Dear Doctor Rashid Buttar,
I understand that you sell an autism cure called TD-DPMS (Trans Dermal DPMS). As the parent of an autistic child I’m very curious about this product and how it helps autistics.
I’m led to believe that TD-DPMS is not FDA approved and that David Kirby (author: Evidence of Harm) reports that:
one manufacturer of it told compounding pharmacists not to make up transdermal patches of the stuff because some kids had had bad reactions with rashes and even bleeding and scarring.
Is this true? Is this bad reaction the reason you decided to turn to making TD-DPMS a cream instead of a patch? How does this affect the effectiveness of the product? As I’m sure you know being a Toxicologist, Chelation agents need to absorb a certain amount of the product in order to even begin to be effective. Where are the studies I can get hold of to see the rates of absorption for myself?
In fact, this brings me neatly onto a related matter. Such an important scientist as yourself must surely have peers flocking to review your work. As such an august scientist you are no doubt aware of the most basic scientific precept of subjecting your scientific work for review so that others may critically appraise your work and replicate it. I was surprised therefore to discover that a search of http://www.pubmed.gov – the site that lists all scientific articles in peer-reviewed scientific literature – and found nothing when searching for ‘Rashid Buttar’. Did you submit your thesis under a pseudonym perhaps? I’m positive this must be an oversight and that the safety and efficacy of a product that you regularly use on children has been regularly tested and re-tested by both yourself and your peers as to do otherwise is tantamount to admitting one is afraid to submit one’s work for peer review – I’m certain that can’t be the case for you! The commenter below must surely be mistaken?
To be listed in PubMed, you have to have published scientific articles in the peer-reviewed scientific literature. It’s just that simple. Apparently Dr. Buttar couldn’t be bothered to submit his work to real scientific journals. It’s hard to be taken seriously as a researcher or scientist if you aren’t published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. Certainly, I don’t take him seriously. In Buttar’s own words, he doesn’t know how much of the stuff is going in to the kid or how long it stays there.
Moving on, I was heartened to read in a PDF of yours that:
In a study due to be released by the winter of 2004, conclusive data was accumulated regarding the efficacy of a specifically formulated transdermally applied combination of DMPS conjugated with a number of peptides, called TD-DMPS
Although I was unable to find a copy of any report containing any data – conclusive or otherwise – and I was concerned to note that its now fully 6 months after your stated deadline (trouble with Secretary’s?), I feel sure that once this report is subjected to the rigours of scientific peer review in a scientific journal will fully vindicate the use of your TD-DPMS. I look forward particularly to seeing data on the long term effects of chelation on children and the incontrovertible proof that Chelation cures autism in all cases. Could you provide a definitive date of publication and details of which Medical Journal it will be appearing in please.
By the way, I know your cream is specifically geared towards kids as your remarks here make that clear:
Our success has been all under the age of nine, nine or under. Now since then, when I presented to Congress I told them that I didn’t think this would be effective for older children because the older children would use it, I didn’t see — they got better, they started talking, but they’re not in my book considered normal. They can read, but they’ll never do much more than flip hamburgers for a living, that type of thing.
In fact, it was after reading this that I decided to contact you. Anyone with such an obvious empathy and deep understanding of autism and autistics is just the sort of person I’d like involved in my daughters treatment. Its also good to see how concerned you are with treating non-verbal autistics as a matter of choice. Such selfless dedication can only be lauded in this day and age and lets face it – those autistics who can talk aren’t probably such an inconvenience to their parents and possibly don’t look quite as heart-wrenching in your parents videos. Its OK – I’m fully aware of the need to be marketable and nothing pulls at the heart strings as much as a child trapped in the ‘abyss of autism’ as one person recently called it.
It was a bit puzzling though. I know of several autistic adults who were diagnosed as low functioning in childhood who later grew up and became reclassified as high functioning. How could that happen do you think? Possibly a naturally occurring ‘hot spring’ of TD-DPMS they fell into? A kind of ‘Old faithful’ of Chelation? I mean, they claim they just ‘developed’ as they grew up but that can’t be right can it? People don’t just develop with age do they? Especially kids?
I was also interested to see that you test for high levels of Mercury by using hair analysis. The reason I was interested in this is that the AMA say that:
The AMA opposes chemical analysis of the hair as a determinant of the need for medical therapy and supports informing the American public and appropriate governmental agencies of this unproven practice and its potential for health care fraud.
and that
A recent 2-year study of students exposed to fumes from metal welding found that hair analysis did not consistently reflect blood levels of 11 heavy metals.
So now I was confused. On one hand I had the AMA and their 2 year peer reviewed study and on the other I had you. Now don’t get me wrong – I’m *sure* you’re really really late close to releasing your data for scientific review but you’ll forgive me if I entertained a moment of doubt. I mean, these guys seem to really know their stuff:
Hair mercury levels are not an accurate indicator of mercury exposure. Hair testing has never been standardized to provide meaningful information.
They then go on to list a whole load of reasons why not and then say:
Thus it should be obvious that analyzing hair for mercury is a waste of time and money and cannot be used to diagnose mercury poisoning. A competent practitioner would easily know this. It is fraudulent to use hair analysis to diagnose “toxic levels” of mercury (or any other heavy metal) or to assess nutritional status (and claim someone is “deficient” and prescribe or sell them supplements).
OK, so I was getting a little annoyed now. These guys were calling you a fraud! I mean here they were with their reams and reams of scientifically validated evidence and there you were with your cream and they had the temerity to call you a fraudulant quack! The cheek of some people!
And talking of cheek, I read that:
Dr. Buttar is the Vice-Chairman of the American Board of Clinical Metal Toxicology and holds a position of Visiting Scientist at North Carolina State University
And yet when I visited the NCSU website I couldn’t find any mention of you – don’t worry though, I emailed the site and asked them to confirm your status so no doubt they’ll be rectifying this error soon. Actually, now that I think about it it was a few days ago I mailed them and I haven’t had a response yet. Hmmm. Odd.
