In what is becoming a very uneasy chain of events, yet another disabled child, WIlliam H Lash IV, has died at the hands of a parent:
A former Bush administration official, after arguing violently with his wife Thursday night, shot and killed his 12-year-old son inside their McLean home, then turned a shotgun on himself and committed suicide, Fairfax County police said.
This follows the murder of Ryan Davies (aged 12) at the hands of his mum, Alison Davies in April this year, the murder of Katie McCarron in May, the attempted (thankfully unsuccessful) murder of Lexus Fuller, the murder of Christopher Degroot in May this year and countless others over time.
Every time the mind attempts to adjust to the shocking reality of another murder it seems like another one emerges.
Friends and neighbors described Lash as devoted to his only child, William H. Lash IV, who was autistic.
Sounds familiar, right? Exactly the same sentiments expressed as those expressed by friends of all the above victim’s parents. Devoted. Selfless.
He loved his son so much. He really loved his son . . . and he did everything for him
This is such a difficult thing to comprehend. Can it _truly_ be that there are levels of love where murdering the target of that love is acceptable? And that that love can be used as an excuse or a vindication? Why do we always hear more about the killer than the victim? To be brutally frank, William H Lash III is a murdering scumbag. I don’t care about his CV. Why can’t we hear about his child?
Yet again, we come around to ‘that video‘. That video where a mum talks about killing her disabled child whilst that child is in the room with her, taking it all in. As Mike McCarron, Katie’s grandad says:
I found the film offensive, an exercise in narcissism. It paints the picture that at least one of these children would be better off dead. I deeply resent that
Incredible as it may seem, Autism Diva found a comment in reaction to the petition I set up stating:
Wow, I actually think this is disrespectful to the makers of the movie.
What can one _say_ in response to such arrant ego? We’re talking about a film that attempts to put a face on acceptable murder of children. An attitude about which the film’s Producer says:
If most mothers of autistic children…..look hard enough within themselves they will find that they have played out a similar scenario in their minds.
And here’s someone who thinks the petition is disrespectful. I guess what that mother was talking about in front of her autistic child wasn’t disrespectful at all. Amazing.
People have tried to make ‘the best’ out of these situations and try and highlight the lack of services or the struggles parents face. These things are both true. It is a struggle parenting a disabled child. Its damned hard. There is an appalling lack of service in a wide range of areas. However, we cannot and should not (in my opinion) use the murders of children to highlight these points. This detracts from the horrifying reality of what was done to these children and also serves as a backhanded excuse to their murdering parents – they never would’ve done it if there were more services. That can never ever be used as an explanation for a murderous act. That’s the ‘take home’ message from ‘Autism Every Day’ and I reject it utterly.
Please remember William. A twelve year old boy first and foremost. I have a fourteen year old son and much as he hates it, I’ll be giving him a big hug. He’ll be going fishing soon. In a week he breaks up for summer and he’ll be off with his mates, playing footy, bike riding, fishing. William won’t. We have to find a way of utterly rejecting the idea of murdering disabled children as in any way acceptable, understandable or an act of compassion. It’s not.
Left Brain Right Brain 
I really wonder how many of the parents on this site feed their child Ritalin, and claim we are the ones doing things science has yet to prove.
My son’s neurologist recommended Ritalin. I was adamant in my refusal. My wife was sort of willing to go with it and even my son’s speech therapist encouraged it. There are serious questions about the safety of Ritalin and I’m not willing to risk my child’s cardiovascular health, etc.
Jamie used to have seizures.
And you wonder what the cause of regression was? Please look up “EEG autism regression” or “autism epileptiform regression” in PubMed. This is something you should’ve discussed with Jamie’s neurologist — maybe you did.
After biomed, they stopped. No seizure drugs needed.
What did you use, if you don’t mind? The Ketogenic diet is probably considered biomed and it’s known to work. Beyond that, I’m not aware of any other biomed treatment that is proven.
If you use brain drugs on your autistic child that it is my opinion that you are a profound hypocrite if you also call yourself an ND
First of all, no one is calling themselves “ND” that designation is almost as ridiculous as the rest of the things you say. If your brain is different from mine, and thank god it its, YOU are neuro-diverse.
Brain drugs? Is that the technical term? If you suck on a piece of hard candy it alters brain chemistry.
All of the wacky quacky supplements you put into your kid are meant to alter brain chemistry. Just because they don’t do anything for autism doesn’t mean you aren’t trying to use them as “brain drugs”
If they worked we would just call them psych-meds and you would have to refuse them on the grounds that they were tested and developed by pharmaceutical companies.
