Autism and Murder

18 Mar

Two stories recently made a splash in the autism community. In the first:

An 18-year-old man described as “severely autistic” is in custody on suspicion he murdered a 59-year-old Coos County woman…

and in the second:

A judge has ruled that Asperger’s syndrome cannot be used by the defense in the case of a man accused or murdering a woman after he lured her to his home in Savage in October 2007.

Three blogs carried this story, each revealing their owners particular viewpoints. In his small circulation blog, Harold Doherty said:

In recent days and weeks two severely autistic young men have been implicated in homicides. In one case, a young man with autism has been implicated in the death of his mother who publicly professed her deep love for her son and the joy that he brought to her….Neurodiversity ideologues are unlikely to change. Their views are entrenched and tied to their own public careers as professional “autistics” or “enlightened” autism parents. The truth is that they discourage society from addressing the harsher realities of autism by effective therapy, treatment or cure. They help keep members of the public from understanding the full nature of autism, particularly as it affects the most severely autistic. Theirs is a movement whose aim is to keep everyone from facing autism reality. Theirs is a movement which wants society to keep our heads in the sand and ignore autism reality.

And on their advert covered anti vaccination site, Age of Autism said:

How many stories of violent deaths allegedly at the hands of autistic teen males will we have to read before the world either A) embraces treatment for autism as a medical ailment or B) paints all autistic males as dangerous killers and locks them away a la 1955?

So you can see that Harold uses these deaths to say how silly neurodiversity is and AoA use them to say that treatment for autism is the only valid option before society is overrun with autistic killers.

Both viewpoints are pretty ridiculous. Harold builds up the idea that members of neurodiversity don’t like to talk about the bad things autism can bring. This is patently untrue as just a fairly random peruse around Autism Hub blogs would reveal. In fact, what neurodiversity bloggers tend to talk about are the good things and the bad. A quick example from Niksmom for example. The thing is that for parents on the Autism Hub who talk openly about their kids, they easily mix the good and the bad. Amanda Baggs, an autistic person, talks about some of the bad things that can happen to autistic people often. What Harold finds offensive is that we talk about the good things *at all* . I have no idea why.

And of course, on AoA they are desperate to link everything together with treatment. To make sure that *every aspect* of autism is seen as medical and to encourage biomedical treatment of those issues. A simple look at the advert-riddled blog that they have become is evidence of that. NB – I’m not knocking ads on websites at all but six image and text ads and five ‘sponsors’ is a little bit too much.

But then the third blog I’m talking about is Lisa Jo Rudy’s where she asks carefully and thoughtfully about how we can make sure that autism is _accurately_ reported on and presented to the world?

How can we battle the anxiety felt around the “autism spectrum” diagnosis? How can we present the face of autism accurately, without raising the specter of violence? What are your thoughts on this thorny issue?

Note the lack of appeal to fear (cure ’em or they’ll kill us!!) or appeal to fallacy (the evil ND’s are brainwashing the world!!) that AoA and Harold feel compelled to perpetuate. In fact the only quibble I’d have with Lisa Jo’s piece is the emphasis she places solely on children. However as someone writing from the POV of a parent maybe this is understandable.

In my opinion, the answer to Lisa Jo’s question – how do we get accurate information out about autism? – can be answered in some part by science.

I found it quite difficult to get ahold of papers about autism and death attributed to an autistic person. But the few that I did get access to point to quite a different direction than the overly bleak and purposefully twisted futures foreseen by Harold Doherty and AoA.

In this study, the authors looked at rates of criminality amongst those with a Pervasive Developmental Disability (subgrouped to ‘childhood autism’, atypical autism and AS) . In the childhood autism group (which corresponds to severe/kanners/etc) 0.9% had a conviction as adults. In the control group, the rate was 18.9%. For atypical autism the conviction rate was 8.1%. The control group was 14.7%. For AS, the rate was 18.4% and the control group was 19.6%.

