I came across an interesting post on EoH today. Its interesting for lots of reasons, notably its misrepresentation. A few of the responses (from Erik and Wade notably) referred to me so I thought I should at least grace them (and the op) with a reply.
_QUICK QUIZ:_
_Which physical symptoms should be ignored in children with mercury- induced autism, so that their parents can “celebrate their neurodiversity”?_
_1. Chronic burning diarrhea_
_2. Constipation with grapefruit-sized blockage_
_3. Intestinal diverticuli_
_4. Seizures (petit mal, grand mal, tonic, clonic)_
_5. 75% under normal body weight_
_6. Lesions lining intestinal mucosa_
_7. Esophineal esophagitis_
_8. Food texture sensivitiy and swallowing difficulty_
_9. Asthma and reactive airway disorder_
_10. Allergies to foods, fabrics, toys_
_11. Immune dysfunction_
_12. Chronic sinus infections_
_13. Chronic upper respiratory infections_
_14. Cycling viruses_
_15. PANDAS (strep)_
_16. Vitamin and mineral deficiencies_
_17. Yeast overgrowth_
_18. Kryptopyrrole overload_
_19. Phenol sensitivity_
_20. Liver and kidney stress_
_21. Precocious puberty_
_22. Thyroid malfunction_
_23. Brain lesions with demyelination_
_If I missing anything, please find more from the Autism Research Institute, Thoughtful House, Autism Treatment Network, HRI+Pfeiffer Treatment Center, or the hundreds of doctors treating these children’s physical disorders._
_Inevitably some people reading the above list will still deny the existence of our children’s physical pain despite medical tests and observational data from tens of thousands more. As the adage goes, there are none so blind as those who will not see… when their personal filter of communication becomes a cataract._
_Perhaps at no other time in history has it been so common that when truth is not expedient, people create convenient fictions. Rather than actually witness or try to help, it’s quicker to indulge inlurid oppositional imaginings from the comfort of one’s home. This denial perpetuates the suffering of children, and that is morally indefensible._
_Nancy Hokkanen_
_Minneapolis_
OK, so first lets answers Nancy’s question _”Which physical symptoms should be ignored in children with mercury- induced autism, so that their parents can “celebrate their neurodiversity”?”_
The answer to that would of course be ‘none’. Where on Earth did anyone get the idea that ignoring things like chronic diarrhea or Asthma is part of neurodiversity? My own daughter is Asmathic, as is my son, I can assure you I don’t ignore their asthma. Such a belief indicates either a lack of reading or comprehension ability – or more likely, a propensity to not have actually ever read up about the subject one’s discussing. From the Neurodiversity Wikipedia entry:
Most supporters of neurodiversity are anti-cure autistics, who are engaged in advocacy. In addition, some parents of autistic children also support neurodiversity and the view that autism is a unique way of being, rather than a disease to be cured. Such parents say they value their children’s individuality and want to allow their children to develop naturally. According to proponents, autistics may need therapies only to cure comorbid conditions, or to develop useful skills.
And thus we come around once again to the issue of comorbidities. In a response to the above post, Erik said:
As one of our favorite folks in the “ND” crowd likes to say… all those things are just “co-morbidities.”….Please…
And Wade said:
As I have asked our friend about his use of that term, if comorbidities are the cause of the dysfunctions by which our children are being diagnosed, can we really call them comorbidities?
So yet again – misrepresentation.I have never claimed *all* those things are comorbidities. Its quite clear that some of those listed have no relationship to autism at all and (for example, precocious puberty) are only in there to justify the use of quacky therapies.
However, its easy to tell if a person is autistic because they’ll have met the diagnostic criteria for autism – if they meet the diagnostic criteria for having Asthma then guess what – they’re asthmatic! If they meet the diagnosis for precocious puberty then guess what? Thats what they have!