And the American Board of Medical Specialties – whats wrong with those guys? They say:
The American Board of Medical Specialties does not recognize the American Board of Chelation Therapists, the American Board of Clinical Metal Toxicology, the American Board of Chelation Therapy, and the Board Of Medical Toxicology
The way they word it – you know, making Chelationists put this paragraph on consent forms and everything – makes it look like they don’t trust you and think you’re all a bunch of quacks. Man, you must long for the days when the medical community just closed ranks against all outsiders. People had proper respect for alternative medical practitioners then I bet.
On that note, I was fascinated to read some of your other patients testimonials. The guy who says that:
He (Dr Buttar) told me that most of his patients were much worse off than I and that God had Blessed me by giving me a wake up call and that he could enable my body to heal itself! Now that is the first time I have ever heard a Doctor say he could enable my body to heal cancer.
Impressive stuff! Is the cancer cure done with cream too? I actually telephoned NHSDirect to see if they’d heard of this treatment but I didn’t get a straight answer. Actually they sounded a bit weird. There was a lot of what sounded like giggling on the other end of the line. Not very professional is it?
I was also interested in your Anti-Aging stuff:
As an anti-aging specialist, I have read many of the popular health and longevity books. Very few have impressed me. For this reason, I probably never would have read Natural Hormonal Enhancement had my associate not insisted, after reading it himself. Admittedly, I picked-up the book with a negative predisposition, assuming it would be more of the same. I couldn’t
have been more wrong in that assumption. Natural Hormonal Enhancement is very well-written and well-researched and it contains information that even many of my peers don’t understand or don’t recognize. I highly recommend this book.
The book in question being described on that site as:
Finally a Rational Approach to Health and Fitness! The Revolutionary Breakthrough that Renders Conventional Exercise and Diet Programs Obsolete! Harness the Most Powerful Biological Force in the Universe – Your Own Hormones – to Reshape Your Body and Turn Back the Hands of Time on Aging!
Blimey! You’re one busy guy! Cures for autism, cancer and even old age! Now, I know many people would find this suspicious but not me. Anything that says they can ‘reshape my body’ without exercise or diet gets my vote! Can I still drink beer?
In closing then Dr Buttar, I’d really appreciate answers to the questions I’ve posed you here, particularly on the effectiveness of TD-DPMS. I have a fairly large website that gets around 1300 unique visitors a day (that’s a few hundred thousand hits) and I’ve posted a copy of this email up so all my visitors can read it – I’ll be happy to post any response you can give me up there too. I know lots and lots of people who are asking questions about you.
In closing, my apologies for leaving the HTML in place in this email – I couldn’t be bothered to do my job properly. I’m sure you know what I mean. Look forward to hearing from you very very soon.
Left Brain Right Brain 
Hi Kev, just read this thread and thought I would voice my opinion. I guess I’m one of those parents that treats their kids as guinea pigs, as you put it. Personally I don’t see it that way but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I’m not trying to be disrespectful but all the accepted mainstream treatments you have mentioned have at one stage in their development been considered unproven and alternative and the parents willing to undertake them considered (by people such as yourself) as reckless and irresponsible. But without parents willing to take an informed next step, those treatments would not be available to your daughter today. Only fifty or so years ago the parents of autistic children were considered by mainstream medicine as being directly responsible for their child’s condition, as the peer reviewed professional opinion of the time was that Autism was caused by either an abusive father or frigid mother syndrome.
So I guess the point I’m trying to make is, I don’t consider a parent making a well researched informed decision as an irresponsible act, its the reason we have the accepted treatments we have today and the reason that the treatment options our children’s children will have, will be better.
I think Arthur Schopenhauer said it best “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident”
Cheer’s Stew.
I have 2 kids with autism and they are both in intensive interventions. They are coming along nicely. Bottom line is I’m not going to allow those toxins to stay in their bodies any longer than I have to. All the therapies in the world can’t stop mercury and other toxins from continuing to do damage to their little growing bodies and brains…
So you have 2 kids who are autistic eh Colleen? Tell me, was the second one vaccinated?
If so, why did you do it when you ‘knew’ it caused your first chlds autism? If s/he wasn’t then you need to read this.
I am revisiting this rediculous blog because after 5 months of chelation I have seen dramatic improvments in my son. I have also learned far more about why my son is autistic and why his body reacts to things the way it does.
When i initially posted in this tread I was very angry and a bit on the uninformed side. That doesn’t mean that I was wrong in some of the things I said, it mearly means that I wasn’t as thorough as I ought to have been.
My son is now talking in short sentences, he is jovial and happy, he is interacting with his baby brother, he is initiating pretend play, he is not watching movies anymore and instead plays interactive computer games that are helping him improve his language skills. NONE of these changes came about in the years we spent doing traditional therapies and intervention with only speech and occupational therapy.
The changes in my son have been so dramatic that after returning to school from the summer break his teacher called me astounded. she asked what in the world I had been doing with PAtrick – that he was talking and eating and playing when last year he fought at lunch and screamed whenever anyon got near him.
In regards to how he became autistic: Patrick was genetically predisposed to being a non-excretor. His body was unable to eliminate the toxins that were being absorbed through the skin, ingested in contaminated foods, and through the mercury loads he recieved from thimerosal containing vaccines. When he recieved the MMR vaccine the live virus attacked his immune system, which had been weakened by toxic overloads, and caused an entire body reaction. This reaction included; auto-immune damage, gastro intestinal damage and neurological damage. We have test results to show that he has the measles virus lining the walls of his intestines which has been causing him to not digest his foods properly and was actually causing his body to react as if it were having an allergy reaction. Since we have been treating his gasto symptoms and modifying his diet, he is improved 100%. We did not toally eliminate dairy from his diet but rather began an alternating schedule for foods. Now, instead of being a picky eater only eating foods that are white and mushy….he will eat anything that has been partially blended up. He is working on chewing, but that is a sensory issue that is coming along slower than the dietary tolerances.
In a nutshell…..my son is getting better with the help of BIOmedical intervention, whixh we have used as a supplement to the traditional therapies….not in place of. I don’t think that speech and occupation tharapies are useless, in fact i believe they are equally important. These kids are delayed, they do need extra help in learning the things that did not come naturally…but I believe that these therapies should be used in conjunction with one another according to what works best for each individual child.
