had MS, and, though she could still walk, went to her wedding in a wheelchair. I hope I don’t come to that, but actually a wheelchair sounds like it would be good a lot of the time. And I hope that my chelation will get the mercury out, and I may still recover.

      • Lara Lohne January 20, 2013 at 19:04 #

        Has the topic of this blog post changed or is ciaparker taking it over with her nonsense, self diagnostic data and making it her own personal ms biography? You are not educated in any scientific or medical disciplines ciaparker, therefore you really should refrain from offering your opinion as sound, medical advice and/or coherent theories, because they are not sound, not coherent.

      • ciaparker January 20, 2013 at 20:27 #

        Lil asked me, so I told her. I was not addressing you, so maybe you should keep your venom to yourself.

      • Lara Lohne January 20, 2013 at 21:11 #

        I’m not sure where the ‘venom’ is in my comment. What I said was true, you are not educated in science or medicine, and your opinions and theories are neither sound nor coherent. You are making severe stretches in logic to come up with them, and it needs to be pointed out, in case there are people reading that might mistake your ideas for fact, when they are as far from fact as fairy tales.

        And last time I checked, the topic of this post wasn’t you, or your ms. Your comments are way off topic so that also is a statement of fact. If you choose to see venom in that, you may suffer from a persecution complex. Not everything is about you, and in this case, it most definitely isn’t about you. What you are saying is just plain wrong, and if I didn’t say it, someone else would. Would you also consider that correction of data ‘venom’? Something tells me, unless it came from one, possibly two other sources, you would not consider it such. Therefore you for some reason take issue with facts and correction of wrong information from me personally. It is the misinformation that I am interested in correcting. The fact that it comes from you is irrelevant to me. But you feel free to take my corrections personally, it says a lot more about you even then the nonsense you are spouting here.

      • cia parker January 21, 2013 at 14:48 #

        you can’t even read, not worth my time

      • Lawrence January 20, 2013 at 19:23 #

        Time to ignore cia – she’s gone so far down the Rabbit Hole that I think she’ll well past Wonderland at this point.

      • novalox January 20, 2013 at 20:57 #

        @cia

        Pot, meet mirror.

  33. Science Mom January 19, 2013 at 22:42 #

    Judge Mitting also ruled that the claim that the MMR causes autism was completely unsupported.

    No Thomas he didn’t. Walker-Smith sure threw Wakefield under the bus by declaring his non-support for Wakefield’s claim that MMR did cause the children’s autism though.

    • Thomas January 19, 2013 at 22:47 #

      Mitting’s judgment states “There is now no respectable body of opinion which supports his hypothesis, that MMR vaccine and autism/enterocolitis are causally linked,” or am I missing something?

      • Lawrence January 19, 2013 at 23:06 #

        Thomas – that was entered as part of Mitting’s opinion, but it wasn’t the crux of the case that was being argued (hence it really didn’t apply – but certainly should have, darnit!!!!)

      • Thomas January 19, 2013 at 23:20 #

        Lawrence: Thanks.

  34. Science Mom January 20, 2013 at 00:58 #

    Sorry about that; I completely misread that as being opposite of what it did say.

    • Thomas January 20, 2013 at 01:07 #

      No problem.

  35. ciaparker January 20, 2013 at 01:55 #

    In the book that was the original topic of this thread, Your Baby’s Best Shot, one of the authors, Stacy Herlihy, writes that her two-month old baby daughter suffered a vaccine reaction four hours after receiving the first DTaP. She screamed inconsolably, a high-pitched scream (le cri encéphalique), for maybe twenty minutes, maybe an hour. The author presents the event on pp. 2-3 as an adverse side effect of the vaccine, even though she didn’t have a doctor’ examine her during the reaction. The child was not damaged by it. Sears says that in children that don’t scream for very long, there are usually no permanent consequences, but in those that scream for days there may be permanent brain damage. It seems strange to me that you’re willing to accept that screaming for a short time within a short time of a vaccine is a vaccine reaction, but that screaming for many days is no longer a vaccine reaction, and any permanent damage that appears could not possibly have been related to encephalitis, for which long-lasting, inconsolable screaming is the major symptom. I guess you’re aware that she says on p. 71 that prolonged crying fits can be treated with aspirin and don’t need a doctor to be seen for it.

    • lilady January 20, 2013 at 03:23 #

      You are a pathetic excuse for a human being Parker. You keep trotting out that same *story* about your child’s “vaccine-induced encephalitis* and now you are touting the author of a vaccine book who knows nothing, zero, nada, zilch about immunology, virology, bacteriology or pediatric neurology, to back up your lies about the etiology of your child’s autism.

