Better Dead Than Autistic

24 Aug

So its true.

A five year old autistic boy died on Tuesday while receiving chelation.

Since this blog began and I started addressing Chelation I’ve had numerous responses telling me I was wrong to attack Chelation as it was perfectly safe. That I was a child abuser because I refused to chelate my child. That it was better to try an unknown and unproven proceedure then to leave them in the hell of autism.

RFK Jr raised his profile with it, David Kirby made his name from it, lots of people marched for their right to practice it. Erik Nanstiel has a website that proudly shows parents chelating their kids.

When this story first started doing the rounds I checked into the Evidence of Harm mail list. They are very upset about this because they’re mostly parents…..right? No. Because they’re worried about how it might affect their political campaign and how upsetting it might be for the Practice concerned:

Yeah, just imagine big pharma jumping on this to try to shut down our efforts to help our children get well again!

EoH List

This will hit Dr. Usman especially hard…she is a VERY caring Physician whose own child died (from a food allergy incident- not chelation but to experience the death of a child….) so you can see how this will devastate her personally

EoH List

And how many children died during the night of mercury poisoning that we will never hear about? How many have died of mercury induced seizures, peanut allergy, ….?

No treatment — nothing is without risk. To date, chelation has been the only hope many of our families have. And what are the alternatives? Life in a gastro hell with seizures.

My hearts and prayers go out to this family. But it only strengthens my and my husbands resolve to do everything we can to help our Ryan. His life was a tortured hell before biomedical — and he was one of the kids who was actually improving before intervention.

EoH List

I commented on leaking out tidbits of information because when there is nothing verifiable, it’s just fear mongering. this could be a bad setback for treatments and doctors.

EoH List

I shed tears for the parents and other loved ones and have compassion and empathy for the doctor and their staff.

EoH List

Its easy to see what the priorities here are. Lots of worry that ‘the cause’ might be affected. And lots of expressions of sympathy for the family and Doctors concerned. However I went through 22 messages and _not once_ did anyone on that list express sorrow for the dead autistic 5 year old. I wonder why.

Better dead than autistic. Better dead than an inconvenient ‘parents worst nightmare’. Better dead than making me get off my fat arse and work _with_ my child.

Who’s to say this boy’s parents didn’t read the EoH list and resolve to Chelate due to what they read? Maybe they were inspired by the buffoons at Moms Against Mercury. Maybe they were terrified by Kirby’s book. Maybe RFK Jr’s rhetoric and ego spurred them into action. Maybe Erik Nanstiel’s video’s led them to try it.

Whatever. You people set the cost. This 5 year old boy paid it. Sacrificied on the alter of your ignorance and political goals.

Think of this boy everytime you upload another video to your site, or write another inflammatory piece of rhetoric, or get your boy-reporter face on TV or persuade some other ignoramus that chelation is totally safe. He wasn’t a political tool, he was just a little boy who’s only ‘crime’ was that he was born autistic to a set of parents unable to see the value in that or even just try and meet him halfway.

42 Responses to “Better Dead Than Autistic”

  1. “Better dead than autistic. Better dead than an inconvenient ‘parents worst nightmare’. Better dead than making me get off my fat arse and work with my child.”

    That seems to be the worth of the autistic child these days, doesn’t it?! I’m glad I’m not anywhere near those parents and the person doing the treatment.

    Ignorant bastards.

    Had they had a better attitude towards autistic children and what we grow up into, this kid would be getting his chance to do that too.

    I am horrified about this.

    Don’t any curebie even think about justifying this shite to me.

    I would NEVER do that to my daughter. And Kevin would prolly punch anyone who suggested he do it to his kid.

    I would.

    David
    -seething.

  2. Matt Setchell August 24, 2005 at 23:43 #

    I cant quite believe what they are saying on EOH – I really cant. A childs dead because of what they are encouraging. Why? What has it achived for that family? Or the next one?

  3. HN August 25, 2005 at 00:25 #

    Actually they are now going to be pushing Buttar’s cream because it is harmless. Harmless because it does not DO anything (still not convinced that it absorbed into anyone’s skin… testimonials are not evidence).

