What was a disagreement about the causes of autism is widening into a war. This isn’t a war between parents and scientists. Its a war between one set of parents and a group comprised of other parents, scientists and autistics themselves. Its a war between flexibility and acceptance on one side and a rigid determination to ‘cure’ on the other.
To cure what? Good question. Some believe that autism and its attendant comorbidities are interchangeable. That constipation and a different way of looking at things are the same thing. That dyspraxia and a lack of imaginative ability are the same thing. Others believe that the two things are quite separate. That the comorbidities that are attendant with autism in _some_ people cannot be used to define autism. That the condition of being autistic bequeaths gifts as well as troubles (and it does bequeath troubles, lets not pretend it doesn’t) and that keeping the troubles is a small price to pay for keeping the gifts.
There are lots of questions that arise from these ideas of course but lets further examine the stance of the opposition to these two camps. For those that see autism as a medical as well as developmental issue there seems to be a residual pool of dislike, verging into outright hatred for those that don’t. They think that their opposition are abandoning kids to their horrible autistic fate. For them there are no shades of grey – its either black or white. These people also seek to play down and even attempt to rewrite official diagnostic criteria to downplay the ‘higher’ end of the spectrum.
Mr Lietch (sic) thinks it is in the child’s best interest to do absolutely nothing to ameliorate this condition [the writers son] . And, he and his associates knock parents for trying to help our children
This condition. Autism, one assumes. The question to which I repeatedly put to John Best was what constituted autism? Best constantly (and still does) fails to appreciate the distinction:
…You claim head banging and feces smearing are not autism. Is this supposed to obscure the issue? These are not normal and are very much a part of autism….
Up until now all we have is debate – its a debate that takes no prisoners to be sure, but its a debate nonetheless. However, things invariably take a turn for the worse:
Your neurodiverse pals who sneeringly refer to people who try to help children as “curebies”
Sounds diabolical doesn’t it? Us sneeringly cruel ‘neurodiverse’ (sic) want to stop people helping children. Something of bizarre belief seeing as quite a lot of people who consider themselves aligned with the notion of respecting autism are parents themselves. But wait! We forget that…
Anyone who is not chelating to get rid of the mercury is guilty of child abuse. Every doctor who is not telling their patients to chelate is guilty of malpractice….. Any parent who listens to the doctors tell them that there is no known cause or cure for autism is too damn stupid to have kids.
Except of course the truth is somewhat different. The truth is (as I have repeatedly said) that respecting autism is not the same thing as respecting someone gastric issues. If your child smears faeces then find out why and intervene. If your child bangs their head on the wall, buy them a scrum cap, figure out why and intervene. If your child has gastric issues, find out what they are and intervene. *If your child is mercury poisoned then get a proper doctor to chelate them*. But don’t fool yourself that by removing someones need to bang their head against a wall you are removing their autism as you are not and cannot. that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. It does mean you need to have realistic expectations. It does mean you need to be prepared to look at your child at the beginning, during and end of the process of treatment you have for them and say ‘I would love you no matter what’. You need to understand that because someone can’t speak doesn’t mean they can’t hear and to hear who they are described as ‘rotting in an abyss’ or ‘worse than hell’ or ‘diseased’ is going to do that child no good at all.
Frequently those if us who believe in acceptance are told by those that don’t that we are ignoring childrens needs:
And, Kev, have you done research on the trailer-dwelling coo-coos you now are affiliated with? You keep harping on the symptom profile of autism. Look, mate, our kids ALL share the same physical symptoms. I had twin autistic boys over to my house this weekend. They are six. They’ve never been treated. They can’t talk, much less function, they require 24 hour care. They have all the same physical issues my son HAD, which have since resolved. In your coo-coo world these parents would do nothing. Shameful and idiotic.
I have to admit to not being too sure what ‘coo-coo’ means but I’m assuming its not good. As ever though, the point is missed – no-one, repeat *no-one* is saying parents shouldn’t intervene where kids can’t talk or can’t function and I challenge JB Handley (or anyone else) to find any statement where I have advocated that belief. Its increasingly hysterical fear-mongering because its rapidly dawning on these people that they are looking increasingly fundamentalist and fringe.
You might note I’ve quoted extensively from JB Handley and John Best Jr here. I do so because they are both strongly affiliated with Generation Rescue, the group that apparently gives parents the knowledge to make an informed choice. Yeah. Knowledge like:
There is no evidence to suggest that autism is genetic. No autism gene has ever been found and the search will be endless – how can you have a gene for a mythical condition? Autism is mercury poisoning
So, John Best Jr and JB Handley are all about promoting choice and informed decisions. So much so that they launch into full on attack mode and misrepresent people’s beliefs. Sometimes the attacks get very, very personal indeed:
Muslim terrorists who fly planes into tall buildings have a different set of beliefs than others. Your neurodiverse pals who sneeringly refer to people who try to help children as “curebies” and go to extreme measures in attempts to discredit those people are in the same class.
John Best associating the World Trade Center attack with my belief that acceptance and flexibility is best. I couldn’t quite believe he’d actually said that so I asked for clarification:
You spout your nonsense in much the same way that terrorists shout for Allah before they blow things up with bombs strapped to themselves. That agenda is more than a little bit wacky to most people who are thinking straight.
Yup, he meant it all right. Don’t forget, John Best Jr is a ‘Rescue Angel’ – one who is charged by Generation Rescue with informing parents about mercury and chelation. He is a spokesman for Generation Rescue.
The populace of Generation Rescue have a particular dislike of Kathleen Seidel. They see her as the ‘spokesperson’ of ‘the neurodiverse’ probably because of the domain. In a very disturbing attack, Best again mistakes autism with comorbidity, goes after Kathleen and at the same time confirms that for him, ‘better dead than autistic’ is certainly true:
..So they miss out on curing their children and the kids wind up spending their lives in institutions. In effect, they never enjoy one second of the lives they could have had if only the mercury had been removed from their brains. Ms Seidel might as well have put a bullet in those kids so they would not have suffered. Does that sound about right, Kevin?
One wonders – is ‘better dead than autistic’ a policy decision of Generation Rescue?
John Best, that (typical?) fine, upstanding member of Generation Rescue also has views on the failings of the diagnostic criteria for autism:
Your adult Asperger’s friends would have been called by a different name when I was young and nobody was aware of the effects of the mercury they’ve been shooting into us since the 1930’s. They would have been called nerds.
Nice.
Best is, of course, attempting to paint all within the ‘neurodiverse’ (sic) movement as AS. Of course, his theory founders on the fact that it is not. But still, I wonder – is insulting autistics another policy of Generation Rescue?