Now that I think of it, how do you feel about the Geiers and their Lupron protocol? Do you still have their crap publications up on the GR website? How about Buttar? Still your savior or did he just rip you off?
Unless you are a hypocrite you should be honest about your experiences with guys like Buttar and any other quacks you’ve praised in the past.
Also Brad, if you believe thimerosal causes seizures and thimerosal is also what caused the “autism epidemic”, then you must believe there has been an epidemic of epilepsy as well. Yes or no?
century : 7 hours, 43 minutes ago
Joseph said
“A couple of surveys in the U.K. at the end of the 1990s indicated that parents attributed regression far more often to a stressful event (e.g. birth of a sibling) than to vaccination.â€
I don’t recall these surveys – have you references?
Century: Go back about 5 messages.
Joseph : 1 hour, 38 minutes ago
Century: Go back about 5 messages
Joseph,
Maybe it’s me, but there’s nothing concerning this about 5 messages back.
Century – This comment from Joseph.
Kev
Thanks – But that message was not there earlier. The messages went from David Seidel (Hi there JB) straight to Joseph talking about Ritalin, hence my puzzlement.
Have you got a gremlin in the works?
Not gremlins exactly – but because of the incredible amount of comment spam I get here, any comment with more then one link in immediately gets moderated and has to be freed manually by me.
It’s a pain but it stops the porn and viagra crap from getting through.
Brad,
So, that’s what the “B” in “JB” stands for.
Regarding the concept of “brain drugs” – you apparently don’t know very much about “drugs”, or you would have known that many of the so-called “biomedical interventions” advocated by you and the others in your play-group are also “brain drugs”.
In a very broad sense, even “minerals” like magnesium and vitamins like B12 (remember Bernie’s vitamin B12 and magnesium “cure”) are “brain drugs” – especially the magnesium. And the man who is probably the world’s expert on mercury and its chelation (Dr. HV Aposhian) has stated that any effects of chelation on autism need to consider possible direct effects of DMPS and/or DMSA on the brain.
You also might be interested to know that several studies – some dating back to at least 1995 – have found methylphenidate (Ritalin) to be an effective treatment for some autistic children. Even Bernie Rimland’s lame parent survey found that 29% of parents report improvement with “Ritalin”. Not bad, considering that:
[a] The group of parents filling out the “survey” are pre-selected to be opposed to “mainstream” medicine.
[b] No study has ever shown any demonstrable benefit of chelation in autistic children.
So, before you point fingers at parents who are using a scientifically supported treatment, remember that you and others in your group are using therapies that are unencumbered by any supporting scientific data.
By the way, Buttar said he would have his TD-DMPS data ready by the end of 2005 – where is it? Or was he just kidding?
Pometheus
Even Bernie Rimland’s lame parent survey found that 29% of parents report improvement with “Ritalinâ€.
That’s very low as far as parental reports of success go – compared to placebo. It may indeed be due to bias against pharmaceuticals.
Ok:
Firstly, clone3g, it appears clear from your highly defensive remarks that you give your child Ritalin. I find that to be hypocritical. If I’m wrong, correct me, and apologies for the assumption. Oh, and doesn’t Ritalin have a black box warning label? Are there any deaths from Ritalin?
Prometheus, I would really love to meet you in person. It’s hard to believe you are as big an asshole as you come across in print, but you never know. I’m also curious if you have actually accomplished anything in the real world, or if the blogosphere is just a refuge for you from an uninspired life. I know a lot of “scientists”, many who work for me, and you are typically cut from the same cloth, with a feigned intellectual arrogance borne of a deep reservoir of fear that the things you actually do know or think you know are wrong, useless, or both. You write:
“So, before you point fingers at parents who are using a scientifically supported treatment, remember that you and others in your group are using therapies that are unencumbered by any supporting scientific data.”
Here’s my point: if you believe autism has no cure and that your child should just be accepted, how can you give your child a brain drug? I will be the first to admit that I do not accept my child’s autism!!!! I want it to go away, dammit, and him to have the “normal” life I think he deserves. But if you are preaching that autism should be accepted, how can you give your child a drug to alter their autism? It’s hypocritical!! That’s my point.
While I have your rapt attention (maybe it’s me, but it appears I am the only biomed parent still posting here…I should probably get some help myself . . .) I want to clear up something that seems to come up often on this group:
1. If you “discovered” you were autistic or aspie in high school or college, you have nothing in common with the kids I am talking about and nothing in common with my son. And, I have no issue with you or your autism. May you lead a great life, God Bless you.