All the negativity and hatefulness that I read on this thread months ago was very detrimental to any agenda. Being hateful won’t get anyone anything…accept more hate and negativity.
I really liked what another parent posted about how in the past it was medically accepted that autistic kids were the result of an abusive father or a frigid mother. Just goes to show how nothing is ever concrete. Everything changes and the truth is that the truth will prevail eventually.
I have a feeling that when the truth does come out – When the rate of autism declines dramatically in the absence of thimerosal in vaccines over the next few years – that this Kev and HN will feel utterly rediculous and will feel the burden of their own ignorance. For how many parents did their negativity scare away from action??? How many children will continue to live in a foggy brain becasue they blindly believed in Pharmaceutical Lies???
(no matter what anyone wants to say or believe in – the FED took thimerosal out of animal vaccines becasue of the risk of neuroligical damage….it was sheer neglect and medical oversight that no one stopped to think that we were injecting our own kids with this stuff)
To all those parents out there who know the truth and have the courage to do something about it…..Keep it up!! Our babies are getting better.
Google Dan Olmstead for some good eye opening information on how to compare non-vaccinated populations with the vaccinated populations of America….
***I’m ready for the hate if you insist on dishing it out….bring it on.
This message brought to you from your good friends at DAN!
_”I have a feeling that when the truth does come out – When the rate of autism declines dramatically in the absence of thimerosal in vaccines over the next few years – that this Kev and HN will feel utterly rediculous and will feel the burden of their own ignorance. For how many parents did their negativity scare away from action??? How many children will continue to live in a foggy brain becasue they blindly believed in Pharmaceutical Lies???”_
Are you an Evidence of Harm reader Brooke? In June 2005, in an interview with the New York Times David Kirby said:
_”Because autism is usually diagnosed sometime between a child’s third and fourth birthdays and thimerosal was largely removed from childhood vaccines in 2001, the incidence of autism should fall this year.”_
In an email conversation with an online blogger, Kirby also admitted it was changes in actual case numbers that mattered, not incidence.
Guess what Brooke? 2005 came and went with no lowering in case numbers. That means as Kirby says elsewhere that:
_”that would deal a severe blow to the autism-thimerosal hypothesis”_
Thiomersal didn’t cause your childs autism Brooke. Therefore chelation is useless *and* dangerous. Only today a coroners report confirmed that chelation was responsible for the death of a 5 year old autistic boy. A totally meaningless death.
My daughter is also slowly learning to speak. A recent post of mine included an MP3 of her singing ‘twinkle twinkle little star’. She uses the computer (mouse and keyboard) to play games on the BBC website. She gets invites to her school friends birthday parties and guess what Brooke – no chelation. No injections of vitamins. No Lupron. No other untested, unverified treatments that, just like chelation have never been tested.
Check the numbers in California Kev….the incedence is declining. But, even if you only choose to “quote” segements that support your own opinions the real problem in awareness comes from the fact that the government refuses to do any real studies on non-vaccinated populations in the U.S.
Dan Olmstead has done extensive research on the Amish, who do not vaccinate their children or recieve any toxic overloads from store bought contaminated foods. Intersetingly enough, there is virtually NO autism or austistic leaning children in these communities. I wonder why that is….if of course Thimerosal has nothing to do with the problem. Any why is it that no one on the pharaceutical side of the arguement is even interested in doing a study on non-vaccinated children???
Say what you want, MR. Negativity. But that child did not die from “chelation” Chelation has been practiced by doctors for over 100 years. How amazing is it that when people decide to treat autism with it, it suddenly becomes super dangerous. GIVE ME A BREAK. One child dying because of an allergy doesn’t change the fact that over 100 thousand children are safely chelating right now.
Your child doesn’t even have autism…so what’s your beef with the autism community that actually wants to do SOMETHING about the problem.
And….what you do with your own daughter is your business. But you have no right to falsly talk about a treatment that you have no first hand experience with.
I also find it interesting that there were no posts for months (5 I believe) and only after I came back and wrote about my sons improvement did youpick up your pitch fork and starty going at it again.
I’ll be back in a day or two with some numbers on the declining rates in California (a state that is actually doing sometihng about this problem)
_”heck the numbers in California Kev….the incedence is declining.”_
No, its not Brooke. Whats happening is that there’s an occassional fluctuation (both up and down) in the rate of increase. In other words, there’s still an increase but there are also quarterly fluctuations in that increase. In actual fact, California hasn’t even reached the much trumpted ‘1 in 166’ figure yet. Further, California are quite clear on the matter – their figures cannot be used to accurately reflect fluctuations in the prevalence of autism. Don’t believe me? Email them and ask.
_”Dan Olmstead has done extensive research on the Amish, who do not vaccinate their children or recieve any toxic overloads from store bought contaminated foods. Intersetingly enough, there is virtually NO autism or austistic leaning children in these communities”_
Dan Olmsted has done a minimal amount of reaserch on two communities. He is a journalist, not a scientist and thus blanked out other possibilities. The Amish don’t drive do they Brooke? Maybe cars cause autism. Maybe horses prevent it. Once again, correlation does not equal causation.
_”Say what you want, MR. Negativity. But that child did not die from “chelation—_
I think you need to read what the coroners office had to say on the matter.:
_”In layman’s terms, the administration of ethylene diamine tetra-acetate, commonly known as chelation, resulted in a lack of oxygen to the brain as well as irreversible heart damage, said Allegheny County Deputy Coroner Ed Strimlan.”_
Source.
_”Chelation has been practiced by doctors for over 100 years. How amazing is it that when people decide to treat autism with it, it suddenly becomes super dangerous. GIVE ME A BREAK.”_
Its always been pretty dangerous Brooke. Here’s a quote from the American Heart Association:
_”EDTA isn’t totally safe as a drug. There’s a real danger of kidney failure. (renal tubular necrosis). EDTA can also cause bone marrow depression, shock, low blood pressure (hypotension), convulsions, disturbances of regular heart rhythm (cardiac arrhythmias), allergic-type reactions and respiratory arrest.”_
_”In fact, *a number of deaths in the United States have been linked with chelation therapy*. Also, some people are on dialysis because of kidney failure caused, at least in part, by chelation therapy.”_
Source.