I don’t believe for a moment that everyone in the Biomed community thinks like Best, or Handley come to that, which makes it a pity that so very many in the Biomed community see that our thoughts as a threat to them – so much of a threat that even an appalling loss of life such as the World Trade Center attacks is not above being denigrated in an attempt to demonise people such as I.
I’ve said it before and I say it again now. The Biomed community needs to take a long hard look at itself and who its most vocal proponents are. Do you honestly believe that your cause is well served by referring to others as akin to bombers? Or child abusers? or nerds?
Is this something you really think will attract people to your way of thinking?
Is this a position from which you think is substantial enough to build from?
Are these words which you feel serve you well, personally?
Left Brain Right Brain 
I think “coo-coo” means cuckoo.
Kevin, you obviously have no problem with us “biomed” parents treating conditions that you consider “comorbid” with autism.
However, I’m not sure what comorbid is supposed to mean…as though all these regressive-autistic kids just coincidentally have these gastric and toxicity issues… most of which appear right at the time of their regression… what fool WOULDN’T look for a common trigger???
And when you see these kids LOSING their diagnoses of autism after treating all their biomedical “comorbidities”…
I just don’t “get” you…what is it you’re missing in all this?
I want to try to bridge this. I apologize if I get a few things wrong, but I think what you are both missing (Kevin AND the Generation Rescue folks) is that both parties are most likely trying to help people with autism. That should be the bottom line. Kevin, I believe, stands for acceptance for and love of the person with autism, above all other things. That acceptance must be present in the relationship. Kevin, I believe, is saying that you should treat whatever conditions come from the autism, be it head-banging or intestinal disorders, but do not treat with an eye towards ending autism.
The Generation Rescue folks believe that they are curing autism using many different and sometimes unproven approaches. They believe — this is my take on their viewpoint — that it is wrong not to try all sorts of approaches because, who would want to be autistic? The problem with this is, they blame the autism and they revile autism itself, not the problems that arise from some forms of autism, and turn autistic people into second class citizens with this attitude. That does a lot of harm. By referring to autism as a disease, they put people off because it is a harsh word for what others feel is a different way of being. I think the trouble with the Gen. Rescue viewpoint is that they may lose sight of the person involved, in the frantic rush to stamp out the autistic symptoms. And it does seem frantic because some of the remedies (chelation, injections, e.g.) are questionable.
The problem with autism is the issues that arise from difficulties in processing and communication. It is important to try to educate people with autism in how best to ameliorate these difficulties so that they can lead happy, independent lives. None of us should lose sight of that.
_”However, I’m not sure what comorbid is supposed to mean…as though all these regressive-autistic kids just coincidentally have these gastric and toxicity issues… most of which appear right at the time of their regression… what fool WOULDN’T look for a common trigger???….I just don’t “get†you…what is it you’re missing in all this?”_
Because, as I say Erik, its all down to comorbidities vs actual autism. Comorbidities are things that _may_ occur. You cannot define someones autism solely on these things. Things that are common to _all_ autistics are what appear in the diagnostic criteria.
The key is in your scentence here:
_”as though all these regressive-autistic kids just coincidentally have these gastric and toxicity issues..”_
The point being that not *all*, or even *most* autisitcs have gastric issues or toxicity. All these families that are atracted to the biomed community are attracted based on like for like – you attract people whose kids have similar symptoms and have mistakenly assumed that this equates to *all* kids of the 90’s.
Here’s an all-purpose definition of comorbidity and heres a paper on psychiatric comorbidities of autism here’s a link to a group dedicated to comorbidities of autism and here’s a link to a site that discusses how autism can itself be a comorbidity (in this case of Down’s Syndrome.
Erik,
How common are gastric issues with regressive autistics? Do you have a number? A percentage backed by study?
Do you have a study that shows children improving after chelation and losing their diagnosis, in greater rates than a control group or even the general autistic population?
Didn’t think so.
I have zero objection with research being done on the potential causes of autism, even if those causes are unpleasant to my stance on vaccination.
I have zero objection to research that can help alleviate problems that tend to crop up in autistics, even if they involve treatments that seem a bit odd or wacky on the surface.
I object to claims made that autism=mercury poisoning or thimerosal causes autism without a reasonable amount of scientific proof. If the anti-thimerosal group would admit that they’re working on a hypothesis and their treatments are very much experimental, I’d be more inclined to give them some slack. It’s the promotion of groups like Generation Rescue that mercury poisoning *is* autism or ADD that I have a problem with.
Susan Senator wrote:
“The problem with autism is the issues that arise from difficulties in processing and communication. It is important to try to educate people with autism in how best to ameliorate these difficulties so that they can lead happy, independent lives.”
Well, yes, ameliorating difficulties is one of the important things. If a child needs speech therapy, a keyboard, or some other form of assistance with communication, it should be provided. Human beings all process information in different ways, and it is helpful (not just for the autistic population, but also for people in general) to identify issues that can be problematic and to adjust one’s environment accordingly.
While your attempt to “bridge” the two sides is admirable, I have to agree with Kev that this argument goes a lot deeper than just a disagreement on the best methods of ameliorating problems. It goes to the root of how our society treats people who differ from the norm, that is, whether the identification of a minority group results in acceptance or intolerance.
From the neurodiversity point of view, “the problem with autism” cannot be solved merely by educating the autistic population in how to communicate and interact more effectively with non-autistics. It is also vital to educate the mainstream population in how to understand and respond to others’ differences respectfully.
I suppose you could say that I have “difficulties in processing and communication” because my speech and body language appear awkward to most people, I may not recognize faces, etc. However, you could just as accurately describe my capacity for processing and communication as above average, if you were focusing specifically on my ability to process and communicate written information. This brings us to a more basic question: How does our society decide what traits it values in its members?
To put the question another way, if it were possible to change an autistic person’s speech and body language into something that was not recognizably autistic, how would that improve his or her chances of leading a happy, independent life? We all know the answer to this, don’t we? Such a person’s life would be happier and more independent only to the extent that he or she no longer had to face social stigma and discrimination.
Shouldn’t we be more concerned about changing our world, for our children’s sake, into one where a neurological difference doesn’t automatically result in a lifetime of second-class status?
Wait…..Paul is dead? I’m pretty sure that they found a new Paul to take his place when he went through the red light. It’s all there in the song if you know how to listen properly 😉
Susan says it best (not Pete or John Best): “both parties are most likely trying to help people with autism.”
