‘Acceptance Therapy’ In Action

27 Apr

I was sent a newly published paper today and for one it was a total joy to read from start to finish.

Usually I have to wade through mercury, MMR, epidemics etc. Today there was none of that. The paper is entitled:

A qualitative investigation of changes in the belief systems of families of children with autism or Down syndrome

An intriguing title and one that I admit I first thought was going to be heavy on religion and low on science. I was wrong.

The results of this paper were:

Parents can come to gain a sense of coherence and control through changes in their world views, values and priorities that involve different ways of thinking about their child, their parenting role, and the role of the family. Although parents may grapple with lost dreams, over time positive adaptations can occur in the form of changed world
views concerning life and disability, and an appreciation of the positive contributions made by children to family members and society as a whole. Parents’ experiences indicate the importance of hope and of seeing possibilities that lie ahead.

How absolutely refreshing not have to wade through the _Strum und Drang_ of ‘the hell/abyss/nightmare’ of autism and how all its ‘victims’ are destined for a life of institutionalisation, abuse and neglect.

Over time, parents may experience changes in ways of seeing their child, themselves and the world. These new perspectives may encompass profound rewards, enrichments, and the appreciation of the positive contributions made by people with disabilities

and

A wide range of positive changes or transformational outcomes have been reported by parents of children with disabilities, including: the development of personal qualities such as patience, love, compassion and tolerance (Summers et al 1989; Behr & Murphy 1993; Scorgie & Sobsey 2000; Kausar et al. 2003); improved relationships with family members and others (Stainton & Besser 1998; Scorgie & Sobsey 2000; Kausar et al 2003); stronger spiritual or religious beliefs (Yatchmenoffet al. 1998; Scorgie & Sobsey 2000; Poston & Turnbull 2004); an ability to focus on the present (Featherstone 1980); and a greater appreciation of the small and simple things in life (Abbott & Meredith 1986; Kausaret al. 2003). Studies therefore indicate that, with time and experience, parents of children with disabilities may come to regain a sense of control over their circumstances and a sense of meaning in life by seeing the positive contributions of their children with respect to personal growth and learning whatis important.

There is so much truth to this. My marriage and relationships with my kids has grown stronger and stronger. We have learned how to work for and support each other in so many ways and we place precious value on the here and now. We don’t get the twice yearly holidays, constant cinema trips etc that a lot of my peers enjoy but what we do is spend lots and lots of time with each other. This would never have happened if our daughter wasn’t autistic.

Initial reactions to parenting a child with a disability

I remember when I first got the diagnosis, my preoccupation – to be perfectly honest with you – was about me. It wasn’t about my son. It was about what I was feeling. And I was feeling powerfully upset about this diagnosis because . . . it just completely turns your life upside down. I had plans. I wanted my children to be happy but I wanted them to be accomplished. . . . So both of us – my husband and I – had this vision of our children as being academically keen. . . . So to be confronted with the possibility that my son would not even have imagination, I just didn’t know what to do. I was devastated. and I couldn’t fix it.

Again, this is a very accurate reflection of how I felt at the time. One turns inward and searches for reasons, for blame and for a way to _fix_ things. I have to smile as I look back at those days now but they were pretty awful. Particularly for our daughter who we subjected to _our_ guilt.

Family Strengths

This is a quote from a service provider:

I find that the majority of families that I know who have kids with special needs are some of the strongest families that I’ve ever encountered. . . . I remember someone making a comment once about ‘You must see a lot of dysfunctional families.’ I said ‘It’s the exact opposite, they are some of the healthiest and strongest families that I’ve known.’

And I think that _can_ be true as well. Not always. I’m aware of a lot of families who have not managed to move past the ‘me’ stage and I hear about divorces and arguments and screaming matches and custody battles.

Neurodiversity, Acceptance and Cure

No, the word ‘neurodiversity’ is never used in this paper but it may as well be – its _exactly_ what some of these parents are talking about.

Our children have taught us the true worth of an individual. Our society tends to value persons based on performance, knowledge, education, the ability to earn income. And these children have taught us that there are so many more inherently important values, which have shaped us as a family.