What about Wade’s point that these comorbidities are causing the problems leading to diagnosis? Well there are several issues with that. If someone is getting a diagnosis of autism if they exhibit some or all of the above list then the diagnosing Doctor is clearly off his or her trolley. If the Doctor is saying – ‘your child is on the spectrum and they also have several comorbidities’ then thats something else entirely. What Wade is essentially postulating is another, seperate form of autism that Nancy calls ‘mercury induced autism’. Of course, this is just circular reasoning – these symptoms are attributable to mercury, my child is on the spectrum therefore mercury caused my child to be on the spectrum.
If we want to ascribe a whole new type of autism to these kids then we have to do the science. The first step is ‘can mercury cause autism’? Without that step, the whole thing comes crashing down. And so far, there is no evidence it does. the symptoms of traditional mercury poisoning and its variants such as Pinks Disease bear no relation to the symptoms of autism – *and neither do they bear much relation to the list Nancy made* that I quoted above.
So on what basis, other than a belief that it did amongst a minority of parents, can we accept the possibility that mercury causes autism? Thats not to say it definitely doesn’t of course but its certainly not looking good at all as a theory.
Then, sadly, Nancy ruins the fun and gets all moralistic:
Perhaps at no other time in history has it been so common that when truth is not expedient, people create convenient fictions. Rather than actually witness or try to help, it’s quicker to indulge in lurid oppositional imaginings from the comfort of one’s home. This denial perpetuates the suffering of children, and that is morally indefensible.
Well, I certainly have no problem with that first sentence – I think the targets Nancy and I have are oppositional however. And where exactly is anyone denying the suffering of children? This accusation gets leveled time and time again and I’ve yet to see anyone who postulates it actually back it up. If your child is Asthmatic, like two of mine, I know exactly how nasty and scary it can be. All I’m saying is that saying asthma _is_ autism – that the former can be used to diagnose the latter is wrong.
So to recap – if your child has a diagnosis for all of the above (and I mean a diagnosis from an actual Doctor, not a quack who’ll wheel out a diagnosis because they’re ‘excited’ about trying their brand new pet theory out) then go right ahead and treat them – to do otherwise would be insane. However, don’t make the mistake of thinking that a diagnosis of these things is equitable to a diagnosis of autism.
Left Brain Right Brain 
Is JBJr really not in a state mental hospital?
*quote*
As Dave matures, he’ll realize that people don’t generally see a BA as something to brag about. He also thinks it’s safe to knock people who have been banned from a blog but didn’t realize that I might be trying to learn this new writing technique.
*endquote*
He’s got serious ideas of omniscience now. Seriously psychotic, that is.
His kid is obviously in danger and I’m thinking to report him to DCFS/DFCS, whatever the fuck it’s called there. Here in Finland, we call it Lastensuojelu: Child Protection.
Just been reading more of JBJr’s insane diatribes on the net.
*speechless*
QUICK QUIZ:
Which mental symptoms should be ignored in parents with mercury- induced hysteria, so that their children can understand feeling unwanted?
1. Chronic burning rage
2. Mental Constipation with grapefruit-sized brains
3. Emotional diverticulitis
4. Bigotry
5. Displaying 75% under normal IQ
6. Fixation on Male Genitalia
7. Napoleon Complex
8. Scientific illiteracy and difficulty swallowing data
9. Myopia and reactive personality disorder
10. Allergic to logic, ethics, human rights
11. Critical thought dysfunction
12. Chronic foul language
13. Mob Mentality
14. Cycling Viciousness
15. Trolling (blogs)
16. Compassion and empathy deficiencies
17. Conspiracy overgrowth
18. Propaganda overload
19. Paranoia
20. Denial of their own autistic traits
21. Precocious Quackery
22. Parenting malfunction
23. Inflicting torture, pain, and sometimes death on children.
If I missing anything, please find more from the Autism Mercury list, Evidence of Harm, Generation Rescue, DAN!, or the hundreds of quacks contributing to these parent’s mental disorders.
Inevitably some people reading the above list will still deny the existence of these parents’ mental disorders despite considerable evidence and observational data from tens of thousands more. As the adage goes, there are none so blind as those who will not see… when their personal filter of communication becomes a cataract.