I think it’s important to remember that. One major difference between the two sides of the issue, is that JB and company are certain they know what causes autism. I have no doubt that they see their anger and outrage as justifiable but they fail to consider the possibility that they are wrong. Failure is not an option. If they are wrong, and mercury doesn’t cause autism, why is it so difficult to recognize how damaging the Autism=Mercury Poisoning campaign will be if it is wrong? You see when JB became convinced that his child was mercury poisoned he took a look around and noticed a lot of people saying the same thing but they lacked a business plan and organization. You can’t convince the world that your child was mercury poisoned if you are wishy-washy and unwilling to state with 100% certainty that it’s mercury. Failure is not an option. State your position, say it like you mean it, and don’t back down. Doubt is perceived as weakness. Failure is not an option.
How should adult autistics and parents of children with autism react when a small group is doing their best to tell the world that autism is mercury poisoning? Can you blame them for their outrage? It is outrageous and offensive beyond words and it is damaging to all people with autism including the children of the mercury parents.
The problem is that social stigma and discrimination is so deeply rooted in society that it will take decades, if not centuries, to educate the population and change its attitude toward those who are different, including autistics. That’s why it is important to work both on autistic behavior as well as on educating the public. Once the stereotypes disappear (which, from what I know about humanity, will unfortunately happen just about the same time the Messiah arrives), there will be no more need for changing autistic behavior. Though teaching them to express themselves would still be necessary (verbally or non-verbally).
“Anyone who is not chelating to get rid of the mercury is guilty of child abuse.”
Yes, anyone who doesn’t want to poison their kids with chelating agents because they aren’t sure they were poisoned in the first place should be sent to jail immediately! So what if some of these non-chelating parents’ autistic children are great success stories?
Bonnie’s statement, “a person’s life would be happier and more independent only to the extent that he or she no longer had to face social stigma and discrimination.” is absolutely where I intended to go with my “bridge.” In trying to stamp out autism, people could do real harm to their children’s psyches. I do believe, however, that the more an autistic person can be taught to function in this difficult world, the better chance they have at happiness. My son has severe autism, and it is not our acceptance of him — or lack thereof — that causes him misery at times; it is his inability to communicate, to find the words. If he could be given some kind of miraculous therapy that would help him talk I really do believe it would make a difference in his frustration level. But of course he would still be prone to other miseries, being a human being!
I think the key is to look for proven therapies, tried-and-true, safe approaches that bolster a child’s strengths, and help him express himself. That is the best we can do, other than — of course — to love him completely for who he is. The more comfortable we are with our own children and in our own skins, the more others will be comfortable around us. That is how I believe you change the world.
“I think the key is to look for proven therapies, tried-and-true, safe approaches that bolster a child’s strengths, and help him express himself.”
Problem is that so few of these exist.
Lovaas’ ABA is totally discreditable since the methodology was crooked… all the way along. The chelation lot have yet to come up with a reliable study, and are compromisd by the same willingness to fail to adhere to scientific method as Lovaas was.
I worked in medical physics and remediation engineering. We dealt with communication handicapped persons’ difficulties using IT solutions. If a person had a difficulty with speech, we let them use a lap top with a speech synth… yes, the Stephen Hawking stuff.
We worked with them using codes developed with them. We developed other ways of doing things… like using small hand-held devices with set words and phrases on them.
And we worked to what they wanted.
I do believe that anything used to assist in skill acquisition and development must be safe; my only thing here is the notion of tried and true. Such a way of working, sadly, doesn’t exist.
I use Vygotskyan, Lewinian and Kellyan ideas with my daughter. And I take into account her individual differences.
And that’s largely it.
I’m looking into a study to do with my girl for my child psychology practical… will keep yous all posted.
Susan wrote:
“I do believe, however, that the more an autistic person can be taught to function in this difficult world, the better chance they have at happiness. My son has severe autism, and it is not our acceptance of him—or lack thereof—that causes him misery at times; it is his inability to communicate, to find the words. ”
I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that you were causing your son misery, and I hope that wasn’t how you interpreted my comment. Rather, I was referring to the broader issue of social acceptance. I don’t disagree in any way with your statement that parents should “look for proven therapies, tried-and-true, safe approaches that bolster a child’s strengths, and help him express himself.”
But I am not willing to accept this as “the best we can do.” There’s a huge amount of prejudice and discrimination out there, and it needs to be confronted through political activism, in much the same way as we have seen with other minority groups. For example, the equal employment opportunity laws could be changed to include neurological differences as a protected category. Public school administrative policies could be made more inclusive and respectful, rather than just paying lip service to the concept of inclusion. And so on.
Our society has improved its treatment of many other minorities considerably in recent years, and I believe that it is possible for the social status of neurological minorities to improve in a relatively short period as well, by raising public awareness of the civil rights issues.
Bonnie,
I am SO with you!!!! We MUST address the inequities in society, absolutely. That’s why I ran for School Board in my town. There were no autism programs in my town back then. I have frequently thought of how accommodations often fail to include the neurological. I tell people that the behavioral therapist is my son’s wheelchair.
Thank you (and Kevin and co.) for helping me hone my thoughts. 🙂
Does this come down to the fact that “Ameliorate those symptoms and comorbidities of autism that cause distress to the person while striving for a more inclusive society that accepts neurodiversity!” doesn’t fit on a placard in the same way that “Cure autism now!” does?
I’ve just finished an OU course that briefly covered the social vs medical models of disability; in a very simplistic view, autism is about 10 years behind other areas of disability in getting the social model more widely accepted.
or nerds?
What’s wrong with being a nerd, anyway? Why is that something evil or vile or whatever? I’m wondering if the people who sling these insults are the same ones who used to torment me (and many others) in junior high school because we were too different for their tiny little brains to cope with…
What a spot Jamie Handley has been put in. Whatever progress he does or does not happen to make…he’s a little boy, not a trophy.
“the neurodiversity folks want their children to rot in closetsâ€
Like I could keep my autistic child in a closet. She’d figure out how to take the door off the hinges or something. Sheesh.
“the neurodiverse enjoy watching children suffer from food allergiesâ€
As a matter of fact, we’ve discovered a couple of food allergies that affect our daughter (I don’t know if they’re outright allergies or just poor toleration, but either way, these things aren’t good for her), and – wait for it – removed those things from her diet.
“the ND don’t want us to help our children learn to talkâ€
Well, there is this thing called “speech therapy”. My child has been receiving that since the age of three, and we’ve invested in a number of things that also help (a couple of computer programs that seem to encourage her to speak/understand, some video/DVD presentations aimed at language development, flash cards, etc.). I’d recommend those same things to any parent. It’s certainly helped our child learn to talk.
What other straw people can they make? Oh, yeah, how about “Okay, so your child has never been exposed to thimerisol in vaccines, it must be that you, the mother, has amalgam fillings in your mouth!” (Wouldn’t I have dropped dead of mercury poisoning by now if I had a mouthful of poison, though?)