One of the most powerful quotes from a parent was this one:

Another thing that makes me feel that I am so much smarter than I used to be is that I have given up trying to fix my son. . . . All I have to do is figure out . . . what he wants and what will make him happy, and try to put a structure around it. . . . He’s fine the way he is, and it was for me to figure that out and, gee, the poor guy while I was figuring that out.

Fine the way he is. Are there people out there who can _hear that_ ?

And it’s true that if you don’t change the way you think about this child, if you always think that you wanted to have a normal child and you are always comparing your child to a normal child, you’ll never really be accepting and you just don’t get anywhere.

It really is as if these researchers had interviewed me for this study (obviously they hadn’t – its Canadian) as these are thoughts and opinions that I share. It says to me that far from being an isolated phenomenon, the ideas that underpin what I think of as neurodiversity are much more pervasive and widespread than a lot of people imagine.

I’ll close by saying how much I enjoyed reading this paper. It moved me to tears and it made me grin from ear to ear. The authors conclude:

The findings may provide families with a sense of realistic hope for the future, and may validate their perspectives by showing that they are not alone in their experiences and challenges. It may be beneficial for families to know that family life changes, and that other parents report changes in ways of thinking about their child and their parenting role that provide a sense of control and meaning in life. Parents may find it useful to know that it is common to feel a lack of control, and disappointment and sadness due to lost dreams. Over time, many families gain new dreams, develop new understandings of their child and of the world, manage life effectively by adjusting their priorities, and report life-changing benefits for themselves, other family members, and members of the broader community.

Hasten the day :o)

66 Responses to “‘Acceptance Therapy’ In Action”

  1. KChew April 27, 2006 at 16:21 #

    Being Charlie’s parents has been and continues to be a transformative experience for us. It–and Charlie, in evey way and every moment–have made the world bigger, better, and more beautiful in more ways.

  2. Bartholomew Cubbins April 27, 2006 at 16:51 #

    Great stuff.

    We’re born accepting people. It seems we get taught to be otherwise somewhere along the way and then have to re-learn that which was native.

  3. Elisabeth Clark April 27, 2006 at 17:02 #

    Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!!!!

  4. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) April 27, 2006 at 18:38 #

    🙂

  5. Ms Clark April 27, 2006 at 20:32 #

    )*( )*( )*(

    (autistic applause)
    It’s amazing that that came out of Canada which has media that is totally riddled with negativity, certainly as negative as the media in the US (save for the stuff about J-Mac recently) if not more so.

    I sent a copy of this paper to a pediatrician at the MIND institute. That pediatrician is nice but I’d love to see him/her get the idea of neurodiversity. I’d love to see all of them get the idea of neurodiversity, but they’d probably have to kick out the toxic founding fathers to get anywhere with that.

  6. Nathzn April 27, 2006 at 20:58 #

    😀

  7. Joseph April 27, 2006 at 21:47 #

    That pediatrician is nice but I’d love to see him/her get the idea of neurodiversity. I’d love to see all of them get the idea of neurodiversity, but they’d probably have to kick out the toxic founding fathers to get anywhere with that.

    This is why I think it would be important to explain the neurodiversity model in the scientific literature as a plausible competing model to that of the disease construct of autism.

  8. clone3g April 27, 2006 at 22:08 #

    Neurodiversity, neurological disability and the public sector: notes on the autism spectrum

    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/routledg/cdso/2006/00000021/00000001/art00002

  9. Joseph April 27, 2006 at 22:22 #

    Thanks for that link. I guess PubMed doesn’t index it because it’s not in a medical journal?

  10. María Luján April 27, 2006 at 23:02 #

    Hi Kevin
    Very important paper you mentioned. Thank you very much for it.
    I think that an integrative view is possible. I also think that depends on the personal view of the parents and the individual experience. It has not been an easy journey;but is an evolutive process for me as a person and for my family.
    Thank you again
    María Luján

  11. mike stanton April 27, 2006 at 23:21 #

    BC said
    We’re born accepting people. It seems we get taught to be otherwise somewhere along the way and then have to re-learn that which was native.

