There’s new legal paperwork up at Brian Deer’s personal site. It reveals some very interesting facts about two things: First that Andrew Wakefield is instructing his legal team to use his Libel action against Brain Deer as a ‘gagging order’ and secondly that Andrew Wakefield is obviously getting extremely nervous about the effect his GMC hearing will have on his Libel case.
There are three separate actions involving Andrew Wakefield and Brian Deer. One is between Wakefield and the Sunday Times, the other between Wakefield and Brain Deer personally (in respect of his website) and a third one (the one under discussion here) between Wakefield and Channel 4/Twenty twenty Productions.
The ruling judge in this case first said that it was certain that the outcome of just one of these actions would determine the outcome of the others as all three rest on the exact same subject matter. [edit – not sure I got that exactly right – if anyone reads it and comes to a different conclusion, please let me know]
Andrew Wakefield has applied for a ‘stay’ in this case (the C4/2020 one). This means he essentially wants to put this action ‘on hold’. He wants to do this because he claims that the GMC case has seniority over this one. Justice Eady remained distinctly unimpressed with this argument:
In the light of this timescale, it is impossible to envisage the trial of these libel proceedings taking place before the Michaelmas term of 2007. Much of the evidence relating to the issue of justification relates to the mid-90s and a delay of that kind would be plainly undesirable. It would, moreover, involve a gap of three years between the broadcast in question and the trial. That is beyond what is normally regarded as acceptable in the modern climate for the span of a libel action between publication and trial – even in a complicated case…
In British law it is part of the case to consider that a Libel action should be acted on as hastily as possible as the defendant may have good need to clear their name – people like Brian Deer for example who, as an investigative journalist, needs to be trusted to be employable.
So why would Wakefield wish to grant a stay to after the GMC hearing? Because he wants to ‘test the water’ with the GMC action which at most can strip him of his license – a minor inconvenience for one who’s already making a living in Texas – whereas a libel action can strip him of a hell of a lot more. I’m guessing that when things go bad for him and the GMC strip him of his license that all other actions will be quietly dropped.
However, even though he has asking for a stay of this particular action Andrew Wakefield is not above using it as a weapon to browbeat people:
These factors loom even larger in the present case in the light of certain conduct on the Claimant’s part which Miss Page has prayed in aid. It is her case that *the Claimant is seeking to take full advantage of the fact that he has issued libel proceedings while avoiding any detailed public scrutiny of the underlying merits*. In other words, she argues, he is seeking to adopt a strategy comparable to that generally characterised by the phrase “a gagging writâ€. It is necessary to consider these allegations in a little further detail.
A few of you may remember that Wakefield took part in their original Power of Parents rally in the US during which he read an extract of a statement in which a small British paper (the Cambridge Evening News) backed down from a report it had made about Wakefield. Obviously the American parents lapped it up to riotous applause. However, what had _actually_ happened is that Wakefield had instructed his legal team to threaten the Cambridge Evening News with an action like that he had over the Sunday Times:
“You should be aware that proceedings in defamation have already been commenced against The Sunday Times in respect of the article published by Mr Brian Deer on 22nd February 2004. Your article has gone even further than the allegation in The Sunday Times which are currently being litigated and allege impropriety on the part of Mr Wakefield to receive money from lawyers to achieve a predetermined outcome.â€
Justice Eady took exception to this:
In my view that paragraph was misleading. Mr Browne (Wakefield’s QC) argues that, even if the circumstances had been set out more fully and accurately, it would have made no difference to the outcome. The editor would still have acknowledged that he had got his facts wrong. That may be, but the important point at the moment is that the editor was given a misleading impression. Because of the stay, to which I have referred, the allegations in The Sunday Times were certainly not “currently being litigatedâ€. They were stayed pending the outcome of serious allegations of professional misconduct against the Claimant, to which no reference was made. It thus appears that the Claimant wishes to use the existence of the libel proceedings for public relations purposes, and to deter other critics, while at the same time isolating himself from the “downside†of such litigation, in having to answer a substantial defence of justification.
And there’s more: Dr Evan Harris MP had criticised Wakefield on a radio programme. He also got a letter:
“[Mr Andrew Wakefield] has asked us to inform you that defamation proceedings have been instituted against Mr Brian Deer and The Sunday Times newspaper in relation to articles that have been appeared [sic] and statements that have been made by them which are defamatory of [him]………..Mr Wakefield has drawn our attention to a number of statements made by you in connection with Mr Wakefield and the question of MMR both in newspapers and in BBC broadcast programme……Given … the fact of litigation having been instituted in defamation and the existence of the General Medical Council inquiry we hope you will agree that further comment on Mr Wakefield’s conduct by you or anyone else should be limited until the outcome of those proceedings has been determined. This will avoid Mr Wakefield having to consider further legal proceedings at the present timeâ€.