Perhaps at no other time in history has it been so common that when truth is not expedient, people create convenient fictions. Rather than actually witness or try to help, it’s quicker to indulge inlurid oppositional imaginings from the comfort of one’s home. This denial perpetuates the suffering of children, and that is morally indefensible.
Ms. Hokeymom,
I’d say it was more like a Joan of Arc complex than a Napolean complex.
Let’s see they also do lots of projecting, like Ms. Hokkanen projected her own narrow mindedness onto the “neruodiverse.” They are quite adept at doublethink and doublespeak.
Great so now this blog is turning into an anonymous bitch fest. Fun, great… Did I really just have to read about Jannalou’s diarrhea and menstrual problems?
Oh boy…
Cowards …. said, “Great so now this blog is turning into an anonymous bitch fest. Fun, great… Did I really just have to read about Jannalou’s diarrhea and menstrual problems?”
No, actually you DIDN’T “have to read”. She had a very prominent warning about what her post entailed so anyone could blip by it if they didn’t want to read such.
The whole post/ thread is about such kinds of medical issues. If these things are too icky for you, then don’t read it!
andrea
I always put warnings up about stuff like that. I’m well aware that not everyone has the same “gross factor” tolerance level I have. (Gotta have a strong stomach to deal with poopy diapers when you’re babysitting – young’uns are cute, but EEWWW!)
If you don’t like reading about issues like that, maybe you should reconsider your participation in this particular post’s comments.
I read the warning and knew what to expect which is more than I can say for the graphic detail parents will share as they describe bodily functions.
I’m still trying to picture any human passing a grapefruit sized obstruction. If that’s part of autism I’m sure it would be mentioned in the literature at least once.
cowards said: “Did I really just have to read about Jannalou’s diarrhea and menstrual problems?”
Actually, I heeded the warning and did not read it. I had no idea what it was about until you mentioned it.
Another thing I have no idea about: I skipped over to JBjr’s blog, and noticed he does lots of deleting. Not just a bunch of comments, but an entire commentary. What is he deleting?
I know of some people who post on places where Stalin’s airbrush is commonly used. What they do is save the pages, and sometimes post them on their own servers.
Anyway, back on topic: My son’s seizures, croup, speech issues and genetic heart condition have been treated. He is not autistic, but he does have severe speech issues and learning disabilities. They may or may not be associated with his history of seizures. The last seizure occured because he was dehydrated from diarrhea during an illness… one that may have PREVENTED with the new rotavirus vaccine.
*Best* not to comment on a certain trollish person these days. It goes straight to his blog and out of context.
If “cowards” is so brave why doesn’t she/he use his/her real name?
Never mind.
HN, JBJr is deleting lots of stuff about what he wrote to jypsy off-list a few months back when he was causing trouble on the Aut-Advo group . He said something like homosexuality could be cured if the homosexuals just got themselves some self-esteem. When cornered/challenged/questioned/mocked for this statement he tried to deny every having sent that to jypsy (she keeps everything email-wise and can prove it) he started digging himself in deeper admitting to more anti-homosexual sentiments and he got teased/taunted/shamed for that. There was a link to a photo of the inside of a bathroom which had a little sign board in front of a stall. The sign said, “for a good time, call David Kirby”. There were song lyrics apparently. I didn’t see those before they were deleted.
As far as I know many of the questions were not answered, and many were there merely to bug John Best Jr. (fore sam) for his being such a bully and ignoring the facts about autism and mercury.
All the deleting is pretty funny coming from a guy who had a huge snit fit over Kevin’s deleting a few of Best’s trolling posts.
The comments might be saved in a google cache somewhere if I understand that right, then people can read the whole thing, if they want. It’s not for the easily upset stomach, though.
—
Nancy Hokeymom… your post is hysterical.
Thanks for the update… I check in once or twice a day, so it was easy to get lost.
So, Kev, your response to the article that I posted is as follows:
1) The newspaper sucks.