    The people who push chelation (oral, intraveneous or “transdermal”), cranial-sacral massage, uber-movement exercises (ABA, Doman Delcato), primrose oil, mega-supplements, brain-mapping, and other methods that charge lots of money without being very effective are pure evil.

  4. Matt,

    “I cant quite believe what they are saying on EOH – I really cant. A childs dead because of what they are encouraging. Why? What has it achived for that family? Or the next one?”

    Nothing.

    Zilch.

    The centre of a doughnut.

    Fuck all.

  5. bonni August 25, 2005 at 02:27 #

    Several things go through my mind and heart.

    First, sorrow for the little boy, and, yes, for his parents, who may have just been desperate and ignorant, and sucked in by propaganda. Perhaps they really believed they were helping their child…

    Secondly, a sort of cold, low, rumbling rage at the idiots and sleaze bags who are now and continue to propagate the lies and bullshit that makes up their cult-like “faith” that autistic children can be magically (and expensively) “cured”.

    I wouldn’t have my child’s body pumped full of ethylene diamine tetraacetic acid even if there were practitioners in Australia willing to do it (as far as I know, the cult movement hasn’t reached these shores, but I could be wrong). I can’t imagine the kind of desperation and sheer bloody pig-headed ignorance that must exist in the kind of parents who advocate this crap, and I can’t imagine the level of evil and greed in the kind of people who run the “cult”. I’m quite sure I don’t want to.

    I just wonder how many more children are going to die before this practice is abandoned and the cult disbands…

  6. HN August 25, 2005 at 04:02 #

    About 18 months ago I posted a response to someone ona listserv that hair analysis was bogus, that thimerosal was not the culprit and that chelation was not a good idea. This is one response I got (I had others, including an all caps one):

    “I just returned from the DAN! conference …. You can beleive what you want but please don’t stop people from researching vaccines and thimerisol before vaccinating their kids. _People like you are dangerous_….”

    I’ve been thinking about that email today.

    I’m the one that is dangerous?

  7. me August 25, 2005 at 05:02 #

    Erik Nanstiel took the time to explain on the EoH list how a fortune teller told him that his child would be disabled or something, before she was born. He went off on this thing about how his life’s purpose was to do his videoing. This was in response to Mark Sircus’ “angels crying” “I pray for the doctor and staff” post.

    He needed to justify his part in this. It’s god’s will for him to promote chelation, he says. He also pointed out how he uses the “safe” chelation, the non-chelation from Buttar.

    I don’t think you are doing God’s will, Erik.

    I think you are misleading yourself, I think you are leading other parents to kill their children in the process of making them normal, just like this little boy’s parents did.

    That’s not God’s will, Erik.

    Your website is spreading evil, Erik.

    Erik, too bad the fortune teller didn’t tell you you could choose not to have a child, then you wouldn’t have to worry about chelating her. Oh, and the Bible says that fortune tellers work with the Devil.

  8. Autism Diva August 25, 2005 at 08:23 #

    The little boy is supposedly from the UK. His parents are quoted as saying that they only moved to the US so he could get chelation to cure him of autism.

    It wasn’t a really detailed quote or anything, but if it’s true, why did they buy into the American mania for chelation? We know why they had to go to the US to find a doctor stupid enough to use IV EDTA on a 5 year old… because only here to we have doctors that stupid, brainwashed and/or greedy.

    Since when do you take a child who is “heavy metal poisoned” to an eye ear nose and throat/ allergist/immunoligist?

    Children get legitimate chelation in hospitals, not in allergist’s offices.

    Abubakar was the little boy’s name.

    http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/regional/s_367277.html

  9. Erik Nanstiel August 25, 2005 at 13:42 #

    HN wrote: “Actually they are now going to be pushing Buttar’s cream because it is harmless. Harmless because it does not DO anything (still not convinced that it absorbed into anyone’s skin… testimonials are not evidence).”