Justice Eady took a grave view of this too:
I regard that as a threat that libel proceedings will be issued against Dr Harris unless he “limits†any further comment – not in itself objectionable. On the other hand, the threat is backed up by reference to litigation against The Sunday Times and Mr Deer which, by the date of the letter, had already been stayed. The implication is that for rather vague “sub judice†reasons it would not be appropriate to comment until the proceedings have been determined. At that stage none of the libel actions was “active†within the meaning of the schedule to the Contempt of Court Act 1981 and there was accordingly no reason why Dr Harris should not comment further, if he wished to do so, subject always to the constraints of defamation. Again, one sees the same pattern. The Claimant wishes to use the proceedings for tactical or public relations advantage without revealing that they have been put on the back burner.
And, incredibly, Wakefield also instructed his team to go after the Dept. of Health:
“…In the circumstances Mr Wakefield is concerned and surprised to note that your official website on behalf of the Department of Health offers links not only to Mr Deer’s own website, but also the Channel 4 website on the programme. It seems extraordinary to us and wholly wrong that the Government’s official organ should direct website visitors to another site which not only records partisan and hotly disputed opinions on the subject but is also the subject of defamation proceedings. You will appreciate our grave concern that this fact appears to suggest that Government offers this subject matter official weight and authority.”
This letter is intended to provide formal written warning that the links provided to these two websites are allowing the dissemination of defamatory material. Since this is so you are now invited to withdraw the Department of Health link to these two websites forthwith given that this is an inappropriate use of Governmental weight and authority in such a controversial areaâ€.
Just as a side note I find it incredible that anyone should try and go after a website which links to Brian Deer’s. For their further legal presumption I’d like to present a list of sites that link to Brian Deer’s. I await your issue of a writ against Wikipedia and Google with interest.
Anyway, back to Justice Eady:
I am quite satisfied, therefore, that the Claimant wished to extract whatever advantage he could from the existence of the proceedings while not wishing to progress them or to give the Defendants an opportunity of meeting the claims. It seems to me that these are inconsistent positions to adopt. This conduct is a powerful factor to be weighed in the exercise of the court’s discretion in circumstances which are clearly unique.
And indeed so powerful that Justice Eady ruled that:
I have come to the conclusion, bearing all these considerations in mind, that the interests of the administration of justice require that the Channel 4 proceedings should not be stayed pending the outcome of the GMC proceedings. I appreciate that there will be an increased workload for the Claimant’s advisers, but I do not have any reason to suppose that the firm is incapable of absorbing that extra burden. It is, after all, their client who chose to issue these proceedings and to use them, as I have described above, as a weapon in his attempts to close down discussion and debate over an important public issue. (I note that separate teams of counsel are instructed for the GMC proceedings and the defamation claims.)
So far as the website proceedings are concerned, I see no advantage in those continuing in parallel. There is a significant overlap. I am persuaded that this overlap is so significant, in relation to the defamation proceedings (unlike the GMC disciplinary process), that the outcome of the Channel 4 proceedings is likely to be in practical terms determinative of the others. Mr Deer acts in person in the website proceedings, and a very considerable burden would be placed upon his shoulders if he had to progress that litigation in parallel to the other action, in which he has the advantage of legal representation. Indeed, it may well be that there is a whiff of tactics in the Claimant’s change of stance, whereby he wished to have the website proceedings continue – but only provided there was no stay of the Channel 4 litigation. This is borne out by the suggestion that, before the Claimant should serve his reply, Mr Deer should be obliged to serve a defence in the website proceedings. That proposal has all the hallmarks of a tactical ploy to put Mr Deer at a disadvantage. It would have the effect of isolating him. I am not prepared to go along with that.
Its not looking good for Andrew Wakefield. He’s now been exposed as a bully who likes to threaten with what he has no intention of pursuing. He’s also looking like he’s beginning to realise that he has no chance of escaping the GMC hearings unscathed. Hopefully all those who like to bandy around legal action as a threat will see that a hot head often gets regretted when the facts are examined.
Left Brain Right Brain 
I’m beginning to wonder whether it was all worth it for him to start with. If he’s had to resort to activities amounting essentially to wasting the Courts’ time, then it’s clear that he has no plan of any sort to do anything beyond shouting people down.
This suggests that he is not confident of a number of things, including – I would say – the GMC hearing.
Bully, yes; but not one with a great many friends to protect him.
Eventually, it will be publicly and (I hope) painfully made clear that Wakefield is full of crap. I wish him much humiliation in the process.
Unfortunately, all the children who developed a serious disease because the parents were too afraid to have them vaccinated (note that measles and mumps can both be fatal, and while rubella normally isn’t fatal when contracted by a child, when contracted by a pregnant woman it can have extremely serious side effects in the developing fetus) had to suffer for it, and I have no doubt that some parents will continue to believe the nonsense that the MMR vaccine causes autism.
In other words, a great deal of damage has been done already. The genii is out of the bottle.
Causing that amount of damage for the sake of profit has got to be among the lowest of acts. I wish the man nothing except for what he has sown to be returned to him until he’s so sick of the foul harvest he chokes on it.
bonni: “Causing that amount of damage for the sake of profit has got to be among the lowest of acts. I wish the man nothing except for what he has sown to be returned to him until he’s so sick of the foul harvest he chokes on it.”
Many people do this sort of thing, sadly. But when it is someone who has medical training, well… what’s that phrase from the Hippocratic Oath? “Do no harm” …..?