Pfft. Zealots in a cult. Mercury is Satan, and anyone who doesn’t agree is aiding and abeting the Devil. That’s what it comes down to.
_”What a spot Jamie Handley has been put in. Whatever progress he does or does not happen to make…he’s a little boy, not a trophy.”_
Indeed. You have to feel for him. Whatever we argue about, its him this is going to affect most – whichever way it goes.
Wow! ND people live in trailers? Well, maybe some do, but most of them are professors and researchers at major universities. OK, so they don’t pay them enough, but a trailer? Actually, most of the bio-med parents I know are in a lower socio-economic bracket than the parents who don’t believe in this stuff. That maybe because they’re paying a lot for these kinds of services, but mostly I’ve found out they’re not college educated, or not college educated in the sciences.
Anyway, my kids weren’t exposed to mercury and I don’t have any cavities! I didn’t even eat fish during pregnancy or take any medicines.
Didn’t they take out thimerosal out of vaccines in the States in 2003 or 2002? It will be interesting to see statistics about the number of autistics who never were exposed to mercury in comparison with those who were.
I hope it will finally end this debate, though somehow I doubt that will happen. After all, other countries have stopped using thimerosal or reduced its usage and their results just became another part of the argument.
Actually, most of the bio-med parents I know are in a lower socio-economic bracket than the parents who don’t believe in this stuff. That maybe because they’re paying a lot for these kinds of services, but mostly I’ve found out they’re not college educated, or not college educated in the sciences.
I’d actually disagree with that statement somewhat. There is certainly a substantial percentage of the anti-thim group that falls into a lower socio-economic bracket. But most of the leading lights have college degrees, some of them advanced ones. Not always in science, mind you, but I certainly wouldn’t consider them uneducated by any means.
It actually makes their position all the more incredible, because you would think they’d know better.
Cognitive dissonance is an amazing thing.
JP: “Cognitive dissonance is an amazing thing.”
So it is, so it is.
JP, that’s just my experience in my small corner of the world. These people I’m talking about aren’t on the front lines of the debate, they’re just the foot soldiers in the movement. What happens is when their child is first diagnosed and the experts cannot give them any clear cut idea as to prognosis, they go to support groups and the first thing they are told is get your kids urine tested for this and that, there is a cure, etc.
Even educated lemmings follow the cliff notes
I never used ciff notes. Tha’t probably why I’m here.
“Didn’t they take out thimerosal out of vaccines in the States in 2003 or 2002? It will be interesting to see statistics about the number of autistics who never were exposed to mercury in comparison with those who were.”
If it were the same people doing the counting according to the same standards, that would be informative, but the IDEA statistics, which are the only national count that I know of, are not like that.
Somewhat on-topic, what do you make of this most recent treatise from JB Handley?
http://grlabels.blogspot.com/
Kevin:
As I said, you have posted my comments like a proud trophy.
I was getting ready to post a nasty response to the coo-coo brigade when I came across this post, your first, about your daughter Megan. I’m not really sure how to take it in so instead I’ll just say this:
My heart goes out to you. I know that you love your daughter as much as I love my son. And, I would be happy to talk anytime about the cause/effect of that first DPT jab.
Best,
JB Handley
Kevin wrote:
Megan was born on 17-02-00 weighing slightly more than usual. The first few months of her life were totally normal- we didn’t feel concerned about her health or well-being at all. That changed however when she had her DTP jab.
I know there’s been a lot about the jabs (particularly the combined MMR jab) in the news but we (or rather I, Naomi was a lot more dubious than me but I managed to convince her) decided to go ahead with it and on the night of her first lot of jabs Megan began projectile vomiting and developed a temperature that peaked at 102 degrees. We phoned for an Ambulance and took her to A and E where they brought her temperature down, then told us they couldn’t find much wrong with her. We were relieved but by the end of that week we knew something was wrong with Megs. She seemed subtely different. There was nothing you could put your finger on as such but the difference was there, she was late walking and was uncomfortable around others.
And, Kevin:
My first son, Sam, who is NT screamed for 2 hours a night, every night, for 6 months after DPT. My second baby, Jamison, developed eczema immediately after he received DPT and started leaning over chairs in intense gastrointestinal pain.
At the time, we were too naive to draw any cause and effect between the two events. Now, of course, we all know better.
When we took dairy out of Jamison’s diet two things happened within 24 hours:
– The eczema stopped
– He began to talk
3 weeks later, we added cod liver oil. Within 12 hours he began to look us in the eyes again.
6 weeks after that, we began to chelate Jamie with DMPS. Within a month of chelation, he was counting to ten, eating voraciously, not leaning over chairs, and, for the first time ever, sleeping through the night.
There is so much hope for our precious babies.
JB Handley
JB
And, Kevin, another remarkable post by you. I don’t understand why you are embraced by the NDs with quotes like this. I might use this on our website, it’s a heck of an endorsement.
JB Handley
Kevin writes:
Naomi (my better half who in an amusing but unrelated event took an online test to find out what sort of leader she was recently and came out as Hitler 😀 ) used to work at a Health Clinic as a receptionist. It was a bit ‘new agey’ this place and offered chiropracters, massage-therapists, hypno-therapists and homeopathists.
As is my wont I sneered at most of these treatments without actually trying them or even reading up about them. Yay me.
Anyway, when Megan was diagnosed with ASD, Naomi kept in touch with the homeopathist who she used to work with and this homeopathist, Karyl, began to treat Megan.
I was totally unprepared for how succesful it was. I mean I was really shocked at the difference. All I could see was Naomi giving Megan various combos of these little sugar pills but gradually, over time, Karyl got the balance right. It still needs tweaking as Megan grows but the Homeopathic regime Megan is on has cleared her body of a lot of the toxins introduced by the immunisations she had and-best of all- has helped her settle back down into a much more stable sleeping pattern. Megan has her Homeopathic stuff twice daily with Eye-Q and a multi-vitamin and the combination really has worked wonders on her patience, temper, perception, concentration, cognition and general happiness.
I’d strongly recommend Homeopathy as a treatment. If anyone wants to speak to our Homeopathist in particular, let me know by posting here and I’ll send her details to you- she really has changed our lives with Megan.
And, Kevin, I think you quit to early on the nutritional front, per the below.
Jb Handley
Kevin wrote:
Hm. OK, so its only been a few days but we’re already beginning to think we can rule the nutritional Autism thing out for Megan.
We’ll probably keep up the decrease in Dairy stuff but the rest of it doesn’t seem to be making much of an impact. Oh well- we’ll not abandon it just yet as it really has only been a few days but its not looking like a likely candidate.
