Vaccinations & Autism

2 Aug

This post is going to be a fairly rambling affair for which I’ll apologise in advance. It was prompted by the upsurge in my inbox over the last month or so of news alerts surrounding vaccines and epidemics relating to parents not vaccinating their kids. On the surface not necessarily a subject directly related to autism but as the vast majority of us parents with autistic kids know, of late a lot of anti-vaccination people with an agenda have attempted to hijack autism as being the result of vaccine damage.

Here’s a selection of quotes from the Evidence of Harm email list (with thanks to Kathleen who compiled them and used them in her own post first) regarding these anti-vaxxers. These are people who are (or claim to be) parents/relatives of an autistic child:

My stance is this: for “public consumption” I am just anti-mercury. No one can argue with that. Privately, for myself and family, I feel so betrayed by our public health organizations that I don’t forsee ever getting another vaccine for myself or my family.

I am saying… “We just want safer vaccines” (for your kids)…. Meanwhile I am thinking (No way is my kid getting any more vaccines, especially not Hep B, Chicken pox, etc….)

just b/c I am very anti vaccine, does not mean I let that be the message. I always speak about the mercury and we all should.

I can say that my daughter will never be vaccinated UNLESS she is in need of a tetnus shot.

I don’t know if it’s common here or not, but I will never give my kids any vaccine again, mercury or not. They just aren’t safe.

One goal that we as a community must relentless pursue is undermining whenever possible the credibility of the fda/cdc and vaccine industry.

Please see the link to Kathleen’s piece above for all references.

Its clear to see that for a sizable proportion of the mercury = autism crowd, their mission goes far far deeper than thimerosal and touches on the eradication of vaccines totally:

Mercury seems to be getting tons of coverage. When that deal is settled and we win, we need to go after another ingredient. We’ll dismantle the vaccine industry ingredient by stupid ingredient if we have to. Who is with me?

This is pretty disturbing stuff. Firstly, we have the fact that this negativity regarding vaccines is unwarranted with no evidence _whatsoever_ indicating that thimerosal or MMR causes autism (and if anyone wants to disagree with me then remember to cite your peer reviewed science please) and yet a sizable minority not only believe it but are aggressively politicising the issue to a point where a number of us are growing alarmed about the future of autism research and, more importantly, concerned about the stigmatic consequences this will have for our kids as they grow up with people believing they are poisoned.

However, there is another incredibly disturbing outcome directly related to the actions of people on the Evidence of Harm email list, their supporters and those like them on other lists:

In the course of 10 days, officials confirmed four pertussis cases, including the hospitalization of one child to treat respiratory symptoms. All of the cases afflicted children under 5 years old, and one in an infant just a couple of days old, according to Ravalli County Public Health Nurse Judy Griffin…..There have been more than 450 cases of pertussis in Montana so far this year, according to the Department of Health and Human Services. The infection rate is much higher than average years, when about 30 cases are reported….”Parents should check immunization records and make sure they’re up to date,” Nurse Judy Griffin said.

Ravalli Republic.

(Columbia) The state health department said yesterday that an infant has died from whooping cough. It is the first death reported in South Carolina from the disease in nearly three years….The health agency said it’s important children receive pertussis vaccinations on schedule.

WLTX News.

A whooping cough epidemic has hit Deschutes County. Health officials say that in the past six weeks, 18 cases of pertussis have been identified in the county. In all of 2004, there were only two cases of pertussis in Deschutes County.


An increase in cases of the highly contagious whooping cough is prompting state health officials to urge stricter compliance with childhood immunization schedules….Cases have increased annually from 22 statewide in 1996 to 120 last year…Oklahoma’s childhood immunization levels continue to lag behind those nationally, officials said.

RedNova News

Kids are dying again. And in some areas of the US the disease causing those deaths is at epidemic (real epidemic as oppose to autism epidemic) proportions. And thats just one disease that vaccination removed the sting from for many years. In my country (UK) we’ve recently had a Mumps epidemic due to Andrew Wakefield’s unfounded scaremongering regarding the MMR vaccine.

How can this be in any way a good situation? At a recent ‘March for Truth’ rally in the US, a small collection of parents and professionals expounded the evils of thimerosal (or thiomersal for us Brits). One of the placards they carried read:

Vaccines are weapons of mass destruction

Now, as far as I’m aware, autism isn’t fatal but as we’ve seen above, Whooping Cough is. If you don’t vaccinate you not only increase your own kids chances of getting it, you increase the chances of them passing it on as well. Thats how an _actual_ epidemic works.

During the 1970s, widespread concerns about the safety of pertussis immunization led to a rapid fall in immunization levels in the United Kingdom. Within several years, a series of pertussis epidemics occurred; greater than 100,000 cases and 36 deaths due to pertussis were reported in one epidemic in the mid-1970s.


These anti-vaccinationers (and don’t be fooled, they’ll tell you they’re not but remember – they have a ‘public consumption’ stance and a private stance) also aim to affect availability of vaccinations. One of the things that gets them all riled up was (and I’m not a US citizen so forgive my poor terminology) was an amendment to a bill stating that the vaccine making industry should be immune from citizens being able to sue them. As the US (and to a lesser extent the UK) seems to have lost its collective mind and now believes compensation to be synonymous with responsibility, this news was greeted with howls of outrage. But in reality, when you calm down and examine the reasons, it makes sense.

