For some time now, John (aka ForeSam to the uninitiated) has been crying that he’s been banned from this blog and been using that ban as an excuse. I’ve decided to call his bluff.
For this thread, and this thread only, John will be free to argue, debate, insult, rage, pontificate and generally be the John Best we know and love.
In this thread will be discussing the following:
1) John’s belief that Eli Lilly invented autism in 1931. John says autism did not exist before Jan 1st 1931.
2) John’s belief that all autism is mercury poisoning from thiomersal in vaccines.
3) John’s belief that there was no autism in China prior to 1999. John says autism did not exist in China until Jan 1st 1999.
4) John’s role as speaker at mercury militia marches and his position with Generation Rescue
5) John’s opinion on homosexuality, which he believes is ‘a perversion’, and his subsequent opinion of David Kirby.
6) John’s belief that as an adult male, fist fighting with his eight year old autistic son is a sign of good parenting.
7) John’s belief that there has been an epidemic of autism.
8) John’s belief that because Dan Olmsted didn’t find any autistic Amish, this proves thiomersal causes autism.
9) John’s belief that it is acceptable to state that women he disagree’s with should be ‘horsewhipped’
10) John’s belief that phoning people he disagree’s with at their homes to abuse with them is acceptable.
11) John’s belief that the word ‘muslim’ is interchangable with the word ‘terrorist’.
Go for it. Either now, or wait for the man himself to defend himself. Just remember that John is typical member of the thiomersal/autim connection. I of course am open to correction on that from other believers of the thiomersal/autism connection along with an explanation of why.
Also remember John is a fully ‘paid up’ Generation Rescue Rescue Angel and his views on _all_ the above should be taken as representative of that organisation, unless of course, anyone from that org would like to deny John’s involvement with them on record.
Left Brain Right Brain 
John,
“Your 19th century autistics had genetic autism not MP.”
Ok, so we’ve got that out of the way. Autism is not always mercury poisoning. Turn in your Generation Rescue membership card and commemorative t-shirt.
“The proof is that Kanner told us it did not exist.”
Tell me how you know that what Kanner saw was different than “genetic autism”. Because Kanner sure as hell didn’t.
John/Fore Sam,
Your assertion that Kanner was describing a new disorder doesn’t hold water once you read the actual text of his 1943 article. I quote:
“Since 1938, there have come to our attention a number of children whose condition differs so markedly and uniquely from anything reported so far, that each case merits – and, I hope, will eventually receive – a detailed consideration of its fascinating peculiarities.” (italics mine)
Nowhere in his article does Kanner say that these children’s condition had never been observed before, just not reported. I know that this may be a terribly subtle difference for someone who – like yourself – is irrevocably wedded to a false dogma and not too knowledgeable about science, but it is a significant distinction.
Just like the scientists who discover new species – often “hiding” in plain sight – the importance is in recognizing that these children – who had previously worn the “tag” of childhood schizophrenia or mental retardation – were fundamentally different from other children with that “tag”.
There is a useful lesson to be learned from this in reference to the present day. While autism was felt to be a rare disorder, it was rarely diagnosed. Once a few researchers reported that it was more common than previously thought, it was seen more and more often. This is your “autism epidemic”, John, not some hyped conspiracy theory about mercury, vaccines and “Big Pharma”.
Prometheus.
The autistics in China vaccinated before 1999,
(I’m assuming that they all had access to vaccines and that their parents were wise and loving and wanted to keep their children safe from vaccine preventable diseases and that there was no contraindication for their particular children to get vaccinated)
didn’t get thimerosal containing vaccines. So the girl I met and the girl from the website didn’t get TCV’s (WMDs).
Isn’t that the whole point of your “there was no autism in China before 1999” rant (misdirection or lie).
You have admitted that non-mercury poisoning related autism was around before 1931, then it suddenly disappeared and was replaced by MP which looks nothing at all like Mercury poisoning, contrary to the non-peer reviewed, desperate ramblings of Sally (who has 2 different names for some reason) Bernard. That paper is coo-coo.
Speaking of the financial and housing status of “trailer dwelling coo-coos,” John B. … how about John S, of whale.to where does he live? I think he might have been who Lenny was thinking of when Lenny wrote that he didn’t want any “red herring antivaxers” on the EoHarm list, but lo and behold, there he is on the EoHarm list… the guy who thinks there is a consipricay between Jews and Jesuits or something to run the world. I wonder how many Jesuits are antivax? Just curious.