So, in each subgroup of PDD the authors looked at, the rate of criminal conviction was lower than controls. For the type of autism that Doherty and AoA are talking about less than 1% had a conviction compared to 18.9%. I think its clear that if this paper is accurate then we’re hardly going to be overrun with autistic killers.

In the other paper I couldnt get ahold of to read in its entirety, the authors looked at wether moral judgement was present in autism. Its worth noting the assumption that ‘theory of mind’ is somewhat accurate by these authors but still,:

Cry baby scenarios, in which the distress of the victim is “unreasonable” or “unjustified,” do not elicit moral condemnation from normally developing preschoolers or from children with autism. Judgments of moral transgressions in which the victim displays distress are therefore not likely the result of a simple automatic reaction to distress and more likely involve moral reasoning…

Therefore,

…basic moral judgment [is] substantially intact in children with autism who are severely impaired in ‘theory of mind’.

Or in other words, severely autistic people demonstrably know the difference between right and wrong.

The third paper that I did get ahold of in its entirety was a very disturbing case study about an autistic 10 year old girl who killed her baby sister. After reading it and the heap of physical and mental abuses placed upon the autistic child, including the parents letting neighbours beat her and the parents withdrawing her seizure medications I felt this case was too extreme to be valid.

The feeling I get is that these tragic cases of severely autistic people seriously harming others are rarer than rare. Certainly the observation that severely autistic people clearly are aware of right and wrong and that the follow up observation that severely autistic (and atypically autistic) people had an extremely low conviction rate compared to controls shows that I think its very wrong to paint autistic people as requiring a cure before they kill us all or are forcibly locked away. It is also wrong to suggest that the ability to find happiness in a life with autism is somehow not realistic because autistic people kill others. Its a real shame that Doherty and AoA – all parents of autistic people – have so little respect for the sort of people their children may turn out to be.

33 Responses to “Autism and Murder”

  1. Brenda March 18, 2009 at 00:49 #

    Sadly typical. It’s always the fault of the minority. The fact that the majority kills, injures, abuses, scorns, maltreats, ignores, harasses and/or neglects the minority at a much higher rate than the reverse, allowing for the relative numbers of each, is acceptable, because the majority is the majority and, therefore, right.

    I’ve always found it quite interesting when a member of the majority suddenly finds themselves a physical minority, if only temporarily. Much more entertaining than anything I could pay to see.

  2. Nicky March 18, 2009 at 02:32 #

    Ever notice how when an autistic person kills a neurotypical, the curebies present it as proof of how horrible it is to have autistic people around, and when a neurotypical parent kills his or her autistic child, the curebies present it as proof of how horrible it is to have autistic people around?

  3. stefanie March 18, 2009 at 03:13 #

    how come when an nt person commites a crime they dont say he was a nt .an what about that dad that drees up as santa san muder his whole family .noone say he had iusse with santa cluse i have autism an these storey make me crazy

  4. Kathleen March 18, 2009 at 03:23 #

    “How do we get accurate information out about autism” Indeed that is the million dollar question. My other question is this…Why is it assumed that autism had anything to do with both the aforementioned murders-other than the fact that both suspects are on the spectrum? my fear is this-the majority of mainstream media has portrayed autism with only negative connotations attached to it-Would accurate information change public perception? Or is the verdict already in.Look at the vaccine issue-The science is there, and yet there is still a debate…

  5. Lisa March 18, 2009 at 12:00 #

    Thanks for your kind words, Kev.

    I think the difference between my blog and Harold’s blog and AofA (which are very different from each other, of course) is that both are specifically intended to promote a point of view. Harold’s is focused on the importance of ABA as an autism treatment; AofA on biomedical treatment.

    My blog, on the other hand, attempts to raise most issues without having a specific political or medical agenda. Naturally, being a human person, my philosophy comes through- but (perhaps bizarrely) – I really don’t think I know what causes or cures autism.

    Most significantly, I’m aware that ASD is an incredibly broad diagnosis. Folks with autism may feel blessed or cursed with the diagnosis. And in all cases they may be right.

