Autism, Denmark and again no link with vaccines.

25 Aug

For a while now, I’ve been hoping that someone would publish data on the current state autism prevalence by birth year in Denmark. Denmark has been used for epidemiological studies for autism since their is a national database for health care. Thus, one can obtain a count of all people in Denmark who have been diagnosed with autism. Which is not the same thing as saying they have a count of all people in the country who are autistic. One can be autistic and not be diagnosed, as we will see.

A recent study using the Danish database is Recurrence of Autism Spectrum Disorders in Full- and Half-Siblings and Trends Over Time: A Population-Based Cohort Study. It’s an interesting study and I feel somewhat guilty for pulling the time-trend data out for my own discussion. In short, the study found that if a family has one child who is autistic, the chance for a subsequent child to be autistic is about 7 times higher than for families without an autistic child. This is fairly consistent with many other sibling studies over the years, but much lower than found in the recent baby siblings study out of the MIND Institute. That might be due to the active surveillance used by the team at MIND. I.e. they were actively monitoring and testing baby siblings.

Much more, they conclude:

Although the results from our comparison of recurrence in full- and half-siblings support the role of genetics in ASDs, the significant recurrence in maternal half-siblings may support the idea of a contributing role of factors associated with pregnancy and the maternal intrauterine environment. Finally, the lack of a time trend in the relative recurrence risk in our data suggests that the likely combination of genetic and environmental factors contributes to the risk for ASD recurrence in siblings or that the risk for recurrence because of such factors has not been affected by the rise in the ASD prevalence.

Very interesting–whatever is behind the higher prevalence among younger siblings, it seems to be the same today as 30 years ago.

What’s the overall prevalence of autism in Denmark according to this study? For childhood autism, they report 0.3%. For all ASD’s, 1.2%.

Autism, we are told by those promoting the autism/vaccine link, is unmistakable. Each autism prevalence report is not an estimate, but an accurate count of every autsitic because there is no way to miss an autistic. Back in the day, Rick Rollens was a constant fixture in the news on autism. He was a strong proponent of the idea that one could not miss autism:

WATSON:
Like many parents, Rick is convinced that Russell was damaged by a series of vaccinations. He strongly rejects the idea that the epidemic of autism can be entirely explained by poor diagnosis in the past because numbers have rose over the last few years.

ROLLENS:
Missing child with autism is like missing a train wreck. For us now to now think that somehow we have better identified a child who can’t talk, who has repetitive behaviour. Who makes no eye contact. Who is self- involved and in many cases self-abusive just defies logic.

Mr. Rollens was wrong on two counts (leaving aside his inflammatory and derogatory language). First, autism is not just the child who can not talk, self-involved and self-abusive. Second, yes, a lot of autistics have been missed. We’ve seen that time and time again. Look at the same population at different times and the later study will have found more autistics. An this goes for autistics with intellectual disability, as shown in the recent UCLA/Utah autism followup: “Today’s diagnostic criteria applied to participants ascertained in the 1980s identified more cases of autism with intellectual disability. “

But, what about Denmark? A study from 10 years ago looked at autism incidence following the removal of thimerosal in Denmark in 1992. Thimerosal and the occurrence of autism: negative ecological evidence from Danish population-based data

In that study they found 956 children born in their study period who were diagnosed with autism by 2000:

A total of 956 children with a male to female ratio of 3.5:1 had been diagnosed with autism during the period 1971–2000.

The current Denmark study included individuals diagnosed until the end of 2010. I.e. there were 10 more years of followup. In those 10 years a lot more people were diagnosed. Where there were 956 diagnosed with autism by 2000 (for birth years 1971 to 2000), 2321 were diagnosed by 2010. That’s an increase of 240%. And the new study focused on birth years 1980 to 1999. I.e. the entire 1970’s birth cohort is not included in this count, and they still found over twice as many autistics. Where were they in 2000, when the previous study was performed? Living in Denmark, not identified as autistic.

There are a few factors which are likely behind this increase, but here we have a great example of “increased awareness” affecting autism prevalence.

And, those numbers were for childhood autism. For ASD, the increase is even larger. 10,377 Danes had an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis (for birth years 1980-1999) in the new study (the previous study included none). That’s a whopping 1080% increase. Again, there are a few reasons for this (including the increased awareness above), but here’s what “expanding the definition” does to autism.

Those increases would be an “epidemic” to some if it weren’t for the fact that those autistic Danes were there all along. They just weren’t diagnosed in 2000.

For many years, groups touting the idea that vaccines cause autism have pointed to Denmark as part of their argument. Denmark uses fewer vaccines than the U.S.. Generation Rescue used to have this on their website discussion of vaccines:

Comment: Denmark is a first world country based in Western Europe. Their schedule appears far more reasonable than ours. They have also been reported to have a much lower rate of autism than the U.S. Do they know something we don’t?

What was that Danish vaccine schedule that Generation Rescue recommended?

DTaP at 3, 5 and 12 months
Hib at 3, 5 and 12 months
IPV at 3, 5 and 12 months, plus 5 years
MMR at 15 months and 12 years

No mercury (Denmark phased that out in 1992). No birth dose of Hepatitis B. Fewer vaccines overall than in the U.S.. And the same autism prevalence of about 1%.

If you dive into more details, it gets even worse for the vaccines and/or thimerosal cause autism argument. Let’s look at the prevalence as a function of birth year for childhood autism and ASD from the recent study:

AutismPrevalenceDenmark

Consider this statement from a previous study:

This means that children who followed the full vaccination program during the period 1961–1970 had received a total of 400 g of thimerosal or 200 g of ethyl mercury by the age of 15 months and during the period 1970–1992 they had received a total of 250 g of thimerosal or 125 g of ethyl mercury at 10 months of age. In March 1992 the last batch of thimerosalcontaining vaccine was released and distributed from Statens Serum Institut in Denmark.

The thimerosal exposure was higher prior to 1992 than after. But the prevalence of both childhood autism and ASD is higher after the removal of thimerosal. This is the same result as shown in the 2003 study. The number of vaccines seems to be constant over this time period, so number of vaccines/aluminum/too-many-too-soon or other arguments don’t work either.

How about taking just a single year. The prevalence for ASD in 1996-97 was 1.4%. What is the autism prevalence in the U.S. for that year? To answer accurately, I’d contend we need a count today, not an old one. But people promoting the idea that vaccines cause autism take the CDC reports as absolute measures of autism, comparing each report and telling us all about the epidemic. So, let’s take the CDC number for kids born in 1994: 0.8%. That study was reported in 2009.

So, we have 1.4% in Denmark and 0.8%, nearly half the Danish prevalence, in the U.S.. Denmark had no thimerosal, no Hepatitis B shot (birth or otherwise), fewer vaccines and less aluminum exposure. And much higher reported autism prevalence.

Oddly enough, even though there have been many prevalence studies out of Denmark, Tomljenovic and Shaw didn’t include Denmark in their study “Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to the rising prevalence of autism?” My guess is that Denmark didn’t fit their conclusion then, and, like Iceland, would make their analysis fall apart now. It is even more odd that Tomljenovic and Shaw didn’t use Denmark as Denmark was used in a faux-study put out by Generation Rescue. In AUTISM AND VACCINES AROUND THE WORLD: Vaccine Schedules, Autism Rates, and Under 5 Mortality Someone at Generation Rescue made the first attempt at the sleight of hand of comparing the autism prevalence in various countries vs their vaccine schedules. At that time, 2009, Generation Rescue claimed that the autism prevalence in Denmark was 1 in 2,200, misrepresenting the 2003 study discussed here. The raw prevalence in this 2008 study was 0.65% or about 1 in 153. That value didn’t fit the thesis that the Generation Rescue author wanted to convey.