    You wish it didn’t DO anything…but it does. My daughter’s toxicology reports verify that she’s dumping mercury and other bad metals at a much greater rate than she was prior to chelation. That’s NOT a testimonial. That’s evidence.

    Sorry to burst your bubble.

    ————–

    me wrote: “I don’t think you are doing God’s will, Erik.

    I think you are misleading yourself, I think you are leading other parents to kill their children in the process of making them normal, just like this little boy’s parents did. Your website is spreading evil, Erik.”

    The greatest evil is to continue to allow these children to be poisoned. The truth is, you have been blinded by your desire to be accepted for who and what you are. That is unfortunate. My daughter’s brain is not done growing and developing. She has a chance to be the person GOD meant her to be…what her DNA was intended to make her. It took bad science and bad medicine to poison her…and that’s an evil act of man. But the good news is that we can correct it, and we are doing just that.

    There is nothing you can do or say that will stay me from the course I am meant to take. I and the caring parents like me are here to stop any more children from becoming part of this epidemic. See what’s happening in China, Africa and the Middle east? Their autism numbers are growing at an alarming rate…but only since the WHO began distributing thimerosal-laced vaccines in those countries.

    So we have a LOT of work to do to stop this. If you’ll excuse me, I have to go prepare Mady Hornig’s interview for posting…

  10. Kev August 25, 2005 at 15:04 #

    “The greatest evil is to continue to allow these children to be poisoned.”

    Yeah you’re right. Killing your kids is a much lesser evil than them being ‘poisoned’.

    Seriously Erik, what kind of human being thinks like that?

    “here is nothing you can do or say that will stay me from the course I am meant to take”

    Finally, an admission that no amount of science would persuade someone like yourself Erik. How very revealing this comment of yours was.

  11. Erik Nanstiel August 25, 2005 at 15:09 #

    I don’t know ANYBODY who’s killing their kids. We have one incident where an incompetant/unqualified doctor screwed up with a drug that requires the utmost of caution.

    “Finally, an admission that no amount of science would persuade someone like yourself Erik. How very revealing this comment of yours was.”

    Twist that anyway you like, kevin. We ARE following the science…and it says we’re doing the right thing. THAT is why your bunch can’t sway us. You haven’t the science on your side. Just flawed epidemiology!

  12. Kev August 25, 2005 at 15:32 #

    You don’t know anybody thats killing their kids? You mean apart from the 5 year old boy who died on Tuesday?

    It doesn’t _matter_ who did it Erik. the fact is that that boy died after undergoing a poorly researched, poorly understood treatment that has no scientific validity and most tragically of all, was unnecessary. One day when you get it through your head that *all* kids develop you’ll understand. Possibly.

    Erik every time you come on here you claim to be following the science and every time you do I ask you to cite it. You never do. So I’ll ask you again – what science are you following that shows the thiomersal in vaccines causes autism and what science are you following that validates the idea of using chelation to ‘cure’ autism?

  13. Erik Nanstiel August 25, 2005 at 15:38 #

    Kevin, you know the website I maintain. The folks we interview… I’ll let THEM speak specifics on the science. You and I are not the experts, and are unlikely to discuss this to a mutually-satisfactory conclusion.

    You want to debate the science? Debate the doctors that appear on our website!

  14. Kev August 25, 2005 at 15:49 #

    Yeah, nice cop-out Erik.

    I’m no scientist either but I know the difference between something thats valid (by which I mean peer reviewed in a medical/science journal) and something someones just decided works. I _know_ why they believe theyre right. What I’m interested in is why _you_ believe they’re right and why you see fit to legitamise what they do by referring to it as science when you know full well it meets no such criteria.

  15. Erik Nanstiel August 25, 2005 at 15:58 #

    My cop out? What about your cop out? What do you fear by writing Dr. Boyd Haley, or Richard Deth with your concerns? Give it a try, then post the exchange on your blog. I’d like to see that.

  16. Kev August 25, 2005 at 16:03 #

    How does me asking you to discuss your beliefs about science become my cop out exactly?