    There is a great book called “Look at Kids” by Leila Berg. I do not know if it is still in print. I bought my (missing) copy 30 years ago. As I recall one of the stories she tells is of two pre-schoolers who were inseperable. Then they start school together and the little girl comes home in a real strop saying that their friendship is over because, “He lied to me. He never told me he was black.”

    She learned “otherwise” pretty damn quick. It is a shame that relearning the native seems to take so much longer.

  12. Kevin Champagne April 28, 2006 at 04:39 #

    Acceptance does not require that change is possible or even conceivable, nor does it require that the situation be desired or approved by those accepting it. Indeed, acceptance is often suggested when a situation is both disliked and unchangeable, or when change may be possible only at great cost or risk and nothing is as important to the survival of mankind as change. Resistance to change comes from a fear of the unknown or an expectation of failure.

    Acceptance, is when people stop judging each other and agree to disagree.

    But what is required, is to be equally critical to the old ideas as well as the new.

    Whenever the established ideas are accepted uncritically, but conflicting new evidence is brushed aside and not reported because it does not fit, then that particular science is in deep trouble – and it has happened quite often in the historical past. If we look over the history of science, there are very long periods when the uncritical acceptance of the established ideas was a real hindrance to the pursuit of the new. This period is not going to be all that different in that respect.

    Mitchel Peters- ( December, 1997) ” Human imperfection dictates that perfect advocacy can be no more than a quixotic quest. Genuine errors of judgement by committed advocates should not invalidate the intrinsic morality of their advocacy. This does not mean we should be indifferently fatalistic about any costly consequence; but reconcile with that possibility, whilst minimising the likelihood of its occurrence. But to simply deny the potential for mistakes is to deny our humanity.

  13. Jonathan Semetko April 28, 2006 at 04:53 #

    This made my day!

  14. Elisabeth Clark April 28, 2006 at 13:21 #

    How do you guys AFFORD to access all these cool articles??? I’d love to read them, but it wants to charge me $28 (or more) a hit- argh!!

  15. Bartholomew Cubbins April 28, 2006 at 13:52 #

    If we look over the history of science, there are very long periods when the uncritical acceptance of the established ideas was a real hindrance to the pursuit of the new. This period is not going to be all that different in that respect.

    Except, in the example of an earth-centric solar system, it was the clergy influencing and desperately clinging on to a belief-based model that was eventually trumped by reason. To their credit, it does sound comforting at some level to think that we could be the center of the universe.

    Now, religious zealots are trying to trump science by infusing fringe/scary methods (urine injections, H-peroxide, balloon-not-HBOT, IR saunas, Lupron insanity, yes – chelation). The belief-based models are comforting – we’re in control and we know what’s best so we’re going to do it.

    What would have happened if ‘teh intarnets’ were around during the sun/earth center debate? How would the flattening of the information distribution have changed that debate and how would it look compared to autism-mercury?

    But what is required, is to be equally critical to the old ideas as well as the new.

    Equally critical means applying the same burden of proof using the same methodology. She says, “The moon is made of green cheese. God told me so. It will be proved by your scientific methods, but it needs more research.” He says, “The moon is largely comprised of rock of forms x, y, and z. We base this on rocks that have fallen from the sky.” I’m going to believe the old one and say to hell with the new one – and that doesn’t mean that I’m not an accepting person. It means that I admire rational analysis.

  16. Joseph April 28, 2006 at 14:18 #

    Kevin Champagne: If we look over the history of science, there are very long periods when the uncritical acceptance of the established ideas was a real hindrance to the pursuit of the new. This period is not going to be all that different in that respect.

    I tend to agree. The uncritical acceptance of the disease construct of autism is a real hindrance to the pursuit of the more positive and beneficial neurodiversity model. I’m hoping this will change in due time.

  17. Joseph April 28, 2006 at 14:20 #

    I guess there are some notable exceptions to the conclusions of this research. Rimland comes to mind.

  18. María Luján April 28, 2006 at 14:41 #

    Hi Bart

    I also admire rational analysis and, for a smile, it is not private of “he” 🙂

    Even when I have strong ideas in terms of what is not proven/serious in the field of autism/treatments, there is a general rush to label all the same and to consider all people thinking in a link the same and this if very unfair.