One argument found on the internet is that the 2003 Denmark paper fudged the results by clipping the last years off the data presented. An email involving people involved in the study is quoted as saying, “But the incidence and prevalence are still decreasing in 2001“. Oh, my, we are told, the autism prevalence and incidence actually went down after the removal of thimerosal!

But, it didn’t. The prevalence of childhood autism (basically what was studied in the 2003 paper) in Denmark is flat from birth cohorts 1996-2004. Flat. The prevalence of ASD’s do see a decline. That must be it! Evidence that thimerosal was causing autism in Denmark! But it isn’t. The prevalence of ASD in 2003-04 is the same as that in 1990-91, before thimerosal was removed. Why does the ASD prevalence go down? We can’t say for sure, but my strong suspicion is that it’s the same reason why the authors in 2003 were seeing a decrease: too few years of follow up. Autistic kids are typically diagnosed earlier than those with other ASD’s, but the average age was about 5 in Denmark in 2003 (as I recall). ASD kids can have an average age of diagnosis of 8. Recall that the recently released study followed kids up to the end of 2010. It’s no surprise to me that the estimated prevalence for ASD kids born in 2002 is lower than that for kids born in 2000 in this study. And this is consistent with the flat prevalence for kids with childhood autism diagnoses, as they are typically diagnosed earlier and 8-9 years would be enough to find the majority of the autistics in that population.

What about the idea that there’s a “changepoint” in the autism prevalence in Denmark and California pointing to some event in the late 1980s that’s contributing to autism prevalence? For one thing, the present study notes that the recurrence risk doesn’t change with time, so that’s good evidence against such an idea. There is no changepoint in the California data in the 1980’s, as it is exponential and fitting it to two straight lines is just a mistake. What about the prevalence data just released? The data are not finely spaced in birth years, in my opinion, to give a good idea of any “changepoints” in the 1980’s. But there is a changepoint of sorts in the childhood autism data in the 1990’s. The data plateaus at about 1996. But, as already noted, this doesn’t coincide with anything related to vaccines. The ASD prevalence appears to peak at about 1994, but, again, this doesn’t coincide with vaccine events and, I suspect, results largely from lack of follow up for the kids in the later birth years.

How about the MMR vaccine? MMR uptake for young children (MMR1) was basically flat from 1987-1997. Uptake rose somewhat after that. So, during the period that the estimated prevalence was increasing, MMR uptake was basically flat. During the time that the estimated prevalence was either flat (childhood autism) or decreasing (ASD’s), the MMR uptake was increasing. So if we were to play the “correlation equals causation” game, MMR prevents autism. (two notes, preventing rubella infections most likely does prevent some autism and the link above shows a nice example of rubella infections going down after MMR was introduced in 1987. The two points are not linked because most women in Denmark who were infected with rubella before 18 weeks gestation chose abortion, resulting in a low congenital rubella syndrome prevalence).

How about the “fetal cells in vaccines cause autism” argument? It’s one without biological plausibility, but then so was the thimerosal idea. I’d be interested in seeing how the vaccines were produced in Denmark in the 1990’s, but at present, the MMR vaccine there is developed using chicken eggs, not fetal cell lines. And they don’t routinely vaccinate against chickenpox, another vaccine in the U.S. using fetal cell lines. It looks like at least as far back as 1999 they were using egg-based vaccine production for MMR.

So, it appears we have a country with no vaccines grown in fetal cell lines with an autism prevalence as high or higher than that in the U.S.. In other words, the “vaccines from fetal cell lines caused the ‘autism epidemic’ theory” also appears to be debunked by the Denmark data.

In case you are looking for correlations with the vaccine program, here’s the history in Denmark.

So, how about the rise in estimated prevalence in the 1980’s. Is it “real”, as in does it represent an actual increase in the fraction of autistics in the population? It’s a good question and one which could be answered by performing a real study of autism prevalence in adults. The sort of study I and others have called for in the U.S., but that most autism-parent advocacy groups have refused to support. Such a study would not only answer the question of the prevalence, but it would give us valuable data on what has led to success and failure among the autistic adult population.

For those promoting the idea that environmental mercury emissions are a factor in the increase of autism rates, if you have data for Denmark, I’d love to see it. In the U.S., environmental mercury emissions dropped by over 50% in the 1990’s.

Lastly, let’s discuss a comment statement one will read or hear. It goes something like “the autism prevalence was 1 in 10,000 in 1980 and it’s 1 in 1,000 today”. This involves a number of sleights of hand. First, the autism prevalence wasn’t 1 in 10,000 in 1980. It was a few in 10,000 (Wing and Gould reported about 5/10,000). Doesn’t sound like a big deal, but when people start taking ratios (it went up a gazillion percent) a factor of 2 or 3 in the denominator makes a difference. Second, this was the estimated prevalence based on the number of autistics diagnosed at the time. As shown above, the childhood autism prevalence estimate for Denmark in the 1980’s increased by 240% in the past decade. This was not a real increase, but better identification. Third, the comparison is between autism (childhood autism, DSM-III autism or some other restrictive definition) vs. autism spectrum disorders. Also shown above was that the prevalence of ASD’s in the 1980’s increased by a factor of 10, increasing only in the past 10 years.

A factor of 10 in the numerator, a factor of 3 or 4 in the denominator and pretty soon you are talking about a big part of the increases observed.

In the end, none of the above arguments are that new. Or, to put it better, none of the vaccines-cause-autism arguments had much real support. The mercury idea has lost much of the support it had 10 years ago in the parent community, but it persists. The aluminum in vaccines idea has risen to try to take the place of the mercury hypothesis, but it is based on the exact same smoke and mirrors. The idea that the increase in autism is due to the MMR has been scientifically dead for years. And, yet, these ideas persist. And they cause harm, both to the community at large and to the autism community.


Matt Carey

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24 Responses to “Autism, Denmark and again no link with vaccines.”

  1. Paula maddison-green August 25, 2013 at 10:10 #

    Matt

    I have posted your interesting article onto linkedin.com so that a group from across the world called Parents with Aspergers Teens can see it. The more people that see it the better I think.

    Regards

    Paula Maddison Green Mum with a little boy with high functioning ASD

  2. Robert Jensen August 25, 2013 at 11:11 #

    The Baby Sibs Consortium reported a 19% recurrence rate in children with an older sibling. If entire segments of the population are excluded from a sample, then there are no adjustments that can reliably produce accurate estimates that are representative of the entire population. All of the Baby Sibs Consortium are heavily recruited volunteer families and include less than 700 families combined to date in contrast to the Danish sibling recurrence study sample of over 1,200,000 children, a population based study that included all children born in Denmark. The ascertainment bias in self-selected volunteer samples has been well documented in epidemiology. In autism this has been seen in the narrowly defined twin studies. The 1995 British twin study produced an MZ concordance rate of 60% and a DZ twin concordance rate of 0%, the implication being that there is no recurrence in siblings for narrowly defined autism. Ritvo in 1985 found a concordance for narrowly defined autism in 40 twin pairs of 95.7% in the monozygotic twins (22 of 23) and 23.5% in the dizygotic twins (four of 17). The British study recruited willing families by advertisement and requests for volunteers by contacting clinicians and special schools. Classical twin study design cannot factor in the high rate of de novo gene mutations in autism therefore the autism twin study heritability estimates are also greatly inflated. The best epidemiology studies as far as autism is concerned is coming out of Scandinavia (Denmark and Norway) because they are entire general population studies. The Scandinavian countries for decades have been recording the health and mental health records of all its citizens from the womb through the grave beginning with the socialized health system which covers all Norwegian and Danish citizens. In the last decade the Scandinavians have digitalized the national health and national mental health registries records of all their citizens and the records of more than 3 million children are now available to researchers throughout the world. Epidemiology general population research is now increasingly being produced by the Danish and Norwegian research groups. In the last few months they have produced general population research that found a 7% sibling recurrence rate. a high autism risk associated with prenatal exposure to anti-convulsant drugs. A study that found a high risk for autism in prenatal Valproate Acid exposure and pre-conception and prenatal folic acid supplementation reduces the risk for autism. The Danes also found no association between vaccination and autism risk.

