EmpowHER autism blogger…still failing

14 Oct

I recently wrote about a series of rather unfactual articles on EmpowHER, EmpowHer blogs the autism vaccine story…and fails. I checked back on her discussion. Here’s part of her latest comment:

Actually, most of the transmission of whooping cough to newborns is from their vaccinated parents and siblings. The vaccine has been found to only last 3 years so because people are vaccinated repeatedly through childhood and teens, it wears off at a time they are childbearing. In the past, the majority of people had whooping cough as children so they developed life-long immunity to it so could not infect their own children and in the past, most mother’s who had had whooping cough, also breast fed which meant their babies were protected from whooping cough during the vulnerable newborn phase.

Let’s take a look at this, shall we?

Does a pertussis infection give a person “lifelong” immunity? No. Does a vaccine give only 3 years of immunity? No. A journal article (first one on my search for “immunity from pertussis”) states otherwise:

Duration of immunity against pertussis after natural infection or vaccination.
Wendelboe AM, Van Rie A, Salmaso S, Englund JA.
Source

Department of Epidemiology, University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, Chapel Hill, NC 27599, USA. awendelboe@unc.edu
Abstract

Despite decades of high vaccination coverage, pertussis has remained endemic and reemerged as a public health problem in many countries in the past 2 decades. Waning of vaccine-induced immunity has been cited as one of the reasons for the observed epidemiologic trend. A review of the published data on duration of immunity reveals estimates that infection-acquired immunity against pertussis disease wanes after 4-20 years and protective immunity after vaccination wanes after 4-12 years. Further research into the rate of waning of vaccine-acquired immunity will help determine the optimal timing and frequency of booster immunizations and their role in pertussis control.

So, if we subject people to an infection rather than a vaccination, they might get roughly double the immunity time. Infection comes at the cost of weeks or months of painful coughing, potential permanent harm or death.

The first website in my simple and quick search was the New York state health department.

Neither vaccination nor natural infection with pertussis guarantees lifelong protective immunity against pertussis. Since immunity decreases after five to ten years from the last pertussis vaccine dose, older children, adolescents and adults are at risk of becoming infected with pertussis and need vaccination.

What about “in the past, most mother’s who had had whooping cough, also breast fed which meant their babies were protected from whooping cough during the vulnerable newborn phase.”

Well, yes and no. Protected, yes. As well as being vaccinated? No. Completely protected? No. Whooping cough resulted in a death rate of 4.5/1000 infants in the U.S. in 1900, a year when I expect breast feeding was near 100%.

EmpowHER claims that:

EmpowHER.com provides credible, evidence-based health content from over 400 world-class health care professionals, experts and providers.

Perhaps they could hire writers who would spend 30 seconds doing a simple web search to back up their unfounded claims. Not much to ask from “world class” “experts”.

Seriously, who allowed this comment to go through “Also, the vaccines don’t technically immunize, they change the presentation of the disease.”

Seriously wrong. EmpowHER can, and should, do much better.

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42 Responses to “EmpowHER autism blogger…still failing”

  1. Emily Willingham October 14, 2011 at 01:58 #

    I’m thinking they shoulda called themselves “DisempowHER.”

  2. Julian Frost October 14, 2011 at 06:54 #

    Good one, Sullivan!

  3. Rachael October 14, 2011 at 15:29 #

    Whooping cough shot didn’t protect two-thirds of local cases.
    http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_867b57d8-802f-57c4-ab4d-5cee6a881006.html
    ***********************************

    Watch Dog – blurred lines of influence whooping cough
    http://www.watchdoginstitute.org/2010/12/14/blurred-lines-of-influence/
    ***********************************

    Many whooping cough victims have been immunized; Experts spar over prospects of new strain
    http://www.watchdoginstitute.org/2010/12/13/whooping-cough-epidemic-california/

  4. Chris October 14, 2011 at 19:48 #

    Rachael, do you seriously think we’d be better off without the DTaP and Tdap? Please read Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story.