    What disturbs me about the conversation is that, in order to take a point of view, it seems we have to describe people with autism spectrum disorders as if they were very similar to one another. “People with ASD’s are coping with terrible medical problems” (some are, some are not) or “People with ASD’s are Einstein-like in their ability to enhance the world” (few are – or we’d have Einsteins and Mozarts on every corner!).

    There’s no good point in my comparing my son with HFA and no medical problems (touch wood!) to Michelle Cedillo. They’re living in different realities. And so am I and Terry. I can watch and empathize with her situation (or argue about it) – but I am most certainly not living it.

    Lisa (autism.about.com)

  6. farmwifetwo March 18, 2009 at 13:49 #

    What I’m tired of is the “suck it up” attitude and the lack of lobbying by those in the ND crowd….. the “joy” is never tempered by the realities.

    The “let them just evolve b/c you can’t educated them” attitude. And yes, it exists. Where’s your lobbying for services, education, inclusion?? Instead this blog is simply a “anti-vax” bashing site. I too don’t believe vaccine’s caused my kid’s (both) autism but I’m tired that all blogs like this one discuss. That’s all neurodiversity.com discusses. Estee thinks everyone that can’t afford her nanny and permanent respite worker and private schooling needs to “suck it up”… must be nice to afford 100% supports all the time. To go to the USA to get a dx and services when your child is 18mths old when the rest of us had to get into the queue and wait…. 18mths to 24mths for a high-functioning dx – b/c you have to return a 2nd time since they won’t dx the HFA ones when they are small… 6mths for a severe one. To be able to afford private OT and SLP when we get whatever crumbs the system gives us after we sign away our privacy and our respect and feel like “white trash” as we deal with the system. Then she turns around and slaps us with the same “white trash” attitude.

    How DARE those that sit outside the system, that have no idea how the system works, that have never fought for services that FINALLY at Gr 4 we get…. tell the rest of us to “suck it up”.

    I noticed that you don’t like Autistics like Dr Temple Grandin or Jerry Newport. Autistics that actually tell other autistics to stop expecting to be catered to and to…. “suck it up”.

    People don’t want “cure” as in let’s remove someone’s brain and replace it with a new one. They want “cure” so they have independant adults with jobs, lovers and families…. it’s not “cute”, “joyful” etc to leave a child to rot in a group home b/c that’s the only option you have. Or have them suspended out of a PDD class 2 or 3 days out of 5 due to their inability to function/learn/cope, which happens regularly in PDD Classes here. That’s also the reason I’ll leave mine to sit and rot in a regular classroom before I’ll put him in with those violent kids in a PDD class. They are tired of the destruction, the lack of sleeping, the inability to communicate with their children.

    Maybe those that sit on this ND pedestal might offer a little compassion, empathy and lobbying…. for those that feel the world is caving in on them and there’s no help out there for them.

    Instead of “suck it up and if you don’t your a horrible, unfeeling, miserable parent” maybe a lobby for funding, medication research, and education techniques for those that are on the lower end of the scale. Instead the Aspie crowd likes to pretend they don’t exist…. Which is why I have no respect for the ND crowd and it’s autistics that think they are above and outside of society and deserve to be treated as some medical marvels instead of living within society and following it’s rules.

    S. – who hopes Aspies and NLD’s get removed from the ASD spectrum in 2010 – which btw… includes my eldest kid who’s dx is NLD w/ S/L delay.

  7. Kev March 18, 2009 at 14:44 #

    Thats the most bizarre comment I’ve read FW2. Where do you get the idea I think we should just ‘let them evolve’? When you read this post did you skip over the two clear examples of people blogging about the bad side of autism?

    Further, this blog has an educational section but as I no longer talk about my child its not used so much.

    Your rant about estee is both in the wrong place and I’ll wager, wrong. Has she told you to ‘suck it up’? No? So why are you putting words in her mouth?

    Further you claim I don’t like Temple Grandin or Jerry Newport…where do I say that?

    To be honest I have no idea what your incoherent little rant was all about. You combine mistakes with accusations and a seeming grudge against Estee. All its done is reveal you as a fool.