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134

    Compare that to the US with a hodge podge of clinic and volunteer based research programs.

  3. Doreen Parsons August 25, 2013 at 11:59 #

    ” …received a total of 400 g of thimerosal or 200 g of ethyl mercury by the age of 15 months…” Shouldn’t this be mcg?

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 25, 2013 at 14:59 #

      thanks–you are correct. I didn’t check carefully enough and the special characters didn’t copy.

      • Doreen Parsons August 26, 2013 at 04:57 #

        That’s why I typed mcg instead of µ (mu)

  4. usethebrainsgodgiveyou August 25, 2013 at 14:18 #

    This caught my eye (or mind, as the case may be)
    >>Le chat ouvrit les yeux, Le soleil y entra
    oops, wrong paste
    >>>For ASD, the increase is even larger. 10,377 Danes had an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis (for birth years 1980-1999) in the new study (the previous study included none).

    Earlier:
    >>>Where there were 956 diagnosed with autism by 2000 (for birth years 1971 to 2000), 2321 were diagnosed by 2010.

    So, ~ 7700 are adults who have been diagnosed as adults…is that correct? That would be ~75% of those diagnosed as autistic in Denmark are given the diagnosis as adults, if so. That’s interesting…

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 25, 2013 at 14:58 #

      We don’t know how many off these adults had a different diagnosis in 2000 or what those diagnoses might be. They didn’t have a diagnosis of childhood autism. They could have had an ASD diagnosis (PDD-NOS or Asperger) but they were not reported in earlier study.

      Also, in 2000 many of those born in the 1980’s were not yet adults.

    • John Fryer October 22, 2013 at 22:48 #

      Diagnosis of worth for autism does take a very long time.

      Today we are effectively still getting figures just up to 2000 with only wild guesses what is happening in the past ten and more years.

      I also note that the vaccine schedule starts only at 3 months for Denmark and surely a point of major interest?

      USA starts now in the womb but for all by day one.

      UK begins at 2 months.

      The longer the first vaccine the approximately less cases of autism perhaps although as for all such generalistions it cannot mean much unless we reverse the accelerated vaccine schedules for a decelerated schedule which hardly seems likely at present?

      Current research is again showing the self evident that the longer we wait the better the vaccines works. And again while in Denmark MMR comes at 15 months other countries start always at 12 months with many going through the 9 month barrier towards 6 months.

  5. Darwy August 25, 2013 at 15:17 #

    I’d also like to add that the Danish Schedule put forth by Generation Rescue is incorrect – the Danish schedule has more vaccines than that.

    DTaP/IPV/HiB+PN at 3, 5 and 12 months.
    MMR at 15 months and 4 years (12 if you haven’t had two previous doses)
    DTaP/IPV booster a 5 years
    HPV at 12 years
    Rubella at 18 (in the form of an MMR normally)

    http://www.sst.dk/publ/Publ2010/CFF/English/BoerneVaccinationsPrgr_en.pdf

    • John Fryer October 22, 2013 at 23:02 #

      The Danish vaccine schedule has a serious flaw.

      Many who are concerned about vaccine harm would insist that head size measurements must be done both immediately before and a reasonable time after when any head change would still be expected to be zero.

      The reason is simple it would pick up INFLAMMATION a known event parallel to immunity as shown by Charles Richet, repeated by hundreds of vaccine scientists but ignored to the detriment of babies future health.

      Not only would it indicate easily and cheaply any future health issues but medical intervention could reduce vaccine harm unexpected to near zero rather than ferment trouble with no parental or medical knowledge of future disaster now at over 1 per cent in some countries.

      A simple observation of many baby photos with bulging fontanelles is the give away for fermenting possible brain disorders for a disproportionate number of such infants.

      Many will be the cause of family breakdown as parents are actually accused for these head swelling events in ever rising numbers.