    Please give us the evidence that the DTaP is worse than pertussis, tetanus and diphtheria. Just list the journal, title and date of the studies that are indexed in PubMed.

    Please make sure none of the authors have had their license to practice medicine suspended or revoked. Do not cite “Medical Hypotheses” (just look up “hypothesis” in a dictionary). And absolutely no more websites, just real scientific papers please.

  5. Rachael October 14, 2011 at 21:32 #

    Do you know what I want Chris? I want to go back to the 1983 vaccine schedule.

    “When it comes to vaccines: Be informed. Know each individual vaccine and the disease it is correlated with. Know your individual child’s risk factor both for getting the disease (and/or actually being harmed by it) and the likelihood of adverse effects due to over-vaccination. Know how natural, life-long immunity is built in the body, and how it benefits an individual over his/her lifetime. Understand the most powerful of infant immunizations – exclusive breastfeeding. Make decisions on a vax-by-vax basis. There is no reason to blindly say ‘yes’ to 36-38 injections before your baby turns 66 months of age.”

    http://www.drmomma.org/2011/01/cdc-mandatory-vaccine-schedule-1983-vs.html

    • Sullivan October 14, 2011 at 22:53 #

      “Do you know what I want Chris? I want to go back to the 1983 vaccine schedule.”

      You can. Well, you can’t get the whole cell pertussis DPT in the US. And you’d have to settle for about 100x lower thimerosal exposure. But there is nothing keeping you from using the 1993 schedule.

      Now, the question I have–are you suggesting that the rest of us should not have the choice to remain in the 21st century? Are you suggesting that the rest of us should be forced to leave our children vulnerable to HepB, Hib menningitis and the rest of the advances? Are you suggesting that we should be happy letting our kids’ immunity to measles fade without a booster shot, leaving them vulnerable as adolescents and young adults?

      I chose not to live in the past. I am happy to have the choice to take advantage of modern advances in medicine. I chose to protect my family from as many infectious diseases as I can.

  6. Chris October 14, 2011 at 21:51 #

    Why won’t you answer my questions? What is so great about actually getting haemophilus influenzae type b? What are exactly the hazards of the HIB vaccine versus haemophilus influenzae type b?

    What is so great about rotavirus? Do you seriously think a child becoming dehydrated from massive diarrhea is a good thing? What are the actual hazards of RotaTeq and Rotarix vaccines?

    What is so great about chicken pox? What kind of cruel heartless person wants kids to suffer through that? What are the actual hazards of the varicella vaccine versus chicken pox?

    Why on earth do you want to go back to the oral polio vaccine? Do you really want more kids like John Salamone’s son to be paralyzed from the vaccine? What are the actual hazards of the IPV versus the OPV?

    Why do you want to go back to the DTP vaccine? Even though it did not really cause seizures (see the paper I posted earlier), why don’t you like the newer DTaP vaccine? I know I have asked before, but you have not actually answered: what real scientific evidence do you have that either the DTaP and Tdap are more dangerous than diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis?

    And why all the moaning and groaning about the MMR? It has been on the American vaccine schedule since 1971. Now, I know I have asked you multiple times to tell us what real scientific evidence you have that the MMR is more dangerous than measles, mumps and rubella, but you never answered.

    And what actual scientific evidence that you have that breastfeeding protects from disease? My daughter was resisting solid foods at six months, and was only getting breast milk when she became very ill with chicken pox.

    And again, I am going to have to insist that you post absolutely no websites, and that you limit your answer to the journal, title and date of the PubMed indexed scientific papers in your answers.

  7. Chris October 14, 2011 at 22:10 #

    About haemophilus influenzae type b from http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs294/en/index.html :

    Industrialized countries, with sophisticated health-surveillance systems, became aware of the threat posed by Hib as much as 50 years ago. Before immunization programmes began in the early 1990s, Hib was demonstrated to be the leading cause of childhood bacterial meningitis in nearly all countries in which appropriate studies were performed, including Australia, Canada, Finland, the Netherlands, Sweden and the United States of America.