I have to say that I wonder how guilty that sort of practitioner feels, knowing that they engage in less than honourable practice. I don’t think that Wakefield has any sense of guilt… if he had, this whole mercury thing would never have gotten to be as big as it is.
So,
Do I get a letter from Wakers if I post a link to this blog entry?
(rolls eyes)
Ms Clark – you don’t get a letter from him, you get a letter from his legal team. We are not worthy of letters from Wakers himself.
Perhaps this could be made into some sort of competition; different categories for prizes:
– “greatest number of threatening letters received from Dr. Wakefield’s legal team”
– “greatest misuse of legalese in a letter from Dr. Wakefield’s legal team”
– “most childish, immature and nonsensical insult that still got a letter from Dr. Wakefield’s legal team”
For someone with nothing to hide, Wakefield acts an awful lot like someone who has a lot to hide.
The death agony of the anti-MMR campaign
Having started out blaming MMR for causing an epidemic of autism, campaigners are now reduced to the absurd claim that it causes a number of cases too small to measure by epidemiological methods.
JB Jr is now banned – I’ve also removed all his comments plus the ones that alluded to his comments from this thread.
Aw….
But he was getting to be a pain. Even *I* was getting bored wi’ him.
Thanks.
clone3g: “Having started out blaming MMR for causing an epidemic of autism, campaigners are now reduced to the absurd claim that it causes a number of cases too small to measure by epidemiological methods.”
Which begs the question, doesn’t it, of: if this “epidemic” is too small to be picked up by methods *designed to pick up on precisely that sort of thing*, then what the hell are they doing calling it an epidemic?
Well, thats another load of IP’s added to the banned list. And another load of meaningless drivel from JBJr deleted.
Just for the record JB Handley is *not* banned – unless he was one of the brave souls posting anonymously whos IP I just banned. Doesn’t seem like his style though.
I reverse-look-up’d all the IP addresses by the way and all the ISP’s concerned have the full details residing in their abuse inbox.
Someone (I wonder who?) just wrote – ‘You’re not very tolerant of opposing views. That weakens your position.’
To my ‘unknown’ commenter: I have absolutely no issue with opposing views. Go to any thread you care to visit and you’ll find oodles of them.
What I object to is out and out abusive posting that adds nothing to the debate. When a persons sole contribution to a debate does not touch on the subject matter under discussion and actually consists of nothing but abuse then that is totally worthless and therefore pointless.
If you or anyone else wants to debate the topic under discussion without resorting to abusive and personal name calling then be my guest. Otherwise, go and join the rest of the kids in the playground.
My son recovered from autism using the DAN! protocol. Why do you angry people spend so much time bashing others? Why not use your time doing something productive?
Do you have anything pertinent to add Karolyn? Something about the subject under discussion maybe?
What is pertinent is that a lawyer paid a medical researcher to get specific results to help support a lawsuit in the UK. He even provided the test subjects… 12 children who were subjected to invasive test procedures that would NEVER have been allowed under any ethical protocals for human test subjects. (I live near a very large research university. Two of my children have participated in various research studies, from seeing the reaction of an infant and toddler to lines on a board to check eyesight to a very long involved one where one boy and I have been interviewed several times during his middle school years to see what typical childhood development is during those trying years… they ALL require us parents to read and agree to procedures, even though none of these were invasive).
This researcher published a paper… the newspapers totally misinterpreted it (helped along by the researcher)… and the uptake of the MMR vaccine went down to a level where herd immunity was compromised. It resulted in stories like this:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1061838,00.html
Then a bunch of clueless folks in the USA got a hold of the story, and started to blame the “thimerosal in MMR”… There has NEVER been any thimerosal in the MMR, a vaccine that started to be used in the UK in 1988, BUT had been in use in the USA since 1971.
It should be noted that the UK switched to the American version because of deficits in the mumps factor, switching from the Urabe strain to the Jeryl Lynn strain, http://www.who.int/vaccines/en/mumps.shtml . In addition to the tragic story of the boys in the transplant group becoming permanently disabled due to measles… the UK is presently going through an epidemic of mumps in adolescents and young adults. Mumps has been going through sport teams and colleges in the past few years because these people were not adequately vaccinated against mumps AND the herd immunity has diminished due to the actions of Wakefield and his lawyers. This is an age group that is particurly vulnerable to the one very common side effect of mumps, sterility.
This has NOTHING to do with autism or the DAN! “doctors” (by the way, many are not real doctors, a check of the list will find many chiropractors and “naturapractic doctors” who have no real medical training). It has to do with the effects of lawyers (and any money-grubbing medical practicioner they can drag along) attempting to make medical decisions… with some terrible effects.
Prometheus, what in the world do you find so threatening about me? [If I didn’t know better, I’d think you were Dr. Jim Laidler here in Portland.]
Such rancor, and then spreading false rumors about my being banned? I think an apology for spreading false rumors would be due.
Anyway, as I have said many times, I have no issues with Kevin. (BTW, Kevin, my “rules of engagement” for a debate were written well before I knew more details about your daughter’s autism. You are free to post on our blog and I will happily debate you, no rules beyond refraining from Ad Hominem and focusing on the issues.)