The cost of lawsuits and government regulations forced vaccine makers out of the business in the 1980s. Although Congress responded with a law to minimize their liability, most never returned to the marketplace. Today, only five companies make vaccines for U.S. distribution, compared to about 30 before the liability crisis. These firms live with the daily fear of being hauled into court.


In 1988, Congress created a no-fault system designed to compensate families for adverse effects of childhood vaccines. Without that protection, no manufacturer could bear the risk of the multibillion-dollar lawsuits that trial lawyers routinely threaten on behalf of their clients.


The fund has reduced (but not stopped) the lawsuits. In a pending class-action case, parents of children with autism are blaming vaccines containing mercury for damage to their children’s brains during critical stages of development. According to Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., one such lawsuit seeks $30 billion in damages, even though the entire vaccine market is valued at only $5 billion. Mercury (thimerosal) is not a covered ingredient under the fund.

All quotes from The Saturday Evening Post.

So, parents of autistics in the US have the power to bring the vaccine industry crashing down and in the past, lawsuits have come close to destroying the industry. What effect on child health do we think this may have? Whats important here? A parental need to get rich or the lives of children?

“Power Of Truth” Rally And EoH Maillist PhotoBlog

Placard reading: Autism Sucks! Get Mercury Out!

Placard reading: Here's the point - autism is just another name for mercury poisoning. Hey Dubya, I got your weapons of mass destruction right here.

Bumper sticker reading: Have vaccines caused autism? Read the evidence.

Yeah, definitely not anti-vaccine at all.

51 Responses to “Vaccinations & Autism”

  1. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 2, 2005 at 04:51 #

    This is interesting. If you don’t have time to read the whole report at least read page 15. “Autism Spectrum Disorders are iatrogenic diseases”, or doctor induced.

    Click to access multiple_causes_of_autism_spectrum_disorders.pdf

    Kevin Champagne

  2. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 2, 2005 at 05:15 #

    Kev, You asked for peer reviewed …and here it is.

    Scientists at the University of Calgary have demonstrated that trace amounts of mercury can cause the type of damage to nerves that is characteristic of the damage found in Alzheimer’s Disease (AD). The level of mercury exposure used was well below those levels found in humans with mercury/silver amalgam dental fillings. [Leong, CCW; Syed, NI; Lorscheider, FL. Retrograde Degeneration of Neurite Membrane Structural Integrity of Nerve Growth Cones Following In Vitro Exposure to Mercury. NeuroReport, 12(4):733-737, 2001.]
    The exposure to mercury caused the formation of “neurofibrillar tangles,” which are one of the two diagnostic markers for AD. The scientists found that a number of other materials, including aluminum, did not cause the characteristic damage.
    The research, published in a peer-reviewed medical journal, is accompanied by a dramatic video visual presentation. Utilizing digital time-lapse photography, this video shows the rapid damage to the nerve cells after the introduction of minute amounts of mercury.
    Upon introduction of the mercury, the stripping away of the protein tubulin from the nerve can be seen. The tubulin forms the skeletal structure for the nerve. When the tubulin is stripped away, the bare nerve fiber is left unsupported, resulting in the “neurofibrillar tangles” characteristic of Alzheimer’s Disease. The video also contains an animated description of this process.

    Watch this video. Be patient, it takes a while to download but it shows what happens when mercury enters the brain. Amazing video! Amazing research!

    Kevin Champagne

  3. Kev August 2, 2005 at 05:31 #

    So in your first link you point me to Mark Sircus in a ‘paper’ that is not peer reviewed and is basically an unsubstantiated attack on mercury and in your second you propose that Alzhiemers is the same as autism?

    What I actually asked you to do was show thimerosal or MMR caused autism. So far you’ve not done either.

    Whats your opinion on vaccines Kevin? Do you have a ‘public consumption’ face and a ‘private belief’ face? I wonder which we’ll get?

  4. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 2, 2005 at 06:57 #

    Hold on Kev.

    First, I never claimed that the report by Marc Sircus was “peer reviewed”!

    Did I?

    I know that’s what you asked for, but it was my second post that I claim is peer reviewed.

    You told me a while back Kev to “engage my brain”. Do you remember saying that? Well Kev, what is thimerasol?

    A chemical compound containing mercury, a substance known to be poisonous and toxic, is being used as a preservative in vaccines for children. This additive is called THIMERASOL. This substance has and is being injected into generations of American infants.

    The University of Calgary video shows you how mercury causes brain neuron degeneration.

    Thimerasol is a chemical compound containing what?

    I did a search on one of your favorite or most referred to websites tonight, you know the one, and I found 122 published studies linking amalgam with mercury related illnesses.

    What are amalgams made of?

    A “silver” filling, or dental amalgam, is not a true alloy. Amalgams are made up of 50% mercury. A single dental amalgam filling with a surface area of only 0.4 is estimated to release as much as 15 micrograms of mercury per day primarily through mechanical wear and evaporation.1 9 10 11

    The average individual has eight amalgam fillings and could absorb up to 120 micrograms of mercury per day from their amalgams. These levels are consistent with reports of 60 micrograms of mercury per day collected in human feces.12 By way of contrast, estimates of the daily absorption of all forms of mercury from fish and seafood is 2.3 micrograms and from all other foods, air and water is 0.3 micrograms per day. 13 Currently, Germany, Sweden and Denmark severely restrict the use of amalgams.