Did China email you back? I can translate if they answered in Chinese.
And now you say you have problems, inherited, with mercury excretion, but we should be listening to you, someone who must have a rotted brain, by your own definition? Just like we should listen to John S who is worried about the CIA using cell phone towers for mind control (get out your tin foil thought screen helmet). Just like Lenny who (rumor has it) won’t admit who his adopted son is.
” It looks like 5 out of 6 tolerate it. The rest are somehow affected.”
If that was anywhere near true than Autism rates would be over 20% of every vaccinated population.
Yet as you yourself said:
“If the autism is the same now as it was in 1880, how come we don’t have posthumous descriptions for 1 in 166 people from 1880?”
So what is the prevalance John (if you don’t know the correct meanings and/or spellings of any of the above mentioned words I suggest you – finally- get a dictionary).
John, I think your understanding of Kanner’s work comes from Dan Olmsted’s newspaper articles. If you read Kanner’s series of papers on autism, you will see that he did not think it was new and that he thought it was inherited. Furthermore, he thought that environment played a role in outcome, in that his subjects who were institutionalized fared worse than those who were not.
“This girl was born in China. The family had not been here that long, maybe 3 or 4 years. It’s unlikely that the family still lives here”
“A few years later I met an Egyptian family that had an autistic son, he was born in Egypt and came here at about age 3, he had twin little brothers also born in Egypt. When I met them the autistic boy was close to 4.—-”
Section 341 of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 imposed certain vaccination requirements on all persons seeking green cards in the U.S. These requirements apply to persons seeking to adjust their status to permanent residence in the U.S. as well as to those who apply for immigrant visas to enter the U.S. if the application was filed after September 30, 1996. It does not apply to persons applying for nonimmigrant (temporary) visas.
The law requires that would-be immigrants be vaccinated against the following diseases: Mumps, measles, rubella (“German measles”), polio, tetanus and diphtheria toxoids, pertussis, influenza type b, hepatitis B, and any other “vaccine preventable” diseases that may be recommended by the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices (ACIP) of the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). The ACIP guidelines also include varicella, haemophilus influenza type B and pneumococcal vaccines.
From Part 2: The Age of Autism: The Amish anomaly
“”Unfortunately our autistic daughter — who’s doing very well, she’s been diagnosed with very, very severe autism — is adopted from China, and so she would have had all her vaccines in China before we got her, and then she had most of her vaccines given to her in the United States before we got her.”
Most likely the children that you met from Egypt and China, received vaccinations here (the United States ) because of the length of time you say they spent here.
KC, as long as you’re quoting “The Amish Anomaly”, you’re aware that there is autism in the Amish population, right?
Prometheus;
It wasn’t reported because it didn’t exist. How could the whole world have missed train wrecks? Sure, Kanner was wrong on his guesses about the origin of autism. Like I said earlier, that wasn’t known with certainty until Geier proved it 3 years ago. Of course, Bernard and Holmes were in the forefront of pointing it out to everyone before that.
Kanner recognized the difference between fragile X and retts as different from MP. He just didn’t know the cause. With MP muddying the waters, people probably just assumed all autism was fragile X until the numbers started to skyrocket. Now thanks to Holmes, Cutler and the wonderful doctors of DAN, our train wreck kids are starting to return to the human race. Isn’t that a great reason to smile Prometheus, when some parent can announce that his kid has emerged from the horrible abyss of autism and can join his old man on the golf course! You should be rejoicing that a phenomenal scientist like Dr Holmes showed us the way! I thtink she should get a Nobel prize for her work!!!
Kevin;
I just don’t have the time to go through all your links. You must be right. I must’ve been foolish to say there was no autism in China before 1999. That’s what I heard someplace and I was dumb enough to believe it rather than checking with Neurodiverse Nation to see if I had my facts straight. I have tried many times to find more information about China, especially Liz Birt’s claim that there was now 5 million cases. I have no idea where she found that but it seems like she was not a liar so I’ll believe her. That’s one hell of a jump in a couple of years since I first heard the 1.8 million to be at 5 million 2 years later. I hope the DAN people going there later this year will come back with a better handle on those numbers and let us all know. In the meantime, I guess you can call me an idiot for not having a valid report to give you.