So, for this group of cynics and doubters, I ask the following:
1. Have any of you read Martha Herbert’s latest study about large brains and autism? If not, please do and feel free to comment. She basically refutes the notion that autistic brains are wired differently and notes they are both inflamed and under severe oxidative stress. Here’s a summary:
This study helps refute the notion that the brains of autistic children are simply wired differently and notes, “neuroinflammation appears to be present in autistic brain tissue from childhood through adulthood.” Dr. Herbert suggests that chronic disease or an external environmental source (like heavy metals) may be causing the inflammation. Excerpt:
“Oxidative stress, brain inflammation, and microgliosis have been much documented in association with toxic exposures including various heavy metals…the awareness that the brain as well as medical conditions of children with autism may be conditioned by chronic biomedical abnormalities such as inflammation opens the possibility that meaningful biomedical interventions may be possible well past the window of maximal neuroplasticity in early childhood because the basis for assuming that all deficits can be attributed to fixed early developmental alterations in neural architecture has now been undermined.”
Dr. Herbert is at Harvard. I believe she is Cambridge educated, but I’m not sure.
Kev, after you read her study, does it impact how you look at your daughter and the cause of her autism? If not, why not?
I have chosen to post here because I think Kevin is an honest man and a good father. Like my son, his daughter changed after the DPT. So you know, Kevin, here’s why:
In immuno-surpressed children (due to Hg), the tetanus toxin in DPT creates lesions in the intestinal wall. The lesions in the wall impair the gut and cause inflammation. The inflammation impairs the bodies ability to manufacture B12. WIthout B12, the body’s ability to perform proper methylation is impaired. WIthout proper methylation, glutathione is not manufactured, heavy metals build up, and cell to cell communication is interrupted, causing a build up in white matter in the brain and severe inflammation. With severe inflammation, brain functioning changes, and “autistic” behaviors start to manifest.
An interesting case example is my son. Supplementation with B12 has shown some amazing changes in our kids. However, it is very difficult to get B12 into the body, because most of these children have impaired guts. So, Dr. Neubrander innovated a few years ago to put B12 in a shot form. For some kids, the results have been dramatic. Not for my son. We gave him B12 for a year and saw no benefit through the shots. A month ago, we switched to B12 through a nasal mist…
Within 12 hours of the nasal mist, my son went from “echoics” of about 5% to 100%. Within 2 days, his tacts per 2 hour session went from 5 to more than 75 (meaning he said 75 words appropriately and unprompted). His ABA therapists (we have been doing ABA since September), who have been working with children for more than 10 years, said they have never seen anything like this and the only possible explanation is biomedical because the change was too dramatic.
So, that’s Jamie today.[ Kev, if you’d like to hear him talk for yourself, email me privately and I will arrange it] Does this prove mercury caused my son’s autism? No. Does it show that biomedical interventions work? I sure think so. Do I think you should do a B12 trial with Megan? Yes, I do, I think it is 100% safe.
I’m sharing this with you out of respect and a desire to see every parent have the chance to treat their children for what ails them.
Also, if you can’t refrain from an Ad Hominem attack, please don’t bother posting. It really does nothing to move an important debate forward. The constant attemps to co-mingle statements other people make and me does not address the points I am making. I continue to post here, despite the hostility and abuse, because I am certain that these children get way, way better if properly treated. That is a debate worth having!!
Warmly,
JB Handley
Do you mean this “Study”?
Large Brains in Autism
That’s a Review JB. As long as you want to cop to being a “Just a father” and “Not a scientist”, you may want to avoid the temptation to interpret scientific publications including those that attempt to interpret other research.
So you understand, Dr. Herbert hasn’t observed oxidative stress and microgliosis in the brains of persons with autism, she’s observed that these things have been observed by other scientists. She correctly observes: “Oxidative stress, brain inflammation, and microgliosis have been much documented in association with toxic exposures including various heavy metals” but she forgets to mention that these things are observed at much higher exposure levels than can be found in vaccines as supported by the recent Burbacher study that failed to find oxidative stress, brain inflammation, and microgliosis in primates injected with thimerosal.
The rest of your narrative is too bizarre to address.
Hey Clone:
They sacrificed the chimps soon after they injected them with mercury, not years later.
I have no interest in avoiding reading or interpreting scientific literature, my son’s life is at stake.
I tire of the arrogance of people claiming to be scientists. If you are one of those, what exactly, and I mean exactly, are your credentials that put you in a position of knowledge or authority?
JB
Then it takes years for these things to occur? I guess that disqualifies all of the anecdotes of regressions following vaccination.
Why should I provide credentials? Are you or are you not impressed by scientists? What exactly, and I mean exactly, (LOL) is it that put you in a position of knowledge or authority?
Hey Clone:
What do you think causes autism? And I mean, what exactly do you think?
JB
I don’t know.
Oh man, topics are getting switched mighty fast here.
JBinc, Firstly, understand that I truly hesistated putting the “inc” on, because if someone put that on my name I’d consider it an insult – did someone call you that and now you’re using it for fun?
Secondly, congrats on the B12 progress. I guess the whole chelation thing is pretty much rot, eh? A B12 metabolic disorder is pretty tough – glad you found your cure.