    Joseph you say
    The uncritical acceptance of the disease construct of autism is a real hindrance to the pursuit of the more positive and beneficial neurodiversity model. I’m hoping this will change in due time.

    I think again that an integrative view is possible, considering the best of both approaches, with changes in how the autism is considered. How they have been considered as opposite is for me the problem and it is related to personal views and opinions, mainly.

    María Luján

  19. Ms Clark April 28, 2006 at 19:37 #

    Maria,

    I think the habit to “rush to judge all new ideas as the same” only came after rational people like myself, Bart and Not Mercury and Kevin (and others), all started to believe the “new biomed paradigm” and give it some credit.

    I remember thinking, “this guy says B6 and magnesium should be tried on autistic children” and saying, “OK, that sounds reasonable.” Myself, I started to take extra magnesium and calcium, partly based on that suggestion, I didn’t take extra B6 and I gave neither to my ASD child above what xe would normally get in a multi-vitamin supplement and xyr diet.

    I didn’t see any big difference and sort of lost interest in magnesium.

    The first time I heard about thimerosal causing and epidemic (now we are talking about an argument that sounds hyped up hysterical, and raging, orders of magnitude less rational sounding than “try some B6 and magnesium, see if it helps”), I thought, “hmmm, that doesn’t sound right.” But I thought it very calmly like… “I suppose it could be true, but it doesn’t sound right.”

    The more I saw people come into various Internet and media venues with absolutely *screaming* irrational statements like,:
    “they accidently poisoned a generation of children. Now there’s a conspiracy to protect big pharma,”
    and I saw these sicko, psycho screaming irrational arguments introduced in places that had before been discussing things other than thimerosal,
    in places that were full of open minded people who really didn’t need to be screamed at,
    when I saw that any skeptical questions were met with accusations of, “You’re a pharmco shill!!” …
    when I was accused of being an unwitting tool of big pharma by someone (on the spectrum) who I had been supporting in her battle to overcome a problem in the real world…
    that just sort of started me on a path of looking deeper into who is doing the screaming and what is the evidence for their wild accusations.

    What I found over and over again was that the people with the nutty statements, “all autism is is mercury poisoning” and, “you can make autistic kids normal with biomed (or biomed plus ABA) for a PRICE,”
    and I looked at the character of the people at the source of the statements (everyone else was repeating what the sources said), I found really criminal people, really stupid people and really greedy people were the sources.

    I found that the “source” doctors lie about their credentials and have very shady pasts which include things like recommending exorcism for autistic kids. I found that the papers they wave around are pure garbage or they don’t say what the source people say. I found a few credible people hanging around the edges, but the majority of the DAN! doctors and Buttar and his Buttar trained doctors and the DAN! chiropractors… were incompetent boobs or worse.

    I found a bunch of ambulence chasing lawyers.

    You know medical schools *do* graduate people at the “bottom of the class.” People at the “top of the class” maintain things like board certifications. The majority of the “source” people are not board certified at all, and you have people like Jim Adams who is a materials engineer playing a vitamin/chelation expert on television.

    It’s not that I throw out all the biomed arguments now immediately, but if there is the slightest smell of snake-oil, out it goes and I start digging into the real story (like HBOT is fairly new, I have done some digging on what it is, it doesn’t cure autism, it’s a rip off).

    I think there’s a very good reason why the new arguments are tossed out. It’s because they are garbage arguments. Good new arguments, like “lets look at inflammatory cytokines,” or “lets look at horseback riding”… don’t get attacked. There is real research going on in proteomics and autism right now. There is no real research going on in “RNA drops” because it’s so patently stupid and it’s such obvious snake oil, also the people making money off of it don’t want real research.

    MeB12 is being studied, and I think will be shown to be snake oil. Even the contact that the MIND has had with the quacks has degraded this research so that the quality of the study is so much poorer than their other studies. There are some serious ethical issues around this study that may bring it to a crashing halt. Those ethical problems come directly from the contact that the study’s lead investigator has had with quackery, I believe.

    The biomed parents, besides you Maria, don’t want rational investigation into their beliefs. They want endless funding to pay for the delivery of these treatments to their kids, even if the treatements will kill or maim their children, the parents are willing to take that risk.