Keep reading JB. You’ll get there eventually.
This is a blog. It means I document everything unvarnished and exactly as we felt it at the time. I could hide what I wrote but that wouldn’t be right. They’re honest reflections of exactly how we felt. You should feel free to use them exactly as you wish – just make sure you give the source.
As you well know, we’re far from the only family who began their journey believing one thing only to change their mind. The science states that most people who try chelation abandon it when it doesn’ work. Maybe you will too.
_”As I said, you have posted my comments like a proud trophy.”_
Proud? There’s nothing about your comments that would instill pride in anyone. It doesn’t surprise me in the least however that you see this debate in terms of point scoring and ‘pride’.
Oh and a few questions for you JB – do you share John Best Jr’s belief that those of us who don’t chelate are child abusers? Do you feel that those of us who believe its unecessary to cure autism are akin to terrorists? Do you believe, as John Best does, that its better to be dead than autistic?
Are you happy having your group represented by and associated with John Best Jr?
Damn JB, how many comments did you make? Just as a matter of netiquette – please try and keep them all in one comment and don’t copy and paste whole posts – quote the bits you want and reference them wth a link.
Anyway…
_”At the time, we were too naive to draw any cause and effect between the two events. Now, of course, we all know better.”_
Except you don’t – thats the mistake we made. And even if you’re right – gastro pain and skin conditions are not precursors of autism.
_”When we took dairy out of Jamison’s diet two things happened within 24 hours:”_
If you’d taken the trouble to read a few other posts as oppose to seeing what you want to see, you’ll see that I have no real issue with biomedical treatment as such. If you think adding a (safe) amount of vitamins helps then go right to it. If you think adding fish oil (which Megan continues to have) helps then go right to it. If you believe Homeopathy helps or an adjusted diet helps then as long as the diet is approved by a qualified nutritionist or Doctor go for it. None of these things have any sort of negative impact on health as long as they’re done right. Personally I’ve come to believe things like Homeopathy are useless but useless only takes your money. Chelation as we all know now can take your life.
You don’t get me JB because you don’t _listen_ . You’re so caught up in denigrating autism as mercury poisoning that you’ve lost sight of the fact that _there are shades of grey to this whole thing_ . You and John Best Jr and the rest of your cult are so caught up in finger pointing and lashing out at everyone who doesn’t subscribe to your beliefs to the letter and offering passive/aggressive threats of legal action that you’ve totally forgotten that autistics are people deserving of respect – your beliefs about mercury seeks to cut funding into valid research and spread misinformation and ignorance about autism as a state of being.
_”6 weeks after that, we began to chelate Jamie with DMPS. Within a month of chelation, he was counting to ten, eating voraciously, not leaning over chairs, and, for the first time ever, sleeping through the night.”_
Megan could count to thirty by the age of four. She has a mixed approach to food but is big and healthy (she wears clothes for a 10 year old at age nearly 6) and is making good progress on the speech front. She’s never been chelated and never will be unless she chooses that option as an adult.
Why don’t you just once give your son the credit for his progress rather than the medication?
Just deleted Paul Kings entry as it a) wasn’t his b) wasn’t cited and c) totally off topic.
Oh and a few questions for you JB – do you share John Best Jr’s belief that those of us who don’t chelate are child abusers?
JB : No
Do you feel that those of us who believe its unecessary to cure autism are akin to terrorists?
JB: No
Do you believe, as John Best does, that its better to be dead than autistic?
JB: No
Are you happy having your group represented by and associated with John Best Jr?
JB: Yes. John is helping dozens of families get their children back. He has our full support. I don’t agree with every choice of words of every American, but I’m damn proud to be one. You see, Generation Rescue’s focus is on the parents who are open to treating their children, not the ones who aren’t. John excels at helping parents. The reason we choose to engage with people like you is that you have actively chosen to post our comments on the web (talk about Netiquette!) and you are hassling our Rescue Angels in their homes and offices. If you new the details, you would understand that we have not made legal threats, but rather legal assurances. Why are we so threatening to the NDs? It scares them to death that we may be right, and they cloak that fear by hiding behind their children and say we are denegrating their kids.
Many NDs go on to infer that we don’t care about autistic children. This is preposterous. I certainly know that NDs care about autistic children, just as everyone associated with Generation Rescue does. The fact that we think autism is something worth recovering from and leaving behind is where we are different. And, we believe our chidren have clear and obvious medical issues that any parent could test for. I suspect many NDs have not run those test out of fear we may be right. If they have, I have never heard it.
Kevin, for all your rants, you have never chosen to answer some simple questions:
– Did you test your daughter for mercury posioning?
– What tests?
– What were the results?
– What do you think the relationship between your daughter’s reaction to the DPT shot and autism is?
Funny that you are bothered by us having a blog, are we treading on your territory?
And, Kevin, this is a ridiculous comment:
“your beliefs about mercury seeks to cut funding into valid research and spread misinformation and ignorance about autism as a state of being.”
Cut funding into valid research? Shit, the only funding we have today is coming from parents. Your current views align you perfectly with the mainstream view, you don’t need to worry about funding. Just when I start to think you are sensible, you mention “autism as a state of being” and I remember that you are also coo-coo.
JB
Hi Kevin,
Have you read the following studies?
If mercury from shots prior to you daughter’s DPT shot engaged her immune system….
Burbacher, Charleston and Herbert are the most interesting.