You might also be interested in DMPS Backfire.
_”One child dying because of an allergy”_
He didn’t die of an allery Brooke. He died as a direct result of the EDTA chelation he recieved.
_”doesn’t change the fact that over 100 thousand children are safely chelating right now.”_
I sincerely hope they are. I also hope they don’t come to you for advice because you literally have no clue what you’re talking about on so many issues its not even funny.
_”Your child doesn’t even have autism…so what’s your beef with the autism community that actually wants to do SOMETHING about the problem.”_
Er, my daughter is classically autistic. Kanners autism. It says so in various places all over my blog. Click the ‘colophon’ link above.
_”But you have no right to falsly talk about a treatment that you have no first hand experience with.”_
I have every right to talk about whatever I like. Just as you do – I’ll even let you run your mouth about my daughter, whom you have no first hand experience with.
_”I also find it interesting that there were no posts for months (5 I believe) and only after I came back and wrote about my sons improvement did youpick up your pitch fork and starty going at it again.”_
Brooke, you’re making yourself look foolish again. This blog is bigger than this single thread. Click the ‘archive’ link at the top for the rest of whats under your nose. This blog gets an average of approaching 1000 unique visitors _per day_. I post to it two or three times a week.
_”I’ll be back in a day or two with some numbers on the declining rates in California”_
You have an uncanny knack of not comprehending anything that appears under your nose. As I wrote above, even David Kirby, author of Evidence of Harm realises that a change in rates means nothing. Whats important is a _decline in case numbers in 3 – 5 year olds_ and it would have to be a pretty significant drop too. Email him and ask him if you don’t believe me. Thats what I did.
You really do need to stop all the blustering and posturing Brooke and start to actually research and understand the results of your research. As it stands, you’re coming off as the village idiot.
What a lovely way you have with cutting people down who disagree with you. So, I said blog instead of thread…go on and harp on the small things. The point was that this topic wasn’t addressed in months. Only when someone posted a differing opinion did you revisit it.
I’ve read some of your links. They aren’t medical facts, they are just more “opinions” that support your own. I could supply links to “opinions” that support mine viewpoint, but opinions aren’t worth much…..you should know that. What’s that saying…. “Opinons are like….
I think it is extremely amusing that becasue I say things that contradict with your views, that I am foolish. I could say the same for you…but I’m not a hypocrit. You are entitiled to your opinions….but you shouldn’t state your “opinions” as facts like you do so often. It’s misleading.
Below is a table of yearly increase in California Autism caseloads (Q4-Q4).
1993-1994: 13.06%
1994-1995: 13.02%
1995-1996: 14.71%
1996-1997: 17.28%
1997-1998: 16.23%
1998-1999: 19.05%
1999-2000: 15.86%
2000-2001: 19.36%
2001-2002: 21.28%
2002-2003: 15.34%
2003-2004: 13.08%
2004-2005: 10.72%
The numbers peaked in 1999 and in 2001. As you can see caseloads are declining…these FACTS are contrary to your OPINIONS.
I checked out the DMPS backfire website. The person who set it up is not a doctor and has no medical background. Why should I base my couses of action on anything that individual has to say?
I don’t have all the facts, that is true. I am not as well read in some areas as other people who have posted on this “bashing” blog (er, sorry…thread). But I am not afraid to stand up for what I believe and for what I KNOW is helping my child.
I WILL apologize for mistating that your child is not autistic. I read another post by another Kevin whose child was suffering from seizure activity and speech delays. For that mistake I will take responsibility. But not for anytihng else I have said.
In a nutshell; You are beligerant. You are fanatical. You have no clue how to related to people with differing ideas. It’s not anyones fault but your own if you only choose to see and quote information that backs up your own ideas of truth.
here are a few links to actual scientific data that provides evidence of thimerosals dangers….that’s SCIENTIFIC DATA, not mere opinions….
http://dx.doi.org/ (enter doi: 10.1289/ehp.7712)
Click to access 4001529a.pdf
I’ll post more tomorrow. I am a working mother….so my time is limited. I don’t sit around all day and try to tick people off who don’t like what I say, Kev.
_”I’ve read some of your links. They aren’t medical facts, they are just more “opinions†that support your own.”_
The coroners report that proves you wrong is just an opinion? No Brooke, its a fact. You were wrong. Again. Get over the fact.
_”I think it is extremely amusing that becasue I say things that contradict with your views, that I am foolish. I could say the same for you…but I’m not a hypocrit. You are entitiled to your opinions….but you shouldn’t state your “opinions†as facts like you do so often. It’s misleading.”_
The difference between mine and yours Brooke, is that mine are verifiable. Take the American Heart Association link I posted that proves you wrong. Yet again. Thats an organisation comprised of scientists who submit peer reviewed papers. There are no peer reviewed papers that support the safety or efficacy of chelation for autism. There are no peer reviewed papers that support a causative link between thiomersal and autism. Those aren’t my opionions Brooke. Those are facts.
_”The numbers peaked in 1999 and in 2001. As you can see caseloads are declining…these FACTS are contrary to your OPINIONS.”_
Can you read? The ‘opinions’ you state aren’t mine Brooke – they’re facts. Even David Kirby realises that whats important is a change in _actual number of cases_ – what don’t you get about that? And your figures (if they’re correct) demonstrate a drop off in the rate of increase – not in the total amount. Do you understand the difference? Again Brooke – don’t take my word for it. Ask David Kirby. Ask Rick Rollens. Ask California themselves. The rate of autism is still increasing – just not quite as fast last quarter if your figures are correct. I’ll quote David Kirby from an email he sent me a few days ago regarding this:
_”As for the California numbers, I think it is too early to declare a trend. The net gain in the 3-5 year old category indeed fluctuates from quarter to quarter.”_
Fluctuates Brooke. Goes up and down. Your own numbers (and the ones you left off) demonstrate that.