      Do you also tell your autistic child that she is “damaged goods”…”damaged by vaccines”?

      You’ve repeated smeared and libeled Dr. Paul Offit due to your fixations on vaccines being the cause of your child’s autism and the cause of your Multiple Sclerosis.

      Time for you to give it up now Parker. You’re making a fool of yourself.

      • cia parker January 20, 2013 at 15:47 #

        Right back atya, Lil. We’ll see how you feel about your performance on this issue ten years from now.

      • ciaparker January 20, 2013 at 20:58 #

        Are your questions rhetorical? I’ve told my daughter she has autism, and that she won’t have a very good life if she can’t overcome it. It was very sad when I told her two years ago, she said she’d try, and the next day asked if she had overcome her autism. I told her it would take a lot of time and a lot of hard work, but she needed to try hard from her end.

        I’ve told her she was damaged by vaccines, and told her to never let anyone give her another vaccine, even when I”m gone. Her doctor wrote down every word I told her about her vaccine reactions, was very respectful, and did not deny that it had happened. Her case manager also wrote it down, and was very respectful. I told him I wanted it to be on record if I die before she is independent. He said a lot of the parents of his autistic clients had said that vaccines were responsible for their autism. He was impressed by all the things I told him I was doing to try to help her: he wrote down the list of ten supplements I give her every day, taken from Dr. Sears’ Autism Book. Another year, and we’ll gradually go off off them. Most of them have a specific function to heal the gut or the brain, but after three years, he thinks they will have done what they were able to do. The coconut yogurt that she eats an hour after supper, so it doesn’t get killed by the expensive digestive enzymes she takes before every meal. The goat yogurt she alternates with coconut, that I make myself with non-dairy yogurt starter recommended on pecanbread.com, letting it ferment 24 hours to predigest the casein and gluten (from the SCD diet).

        The work we do in home schoolling three days a week. I’m making her create new neural pathways in her brain by memorization and recall. I am very tired of this, but I can’t give up yet. He said he is cautiously optimistic, that he’s also a big believer in supplements, and that her improving on standardized yearly tests at school is cause for hope. He said most autistic kids her age get worse on the tests and schoolwork in general, but she is getting better. He said a lot depends on how much further she can develop in the next five years, and I told her that, that we have to double up on conversation and practice in basic English constructions, double up on everything really. I give her piano lessons four days a week, after almost four years she’s over halfway done with the John Thompson First Grade Book (but that means she’s playing a simple minuet by Mozart now). More good neural circuits in her brain being formed. I give her swimming lessons in the summer, this summer will be the last ten of seventy lessons (ten a summer). Everything takes a lot longer than it would with neurotypical children, but eventually she learns. She’s at girl scouts now. Still needs more work before she stops saying “What’s your name?” when she sees girls she’s known for six years. She’s gotten to where she will readily say What did you do today? and even in the present perfect, What have you done this weekend? but she can’t say much more than that, or tell what she did or has done. The language side of her brain was severely damaged by the encephalitis, but the math side was left intact, and we’re doing algebra now in our homeschooling.

        I have given you a serious answer to your question. It would be nice if you gave me an equally serious, respectful reply, but I don’t expect it.

      • Lara Lohne January 20, 2013 at 21:25 #

        Autistic children, who grow up believing there is something wrong with them (with or without childhood diagnosis) try too hard to overcome their neurology to be ‘normal’ and end up over stressing themselves, pushing themselves too hard, and develop co-morbid mental disorders such as bi-polar disorder, anxiety, depression, agoraphobia and dissociative identity disorder, among others. This can also happen in neurotypical children who are raised to believe they are not good enough, and will break themselves physically, mentally and emotionally to get their parents approval, love and acceptance for just being who they are.

        As a neurotypical raised by abusive parents, I can attest to this. Being the partner of non-neurotypical adult, who is as of yet undiagnosed yet shows classic characteristics of autism, gives me another position of which to attest to this. The stress of being out, talking to people, dealing with sensory stuff, all his life, has caused my partner to suffer from regressive episodes which cause him to lose skills and functionality, sometimes for months at a time. Having a diagnosis will help, because it will open doors to accommodations that are currently not open to him, and perhaps will give him permission to ease up on himself and to stop trying so hard to be normal.

        I sincerely fear for your daughter ciaparker, I honestly do. Because I have seen the result of an adult that grows up not neurotypical, but attempting to be. Not only in my partner, but in other adults who have ASDs also, and share similar co-morbid conditions with my partner. You are not helping your daughter, you are hurting her. Every day you are telling her she is not good enough being who she is, but you want her to be someone she is not. How has that thinking ever helped any child?