Kevin
Ashwood P, et al 2003. Intestinal Lymphocyte Populations in Children with Regressive Autism: Evidence for extensive Mucosal Immunopathology. Journal of Clinical Immunology, 23(6):504-517
Ashwood P, et al 2004. Spontaneous Mucosal Lymphocyte Cytokine Profiles in Children with Autism and Gastrointestinal Symptoms: Mucosal Immune Activation and Reduced Counter Regulatory Interleukin-10. Journal of Clinical Immunology, 24(6):664-673
Baskin DS, et al 2003. Thimerosal induces DNA breaks, caspase-3 activation, membrane damage, and cell death in cultured human neurons and fibroblasts. Tox. Sci., 74(2):361-8
Burbacher, T, et al 2005. Comparison of blood and brain mercury levels in infant monkeys exposed to methylmercury or vaccines containing thimerosal. Environmental Health Perspect., 113(8):1015-1021
Charleston J, et al 1994. Increase in the number of reactive glia in the visual cortex of Macaca fascicularis following subclinical long-term methylmercury exposure. Toxicol Appl Pharmacology, 129(2):196-206
Charleston J, et al 1996. Changes in the number of astrocytes and microglia in the thalamus of the monkey Macaca fascicularis following long-term subclinical methylmercury exposure. Neurotoxicology, 17(10:127-138
Furlano, et al 2001. Colonic CD8 and T-cell infiltration with epithelial damage in children with autism. The Journal of Pediatrics, 138(3):366-372
Herbert M, et al 2004. Localization of white matter volume increase in autism and developmental language disorder. Annals of Neurology, 55(4):530-540
Herbert M., et al 2005. Brain asymmetries in autism and developmental language disorder: a nested whole-brain analysis. Brain, 128(1):213-26
Holmes A, Blaxill M, Haley B 2003. Reduced Levels of Mercury in First Baby Haircuts of Autistic Children. International Journal of Toxicology, 22(4):277-285
James SJ, et al 2004. Metabolic biomarkers of increased oxidative stress and methylation capacity in children with autism. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 80(6):1611-1617
James SJ, et al 2005. Thimerosal Neurotoxicity is Associated with Glutathione Depletion: Protection with Glutathione Precursors. Neurotoxicology, 26(1):1-8
Jyonouchi H, et al 2005. Dysregulated Innate Immune Responses in Young Children with Autism Spectrum Disorders: Their Relationship to Gastrointestinal Symptoms and Dietary Intervention. Neuropsychobiology, 51:77-85
Jyonouchi H, et al 2005. Evaluation of an association between gastrointestinal symptoms and cytokine production against common dietary proteins in children with autism spectrum disorders. Journal of Pediatrics, 146:605-610
Lavoie JC, Chessex P 1997. Gender and maturation affect glutathione statues in human neonatal tissues. Free Radical Biology and Medicine, 23(4):648-57
Makani S. 2002, Biochemical and molecular basis of thimerosal-included apoptosis in T cells: a major role of mitochondrial pathway. Genes and Immunity, 3(5):270-278
Martensson J. 1990. Glutathione is required for intestinal function. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci., 87(5):1715-19
Pichichero M, et al 2002. Mercury concentrations and metobolism in infants receiving vaccines containing thiomersal: adescriptive study. Lancet, 360(9347):1737-41
Stajich GV, et al 2000. Iatrogenic exposure to mercury after hepatitis B vaccination in preterm infants. J Pediatrics, 136(5):679-81
Torrente F, et al 2002. Small intestinal enteropathy with epithelial IgG and complement deposition in children with regressive autism. Molecular Psychiatry,
7:375-382
Ueha-Ishibashi T, et al 2004. Activation of methionine synthase by insulin-like growth factor-1 and dopamine: a target for neurodevelopmental toxins and thimerosal, 195(1):77—84
Vargas D, et al 2005. Neuroglial Acitvation and Neuroinflammation in the Brain of Patients with Autism. Ann Neruology, 57-000-000
Vojdani A, et al 2004. Immune Response to Dietary Proteins, Gliadin and Cerebellar Peptides in Children with Autism. Nutritional Neuroscience, 7(3):151-161
Wakefield AJ, et al 2000. Enterocolitis in Children with Developmental Disorders. American Journal of Gastroenterology, 95(9):2285-2295
Wakefield AJ, et al 2005. The significance of ileo-colonic lymphoid nodular hyperplasia in children with autistic spectrum disorder. European Journal of Gastroenterology and Hepatology, 17:000-000
Waly M, et al 2004. Effect of thimerosal, a preservative in vaccines, on intracellular Ca(2+) concentration of rat cerebellar neurons. Toxicology, 9(4):358-70
Wu MM, et al 2001. Association of blood arsenic levels with increased reactive oxidants and decreased antioxidant capacity in a human population of northeastern Taiwan. Environment Health Perspect., 109(10):1011-7
I’d love to be there in the next life when you have to face your child and explain why you refused to help her, Kevin. Any sane person reading your blog would be happy to testify against you at a sanity hearing. Seek help now!!!
JBJr: “I’d love to be there in the next life when you have to face your child and explain why you refused to help her, Kevin.”
How does it feel to be such a fucking idiot? Even the main mercury parents’ boards think you’re a cunt! I have this from a person whose kid was a non-autistic vaccine injured kid.
Recovered from mercury poisoning, but not from autism, since she wasn’t autistic….
Interesting, I think.
You mightn’t, but who gives a fuck what you think?
No me. As you found out somewhere where you had to duck out of, since you had fuck all power there 🙂
Nice….:D
Kev –
A quick look through the archives of your blog brings you to this. In August of 2004, you wrote:
“I’m sure that I’m not the only parent of an autistic child that just doesn’t know what to think anymore. We believe that the 3 in 1 jab Megan had triggered her autism and we also believe that there was mercury used as a suspension fluid in her DTP jab.
So why exactly is the Thimerasol (the mercury preservative used in the jabs) so bad in the whooping cough vaccine that it warrants removal of the vaccine and yet the Thimerasol in the DTP (and plenty of other) vaccines is not considered an autism causative?
Maybe I’m missing something here but the evidence for me is mounting that the Gvmt in this country need to urgently investigate mercury based vaccines of all kinds”.
— What a difference a year makes…
– Sue
He is helping her. She gets the home and the educational situation that is best suited to her needs.
Refusing to get sucked into half-baked theories pushed by medical wannabees is the last thing any parent should do. So far no real evidence has been presented that chelation has any real merit (oral, IV or even cream… in fact there is not evidence that the cream even does anything). The evidence has to be presented in a public journal with replication elsewhere (not in testimonials, declarations in front of gullible congressmen, nor “just because you say so”).
Also, most of those papers in the “baffle with bovine excrement” have nothing to do with the subject at hand…Especially since one has been shown to be bought and paid for by a lawyer, http://briandeer.com/mmr/lancet-summary.htm and at least one has been thoroughly raked over the coals here:
http://photoninthedarkness.blogspot.com/2005/07/perfect-example-of-how-not-to-do-study.html
_So why exactly is the Thimerasol (the mercury preservative used in the jabs) so bad in the whooping cough vaccine that it warrants removal of the vaccine and yet the Thimerasol in the DTP (and plenty of other) vaccines is not considered an autism causative?_
The DTP is no longer used. It was replaced by the DTaP several years ago (see page 80 of http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/pert.pdf ). All the pediatric vaccines are now made without thimerosal:
http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm
If you have evidence that somewhere there is still a “DTP” with thimerosal… please present it. Because this is the second time I’ve told that it has been replaced, and why.
Even still… thimerosal is not the cause of autism:
Click to access 793.pdf
Let’s take a trip to an alternate dimension for a second:
“Okay, I admit I was out of line with the abuse comment, though I am still adamant that chelation is important and helpful. I can understand why some might fear this procedure, and I’ll try to rationally explain to them why there is nothing to be afraid of.”