What aren’t you getting here?
_”I checked out the DMPS backfire website. The person who set it up is not a doctor and has no medical background. Why should I base my couses of action on anything that individual has to say?”_
It wouldn’t really matter if they were would it? You’ve totally ignored the coroners report about young Tariq I posted. You’ve totally ignored the fact that I disproved your damnfool ‘allergy’ suggestion and you totally ignored the opinions of the American heart Association regarding chelation. Feel free not to answer Brooke, I realise its difficult when you’ve been made to look foolish to acknowledge the point but stop burying your head in the sand. All you’ve proven so far is that you are incredibly ignorant on a vast range of issues.
_”I WILL apologize for mistating that your child is not autistic. I read another post by another Kevin whose child was suffering from seizure activity and speech delays.”_
Thanks very much.
_”For that mistake I will take responsibility. But not for anytihng else I have said.”_
You won’t take responsibility for anything you’ve said? Hardly surprising Brooke. I wouldn’t want to either if I was repeating such a lot of old rubbish.
_”It’s not anyones fault but your own if you only choose to see and quote information that backs up your own ideas of truth.”_
A standard definition of the word ‘true’ reveals that it means (amongst other things) *’3. Reliable; accurate’*. My ‘opinions’ as you call them, at least the ones I claim as fact, are just that – facts. An example: young Tariq dies as a direct consequence of the EDTA chelation he underwent. Thats a fact. There is no causative link between thiomersal and autism. thats another fact. However, thiomersal may or may not actually trigger autism. Thats an opinion. See the difference? The facts are verifiable. The opinions are not.
_”here are a few links to actual scientific data that provides evidence of thimerosals dangers….that’s SCIENTIFIC DATA, not mere opinions….”_
No one is disputing thiomersal is a neurotoxin Brooke. If you got off your arse enough to read the rest of my site you’ll see that I’ve said that many times. I’ve also said its a good thing its not in vaccines anymore. However, that does not mean thiomersal causes autism. And you posting links to the Hornig mouse study (which doesn’t prove thiomersal causes autism) changes nothing.
_”I’ll post more tomorrow. I am a working mother….so my time is limited. I don’t sit around all day and try to tick people off who don’t like what I say, Kev.”_
I’ll ,llook forward to it. I’m a working father who doesn’t have much spare time either but I always enjoy a good laugh.
Babbling Brooke: here are a few links to actual scientific data that provides evidence of thimerosals dangers….that’s SCIENTIFIC DATA, not mere opinions….
There is SCIENTIFIC DATA within those two studies but it is very far from evidence or proof of a connection between thimerosal and autism. Any implied connection is mere opinion.
We are in California and did have services via the Regional Center, which is how the state caseload number are determined. The Calif Reg Center dropped my child as a client when we would not submit to an illegal financial audit. I have heard this story from others in my state. Dropping children, who still are in need of services, will certainly alter the numbers — but it does not mean any reduction of the number of those children who actually have ASD.
I understand many of the points this woman, Brooke, has made. And though I don’t agree with everything she said I, nor you, have the right to personally attack her for standing up for her views (even if she doesn’t have all of her ducks in a row so to speak).
Not everyone will agree on every subject, however, in America we believe that everyone has a right to their opinions witohut fear or danger of persecution. You are apparently not farmiliar with this right.
Based on your judgemental attitude and seemingly self imposed superiority…I’ll geuss you are English? I’ll say what babbling brooke had the tact not too. You’re an ass (which has nothing to do with your ethnicity and everything to do with your inability to show compassion and tact).
Like it or not, not everyone has to agree with you or buy into the bits and pieces of “facts” that you present. There is plenty of evidence to support both sides of this issue. Unfortunately the AMA,FDA, CDC, WHO, and many others driven by power and greed, do not want the truth to be made known and suppress many articles and studies that would support the anti-thimerosal viewpoint. You may continue to buy into the rhetoric, but don’t attack those who decide not too. It’s their right.
I hope that Brooke will bow out of this blog, not because she has been beaten, but simply because it’s utterly pointless to argue with someone who thinks they already know everything.
And BTW, I’ve looked around the threads on this blog. What I see primarily is you resorting to name calling (Sue M. for one) when someone disagrees or questions your viewpoint. There are a growing number of people in America who do not believe that the federal organizations you take your information from are actually working in the best interest of the American society. Kevin Trudeau talks about this extensively, but of course you are going to call him a quack too.
At least the parents who are trying Biomed are kind in their posts and in their attempts to discuss topics…so much more than anyone can say for you.
Oh, and before you you go back to your classic “did you read what you wrote before you clicked ‘say it'”……yes, I’ve read it all.
_”And though I don’t agree with everything she said I, nor you, have the right to personally attack her for standing up for her views “_
Actually, I do. When someone comes onto _my_ property and starts making assumptions about me or my kids then I’ll do whatever the hell I like.
_”Not everyone will agree on every subject, however, in America we believe that everyone has a right to their opinions witohut fear or danger of persecution. You are apparently not farmiliar with this right.”_
Possibily the single most idiotic thing you’ve said. If you think being engaged in a debate on a blog constitutes persecution then I admire the comfortable life you must have.
_”Based on your judgemental attitude and seemingly self imposed superiority…I’ll geuss you are English?”_
That and the ‘co.uk’ in the address bar eh?
_”I’ll say what babbling brooke had the tact not too. You’re an ass (which has nothing to do with your ethnicity and everything to do with your inability to show compassion and tact).”_
I’m quite happy to be tactful and be compassionate. But not when I’m attacked. You seem to come fom an idea that its OK to give but not to recieve back what you give. I suggest familiarising yourself with the idea of personal responsibility. Or to put it more simply: don’t give it if you can’t take it.
Nice little nationalistic dig there though Lynn. I guess you often feel inferior to other countries?