    What about mercury in our enviroment?

    Mercury linked to autism
    Thursday, March 17, 2005

    By Thomas H. Maugh II, Los Angeles Times

    Texas researchers have found a possible link between autism and mercury in the air and water.

    Studying individual school districts in Texas, the epidemiologists found that those districts with the highest levels of mercury in the environment also have the highest rates of special education students and autism diagnoses.

    Here’s a real laugher from the CDC:

    Risks from Work. Parents with jobs that involve contact with Lead–such as law enforcement, plumbing, automobile repair, construction, and mining–risk bringing lead dust home on their clothes and passing it on to their families. These parents can be advised to change clothes before coming home, keep work clothes separate from house clothes, and wash them separately (ATSDR, 1995; EPA, 1999; Occupational Safety and Health Administration [OSHA], 2000).

    So according to the CDC, traces of lead on clothing may be toxic but injecting mercury {thimerasol} into the blood stream is not a listed caution on the CDC website!

    Isn’t safe to say or at least logical to say that if amalgams in your teeth containing mercury, and mercury in the air and water may cause brain neuron degeneration, then surely injecting into the blood stream by way of thimerasol is without a doubt going to cause brain neuron degeneration?

    I’m all for vaccinations, safe vaccinations that is! I understand the important role they play and we need to revise the schedule of when we administer the vaccines. The link below is a great reference as to what vaccines should be given and when. That’s my opinion on vaccines Kev.

    This brain is engaged!

    Do you care to join me?

    Kevin Champagne

  5. Kev August 2, 2005 at 07:13 #

    Fascinating stuff Kevin. Now, where are the articles I asked for that show thimerosal causing autism?

    So far you’ve shown how Mercury _might_ be linked to Alzhimers and that Mercury is dangerous, none of which is in dispute. Like most of the people on your side of the debate you fail to make an accurate distinction between mercury and thimerosal. A simple example: Poisons can be made from Sodium and Chloride but when you use them together you get salt. Salt is also dangerous in inappropriate quantities but perfectly safe in snall doses. Just like thimerosal. Unless you can prove me wrong. Which so far you can’t. Now stop fudging and answer the question:

    Can you show me good evidence for a causative link between thimerosal and/or MMR and autism?

  6. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 2, 2005 at 07:29 #

    Kev, you got me scratching my head with this comment:

    “So in your first link you point me to Mark Sircus in a ‘paper’ that is not peer reviewed and is basically an unsubstantiated attack on mercury and in your second you propose that Alzhiemers is the same as autism”?

    Unsubstantiated attack on mercury?

    Are you defending Mercury in someway, as if Mercury may have a credible role to play in our enviroment? Do we need Mercury?

    You then wrote:

    “In your second you propose that Altzhiemers is the same as autism”.

    I propose that mercury is the cause of autism, and that video shows what happens when Mercury enters the brain.

    I also propose that Mercury comes from everywhere, not just vaccines, or fillings ,or fossil fuel burning power plants or whatever. Mercury is everywhere now!

  7. Kev August 2, 2005 at 07:46 #

    Kevin, its really very, very simple. I’m asking you (for about the fourth time) to provide decent evidence that thimerosal causes autism. Thats all.

    I have a few questions for you regarding that video, your beliefs regarding chelation and autism for later but for now, I just want you to answer that one question:

    Can you show me good evidence for a causative link between thimerosal and/or MMR and autism or not?

  8. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 2, 2005 at 07:52 #

    Kev wrote:

    “A simple example: Poisons can be made from Sodium and Chloride but when you use them together you get salt. Salt is also dangerous in inappropriate quantities but perfectly safe in snall doses. Just like thimerosal. Unless you can prove me wrong. Which so far you can’t. Now stop fudging and answer the question:”

    Do you think thimerasal was used in small doses in these vaccines? Several of these vaccines containing thimerasol are giving on the same day and way to close together in the first year of life.

    Then I refer you to Stephanie Cave’s book again.

    Then you need to take into consideration the Ed Haines data published by the CDC that states that 1 in 6 mothers are mercury toxic when their child is born and thier immune systems are already suppressed and then we hit these immune suppressed children with a toxic load of vaccines that thier suppressed immune systems can’t defend against and then throw in the mercury or thimerasol that just provides further insult to the already suppressed immune system and what do you get? I am just going out on a limb here … but I am guessing that we will not have a healthy child in this situation.

    We might have a mercury toxic child with brain neuron degeneration?

    We might have what is commonly referred to as autism?

    I don’t fudge … never have fudged!

  9. Kev August 2, 2005 at 07:56 #

    Kevin, this is going absolutely nowhere. I’m going to ask you one more time:

    Can you show me good evidence for a causative link between thimerosal and/or MMR and autism or not?

    Just one study – thats all you need, just one that is peer reviewed and appeared in a recognised journal and says that vaccines administered thimerosal causes autism.

  10. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 2, 2005 at 08:03 #

    That video shows how Mercury causes brain neuron degeneration.

    Thimerasol contains a lot of what?

    Children in the 1990’s got a lot vaccines containing a lot of what?

    1in 6 mothers at child bearing age are { fill in the blank} ______ toxic?

    There seems to be a common link to the video and Brain Neuron Degeneration caused by what?