2. If my son had the kind of autism that could escape detection until high school, I would be the happiest parent in the freakin universe.
3. If you think the kids I am talking about with autism are on their way to developing into functioning adults, we are talking about 2 different things. The autism in my world is a nine year old boy who has no words, no friends, still in diapers, and a limited ability to communicate. If you are reading my words right now and you consider yourself autistic, please realize that this is something very, very, very different.
We biomed parents are not reacting to a child who is a touch quirky or odd, we are reacting to a child who is non-verbal, withdrawn, and spends their day in perseverative behavior mode. When we see someone write in completely logical, well-crafter prose and claim to be autistic, CAN YOU SEE THE DISCONNECT? I’m not doubting your label, but I am doubting the application of the label to such a broad range of outcomes.
Brad
Brand,
know a lot of “scientistsâ€, many who work for me
Since when do VC firms have scientists on the payroll?
Or are you the chief science officer for Oregon Fiber or Interational Chai or any of those other companies in which you sat on the board; contributing your stellar logic and observation skills?
Or do you mean scientists are on the Generation Rescue payroll? Nah, I can’t imagine you’d disparage anyone sympathetic to the cause.
Or do you have a side business you’re not telling us about? It’s ok if you threw a few bucks at College Pharmacy or Doctor’s Data or MedCon. Nobody’s going to think differently of you.
The autism in my world is a nine year old boy who has no words, no friends, still in diapers, and a limited ability to communicate.
Your son isn’t nine years old, isn’t he? Considering he was three when this article was written…
http://www.wweek.com/editorial/3149/6822/
Which means your son is a long way from being that nine year old. You have no idea what his future holds, with or without therapy.
Here’s my point: if you believe autism has no cure and that your child should just be accepted, how can you give your child a brain drug? I will be the first to admit that I do not accept my child’s autism! I want it to go away, dammit, and him to have the “normal†life I think he deserves. But if you are preaching that autism should be accepted, how can you give your child a drug to alter their autism? It’s hypocritical!! That’s my point.
People without a disorder take brain drugs that they find helpful in various ways. Case in point is students who take Ritalin to improve attention and school performance. Janna explained the other day why she takes Ritalin without considering ADHD a disease.
The autism in my world is a nine year old boy who has no words, no friends, still in diapers, and a limited ability to communicate. If you are reading my words right now and you consider yourself autistic, please realize that this is something very, very, very different.
That again. The limitations inherent to being autistic are broad and it’s true that some of us don’t have comparable difficulties. I don’t claim to have most of the limitations you mention. But you are making a generalization and stereotyping. There are adult autistics who post on the internet or write books and nevertheless wear diapers, don’t have friends, or are mute. There are adult autistics who had all those difficulties in childhood (actually, NTs have those too, but the age cut-off is what’s at issue). There is no reason to write off an autistic child as incapable of development altogether; and it’s not helpful to autistic children to be written off this way.
2 things:
– I am the last person in the world to “write-off” an autistic child! My son is autistic and I love him with an intensity and depth than only a parent could understand. Whoever he ends up being, I will have his back and love him as long as I live. I’m simply discovering that as we address his very real medical issues, the symptoms that cause him to be labeled autistic are disappearing.
– I’m not saying my son is 9!!! I was providing a composite of what the parents in my world are dealing with and how far from normal their children are, even as they get older. My beautiful guy is 3, now uses hundreds of words, has a friend, is engaged in our world, and we are potty-training right now. You guys would say that is a product of his natural development and I would say you have no way of knowing that and thinking that serves to make you feel better about not considering the relationship between medical issues and the autism label.
Where’s all the other biomed parents when I need them, I’m feeling so picked on I think I need a Kleenex!! Boo hoo!!
Brad
JBH: Firstly, clone3g, it appears clear from your highly defensive remarks that you give your child Ritalin. I find that to be hypocritical. If I’m wrong, correct me, and apologies for the assumption.
Wrong, say it with me, Wrong. I know it isn’t in your vocabulary but we would all have a lot more respect for you if you would admit when you are wrong or direct a little of that rage toward the people and treatments you have endorsed in the past.
Don’t tell me you still believe in and support all of the quacks you’ve promoted from the beginning? Don’t you and your angels have a responsibility to other parents to keep them from wasting time and money on worthless potions and hucksters?
I don’t require an apology from you for your assumptions — you have a very long list to work through before you get around to such a minor transgression.