    However, I may soon be able to do exactly as you wish. Boyd Haley any way.

  17. JP August 25, 2005 at 17:32 #

    With all due respect, what has Boyd Haley or Richard Deth done in terms of clinical trials for chelation therapy vis-a-vis autism? Haley’s a chemist, Deth’s work (if I understand correctly) has been mostly in vitro to date. Folks like Buttar and Bradstreet and Cave, who have been using these types of biomedical treatments for years, would be better suited to answer Kevin’s questions.

    Again, I understand the passion on each side. And I do partially accept the argument that one fatal incident with regards to chelation does not invalidate the practice – just as one fatal vaccine reaction wouldn’t invalidate the use of vaccines to prevent certain infectious diseases.

    But here’s the twist. I’d accept the premise that chelation therapy is “experimental” and comes with substantial risks, and that doctors are trying it to see if it really does work on children. However, I believe the chelationists dramatically overstate the effectiveness or safety without proof of said effectiveness or safety. I mean, it’s not like they’re not performing clinical trials to see if it works – they’re selling it to the masses as a product. That’s a big difference, IMO.

  18. Amber August 25, 2005 at 19:06 #

    I am sure there have to be peer reviewed articles SOMEWHERE on pubmed or something about chelation with these drugs. I have not had a chance to look them up.

    But what I am curious about is that all the news stories I have read about this boy’s death say he was being chelated for lead poisoning. I did look up EDTA and found it is an FDA approved treatment for lead poisoning.

    Maybe this boy did have lead poisoning? Maybe we are all jumping the gun. I’m sure autistic people can get lead poisoning just like NT’s.

  19. Erik Nanstiel August 25, 2005 at 19:15 #

    Regressive autistics are more susceptible to lead poisoning because they seem to be less able to excrete these metals. Perhaps it was for lead poisoning. I haven’t read to see if more details have come out…

  20. HN August 25, 2005 at 20:22 #

    The comment from the mother about lead poisoning is a common way to cover a perpetrator’s butt when something goes wrong.

    Also, the doctor was an otolaryngologist and allergist, not a toxicologist. He had no business sticking an IV into anyone, much less that child.

    There is a reason why the mom moved them from the UK… the NHS would not allow it for good reason.

    If the kid REALLY had lead poisoning, then the EDTA would have bound to the lead, not the calcium in his blood. The reduction in calcium is possibly what lead to the heart failure. The term is hypocalcemia:
    http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic271.htm

    Lead poisoning can lead to symptoms of developmental delay, but they are usually high and measurable:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8618251&query_hl=2
    Hair analysis would not be a sufficient test (especially from a mail-order lab). More information from the Mayo Clinic:
    http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?id=FL00068

    The only information I could find about autistics being more susceptible to lead poisoning was if they were exposed to sources like old paint chips (like the link above) and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15829126&query_hl=2 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12449265&query_hl=2

  21. bonni August 26, 2005 at 01:40 #

    Maybe this boy did have lead poisoning?

    Perhaps he did. But even the UK (where the family moved from in order to get the chelation) knows how to treat legitimate lead poisoning, don’t they?

    Point being, if the child was really suffering from lead poisoning, I would think the UK medial system would have been able to provide treatment, without the family having to migrate to the United States in order to get it.

  22. JP August 26, 2005 at 02:49 #

    Amber,

    There are no peer-reviewed articles that I’m aware of that illustrate the use of chelation to be effective for children who exhibit autistic behaviors.

  23. Prometheus August 26, 2005 at 04:32 #

    Although EDTA is approved for treating lead poisoning, the drug recommended for this is DMSA – and has been for almost thirty years. DMSA is much better at chelating mercury and lead and is also much, much safer than EDTA.

    In addition, the form of EDTA used for lead poisoning is sodium-calcium EDTA, which reduces the risk of hypocalcemia. The type of EDTA most commonly available – and the one used by “chelationists” who also “treat” coronary artery disease, is disodium EDTA. The story so far is very suggestive of a sudden cardiac arrest, probably due to severe hypocalcemia. We will have to wait for the information to trickle out, but I’m willing to bet a significant sum of money that the drug used was disodium EDTA.