    Is there a link in that video between mercury and brain neuron degeneration?

    I am ready for your questions regarding chelation and autism.

    Kevin Champagne

  11. Kev August 2, 2005 at 08:16 #

    I’m at a loss Kevin. You really seem unable to answer such a simple question. I can’t pretend to understand why but you do seem to have a basic ignorance about what thimerosal is and what its role in vaccines was. As it is, I’m going to have to conclude that you can’t give me any credible evidence regarding a causative link between thimerosal/MMR and autism.

    You’ve given me lots of evidence that mercury can be a neuro-toxin (Which I don’t dispute) and then there’s a lot of supposition.

    But lets assume for a moment that you’re right and that thimerosal causes physical damage to the brain. Chelation only removes mercury, it doesn’t reverse the damage it causes and the brain can’t do it by itself.

    How do you explain the claim that chelation reverses autism? That those who were mercury poisoned fully recover to normalcy after chelation?

    To me it seems there’s a few possibilities.

    1 – Chelation doesn’t do anything at all. Those kids who recieved it are simply progressing as kids do when they grow up.

    2 – They were never mercury poisoned at all. As Mercury poisoning inflicts irreversable (by Chelation) damage to the brain and yet they are progressing its hard to understand how that could occur.

    In the 1950’s Mercury poisoning often resulted in death. Why do you think we haven’t had a spate of dead autistic kids?

  12. Kev August 2, 2005 at 08:25 #

    Oh and that newspaper piece you cited above? The bit you ‘forgot’ to include from that piece read:

    “The study does not prove that mercury causes autism, cautioned the lead author, Raymond F. Palmer of the University of Texas Health Science centre in San Antonio.”

    Deccan Herald.

    Interestingly I think this might be the same study that David Kirby misquoted in EoH. Must be something in the water.

  13. Kev August 2, 2005 at 08:36 #

    Yup, it is the same study.

  14. Matt Setchell August 2, 2005 at 09:17 #

    This is one of those things that is just scary to read, the world is getting scarier, or is it as usual just a small minority of people making it scary for personal gain?

  15. Courtney August 2, 2005 at 13:46 #

    The MMR can be separated into three separate vaccines (not convenient for pediatricians, but it can be done). As long as they’re each given by the time a child goes to school, there is no risk. This is what my sister (preschool special educator and autism specialist) did with her children, and guss what, EoH listers? MY NEPHEWS WERE VACCINATED AND DO NOT HAVE AUTISM!!! One is 5, the other is 3.

    Your children need to be vaccinated, because if not, they WILL CONTRACT DISEASES THAT WILL KILL THEM, and pose health risks to ALL of your neigbors, young and old alike. Stop being irresponsible parents and do the right thing.

  16. Orac August 2, 2005 at 14:17 #

    Thanks for demonstration that “anti-mercury” all too often does mean anti-vaccine!

  17. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 2, 2005 at 17:49 #

    Kevin Leitch asked me:

    “But lets assume for a moment that you’re right and that thimerosal causes physical damage to the brain. Chelation only removes mercury, it doesn’t reverse the damage it causes and the brain can’t do it by itself.”

    “How do you explain the claim that chelation reverses autism? That those who were mercury poisoned fully recover to normalcy after chelation?”

    The brain can reverse the damage itself.

    The bain can heal itself.

    Developing brains can heal through chemicals in the brain called growth factors.

    In the University of Calgary video clip you see how mercury binds to the tubulin and the tubulin falls away and no longer supports the neurofibrils. Remove the mercury through chelation and the growth cone will slowly be rebulit.

    I suppose your going to ask me next to provide “peer reviewed” studies showing that the brain can heal itself, especially a young devolping brain?

    Matt Setchell, what are you referring to as being scary?

    Courtney, I am aware of the 3 separate vaccines and that is what’s in Sterphanie Cave’s book and she also has a better vaccine schedule that spreads all the vaccines that are presently given between 12 and 15 months and spreads them out to be given over 3 years. What is wrong with that?

    Why is it that everytime someone mentions vaccines there’s always these people that go off on a rant saying “Your children need to be vaccinated, because if not, they WILL CONTRACT DISEASES THAT WILL KILL THEM, and pose health risks to ALL of your neigbors, young and old alike. Stop being irresponsible parents and do the right thing.”

    I am not anti-vaccine and neither are most parents that are blaiming mercury and thimerasol for autism.

    When I referred to this link about iatrogenic causes or doctor induced diseases, I believe that is due to thimerasol and vaccines that are given too close together.

    Kevin Leitch also wrote:

    1 – Chelation doesn’t do anything at all. Those kids who recieved it are simply progressing as kids do when they grow up.

    You’re wrong! I don’t think that you have seen it first hand like I have.

    Kevin then Wrote:

    2 – They were never mercury poisoned at all. As Mercury poisoning inflicts irreversable (by Chelation) damage to the brain and yet they are progressing its hard to understand how that could occur.

    You’re wrong again I have the blood, stool and urine test results to prove it and the brain can heal itself.

    Kevin Champagne

  18. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 2, 2005 at 17:57 #

    Brain can heal itself:

    Kalil finally determined that young animal brains are awash in chemicals called growth factors, while adult brains have far lower levels (11). He surmised that the abundance of growth factors helps the new brains organize themselves.