Jennifer is my real name. My child is not on prescription medication of any kind, but does take safe levels of vitamin, mineral and EFA supplementation. I believe it makes a difference for her, and so you can put me on the biomed side if you want, Mr. Handley.
James referred to the ketogenic diet. It is know to work to control seizures, and it has even been shown to result in children improving to below the autism cut-off in the CARS. That is much closer to a cure than you can show for chelation or GFCF or any other diet.
Now, tell me, what could mercury poisoning have to do with the ketogenic diet?
My beautiful guy is 3, now uses hundreds of words, has a friend, is engaged in our world, and we are potty-training right now. You guys would say that is a product of his natural development and I would say you have no way of knowing that and thinking that serves to make you feel better about not considering the relationship between medical issues and the autism label.
First off, I’d say your kid seems to be functioning quite well for his age. It’s unclear where your level of worry comes from, frankly. As to why your child has reached this level of development, well, why do kids in general reach this level of development? Is it because of biomed? Without any evidence to the contrary, why wouldn’t you expect us to give credit to the child rather than to vitamins and chelators?
It’s impossible to determine where a kid will be as an adult based on how they present at 3, 6, or even 10. Can’t be done. One of my good friends was, at 4, supposed to grow up to be nonverbal and ‘trainable’. She is a talented artist, singer, and honor student.
I was dx’d at 3. Pretty grim prognosis there. No treatment because parents didnt want to believe it. And yet…mainstream school! HAve (autistic) friends. I am happy with who I am and always was…it was other people, namely bullies and nasty tricking NT children, who needed fixing. *I* was just fine and still am.
Brad,
You guys would say that is a product of his natural development and I would say you have no way of knowing that and thinking that serves to make you feel better about not considering the relationship between medical issues and the autism label.
This is exactly why treatment protocols need to be tested – to ensure that they provide improvement above and beyond what one might expect with normal development. With all of the doctors trying these treatment protocols for a number of years, it shouldn’t be that difficult to find case studies for a journal article, right? And with all of the children out there that are trying these treatments today, it should be equally simple to start a pilot study of said treatments, correct? Even a small, short-term study that shows chelation or lupron plays a role in a child’s improvement is more than you have today and would go a ways towards convincing skeptics.
It is know to work to control seizures, and it has even been shown to result in children improving to below the autism cut-off in the CARS.
That sounded interesting Jennifer, but looking at the study, it doesn’t use a control group on placebo. The 60% improvement rate is similar to the Secretin studies. That said, the Ketogenic diet probably has a much better chance of usefulness in autism than any quack treatment Brad experiments with.
I won’t bore any of you with the littany of testing for medical issues we do on our son. Interestingly, we do the same tests on our older son, too. And, what do we learn? NT son’s tests are typically “normal” range, and Jamison’s are way out of whack. I guess you all would call that a “co-morbidity” or some other such euphamism. Then, we treat what the test highlights as an issue. Then, he improves and the symptoms that qualified him for an autism label subside.
Natural course of development? Please.
Kassianne, I am THRILLED you are happy with your life, that’s all I want for my son. But, to say a 10 year old non-verbal, severely autistic child has an “unpredictable” developemntal path that may allow him to live an independent life is a stretch. Be real.
Jennifer, you sure sound like a biomed parent to me, all the more power to you. Seems we both want the same thing: for our kids to have the happiest, most full life possible.
What I simply remain astonished by is the unwillingness of many in this group to believe the stories of complete recovery. An asshole like Prometheus, who anonymously claims to be a scientist, says that some autistic kids just get better:
“Fact is, some kids get better – regardless of what is done to them – simply because they were going to get better on their own. Call it what you like, Fore, it’s just the way autism works.”
Do the rest of you believe such BULLSHIT? Doesn’t there have to be a reason for WHY they got better? How can the reason be “it’s just the way it works”!! This is Prom-queen-theus, the “scientist”?
Prometheus, me thinks you are a washed up scientist with no better thing to do with your time.
Brad
Anonimouse:
I like you, your comments are always fair, and I think you remain open-minded enough to do right by your child.
2 things:
1. You have to realize the unbelievable politics involved with anyone studying a “cure” for autism. To say you are swimming upstream is an extreme understatement.
2. a double-blind trial of oral DMSA is taking place as we speak. I called Dr. Adams a year ago and offered to help fund it, but he was already set. I have no idea what the results of his study will be, and I am all for more. Have you any idea how much shit he has to endure to get his trial off the ground?