    From:
    Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2006 Mar;160(3):302-9. Review
    Impact of specific medical interventions on reducing the prevalence of mental retardation.
    Brosco JP, Mattingly M, Sanders LM.

    With regard to natural history, Hib meningitis was once the leading cause of acquired MR in the United States. Slightly more than half of the Hib meningitis invasive cases presented as meningitis, and one third of children with Hib meningitis went on to have MR. Approximately 1 in 10 children died from Hib meningitis.

    Now, really, why do you want haemophilus influenzae type b to return?

  8. Chris October 14, 2011 at 23:03 #

    Rachael, what are the medical qualifications of the person pushing the 1983 schedule? We already know she/he cites Dr. Bob Sears, but he does not have the proper qualifications.

    Who are you really trusting for medical advice?

    • Sullivan October 14, 2011 at 23:10 #

      “There is no reason to blindly say ‘yes’ to 36-38 injections before your baby turns 66 months of age.””

      There is also no reason to “blindly” say yes to the 1983 schedule. There should be a reason. More than one, since more than one vaccine would be declined.

      You aren’t, by chance, trying to imply that I “blindly” made these decisions, are you? That the only choice for one who has weighed the risks and benefits would be to chose the 1983 schedule.

      (aside: I don’t see the value in importing thimerosal containing vaccines and whole-cell pertussis vaccines in order to chose the 1983 schedule)

  9. Chris October 14, 2011 at 23:53 #

    My kids are older. I did not choose for the oldest to get seizures from a now vaccine preventable disease (dehydration from rotavirus). I also did not choose to spend a month dealing with three sick children in pain from chicken pox (it last two weeks, so one child got it, and two weeks later his siblings got it). A mother at baby/mom group I attended did not choose for her first child to die from haemophilus influenzae type b.

    I think a parent should choose to avoid those diseases. Since the data show the vaccines are much safer than the diseases. It is foolish to blindly decide from information that is inherently flawed, like the “drmomma” or EmpowHER websites.

  10. Rachael October 14, 2011 at 23:57 #

    Why would we vaccinate our babies with 40+ vaccines by the time they are two when Finland and Sweden only vaccinate their babies with 11 and 12 vaccines? Is it really necessary?

    USA 41+
    Austria 30
    Denmark 21
    Finland 11
    Germany 33
    Hungary 15
    Iceland 12
    Italy 15
    Sweden 12
    UK 25

    Source: http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/janak/080605

    • Sullivan October 15, 2011 at 00:20 #

      “Is it really necessary?”

      Show me that when a country avoids a given vaccine that they have the same or lower incidence of that disease.

      The simple answer is, no, it isn’t necessary to give as many vaccines as we do. We can accept that more children in the United States will suffer, be injured and die. We could. I chose not to. I think that protecting children from infectious disease is a good thing. Do you disagree?

  11. Samantha Pierce October 15, 2011 at 00:11 #

    “Why would we vaccinate our babies with 40+ vaccines by the time they are two when Finland and Sweden only vaccinate their babies with 11 and 12 vaccines? Is it really necessary?”

    You haven’t made a case for why we shouldn’t in this comment thread of the other one you’ve been commenting on. Counting each instance of an injection as a different vaccine is a cheap attempt to play on people’s emotions. I don’t do emotional manipulation ma’am. Last I checked the recommended US vaccination covered 16 diseases.

    If the internet had been around in the 1700s when the first vaccine was developed I imagine the Rachels of that time would have been all over it denouncing the evils of the small pox vaccine and how the disease itself was anywhere near as bad as the large scale death and disfigurement that came with small pox.

  12. Rachael October 15, 2011 at 00:23 #

    Parents may want to consider the vaccination schedules of some European countries that have significantly lower rates of autism, child mortality, and mandated vaccines:

    http://www.14studies.org/nowwhat.html

    • Sullivan October 15, 2011 at 00:36 #

      “some European countries that have significantly lower rates of autism, child mortality, and mandated vaccines:”

      Do they? Do they really?