  8. Rjaye March 18, 2009 at 15:43 #

    Whoa, Farmwifetoo, I don’t get you either. I don’t know where you get your info, but it’s wrong, wrong, wrong. Holy moly. I’ve been reading some heartbreaking things about what parents are going through with their kids, and I see how hard these folks (including people with ASDs and other supporters)are working for more supports and for more studies into causes and treatments for ASDs.

    It seems like you skip over the struggles Kev and others write about, and even ignore the context just to personally vent about something. I’m sorry you can’t get help, I’m sorry your school sucks, I’m sorry there aren’t enough experts…but maybe you yourself need help. Whether through a support group, a counselor, a minister…you need to be heard, and on a regular basis.

    Good luck.

  9. Joseph March 18, 2009 at 16:16 #

    I thought this post was about whether murder and violence should be a concern when it comes to autistic people. The science Kev located appears to indicate it’s not an evidence-based concern. In the case of classic autistics, specifically, it looks like they are much less likely to be convicted of a crime than non-autistics.

    The abstract does say something about arson and Asperger’s. That might be an area that requires further discussion.

    If there are people who still believe autistics are inherently criminal or violent, they should provide some rationale or data or an argument to that effect. I would imagine Harold Doherty and Kim Stagliano still believe that.

    Discussion of the general merit of the different ideologies that float around the autism communities seems out of place.

    • Kev March 18, 2009 at 22:31 #

      I agree Joseph, I have no idea why people seem so worried about discussing the science/evidence in favour of bashing something else. It speaks to their fear in my opinion.

  10. The Gonzo Girl March 18, 2009 at 17:45 #

    It angers me, that so many autism haters say, that “we” ignore autism realities.
    I’ve been writing about my realities from day one, the good and the bad sides.
    The result is, that I either get pitied, and accused of being miserable, or I get told that I have a relative good fortune.
    Neither is true.

    Also to these idiots, who always say that AS is not *real* Autism, and it should be thrown off the spectrum:
    I’ve read all your horror stories about your *really* Autistic child, I’ve been like that when I was a kid, too, now STFU and stop making assumptions, because
    1.) you don’t know how your child will be like when it’s grown up, and
    2.) you don’t know what an autistic adult has been like when they were a child.

  11. Elaine DeLack March 19, 2009 at 00:08 #

    As you are very well aware, the prevalence of children being diagnosed with an Autism Spectrum Disorder is increasing at an alarming rate. We would appreciate your assistance in helping us try to identify if the use of epidural analgesia/anesthesia and Pitocin during childbirth have any association with the development of autism.

    If you are willing to participate in a survey questionnaire, please email Elaine DeLack, RN at elaine@edmsllc.com and the questionnaire will be emailed to you for your completion.

    Thank you in advance for your participation in this research.

  12. Chris March 19, 2009 at 00:50 #

    Elain DeLack said “the prevalence of children being diagnosed with an Autism Spectrum Disorder is increasing at an alarming rate.”

    Oh, really?

    http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=454

    (by the way I have never had an epidural)

    On the subject of this blog posting, I have an anecdote of how to deal with the bigotry idiocy. My son is over 20 years old, so he has never been formally diagnosed with autism (one of those classified with Specific Language Disorder).

    Many, many… M..A..N..Y years ago I was active in writing letters to my legislators on the poor state of special education funding. I sent a letter to both of my state senators about the services my son was getting, and that there needs to be more focus on these children. I even included a copy of my son’s award for “Special Acts of Kindness”.

    One senator sent me back a lovely letter of support, and that she had been a teacher.

    The other one sent me a form letter only addressed to my husband (even though I signed both of our names) explaining to me that violence in schools was very high, and essentially caused by these special ed. kids.

    I had just been to a district wide meeting for parents of special ed. students where the superintendent of schools told us that school violence was at a twenty year LOW. Needless to say, I was livid!

    By the way, one of those senators is still in office. Fortunately it is the former teacher, the other guy was voted out at the next election.