    The autism-mercury movement is actively doing damage control on the Internet as you read this. Although most of them don’t recommend using EDTA (maybe ‘cuz it doesn’t work for mercury and is dangerous?), they know that they are responsible for producing the fear and rush to “treatment” in parents of autistic children.

    They also know that the science they use to support their claims is weak to non-existent. As a result, they are responsible for creating the fear that led to a demand for chelation to remove mercury from autistic children. That this demand led to some parents choosing “back-alley chelationists” is a tragedy.

    The fellow who used EDTA on a 5-year-old child – for mercury or lead “poisoning” – deserves to go to jail for criminal negligence. The people who brought us to this sorry juncture should accompany him, but that is not the way the law will see it. At the very least, they should have the decency to be ashamed of what they have done – but they won’t be.

    Being a Crusader means never having to say that you’re sorry…or might be wrong.

    Prometheus.

  24. Autism Diva August 26, 2005 at 10:00 #

    Erik,

    your lab tests and your daughter’s are bogus. You have pinned your hopes on a money making trick.

    It doesn’t bother you in the least that no one has ever tested a child’s blood to see if the stuff is going in to the child?

    Does it make your daughter’s urine smell really bad? If it doesn’t– it’s not getting into her system.

    Will you be posting the bogus Buttar’s latest video to your site? We all are waiting to hear his presentation of all his wonderful science. He will tell us how much of the DMPS is found in the subject’s blood right? and it’s half life? Right?

    No. Because he knows it doesn’t go past the skin.

    If Dr. Kerry is arrested he’s going to blow the whistle on the whole DAN! business, or it seems likely that he will.

  25. Erik Nanstiel August 26, 2005 at 18:39 #

    You can’t assume my daughter’s toxicological tests were bogus. You don’t know which lab I used, their methods, etc. etc.

    However the SAME lab was used for each test. The samples used were collected in exactly the same way each time…and the later tests showed much more mercury excretion than previous, pre-chelation tests.

    So therefore, I tell you, TD-DMPS gets PAST the skin and into the blood stream. And Yes, chelation makes her urine smell a little different. Higher doses of chelation make her a little uncontrollable…because of the release of stored testosterone…

    I’m so sorry if this doesn’t fit with your preconceived model of reality. But it’s the fact of the matter.

  26. HN August 26, 2005 at 21:06 #

    “So therefore, I tell you, TD-DMPS gets PAST the skin and into the blood stream. ”

    Prove it.

    Find verifiable documentaion that it actually happens. Not anecdotes, not testimonies… but actual verifiable documentation.

    Otherwise you are just blowing hot air.

  27. JP August 26, 2005 at 22:18 #

    You can’t assume my daughter’s toxicological tests were bogus. You don’t know which lab I used, their methods, etc. etc.

    No, we don’t. We don’t know anything about toxicological tests of children before and after TD-DMPS or other forms of chelation. We don’t know anything about how children really are before and after chelation, at least not using any verifiable standard.

    The only thing we know is what parents tell us. No clinical trials, no peer-reviewed research. Just parents getting lab results back (from labs which may or may not be of high quality) and doctors (who also may or may not be of high quality) telling them what the significance of those results are.

  28. Rita August 27, 2005 at 00:48 #

    I have a five year old on chelation and my proof is my son . He is better since starting the chelation. He has been on it for six months. That is the only proof I need. My husband and I have plenty of money and if we choose to give it to the so-called “quacks” who help our son, that is our business.

    I do not need ths science. Science also stated Vioxx was safe and people are dropping like flies from taking that now….

    God bless Dr. Anju Usman and all the other wonderful docs who are helping our children.

  29. HN August 27, 2005 at 03:25 #

    “I have a five year old on chelation and my proof is my son ”

    If he was part of a research group that took notes and lab data from before and after that could be pertinent. If you can would you please tell us when the paper might be published. That way we can evaluate it from testing procedures to conclusions.