Hey B.C.:
Not to worry, we continue to chelate my son, closely monitoring his excretion levels, seeing tons of metals pouring out and recording many other gains.
As Deth has shown, the B12 impairment is triggred by Thimerosal/Hg, so I guess you could say that all of our kids have this “metabolic disorder.”
In our case, the B12 triggered language. Chelation has produced many gains of which I have provided detail on this blog, often in the areas of physical health.
Why disparage something you do not understand?
JB
Oh, and B.C., the Inc. was done in jest.
JBinc
annonannie said: As Deth has shown, the B12 impairment is triggred by Thimerosal/Hg
Has he? Might you share that bit of research with us?
Surely you don’t mean this:
Activation of methionine synthase by insulin-like growth factor-1 and dopamine: a target for neurodevelopmental toxins and thimerosal.
Mol Psychiatry. 2004 Apr;9(4):358-70.
Care to break that down for us so we can understand the B12 impairment part?
I am serious and don’t call me Shirley
I repeat again… The MMR vaccine does not have and has never HAD any thimerosal in it. It would be incredibly silly to “chelate” for something the MMR _never_ had!:
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/autism/autism-research.htm#10
The controversy of MMR has to do with Andrew Wakefield being paid to find specific results to help with a lawsuit.
No one has yet to replicate Wakefield’s finding anywhere… BUT there have been several paper written that show the MMR is not a cause of autism nor of inflammatory bowel disease:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15364187
and
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/2/259
and
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/347/19/1477
and
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11231801&dopt=Abstract
and
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11055248&dopt=Abstract
Because of Wakefield and the lawyer… there has been a drop of MMR uptake in the UK, resulting in an outbreak of mumps in the population most likely to become sterile from it (young adults) and this tragic story:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1061838,00.html
… and stories like this:
http://www.metrokc.gov/health/news/05112201.htm
and
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5445a5.htm … remember measles is only an airplane ride away.
Here ya go:
Deth’s research has uncovered evidence thimerosal creates deficits in the D4 receptor-mediated phospholipids methylation essential for detoxification and sustaining attention to tasks. The research provides the first scientific link between attention deficits and autism. Deth has identified the metabolic process, called methylation, whereby thimerosal can cause the brain damage associated with autism. When Deth exposed human neuronal cells to low doses of thimerosal, the chemical activity called methylation dropped significantly.
Deth believes the dramatic rise in autism and ADHD cases in recent years can be blamed on mercury poisoning due to vaccine-related thimerosal exposure.[1] “During the first years of life networks of neurons that represent the matrix for learning are being developed in the brain,” says Deth. “Methylation and the development of neuronal cells to create these networks are critical during this time. If the process is interrupted, the ability to learn and pay attention would naturally be impaired.[“http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20041113/bob8.asp]
An enzyme critical to methylation, methionine synthase, uses an active form of vitamin B12 to complete its chemical function, according to Deth. Thimerosal interferes with the conversion of dietary forms of B12 into the active form and so impedes DNA methylation and disrupts some normal gene actions.I
Deth has found that insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) and the neurotransmitter dopamine both stimulated folate-dependent methylation pathways in neuronal cells, while compounds like thimerosal, ethanol and metals (like lead and mercury) effectively inhibited these same biochemical pathways at concentrations that are typically found following vaccination or other sources of exposure.
“Taken together,” Deth has said, “increased exposure to thimerosal has combined with genetic risk factors in a sensitive subpopulation to cause the recent rise in autism…. This molecular understanding should lead to new and improved treatments for autism and should provide a scientifically sound basis for the removal of thimerosal from all vaccines.”
Click to access Testimony%20%20Deth.pdf
This is his congressional testimony where he specifically addresses B12. So, please take back your ignorant sarcasm. Perhaps you could call Deth and he can help you.
This is what is so annoying about the people who post here. You are quick to be sarcastic, despite often having no clue what you are talking about.
Any of you guys call me Francis . . .
By the way, Ken, can’t ya just post in your name? Clone3 is so yesterday . . .
JB
Clone3g/Wikiser said :Has he? Might you share that bit of research with us?
JB Says:
Here’s Deth’s latest study. Before you type more of your arrogant, know-it-all, I’m a scientist BS, it would be helpful to actually know your shit.
Glutathione-dependent Synthesis of Methylcobalamin: A Target for Neurodevelopmental Toxins (Pilot Project Award)
Richard Deth, Ph.D., Northeastern University
While the exact cause of autism is not yet known, research during the past several years has focused on the possibility that many cases of autism result from exposure to the ethylmercury-containing vaccine preservative thimerosal. A subgroup of exposed individuals may be less able to detoxify and eliminate heavy metals, placing them at higher risk. Previous work from our lab has shown that thimerosal and other heavy metals potently inhibit an enzyme that uses vitamin B12, and that this inhibition could lead to developmental disorders like autism. Thimerosal interferes with the process that converts dietary B12 to its active form, known as methylB12. MethylB12 has proven to be quite helpful in treating autism, which reinforces the idea that impaired methyl B12 synthesis may be an important contributing cause. Thus this project will investigate the biochemical pathway that makes methylB12 and will elucidate the mechanism by which thimerosal causes its inhibition. It will also compare the thimerosal susceptibility of this pathway in cells from siblings who did or did not develop autism. Preliminary results suggest that the autistic children’s cells show greater sensitivity. Results from this study will help to clarify what causes autism and what makes one child more likely to develop autism than another.