_”Like it or not, not everyone has to agree with you or buy into the bits and pieces of “facts†that you present. There is plenty of evidence to support both sides of this issue. “_
There’s a difference between ‘facts’ and ‘evidence’. You may have ‘evidence’ to support your belief system but none of it constitutes fact. If you believe otherwise, I’m more than happy to discuss those things either here or on the autism/science forum I run.
_”Unfortunately the AMA,FDA, CDC, WHO, and many others driven by power and greed, do not want the truth to be made known and suppress many articles and studies that would support the anti-thimerosal viewpoint. You may continue to buy into the rhetoric, but don’t attack those who decide not too. It’s their right.”_
I’ll do whatever I choose to on my own property thanks. Personally I don’t believe in your ‘suppresion’ conspiracy theories but its your right to both believe in them and tlak about them – I’ll even let you do it on here, but don’t you dare have the temerity to tell me what I can and can’t talk about on my own property.
_”I hope that Brooke will bow out of this blog, not because she has been beaten, but simply because it’s utterly pointless to argue with someone who thinks they already know everything.”_
I don’t think I know everything Lynn. There’s a huge amount of things I don’t know. But I do know that EDTA chelation killed tariq, I do know that a lot of people who espouse your viewpoint don’t understand the difference between a fall in the rate of increase and an actual fall.
_”And BTW, I’ve looked around the threads on this blog. What I see primarily is you resorting to name calling (Sue M. for
one) when someone disagrees or questions your viewpoint.”_
You haven’t looked very far then have you? Sue again starts these things then cries off when people respond in kind.
_”Kevin Trudeau talks about this extensively, but of course you are going to call him a quack too.”_
Well, I’d never heard of the geezer until now but yeah, he seems fairly quacky to me.
_”At least the parents who are trying Biomed are kind in their posts and in their attempts to discuss topics…so much more than anyone can say for you.”_
Right. You really haven’t read much on here have you? Here’s an example of some comments by a guy by the name of John Best Jr – a Generation Rescue ‘Rescue Angel’:
_*Anyone who is not chelating to get rid of the mercury is guilty of child abuse. Every doctor who is not telling their patients to chelate is guilty of malpractice….. Any parent who listens to the doctors tell them that there is no known cause or cure for autism is too damn stupid to have kids.*_
_*Muslim terrorists who fly planes into tall buildings have a different set of beliefs than others. Your neurodiverse pals who sneeringly refer to people who try to help children as “curebies†and go to extreme measures in attempts to discredit those people are in the same class.*_
_*You spout your nonsense in much the same way that terrorists shout for Allah before they blow things up with bombs strapped to themselves. That agenda is more than a little bit wacky to most people who are thinking straight.*_
_*Your adult Asperger’s friends would have been called by a different name when I was young and nobody was aware of the effects of the mercury they’ve been shooting into us since the 1930’s. They would have been called nerds.*_
_*After you die, Kevin, whoever has guardianship for your daughter will probably take her to a doctor and cure her. Then she can go visit your grave and have the word “Asshole” etched into the stone for your allowing her to live her life with a disability that you could have cured. I think my son may write “Thanks, Dad” on my grave. That’s why I’m still writing you, Kevin. You are fucked up.*_
Thats just one guy. I have plenty more emails if you’d like to see how people on your side of the debate are always ‘kind in their debate’.
So Lynn – thanks _so_ much for your partisan blindness. I’m sure you feel better now.
Kev-
Just some food for thought…You’ve keep writing about this child who died as a result of chelation. It is very sad, but let’s not throw the baby out witht the bathwater, so to speak. Let me ask you this: How many children died last year after taking antibodics? How about after getting their immunizations? Although this child’s death is a tragedy, the death of one child doesn’t mean chelation in and of itself is dangerous. THOUSANDS (if not many more) of parents have seen improvments in their children after chelating. And for those of us who have well informed/educated doctors, it can be very safe. The majority of us (with our doctors) monitor liver and kidney functioning, overall ‘health’, and also ‘watch’ for and monitor any mineral depletion (can be seen while chelating…and these tests are done every 2 months). Most (if not all) parents who decide to use chelation therapy in treating their autistic child do not just walk into it blindly. We read, research, talk with our doctors, and make informed decisions about what is best for OUR children based on that information. I think that therapies, such as OT/PT, Speech, Behavioral, etc, are extreamly important. But I also believe that biomedical interventions have a place in the treatment of autism.
Kevin, you repeatedly mention how the AMA and scientific community does not support chelation as treatment of autism. Then there MUST be no value in it, right? That must mean that all of the parents of children with cancer are foolish for trying medications that might help their child WITHOUT the all mighty, never failing approval of the FDA? It CAN’T work if the FDA hasn’t approved it, right? If it hasn’t been accepted by the AMA, it’s gotta be crap. I’m sure you are aware of this next ‘history lesson’, but indulge me .
Ignaz Semmelweiss was a Hungarian doctor working in Vienna Hospital in the 1840s. He was appalled to see that women were dying in huge numbers after childbirth from an infectious disease (Puerperal Fever). At that time, hand washing and disinfecting medical instruments didn’t occur in hospitals (in fact, ‘germs’ hadn’t even been discovered yet…they must not have existed, since doctors didn’t publish and accept their existence). Semmelweiss believed that doctors examining the women were spreading the disease on their unwashed hands after dissecting the corpses of women who had died of the fever. He successfully cut the death rate by ordering doctors entering his ward to wash their hand in a solution of chloride of lime. This was an effective antiseptic and killed the bacteria. However Semmelweiss could not prove this, as Pasteur’s Germ Theory was not discovered for another 20 years. DAMN! It must have been total crap since it hadn’t been proven, published, and accepted. His ideas were dropped when he left Vienna Hospital in 1848 and the death rates rose again. Geee…that pesky antidotal ‘evidence’. I’m sure that it was just a coincidence. Fortunately, during the next 50 years, this CRAZY idea became accepted more and more, and mortality rates as a result of infections from childbirth and surgery decreased dramatically.