Best, you would have sounded much better if you had said that, instead of just attacking Kevin as a horrible, insane parent. From readings his posts I can see he’s an excellent, very sane parent and a reasonable person. He says he may be proven wrong sometime in the future. Knowing you don’t know everything is quite a proof of sanity and intelligence.
You, on the other hand, think you know everything. There is no way in hell that you are wrong. Only chelation is the answer. No alternatives. Black and white – no grey. Good parents who chelate and abusers who don’t. In your mind, no good parents can ever be weary of your unproven, potentially harmful method. That shows you aren’t too sane yourself (not insane, but you have issues…). Either that or you’re just not too intelligent or just damn stubborn.
Other therapies work too. Maybe yours does too, though so far I’m far from convinced – it seems too dangerous to me. And just in case you are wrong, if you’ll allow me to paraphrase you – I’d love to be there in the next life when you have to face your child and explain why you poisoned him with chelating chemicals because you mistakenly thought he had Mercury poisoning, John.
My nephew was never chelated or tested for metals. His treatment was a loving family centered around him and ABA. Now he is what you would call “close to a full recovery”. So, is my sister an abuser despite doing such a fine job with him?
Kevin:
Just my own opinion, but all these contradictory posts are starting to make you look like a bit of a wanker. One thing for sure: you’re no ND, so I’m going to put my gloves back on and save them for the real NDs who are hassling our Angels.
On that topic, I’d really love to hear from an ND who has done thorough and complete testing for mercury poisoning on their child. I’d also love to hear from one who has a recovered child. As an example, Camille Clark of Davis, CA (aka “Autism Diva”) purportedly has a severe, 22 year old daughter still in diapers. If acceptance is keeping her from going insane, I’m sympathetic. But, I’d rather she kept her shit to herself or at least out of our business. Camille, if that’s wrong, I’m sure you’ll let us know. We’re going to start potty-training Jamie this month. We think he’s ready, he’s been detoxifying for a year now. He just turned three. Also, Camille, I have no business interest in anything to do with autism, so please fuck yourself for writing that I do.
Kevin, you had it right a year ago. But, I think you’ve made an error many parents make: you gave up too early. Detox takes a 2 year minimum. Also, you are hampered by where you live. The UK is WAY BEHIND in terms of the number of doctors and the number of recovered kids. We have more than 400 docs, you have less than 5.
So, because I really feel for you, especially after hearing about the DPT and Megan, here’s an offer:
I’ll use my influence to get you into see a great DAN! doctor in the US (they all have long waiting lists – our numbers are multiplying like rabbits), pay for your airfare, and pay for treatment for Megan, which may or may not include chelation, depending on what the doctor recommends. You have my word, for the world to see, that I’ll make good on that offer, as I have for many other kids.
Also, I’d appreciate if you’d stop sensationalizing Tariq’s death. The word on the street is that a lab tech gave him the wrong substance in the IV. This would be a real disappointment to your side, I’m sure. Either way, sensationalizing this is analogous to a child dying from drinking an entire bottle of Tylenol and someone screaming, “see, Tylenol is dangerous!” IV chelation is not recommended by DAN!, has never been recommended by our website, and is used in an extreme minority of kids. That doesn’t mean it isn’t safe, it just means you tend to forget those details when trying to sensationalize a tragic death.
I’m done picking on you. You got it a year ago, got overwhelmed, and fell back on acceptance as a way to cope. This isn’t easy for any of us.
JB Handley
(aka, “Cobra in a velvet jacket” – I really like that)
HN-
I think that you may have misunderstood my post. I was quoting from Kevin’s blog in August of 2004. I can understand how you may have been confused by this considering the fact that he has done a complete about face since then. I’m curious as to the studies done since 2004 that have changed his mind?
I know that the DTP is no longer used. I can’t speak for Kevin (he probably just shortened it in his post). I am also well aware of the status of thimerosal containing vaccines. This is the main reason why I get sick to my stomach when I see babies and young children (anyone for that matter) who are being dragged into their ped’s office for that very important flu vaccination.
I am very thankful for the change from the DTP to the DTaP. It seems poor babies were dying and becoming neurologically damaged by the DTP. That change may have saved some lives. Who do you think was one of the people responsible for the research to make that change happen. That would be Dr. Geier. Yes, Dr. Geier, the same person who is saying that thimerosal can be a trigger for genetically susceptible people to become autistic. See here:
” Dr. Geier played an instrumental role in persuading government officials to switch from the whole-cell Diphtheria-Tetanus-Pertussis vaccine (DTP) to the safer version (DTaP). He wrote the article, “The True Story of Pertussis Vaccination: A Sordid Legacy?” which won the first annual Stanley W. Jackson award in 2002 for the best paper published in the Journal of the History of Medicine and Allied Sciences”.
So, was he right on the DTP/DTaP problem but completely wrong on the thimerosal/autism story? I doubt it.
Thanks for the link to the article about thimerosal not being the cause of autism. I printed it out so that I could wash my windows with it sometime this weekend.
-Sue
John Best I’d love to be there in the next life when you have to face your child and explain why you refused to help her, Kevin. Any sane person reading your blog would be happy to testify against you at a sanity hearing. Seek help now
Ole John is keeping it real. A true representative of generationrescue.com
When you have no insight, insult someone and their child!
Kevin,
Should you take JB up on his offer. I will have you bypass Jim’s waitlist of 2 years for an immediate date.
Rick Neubrander
I am afraid that it you who are confused. The Geier’s had NOTHING to do with the switch from DTP to DTaP. Citing a paper he wrote does not change that fact.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00041836.htm … “General recommendations on pertussis prevention were issued August 8, 1991, in the ACIP statement on diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (1). A supplementary statement on the use of diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis vaccine (DTaP) was issued February 7, 1992 (2) after the licensure of ACEL-IMUNE (Registered), prepared by Lederle Laboratories”..
Plus:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7659483&query_hl=1
and
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8941493&query_hl=1
and
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00046167.htm
and
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00048610.htm which is titled “Pertussis Vaccination: Use of Acellular Pertussis Vaccines Among Infants and Young Children Recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) ” and dated 1997.
NONE of these reports or recommendations contain any reference to any Geier type person. If you have evidence that the Geier’s were in the trenches working on the change before 1992, please present it. Because the earliest I have from them is this letter of comment from 2000:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11138356&query_hl=10
Also, they tend to distort data to their own means (so taking credit for a change of vaccine schedule seems to be in character). Anyway, some information on how they “work”:
Click to access CISPframe.html
and
http://www.aap.org/profed/thimaut-may03.htm
and
http://www.casewatch.org/civil/geier.shtml
Wow – no wonder my cheeks were burning tonight!