Give your child B12, it will help.
If anything I’ve written is “too bizarre”, just underline the big words and I will help you out.
Do you smell something burning? I think that’s your butt.
JB
Hey Bartholomew:
Here’s Deth’s Bio.
http://www.pharmsci.neu.edu/faculty/deth.html
Does he qualify as a scientist? Or are you disqualified the minute you note mercury and autism may be related?
You, BC, said: Secondly, congrats on the B12 progress. I guess the whole chelation thing is pretty much rot, eh? A B12 metabolic disorder is pretty tough – glad you found your cure.
I say:
Hopefully, Deth has taught you that B12, mercury, and autism are inter-related. That’s why so many of us are chelating while supplementing with B12 and that’s why our kids are getting better, your sarcastic [and ignorant] BS notwithstanding.
All of you scientists may want to go back to school. If little ol’ parents like me get this stuff, why can’t you?
JB
JB
“Senator, I served with clone3g. I knew clone3g. clone3g was a friend of mine. Senator, you’re no clone3g.” – Lloyd Bentsen in 1988 I believe.
You and I just had a polite email exchange and after just giving the kids a bath and putting them to bed, I was setting in to read the 3 papers you had sent me. You just blew it. Every time I think you’re moving away from Best-iality, you pull something like this.
I’m not clone3g, but I wish I was – the guy is damn smart and he, like you’re so fond of saying, is not a scientist, but just a parent.
PS – clone3g, thanks for the heads up about this thread.
Count me in, the militia’s threats involving my employer are going to have the opposite effect. Let’s do it.
Kev, It’s your call of course, but I’m asking for some latitude here. I see that the topic was Wakefield’s problems but it seems to have got off course in a big way. Between Gretchen H. in the last thread pulling punches and then running away, and then JB throwing slime here, I can only surmise that dishonesty and pettiness can rule the day if they’re not met head on. So I’ll need some time. Even though JGood (and militia copycats) will likely chime in with his usual adorable self, I’m asking that you not shut this thread down.
Thanks.
JB I’m home and not checking email so don’t waste ATP and electrons sending an apology – this will be done in public.
I think Deth’s on a Holiday, I’ll call Joe Black.
Glad you could explain it in your own words. So of course the results of this pilot study are in and show that methionine synthetase is indeed inactivated in persons with autism and it is inactivated by an atom of mercury gumming up each molecule of the enzyme? Spectacular. I can’t wait to read the full study. Now when will this be published?
Oh, does thimerosal also shutdown IGF-1 production or just block it from activating methionine synthetase?
Try to keep in mind that Deth thinks thimerosal causes autism and is trying to support the hypothesis with in vitro experiments and hyperbole. He has a long way to go before he can show that thimerosal is the only agent able to interfere with these pathways. Before that he needs to show that the pathways are disrupted in exactly this way in autistic subjects. I wish him luck.
Thanks for identifying that smell. I thought it was the ozone oxidising children from the inside.
I’m sure Jamie’s word explosion within 12 hours of nasal B12 was a stunning coincidence. Heck, why dwell on case studies, they are just part of reality and what fun is that when you can play scientist?
Whatever you do, don’t try B12 on your child – it might actually help!! (Then, you’d have to thank Deth rather than demonizing him)
jb
JB
You cut/paste wikipedia (written by… hmmm) and congressional testimony and come off like that’s understanding science?
Then you go further by barking out his CAN press release for the grand he received from the organization? Are you serious? We’re supposed to sit back and throw our hands up in the air?
Who’s at the top of the CAN ladder? By GR’s own criteria (can’t trust anyone who takes a penny from a possibly interested party) Deth’s research is out of the equation. Further, given his solid record of science and publications, his lab was rightly well funded by NIH through 1998 (from NIH CRISP). But then no NIH money. Then a change over toward thimerosal research. Enter militia conspiracy mode. Could it be that the government conspiracy (all 100’s of 1000’s that are in on the secret, from custodians to secretaries to scientists at NIH and any big pharma company) shot his funding requests down after almost 15 years of continuous funding? The conspiracy thing is getting complicated. But now there’s autismmedia interviews and CAN money. Hmmmm.
I’ll let it slide though, JB – apply the GR militia criteria for the epidemiology and waive it for Deth’s paper. I ask for one thing only – spare me the ignorant press releases, the Ollie North congressional testimony, and wikipedia propaganda. Stick to the primary literature.
So let’s say Deth, Hornig, and Burbacher. What am I thinking – let’s do the papers you sent me too. Confidential – yeah, whatever.
I’ll start.
— one Methylcobalamin ‘recovery’ example, as documented, here:
http://www.childrenscornerschool.com/video/gina_add_MeB12.wmv
JB, If you want to dance with clone3g you’ll have to look him in the eye. Topic changing leads to bruised toes.
Getting in over one’s head with the science leads to bruised egos.
chelate for many months then try a spray with tremendous results. It can’t be the spray itself, right?