    The key to the brain’s plasticity is a newly discovered family of chemicals, including nerve growth factor, that keep brain cells alive (11). They are called neurotrophic factors, from the Greek “neuro” for brain and “troph” for nourish (1). They have names like brain-derived growth factor, glial-derived growth factor, neurotrophic-3, and ciliary neurotrophic factor-simple titles that belie their lifesaving attributes. Neurotrophic factors are like nannies to brain cells. They are there when the cells are first born, making sure they are nourished, grow, and make the right connections. They are there throughout the life of the cells, guarding their health and repairing damage. Moreover, they are there to insure that the brain cells do the jobs they were created for, to learn and remember (12).

    The discovery of neurotrophic factors has opened the door to new generations of therapeutic agents that can revive sputtering brain cells, repair those that are damaged, rescue dying ones, and generate new cells.

  19. Kev August 2, 2005 at 19:08 #

    Of course I’m going to ask for peer-reviwed studies! Why did you think otherwise? You know full well the reasons why and I asked for any cites to be made in this context in my post. If its not peer reviewed then its akin to you saying:

    “The Reptillian Conspiracy exists! David Icke says so!

    Anyone can point to Article X on website Y but evidence requires a proper system of checks and balances – without it we have asumptions like the one you made that mercury being a neurotoxin equates to thimerosal causing autism.

    I’m interested in your belief the brain can heal itself when placed in the context of Mercury poisoning (and thats what I was asking for – not a blanket statement about repair). In your first post you point me to a video where damage can be shown in the brain as a result of mercury poisoning. Don’t you wonder why these people didn’t simply chelate their patients? According to you that would enough to cure their Alzhiemers.

    There’s also the point that mercury does leave the body after a period of time and yet brain autopsies carried out on Alzhiemers patients show physical damage. If the Mercury has gone why didn’t these brains repair themselves?

    Its not enough to simply state ‘brains can repair themselves’. Even if you’re right in a general sense (and two random google results are far from proof of that) you have to show that a) autism is caused by Mercury poisoning via thimerosal and that b) the brain is capable of total recovery from this toxic insult.

    A close relative of mine died of Parkinsons a few years ago and I remember asking the Specialist why her brain didn’t simply get better by itself. He said that it was all down to circumstance – in some circumstances and in some areas of the body repair and recovery is possible but in some circumstances and in other areas of the body it isn’t.

  20. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 2, 2005 at 20:18 #

    Kev, you must know that Mercury and heavy metals are also linked to Parkinson’s?

    Kevin Leitch asked:

    “There’s also the point that mercury does leave the body after a period of time and yet brain autopsies carried out on Alzhiemers patients show physical damage. If the Mercury has gone why didn’t these brains repair themselves?”

    I said ” Developing brains can heal through chemicals in the brain called growth factors.” Young developing brains. I assume the people that died from Alzhiemer’s were senior citizens?

    Remember when you quoted Dr. Buttar back in your letter to him?

    Dr. Buttar said:

    Our success has been all under the age of nine, nine or under. Now since then, when I presented to Congress I told them that I didn’t think this would be effective for older children because the older children would use it, I didn’t see — they got better, they started talking, but they’re not in my book considered normal. They can read, but they’ll never do much more than flip hamburgers for a living, that type of thing.

    You chose not to quote his next sentence that went something like this …He has now seen it work on 2 eleven year old boys and that he has changed his mind about it not working on older children. However Dr. Buttar has said many times that the younger, the better, because a young developing brain has the best chance for full recovery.

  21. Matt Setchell August 2, 2005 at 21:59 #

    Kevin Champagne Said:
    Matt Setchell, what are you referring to as being scary?

    Well, people like you with these beliefs, that even people like me who know very little about the whole situation can see having flawed arguments, and the majroity of the time no evidence to even back up any arguments, These beliefs are not endangering peoples lives – and without evidence its scary that they are allowed to do so.

  22. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 3, 2005 at 02:41 #

    Matt Setchell wrote:

    “These beliefs are not endangering peoples lives – and without evidence its scary that they are allowed to do so.”


  23. Anne August 3, 2005 at 04:21 #

    Kevin Champagne Wrote:
    “That video shows how Mercury causes brain neuron degeneration.”

    Okay, but here’s the thing. Alzheimer’s is a neurodegenerative disease. So are ALS, Parkinson’s, and MS.

    Autism is not a neurodegenerative disease.

    Also, if I recall correctly, autistic kids have more and denser neurons than typical kids, not less. There is no demyelinization in autism. There are no studies finding
    neurofibrillar tangles or amyloid plaque in autism to the best of my knowledge. The only study that I am aware of that measured tubulin levels showed them to be the same in autistic brains as non-autistic brains.

    As far as I can tell the University of Calgary study relates to Alzheimers and not to autism.

    I think your argument is that mercury is a neurotoxin that messes up brains, and autistics have messed up brains, so therefore mercury causes autism. Is that a fair statement of your argument?

  24. Kev August 3, 2005 at 04:46 #

    “Kev, you must know that Mercury and heavy metals are also linked to Parkinson’s?”

    I give up. I used the Parkinsons case to illustrate the inconsistency of self repair – thats all.

    And are you really using something Dr Buttar said to back up the efficacy of somethng Dr Buttar sells?