And, I don’t even care because I shot even par today on a course I had never seen before. Now I just have to check for value with horses running this weekend.
Prometheus said,
“Nowhere in his article does Kanner say that these children’s condition had never been observed before, just not reported.”
Tosh.
John,
You are referring to Dr. Amy Holmes, of Holmes, Blaxill and Haley, I assume? The same “researchers” who found that the hair of autistic children had the “average” amount of mercury and the hair of “typical” children had over ten times the national average? If she is a “scientist”, then I am the Pope.
As far as missing “train wrecks”, I assume that “train wreck” is your offensive little term for autistic people? I suppose someone needs to tell you that this is an offensive way to refer to your child, let alone other people’s children. And you’re wrong – of course. Nothing new there – or have you found the 5 new million autistic Chinese children, yet?
Back in the days of Kanner, there were a number of facilities euphemistically called “institutions” where children who had what was then called “childhood schizophrenia” were often placed. These children were not missed, John, they were simply called something else until many years after Leo Kanner’s paper was published.
If that is a hard concept for you to grasp, John, then maybe you should consider the possibility that the whole issue – autism, mercury, etc. – is beyond your understanding. That’s sure how it looks on my side of the screen.
Prometheus
John,
Now you’re just becoming a parody of yourself.
Besides, we all know you play from the women’s tees.
Kevin,
I believe that these children were all vaccinated in their home countries. The Chinese girl was not adopted like the Chinese girl in the Dan “shoot’em up with gold salts” Olmsted article was. If the child is adopted there might be problems with keeping track of vaccine records.
The Egyptian boy didn’t suddenly change when he got to the US. duh. His parents, who I went to talk to after 9-11 to see if they were being harassed for being Muslim (she wore a head covering all the time, I figured she might get harassed)… never thought that he had suddendly regressed after a vaccine. The little brothers were more likely to get vaccinated here, but that was 2001, so maybe they didn’t get TCV’s (WMD’s) here in California. At any rate, the autistic boy would have had his baby shots in Egypt.
Your insistence on vaccines as being the cause of all autism is just fascinating.
Off topic, but I can’t post this to EoHarm without losing my ability to motior the talk coming from various antivaxers on the EoHarm list (which is not supposed to have red herring antivaxers on it).
“Offit stated that the USA Today 6000% CDC ad was financed by the same people who did the same thing with breast plant litigation – meaning the trial lawyers and their supporters and organizations, like ATLA.
The statement is false and a slander of Gen Rescue and all
organizations listed on the ad, A-CHAMP, NAA, MAMA, and others.
Offit should be made to retract his slander.
The debate in this presentation insulting – and assumes that thimerosal has no relationship to neurodevelopmental disorders. I did enjoy the critque of Offit’s book. Offits spends most of his book showing the defects in the manufacture of the polio vaccine in 1955 and then blames the lawyers for all problems.”
The above quote comes from Bob Krakow mercury dad and lawyer. He is entirely misquoting Offit who said that the lying GR ad which had the psychotic number “6000” to represent that increase in “kanner autism” or whatever it said. Lawyer Krakow says that Offit said the ad was funded by the same people who funded a breast implant ad… or something. What Offit plainly said was the name of the ad agency or PR firm hired to make the ad or whatever they PR firms do. Duh, lawyer Krakow. Now who needs to retract what? I can’t remember the name of the ad agency/PR firm or whatever it was that Offit named… but it wasn’t “trial lawyers”. Good grief, these people are desperate to sling mud aren’t they? And Lenny says folks like me are “fifth column” and implies that we are being paid by the CDC. Psychosis is spreading.
How could the whole world have missed train wrecks?
How’d they miss you?
Oh, the previous was addressed to Kevin Champagne who once accused me of being anti-Islam and tried to get a group of muslim women to come harass me at my blog. That was interesting. They didn’t cooperate for some reason, maybe they are “5th columnists” paid by the CDC… you never know.
If my memory serves, the name Offit said was “Fenton” or “Fenton group” who he said was behind the breast implant PR or something like that. I don’t follow the PR world. We could ask David Kirby.
I got the URL for the CSPAN video of Offit et al speaking from Wade’s post to EoHarm.
I hope Offit can get an apology from Krakow.