  6. Jon Hewitt September 7, 2013 at 11:36 #

    Matt,

    I enjoyed your article concerning Danish ASD prevalence, and intentional debunking of the vaccines cause autism camp. Well written, however as is the case with most pro-vaccine publications they can often be inconclusive or somewhat misleading. Such is the case. My sincere wish is that you will post this comment so your readers can get the other side of the story. I am the father of an autistic child, so are hundreds of thousands of other parents for whom I will speak.
    For the most part you have taken great detail in presenting statistical information on Denmark, and some statistical information on the U.S.. Statistics can be manipulated. Prior to 1930 the ASD prevalence rate was effectively “zero.” Prior to 1980 it was 1:10,000. Now the U.S. ASD prevalence rate is 1:50 (1:34 for boys). You say the reason for this increase, in part, that we’re diagnosing the disease better. This is not entirely true. Methodological diagnoses have remained relatively unchanged for years. Graduating from high school in 1977, I didn’t know what autism was, and never heard the word mentioned. Today most everyone is aware of autism, and either knows somebody with the disease, or has a family member who is affected. They weren’t there all along. Our own government acknowledges autism as an “epidemic,” that word was never mentioned in your article, and there’s no such thing as a “genetic epidemic.”
    You can cite all the facts, and statistics you want, disproving vaccines cause autism, or that vaccines are safe. Until you’ve been affected personally, or have a child experience a bad reaction to a vaccination that results in autism, then you might adopt a different point of view. Consider the case of Hanna Poling. Hanna received five shots against nine diseases in one day. DTaP, Haemophilus Influenza type B (Hib), MMR, varicella, and inactivated polio.
    Medical examiners at the DHHS concluded that Hanna’s injuries, and autism were the result of vaccines. The Poling’s were awarded an initial sum of $1.5 million for pain and suffering, lost earnings, and life care. They will receive an additional $500,000 dollars a year for Hanna’s care. Total compensation could easily exceed $20 million dollars.
    Since the first VICP claims were made in 1989, a total of $2.27 billion in payments have been made to 2,900 petitioners. Since the inception of the VICP program, no less than 83 cases of autism have been compensated. The government has been less than forthright to the public about the casual relationship between thimerosal and autism. The government has in fact already proved that there is an association between thimerosal and neurodevelopmental disorders. They just don’t want you to know. This was proven by Dr. Thomas Verstreaten, who at the time was a resident expert for the CDC, and with the NIP. In July 2000 he presented his findings at the Simpsonwood Retreat Center. He found statistically significant relationships between the exposures and outcomes, at one, three, and six months of age. The entire category of neurolodevelopmental delays.
    Information and proof of an association, can also be found in the Vaccine Safety Data-link. The VSD contains data on vaccine type, date of vaccination, current vaccinations, medical outcomes of outpatient, inpatient, and urgent care visits. Data on birth and census, and comparisons of the MMR vaccine, versus children who receive MMR and varicella vaccine separately. The VSD report investigations of their findings to VAERS. The CDC estimates only 10% of all adverse reactions to vaccines ever get reported, and as few as one percent.
    Many people have criticized the Geier’s over the years, that wasn’t always the case. Dr. Mark and David Geier are the only two independent researchers to ever access the VSD and see their data. No one else has, nor ever will again. It took the Geier’s years to gain access. What they found in the VSD seemed to be confirming, that the more thimerosal children got, the greater the risk they had of neurodevelopmental disorders. After leaving the VSD, their proof, and data sets were immediately destroyed. The CDC could ill afford to let this information out.
    In February 2005 the IOM came out with a report titled, Vaccine Safety Research Data Access and Public Trust. The report suggested that the 2004 IOM was flawed, criterial was changed inappropriately, and that the government data was manipulated and withheld. One day after the report was released, director of the CDC, Dr. Julie Gerberding fired the entire Vaccine Immunization Program. The 2004 IOM results, and all other studies that claimed no association to neurological disorders had been discredited.
    On September 20, 2002, congressional order to VSD from the government, that they let a contract, and paid $195 million to a private company to kept anyone from seeing the VSD over a period of ten years. I have a copy of the contract, #200-2002-00732, which also has been renewed. The whole U.S. policy on the controversial issue, of giving children vaccinations at birth, is based on a study that no one has access to.
    Thimerosal was removed from Danish vaccines in 1992. “Thimerosal and the Occurrence of Autism:Negative Ecological Evidence,” was based on Danish population, and was co-authored by Dr. Poul Thorsen. The study was also “fast-tracked” for publication in “Pediatrics” in 2003. Actually, the study did claim that autism went up after thimerosal was removed from the vaccines, based on data between 1970 and 2000. And yes, the Danish Registry added outpatient clinics to the total count of autism cases. Denmark also changed their version of our comparable DSM IV in 1993, to include a broader definition of autism.
    Of the seven co-authors, three received direct funding from the CDC on vaccine safety related projects. Two of the authors worked for the Statens Serum Institute. Still, Dr. Poul Thorsen was indicted in April 2001, on 22 counts of money laundering and fraud. He remains at the top of the “most wanted list” for the HHS Office of Inspector General. The total misrepresentation of this study went a long ways in reinforcing the “non-existent” body of evidence, as cited by the CDC’s claim to disproved the association of thimerosal to autism. You can rearrange the statistics any way you want.
    Scientifically speaking, there are all kinds of reasons not to inject thimerosal into the human body, unless you really don’t like someone. Thimerosal is 49.6% ethyl mercury, mercury is the most harmful toxin known to man, next to plutonium. A single drop of mercury can contaminate an entire lake. According to EPA, a child would have to weigh several hundred pounds, to be within safety guidelines of following our recommended vaccination schedule. The suggested recommended vaccine scheduled is ludicrous. If any child adheres to the schedule faithfully, they will have received well over 100 vaccines, and at least 49 vaccinations prior to reaching their sixth birthday. We live in a world with mercury, we get a certain amount of mercury in our bodies daily. However, some people, and children, do not have the ability to flush it out of their systems like the rest of us. It is possible for anyone to exceed the total mercury body burden their system will allow.
    Aluminum is a known neurotoxin. What you neglected to mention were all the other harmful ingredients that are added to vaccines. Phenoxyethanol (Antifreeze), Formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde (Pesticide, embalming agent), sodium borate (used for Cockroach killer), hydrolyzed gelatin (ground animal carcass), monosodium L-glumate (Obesity, Diabetes), potassium chloride (Lethal injection), potassium phosphate monobasic (liquid fertilizer agent), sodium phosphate dibasic (fireproofing agent), sodium phosphate monobasic (Known Toxin), to name only a few. You were easy to dismiss aborted human fetal cell lines with harmful contaminated retroviruses, and fragmented DNA, as a probable contributing factor towards autism. This is not entirely true either.
    Perhaps the worlds foremost leading authority on the subject of aborted fetal cell lines is Dr. Theresa A. Deisher. President and founder of SCPI. Her non-profit is dedicated to research and education on the immoral and harmful endorsement of our immunization programs current pro-fetal vaccines. She also seeks to develop fetal-free vaccines. You mentioned “change-points.” The only universal childhood factor associated with all three change-points is the introduction of vaccines contaminated with aborted fetal DNA and retroviral fragments. In 1979 the first aborted fetal vaccine was introduced to the U.S. (MMRII). In 1989 a second dose of this vaccine was added, and compliance doubled, and in 1995 another aborted fetal vaccine was introduced to the U.S., Varicella-chickenpox. SCPI has uncovered data from the CDC, and the U.S. Dept. of Education, that shows that the use of chickenpox vaccine is directly related to autism disorder prevalence in every state in the U.S.. Shorter DNA strands recombine with our own, resulting in autoimmune deficiencies. Insertional mutagenesis also occurs, this can result in cancer.
    Something else to consider, there have never been any safety studies conducted on the health outcomes of those children bombarded with multiple doses of vaccines. Scientifically speaking, you can’t claim the combination of two, or more, of any of the aforementioned adjuvants or factors don’t cause autism. Truthfully, aside from my statistics or your statistics, there is a much bigger problem than a study in Denmark.
    Obviously, there is an environmental factor involved. Suppose for a moment that vaccinations were responsible for neurodevelopmental disorders. If the CDC had to admit they were lying to the public all along, there would be a big problem. The courts would be flooded with lawsuits, and there wouldn’t be enough money to settle all the entitlement claims. Heads would roll. Current laws shield pharmaceutical companies from liability of injury or death, even if they are willfully negligent. Contrary to what HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius says, no one has shown, or continues to show that drugs and vaccines are safe or effective. Lawmakers and legislatures pockets are lined with Big pharma profits. The revolving door of employment between CDC, public health officials, and pharma is laughable. Special interests successfully hinder any meaningful level of justice, correction, or objectivity.
    Please Matt correct me if I’m wrong. If I were to assume for a moment, there was no association of vaccinations to autism. Then why are more children autistic, and why has our vaccination schedule quadrupled over the last ten years? Is it really your position that thimerosal doesn’t cause autism. Or, based on the information you currently have, is that what your willing to concede. If it were announced tomorrow that thimerosal was a problem all along, what faith would you have in your statistics?
    My guess is that your not the parent of an autistic child. I would not want to wish that upon anyone. I love my son, and I wouldn’t want him to change at all. We’re all dealt different cards. All the statistics in the world still won’t change the circumstances, or the facts

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) September 7, 2013 at 18:49 #

      ” pro-vaccine”

      Not pro-vaccine. Pro science. Pro fact. Countering misinformation, such as all the old, tired arguments you present, is not “pro-vaccines”. It isn’t pro-anything to point out that someone is incorrect.

      ” I am the father of an autistic child, so are hundreds of thousands of other parents for whom I will speak.”

      Please present your credentials. What group(s) do you represent? I recall the NAA claiming tens of thousands of dues paying members when their own tax forms showed the number to be a few hundred.

      I find your claim that you speak for “hundreds of thousands of other parents” to be unsubstantiated and

      What organization do you represent? What is their actual membership? I recall

      I am the father of an autistic child too. I don’t make grandiose claims to speak for vast numbers of others.

      I also note you make the common stance of presenting the autism community as parents. Sad how autistics are ignored. What do they think? Do you represent them too? Do you consider their viewpoints valid?

      ” Statistics can be manipulated. ”

      As the people who created the arguments you repeat have aptly demonstrated.

      “Prior to 1930 the ASD prevalence rate was effectively “zero.””

      Provide a citation. Show me a study which purports to show the prevalence rate of autism spectrum disorders in populations born pre 1930. You can’t. If you could, I would ask you to show me how they used the current definition and understanding of autism (difficult since autism spectrum disorders didn’t come into common use for 60 years after 1930).

      “Prior to 1980 it was 1:10,000.”

      Really? I’ll answer my own question. Again, you don’t have any studies using today’s methods and definition of autism pre 1980. Second, 1 in 10,000 is not even an accurate number for the prevalence of autism (not ASD) pre 1980. You are repeating numbers without checking them.

      “You say the reason for this increase, in part, that we’re diagnosing the disease better. This is not entirely true.”

      You shift goalposts in two sentences. I say that the increase (at least) in part is due to greater awareness of autism and changes in the way autism is recognized and diagnosed. That said, saying it is “in part” due to one factor can not be countered with “this is not entirely true”. If it is true in part, it is consistent with your inaccurate paraphrase of my statement.

      I also don’t use the term “disease”.

      ” Methodological diagnoses have remained relatively unchanged for years.”