    The accusation that we are close minded is wrong.

  20. Ms Clark April 28, 2006 at 19:50 #

    One of the biggest problems causing dead-end research is that some scientists are working on the premise that autism is a new thing, or that there’s the “OLD” autism and the “NEW” autism which is caused by environmental stuff that is new to the environment.

    In order to look for the “NEW” causes to the “NEW” autism they have to ignore all the “OLD” autistics and treat them like they are worthless as far as giving information about the “NEW” autism. This paradigm is ridiculous and only based on the needs of the ambulence chasers and the vaccine litigants. It is not based in reality since there are not separate classes of old and new autistics.

  21. clone3g April 28, 2006 at 20:03 #

    Thank you Ms. Clark — Perfectly said.

  22. María Luján April 28, 2006 at 20:41 #

    Hi Mrs Clark
    Thank you very much for your explanation. I understand clearly what you say and even I can share many concerns you have. I am interested on the serious science , perhaps from totally different people than those that are more cited and discussed, that can bring refreshing ideas and another view, based on high tech and high level science, considering ALL the potential insults for autistic children. I think that I am not alone. There are many parents like me. I think that there are problems about how we perceived other people. In this sense even in Internet, this is a world of personal perceptions of others and how affect you their words (talking about me).
    When I begun in Internet, near 9 months ago my idea was to know why people think the way they do from both sides. I have a personal idea about and also what is the reason of the kind of debate that many times evolves, that is improductive and hurting with personal attacks. I understand that many of the neurodiversity defenders are angry ( and I agree that there are reasons to be so). I never thought that neurodiversity think that ASD children must be left unattended.This is not true. What you are worried about is how autistic are mistreated and misconsidered always/many times by the most vocal people of many organizations and about the use/misuse of science to sell treatments. ME too. I have shared a lot of concerns about how treatments are sold as panacea without enough ( or with lack of) science behind.
    The point is to know what is useful and what is not, what is serious and what is not and who is a seller or a doctor. IT is not an easy goal.
    I understand also that to deal with autism is not easy as a parent. PErsonally my experience with mainstreamed medicine was catastrophic. I try to understand that many times there are so many anger and personal feelings involved that simply the opportunity of hear is closed, whatever the source. However, you can be angry with the situation ( why my son? and many many other questions without answer) and however to try to go back 5 steps and to understand the overall situation, in the individual about autism (in my son for me) and in general about what autism is. I do my best. I share with other parents concerns about HM ( and thimerosal ) and vaccines but I want high level science to study this.My son is under a coherent approach, based on rational science, with careful evaluation of benefits against risks.My husband and I must live with my/our decissions and I/we do. My point is that this deserves respect. My son´s soul has not been stolen by thimerosal and /or vaccines. He is unique and wonderful and I love him with all my heart. I appreciate his diversity, such as I appreciate that I am probably in the spectrum and also the diversity we have because we are in evolution as human beings. For me this is a journey of evolution as a woman, a parent and a human being, to understand better the mom my son needs and how I must change to be at the level of what he needs.
    I have learned a lot from many of you. However, many times there are so much history -of negative interactions.-behind that the heart is closed, altough not the mind.
    As you have seen, I hope that we can meet in a safer place, when you can feel respected and appreciated ( and I do, beyond particular disagreement with the way many of you present disagreement that many times is very hurting for me). We can disagree in many things, but we can agree in mutual consideration to make learning possible. Thank you for your honesty.
    Being faced with my personal experience with my son, with an extense list of comorbilities found under careful testing, I think that I have tried to do the best for him. As I told you ever, in this way I hope that with the proper treatment he will become the best autistic he can be.

    Thank you for your answer and your time .
    María Luján

  23. Ms Clark April 28, 2006 at 23:09 #

    Maria,

    If you just keep reading the science, which you do, and keep an open mind to all the things that might have caused your son’s comorbidities, and don’t get too invested in the idea that mercury has to be part of it, you will start to figure things out. I think that if you try to fit heavy metals into your ideas at every step of the way you will end up with confusion.