My point is this…What is TRUE today, may not be TRUE tomorrow. For those parents who are not content to just accept that this is how are children are meant to be, and to just roll over without a fight, we will do whatever we feel is BEST regardless of the AMA, CBC, and FDA, based on what WE see and know. Frankly, I’m not going to sit here waiting for someone who doesn’t give a crap about me, my family, or my child, to tell me how to treat my child’s autism. I will make my decisions NOT because of your or any other persons beliefs and insults, but based on the information I deem reliable and significant. I have no delusions of or desire to gain your ‘support’, but I feel that it’s my responsibility to let you know that there is a possibility that you DON’T know everything, and that people who’s ideas differ from yours MIGHT not be idiots.
Megan wrote: “Just some food for thought…You’ve keep writing about this child who died as a result of chelation. It is very sad, but let’s not throw the baby out witht the bathwater, so to speak. Let me ask you this: How many children died last year after taking antibodics? How about after getting their immunizations? Although this child’s death is a tragedy, the death of one child doesn’t mean chelation in and of itself is dangerous. THOUSANDS (if not many more) of parents have seen improvments in their children after chelating”
Please see some of the comments in one of the more recent of Kev’s postings at:
Unfortunately some other children have been harmed by chelation and other treatments. These are mentioned there.
_”Let me ask you this: How many children died last year after taking antibodics? How about after getting their immunizations?”_
Lots. Too many. Whats your point?
_”Although this child’s death is a tragedy, the death of one child doesn’t mean chelation in and of itself is dangerous. “_
Back upthread. Read the quote from the AHA, read some of the stuff on DMPSBackfire.
Chelation alters the chemistry of the body. In some instances thats good. In a lot of instances thats bad. Seeing as there is no verifiable causative link between mercury and autism its curious as to how chelation could help.
We are playing around with the unknown here. No-one has any clue at all what the short or long term effects on treating autistic kids with chelation may be. No safety trials have taken place for treating autistic kids with chelation.
_”THOUSANDS (if not many more) of parents have seen improvments in their children after chelating.”_
Reallly? You have a record of them all? How did you arrive at that number? How did you attribute the improvement solely to chelation? Do all those thousands only use chelation therapy?
_”Most (if not all) parents who decide to use chelation therapy in treating their autistic child do not just walk into it blindly.”_
If Brooke’s any example I’d say you’re mistaken.
_”I think that therapies, such as OT/PT, Speech, Behavioral, etc, are extreamly important.”_
Do you use these therapies in conjunction with chelation? How do you factor out their influece when deciding chelation has resulted in improvement as you say above?
_”It CAN’T work if the FDA hasn’t approved it, right? If it hasn’t been accepted by the AMA, it’s gotta be crap. I’m sure you are aware of this next ‘history lesson’, but indulge me .”_
I indulged you and its a fair point. Unfortunately its also a strawman argument – washing your hands never killed anyone Megan. Its also a logical fallacy – because Pastuer was right doesn’t confer validity on your beliefs.
_”For those parents who are not content to just accept that this is how are children are meant to be, and to just roll over without a fight,”_
Who are these parents content to roll over without a fight? I don’t know of any.
_”Frankly, I’m not going to sit here waiting for someone who doesn’t give a crap about me, my family, or my child, to tell me how to treat my child’s autism.”_
Where did I tell you how to treat your childs autism?
_”but I feel that it’s my responsibility to let you know that there is a possibility that you DON’T know everything, and that people who’s ideas differ from yours MIGHT not be idiots.”_
Its a stone cold certainty I don’t know everything and I’ve never claimed otherwise. Likewise you may well be right. Its extremely doubtful and not supported by any real evidence but – you know – keep on believing.
You know I was wondering where all these extra people suddenly came from. The Yahoo chelatingkids2 group is the answer. Welcome across all. Civil debate is encouraged but get nasty with me and expect the same in return.
Lynn, “Based on your judgemental attitude and seemingly self imposed superiority…I’ll geuss you are English?”
Bigotry, Trudeau worship, scientific misunderstandings and anger. Nice.
Hey, Bart….
I’m not a bigot and if you had read the rest of the paragraph, you’d know that. I have several friend from Britain and all of them acknowledge these statements as accurate. of course not true for every Englishman, but in Kev’s case…quite on The mark.
And as for Trudeau Worship…..Trudeau isn’t a god, no one ever said he was. He’s just another man who refuses to continually buy into the garbage that OUR (yes ours is so much more screwed up than yours – hows that for bigotry, lol) society tries to feed us. I don’t believe in all that he says, just like I don’t buy into the crap that Kev is selling either. however, there is logic in what he talk about and if you weed through the crap, you can find some good valid information.
Jeez, you guys are so easily riled up. Quite amusing.
And For KEV,
it is not necessary for you to repetitively regurgitate you perspective…..anyone can read it over and over in consecutive posts by you. It only takes one or two sentences to tell someone you don’t agree with them. See, I did it in one. It’s that easy.
About personal attacks;
I was as astounded and angered as I’m sure you were when I saw the post from one man starting with “after you die, Kevin” was totally out of line. I admit that. But, the person I made reference to was not that man. I references Sue M. and Brooke. Neither of them made personal attacks at you before you began to . I think that all Brooke said was that she was concerned that your “opinion” would have a negative impact of parents seeking options. And she admitted that she was mistaken about your child not being autistic…so why do you feel the need to attack and slander her?
Just because you have the ability doesn’t mean you necessarily have the right. That goes for many different topics.
_”But, the person I made reference to was not that man. I references Sue M. and Brooke.”_
No it wasn’t Lynn – you said:
_”At least the parents who are trying Biomed”_
So I replied proving you wrong.
_”I think that all Brooke said was that she was concerned that your “opinion†would have a negative impact of parents seeking options. And she admitted that she was mistaken about your child not being autistic…so why do you feel the need to attack and slander her?”_
You obviously haven’t read the whole thread. Please do so. As far as Sue goes, again you quite clearly haven’t read every comment she makes. If you’d like me to point out what you can’t be bothered to find yourself I’d be happy to.
I’m not one to be absuive unless I’m first attacked. After that, the gloves come off. If you or anyone else has an issue with that then – tough.