    Otherwise, if you think your testimonial is going to work… sorry, no dice. YOU may not need the science (VIOXX is a strawman), but many of us do.

    As of the moment there is no real evidence that chelation does anything for autism.

    THERE is evidence that it has its costs, not only in money but in the health of children (think “Edelson”, http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/edelson.html ) and in the death of another.

    Also, it may be YOUR business to give money to quacks for treatments… but it seems that SOME of you all have told us that WE are negligent with just sticking to boring ol’ speech and occupational therapy.

    Some are here where Kevin is told to “give his daughter a better life”:

    Letter To JB Handley, Founder Of Generation Rescue

    and the guy who wants to test the children of people who disagree with him:
    http://www.neurodiversity.com/handley_exchange.html

    For almost 8 years I was on a disability listserv. I finally left it after all the nut-balls took over… basically making parents feel less than adequate if they did NOT give in the latest fad.

  30. Kev August 27, 2005 at 06:38 #

    “God bless Dr. Anju Usman and all the other wonderful docs who are helping our children.”

    Jesus Christ. You people never stop do you? The only thing the ‘wondeful doc’ in this case did was help this child to die. It sickens me to think of you lot sending messages of support to a Doctor who committed malpractice. If you believe thats an OK thing to do then there’s something seriously wrong with you.

  31. Rita August 27, 2005 at 14:45 #

    Did I say “thats an ok thing to do” I do not recall saying that. People make choices all the time. Some work some do not. That’s life. Malpractice occurs everyday in this country and others. Children and adults lose their lives everyday at the hands of horrible practitioners and even good ones who make mistakes. Fortunately, the loss if life from chelation does not occur often. Science is never perfect and nothing is never ever certain with anything we do. People know the risks as they do with other procedures.

    If other parents choose to do just speech therapy and occupatinal therapy that is there business. I am not advocating chelation for anyone but for us it is our choice.

    God Bless Dr. Anju and the other wonderful doctors who help our children.

  32. Kev August 27, 2005 at 16:27 #

    “Did I say “thats an ok thing to do” I do not recall saying that.”

    So why did you do it?

    “Science is never perfect and nothing is never ever certain with anything we do. People know the risks as they do with other procedures.”

    The difference is that most people use approved medicines which are designed for a specific purpose proven to have an effect on the problem they are prescribed for. Chelation has no measurable effect on autism – except obviously as a potential fatality.

    As such, this child died for nothing. What a waste.

  33. Rita August 27, 2005 at 17:06 #

    My sons doctor has not committed malpractice. I do not know the all the facts regarding the young child in Pennsylvania and neither do you.

    As far as proven procedures let me tell about those, which until now I was not going to discuss on a website and after this comment I will get back to taking care of my children and may I suggest the same to you.

    I lost a child two years ago through the negligence of a doctor. My daughter was not a special needs child as my son is. So, my viewpoint may be coming through a different set of eyes.

    Live and let live. If you have time to spend on the internet all day, surely you are missing valuable and precious time with you family.

    God Bless you. and your children.

    God Bless Dr. Anjus Usman and all the DAN doctors.

  34. Erik Nanstiel August 27, 2005 at 23:24 #

    Anju Usman does not administer IV-EDTA. While she has had this little boy as a patient, the parents went to a doctor (not a DAN! doctor) in Pennsylvania to get him this IV treatment that IS approved by the FDA for lead poisoning.

    He was being treated for LEAD POISONING.

  35. Kev August 27, 2005 at 23:47 #

    “Live and let live. If you have time to spend on the internet all day, surely you are missing valuable and precious time with you family.”

    I’m in the UK – I think you might’ve missed your timings somewhat.

    And live and let live? Oh the irony.

  36. Kev August 27, 2005 at 23:49 #

    Erik – scroll up – read Prometheus’ comments.

  37. bonni August 28, 2005 at 01:29 #

    He was being treated for LEAD POISONING.