      Generation Rescue put out a pseudo-study claiming that child mortality rates were lower in countries with fewer vaccines. First off, this isn’t true. Second off, child mortality has dropped dramatically in the years that the number of vaccines has increased. Third, the definition of a live birth is very different in the U.S. than in other countries, making the comparison difficult.

      One of us has looked at the data: https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2011/10/childhood-mortality-and-vaccines/

      Second, the GR pseudo-study was so dishonest as to make it clear that the author is not a person of integrity at all. They compared autism rates in various countries–at very different times. As in decades apart.

      Again, one of us has looked at the data (and that one is not you) https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2009/05/generation-rescue-a-dishonest-autism-charity/

      Did you actually read and analyze what was put in front of you, or do you just place links to sources that you agree with?

  13. Chris October 15, 2011 at 00:25 #

    Rachael, why do you want haemophilus influenzae type b to come back? Why do you want children to suffer with dozens to hundreds of painful itchy open wounds that can lead to secondary bacterial infections when they get chicken pox?

    Why have you not answered with actual science?

  14. MikeMa October 15, 2011 at 00:29 #

    14 Studies? Seriously? That crap has been discredited for a while now.

    BTW, those other, lower autism European countries have significantly different criteria for autism. Apples & oranges. The real question is do they have higher rates of preventable disease?

  15. Rachael October 15, 2011 at 00:31 #

    There is growing suspicion that immunization against relatively harmless childhood diseases may be responsible for the dramatic increase in autoimmune diseases since mass inoculations were introduced. These are fearful diseases such as cancer, leukemia. rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, Lou Gehrig’s disease, lupus erythematosus, and the Guillain-Barre syndrome. An autoimmune disease can be explained simply as one in which the body’s defense mechanisms cannot distinguish between foreign invaders and ordinary body tissues, with the consequence that the body begins to destroy itself. Have we traded mumps and measles for cancer and leukemia?

    • Sullivan October 15, 2011 at 00:38 #

      “There is growing suspicion that….”

      What I look for is evidence. Not suspicion. I can find suspicion for just about anything.

      Rachael, you have long since worn out your welcome. You fail repeatedly to answer key questions. You dodge and weave. You have made this basically the “Rachael Show”. Good for you. You got your message out. I only wish everyone out there was an unconvincing as you are.

  16. Chris October 15, 2011 at 00:34 #

    Rachael, why do you refuse to answer my questions? What about using no websites, and to just post the journal, title and date of the scientific studies do you not understand.

    From the “About us” section of the latest website:

    This website was compiled by the founders of Generation Rescue, Jenny McCarthy’s autism organization. Generation Rescue is a parent-founded and parent-led non-profit organization with more than 1,000 parent volunteers all over the world.

    Please tell us why you would believe an actress over real scientists? Is she more qualified than the infectious disease doctor who wrote this:
    http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/14-studies-later/

    I would like to thank the Fourteen studies for their website. Anyone who takes the time to read all the articles will come away convinced of the safety of both thimerosal and the MMR vaccine, especially in contrast to the quality of ‘our’ studies that purport a causation. The moving target of the cause of autism appears to be shifting to aluminum and too much too soon. I’m skeptical on biologic plausibility grounds. I am as certain as I can be (i.e. I am one, preferable more, high quality studies in a high impact journal from changing my mind) that the vaccines, both separately and together, are many logs safer than the diseases they prevent.

  17. Science Mom October 15, 2011 at 00:35 #

    Parents may want to consider the vaccination schedules of some European countries that have significantly lower rates of autism, child mortality, and mandated vaccines:

    You are not only comparing apples to oranges but are incorrect about lower rates of autism and infant mortality. First, your Nirvana countries have different healthcare systems, economic bases, disease prevalence and infant mortality metrics. Autism prevalence in Sweden hit 1% long before the U.S. did and autism rates in Western countries are on par with the U.S.

  18. Chris October 15, 2011 at 00:36 #

    Rachael:

    There is growing suspicion that immunization against relatively harmless childhood diseases may be responsible for the dramatic increase in autoimmune diseases since mass inoculations were introduced.