  13. Joseph March 19, 2009 at 01:44 #

    Elaine’s comment is spam that has been appearing in most Hub blogs. The study is biased a priori anyway since the comment says “We would appreciate your assistance in helping us try to identify if the use of epidural analgesia/anesthesia and Pitocin during childbirth.” Obviously, parents of autistic children who had epidurals will be more likely to contact Elaine than anyone else.

  14. MJ March 19, 2009 at 02:25 #

    So let me see if I understand this. First you ban Harold from commenting on your blog and then you write a post critical of him?

    Nice.

    You also said :

    “To make sure that every aspect of autism is seen as medical and to encourage biomedical treatment of those issues”

    The first part of your statement is correct – autism is a solely a medical condition. The word does not mean anything else.

    You may choose to assign additional meaning to it but that is your own non-standard usage. And as for treating a medical condition, well, if you feel that is inappropriate, that is your opinion.

  15. Dedj March 19, 2009 at 02:41 #

    “You may choose to assign additional meaning to it but that is your own non-standard usage.”

    Not really. You’d be very hard pushed to find a autism organisation that does not attribute evidence or experience based interpretations on what the ‘medical’ traits mean in a higher social and cultural context.

    “The word does not mean anything else”

    No, but like it or not , it does have socio-cultural value attached to it which impacts on both service provision and perception (thus treatment) of people with autism, just like it did for asthma, dyslexia, down syndrome, dementia… basically many conditions that have a radically more considerate and client centered status in the education and health services today.

    ND proponents are significantly more advanced than their detractors in that they both recognise this, recognise the systems in play, and also what we might be able to do with those systems to make things more level for us all. This is in addition to those that work in (or advocate for) autism services such as Arnold, Murray, Turner and others.

    People like HD, JC et al. are stuck in the conditional reasoning stage, repeating the mantra of diagnostic criteria endlessly. It would be great if they could get a move on and look at the whole picture, given the disproportionataly large attention they appear to be recieving.

    As much as it sucks to be Harold, he does have a right to respond on his own blog (just like those of us who ‘somehow’ get trapped in the spam-filter at huffington or AoA do) but we both know he gets vastly more international attention by association with ND’s like kev than he does through his own work.

  16. Elaine DeLack March 19, 2009 at 03:11 #

    Hello Joseph,

    I apologize if it appears that my posting was SPAM. That is not true at all. We are requesting participation from all people who have autistic children and we are asking them to complete a questionnaire for each child whether the child has autism or not and indicate whether they had an epidural or Pitocin. I would be happy to share the rationale for looking to see if there is an association. You can call me toll free at 1-888-854-0288.

  17. Chris March 19, 2009 at 06:38 #

    Elaine, I suggest you go back to school and learn about basic research randomization. Basically it means that self-selected surveys are stupid. Sorry, but that is reality.

    What you need to do is to go back and search the medical records (with basic permissions that a real researcher would need) to check to see if there were a certain number of autistic children born with epidurals versus those who did not have epidurals (like mine)… compared to the number of neurotypical children born with epidurals versus those without epidurals (whoa… like my younger two kids… OMG — I have three kids, and never had an epidural! And only one can be considered autistic under the DSM IV, which was created when my kid was six years old).

    Oh, wait… didn’t I already make a comment that your “increasing at an alarming rate” was not exactly true?

    Anyway, those databases are available in many HMOs. These are available to real researchers and have been used for several epidemiological studies, that if you were a real researcher you would be familiar with. (the only folks who get denied access are those who muck with HIPAA requirements, like the Geiers, sorry — but your survey should also not violate certain privacy concerns)

    What might also help is if you posted what university you were associated with, a list of your previous peer reviewed papers and who was funding the survey. Just a suggestion.

  18. Sullivan March 19, 2009 at 07:12 #

    So you can see that Harold uses these deaths to say how silly neurodiversity is and AoA use them to say that treatment for autism is the only valid option before society is overrun with autistic killers.