    I have a favorite “autism is caused by” hypothesis. It’s a particular kind of gene I think is interesting. There’s a mom on a couple list who makes this huge case for autism being caused by calicum ion channels. I’m always tempted to tell her to shut up because her hyptothesis sounds better than mine… I like my pet hypothesis. But if I wanted to do something big with it (I don’t) then I’d have to be open to dropping it otherwise I’d be rejecting good science that might come along to boot my pet hypothesis out the door…

    As it is, autism probably has 20 different causes at the bare minium…

    So maybe 5% of all cases of autism are caused by my pet hypothesis…. (probably not, but I can dream).

    The thing is that if you think that heavy metals caused your son’s autism, fine, keep looking, but be open minded that maybe they had nothing to do with your son’s autism, and realize that maybe only 5% of all autistics’ autism would have a similar source.

    As I’ve said before, all you have to do is take some blood samples of kids right after they get a TCV (or the next day… whatever the protocol is). Kids are getting the vaccines right now. It doesn’t have to be a case of reconstructing the past.
    Third world governments have not become convinced that there is great danger in TCV’s thank goodness. I don’t think we need to assume that they are all stupid. I think they are probably all praying for a vaccine for malaria, if you wanted to talk vaccines with them, that would be what they’d like to discuss… or maybe for dengue fever or river blindness or AIDS…
    I sincerely doubt they are freaking out about autism spectrum.

  24. María Luján April 29, 2006 at 00:02 #

    Hi MRs Clark
    I do not think that mercury CAUSED my son autism . I think that BECAUSE he is autistic, by his particular combination of genetics polymorphisms, he has been very affected by heavy metals in general, including thimerosal but also the heavy metals from air , water food and general exposure we had.
    I am not locked in this idea, I assure you. As I have always tried to present to you, Hg is one of a long list of concerns about my son, based on what we found in him as medically wrong. I can also mention herpes (simplex 1) ( very much, he had a strong attack lasting 8 months ), EBV, CMV, bacterian and other viruses, allergies , Pituitary-thyroid-adrenal axis, etc etc etc, not as causes. THE cause (the final one, the one I have always in my mind ) is genetics. My question is how the gene expression/epigenetics is affected in ASD children by environment. This is why I think that immune system, digestive system and detox system ( for xenobiotics managements and viruses,bacterian, strept and toxoid management) must be studied with care in ASD.

    I know about the research of the mom you mentioned and I have read a lot about. I think she has done a wonderful work of research about and it is a very interesting topic to research. If you want, I would be interested about your idea, if you want to share with me by e-mail.

    You say
    As I’ve said before, all you have to do is take some blood samples of kids right after they get a TCV (or the next day… whatever the protocol is). Kids are getting the vaccines right now. It doesn’t have to be a case of reconstructing the past.
    I think that for a lot of the population, all will be fine, because they are not susceptible genetically. The problem for me are the children/teens/adults who are genetically susceptible (work of Echeverria, Woods, etc).

    You say
    Third world governments have not become convinced that there is great danger in TCV’s thank goodness. I don’t think we need to assume that they are all stupid. I think they are probably all praying for a vaccine for malaria, if you wanted to talk vaccines with them, that would be what they’d like to discuss… or maybe for dengue fever or river blindness or AIDS…
    I sincerely doubt they are freaking out about autism spectrum.

    I understand and I think that vaccines are extremely important to prevent disease. This is out of discussion. But the problem is to detect what children can be genetically susceptible in first years to be damaged-that would be not all of course. Because we do not know for now, I understand that the problem is the lack of knowledge about. For me, another aspect of the advocate I must be for my son is to ask for safe dental practices for him, for safe antibiotics for him and for safe vaccines for him, because he is different from a NT, genetically.

    Sincerely
    MAría Luján

  25. Ruth April 29, 2006 at 02:14 #

    Ms. Clark:

    Have you read anything about genomic imprinting and autism? It is known that a few genes are expressed differently if they come from the father or the mother. Prader-Willi Syndrome appears to result from deletion of paternal, not maternal genes on chromosome 15. Angelman’s syndrome occurs if only paternal genes remain. Imprinting gives a very hard to follow heritability pattern, as we see in autism. That is the stuff I’m reading now.