    Citation please. And again, just post the journal, title and date of the scientific papers that support this assertion. Again, NO websites!

  19. Chris October 15, 2011 at 00:41 #

    Science Mom:

    Autism prevalence in Sweden hit 1% long before the U.S. did and autism rates in Western countries are on par with the U.S.

    Sweden also had unnecessary cases of pertussis, with deaths, when they reduced the use of pertussis vaccine. Rachael would know this if she had actually clicked on the Lancet paper I posted earlier:
    Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story

    You should really look at the plot of neighboring countries with different levels of pertussis vaccination.

  20. Rachael October 15, 2011 at 00:58 #

    Cochrane researcher T. Jefferson observed “vaccines are a business, like any other. The only difference is that governments are co-sponsors with industry … overestimation of the threat by the target diseases, suppression of data on adverse events, and exaggeration of effectiveness are frequent. In the case of population vaccination programs, both governments and industry have conflicts of interest. Beware!”

  21. Do'C October 15, 2011 at 01:19 #

    “Why would we vaccinate our babies with 40+ vaccines by the time they are two…”

    Uh, Rachael (or the quoted Ms. Janak), we don’t.

    Seriously, do you not see the problem with the counting chart you linked to that leads to 40 number?

    Here’s a hint. Do you think infants under 2 really receive 8 Hepatitis B vaccinations? Or do you think perhaps Ms. Janak didn’t actually read or understand the information on the U.S. recommended childhood immunization schedule?

    Not that it’s relevant, but perhaps you care to demonstrate a just a bit of accuracy and tell us the true count for under age 2, so you can carry that number forward in your future discussions.

  22. Mikey October 15, 2011 at 08:11 #

    Thou doth protesteth too much. Much too much……

  23. Chris October 15, 2011 at 09:19 #

    Who are you talking to, Mikey?

  24. Sullivan October 17, 2011 at 18:30 #

    Thankfully this is slowing down. I was waiting for the obviouys next steps (links to whale.to, naturalnews, Dr. Mercola, Dr. Blaylock…)

    • Sullivan October 17, 2011 at 18:33 #

      Wrote too soon. Rachael is welcome to frighten people with her half understanding of infectious diseases and immunizations elsewhere.

  25. stanley seigler October 22, 2011 at 04:42 #

    not sure which thread which to post this to…but will try here.

    just wondering…

    seems LBRB shuts down those who disagree with their VAX position and other positions…ie, thread is shut down after those who agree with LBRB…not after those who have issues with LBRB (and favorites) positions.

    stanley seigler

  26. Chris October 22, 2011 at 05:28 #

    Mr. Seigler, you still need to address the issues that are actually noted in the articles. Not the ones you think are there.

    You posted a comment about which book you thought I meant, but I had not mentioned it in that thread. Please stay on topic, remember that sometimes the issues of one thread do not translate to another thread, use full sentences with standard punctuation, and to back up any statement you make with real evidence. None of those issues are just about the subject of vaccines.

    I am also unable to post on that other thread, because I was going to tell you that I only mentioned one book on that thread. Plus you are not “shut down” if you posted here.

  27. stanley seigler October 22, 2011 at 15:09 #

    [chris say] Mr. Seigler, you still need to address the issues that are actually noted in the articles. Not the ones you think are there.

    COMMENT: old saw say, “practice what you preach”

    [chris say] You posted a comment about which book you thought I meant, but I had not mentioned it in that thread.

    COMMENT: the fact, there were two books mentioned in that thread…you one i one…i asked for clarification…to which you did not respond (your SOP)…but made an irrelevant, incorrect, comment re a page count error.

    [chris say] Please stay on topic,

    COMMENT: again, old saw say: practice what you preach…none of your comments here relate to this thread, “autism blogger…still failing”

    [chris say] remember that sometimes the issues of one thread do not translate to another thread,

    COMMENT: “remember” old saw say, “practice what you preach”

    [chris say] use full sentences with standard punctuation, and to back up any statement you make with real evidence. None of those issues are just about the subject of vaccines.