2) The reporter was lazy.
3) It’s the mother’s fault for not following up more intently with a group who overseas the very doctors who are ignoring her concerns. (Yeah, that will do a lot).
– Good commentary, Kev. Now, how about addressing the medical SYSTEM which allows this to happen over and over and over again… to countless children, not just Laurence (obviously).
By the way, I was “cowards” above. I was doing an experiment. I wanted to see what kind of response that I would get to the article which I posted in regards to the sick little boy vs. the response that I would get in regards to the comment on Jannalou’s “issues”. Of course, you guys came through just as I expected… Very little care in the world for the little boy but many comments on Jannalou’s problems… ahhhh, priorities…
– Sue M.
Well you’re right that the newspaper sucks. You’re also right that the reporter only did half a job but I don’t agree that mistreatment (if it happened) was the mothers fault. In fact I said quite categorically:
_”Be that as it may, if young Laurence has gastro issues and if no mainstream medic over here treated him for those issues then its criminal negligence and his mother should take it up with the GMC.”_
Sorry if that removes your need for a good old rant.
_”Now, how about addressing the medical SYSTEM which allows this to happen over and over and over again… to countless children, not just Laurence”_
It does? Where? I’ve no doubt that some people recieve poor treatment for their autistic kids (we’ve been on the recieving end of it ourselves) but its nothing to do with a system – just random ineptitude.
I’m really not sure what you want me to address here Sue. Sorry. I completely agree with you that if Laurence has been mistreated or ignored then the Doctors concerned should be hauled over the coals.
Sue,
To add on to Kev’s point…you’re working from the premise that all autistic children in the UK with gastrointestinal issues are not getting appropriate treatment. However, you have little evidence (other than the anecdote in the article you posted) to back that up.
You’ve made it quite clear that you believe that there’s a vaccine/autism connection, that there’s a coverup, that there is widespread malfeasance and negligence on this issue. What you’ve failed to provide is a meaningful set of facts to back that up.
Mouse wrote:
“To add on to Kev’s point…you’re working from the premise that all autistic children in the UK with gastrointestinal issues are not getting appropriate treatment”.
– Where did I say ALL? I’m sure that there are some doctors over there who are actually listening to their patients/parents. They may just be somewhat quiet about it due to the ton of bricks that would fall on their heads if they speak up.
– Sue M.
(Shoot, I bet a percentage of autistics are nearsighted, just as is the general population, but no one is calling nearsightedness a “symptom†of autism.)
Just to nitpick, gifted children tend to have a comorbidity of nearsightedness, and many of the comorbidities of gifted children are similar to those of autistic children, so based on that I’d say nearsightedness is a common comorbidity of autism. (I’m quite nearsighted BTW.)
I think it’s possible autistic children have intestinal issues because of modern human diet. Too many carbs. I’ve been intrigued by the Neanderthal Theory of Autism since I noticed I have a bit of a brow ridge. Neanderthals should be eating 90% meat. Hence, it’s not surprising for a GFCF diet to be helpful, or a Ketogenic diet or an Atkins diet for that matter. It would also not be surprising for L-carnosine to be helpful.
stepping in quite late to set the record straight…
It was said above:
HN, JBJr is deleting lots of stuff about what he wrote to jypsy off-list a few months back when he was causing trouble on the Aut-Advo group . He said something like homosexuality could be cured if the homosexuals just got themselves some self-esteem.
In fact, JB Jr wrote to me almost 2 years ago after a comment I made on a list – not Aut-Advo. There was no exchange happening on the list itself between he and I at the time. He was just offering me his helpful advice that “There ARE cures for autism”, “Chelation DOES cure some people” and “There is also a cure for being gay.
That cure is called self-respect.”
Hi Jypsy…
What JBJr said… “Chelation DOES cure some peopleâ€
Yeh.
It totally cured a five year old boy the other month.
😦
FYI, I’ve posted a refutation of the entire line of though at Do Co-morbidities Prove Pathology?.