      False. They are still changing. Consider the recent study which showed that whether one is diagnosed with autistic disorder, PDD-NOS or Asperger syndrome is dependent on where in the US one is at the time of diagnosis. Consider that age of diagnosis is decreasing with time. Consider that there are large variations in estimated autism prevalence by state (or within a single state), by ethnicity and by socio-economic status.

      ” Graduating from high school in 1977, I didn’t know what autism was, and never heard the word mentioned.”

      So? Why would a high school student be taught about autism?

      Check the New York Times in the 1970s. You will find an article entitled “attic children”. Even in the 1970’s disabled American children were shuttered away from the public.

      “Today most everyone is aware of autism, and either knows somebody with the disease, or has a family member who is affected. They weren’t there all along.”

      They weren’t there all along? Then why do so many studies show that if you go back and check previous populations, you find more autistics? For example, the Utah/UCLA project in the 1980’s missed a large fraction of autistics, per a recent study. And those autistics had lower IQ’s than those reported in the 1980’s.

      ” Our own government acknowledges autism as an “epidemic,””

      If this were the case, I’d be aware of it.

      ” that word was never mentioned in your article, and there’s no such thing as a “genetic epidemic.”””

      Really? Why, then is Down Syndrome (a genetic condition) prevalence rising in the US?

      “You can cite all the facts, and statistics you want, disproving vaccines cause autism, or that vaccines are safe. ”

      Are you stating that you will ignore facts?

      “Until you’ve been affected personally, or have a child experience a bad reaction to a vaccination that results in autism, then you might adopt a different point of view. ”

      I am the parent of an autistic child. My point of view is based on what I’ve found *since* the diagnosis.

      “Consider the case of Hanna Poling. Hanna received five shots against nine diseases in one day. DTaP, Haemophilus Influenza type B (Hib), MMR, varicella, and inactivated polio.
      Medical examiners at the DHHS concluded that Hanna’s injuries, and autism were the result of vaccines.”

      Medical Examiners are coroners. DHHS did not examine Hannah Poling either via a coroner or other medical expert. They did not conclude, as you assert, that her autism was the result of vaccines. Back when they included autism in the vaccine award statistics, DHHS made a clear statement that they have never conceded that vaccines cause autism.

      ” The Poling’s were awarded an initial sum of $1.5 million for pain and suffering, lost earnings, and life care. They will receive an additional $500,000 dollars a year for Hanna’s care. Total compensation could easily exceed $20 million dollars.”

      As the person who first broke the story of the Hannah Poling settlement, I am well aware of this.

      “Since the first VICP claims were made in 1989, a total of $2.27 billion in payments have been made to 2,900 petitioners. Since the inception of the VICP program, no less than 83 cases of autism have been compensated. The government has been less than forthright to the public about the casual relationship between thimerosal and autism. ”

      You are referencing the PACE study. I recall going through the cases they identified and not finding them compelling at all. One can find that discussion in this blog. For example, one case cited by the PACE study mentioned autism–however the context was that the parents were arguing that their kid was *not* autistic. Yet PACE included that in their study.

      “The government has in fact already proved that there is an association between thimerosal and neurodevelopmental disorders. They just don’t want you to know. This was proven by Dr. Thomas Verstreaten, who at the time was a resident expert for the CDC, and with the NIP. In July 2000 he presented his findings at the Simpsonwood Retreat Center. He found statistically significant relationships between the exposures and outcomes, at one, three, and six months of age. The entire category of neurolodevelopmental delays.”

      Simpsonwood was a big deal in online discussions when I first started looking for information. I wasn’t aware that this was promoted by RFK Jr. in his seriously flawed article “deadly immunity”. Note that one source has pulled it and it has had multiple corrections published. When I read the transcripts for myself I found that people were completely overstating what happened there.

      The preliminary information you discuss was not confirmed, either by the team that presented that preliminary data nor in later studies.

      ” The VSD report investigations of their findings to VAERS. ”

      The VSD does not report to VAERS. VAERS is a self-report database.

      “The CDC estimates only 10% of all adverse reactions to vaccines ever get reported, and as few as one percent.”

      Yes–and people tend to leave out a critical part of this point: minor events are much less likely to be reported than more serious adverse events. Redness, swelling, aches…those don’t get reported.

      “Many people have criticized the Geier’s over the years, that wasn’t always the case. ”

      Criticism of Mark Geier go back to the beginning of the vaccine program. In early decisions one can find the special masters pointing out that he is “intellectually dishonest” and other flaws.

      “Dr. Mark and David Geier are the only two independent researchers to ever access the VSD and see their data. ”

      Really? (no, not really). Please check pubmed for “vaccine safety datalink”. I find over 100 papers.

      “No one else has, nor ever will again.”

      The most recent study I’ve seen is from 2013.

      ” It took the Geier’s years to gain access. What they found in the VSD seemed to be confirming, that the more thimerosal children got, the greater the risk they had of neurodevelopmental disorders. After leaving the VSD, their proof, and data sets were immediately destroyed. The CDC could ill afford to let this information out.”

      Funny how you fail to mention the Geiers attempting to remove data that they were not allowed to take. It is their unethical behavior that is the likely cause for the changes to access to the VSD.

      “In February 2005 the IOM came out with a report titled, Vaccine Safety Research Data Access and Public Trust. The report suggested that the 2004 IOM was flawed, criterial was changed inappropriately, and that the government data was manipulated and withheld. ”

      Please quote the sections you claim support these assertions.

      “One day after the report was released, director of the CDC, Dr. Julie Gerberding fired the entire Vaccine Immunization Program. ”

      Really (which if you haven’t noticed yet, is my way of saying–this is not the case, please support your claim)? The whole program was fired?

      “The 2004 IOM results, and all other studies that claimed no association to neurological disorders had been discredited.”

      It’s up to you to actually support this statement. Which you can’t, because it is a false statement.

      “On September 20, 2002, congressional order to VSD from the government, that they let a contract, and paid $195 million to a private company to kept anyone from seeing the VSD over a period of ten years. I have a copy of the contract, #200-2002-00732, which also has been renewed. ”

      So, all those studies using the VSD are making up their data, since they can’t see it?

      “The whole U.S. policy on the controversial issue, of giving children vaccinations at birth, is based on a study that no one has access to.”

      Really? Please, what study is this? Give some citation to back up what is clearly a false claim.

      “Thimerosal was removed from Danish vaccines in 1992. “Thimerosal and the Occurrence of Autism:Negative Ecological Evidence,” was based on Danish population, and was co-authored by Dr. Poul Thorsen. The study was also “fast-tracked” for publication in “Pediatrics” in 2003. Actually, the study did claim that autism went up after thimerosal was removed from the vaccines, based on data between 1970 and 2000. And yes, the Danish Registry added outpatient clinics to the total count of autism cases. Denmark also changed their version of our comparable DSM IV in 1993, to include a broader definition of autism.”

      So what? As shown in the article above, the prevalence of autism did go up after the removal of autism. The prevalence of autism in Denmark post thimerosal was higher than the prevalence people claim for the US in the same birth years, while thimerosal was used in the US. Further, the reported prevalence in the UK was higher than that in the US, even though they had a much lower thimerosal exposure.

      “Of the seven co-authors, three received direct funding from the CDC on vaccine safety related projects. ”

      So what? It’s the job of the CDC to fund this sort of study.

      “Two of the authors worked for the Statens Serum Institute. Still, Dr. Poul Thorsen was indicted in April 2001, on 22 counts of money laundering and fraud. He remains at the top of the “most wanted list” for the HHS Office of Inspector General. The total misrepresentation of this study went a long ways in reinforcing the “non-existent” body of evidence, as cited by the CDC’s claim to disproved the association of thimerosal to autism.”

      So what? Poul Thorsen is a bad guy. He took money. One can’t jump from that to claiming the results of his entire team are faulty–especially when they’ve been replicated by other teams.

      ” You can rearrange the statistics any way you want.”

      I don’t have to. They support my point.