    Maria-Sorry I didn’t get back to you last week about toxicology. My daughter had her First Communion. As she walked down the ailse in white satin and organdy, she looked like her peers (just a little stimming).

  26. María Luján April 29, 2006 at 03:15 #

    Ruth
    Thank you for your comment about. Please do not worry. I understand.
    María Luján

  27. Estee April 29, 2006 at 15:24 #

    Yes. I’ve read the paper and had the same response. I will be talking to them about the event in October in Toronto titled:

    The Joy of Autism: Redefining Ability and Qualtiy of Life

    featuring many participants soon to be announced.

  28. McLoren April 29, 2006 at 18:08 #

    Individuals with Downs syndrome and other chromosome defects are useless to society and it’s unnecessary that my Abe’s is going to SpeEd for organisms who easily can, and ought to, be aborted. Had it been up to me it had been a federal law that would make it a crime giving birth to chromosome defects. It’s simply unethical towards the tax-payers to let’em live.

  29. Kev April 29, 2006 at 18:23 #

    Wow – someone more scummy then John. Who would’ve thought it possible?

    Just for others information. ‘McLoren’ is a guy called ‘Matthew’ posting from Norway – he’s posted under a few different aliases now.

    McLoren – take your fascist opinions elsewhere please.

  30. bonni April 29, 2006 at 18:51 #

    Just for others information. ‘McLoren’ is a guy called ‘Matthew’ posting from Norway

    Isn’t he the one who’s a chemistry student and is going to take on the entire pharmeceutical industry and bring it to its knees? Or am I thinking of someone else?

  31. Kev April 29, 2006 at 18:59 #

    I think so bonni, yeah.

  32. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) April 29, 2006 at 19:35 #

    McLoren… “Had it been up to me it had been a federal law that would make it a crime giving birth to chromosome defects.”

    Du forbannade idiotisk skitstovel! Fan, du er ikke en riktig person som kan även elska … du er själv ett chromosomedefekt og dina varaldrer skulle ha gjort av deg abort, om du tänkar sÃ¥.

    Det kommer klart til mig att Finland – även om det är inte det bästa land i Norden – sÃ¥ är det fan ett miljon gänger bättre än forbannade Norge….. för sÃ¥ lÃ¥ng til du är själv död.

    Skitstovel! GÃ¥ ny tillbacka og knulla din mor… det klart att du kan ikke gjöra bättre.

  33. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) April 29, 2006 at 19:36 #

    McL was the waste of a good wank.

  34. Ruth April 29, 2006 at 20:32 #

    McLoren-
    If you have a stroke or develop dementia, will you make sure we tax payers don’t have to feed You? There but for the grace of God go I…

    People with gene defects like Bill Gates and Temple Granidin have made more contributions to society than you ever will.

  35. McLoren April 29, 2006 at 21:00 #

    Kev wrote:

    – “Just for others information. ‘McLoren’ is a guy called ‘Matthew’ posting from Norway” –

    No shit, Einstein?! Am I really? Such abilities should be rewarded with a fucking Nobel Prize! If your lucky the fucking NSA may headhunt you, your S.O.B!

  36. Kev April 29, 2006 at 21:11 #

    Well, if you’re not I guess that means there’s two neo-fascists with little to no brains in Norway.

    Oh and the NSA? why would they be after me?

    Baaaaahh…

  37. McLoren April 29, 2006 at 21:25 #

    “- Du forbannade idiotisk skitstovel! Fan, du er ikke en riktig person som kan även elska … du er själv ett chromosomedefekt og dina varaldrer skulle ha gjort av deg abort, om du tänkar sÃ¥.

    Det kommer klart til mig att Finland – även om det är inte det bästa land i Norden – så är det fan ett miljon gänger bättre än forbannade Norge….. för så lång til du är själv död.

    Skitstovel! GÃ¥ ny tillbacka og knulla din mor… det klart att du kan ikke gjöra bättre. – ”

    Yeah. If you want me to read your garbage you have to change to english.

  38. Kev April 29, 2006 at 21:43 #

    Bit more information:

    WHOIS for ‘McLoren’.

    WHOIS for ‘Matthew Pearson’.

    Both resolve to 85.164.20*.* originating from Bergen, Hordaland in Norway.