JB, how have you ruled out a mercury-independent B12 metabolic deficiency?
PS – has anyone tried spraying buttar’s butter in their nose?
hollywoodjaded
re: “recovery”
bravo.
hand in glove
shoplifters of the world
luvd the irroneous inaccuracies 😉
JB Ok, so I’m back and just read, paper 1: The association between genetic polymorphisms of coproporphyrinogen oxidase and an atypical porphyrinogenic response to mercury exposure in humans
Woods SJ et al. 2005
caveat- this is the first time I’ve read it and I have not read any papers that may or may not contradict this one.
Technically the group seems very solid. I even like the idea of this paper and how they went about getting sample. So ~15% of those dentists surveyed have abnormal urine porphyrin concentration. So I wonder what is the % of dentists who smoke. This was not addressed (controlled for) in this study. There are a bunch of other parameters that would have been interesting to compare as well (obesity, diabetes, diet, alcoholism – anything that might impact urine).
Also, I always wonder about why authors choose a particular journal over others. This one can be explained with figure 5. Figure 5b is a textbook example of what should never, never pass peer review. Forget the fact that it’s already stated in 5a. Forget the fact that I was preparing myself for the slam dunk piece of evidence with figure 5 only to realize what an amazing amount of noise is present.
The concept of using porphoryn excretion as a biomarker is very interesting but I’m not impressed with the data. I suspect that you included this to support the Nataf R, et al. unpublished work. That’ll be next.
Porphyrinurias Induced by Mercury and Other Metals, Fowler BA, 2001. This is a tech highlight / review, not a data paper – skipping this one.
Back to autism. On to Nataf et al.
All:
You have absolutely no responsibility to treat your children. Please, don’t let me stop you. Our children are physically sick. We have more than 400 doctors treating our kids for what ails them, more than 10,000 parents helping their kids. They are getting better, my son included.
The one thing I can promise you is that I will never, ever stop talking about this. The ads will continue. Am I certain that mercury is the root cause? Yes. Does removing mercury from these children make them better? Yes. Do I think a cover-up happened? Absolutely!
And this, KW, is where you and I, I suppose, differ (one of many ways). You see, my Dad spent 30 years in the CIA. He taught me many things, and one of them is how cover-ups happen and how FEW people it takes to engineer one. There weren’t thousands of people working on the Verstraeten study, there were a few. A few who decided to throw 1 and 2 year olds into the analysis and add a bankrupt HMO until the correlation went away. That’s all it takes. Now, the data is lost and no researcher can independently confirm it. When the Geiers tried, they became idiots. When Clarkson began to, the numbers were so bad, they shut him down. When the IOM began to review data, they noted privately that they would NEVER come down on the side of correlation. If you really, really can’t see that, so be it. Thank God we have whistle-blower laws.
If it really took thousands of people to engineer a cover-up, we wouldn’t have any in our history, and yet we have many.
Chelation, diet, supplementation, Methly B12, GSH – these things make our kids better. If you are sitting on the sideline, unwilling to consider such remedies, what in the freak are you so afraid of? If your child was anything like mine, it’s worth it to try.
My son was 100% non-functioning. Today, the opposite. He’s gotten better every month.
The bitter, bitter irony of this epidemic is that a bunch of smart people, who love their children very, very deeply become mortal enemies (in terms of their beliefs).
Since GR started, we think more than 5,000 additional families have begun to treat their children. We receive emails every day from families, 3-5 months into it, reporting huge gains from treatment. In many cases, these are older kids who were plateauing or declining. These parents didn’t wait, they didn’t believe normal development would allow their children to function in our world. For Christ’s sake, we have 10 year old kids who can’t even talk! And now they have hope and kids recovering. That’s the sole reason why we exist.
When GR started, I really never imagined there would be parents of autistic children who would oppose our message. So you do. You love your children as much as I/we do, and we disagree profoundly. I choose to post here, despite all the abuse, because I believe that some of you are listening.
“I’m sure this won’t be the last Eureka we hear from you ”
You are right about that. You see, I’ve been blessed with many because that’s what getting the mercury out of my son has allowed for – a ton of gains.
The day will come, not that far off, when one side will clearly be shown to be right and the other wrong. I look forward to connecting with all of you then.
JB
JB said, “The bitter, bitter irony of this epidemic is that a bunch of smart people, who love their children very, very deeply become mortal enemies (in terms of their beliefs).”
Don’t you feel that you have had a role in this? Be honest, I can only imagine there are quote gurus waiting in the cheap seats.
“My son was 100% non-functioning. Today, the opposite. He’s gotten better every month.”
wow
“The day will come, not that far off, when one side will clearly be shown to be right and the other wrong. I look forward to connecting with all of you then.”
I have to wonder what you’re going to do if you’re on the wrong side, or if in fact you find that you’re only partially right? There are grays out there. To think that one knows enough to make a black/white call is to understand the brain completely – that will not happen in our lifetime.
Since it appears that this one-sided scientific discussion is now complete, good night.
Kev, sorry about the beer cans.
Exactly what part of “the MMR vaccine _never_ contained thimerosal” do you fail to understand? Why would anyone think that chelating for something NOT even in the MMR vaccine be in anyway helpful?