    I want to stress that their basic premise is totally wrong. People at AoA like to say, “they don’t believe in treatment”, like we all think that kids with autism should be left in a corner somewhere. They like to group all “treatments” into one, instead of admitting that there is a huge difference between “evidence based treatments”, “experimental treatments” and “treatments based on flawed or demonstrably failed concepts”.

    For example, I can say, “There is no evidence that supports giving lupron to children with autism” and still support treating children (or adults) with autism.

    If there were such a thing as a “cure” for autism, one could support “treating” people with autism as distinct from “curing” people with autism. However, unless and until that day comes, it doesn’t make sense to have that discussion.

  19. Kev March 19, 2009 at 08:07 #

    MJ if you really think this post is about Harold then I think you need to go back and read it again. Heres a hint: the title

  20. daedalus2u March 19, 2009 at 15:47 #

    One of the most well documented developmental associations with individuals perpetrating violence is exposure to violence in utero, as an infant, as a child, as a teenager, and as an adult. This is called the cycle of violence.

    It makes intuitive sense. If one is exposed to violence, one learns violence as a coping skill. When people are abused, why should we be surprised if they become abusive?

    If we want to reduce the level of violence in the society, the surest way to do it is by reducing the violence that children experience. Then the next generation will be less violent. I am talking about real violence perpetrated by real people against real people, not games of abstract violence like chess.

  21. Calli Arcale March 19, 2009 at 22:41 #

    To use the Craigslist killing case here in Minnesota to show that autism is dangerous is disgusting. That’s the guy in Savage who advertised for a babysitter in order to lure an unsuspecting person to his home, then killed her, reportedly to find out what it felt like to kill someone. His lawyers attempted to offer an insanity plea, on the basis of his alleged Asperger’s, though it’s not clear to me whether or not he was actually diagnosed as such. What AoA isn’t telling you is that the courts ruled against this defense — that is, they disagree that Asperger’s makes a person incapable of telling right from wrong. This guy knew that what he was doing was wrong. Autism and Aspergers do not generally prevent a person from knowing the difference. I suppose a severely autistic person with greatly diminished mental capacity might be more likely to commit negligent homicide, simply by being less able to realize certain dangers, but that is not the same thing at all. (Note: at the same time, a person like this is often better at following directions in their areas of competence than a normal person, and thus *less* likely to commit negligent homicide. Statistically, it might even out.)

    Anyone scared of autistic people as potential killers is totally off base. Autistics are probably *less* dangerous than the general population, not more. And they can face all sorts of personal problems, same as “normal” folks. They can get depressed, they can be abused, they can grow up without a good moral compass, they can get violently angry.

    This is not because they are autistic. This is because they are *human*.

    Frankly, in the case of the “Craigslist killer”, as the local media here call him, the attempted Asperger’s defense is just another variant of the Twinkie defense. The lawyer knows the guy’s guilty. It’s the only defense he can think of. However, Minnesota has a very high standard when it comes to insanity pleas. (Perhaps too high. Certainly, MN does not facilitate committing someone against their will, which has led to a number of tragedies.) Since this guy knows that what he did was wrong, insanity is not a defense. And Asperger’s is not insanity in any case. What he did was premeditated murder, plain and simple, and there is no defense for that. Especially since he’s on record confessing to it, and they’ve got a load of physical and circumstantial evidence on top of that.

  22. MJ March 20, 2009 at 01:28 #

    “MJ if you really think this post is about Harold then I think you need to go back and read it again.”

    It is truly amazing how you insist on changing statements instead of addressing the substance of a comment.

    I said a post critical of him, I did not say a post about him. Critical of is not the same concept as about.

    I am sure that you understand that or then again maybe you don’t.

  23. Poor Poor Harold March 20, 2009 at 06:44 #

    So let me see if I understand this. First you ban Harold from commenting on your blog and then you write a post critical of him?

    What, like poor Harold’s published words should be immune to critical analysis on LBRB because he’s a banned commenter?

    I’ll grant you that it may seema little unfair, especially since much of what Harold writes, from what I’ve seen, might look like low-hanging fruit to even the most fledgling of critical thinkers, but outside of your weak appeal to emotion, the notion is ridiculous.