      • novalox January 20, 2013 at 21:36 #

        cia and a serious, well, thought-out answer. Two diametrically opposed things, never to meet, ever.

    • Lawrence January 20, 2013 at 12:27 #

      @cia – what are Dr. Sears’ actual qualifications and where are the published, peer review research studies that support his “opinions?”

      • cia parker January 20, 2013 at 16:06 #

        Law,
        You have to do some of the work yourself. Dave is not your Google, and I am not your book reader. If you read his books, you’ll find out what p, prrs support his opinions. He also points out and marks a lot of studies which support your side as pharma-funded. I have read books from your side, why don’t you read at least the landmark books from our side? It would make you a better professional commenter.

      • lilady January 20, 2013 at 16:08 #

        @ Lawrence: Here’s a review of Dr. Sears book and his “alternate vaccine schedule”…straight from the foremost expert on vaccines, the scheduling of vaccines and the serious, sometimes deadly, diseases those vaccines prevent:

        http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/123/1/e164.full.pdf

        Sears’ also tells parents to “hide in the herd”, so that parents of other children are unaware that Sears’ patients have not been vaccinated. Selfish parents who follow Sears’ alternate schedule and those who never immunize their children are “free riders”, depending on the herd immunity provided by children whose parents do have them fully immunized and following the scheduling of childhood vaccines recommended by the WHO, the CDC and the AAP.

      • ciaparker January 20, 2013 at 17:20 #

        Lil,
        People read the original books. Sheepies read only biased reviews. Which one are you, Law?

      • novalox January 20, 2013 at 19:59 #

        @cia

        Another ad hominem from you, how typical of someone so deranged by anti-vax views that they cannot be reasoned with.

        So, why should we believe you?

        BTW, I read your “books”, and they are so full of pseudoscience and not based on fact, so your position holds no water.

        But please keep posting, in order to show the world how out of touch with reality you are.

      • Lawrence January 20, 2013 at 22:12 #

        @cia – I read actual research, both from the US & Internationally – from experts that work for the government regulatory bodies, independent educational institutions, research organizations, etc.

        None of them have found the evidence of what you claim – so at the end of the day, you’re blaming vaccines for something that doesn’t have a plausible biological mechanism. You’ve also told your daughter that she is “damaged” – what kind of monster are you?

      • futuredave5 January 21, 2013 at 02:08 #

        Lawrence: Have there been any actual studies about what to tell kids about their autism? I have often wondered if we should tell my son he is autistic. We have never kept it a secret, but we have never explained it either. He is getting close to the age where he is starting to figure out how different he is from other children.

        I have often wondered about the impact of certain words. My son does not pick up nuance, so I doubt he would distinguish between “damaged”, and a variety of other words, like “injured.”

        To me, being “damaged” might be better than letting a child think they are a bad person. “Damaged” is not something you have control over. But that is a nuance, of course.

      • Lara Lohne January 21, 2013 at 04:12 #

        futuredave5, except that autism is not damage or injury therefore neither of those terms is appropriate to use, nor to say to a child. How many times has a bully referred to another person as ‘damaged goods’ and it is meant to be an insult? I’ve been called damaged before, I’ve been called the R word, I’ve been called a lot of really nasty things, even though I am NT, I didn’t understand why I was called these things, why people thought these things about me, and it definitely hurt. And don’t be so sure that your son doesn’t understand. Autistic people can understand more then we may ever know, they just understand differently, and just because your son doesn’t ‘appear’ hurt when something hurtful might be said to him, doesn’t mean he isn’t hurt on the inside and just unable to properly or appropriately tell you or show it. Inability to express himself, isn’t the same as not feeling, there in lies the entire misconception that many people had regarding autistic individuals and that popped up in discussions frequently after the Sandy Hook tragedy last month.

        When speaking to children about their diagnosis, damage and injury isn’t part of it, shouldn’t be part of it, you are giving them a built in reason to fail and essentially, by telling them that, giving the idea credence and letting them know you believe it, and don’t believe in them. You think autistics can’t pick these things up? Ask an autistic adult, they can tell you. They have heard it all already and know how painful and hurtful and devastating these words can be to someone with their neurology from someone they care about and who supposedly cares about them. They are different, but not less. That needs to be understood by us as NTs, they already get it. Until that can be understood, your son is in danger of never being able to reach his full potential, and autistics have amazing potential, if they are given the supports and assistance they need and if people believe in them.

      • Chris January 20, 2013 at 22:18 #

        I looked at Sears’ book at a bookstore, it was full of nonsense.

        I also read this appropriately titled review: Cashing In On Fear: The Danger of Dr. Sears.