  25. bonni August 3, 2005 at 09:46 #

    Yeah, let’s do away with all vaccines. It’d be great to go back to the days of smallpx, diptheria, and tetanus killing kids. Hooray for modern medicine.

  26. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 3, 2005 at 22:44 #

    Get Real Bonnie!

    The CDC reported (Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, July 30, 1999, 48:621-628) that improvements in sanitation, water quality, and hygiene had been the most important factors in control of infectious diseases in the past century. Although vaccines were mentioned, they were not included among the major factors.

    Before health agencies and schools of public health were completely taken over by allopathic medicine, in the service of their pharmaceutical cartel owners, the great legacy of the sanitary reformers — Max von Penttenkofer, James T. Briggs, Dr. John Snow, Edwin Chadwick, Florence Nightingale, Dr. Southwood Smith, et al. was that they were able to eradicate cholera, yellow fever, tuberculosis, typhus, typhoid, scarlet fever, diptheria, whooping cough, measles, and the bubonic plague long before vaccinations were developed or routinely used.
    Not only had poor sanitation and nutrition lain the foundation for disease, it was also compulsory smallpox vaccination campaigns in the late 19th and early 20th centuries that played a major role in decimating the populations of Japan (48,000 deaths), England and Wales (44,840 deaths, after 97 percent of the population had been vaccinated), Scotland, Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, Holland, Italy, India (3 million — all vaccinated), Australia, Germany (124,000 deaths), Prussia (69,000 deaths — all re-vaccinated), and the Philippines. The epidemics ended in cities where smallpox vaccinations were either discontinued or never begun, and also after sanitary reforms were instituted (most notably in Munich — 1880, Leicester — 1878, Barcelona — 1804, Alicante — 1827, India — 1906, etc).

  27. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 3, 2005 at 23:34 #


    Writing in the British Medical Journal (Jan. 21, 1928 p.116), Dr. L. Parry questioned the vaccination statistics, which revealed a higher death rate amongst the vaccinated than the unvaccinated, and asked the questions:

    “How is it that smallpox is five times as likely to be fatal in the vaccinated as in the unvaccinated? “How is it that in some of our most highly vaccinated towns — for example, Bombay and Calcutta — smallpox is rife, whilst in some of our most poorly vaccinated towns, such as Leicester, it is almost unknown? How is it that something like 80 percent of the cases admitted into the Metropolitan Asylums Board smallpox hospitals have been vaccinated, whilst only 20 percent have not been vaccinated?”

    “How is it that in Germany — the best-vaccinated country in the world — there are more deaths in proportion to the population than in England? For example, in 1919, there were 28 deaths in England, 707 In Germany; in 1920, 30 deaths in England, 354 In Germany. In Germany in 1919, there were 5,012 cases of smallpox with 707 deaths; in England in 1925, there were 5,363 cases of smallpox, with 6 deaths. What is the explanation?”

  28. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 3, 2005 at 23:36 #


    In an article, “Vaccination In Italy”, which appeared in the New York Medical Journal, July 1899, Charles Rauta, Professor of Hygiene and Material Medical in the University of Perguia, Italy, wrote:

    “Italy is one of the best-vaccinated countries in the world, if not the best of all. For twenty years before 1885, our nation was vaccinated in the proportion of 98.5 percent. Notwithstanding, the epidemics of smallpox that we have had have been something so frightful that nothing before the invention of vaccination could equal them. During 1887, we had 16,249 deaths from smallpox; in 1888, we had 18,110, and in 1889, 131,413.”

    “Vaccination is a monstrosity; a misbegotten offspring of error and ignorance. It should have no place in either hygiene or medicine. Believe not in vaccination; it is a world-wide delusion, an unscientific practice, a fatal superstition with consequences measured today by tears and sorrow without end.”

  29. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 3, 2005 at 23:46 #

    Bonnie, here is a more recent article,

    Even the British Medical Journal (1/5/1976) stated: “It is now accepted that the risks of routine smallpox vaccination outweigh those of natural infection in Britain.”

    “Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship … To restrict the art of healing to one class of men and deny equal privileges to others, will constitute the Bastille of medical science.”

    I wonder why we don’t vaccinate for smallpox anymore?

  30. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 3, 2005 at 23:50 #

    “If humanity is to pass safely through its present crisis on earth, it will be because a majority of individuals are now doing their own thinking.”

    — Buckminster Fuller

  31. Kev August 3, 2005 at 23:54 #

    Kevin’s true feelings on vaccinations become clear…give ’em enough rope and they’ll hang themslves ;o)

  32. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 4, 2005 at 00:07 #

    Kevin Leitch,

    Just as I thought, you have no comeback for the truth about vaccines! ;o(

  33. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 4, 2005 at 00:13 #

    Scientific evidence shows that too—frequent tetanus boosters actually may interfere with the immune reaction.

    There has been a growing recognition that no controlled scientific study (in which half the patients were given the vaccine and the other half were given injections of sterile water) has ever been carried out to prove the safety and effectiveness of the tetanus vaccine. Evidence for the vaccine comes from epidemiologic studies which are by nature controversial and which do not satisfy the criteria for scientific proof.

    Until the last few years, government statistics admitted that 40 percent of the child population of the U.S. was not immunized. For all those decades, where were the tetanus cases from all those rusty nails?

  34. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 4, 2005 at 00:17 #

    We need safe vaccines and the majority of the vaccines we’re using are not safe and some are not neccesary.