    If Harold were restricted to blogging without being critical of those the that he did not allow to comment, his blog might very well be blank! This is a fallacious argument of course (tu quoque), and I make in humor, but I’m thinking it might make some sort of sense to you.

  24. Kev March 20, 2009 at 08:34 #

    MJ, how exactly do you be critical of someone without talking about them?

  25. Joseph March 20, 2009 at 15:41 #

    If Harold wants to respond, there are ways to do it. A standard way is to post a rebuttal in his own blog.

    I don’t think Kev should recuse himself from criticizing Harold because of the ban. That doesn’t make any sense. It would mean most bloggers around here are disallowed from commenting about, say, John Best.

  26. MJ March 20, 2009 at 22:51 #

    I said “critical of” – you replied with “about him”. I pointed out that those two concepts aren’t the same.

    Now you are saying that you are just “talking about” him.

    Which brings me back to my original point. Writing a snarky post about someone shortly after banning him is an interesting maneuver.

    As to what you said Joesph, you proved my point with the comment about Best. I (thankfully) haven’t seen any posts about him lately.

    So I guess my point is either ban and ignore or don’t ban – it is a crappy thing to ban and then criticize.

    • Kev March 20, 2009 at 23:38 #

      Right. I guess there’s something you believe in somewhere in that lot.

      I didn’t ban Harold to deprive him of talking back. I banned him as after cutting him a LOT of slack over the years – including the fact that no comments of mine were ever approved at his blog – I got bored of hearing his passive-aggressive bullshit. If you or he thinks that means I’m never going to mention him ever again then you’re sadly mistaken. If you don’t like that – tough 🙂

  27. jypsy March 23, 2009 at 16:39 #

    MJ,
    Mr. Doherty just wrote a post naming me, among others, and won’t let me comment. All I tried to do was point out 2 things I’ve done that absolutely contradict the stories he was telling about me there but truth and reality are not allowed – only his version of my life and beliefs are.

  28. MJ March 24, 2009 at 23:18 #

    Jypsy – which post was that? I can’t seem to find a recent one of his blog that talks about you.

  29. jypsy March 25, 2009 at 00:22 #

    “Autism Murder Charges – Time To Pull Our Heads Out Of The Sand”

  30. jypsy March 25, 2009 at 17:11 #

    MJ,
    Sorry for my brief comments, I’ve been travelling.
    To this statement “In fact Neurodiversity ideologues openly oppose existing, effective ABA and the search for future cures and treatments.” I offered my old (still linked to) website page on ABA you can find here: http://web.archive.org/web/20050421084413/http://www.isn.net/~jypsy/aba.htm . Certainly not my definition of “openly oppose”. I openly oppose it being made “medically necessary” for my children – I think my kids are proof it isn’t “necessary”, medically or otherwise. I will work to preserve the choice I had for my children for others who desire that choice.
    As far as the “fact” I “take offense whenever someone discusses negative autism realities.” — my son & I went to great lengths to bring Dennis Debbaut to PEI in 2006 to train the Island’s Law Enforcement, First Responders as well as autistics, their parents, and medical & educational professionals and anyone else interested – all free of charge. We have also put piles of resources in the hands of these people (see http://www.PlanetAutism.com/runman). My son ran across our Province, a 14 day run, to make that happen. It appears to me that we were directly addressing some negative autism realities, at least that was our intention. If autism were the picnic in the park Mr. Doherty keeps insisting we say it is, there would be no need for Dennis Debbaudt’s training.
    But, as you can see on Mr. Doherty’s blog, his stories about me stand, and are allowed to stand without my correction or mention of the contradicting facts. My only recourse is when someone like you opens the door with a comment like you made here. Still, it’s unlikely that My. Doherty’s readers will be reading here to learn the truth.

  31. candice November 24, 2014 at 15:56 #

    Both parents and an autistic child cooperates with the treatment has hope rather than who does not cooperate might well be a caution..

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