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 16:30 #

        Should we then take the concept “damaged” out of our conceptual framework when thinking, talking, or writing about structural harm caused by an external factor resulting in impaired functioning? We won’t even worry about strokes or encephalitis any more, why should we? They don’t actually damage the brain, because it might make the victim feel bad to hear that he can’t think or speak as well as he used to. He is certainly incapable of coming to that realization on his own.

  36. lilady January 20, 2013 at 22:39 #

    Parker, you are really down the rabbit hole. Seriously, get some help for yourself. I am astonished and aghast that you told your daughter that she is “vaccine damaged”….that is emotional abuse.

  37. lilady January 21, 2013 at 15:56 #

    @futuredave 5: This thread has been going on (and on) for the past six months, covering such provocative topics that you brought up, as Dr. Offit’s honesty and supposed conflicts of interest.

    Now you are asking a random stranger on the internet (Lawrence) his opinion about telling your child he is “injured” or “damaged”.

    Is this some sort of game you are playing here? If so, why don’t you share with us the rules of the game?

    – Who gets to play?

    – How are “points” awarded? I’m thinking that the one who makes the most outrageous statement about their child gets “extra points”…am I correct?

    I think you would get many more participants willing to “play your game”, if you took yourself over to an anti-vaccine blog, where the posters refer to their autistic children as “injured” or “damaged”.

    -

    • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 16:18 #

      Dave,
      I read some of your earlier comments to learn more about your situation. You said that although there is a three times higher risk of autism among those who get the hep-B vax at birth, it would be a lot higher if there were a direct causal link. I think, though, that many people have genes that predispose them (us) to reacting negatively to vaccines. Everyone in my family, for example, has reacted extremely negatively to some vaccines. Most people who get them aren’t affected in the extremely damaging way we are (at least it’s not immediately apparent). Many books say that those who have a family history of autoimmune disease etc. have a higher chance of reacting adversely themselves, and the reason would obviously be genetic. But I think everyone has a threshhold beyond which they will react.

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 16:21 #

        Dave,

        If a child is able to understand what the concept of damaged means, I think you need to tell him. But it’s also important to tell him ways in which he can work to overcome the damage. Of course it’s very hard in the case of autism, but if he is able to understand on any level the problem, then he will understand and cooperate in working to improve the areas of problems. Since he sees typical people all around him, talking, working and playing together, and cooperating in apparently incomprehensible ways, and sees their markedly different attitude when they interact with him, you’re right, if he isn’t told the problem and given some tools to work with, then he will internalize the concept that he is hopelessly damaged goods, and that would be a tragedy. I don’t think you should wait for the results of studies, since you have asked the question in the way that you have, you already know the answer.

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 16:24 #

        Dave,
        Lil is right about one thing, you would be treated with more kindness and concern at Age of Autism.com, Thinkingmomsrevolution.com, or one of the forums associated with recoveringcaroline.com I know I have been.

    • futuredave5 January 21, 2013 at 17:43 #

      Lilady: I didn’t mean to attack Lawrence. In fact, I don’t think I did: I was asking a question. I am worried about what words to use to describe autism to my son. I agree that the word “damaged” has connotations that imply he been broken by external forces. I am not sure this is the right word to use, because I want to give my son control over his own life.

      Anything that implies external forces seems like it discounts the degree of control he has over his own life.

      I am sorry if it sounded like I was setting up some sort of game. I am trying to change my conversational tone so that it sounds like I am asking for information, rather than setting up a battle.

      In actual fact, I usually am seeking information. I tend to play devil’s advocate a bit when people send me responses that are based on buzzwords. If people question my motives and my honesty, then I tend to downgrade the value that I assign to their opinion.

      This is not a hard-and-fast rule, of course. Some of the smartest people I have ever met are obnoxious. I really need to learn from them in spite of their poor manners.

      if I have said or done anything to deserve your sarcastic non-response, then I apologize. It really was not my intent to take over this blog to advance my own opinions, nor to insult anyone, unless they insult me first.

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 17:55 #

        Dave,
        ciaparker2 and I’m at gmail.com
        I can direct you to the helpful information you’re looking for.

      • Lara Lohne January 21, 2013 at 18:32 #

        Sullivan, I love reading your posts, and I will continue to do so, but I don’t feel I can actively participate in the discussions any longer. It sincerely pains me that this pseudoscience and potentially damaging misinformation is being shared in the manner that it is. I know you, like many science based blogs have a fairly lenient comments policy, but when a commenter takes over the thread with nonsense, I feel some form of censor might be in order. Perhaps a limit to the number of comments that can be posted in a day, if that is even a possibility? I don’t know, but it sickens me to read this junk and see that there are people who are swallowing it.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 21, 2013 at 19:02 #

        CIA has been placed in the moderation queue as of today, just before you posted your comment.