Prometheus;
How could Kanner, as one of the leading people in the field, not know of the institutionalized train wrecks? He knew he was looking at something different from those train wrecks. Those train wrecks were probably fragile X or fetal alcohol syndrome or kicked in the head by horses. I don’t think there was much genetic research going on in the 1940’s so nobody had a clue what caused autism.
I can’t find fault with someone calling my kid a train wreck. His doctor called him a vegetable. I couldn’t argue with him. But now, thanks to that great Dr Holmes, he’s only like a train crash that didn’t leave the track. No doctor would call him a vegetable now. I think that’s something to celebrate! Let’s celebrate the improvement, not the neurodiversity.
_”Tosh.”_
The paper’s right here.
In the opening paragraph Kanner writes:
_”Since 1938 there have come to our attention a number of children whose condition differs so markedly and uniquely from anything *reported* so far…”_
Would you like to retract your ‘tosh’ now? No? Lets turn to page 26 of that PDF where Kanner says:
_”These characteristics form a unique syndrome not heretofore *reported* which seems to be rare enough yet is probably more frequent than is indicated by the paucity of *observed* cases.”_
and John – whats this…surely not ‘diagnostic substitution’??? Surely not autism _misdiagnosed as something else_ ???
_”….and two had previously been described as schizophrenic.”_
Kanner also says….
_”the children of our group have all shown their extreme aloneness from *the very beginning* of life”_
So, not after a few months like one would expect if something like oh I dunno….a vaccine….had caused their autism but from the very beginning of life. Kanner referred to them at the end of his paper as _inborn_.
Thus speaks the man John that you call the ‘expert’.
_”Your 19th century autistics had genetic autism not MP.”_
So you’re now deftly attempting to switch from your stated position that all autism is caused by mercury poisoning and that autism was invented by Eli Lilly in 1931 to one where there is something called ‘genetic autism’ and ‘mercury induced autism’.
How nice you can finally see that. And how nice we have it somewhere you can’t delete.
_”I just don’t have the time to go through all your links. You must be right. I must’ve been foolish to say there was no autism in China before 1999.”_
Hey, look at that! Two for two! You’ve now admitted you were wrong that autism was invented by Eli Lilly in 1931 and you’ve also admitted you were wrong to state there was no autism in China prior to 1999. In fact, its three for three as you’ve also defaultly acknowledged that all autism is not caused by mercury poisoning.
OK, lets move on to #4
*John’s role as speaker at mercury militia marches and his position with Generation Rescue*
John got up to speak at (I believe) the first mercury militia rally and spoke of his work with Generation Rescue.
John?
“Your insistence on vaccines as being the cause of all autism is just fascinating.”
I never said that I believe that all autism is do to vaccines.
“Oh, the previous was addressed to Kevin Champagne who once accused me of being anti-Islam and tried to get a group of muslim women to come harass me at my blog. That was interesting. They didn’t cooperate for some reason, maybe they are “5th columnists†paid by the CDC… you never know.”
Not exactly what happened but you go ahead and remember it the way you want to.
Is it me or is Kev appearing more and more desperate as the months go on? I wonder why?
“Your insistence on vaccines as being the cause of all autism is just fascinating.â€
Your insistence on vaccines “not” having anything to do with autism at all is what’s trully fascinating.
Ms. Clark wrote:
“I hope Offit can get an apology from Krakow”.
– The mere thought of that is hilarious, Ms. Clark. As if Krakow would need to apologize to Offit… Did you not notice that within 5 minutes of Krakow’s post, someone corrected him. Then, minutes later Krakow agreed that she was correct and he had been incorrect in his previous statement? So, what’s your issue again? Stop fiddling.
Kev;
I don’t know anything about the hierarchy of GR. I’m just a guy who volunteered to be a rescue angel. I know, I’m not much like an angel but I have helped some parents get pointed in the right direction to help kids. The speaking I’ve done was mostly before GR was formed. Someone asked me to speak at a rally who was not associated with GR. I don’t know where she had heard of me. I’m just as politically incorrect when I speak as I am on these blogs so I wouldn’t choose me to be a spokesman either. However, people always cheered for what I said so I must not have been that bad.