    He could have been treated for that in the UK. They have facilities there to do it. It’s not a third world nation or anything.

    The family came to the United States specifically to get chelation for their autistic son.

  38. Susan August 28, 2005 at 06:21 #

    WOW! This is quite the hot spot. I’m mother to five children, two of them autistic. I’ve stumbled onto your site. Kevin, are you parent to an autistic child?

    My husband and I are looking into chelation. We wouldn’t rather have them dead than autistic. I think that you’re getting pretty dramatic with that one. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just because no one responded the way YOU think they should’ve doesn’t mean you can put words in their mouths. But you did.

    I’m an RN and I’m not opposed to any treatment that may help. If we wait for someone to prove Buttar’s cream works and that toxic metals have bearing on autism, our children will be autistic adults languishing in group homes. I agree with – was it Rita? If I see a difference in my child, that’s proof enough for me. To watch my youngest son (9 y.o.) not be able to speak and just ask for a freaking drink without major charades is enough motivation for me to investigate into ANY treatment. He’s so smart, and trapped in there. He’s very interactive and social, and has excellent eye contact. When I look into his eyes I know I have to keep looking for something that could help. He tries sooooo hard to communicate.

    So, I hope that you’ll not be so angry someday Kevin. Everything I read here posted by you is angry. Again, you’re entitled to your opinion, as we all are. I just feel it’s rather counterproductive to attack each other.

    I wish only the best to you and yours.

  39. Kev August 28, 2005 at 06:40 #

    You bet I’m angry Susan. Maybe it takes more than the totally unnecessary death of a child to get you angry but I’m afraid I’m not quite as clinically detatched as you.

    Yes I am parent to an autistic child. She’s 5. My remarks weren’t particularly directed at you (how could they be?) but towards the loose group of people I referenced in my post.

    You too seem remarkably ignorant regarding autism. Why would you presume that because your son can’t talk now that he’ll be ‘languishing in group homes’ as an adult? That makes me prett angry too. I’d assume you know no autistic adults. Here’s a fact for you – there’s at least 3 who’ve posted on this thread. Do they seem like people who are ‘languishing in group homes’ to you?

    I’m not sure where you think I’ve put words in anyones mouth – where did I do that exaclty?

  40. Susan August 28, 2005 at 10:21 #

    My apologies Kev, on the “words in the mouth” comment. That would be someone else who posted.

    As for “it takes more than the totally unnecessary death of a child to get you angry”, I would disagree. However, I’m looking at this from the point of view of a parent. I don’t know how severe your daughter is, but I’ve learned one thing for sure from living with two autistic sons. That would be to not judge others for their actions regarding their children when it comes to choosing a treatment plan they think will work. Are you saying that everyone should choose what you’re doing with your child and nothing else? What if the shoe were on the other foot? What if OT and speech were controversial and there was no research to confirm their success, along with the possibility of harm to the child? I’m simply saying that I completely understand and do not blame parents for trying what they feel may work for their child. That doesn’t make me angry at all.

    I never thought your comments were directed at me. That would be impossible, up until now.

    As for autistic adults, again — I don’t know how severe your child is, but my oldest son will not be able to live on his own. I totally see that you like to stir the pot and get people going, as this is how you deal with the anger you feel in life. Whatever; to each his own. However, in the spirit of debate, I would disagree that I’m ignorant regarding autism. I would say that it is YOU who are ignorant. I fully understand that for many on the very broad spectrum of ASD, independent living is a possibility. I don’t think that every autistic person is going to be in assisted living as an adult. I’m afraid that’s the case with my son who’s almost 12, and additionally the case for many of the children I know with autism. Some of these children I refer to are 18, not toilet trained and cannot speak or care for themselves. This most obviously doesn’t refer to all with ASD. My son who CAN speak is the one who will obviously need assistance as an adult. I hold great hope for my silent little one. He’s very different from his brother, and very capable and independent already. We have utilized every form of OT, speech, PECS, etc., on and on, with BOTH. They are two very different autistic children, however. I am most certainly not ignorant to the broad spectrum, as I see it daily in my home.