        I frankly think she’s run out of steam. It’s easy to dip into the well of years of bad science and post a lot, but there’s nothing new in there. And I think the well went dry and she got into repetition a while back.

        I do believe in the approach that a few good comments are better than a lot of bad comments. My guess is that there are only a couple people reading this discussion any more.

      • Lawrence January 21, 2013 at 18:50 #

        @dave – I didn’t think it was an “attack” either and it is an excellent question. I have good friends and associates that are autism counselors / therapists, who work directly with children – at the earliest possible age, to get good interventions and behavioral therapies in place to help mitigate some of the challenges faced by their patients.

        So, I posed the question to them – and in no uncertain terms, all of them came back and said that using terms like “disabled, damaged, etc” does the utmost disservice to the child & can cause lasting harm to their mental condition.

        Because children in general can become fixated on certainly specific definitions of words, saying your child is “damaged” can create an impression that only digs a deeper hole for the child.

        The recommendation from my friends was not to fixate on the negative aspects – but instead let them know they are different, but that different isn’t bad (plenty of examples out there you can use), it can certainly help.

      • futuredave5 January 21, 2013 at 21:26 #

        Lawrence, I appreciate the response. I think that is the approach we are going to use: We are going to tell him that he is different from most other people, and that he will find some things harder and some things easier.

        Obviously, I want to tell him the truth, and I have not yet figured out everything to say. His ability to do math seems to be about right for a five-year-old, maybe even above average. The other day we were playing a video game together, and he had pushed himself beyond his normal bed time. I told him he would go to bed when the clock said “8:50″, and he looked up at the clock. After a while, he said: “Six more minutes.” He was correct.

        I was really proud of him for figuring that out, but I was careful not to say: “Wow, you are really smart.” We try to compliment for things that he does, rather than for things he is, since he has no control over whether he is smart.

        Right now, there is no way to determine which, if any, of his behaviors were caused by what. If he asks me why he is unable to sit still in class, I will most likely tell him that “no one knows why sitting still is so hard for you.”

        I wish we knew, though. I wish we could say: “Oh, that is because you have a repeated sequence in chromosome 7p and 15q. It changes the way your parietal cortex works, and makes it harder for you to sit still.” (I just made that up, by the way, if it turns out to be true, you heard it here first.)

        Even that would be an oversimplification, but that sounds better than saying: “I think it is because I was exposed to a bunch of dioxins before you were born.” (or vaccines, or whatever). He does not have control over either one, but the random obstacle seems like a more productive conversation than blame-placing.

        In my opinion, there is still a great deal more to learn about autism. Some of it may be discovered by epidemiological research, but I doubt it. I suspect the next few things we learn about autism will be from detailed analysis of individuals, rather than statistical analysis of big groups.

        Sorry if this turned into asking for advice rather than sticking to the original topic, but I am home sick with the flu today, and these are not the sort of conversations that I would post to Facebook.

  38. ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 16:44 #

    I just saw Sullivan’s email about not having censored my posts the other day, that it was the spam trap. I won’t take advantage of your hospitality much longer, but I thought I would answer Lil’s frequently repeated query about why I think my daughter had an encephalitic vaccine reaction, in smaller pieces.

    All vaccines can cause encephalitis. From the Merck Manual, the leading medical textbook, published by the vaccine manufacturer (am I the only one who finds this ironic?):
    “Encephalitis can occur in the following ways: A virus directly infects the brain…A virus or vaccine triggers a reaction that makes the immune system attack brain tissue (an autoimmune reaction). From The Merck Manual, Online Medical Library, “Encephalitis,” http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec06/ch089/ch089.html

    • Lawrence January 21, 2013 at 16:50 #

      @Cia – yes, please leave & stop spamming with your nonsense.

      Also, there are vaccines out there that have no recorded “serious reactions” – I can point to HepA, for example – which has shown ZERO serious reactions in its long history of use.

      • Lawrence January 21, 2013 at 16:53 #

        @cia – which vaccines are injected directly into the bloodstream again? Also, what possible fault could have with the rabies vaccine? What is your “alternative” treatment recommendation?

    • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 16:51 #

      From a great book which you should read, Dave, Vaccine Epidemic, pp. 198-9, article by Annemarie Colbin:
      “According to medical historian Harris Coulter, Ph.D., the occurrence of encephalitis, or brain inflammation, after vaccination is much more common than we think. Different vaccines (i.e., measles, polio, and rabies) have been shown upon autopsy to produce both myelin destruction and encephalitis. .. Autopsies show that as a result of post-vaccination encephalitis, there are “many small yellowish-red lesions in the white mater of the cerebrum, cerebellum, brain stem, and spinal cord,” indicating destruction of t he myelin sheath.”
      Encephalitis, among other causes, may come from an allergic reaction to foreign protein. Vaccines may provide some of these damaging proteins, because they contain traces of monkey kidney cells and chick embryo cell cultures, as well as casein, or milk protein (thence the need for the GFCF diet later). The presence of these foreign proteins injected in the blood may sensitize the child to develop allergic reactions that may later manifest as allergies.

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 16:54 #

        “How would the foreign proteins get into the brain? The body protects the brain very carefully from unregulated fluctuations of elements in the blood (such as hormones, amino acids, mineral ions, and others) with the blood-brain barrier. Endothelial cells inside the capillaries that bring blood to the brain establish this barrier. The cells are so tightly packed that only certain necessary nutrients, such as glucose, are able to pass through the capillary walls into the brain. Experiments have shown that a strong solution of sugar in the blood loosens the tightly packed endothelial cells and thereby increasaes the permeability of the blood-brain barrier. Interestingly, once the sugar concentration disappears, the barrier returns to normal. (studies cited here)

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 17:04 #

        Lawrence,

        The Merck Manual said that encephalitis can be caused by a virus directly infecting the brain. Vaccines are different enough from the natural diseases, with lots of ingredients besides the weakened or killed pathogen, that I don’t think it’s surprising that vaccine-induced encephalitis often have different effects from that caused by the natural diseases. Most vaccines are injected into the muscle, but there are thousands of blood capillaries in every square millimeter of muscle tissue, and the vaccines are quickly absorbed into the bloodstream at large, or they would have no effect.

        It doesn’t really matter whether or not there are alternative treatments for rabies (there is homeopathic lyssin, and others, but I know you’re not interested in them, nor can I vouch for their efficacy.) It’s the risk/benefit thing again. The rabies vaccine could well cause encephalitis etc. in the recipient (especially if it were me or my daughter), it’s a dangerous vaccine, but of course, if you”ve been bitten by a rabid animal, your options for survival are very limited and even I would take the vaccine in that instance.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 21, 2013 at 19:24 #

        Here is a great example of why I don’t use letters after my name nor do I refer to non-practitioners as “Dr.”

        His books include “Vaccination, Social Violence, and Criminality: The Medical Assault on the American Brain”. Don’t have to crack that one to get an idea what he thinks.

        and ” Homeopathic Science and Modern Medicine: The Physics of Healing With Microdoses “. There is no physics in homeopathy.

        But, add “PhD” to his name and make him sound like an authority?

      • Chris January 21, 2013 at 19:43 #

        Harris Coulter’s PhD is in Russian political science. His day job as a Russian translator. He is just as medically qualified as Viera Scheibner whose PhD was in geology.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 21, 2013 at 20:24 #

        I believe he passed away, so this should be in the past tense.

      • Chris January 21, 2013 at 20:51 #

        I know, it is just me using bad grammar. :-p

    • Lawrence January 21, 2013 at 16:52 #

      @cia – you do realize, that if what you say is true, we would have seen the exact same reactions in people when they caught the actual diseases, right – in fact, even more so, since the diseases contain many more antigens than the vaccines themselves?

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 17:18 #

        You’ve sidetracked me, I have one more thing to say about encephalitis. But first, the hep-A vaccine Vaqta has human MRC-5 diploid fibroblasts originally from aborted human fetal tissue (just saying), 450 mcg aluminum in adult dose, bovine albumim (cow blood, foreign protein), and formaldehyde. Havrix also has the diploid cells, 500 mcg aluminum in adult dose, residual MRC-5 cellular proteins, neomycin, and formaldehyde. Twinrix is for both hep A and B. In other words, lots of potentially allergenic material, as well as neurotoxic aluminum. The PI lists a number of serious adverse reactions reported after the vaccine was given: Guillain-Barré syndrome, thrombocytopenia, cerebellar ataxia, encephalitis, anaphylacis, brachial plexus neuropathy, transverse myelitis, lymphadenopathy, meningitis, hepatitis, diabetes, and MS. (and several less severe reactions are listed). There was an increase in cases in children under 5 after the vaccine started to be given to children in that age group: a 26% increase, 231 cases in 2003 vs. 291 cases in 2004 (CDC. MMWR: Summary of Notifiable Disease – U.S., 2003 (April 22, 2005); 52 (54); 2004 (June 16, 2006); 53(53).