      “Scientifically speaking, there are all kinds of reasons not to inject thimerosal into the human body,”

      And now we move away from autism into the “vaccines are scary” phase of almost all such discussions.

      ” Thimerosal is 49.6% ethyl mercury, mercury is the most harmful toxin known to man, next to plutonium. ”

      Really? Provide the evidence. This is an assertion made by David Kirby in his flawed “Evidence of Harm”. Take a look at the MSDS for thimerosal. It ranks as a 2 out of 4 on health hazards. Many substances–including the chelators people have used to try to cure faux mercury intoxication–have similar or worse health risks.

      “A single drop of mercury can contaminate an entire lake. ”

      If you have a small lake, very big drop and a lake made of some solvent for mercury. I.e., you are incorrect.

      “According to EPA, a child would have to weigh several hundred pounds, to be within safety guidelines of following our recommended vaccination schedule. The suggested recommended vaccine scheduled is ludicrous. If any child adheres to the schedule faithfully, they will have received well over 100 vaccines, and at least 49 vaccinations prior to reaching their sixth birthday. ”

      Ah, the old let’s use the EPA chronic exposure guideline for one mercury compound for an acute exposure to a different compound. I.e. this is a game of sleight of hand.

      “We live in a world with mercury, we get a certain amount of mercury in our bodies daily. However, some people, and children, do not have the ability to flush it out of their systems like the rest of us. It is possible for anyone to exceed the total mercury body burden their system will allow.”

      Really? Please provide a link to the study that shows this. Keep in mind that toxicological experts at the Omnibus Autism Proceeding made it very clear that the “poor mercury excretor” hypothesis has no basis.

      ‘Aluminum is a known neurotoxin. What you neglected to mention were all the other harmful ingredients that are added to vaccines. Phenoxyethanol (Antifreeze), Formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde (Pesticide, embalming agent), sodium borate (used for Cockroach killer), hydrolyzed gelatin (ground animal carcass), monosodium L-glumate (Obesity, Diabetes), potassium chloride (Lethal injection), potassium phosphate monobasic (liquid fertilizer agent), sodium phosphate dibasic (fireproofing agent), sodium phosphate monobasic (Known Toxin), to name only a few. ”

      Ah, the “let’s scare people with ingredients” part of the discussion. I know I’m dealing with someone who doesn’t check his facts when the antifreeze fear mongering comes up. No antifreeze in vaccines. Formaldehyde–you get a larger exposure from eating bananas (one can find Kev Leitch’s discussion of this from years ago on this blog). Gelatin! Oh no! Jello causes autism?

      Please, you embarrass yourself.

      “You were easy to dismiss aborted human fetal cell lines with harmful contaminated retroviruses, and fragmented DNA, as a probable contributing factor towards autism. ”

      Show me how DNA fragments not only enter a cell, but are then replicated throughout the entire body and we can start this discussion.

      “Perhaps the worlds foremost leading authority on the subject of aborted fetal cell lines is Dr. Theresa A. Deisher. President and founder of SCPI. Her non-profit is dedicated to research and education on the immoral and harmful endorsement of our immunization programs current pro-fetal vaccines. She also seeks to develop fetal-free vaccines.”

      Yep, she’s taken a hard-line Catholic stance (not supported by the Vatican) that we shouldn’t use fetal cell lines and has been trying to build arguments against these vaccines for some time.

      I don’t consider her an authority on the subject. Go ahead and appeal to authority if you wish.

      ” You mentioned “change-points.” The only universal childhood factor associated with all three change-points is the introduction of vaccines contaminated with aborted fetal DNA and retroviral fragments. ”

      Nope. I’ve analyzed an published on this exact topic.

      “In 1979 the first aborted fetal vaccine was introduced to the U.S. (MMRII). In 1989 a second dose of this vaccine was added, and compliance doubled, and in 1995 another aborted fetal vaccine was introduced to the U.S., Varicella-chickenpox. SCPI has uncovered data from the CDC, and the U.S. Dept. of Education, that shows that the use of chickenpox vaccine is directly related to autism disorder prevalence in every state in the U.S.. ”

      The changepoint in the California data is 1974. Very clear if you plot the data correctly. There’s another one previous to that as well.

      “Shorter DNA strands recombine with our own, resulting in autoimmune deficiencies. Insertional mutagenesis also occurs, this can result in cancer.”

      Show this to be a fact. Show that the DNA sequences that may be present in a vaccine are the same ones linked to autism. Then show how a single cell, most likely a muscle cell, can absorb DNA and then replicate that DNA to every other cell in the body. The link this to the fact that many genetic markers of autism are known to be active prenatally. So the vaccines would have to make changes before they were administered.

      “Something else to consider, there have never been any safety studies conducted on the health outcomes of those children bombarded with multiple doses of vaccines.”

      Bombarded? Hardley a scientific term. A clearly biased term if you ask me.

      ” Scientifically speaking, you can’t claim the combination of two, or more, of any of the aforementioned adjuvants or factors don’t cause autism. ”

      Ah, the “you can’t prove a negative” argument. You can’t prove that there isn’t teapot orbiting the sun, one that is too small to be detected by earth bound telescopes (an old counter argument). Doesn’t mean there is a teapot out there.

      “Truthfully, aside from my statistics or your statistics, there is a much bigger problem than a study in Denmark.”

      Yes, there is fear mongering which endangers public health, subjects autistics to unproven and potentially dangerous “therapies”.

      “Obviously, there is an environmental factor involved.”

      Yes, as discussed many times on this blog. Environmental factor does not equate to vaccine, however.

      ” Suppose for a moment that vaccinations were responsible for neurodevelopmental disorders.”

      I have many times. Unfortunately the data and arguments supporting the supposition are poor.

      ” If the CDC had to admit they were lying to the public all along, there would be a big problem. The courts would be flooded with lawsuits, and there wouldn’t be enough money to settle all the entitlement claims. Heads would roll. Current laws shield pharmaceutical companies from liability of injury or death, even if they are willfully negligent. Contrary to what HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius says, no one has shown, or continues to show that drugs and vaccines are safe or effective. Lawmakers and legislatures pockets are lined with Big pharma profits. The revolving door of employment between CDC, public health officials, and pharma is laughable. Special interests successfully hinder any meaningful level of justice, correction, or objectivity.”

      Ah, it’s a conspiracy. Sure. And each new person who comes to the CDC is indoctrianated. We are just waiting for the CDC’s “Eric Snowden” to blow the whole thing apart?

      “Please Matt correct me if I’m wrong.”

      I just have.

      ” If I were to assume for a moment, there was no association of vaccinations to autism. Then why are more children autistic, and why has our vaccination schedule quadrupled over the last ten years? ”

      You haven’t proven that there are more autistic children born today than previously.

      Why has our vaccine schedule increased? To prevent disease. Is that such a difficult concept?

      “Is it really your position that thimerosal doesn’t cause autism. ”

      Yes–thimerosal does not increase autism risk. So much data shows this to be the case.

      “Or, based on the information you currently have, is that what your willing to concede. If it were announced tomorrow that thimerosal was a problem all along, what faith would you have in your statistics?”

      Having been shown multiple times that your statistics are faulty, why do you still cling to your faith in a a faulty conculsion?

      “My guess is that your not the parent of an autistic child.”

      Wrong. Easily verifiable that you are wrong.

      ” I would not want to wish that upon anyone. ”

      I won’t use the phrase that comes to mind, but you are welcome to take your beliefs and go elsewhere. To wish that I don’t have my child is about as rude a statement as one can make. Like all children, my child is a source of joy and love. Like all children, my child is source of worry and sleepless nights.

      “I love my son, and I wouldn’t want him to change at all. We’re all dealt different cards. All the statistics in the world still won’t change the circumstances, or the facts”

      And yet you try to misrepresent statistics to deny facts.