_”Just because you have the ability doesn’t mean you necessarily have the right”_
Actually – I do. You can deal with that, or not. Your choice.
As for your personal opinion of me. Its hurt me to my very core but I guess I’ll just have to try to struggle through the rest of my life coping with your disaproval.
“I’m not a bigot”
“I have several friend from Britain”
Oh, then I stand corrected.
/rolls eyes
“yes ours is so much more screwed up than yours – hows that for bigotry, lol) society”
Nice assumption. I’m an american although I’ll state that I’m first generation, so the John Wayne/Lynn-ness hasn’t permeated my aura… just yet. Got my fingers crossed.
I’m really struggling to figure out how your comments are relative, in any way, to the original post. And after re-reading what you wrote I have to say that I give up – you can find me in the science forum.
The Thimerosal-Autism link is not a scientific issue. It’s at least 5000 articles that blames thimerosal for autism and other NDs. I must say i pitty your child ‘Kev’ for having a father so ignorant and not capable of seeing something so incredible obvious. I suggest you read the science, and you can start with reading the study the CDC epidemiologist Tom Verstraeten presented on the secret Simpsonwood conference, not the manipulated version. I hope you one day understand the obvious facts. You just hope that it will not be too late for your daughter.
“The Thimerosal-Autism link is not a scientific issue. ”
Exactly. There has been no valid science to link thimerosal to autism.
” It’s at least 5000 articles that blames thimerosal for autism and other NDs.”
I’m sorry but newspaper and blog articles don’t count… and neither do papers printed in “Medical Hypotheses” (which will print anything as long as you pay them enough.
By the way a check of http://www.pubmed.gov with the terms “thimerosal autism” brings up a total 59 hits (these are research articles, letters, editorial and reviews). If Mr. Pearson was trying to refer to actual science papers, he was off by a couple of decimal points.
Anyway, here are a couple of abstracts of the more recent cites indexed in PubMed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15858952&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_DocSum
and
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15957237&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_DocSum
And here is an actual paper:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/115/1/200
Though I am at at a loss of what this has to do with Rashid Buttar and his multi-faceted business of taking money from sick people for his promise of cures for a variety of ailments. From cancer to aging. Or the fact that his “Toxicology Certification” is from a group dedicated to find patients to chelate whether they need or not!
The REAL toxicologists are here:
http://www.acmt.net/main/ …Which has a directory at http://www.acmt.net/directory/ where you can look up their members (with all the criteria set at “all” you get 244 hits). Rashid Buttar was NOT among them.
Another interesting group is this: http://www.toxicology.org/ … They do not allow access to their directory, but they have a LONG list of people willing to talk to the media:
http://www.toxicology.org/ai/news/newsmedia.asp … Buttar (who likes to talk to congressmen) was not on that list.
By the way, there is also an American College of Toxicology. Their journal deals with lots of animal studies. Here is their page where I found the other two organizations:
http://www.actox.org/general/links.htm
_”It’s at least 5000 articles that blames thimerosal for autism and other NDs.”_
Really? I heard it was 5001.
In amongst those 5000 Matthew, did you happen across any science that indicates a causative link between thiomersal and autism? Or maybe just a good English primer?
Don’t think I’m impressed with your “5000 articles”, Mr. Pearson. If you really had a strong case, you would need only one. Not that you gave references for any of them, so technically, you gave use zero articles.
“In amongst those 5000 Matthew, did you happen across any science that indicates a causative link between thiomersal and autism?”
Yes, the science is rather overwhelming to be honest. If you bothered to read the REAL science, and not just nodd to the pharamaceutical propaganda, you should really be able to change your mind. I recommend following sites:
The unreleased Tom Verstraeten study: [url]http://209.245.59.30/Gimme/84823685/1087030207/63140316/B731D00E-5289-41AE-A471-F6931B9ECF4E/0.380591/3/Verstraetencdcunreleasedstudy2000.pdf[/url]
[url]http://uninformedconsent.com[/url]
[url]http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/thimstudys.htm[/url]
And why don’t take a peek of what are happening inside your daughter’s brain [url]http://www.iaomt.org/[/url]
I personally recommend the work of Dr. Boyd Haley and Dr. Mark and David Geier. Take a serious read on the studys of the Geiers’ about the testosterone aspect of autism spectrum disorder.
AltCorp is Boyd Haley’s business… he promotes chelation in it to put cash into his wallet. It is not real science, it is marketing.
Mark and David Geier also do not do real science (and their papers were among the 59 listed in PubMed). Their company, MedCon, makes money by working for lawyers.
You really need to look at the conflict of interests. Because those are just not real science.
Dear God, not the testosterone-binds-thimerosal hypothesis. Good one Matthew. Way to cherry pick the worst of the worst. If those are your best examples of real science don’t expect too many changed minds here.
Serious read….as if.
As a patient of Dr. Buttar’s, I didn’t hear him promise any cures as you say “business of taking money from sick people for his promise of cures for a variety of ailments”. His patients that are getting better from their “variety” of ailments are singing his praises! He doesn’t promise anything but delivers everything that his patients pray for and brag about. Bottom line is that his patients are feeling better and it’s killing you, isn’t it? It’s too bad that jealous physicians sitting behind desks are wasting time slamming Dr. Buttar instead of getting out there and actually healing people. What a waste of energy. To be that jealous is really ugly on you.
Who are these jealous physicians? And how do we know he delivers on these “promises”?
So far we’ve seen the website of one cancer patient who has not improved.
Why won’t Buttar be part of any scientific evaluation of his methods?
Lynne – I’m not a physician. Neither have I seen any evidence for any of his ‘patients’ either recovering from cancer, becoming younger or not being autistic.
Lynn D?
Kev,
Where did you look for the “evidence”? So you’ve only looked on the web for results? It’s obvious that you’ve not persosnally met with or talked to any of his patients. if you had, you would have all the evidence you seek.
So why don’t you provide us with this “evidence”? Especially since he seems very reluctant to provide it himself. So far all we’ve seen has had a homeopathic quality — lots of bluff but very little substance.
As HN says Lynn – cure our ignoble ignorance: show us the evidence.