Do not think for a moment that the medical community is exploring any avenue to help our kids that may yield results. They are not. It takes courageous parents like Jim Adams for anything to happen, and that’s too bad because our kids need more answers sooner. If we’re right, we need to convince skeptics like you faster, with science.
Look at the unvaccinated children study we are initiating. Why has no one done this? It’s simple, and it would contribute greatly to the debate. One simple reason: if the answer is what I believe it will be, there our many who never want the study to happen. What if we find that 1 in 10,000 unvaccinated kids has autism?
And, despite Kevin’s assinine posts, I’m no conspiracy theorist. My Dad worked for the f-ing CIA for 30 years for God’s sake!! I know how dumb and inept a government bureaucracy can be, and I hate to break this to you, but government agencies do things that hurt people and then try to cover it up. It happens.
Brad
Pathetic. What’s pathetic is an asshole nobody scientist who writes in his blog that GR has something to do with a murdered child. The only person who has anything to do with the murder of that poor child is the insane parent who did it. To bring my organization into that is pathetic, stupid, and profoundly unproductive. And, Prometheus, I am probably the last guy on earth you want pissed off at you, which I now am.
Brad
Ooh, ooh, what about me? Can you be pissed off at me too?
I like it when I’m threatened and called names.
Do the rest of you believe such BULLSHIT? Doesn’t there have to be a reason for WHY they got better? How can the reason be “it’s just the way it worksâ€!! This is Prom-queen-theus, the “scientistâ€?
You do trust Jim Adams, right? Check out Table 2 from his study on multivitamins. See the improvement on “Expressive Language” for example on Placebo. That’s the largest improvement measured in the study.
Many Secretin studies have been performed finding no significant difference with placebo (and apparently a weak negative effect). In Sandler (1995) autistic kids on placebo dropped an average of 17.8 points in the ABC. A total of 69% of parents in the study remained interested in Secretin.
In Coplan (2003) 77% of families reported improvement, even though they were unable to distinguish Secretin from placebo.
Should all kids be given at least a placebo then? Well, that could be argued, but it’s not clear that the effects aren’t due to evaluator bias.
To be clear, Brad, are you saying that natural development does not exist, or that natural development does not exist in autistic children?
Bard:
Did JBestJR write we’re partly to blame for the murder of a child?
Brad
JBJr did say that “Neurodiversity” (I think he means us) is entirely to blame for the murder of a child, you know, with our promotion of acceptance and respect for the autistic condition. JBJr has said dumb things, utterly stupid things, and this.
Joseph said about the ketogenic diet: “That sounded interesting Jennifer, but looking at the study, it doesn’t use a control group on placebo. ”
I think it would be almost impossible to think up a placebo for that diet. I can’t, can anyone else? The diet involves eating a lot of fat, and little protein. It ‘s sort of an Atkin’s diet on steroids. A control group would have been good, though. Encouragingly, there were 2 of 30 children who moved right off the spectrum in 6 months. That’s not bad.
Mr. Handley, can you comment please about the ketogenic diet? If you found any study on chelation showing these kind of effects, you’d be ecstatic. And how does this, or any kind of diet pertain to your autism=mercury hypothesis?
Look, you can wish that me and some other guy are the same person, and we’re not. We’re a bunch of parents trying to help other parents. I profoundly disagree with the notion that anyone except the parent doing the killing is responsible for a child’s murder.
Blaming anyone else is dead wrong. If JBJr said that, he’s wrong and Prometheus is sure as fuck wrong, too. Using a murder to divide parents viewpoints, which Kevin has also done, is irresponsibly inflammatory and helps no one.
Prometheus made a mistake by bringing GR into the mix on a story of a murdered autistic child. It was wrong to do, and if you read his blog, some of this “followers” agree with my POV.
By the way, Bard, it’s weird of you to bask in this whole anonymity game, like some childish nanny-nanny-boo-boo kid. There are 2 types of bloggers. Folks like Kevin, Seidels, etc who have the decency to blog in their own name, which I respect, and chicken-shit victims who don’t. I have nothing to hide, and my background is out there for the world to see. It’s frustrating to be criticized by someone who can find out whatever they want about you while hiding behind a veil andI personally think it’s chicken-shit. But, hey, you do the same thing so I think you are chicken-shit, too, whomever the fuck you are. I also think anonymous bloggers are typically nobodies, which is why they remain anonymous.
Brad
Brad
Brad, you are crossing the line into outright lies.