I’ll attempt to answer all the points except John Best Jr as he’s a total fruit loop.
_”John is helping dozens of families get their children back. He has our full support. I don’t agree with every choice of words of every American, but I’m damn proud to be one.”_
This isn’t a national issue JB. John Best Jr represents your organisation. If you’re happy with that then so be it.
_”The reason we choose to engage with people like you is that you have actively chosen to post our comments on the web (talk about Netiquette!) and you are hassling our Rescue Angels in their homes and offices.”_
I am? Who am I hassling at their home and/or office exactly? If we want to talk legal threats then back them up – stop posturing like a sulky teenager and sue someone. Or, shut up.
_You_ posted your comments on the web JB. I merely repeated them and asked questions about them. As my new friend Sue M says, you can’t expect people to agre with you all the time – except for Generation Rescue, if you don’t then your a child abuser. Thats what your rep says.
_”Why are we so threatening to the NDs? It scares them to death that we may be right,”_
No JB, it scares us to death that more parents will listen to your one dimensional nonsense. You’re the Microsoft of autism JB – big on marketing but shit detail. What exactly would I be scared of if you were right?
_”and they cloak that fear by hiding behind their children and say we are denegrating their kids.”_
I have no idea what you’re talking about. Give me an example.
_” – Did you test your daughter for mercury posioning? – What tests? – What were the results? – What do you think the relationship between your daughter’s reaction to the DPT shot and autism is?”_
As I’ve said to you before JB and as a keen reader of my blog you should know I won’t discuss these things publicly anymore. You feel happy to discuss your kids then so be it. I however have come to the conclusion that after receiving insults about _my daughter herself_ from people who support you that thats a discussion I’m unwilling to have publicly. How you feel about that is a matter of supreme indefference to me.
_”Funny that you are bothered by us having a blog, are we treading on your territory?”_
Erm, I don’t believe I’ve mentioned it at all. Should I call you a name now?
_”Cut funding into valid research? Shit, the only funding we have today is coming from parents. Your current views align you perfectly with the mainstream view, you don’t need to worry about funding.”_
If only that were true. Money into valid research accts for about 8% of the whole pie. I’ll dig out a link for you to read – or search on here. I’ve mentioned it somewhere.
_”Just when I start to think you are sensible, you mention “autism as a state of being†and I remember that you are also coo-coo.”_
[sigh]…I have no idea what coo-coo means JB. Please try to at least impersonate a grown up.
Autism _is_ a state of being JB. Whether its caused by genetics or mercury. Your belief that its also an illness doesn’t detract from that state.
Sue said:
_”What a difference a year makes…”_
Indeed it does Sue. Thanks very much for that astute and relevant comment. Please come back when you have a point.
Back to JB:
_”Just my own opinion, but all these contradictory posts are starting to make you look like a bit of a wanker.”_
Better to look than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt JB.
I suppose they could be seen as contradictory, yes, if you’re looking for something, anything to sidetrack a debate. To me, as they’re my life with my family they represent a path of progression. Once upon a time I was firmly of the opinion that the triple jab injured our daughter – now I’m not. I don’t blog every single thing that happens in her life – medical issues I took a decision not to discuss quite some time ago and recently elaborated on that by not discussing her directly at all.
As I’ve always said: its not for me to tell people what they can and can’t do. I have issues with your ridiclous stance that autism is solely mercury poisoning and I have issues with chelation as a cure. I have wider issues about the nature of a persons right to be which I freely admit are still nebulous. I leave the closed minedness and the inability to listen to you and John Best Jr.
_”One thing for sure: you’re no ND, so I’m going to put my gloves back on and save them for the real NDs who are hassling our Angels.”_
I have contact with several of your Angels. They’re all very nice people. I don’t believe for a moment that any of your Angels are being harrassed in their homes or work places. By contrast I know of several people who oppose your view who have had their contact details posted on the EoH list as well as other places. Several of the EoH goons have phoned people at home. I understand one of the list members who also happens to be a RG Angel made a threat of property damage against Dr Offit (could be wrong on that I don’t know for sure).
You’re welcome to come or go JB. You’ve already ran away from a debate with me several times – this will be no different. I can honestly say that being on the recieving end of your ‘gloves’ is like being savaged by a dead sheep. Here’s a suggestion – fight with your brain. Stop the bravado and sulky posturing and offer a cogent debate.
_”So, because I really feel for you, especially after hearing about the DPT and Megan, here’s an offer:”_
Thanks but no thanks JB. Just because I don’t discuss these things publicly doesn’t mean they haven’t happened.
_”Also, I’d appreciate if you’d stop sensationalizing Tariq’s death. The word on the street is that a lab tech gave him the wrong substance in the IV. This would be a real disappointment to your side, I’m sure.”_
The word on the street? How convincing.
Whats disappointing to me is that it happened at all. As far as sensationalising his death JB, tell me: who was it discussing it in several online newspapers? Was that you? I think it was.
_”Either way, sensationalizing this is analogous to a child dying from drinking an entire bottle of Tylenol and someone screaming, “see, Tylenol is dangerous!†IV chelation is not recommended by DAN!, has never been recommended by our website, and is used in an extreme minority of kids. That doesn’t mean it isn’t safe, it just means you tend to forget those details when trying to sensationalize a tragic death.”_
Well, thats your opinion. I’m guessing Tariq might see it a little differently.
_”I’m done picking on you. You got it a year ago, got overwhelmed, and fell back on acceptance as a way to cope.”_
Again, your opinion to which you’re entitled. Bollocks, but still, you’re entitled to it. Come back whenever you like. Maybe next time you could dispense with the immature name-calling and just try and make a few points?
Parents asking for scientific evidence on the value of chelation (or any other medical treatment) prior to putting their child through it cannot be faulted for being cautious.
And the parents who are willing to follow the DAN protocol based on parent testimonials and their own research certainly cannot be criticized for trying to help their children through mostly harmless (with the exception of intraveneous chelation) therapies.
Isn’t there a chelation and MB12 study underway or about to start? Hopefully that will provide some answers.
My personal opinion (which admittedly means nothing) is that vaccines have contributed to the autism epidemic. I don’t think mercury is the only problem (I noticed reactions to the MMR) and I obviously don’t think vaccines are the only source of mercury. The other big change in the vaccine program was giving them to children at a younger age. Vaccinating children at birth could be as much of a culprit as the mercury.
I think more biological research is needed and I’m disappointed to see that there is such a small amount of this type of research. One doesn’t have to believe in a gov’t coverup to see that of the millions (billions?) of dollars that the govt is investing in research hardly any (if any) is being directed towards biological studies and scientists like Mady Hornig, Jill James, Burbacher and others.