      • Jon Hewitt September 8, 2013 at 14:28 #

        Matt,

        Thank you for you quick and lengthy response to my post. I have a great deal of respect for your work, and for your opinion. We simply will have to agree to disagree. I think this fellow Jesus was accurate when He said, “Do not give what’s holy to the dog’s; nor cast your pearl before swine, lest they trample them under your feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.” For me to preach my doctrine, or ardently held beliefs to someone who is totally not receptive to them is useless. It cheapens my message, and subjects me to reprisal. My bad.

        Are credentials required to support anyone’s beliefs or point of view? There are over 670,000 children living with autism in the U.S., many of their parents maintain that autism is an epidemic, and that vaccines play a roll. I’m not a member of any organized group, simply one voice of many who share a common belief.

        I have no right to represent anyone’s position, or to speak on behalf of anyone else. I’ll grant you that.

        According to the CDC, autism was not first described till 1943 by Dr. Leo Kanner. Were there children with autism before that? Yes, and there are more children being born with autism now than ever before.

        My English was poor. What I should have wrote was that, “there are not more autistic children due to better diagnoses, there are more of them.”

        By definition autism is a disease. It’s a neurological developmental disorder, so is Asperger’s, and PDD NOS. They all are on the rise. But please don’t compare Down Syndrome to ASD, when you talk about developmental disorders on the rise. They are both bad. Please tell me what the current prevalence rates for both are. CDC monitoring and tracking are quite poor, checking only one county in six states, of their 12 state ADDM Network.

        Regardless of education ASD was virtually non existent when I graduated from high school in 1977. That’s why it was unheard of.

        Our own government acknowledges the 1:10,000, and the CDC goes right along with it. Let’s go more recent. On July 10, 2012, Kathleen Sebelius said that as recently as the 1990’s, scientists thought autism was a rare disability that only affected one in every 2000 kids. Now it’s 1:50. Better diagnoses don’t account for such a huge jump Matt.

        Simply because you’re not aware of everything the government says, are you implying they didn’t say it. Better listen to the November 12, 2012 OCGR hearing 1 in 88 Children, a look into the federal response to rising rates of autism. Our government says there is an epidemic. And based on population, there is an epidemic.

        If vaccines are safe why is there a vaccine court? And why are there laws preventing parents to receive compensation they’re entitled to, even when there are harmful side affects that result in injury or death? And yes, even if manufacturers are willfully negligent.

        Studies comparing vaccinated children to unvaccinated children have not been revealed. Yet. When they are, and if they support your position, I’ll be the first one to admit I’m wrong. Until that time I will exercise caution based on the entire body of evidence from all sources.

        The vaccine courts have conceded that vaccines play a roll in autism. And they have also concede that vaccines are responsible for numerous injuries. If it’s your position that vaccine injuries aren’t compelling so be it.

        VAERS. Would you consider a flu shot that results in GBS, and paralysis a minor event? I certainly would. Yet the CDC admits only 10% of ALL cases, and as few as only one percent ever get reported. GBS included.

        I won’t even get into discussing the Geier’s. I wrote all about them in my book. I’ll send you a copy if you like. You don’t know the whole story. Based on what you do know, I can understand your opinion. I simply don’t share it.

        I know for a fact of at least one credible independent researcher who has been denied access to the VSD, as recently as July of this year.

        Despite the Danish study, ASD prevalence has risen in every state in the country. I’ts also risen in almost every country in the world. Your right it’s not an epidemic it’s pandemic. If your going to look at Denmark, and assume Iceland, then also look at South Korea, and Sub Sahara Africa. There’s nothing flat there. Matt there are statistics that support either of our positions. It all depends on where you look. I don’t know everything, and neither do you.

        The CDC’s job to do studies. Please, the CDC has two black eyes. There have been numerous cases where they have mislead us, and flat out lied to us. I really don’t know why most people take everything they say at face value. You are a very good journalist and you do extensive research, it shows in everything you write. I have done a great deal of research myself. My opinions are not my own. But you’re wrong about something else.

        Yes there is antifreeze in vaccines. And that’s established fact. Yes, there are also a lot for other harmful ingredients that have no business being in vaccinations. Forget scare tactics, it’s all about complete disclosure, and being a well informed consumer. If everyone were told the ingredients in vaccinations, and the potential harm of those vaccinations, some people would refuse them. By telling me there’s no antifreeze in vaccines, you’re telling me your not as well informed as I am.

        I won’t get into thimerosal or mercury with you either at this time. The EPA feels there is cause for concern. Generally speaking, the INC5 legally binding treaty, decision to ban worldwide use of mercury, feels there’s a concern. You can put it in your body, but just keep it out of mine.

        You feel that Dr. Deisher is not an authority on fetal free vaccines. She is the inventor of 23 U.S. issued patents, and the first person in the world to identify and clone a stem cell from the human heart. I’ll stand behind her science over your research every day of the week. You’re not a good scientist, or are you a scientist? Maybe you are.

        1974 California VAERS, are you kidding me? In 2000 the EPA published data confirming the 1988 changepoint, as a worldwide autism disorder changepoint.

        You wanna begin to talk about DNA? For gene therapy, 9 boys were given essentially the same ingredients as contaminates in vaccines. Human DNA fragment 1114 bp long, fragment of the MMLV retrovirus. Outcome; four out of the nine boys developed cancer. Inappropriate gene insertion into LMO2, overexpression hematopoietic development accelerated. Additional somatic mutations in leukemic cells (J Clinical Investigation 2008 v118 Howe et. al.)

        “Bombarded.” You got me there, definitely not scientific terminology. But then again I’m not a scientist. Are you? By definition a vaccine is an environmental factor. But you’re right, should have said, “Multiple bomb blasts of vaccines in such a short period of time.”

        Fear mongering is not my business. The CDC, and big pharma do that job just fine. I’m just a justifiably concerned individual. Some people will agree with you, and some people won’t, and there’s certainly no harm in that. There’s no need for me to prove anything. According to the government, the CDC, and public health officials, autism is a major public health concern. They all agree there are simply more cases of autism now than there were before, diagnoses not withstanding.

        I was completely out of line in stating, “I wouldn’t wish that upon anyone.”

        What I should have said, “no child should be injured by a vaccination, that has the potential to result in a neurodevelopmental disorder.”

        Clearly there is a problem, can we at least agree upon that?

        I’m not a scientist, doctor, or researcher, simply self educated. Based on all the information, and research that I’ve carefully considered, vaccines have harmful effects. They can, and in some cases do result in neurodevelopmental disorders, and ASD.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) September 15, 2013 at 21:54 #

        “. I think this fellow Jesus was accurate when He said, “Do not give what’s holy to the dog’s; nor cast your pearl before swine, lest they trample them under your feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.””

        Got it. Your words are pearls. I am a swine. Pretty amusing in a non-self-aware sort of way.

        Sorry, I skipped the rest of what you wrote. Hard to see the point, really.

      • John Fryer October 22, 2013 at 22:23 #

        Hi Matt

        Show me how DNA fragments not only enter a cell, but are then replicated throughout the entire body and we can start this discussion.

        This horizontal gene transfer or replication is actually the core of the GMO industry isnt it?

        http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/glossary/15.gene_transfer_horizontal_vertical.html

        And many researchers keep pointing out that this man-made change then causes anything and everything to start chaotic genetic changes for mostly bad results for the environment.

        http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=ignacio_chapela&printerfriendly=true

        Dr Chapela actually being punished for his work that didnt suit the monopoly chemical and pharmaceutical industries.

        And it is important to point out how the first one slides over matters such as the gene transferred contains fragments of man-engineered viruses, bacteria, antibiotics et al while the second embarrassing finding gets denied by other scientists by asserting that the research was sloppy. In fact it took 7 years before science could settle the argument in favour of Chapela. Giving serious concern to listening to arguments made about research that cannot be done overnight but takes time and often a long time to find out exactly what the long term consequences are.