_” If you think the kids I am talking about with autism are on their way to developing into functioning adults, we are talking about 2 different things. The autism in my world is a nine year old boy who has no words, no friends, still in diapers, and a limited ability to communicate. If you are reading my words right now and you consider yourself autistic, please realize that this is something very, very, very different.”_
A snapshot of any childs life will reveal just that – a snapshot – you know from our public and private conversations that Jamie and Megan are very very similar. However, she continues to develop and mature in a way at least equal to Jamie’s progress (going by what you’ve said) – why are you so determined to try and represent all non-biomed parents as talking about children dissimilar from what _you_ perceive autism to be for Jamie? It’s as dishonest as your weak strawman argument earlier regarding ritalin.
_”When we see someone write in completely logical, well-crafter prose and claim to be autistic, CAN YOU SEE THE DISCONNECT? I’m not doubting your label, but I am doubting the application of the label to such a broad range of outcomes.”_
Here’s a simple experiment Brad. Take an NT six year old and an NT 40 year old and ask them to write about how they feel about being NT.
Kids grow. Kids develop. Your kid and my kid simply do it at different speeds to an NT kid and probably different from each other.
You’re attempting to redefine this as biomed vs neurodiversity which it never has been and never will be. Jennifer could be a biomed parent. I _know_ some of the signatures on the ‘autism speaks – don’t speak for me’ petition are from biomed parents. _I_ could easily be a biomed parent. You’re not a biomed parent Brad. You’re an anti-thiomersal parents. There’s a big difference.
Your attempts to distance yourself from thiomersal are very revealing Brad.
Kevin:
I’ve never met your daughter, so I can’t say she is above or below Jamison. We don’t correspond privately often enough that would give you the remotest perspective on how Jamie is doing versus three or six months ago or versus your daughter. And, I have no idea where your daughter is because you have never told me. Email me a phone number and I will have Jamie leave a message, and you can do the same for Megan.
I’ve met so many parents who have the nine year-old that I described, and that child is very unlikely to lead a normal adult life. I hear from these parents all the time. Try telling them their child will be just fine.
I have no idea what you are talking about when you claim what I have written is an “outright lie.” When you say I am not a biomed parent, now that’s an outright lie. Am I an anti-thimerosal parent. Duh?
And, David, since when am I manically defensive?
What I am is genuinely pissed off that Prometheus blamed GR for a parent killing his child. If I said it was your fault, you’d be pissed, too. Unfortunately for You, David, I am doing just fine.
Gotta go enjoy the weekend. Please feel free to talk shit about me when I am gone.
The next time you hear from me will be after the results come back from the unvax study.
Cheerio,
Brad
Hey Brad,
I’ll ask again: Why bother with your little study? Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see the results of such a study, assuming it is well designed, but why bother?
By the time you have the results we will be so far away from the last date that thimerosal was used in vaccines there will be no doubts about the role of thimerosal in autism.
Unless of course you are justy another antivaxxer.
– What I am is genuinely pissed off that Prometheus blamed GR for a parent killing his child.
It does not appear Prometheus blamed GR for a parent killing his child.
Prometheus opined that some small part of the “credit” should go to the incessant drumbeats of doom, gloom, and despair.
Whilst he or she suggests that such doom, gloom, and despair comes from organisations like GR, Safeminds, etcetera, among many others (referenced as ilk), this is not difficult to support with truth. Look for writings by Mr. Fore Sam. You will find large quantities of autism hell, autism as an abyss, train wrecks, etcetera, etcetera.
Clone3g: Brad’s study is on unvaccinated kids. So while thimerosal is basically already ruled out, Brad is hoping to still correlate autism to vaccines in general. I do hope Brad asks for the age of each child. He needs to find out the rate of autism among unvaccinated kids 4 or older. The study will cost a lot of money. He’ll need to survey at least 100,000 families I’d say. It would be a shame if it turns out to be a waste of resources. I asked for Brad’s word on whether he’ll report any findings, whatever they are, but he did not reply to that.
To make the study a bit more useful, Brad should also take the opportunity to ask additional questions about other potential risk factors and confounding factors. To give an example, he will find that 100% of the families of autistic kids own a phone.
Look for writings by Mr. Fore Sam.
That’s true. Fore Sam is a Rescue Angel with Generation Rescue. Fore Sam has stated that an autistic child, unless cured, is better off dead than alive. It’s hard to see where Prometheus’ claims are flawed.