        Hep-A is very rarely dangerous in children, and usually not dangerous in adults either, I had it after visiting a Navajo reservation with my father (after reading about places where it was common, I deduced that as a possible source of contagion, I don’t know for sure). It wasn’t severe, it made my eyes yellow and made me fatigued, that was before I had MS, but I was still able to entertain an Italian friend who visited.

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 17:30 #

        I’m not sure what happened to what I just entered, but it’s the most important part: “High-pitched crying, inconsolable screaming, head-bangin, rocking, seizures, convulsions, and staring episodes (which may be absence seizures) are all indications of brain inflammation. The aftermath of brain inflammation may include speech, hearing, and vision difficulties; hyperactivity; retardation; learning disabilitis; dyslexia; antisocial behavior; personality disorders; and ‘flat affect,’ or the inability to respond to emotion.” (still p. 199)

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 17:37 #

        From Dr. Sears, The Vaccine Book p. 181, under “Serious Side Effects of Vaccines,” “Encephalitis/encephalopathy. describes the high-pitched or prolonged screaming as indicating encephalitis. P. 339: in his Autism Book: “What we don’t yet know is why such rare reactions occur in a few children, but not the rest. We also don’t kow exactly how common these severe reactions are, because no large research study has ever been undertaken to document the rate of severe reactions. And most important, no one has yet compared the rate of autism in a large vaccinated group of children with the rate in an unvaccinated group.”

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 17:41 #

        Dave,
        About my daughter’s history at school: The people at the public school who first tested her, including an IQ test when she was five, said she had an IQ of 64. I protested in horror that that was not accurate, that she understood very little language, and could not use it herself. They said it was accurate, and not all of the test was verbal. I have worked with her intensively since she was four, and they said the last time they gave her an IQ test maybe three years ago, that it had gone up to about 95, 105 in some areas. Her auditory processing test, though, was close to zero. On the MAP test last spring, given to all fifth graders in the state, she scored one point above average for all fifth graders in math, only ten points below average on language arts, twenty below average on science, but that was out of a total of 800 points. In other words, she’s testing in the average range in all three areas tested, albeit a little below the midpoint average for the whole group. But from mentally retarded to a C range is all right with me, and we’re continuing to work almost every day. I’m sure she’ll do even better this coming April

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 17:43 #

        Dave,
        I’m sorry, I’m trying to do this fast, I have to go, but I wanted to give you this info. I used the DK math workbooks K-5 for her. We’ve always used the Waldorf Oak Meadow homeschooling materials, though I really can’t recommend them. We’ve used their math textbooks from fifth grade on, and are now in the eighth grade book, which includes a lot of pre-algebra. Though in my book, 69 + 3/4 m = 634 – 83, is just plain algebra. I”ve ordered the Saxon algebra 1 homeschooling package for next year. We’ve used the workbooks for Learning Language Arts through Literature from the first grade on, they’re all right, not great, but I certainly wouldn’t have had such extensive grammar exercises to do with my daughter without them. We’ve used the Core Curriculum books (What Your First-Grader Needs to Know, etc.) from kindergarten on. I realized three and a half years ago, that everything I said was going in one ear and out the other, so I started with the kindergarten book and typed out question and answer pages for all the material, and started to work making her learn the answers to all the questions. (That’s the memorization and recall I referred to yesterday). I have to think of lots of mnemonic devices to help her learn, but they really help. We’re up to the fourth grade book now, the American Revolution is one of the subjects. The case manager two weeks ago said that he guaranteed me that no one in public school was ever going to attempt to make her learn basic facts about the Revolution. He caught on right away when I said I thought what I was doing fulfilled two purposes, it both taught her the basic facts that all educated people know, necessary for participating in the world, and…(he finished the sentence) it makes new, useful neural circuits in her brain, by dint of much repetition. The other day I asked her what Patrick Henry had said, and she hestitated, so I went into my histrionic performance of the last passage of his famous speech, which I memorized when I was young. (Gentlemen cry peace, peace…) and she then finished it at my pause, saying Give me liberty or give me death! She couldn’t remember the name of the famous patriot hanged by the Redcoats, so I told her to think of them catching him when his horse neighed, his sister Ann was with him, and it was hailing when they hanged him. We’ll see today if she remembers when I ask her about Nathan Hale.
        We’ve also been using Linda Mood Bell materials for the last two years, Visualizing and Verbalizing reading comprehension workbooks. She’s getting better, though still not very good.