        GMO material is now increasingly an exposure and present in many vaccines today as well as other injectable materials used during pregnancy. We do not today have to wait even for that first GMO vaccine at day one to have cause for concern.

      • John Fryer October 22, 2013 at 22:42 #

        Jon made the very pragmatic assertion that while we know the history of autism goes back 70 years we have only become acutely aware of this disorder in the 21st century.

        As a teacher meeting thousands of pupils there were no cases known to me until after retiring towards the end of the 20th century. Partly ignorance and other reasons but FACT nevertheless.

        China is a case in point where the rise has been phenomenal and has risen in ten or so years from almost zero to well over one million.

        Today I cannot count the number of such autism cases both near where I live in France or in family and friends families most of whom are barely over ten years of age yet. Not fantastically high but enough to realise it is one of the most serious disorders we face and one that has come up from nowhere in a very short time period.

        We are as various groups interested in both the illness and hopefully the cause; for it is not likely that chemical treatments will work and most of those tried have been rounded on as anything from worthless to downright dangerous and there is no reason to believe today in the MAGIC BULLET anymore.

        History of PINKS DISEASE (PD) tells us the best way to eliminate such disease is to root out the cause or causes and for PD this took nearly 150 years with missed opportunities going back a hundred years nearly.

        Rather like vaccines for all of that 150 years it was those parents looking after their child that had the highest risk of having a PD child simply because the medical interventions finally were the root cause of PD.

        Medical treatments to prevent future illness have time and again proven often more dangerous than doing nothing than observing common sense precautions.

        The moral must be common is actually RARE?

  7. John S September 16, 2013 at 19:58 #

    I’ll say this, Big Pharma sells “Diet Pills” and those pills are deemed safe and effective based on “independent research”

    The same people tell us that vaccines are safe.

    So that is a big tell.

    And thousands upon thousands of parents of autistic children are joining the ranks of the anti-vacciners. Thousands of people who get cancer or have a family member with cancer are beginning to realize that it is our food, our electronics and other additives deemed “safe” by the FDA that is causing it. They are joining our ranks as well. Welcome to the information age. Want to tell me more about how smoking does not cause cancer… Doctor?

    And it is not pro-science. Do you see any research funding grants available for non-drug options? Do you see any research grants for scientists to investigate diet, health and exercise to avoid getting the flu? Do you see any funding or research going on studying indigenous peoples and how they don’t get sick? Any funding for researching the Amish? All I see is $$$ PHARMA $$$. I don’t ever see any research seeking cheap non-expensive pill based solutions. Actually, this is Capitalism at its worst…. I cured myself of an ulcer when I was younger, but I didn’t make any money doing it, so I can’t make any money telling people how I did it so I can’t afford to pay scientists to find out my solution worked.

    Another big tell that Big Pharma and “independent studies” is complete bs is to look at Aspartame, High Fructose Corn Syrup, GMOs… etc. There are thousands of studies proving Aspartame is safe. Yet… deep down in your gut and mind you know it is not. I think of the people that I know in my life that are fat, lazy, disease ridden…etc you name it. Then I look at what lifestyles they live, and those who consume many diet products and pills are often the ones who suffer the most, whether it is depression, acid reflux, “GERD”, fatigue, obesity, you name it.

    You don’t need a Ph.D. to see, if anything a Ph.D. compartmentalizes you so you don’t see a human being as a whole.

    Hmmm, I once was in a research laboratory with a scientist testing out some drug and research on spine injuries. Do you know what this guy was eating for lunch? Taco Bell. I don’t trust anybody to advise me on my health if they eat Taco Bell. And yeah, there was blood on his hands, literally from the lab rats. Only he was incapable of washing his hands before eating his Taco Bell and subsequently trying to shake our hands…

    Here is another one, are cell phones safe? Do you need a study to show this? How about that one guy who got cancer in 2 places… the fingers where he held his cell phone, and the spot near his waist where he would hold the cell phone. But no wait “correlation is not causation”

    I say this – take a study on the flu shot, and just read it and tell me how would you conduct such a study, because there are none… Simple, give 50 rats the flu shot, then expose them to the flu virus, how many get the flu?

  8. Robert Broughton October 5, 2013 at 11:09 #

    Actually, the decrease in Autism rates in Europe and Denmark is directly tied to the decrease of GMO foods in the food supply.

    • John Fryer November 13, 2013 at 15:38 #

      Hi Robert can you amplify on the reduction of GMO foods in Europe please?

      As a person in France and in Bretagne we see shiploads of GMO soya coming in weekly due to forced treaties making it an obligation unless the stuff is shown to be harmful.

      Hence the thrashings tio all those who show it is harmful. Pustzai 1999, Ermakova 2003 and Seralini 2012 etc etc.

      I thought that autism was only thought of as levelling off as it was ten years ago when that levelling was shown incorrect.

  9. usethebrainsgodgiveyou March 1, 2014 at 22:07 #

    Sullivan…you don’t have to answer…did your daughter ever have a NVICP table response to a vaccine? My son did. I feel bad, because he’s going to be okay. A Father named Chris had a son with a heart problem who had a severe reaction to a vaccine preventable disease. I don’t have all the facts…but he kept saying it was a “relative risk”, that children were far more likely to be harmed by the disease than the vaccine.

    That was very honest….it’s your kid, or mine, and there is a far greater chance it will be a child like mine.

    If your child has not had a severe reaction to a vaccine…if they had, would you feel different?

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) March 1, 2014 at 23:43 #

      This would be easy to check, given that dockets in the NVICP are public record. And, no, you will not find my name listed as a petitioner.

      I don’t know what you mean by “feel different”. Would I come to the same conclusion about the data? I believe I would. Given how strong the data are, I certainly hope so. But if the vaccine discussion tells us anything it is that bright, well educated people can and have come to believe strongly in something which is incorrect.

      Would I have more (note the use of the word more) empathy and sympathy for those who believe their children were injured by vaccines? Possibly.

      If you will, consider Kev Leitch, founder of Left Brain/Right Brain. He felt at one time that his child’s disability was the result of vaccine injury. He came to a different and strong conclusion otherwise. As have others. He didn’t lose his empathy or sympathy. He however did bring to the discussion the experience of having been taken down the path of belief in something wrong and damaging and that was a strong experience with lasting consequences.

      • usethebrainsgodgiveyou March 2, 2014 at 01:59 #

        I was one of the 3,000 at the “Autism Omnibus Hearings”, from the legal papers I had at one time. It’s not a source of pride or shame. It just is. Thanks for taking the time to answer

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. Even more studies into Schizophrenia, Bipolar, Autism, Alzheimer’s and confirming the rights of the mentally ill | …salted lithium. - September 16, 2013

    […] “Autism, Denmark and again no link with vaccines”… an interesting article from ‘Left Brain / Right Brain’, an independent blog whose “core content and interest has always been autism and the news, science – and bad science – associated with it.” These are the studies quoted in the blog: ‘Recurrence of Autism Spectrum Disorders in Full- and Half-Siblings and Trends Over Time: A Population-Based Cohort Study’ [Aug. 2013]. and ‘A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Autism’ [Nov. 2002] […]

  2. No, the autism prevalence in Denmark did not go down with the removal of thimerosal (again!) | Left Brain Right Brain - July 17, 2014

    […] There’s a story that goes around the vaccine/autism groups that, contrary to published reports, the autism rate in Denmark went down after thimerosal was removed from their vaccines. Of course, this is all part of a cover-up. I discussed this previously in No, the autism prevalence in Denmark did not go down with the removal of thimerosal. In that piece, I looked at a number of published studies and found that the autism rate in Denmark has continued to climb post thimerosal. Later, a study came out which in one place listed autism prevalence vs year for Denmark, and I discussed that as Autism, Denmark and again no link with vaccines. […]

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