MP is not autism. It’s a misdiagnosis. Fragile X is now known as a genetic problem so that’s also a bad term as is Rett’s. Autism was coined when nobody knew the cause so it probably should not be used anymore. However, for convenience, I’m sure the word autism describes the symptoms so it’s all just splitting hairs. The autism that should be called MP didn’t exist until Eli Lilly invented it. You haven’t proved otherwise because you can’t give a reason why any person prior to1931 was autistic. We’ll get better information on China someday and they’ll be jumping all over us when they figure out we poisoned them with thimerosal. Maybe that’ll start WWIII.
_”Is it me or is Kev appearing more and more desperate as the months go on? “_
Yes, its you.
_”MP is not autism”_
You heard it here first folks :o)
I’m having trouble understanding why we need to know why something was (autism) but mr. best doesn’t see the need to PROVE his ascertation. Hey wait! No one knows for sure the cause of autism, but it’s looking mightily genetic (theres, I think, 6 or 7 genes in the OMIM listing). Not mercury. Not shots. Not living by a fishery. GENETICS.
Put up or shut up, Mr. Best. You have no proof. Kids supposedly recovering isn’t “proof”, there’s huge placebo effect in treatment-of-autism studies.
Real proof. Admit you don’t have it, or put it forward.
(off new topic)
Sue M. wrote “Did you not notice that within 5 minutes of Krakow’s post, someone corrected him. Then, minutes later Krakow agreed that she was correct and he had been incorrect in his previous statement? So, what’s your issue again? Stop fiddling”
No I haven’t been back to check on what was on EoHarm. I’m glad that lawyer Krakow retracted his way out there silly statement. Paul Offit is not Satan, Sue. I know it’s hard for you to get that into your head, but he’s not Satan.
Kevin C, you did go to a blog that was frequented by Muslim women and posted that I had said something anti-muslim, which was actually a comment on Buttar. They didn’t come post comment on my blog.
Note:
It looks like Blaxill took his daughter to see Wakefield back prior to 2000 and there was a scoping done, but it also looks like his daughter (who he describes as having a “top tier head size like her father’s”) wasn’t one of the originial 12 who were in Wakefield’s original study, though there was an American among them.
There’s some comments from Blaxill on ambd from back in 2001 or so where he quotes some epidemiological studies from China done on autism in the mid 1990’s and earlier. Funny.
Ms. Clark wrote:
“No I haven’t been back to check on what was on EoHarm. I’m glad that lawyer Krakow retracted his way out there silly statement. Paul Offit is not Satan, Sue. I know it’s hard for you to get that into your head, but he’s not Satan”.
– He actually retracted it about 30 minutes after he posted it which was a few hours BEFORE you made your error. On to Offit, I don’t necessarily believe that Offit is Satan (although if you look hard enough it is possible that I have made such comments:)… I just think that he is very sure of his belief and won’t listen to reason. He is probably sheltering himself with people who believe like him and calls the rest of us freaks and psychos. He really needs to listen because he’s wrong… very wrong…
Sue M. I just think that he is very sure of his belief and won’t listen to reason. He is probably sheltering himself with people who believe like him and calls the rest of us freaks and psychos. He really needs to listen because he’s wrong… very wrong…
Sue, you’ve just described every mercury parent I’ve ever met.
“I just think that he is very sure of his belief and won’t listen to reason.”
Projecting Sue?
Methinks you much more of a bleever than Offit. He openly acknowledges the risks (including death) associated with vaccination, while you refuse to acknowledge the risks of infectious disease, let alone consider any social responsibility. – “My herd is my family”
Clone wrote:
“Sue, you’ve just described every mercury parent I’ve ever met”.
– How many mercury parents have you met, Clone?
Dad wrote:
“Methinks you much more of a bleever than Offit. He openly acknowledges the risks (including death) associated with vaccination, while you refuse to acknowledge the risks of infectious disease, let alone consider any social responsibility. – “My herd is my familyâ€
– Dad, you neglect to mention the fact that Offit sees the risks as being these totally rare events blah, blah, blah. He refuses to acknowledge that vaccines could have anything to do with autism nor does he show any interest in researching the issue further. He is not trustworthy. I, on the other hand, understand that there are infectious diseases out there which could be dangerous (certainly not flu or Hep B for God’s sake)… and I understand that I need to research each and every vaccine that I would give my child to see if the risk/reward warrants giving the vaccine. Simple. It’s called common sense. Get some. I’m sorry if the comment about my family is my herd was offensive to you. Get over it.
Sue M, How many mercury parents have you met?
Enough. You’ve met one you’ve met them all.