_”I’ve never met your daughter, so I can’t say she is above or below Jamison. We don’t correspond privately often enough that would give you the remotest perspective on how Jamie is doing versus three or six months ago or versus your daughter. And, I have no idea where your daughter is because you have never told me.”_
OK Brad – if that’s how you want it.
_”I have no idea what you are talking about when you claim what I have written is an “outright lie.†When you say I am not a biomed parent, now that’s an outright lie. Am I an anti-thimerosal parent. Duh?”_
Come off it Brad. The GR site is a homage to thiomersal and chelation. I understand you want to start distancing yourself from that stance now but don’t pretend you’re in any way a parent who practices Biomed as a theory. Chelation of mercury is what you consistently stand up for.
_”The next time you hear from me will be after the results come back from the unvax study.”_
I still don’t get why you think this will help your cause. The exact opposite is being played before our eyes in the CDDS data – whats’ your comment on that?
Bradford Handley tantrummed: “We biomed parents are not reacting to a child who is a touch quirky or odd, we are reacting to a child who is non-verbal, withdrawn, and spends their day in perseverative behavior mode. When we see someone write in completely logical, well-crafter prose and claim to be autistic, CAN YOU SEE THE DISCONNECT? I’m not doubting your label, but I am doubting the application of the label to such a broad range of outcomes.”
Dude. Some of us you despise are parents of those kinds of kids.
Ms. Clark is my real name and my ASD kid has never been on any “psychoactive” (that’s “brain drug” to you, Mr. Boy-I-sure-sound-uninformed-for-a-guy-who-graduated-wiff-a-bachelors-degree-from Stanford). I’m agnostic on Ritalin. It doesn’t change a kid’s autism. It might make him or her concentrate better, but I know there are dangers associated with it. At least there is some science on Ritalin, unlike nasal B12 spray and TDDMPS for little autistic kids.
I have taken low doses of antidepressants in the past. I”m not on any–say it with me Bradford Handley–PSYCHOACTIVE (sie-co-ACT-iv), drugs now.
I am *pro* biomedical interventions when they have some kind of legitimate reason and aren’t being sold by freaks making huge profits off of the clinic visits or the sales of whatever they are pushing. I am an aging hippie, Brad, dear. Aging hippies all spent years of their lives in and out of healthfood stores buying herbal tinctures and teas and flower salves and vitamins, not to mention dessicated beef glandulars and bee propolis… (see? It’s only a miracle that my kids aren’t named MountainFaery Equinox and Sky-Gem Colorado). If you dig a bit you can find places on the web where I waxed wrothful about big pharma and their phishing for neuro customers of various stripes, not autism, in this case.
Please, please, Brad, come back and tell me you hate my guts, too. It’s unclear because you know who I am and I also blog under a pseudonym. Please tell me you hate me as much as you hate Prometheus, because I agree with him/her that GR has a small part in encouraging horrific stress on some parents of autistic kids. Call me, “Autism prom-queen,” OK?? I miss the spittle, bile and vitriol. No really.
So you aren’t standing by ol’ Rashid Buttar now? Abandon him as far as your own son, did you? Are you flacking for him and the Geiers on your website?
“I still don’t get why you think this will help your cause. The exact opposite is being played before our eyes in the CDDS data – whats’ your comment on that”?
That’s being played out now, Kev. Really? How are you going to support that? Brad’s idea is to do a study on children who have not been vaccinated vs. children who have been vaccinated. How do you get to your above comment from that? How is the CDDS data playing into that at all. Try again.
p.s. I love it when the ND’s get their knickers in a bunch…
p.p.s Thanks to Dave S, Kev, David (no diploma) and Joseph for begging me to return.
_”That’s being played out now, Kev. Really? How are you going to support that? Brad’s idea is to do a study on children who have not been vaccinated vs. children who have been vaccinated. How do you get to your above comment from that? How is the CDDS data playing into that at all. Try again.”_
I see your absence didn’t do the old grey matter any good did it Sue?
Lets go through it step by step. CDDS data has been touted by you lot as ‘the gold standard’. It’s the opposite of comparing vaccine vs unvaccinated populations as it compares pre-thiomersal removal with post-thiomersal removal.
There. That’s not too tricky to understand is it Sue?
Now we’ve explained things on a more ‘Dick and Jane’ level for you Sue..what’s your opinion on why nobody seems to want to talk about CDDS data any more? Whilst you’re at it, tell me exactly how Brad’s Big Idea will demonstrate thiomersal causes autism?
p.s. I love it when you expose your intelligence for all to see
p.p.s We know you crave the attention ;o)
“There. That’s not too tricky to understand is it Sue”?