Do you really believe that we should have our medical policy and treatment options put in place by attorneys? Like the attorneys who paid Wakefield for specific results (even providing the dozen test subjects, children who were subjected to unethical invasive tests)…
What part of this do you NOT understand?
JKW: To think that one knows enough to make a black/white call is to understand the brain completely – that will not happen in our lifetime.
If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn’t.
-Lyall Watson
Right, I’m going to try and tackle these in order but before I do – JB, you laud my honesty but then you usurp a number of other regulars usernames. I’m trying to answer you in the right spirit and I would find it easier if you could avoid doing things like this. Post anonymously or under your own name but using others names or derivatives of others names isn’t acting in good faith.
_”Kev, after you read her study, does it impact how you look at your daughter and the cause of her autism? If not, why not?”_
I read this review yesterday and I didn’t take any inference that autistics brains are not ‘not wired differently’. I read that they are of a equitable size to non-autistic brains but I certainly see no conflict here.
_”So I’ll need some time. Even though JGood (and militia copycats) will likely chime in with his usual adorable self, I’m asking that you not shut this thread down.”_
Not a problem Ken. It’ll stay open.
_”The bitter, bitter irony of this epidemic is that a bunch of smart people, who love their children very, very deeply become mortal enemies (in terms of their beliefs).”_
Mortal enemies? A tad melodramtic JB. I’m on good relations with a number of people from the Biomed side, including as I’ve said before 3 Rescue Angels.
Unfortunately what causes a lot of grief for those of us on ‘my’ side of this debate is the absolutism and dependance on very shaky science from ‘your’ side. I’m afraid that all autism is not mercury posioning caused by thiomersal – thats simply a fact and I’m bewildered as to why you continue to claim otherwise JB. Seriously, I’m not being facetious. I really don’t get it. There are documented diagnosis of autism from Victorian Britian – how can these be attributable to thiomersal?
If you could simply see that autism is more than just a bad reaction to mercury then I think a lot of the bad feeling between ‘you’ and ‘me’ would evaporate.
_” I choose to post here, despite all the abuse, because I believe that some of you are listening.”_
All of us listen JB – what we find annoying is your inability to hear what we say. You want to deal in absolutes as that would make things easier but life is simply not like that. There are almost certainly numerous cuauses and triggers for autism, some of which are environmental and some of which may be mercury based – but thiomersal is quite clearly *not the sole trigger*. In fact all the available evidence indicates it not being a trigger at all.
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.” – Bertrand Russell
hollywoodjaded :
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.†– Bertrand Russell
Damn it! Now I have to figure out which category I fit.
Here, clone3g, this may help:
Half my life’s in books’ written pages.
Live and learn from fools and from sages.
You know it’s tru-u-u-u-u-u-ue,
All the things come back to you.
Sing with me – sing for the year –
Sing for the laughter and sing for the tear.
… there, there; all bettter now?
Kevin:
I will certainly refrain from changing my sign in name, per your request. As always, I sign my own name. It’s my way of protesting something I find very disagreeable, anonymous posting. I think everyone should either be anonymous or everyone should be posting in their own name, as you do.
By the way, while we’re on Internet ethics:
– Was it ethical for you to email me privately and post it on your blog without asking me?
– Was it ethical for JP to copy information from a private discussion group, put it in a letter, and send it to an individuals employer? I guess we’ll let the SD Attorney General decide.
All the best,
JB
JB
Calling yourself “cloneg” or using my name and employer as a handle won’t fix anonymous posting, especially when you start blaming the wrong person for troubling you. I actually came around late last night and got happy that you called me clone3g. You might well have said, “JKW – I think you’re clone3g and you make me angry because you know so much about this issue – it’s frustrating and it’s not fair and I just want to cry and ..” Ok, maybe the crying part is getting a little carried away but you get the idea.
I’m not familiar with the case you mention, but the AG deals with law, not someone’s ethics unless a law was broken. I’m not sure what law may have been broken, but I have to wonder if the MN militia memebers, facilitated by Craig Westover, will be charged over harrassing a St. Paul woman over her crime of, *gasp* having an opinion that didn’t parrot their own. Will Gretchen H. and the copycats be charged when my IT dept gets pinged with nastgrams? I’m quite interested in this. Ok, I’m not really interested but I’ll use it if I’m really bored and actually get curious about the identity of my harrasser.
Americans – Happy W Day and *hat tip* to our English grandparents – GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!
JB,
If you’d like to contact the South Dakota Attorney General’s office, here’s the applicable contact information.
http://www.state.sd.us/attorney/
SD Attorney General’s Office Address:
Office of the Attorney General
500 East Capitol Ave.
Pierre, SD 57501-5070
Phone (Routine Business): (605) 773-3215
Fax: (605) 773-4106
E-mail: atghelp@state.sd.us
I’ve met Larry Long before. Seems like a decent enough guy. Actually, if you spend enough time in this state you’ll meet just about every public official – it’s that kind of place.
Ken:
So I guess you support what JP did?
JP, feel free to explain. I may disagree with many of you, but I promise you I will not be hassling your employers.
Best,
JB