      • ciaparker January 21, 2013 at 17:45 #

        This is the last of what I wanted to tell Dave:
        I don’t know anything about your son, his age, or level of performance. I would be interested if you could tell me. Even though my daughter is so old, we’re watching some Jenny McCarthy videos that I just got. They’re for younger children, but Heaven knows she can’t even say what the children in the video last night were saying, What animals did you see at the zoo? and What was your favorite? I’m going to write down everything they say in the videos, and use them to drill my daughter, until she can quickly and accurately say everything. You might also look at regardingcaroline.com for info on how that mom is working on recovering her autistic daughter.

        My daughter can’t follow stories at all, and so is not interested in books or videos with stories. I would be interested if you or anyone else could tell me what might help.

  39. lilady January 21, 2013 at 19:44 #

    @futuredave5: I’m still left wondering why you are asking Lawrence about the use of the word “damaged” or “injured” when you are discussing your child or conversing with your child?

    “I have often wondered about the impact of certain words. My son does not pick up nuance, so I doubt he would distinguish between “damaged”, and a variety of other words, like “injured.”

    To me, being “damaged” might be better than letting a child think they are a bad person. “Damaged” is not something you have control over. But that is a nuance, of course.”

    You’ve been posting at LB/RB for a very long time and you should realize by now, those words are pejorative and vile when referring to, or conversing with, an autistic child or adult. They are also the typical words used by the odious Parker and the posters on every anti-vaccine blog.

    There are a slew of websites where parents of children who have ASDs share strategies for explaining to their children about their ASDs.

    @ Matt Carey: I do hope you will consider putting the odious thread-derailing, comment spamming Parker in “moderation purdah” or outright banning her. She and her sock puppets have been banned from other websites for these behaviors.

    • futuredave5 January 21, 2013 at 22:01 #

      Lilady: Sorry if I encroached on a different discussion, I don’t read much from the other blogs. When I do, I don’t pay much close attention to what their buzzwords are. I asked Lawrence because he seemed to have a strong opinion about certain words, and it seemed like a good time to figure out why.

      It does make sense that “damaged” is a code word for “vaccine-damaged”, when you think about it, I just never thought about it.

      I suppose I could go to other sites and ask the same question, or look it up myself. I only brought it up here because people seemed to have an immediate and extreme reaction, and I wasn’t sure what warranted that kind of response.

      i doubt I would have used the word “damaged” anyway, because it is just not the sort of thing I usually say. Many (many) years ago, I had a family member who was “damaged” by a medical procedure that was supposed to help him. Other than him, it is not a word I ever used to refer to people. It certainly isn’t a word I would use as an insult.

      • lilady January 21, 2013 at 23:43 #

        Thank you for clarifying your position futuredave5.

        As the parent of a profoundly/multiply disabled child who was born with a rare genetic syndrome who displayed “autistic-like” behaviors, not autism…and as an advocate for kids and adults diagnosed with developmental disabilities for ~ 36 years, I am quite “sensitive” about “labeling” i.e. “damaged” or “injured”.

        May I make a suggest, Dave? In addition to your advocacy on behalf of your son, you should find like-minded parents who are actively involved in advancing research into the causes of autism, effective treatments that are evidence-based such as ABA, speech/language therapies, as well as medical insurance coverage for those expensive treatments.

        You could also get involved in your child’s school PTA group…and offer to do a presentation for that PTA group (from a parent’s perspective), about the challenges you and your son face to enable him to reach his maximum potential as a child diagnosed with an ASD.

        Heck Dave, a lot of the ground-work has been done for you. Another generation of parents worked tirelessly to have Congress pass PL 94-182:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_for_All_Handicapped_Children_Act

        My generation of parents fought for deinstitutionalization of kids and adults from the human warehouses where kids and adults were dumped, where young children were deliberately infected with the hepatitis B virus and where inhumane treatment was provided:

        http://www.asylumprojects.org/index.php?title=Willowbrook_State_School

  40. Eliza January 21, 2013 at 23:46 #

    Lara,
    Would that be the partner you’ve said elsewhere always has bad reactions to the flu vaccine?

    • lilady January 22, 2013 at 00:18 #

      How about staying on topic Eliza?

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 22, 2013 at 01:34 #

        Or staying with a single name…This was CIA.

        I guess she really wants to bait you. Time for her to move on.

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 22, 2013 at 01:33 #

      CIA,

      I guess being put in the moderation queue bothers you to the point of creating “Eliza”?

      • lilady January 22, 2013 at 01:43 #

        I warned you about the odious Parker and her sock puppetry Matt. :-)

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) January 22, 2013 at 04:05 #

        the thing about the moderation queue is it just means I have to approve comments. It isn’t banning. Just means I need to read things (which, I admit, I haven’t been).

        People who create sock puppets are not likely to entice me to read their comments, which is the first step in getting them approved.

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