    Being the parent of an autistic child(ren) is living in the cycle of grief permanently. The 5 stages of grief are (not necessarily in this order) denial, anger, depression, bargaining, and acceptance. It’s possible to vacillate between all 5 with regularity. I know that’s the case around here with my husband and I. Usually we’re in two different stages, so it works out. This grief is normal, and it’s also normal to get stuck in one phase for an extended period of time. My husband lived in denial for about 8 yrs., until our littlest one became so horrifically violent and destructive that we had to hospitalize him for four months. Now he’s president of our chapter of Autism Society, and couldn’t be more involved. We still have gigantic holes in the walls of our home, and scars on our bodies as well as our hearts. At least he’s better now, not running out the door and almost being hit by a car with regularity, and living here at home where a 9 yr. old belongs. My husband is the first to admit living in denial for so long. He’s a very quiet and private man, and now he speaks out anywhere and everywhere he can about our experiences with autism. We advocate in our community and our province constantly. We’re lobbying to get an ABA based program in our school system, as our son did amazingly with it, and when it ended is when he slid so far backward and became violent.

    Well, I think that’s it for the moment. It’s 5am here, and I went to sleep at 2:30a. My oldest son woke me up at 4:30a. He’s done stomping around and yelling for now, and looks like he may sleep. I’m going to do the same while I can.

    Again, I wish only the best to you and your family.

  41. Helen August 28, 2005 at 22:42 #

    How is it that most of the autistic adults, that I know of are all against the curing of autism.

    There could even be a difference if vital therapies, speech therapy and play therapy was available as early intervention.

    What is the proof that autism is linked to mercury-poisoning. I am a biology student. AND whatever happens I am staying in a scientific job. I was learning about the environmental sides last term. And even what the body NEEDS to stay alive, It NEEDS copper a heavy metal, it needs things that are poisonous such as sodium, pottasium and chlorine.

    How can anyone be certain that chelation is not removing the metals that are needed.

    The main thing is that the research is going into WHAT is the environmental factor in causing Autism. AND the best interventions for each and every child to help them function.

    Oh and even the most high functioning with Aspergers, like myself had independent living ruled out. I am doing now for 7 months every year.

  42. Susan August 29, 2005 at 02:29 #

    I have no idea on autistic adults and what they think about “curing” autism. I don’t think that chelation will “cure” anybody. I think that if there’s an imbalance in the body that is rectified, or a toxic substance that’s mucking up the works, then they can improve if things are set straight chemically/physiologically. (Is that a word?!) : )

    Yes, there are vital metals in the body. Iron, copper, zinc, to name a few. Chelation removes ALL metals, therefore the Dr. in charge has to carefully monitor the pt’s. levels and of course supplement minerals that are removed. It’s a very intricate process, from what I’ve gathered by my research on the topic.

    As for play therapy, OT, speech…..yes, my sons have had it all. The thing that was most helpful was Behavioral Therapy. It is prohibitively expensive, however. We’re currently lobbying to get it into the schools because it’s so effective with most ASD people.

    Again, may I refer to my earlier comment that some of the autistic kids I know are 18, not toilet trained, and cannot speak or care for themselves. You obviously are not afflicted as they are, and that’s great! My point is, the more severely affected children/people need a lot of help. I understand why parents are trying anything to help their child. I agree with your comment “the best interventions for each and every child to help them function.” This indeed is what’s needed, and why parents are always listening and looking for something to help their children. Anyway, again I have to say “to each his own”.

    I enjoy this site. There are very interesting people here, and I’ll continue to check in. You must’ve been out and about today, Kevin. Haven’t seen you in here this evening, and it’s the middle of the night there. Hopefully you’re fast asleep. I hope to stay that way tonight as well! I’m keeping my fingers crossed that my son doesn’t get up again tonight. I’m very short on the zzzz’s, and have to brush up a speech I’m presenting at a rally tomorrow a.m. Good night to all.

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