Sue, the problem is that your risk/reward analysis is determined by selfish, ignorant, means. And I truly have no problem with that, I don’t dictate your ethics. But you live in society…and ah forget it.
Kevin, can you host a Pro infectious disease thread for Sue M next? This is distracting from JBJr.
Here’s where Kassiane left off:
“Put up or shut up, Mr. Best. You have no proof. Kids supposedly recovering isn’t “proofâ€, there’s huge placebo effect in treatment-of-autism studies.
Real proof. Admit you don’t have it, or put it forward.”
Kev;
That’s right, MP isn’t autism. Do you think the medical profesion will admit that someday? Kanner would’ve called it MP too if he had figured it out.
Kassiane and DOC;
Geier gave us proof. Bill Frist gace us proof. Verstraeten gave us proof. Haley gave us proof. Deth gave us proof. So did Holmes, Bernard, Cutler and every parent who has cured their kid. Curing autism IS proof. All you dopes who had genetic testing done and found nothing there can add your names to those sane and caring parents who gave us more proof by getting your heads out of your asses and helping your kids instead of letting them rot. Arguing in favor of letting children rot is not intelligent. It would behoove you who think that way to call Generation Rescue right now and have a rescue angel help you. I don’t mind helping kids who have idiots for parents and I think most other rescue angels feel the same way.
Dad wrote:
“Sue, the problem is that your risk/reward analysis is determined by selfish, ignorant, means. And I truly have no problem with that, I don’t dictate your ethics. But you live in society…and ah forget it”.
– So, I can assume that you got the flu shot for your son, right. I mean for the good of society you should have. Do you know that there are a bunch of old people who die of the flu each year, by not vaccinating your child, Dad, you have put them at risk… so did you do it?
Sue,
When I saw Krakow’s post there weren’t any resposnses. A few minutes later, maybe a half hour maximum… I posted it here. I think you are confused by the times shown your Yahoo! email or website, and the time shown here… we have different time zones on this earth. That must be what is confusing you.
Still, it’s pretty funny the Krakow jumped to that conclusion and went on EoHarm spewing such a patently false statement without bothering to check the facts..sure sounds like par for the course among mercury parents.
Sue, so you are saying that under certain conditions you would vaccinate your kids… real world, likely conditions not like, “yeah when an angel appears to me and tells me that Offit is not Satan…” that sort of thing?
Won’t you lose your membership to the antivax club for saying that?
As far as I can tell, very few, a very very small percent of the parents are claiming to have cured their child, and none of the parents are “the biggies” which is funny, because it’s only “the biggies” where you can hope to get a good description of the child before he was cured.
Bernard, Redwood and Blaxill, none of them have “cured” a child of their own. Amazing. They’ve done everything to those kids from the sound of it. Blaxill claims little gains for his daughter from Secretin, mostly in her bowel movements.
Bernard’s son looks like he has a genetic disorder or something that happened in embryonic development. Blaxill says his daughter’s head is really big. ??? But it’s not the genes.
Sue, are you on something? Everyone in my family gets them and has all immunizations. My wife works in helathcare, so it’s a two-way street there, she’s not exposing vulnerable, and not bringing it home from patients either. Fortunately, my wife’s employer provides ours. We had to make two trips to get the kids completed after they’d run out. Do you have anything relevant to John’s conversation?
John, I am curious, which work of Geier’s do you find compelling as scientific proof?
Mr. Best,
You write “Curing autism IS proof”
Lets look at that:
So when Virginia Axeline cured Dibs, in her psychodynamic book “Dibs: In search of Self” she proved that bad parenting really is the cause of autism?
I mean, she got the mother to admit that she caused her son’s autism by the end of the book; that is definately better than what Lenny and company have gotten out of Frist or Vertstraten.
There is a problem, apparently with the EoHarm time stamp…
Lawyer Krakow posts at “8:09 am” with his accusation the Offit is slandering them…
“… Offit should be made to retract his slander…”
Which he posts in response to Christine Hereen whose post is time stamped 10:26 am and 10:28 am (more than 2 hours after Krakow responds to her..??
She says: “OMG he’s showing the …USA Today Ad. He talked about our group. He called us “sinister'””
Yeah… except he *didn not* call y’all *sinister* darlin’ he called you what you really are….