  35. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 4, 2005 at 00:21 #

    Here is that link again. I didn’t get it right the first time.

  36. Kevin Champagne - Syracuse, NY. August 4, 2005 at 07:31 #




  37. Kev August 4, 2005 at 07:53 #

    We are indeed done here Kevin. In fact, you’re shortly to be banned.

    I have no problem with you stating your case, in fact I’ve encouraged it but there are things I won’t tolerate. The total abuse of my comments system is one of them. I’ve had to warn you in the past about abusive behaviour and to wake up to have to sort this mess out is very annoying. Why did you think that posting the in excess of 10 comments one after another full of incoherent ranting was in any way either a valid, mature or acceptable thing to do?

    I really think you’d beneft from reading this.

  38. bonni August 4, 2005 at 08:11 #

    Kevin, in the future, please spell my name correctly. I mean, it’s right there in front of you. It’s not so difficult to spell.

    As for the smallpox, you’re quite right. It’s nearly extinct, and guess what? It’s not longer part of the routine vaccinations in most places. I have a scar from a smallpox vaccine, but my husband, who is nine years my junior, does not, so it hasn’t been routine for some time.

    Measles, however, is still out there, and it’s still killing people. Same with rubella, which doesn’t kill people so much as it can cause horrific deformations and other problems in a developing fetus if the mother contracts it.

    I’ve read far, far too much history to think that totally abandoning all vaccinations is anything like a good idea. Sorry.

  39. Tammy August 4, 2005 at 19:27 #

    Kev..what I can’t figure out is why you would want to ban someone who brings an opposing view to your blog. From what I can see Kevins comments, right or wrong in your opinion, get conversation flowing here. It doesn’t matter if he makes one very long post like some do..or 10 short ones. They make this blog more interesting and give us all more to think about. I don’t think you’d have nearly as many comments from others if he weren’t posting here. Just my opinion.

  40. Kev August 4, 2005 at 22:33 #

    I have no problem with an opposing view but when that view means I have to spend valuable time clearing up my site then its not tolerable.

    I let anyone say pretty much whatever they want, I don’t delete or edit comments that I don’t agree with but I have zero tolerance for people who are openly abusive or who seek to waste my time. This wasn’t the first or second time Kevin had been asked to moderate his tone or attitude and to be frank – I have 3 kids, I don’t have time or inclination to nursemaid any more.

  41. Emmanuel Schiff August 4, 2005 at 23:42 #

    As far as I know, the well-known risks posed by unnecessary vaccinations such as small-pox stem from the fact that a tiny bit of the virus is contained in the vaccinations, and in some cases that can cause the illness to break out. That’s why only people at risk of getting the virus, such as medical staff, get vaccinated against diseases like smallpox.

    Professionals worry about the traces of the virus, not the metals.

  42. JP August 5, 2005 at 17:26 #

    I’ll parrot what Bonni and Emmanuel said about smallpox – it no longer exists thanks to vaccination, thus, there’s no reason to vaccinate for it.

    Kevin Champagne’s notion that diseases like pertussis, measles, and diphtheria were “eradicated” is ludicrious, since all of those disease exist in portions of the world today – including places where sanitation is certainly not poor. It’s sad to see another person who has bought into the “vaccines had little to do with the decline of disease” argument.

    As to Buttar, all I want from him is peer-reviewed science. A journal article showing that TD-DMPS works better than a placebo would be nice. His claims of a wonder cure for autism would hold more water if he could produce a real study, rather than unsubtantiated claims and testimonials.

    In fact, that’s all I want from anyone who purports a link between vaccines and some untoward side effect. I want scientific evidence, not opinions or anecdotes or testimonials.

  43. Kev August 6, 2005 at 00:26 #

    One further comment on Kevin Champagne as I know he’s reading and trying to post.

    If I get an apology from you and a promise not to abuse this site by flooding it with repeated posts and open abuse I’ll be happy to reinstate your posting rights.

  44. Kevin Champagne August 6, 2005 at 18:01 #

    Dr. Stephanie Cave presented enlightening data on mercury toxicity, drawn largely from the brilliant work of Sallie Bernard. Dr. Cave explained how:

    By age two, American children have received 237 micrograms of mercury through vaccines alone, which far exceeds current EPA “safe” levels of .1 mcg/kg. per day. That’s one-tenth of a microgram, not one microgram.

    Three days in particular may be singled out as spectacularly toxic for infants:

    Day of birth: hepatitis B-12 mcg mercury

    30 x safe level

    At 4 months: DTaP and HiB on same day – 50 mcg mercury

    60 x safe level

    At 6 months: Hep B, Polio – 62.5 mcg mercury

    78 x safe level

    At 15 months the child receives another 50 mcg

    41 x safe level

    These figures are calculated for an infant’s average weight in kilograms for each age.

    These one-day blasts of mercury are called “bolus doses”. Although they far exceed “safe” levels, there has never been any research conducted on the toxicity of such bolus doses of mercury given to infants all these years.


    Historically, the toxicity of mercury has been known for more than a century. The Mad Hatter was more than a fantasy character from Alice in Wonderland. Mad Hatter’s disease became well known in England in the mid-1800s, when hat-makers were subject to inhaling the vapors from the mercury-based stiffening compound they used on felt to make top hats.