    COMMENT: i dont need nor like “full sentences with standard punctuation”…if you do not understand my comments…dont respond with a list of unnecessay references…further the painfully obvious does not need more evidence for anyone…except maybe chris.

    [chris say] I am also unable to post on that other thread, because I was going to tell you that I only mentioned one book on that thread. Plus you are not “shut down” if you posted here.

    COMMENT: i referred to one thread not LBRB in totum…why do you pick nits…and move the goal post…

    THE END

    stanley seigler

    ps. “Please stay on topic”

  28. Chris October 22, 2011 at 16:48 #

    Is it really too much to ask that you use full sentences and standard punctuation? I still don’t understand what you are saying, or why I should care.

    And again, the vaccination issue is not based on opinion, but on the data. I posted only a portion of the data, if you have any to support other conclusions then please post it.

    As far as on topic: protection from pertussis is not guaranteed even after getting the disease. The best option is to give the DTaP series to children, and to make sure older children and adults have the Tdap. This is to assure herd immunity to protect those who are too young for the vaccine, those who cannot become immune to pertussis and those whose immunity has worn off.

  29. stanley seigler October 22, 2011 at 18:50 #

    @chris

    thanks for the links (references)…tho most above my paygrade…they seem to sustain my opinion 🙂

  30. Chris October 22, 2011 at 23:01 #

    So you agree that the data supports vaccination, and that the vaccines are far safer than the diseases. Thank you.

  31. stanley seigler October 24, 2011 at 18:03 #

    to LBRB: have submittedd the below several times…but is not posted…pls advise…and if acceptable: pls post and delete all except the latest.
    stanley seigler

    THE BELOW
    [chris say] So you agree that the data supports vaccination, and that the vaccines are far safer than the diseases.

    always have…i didn’t need supporting data…also believe vaccines can in rare instances, cause damage…

    i never have understood the arguments/discussion (VAX v anti) made on LBRB…many seem to agree but talk pass the painfully obvious…which is:

    “Vaccines have saved untold millions of lives, and the vast majority of people who get them suffer no major problems.” and “…experts don’t dispute that vaccine can, in rare instances, cause brain damage.”

    quote from somewhere comes to mind, “it seems to be a common defect of human minds that tend to crave for complete certainty of belief or disbelief.” (something like that)

    there is no “complete certainty”…

    stanley seigler

  32. stanley seigler November 8, 2011 at 16:41 #

    LBRB

    RE: stanley seigler Your comment is awaiting moderation. October 30th, 2011, 01:49:37

    please delete my post…probably posted to wrong thread…

    stabley seigler

    • Sullivan November 8, 2011 at 19:33 #

      Stanley,

      that comment was the same as 2011/11/01 at 00:47:45. I’ll delete the duplicates.

  33. Amanda January 30, 2012 at 23:26 #

    Dear Parent:
    We are seeking volunteers to participate in a research study about what it’s like to grow up with a sibling who has autism. Do you meet the following requirements?
    1. Are you the parent of at least two children?
    2. Does one of your children have an autism spectrum disorder?
    3. Does one of your children not have an autism spectrum disorder?
    4. Is your child without autism between the ages of 8 and 18 years?
    If so, please consider volunteering by clicking on the link below. The survey will take approximately 45 minutes to complete and may be taken at a computer of your choice that has internet access. The first part of the survey will be taken by you. The second part will be taken by your child that does not have an autism spectrum disorder.
    If you would like to volunteer to take this survey, please click on https://www.psychdata.com/s.asp?SID=144893
    and read the consent information at the beginning of the survey. We will not collect your name or that of your child. However, there is a potential risk of loss of confidentiality in all email, downloading, and internet transactions.
    If you have any questions, please contact Kathy DeOrnellas, Ph.D., Principal Investigator at kdeornellasphd@gmail.com or 940-898-2315 at Texas Woman’s University.
    Thank you,
    Kathy DeOrnellas, Ph.D.

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