*”cynical.”*
Krakow doesn’t retract what he wrote until what looks like 41 minutes later, but you can’t tell because it also looks like the time stamp is off by 2 hours… Anyway, I didn’t see the responses and I don’t know how long it was before those responses appeared on the website.
I don’t know if anyone has corrected Christine’s bad hearing of “cynical” yet. Christine hears “sinister” when Offit says “cynical,” maybe Christine knows something about her group, you know, Freud and all.
We’ve been over this. Your so called cured kids don’t count. Wait a few years and you’ll see the facade of normalcy crumble. Assuming people aren’t flat out lying, in which case the facade was never built or the kids were never autistic.
Geier wants to chemically castrate kids. He doesn’t count. Bernard is, what, some kind of market analyst or something of the sort? Do you know any REAL DOCTORS (MD type doctors) who believe in this crap? I sure don’t. Come on, if you’re right doctors would be jumping on this. But *gasp* you’re wrong.
Put up or shut up.
_”That’s right, MP isn’t autism. Do you think the medical profesion will admit that someday? “_
I think everyone except you SafeMinds, GR, NAA and all the other litigants know full well that mercury poisoning isn’t autism John. And now you seem to realise it too. Good for you :o)
_”Geier gave us proof. Bill Frist gace us proof. Verstraeten gave us proof. Haley gave us proof. Deth gave us proof. So did Holmes, Bernard, Cutler”_
None of these people gave you anything John except a desire to cling to absurdities :o)
_”Curing autism IS proof.”_
I’ll add to Jon’s Dibs example and ask you about Raun Kaufman – cured of autism by Son-Rise according to him and his parents. Maybe you could give the Son-Rise program a once over and explain to us all exactly what parts of that program are responsible for removing the mercury and reversing the accompnying physical damage mercury poisoning leaves on the brain?
_”I don’t mind helping kids who have idiots for parents and I think most other rescue angels feel the same way.”_
Classy John. JB should incorporate that as the Rescue Angels motto. You could get little badges made up and everything.
Ms. Clark wrote:
“There is a problem, apparently with the EoHarm time stamp…”
– I don’t know what you are seeing but from my screen it shows… 11:09 : Krakow makes his initial incorrect statement. 11:13 (4 min later): Christine corrects him. 11:21 (8 min later from that): Krakow thanks her for pointing that out and says he’ll check it. Some minutes later he acknowledges the mistake. So, what’s the big deal… and more importantly who cares? Yes, apparently I do for spending the time to actually look into something that is so irrelevant.
Dad wrote:
“Sue, are you on something? Everyone in my family gets them and has all immunizations”.
– Well, I hope that you specifically asked for thimerosal-free at least. If so, consider yourself lucky. You actually knew enough about the situation to ask specifically for the non-poisonous vaccine. If you didn’t ask for thimerosal-free, than good luck to you. I mean that, I don’t wish ill will upon anyone so I mean it… good luck with that.
Ms. Clark wrote:
“Sue, so you are saying that under certain conditions you would vaccinate your kids… real world, likely conditions not like, “yeah when an angel appears to me and tells me that Offit is not Satan…†that sort of thing”?
– You are forgetting something, Camille, my two oldest are already fully vaccinated… (why do you think I’m in this situation)? So other than a few boosters here and there which they may/may not need, they are all set. As for flu shots (which are recommended for my entire family due to my daughter’s high risk)… are you kidding me? Why would I ever get another flu shot? Foolish. My little guy is not fully vaccinated and will not be fully vaccinated. I am considering 1 or 2 for him but that’s about it. I’ve already stated that I don’t think that Offit is Satan, just a dumb ass!
Sue,
I wasn’t asking if you could go back and unvaccinate your kids, obviously not. I think you have ASD kids because of your and the kids’ father’s genes and that vaccines are not a contributing factor.
You exaggerate the toxicity of thimerosal to the point of utter ridiculousness.
I’m not afraid of thimerosal. My ASD kid and I have been getting vaxed with the flu (and pneumonia) shots since I learned about the mercury parent bleever line. I have assumed that the vaccines all contained thimerosal, though it’s possible that the pneumonia shot didn’t… I didn’t ask what kind it was.