Thanks for the explanation but of course it does nothing to answer my question. Let’s try again. Please stay on topic. Brad has proposed a study on vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children. Certainly, a study like this would look at vaccines in general and not only the thimerosal issue. So, Kev, once again… how do the CDDS numbers play into that concept? Think really hard.
“what’s your opinion on why nobody seems to want to talk about CDDS data any more”?
You would have to ask those who normally do the numbers. I can tell you one thing. It’s definately NOT because they have suddenly decided that our vaccine policy of the 1990’s and continuing on today are SAFE. I can assure you of that.
“Whilst you’re at it, tell me exactly how Brad’s Big Idea will demonstrate thiomersal causes autism”?
Yeah, his study probably won’t prove that the earth is made out of cheese either. It could possibly give us the sense of whether there is the same rate of autism among vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children.
p.s. Do you like the earth/cheese analogy. I learned that from you guys.
“It could possibly give us the sense of whether there is the same rate of autism among vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children.”
So it’s going to look at actual vaccination status and actual diagnoses? Otherwise it’s going to give a only sense of how parents of unvaccinated vs. vaccinated children report presence of an autism diagnosis.
Then, if a correlation is suggested based on parent reports, a study of actual vaccination status and autism diagnoses would be needed. Even then, correlation doesn’t equal causation, so why not skip the first study?
Ms. Clark:
Sigh, it’s almost like you want me to insult you because negative attention beats no attention. Self-hatred will do that to a person.
Yes, I graduated with honors from Stanford. You will be disappointed to learn that I also received a need-based scholarship to attend, which would make any silver-spoon analogies of me quite false.
Is it possible that a 55 year-old woman, living in a trailer and cashing her weekly welfare check while struggling to get an undergraduate degree from UC-Decadence actually has more IQ points than I do? Sure, it’s possible. They just might be the pesky kind of IQ points that don’t transfer too well to living in the modern world.
Maybe you should up the dose on your own brain drugs, they don’t appear to be working very well…
Yes, I graduated with honors from Stanford.
That actually explains quite a bit, particularly the high expectations about how a child should develop and the subsequent ‘sky is falling’ talk. I’d also note that the vast majority of normal people don’t graduate with honors from Stanford. Could this be related to autism? That’s a different argument.
Brad, you say your son is 3 and has a vocabulary of 100 words. My dad was completely mute until he was 4. He never received a psychiatric label of any kind. There was some worry, yes, but there was none of this catastrophizing that goes on these days because a child is not exactly where he should be developmentally.
_”So, Kev, once again… how do the CDDS numbers play into that concept? Think really hard.”_
Awww, this is better than I thought it would be :o)
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink – you can lead a Sue M to logic but can’t make her think.
OK, smaller words.
Lots of thiomersal then. Hardly any now. Autism rates still rising.
vs
Vaccinated kids with autism vs unvaccinated kids without autism.
Now, one of these scenarios directly compares autism rates with thiomersal use. The other (lets use a big word like ‘opposite’) does not.
Brad’s study would be interesting, no doubt about it, but it wouldn’t mean a fart in a high wind. Nothing new there though right? ;o)
Joseph wrote:
“Brad, you say your son is 3 and has a vocabulary of 100 words. My dad was completely mute until he was 4. He never received a psychiatric label of any kind. There was some worry, yes, but there was none of this catastrophizing that goes on these days because a child is not exactly where he should be developmentally.”
Joseph, I do take comfort in that, really, I do. I pray every day that Jamie’s developmental path is like your dad’s, meaning Jami goes on to lead an independent life. I hope you read what I wrote about testing my NT son versus Jamison. We are treating Jamie for what ails him, and the behaviors that got him an autism label subside. Coincidence? If so, a very happy coincidence.
I wish you would do a bunch of non-invasive labs on your autistic son. And, if you have an NT child, him or her, too. Then, compare them. If there are meaningful differences, find out why and, perhaps, act.
On the Stanford thing, I never claimed to be “normal”, it’s just a new experience for me to have my intelligence called into question, particularly from someone with such a pedigreed background like Ms. Clark. And, Ms. Clark, if my bathroom is gold-plated, it’s gold I earned myself. I know how it feels to not have money, and it seems to have created one hell of a chip for you. It’s a dog eat dog world, Ms. Clark, and I guess you’re wearing Milkbone underwear. Cheers,
Brad
And yet again, the Stanford educated one misses the thing completely.