    Sources of Mercury

    It is interesting to learn that common household remedies that were used up into the 1960s like mercurochrome and “teething powder” were often the cause of acute mercury poisoning and disease.

    In the U.S., EPA mercury toxicity studies have involved contamination from fish, air, and other environmental sources. This is inorganic mercury (methylmercury).

    Methylmercury has long been associated with serious neurological disorders, demyelinating diseases, gut disease, and visual damage.

    The mercury in vaccines, however, is in the form of thimerosal, which is 50 times more toxic than plain old mercury (methylmercury).

  45. Tom Maryland August 10, 2005 at 16:14 #

    Those choosing convention rather than innovation will always have the luxury of sitting back and supporting themselves with statements such as “no substantiation in the scientific literature whatsoever” even though often there may be, or “findings do not meet the prevailing evidence-based medical criteria.” What does that mean? “Evidence-based.” When I read that term, to me it means something based on evidence. Yet, those that follow convention have taken “evidence-based” and contorted and manipulated it into meaning something completely different from what the intention of the phrase was meant to be or what the actual words themselves mean. “Evidence-based” no longer means “based on evidence” as was the original intention, but rather based on the prevailing double blind, placebo controlled method of evaluation. The best way to perhaps explain the deficiencies of this misinterpretation of “evidence-based” is by using the quote from Jules Henri Poincaré, who once said, “Science is facts; just as houses are made of stones, so is science made of facts; but a pile of stones is not a house and a collection of facts is not necessarily science.” You may collect a lot of facts using double blind, placebo controlled, multi-centered, cross-over trials, and even I have been involved with a number of such trials. However, the data gathered is nothing more than the piles of stones. To construct a house from these stones however is a completely different matter. This construction of a house is science, not the simple collection of facts. Remember that innovation is greater than convention, although most individuals choose to go the route of convention.

  46. Kev August 10, 2005 at 16:56 #

    When it comes to the long term health of my kids Tom, you can bet I choose convention.

    “1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment
    2. Something indicative; an outward sign

    1. To indicate clearly; exemplify or prove.
    2. To support by testimony; attest”

    You’ve made the error of confusing investigation (which should be inovatory) with results (which should be evidence based).

  47. Kevin Epstein August 10, 2005 at 21:14 #


    My two year old son’s doctor erroneously gave my son a second mmr shot by mistake (my son was there for a chicken pox shot).

    Is this bad? What are the long term affects?
    What should I do?

    Your comments are very much appreciated.


  48. Tammy August 11, 2005 at 04:30 #

    Those of you who are innovative and are striving to improve the science of medicine and contributing to the continuation of advances in medical science, I applaud you. Those that are intent on showing deficiencies rather than solving deficiencies, or spend more time and energy in creating issues for these innovators, who themselves have never had an original thought or a new idea, remember that if you are not a part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Moving forward is always greater and takes more effort than sitting back in the same seat. Remember that where growth stops, decay sets in. And this decay is overly abundant and prevalent not only in the current state of medicine, but appears to be a characteristic of all innovation in medicine historically. We, as a profession, are obligated to find those few medical innovators among us, embrace them, and find out how we can help them to further the science of medicine to help not only our patients, but our future generations as well.

  49. Prometheus August 12, 2005 at 05:56 #

    Aphorisms! How I love aphorisms!

    Here are a few more for you to chew on:

    “Everyone respects the innovator who goes against convention – until they meet someone driving the wrong way on the highway.”

    “Every complex problem has a simple solution that is wrong.”

    “Science is what we do to keep from fooling ourselves.”

    “Measure twice, cut once.”

    “They laughed at Galileo, but they also laughed at the Marx Brothers.”

    The reason that medical research appears slow and clumsy is that the stakes are so high – the consequences of moving too quickly down the wrong path can be catastrophic.

    Innovation is generally a good thing, right up to the point where it goes bad. It is only by careful research and testing – all of which takes precious time – that we avoid another thalidomide disaster (which was largely averted in the US by our slower and more cumbersome drug approval process).


  50. HN August 12, 2005 at 07:10 #

    To Mr. Epstein:

    The answer to your query would be better from your community’s public health agency (I do not know if you are in the US, UK, Canada, or even Hong Kong). I did a quickie check on one source and found on this answer:
    “What is meant by “minimum intervals” between vaccine doses?
    Vaccination schedules are generally determined by clinical trials, usually prior to licensure of the vaccine. The spacing of doses in the clinical trial usually becomes the recommended schedule. A “minimum interval” is shorter than the recommended interval, and is the shortest time between two doses of a vaccine series in which an adequate response to the second dose can be expected. The concern is that a dose given too soon after the previous dose may reduce the response. The minimum spacing between doses is generally included in the ACIP statement for that vaccine, and is also summarized in the General Recommendations on Immunization ACIP statement. Doses of vaccines given routinely to infants and young children should not be separated by less than 4 weeks. (1/02)”

    Also, in response to Courtney: The MMR issue is completely separate from the “mercury in thimerosal”. The MMR vaccine has never contained thimerosal, please see:

    The MMR issue is due to some study that was bought and paid for by a lawyer: … which is now resulting in a massive mumps epidemic in the UK in adolescents. This includes young college men who will now be more likely to become sterile:
    There is absolutely no relationship between when and how a kid gets the vaccinations for mumps, measles or rubella and the incidence of autism.

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