That horrible “toxic” stuff is getting injected into kids as we speak, but SAFE MINDS which has money to spend on PR firms doesn’t just ask if they can do some tests on the kids that are getting the shots. Why? Because they know that it’s not dangerous and they know it doesn’t cause autism by now. They probably bleeved it in the beginning. They just need to keep that doubt going until the special master tells them to take a their lawyers and their tin foil hats, and unvaxed kids and leave the courtroom for good. (at which point they will probably try to incite a Rodney King verdict style riot in the streets).
Children may die specificially because of the work of GR and SAFEMINDS and UA … parents may say, “my now dead baby would still be here, but I heard what Mr. X of that autism organization said, and I got afraid of vaccines…”
That’s what it boils down to. Then you’ve got John Best Jr. who not only will specifically recommend that kids not get vaccinated, but that the parents not see a doctor if the kid gets sick. Forget the ones that have talked to him directly, on his blog he says that doctors are reptiles. Let’s hope his kid (and the kids of the parents who listen to him) doesn’t step on a nail or develop appendicitis, or need a tooth pulled.
Ms. Clark wrote:
“I think you have ASD kids because of your and the kids’ father’s genes and that vaccines are not a contributing factor”.
– You may want to ask Clone about my “ASD kids”, Camille.
Ms. Clark wrote:
“You exaggerate the toxicity of thimerosal to the point of utter ridiculousness”.
– This may be true, Ms. Clark. So far, however, no one has been able to show me that it is safe to be injected into babies and mercury is a neurotoxin after all… So what’s more ridiculous me protesting against it, or you sticking up for it?
Ms Clark;
Please don’t put words in my mouth. I don’t refer to anyone as reptiles. It’s not a word I use. I do call doctors scumbags and other names for continuing to lie about the fact that they caused this epidemic by not knowing how much mercury they were shooting into infants. I also do not advise anyone to skip vaccinations. I left one group a long time ago that wanted to get rid of all shots. I only advise people to make sure they aren’t getting thimerosal. I also think it’s a good idea to break up the MMR into 3 shots while saving the measles part until last since it is questionable.
SIDS has killed far more babies than chelation. Autistic kids drown, wander away and have been killed during exorcisms who have not been chelated. You make yourself look like a wacko by trying to scare people away from chelation because two dumb doctors administered the wrong drug.
You should be rejoicing for those children who have benefited from chelation and are escaping the horror that is autism. Some of them will go on to live productive lives and will not have someone changing their diapers when they’re in their 30’s. You would make yourself more credible if you stuck to the truth and told people that chelation only claims to cure 50% while 75% show some improvement. We don’t know how many people have tried chelation but the improvement of those who have far outweighs the risk of two cases of more medical malpractice. The honest scientists who are trying to help these kids have more to learn. The Geier’s claim that Lupron is helping children. I want to know more before I’d consider trying it. Calling the use of Lupron chemical castration when used on kids who have not reached puberty is not a valid argument. I think that’s why the Geier’s advised not to use it on kids over a certain age.
I’d like to know what tests you have on your kid that show its’ autism is caused by genes. If you don’t know that for a fact, it would be in your kid’s best interests to consider the fact that thimerosal has now been causing the thing mistakenly called autism for 75 years.
Kassiane;
You’ve made the mistake of assuming that someone in a certain profession can’t also be quite knowledgeable on other subjects. DAN doctors are real doctors. Those associated with DAN who don’t have MD after their name are not doctors. See what you can learn if you pay attention!
While your hope of recovery may be nil, kids who were flung into the abyss by mercury are recovering. Only a fool would try to deny that. I think you’re just jealous that your genes won’t let you escape the nightmare that you live. Others have viable options for recovery and not giving them that chance to recover is malpractice by the medical profession. Parents who aren’t bright enough to learn this can be excused from the child abuse rap by their stupidity. However, the doctors who advise them know better and they should be held accountable for allowing these children to suffer when options are available to help them. I think you are too angry at your own situation to be able to grasp the facts.
Kevin;
If we put all the scientists I mentioned in front of a jury, I think it would be quite easy to gain a verdict. If the IOM hadn’t been ordered to find otherwise, they would’ve come to the same conclusion.
Right again Kev, MP isn’t autism. Autism has been misnamed. This epidemic should be called the MP epidemic not the autism epidemic. And, in time, that will happen.
I don’t know anything about Sunrise or kids recovering from bad parenting. However, your kid can probably recover from bad parenting and , if you’d like, you can ship her over to New Hampshire and I’ll chelate her for you.