    If anybody feels so moved to, you could complain about Matthew ‘student chemist’ Pearson to his ISP who are Telnor – abuse@telnor should get there.

    I’m having a quick search around for Matthew Pearson, Bergen, Norway, autism etc. Nothing of note so far but please feel free to join in and see if we can dig up a place of work/study etc.

  39. Ms Clark April 30, 2006 at 00:59 #

    Ruth,

    Yes, I know about genonic imprinting, it’s fascinating stuff.
    http://autismdiva.blogspot.com/2006/04/how-many-copies-make-you-you.html

    Did you read this? (if not, shame on you). It’s not genomic imprinting but a new way to skew the output of genes… an old way that was overlooked…. I guess. Click on the title
    “Magic Numbers: It’s not just which genes you have but how many: Bob Holmes reveals what makes us who we are.”

    Everyone has defective genes. Everyone. Francis Crick, one of the guys who “discovered” the double-helix of DNA was “into” the idea of not allowing people with bipolar disorder to be born, but he had Asperger’s written all over him. He was talking like a big dumb jerk from what I saw of him in an interview, he didn’t realize how bad off he was with his twitching and ticcing (or maybe it was more like stuttering) and monotone voice. Good grief, he’d have been the first on someone’s list to be euthanized. I guess he got to die naturally and wasn’t euthanized in his declining days for being a “useless eater” http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=11422

    He had some kind of like feud going with Kay Redfield Jamison (from what I remember) where she has bipolar and was advocating for the giftedness/contributions of people with bipolar…and he was saying, yeah, but most of them would be better off if they had never been born… And she just sort of hinted; “look at you buster, you’re far from a perfect specimen of humanity.”

  40. Ms Clark April 30, 2006 at 01:17 #

    mms://audio.bl.uk/media/exhibitions/nobel/crick.wma

    Here’s Crick’s voice, from 1962, I think…. he sounds normal, but when I saw an nterview of him (he was elderly) he didn’t sound this normal in the video… maybe he had had some minor strokes or something. He and Watson were seriously geeky.

  41. Ms Clark April 30, 2006 at 01:18 #

    mms://audio.bl.uk/media/exhibitions/nobel/einsteinnobel.wma

    oooh, Einstein on audio. I had no idea that these things existed.

  42. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) April 30, 2006 at 07:53 #

    McL: “Yeah. If you want me to read your garbage you have to change to english.”

    Hyiiiivittu! Et oo mitään vaan paskapala sairaan norsun perseestä.

    Okay… I have to mix Swedish in with your shitty language (which – when spoken – sounds like a swedish with a knob in his/her mouth!)… big fat hairy deal!

    Point is, McL, you’re a seriously shitty excuse for a human being. That was my point, and you managed to prove it by … what… in your case, just existing.

    You were (and always will be) the waste of a good wank.

  43. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) April 30, 2006 at 07:57 #

    I told JBJr about someone even worse than him.

    *quote*
    Anonymous said…
    Well, JBJr….

    We over on Kev’s blog have found a piece of shit even worse than you!

    Makes you look nice.

    LoL

    DNA… and yeh, it IS me 😛
    *endquote*

    This is his response!

    *quote*

    11:39 AM
    Fore Sam said…
    David;
    You must be talking about thr guy who favors abortion. That will never happen with autistic kids since they are made, not born. When you bunch of dopes come down from acid trips, you’ll realize how idiotic the whole neurodiversity bullshit is and help your kids instead of letting them vegetate.
    My son was able to go bowling today thanks to chelation. Before chelation, he would have tried to eat the ball. When will you dumb bastards wake up!
    *endquote*

    LoL

    I have never taken acid or indeed *any* illegal substance! His son was able to go bowling that day because his dad was sufficiently bothered to fucking take him!!!! LoL

  44. McLoren April 30, 2006 at 09:47 #

    Leitch wrote:
    ” – Both resolve to 85.164.20*.* originating from Bergen, Hordaland in Norway. – ”

    LOL! Is that all you can fucking do?! If I would had any enjoyment of it I could crack this blog and all the other retarded neurodiversity-blogs, but that is below my standards for ethics. I could even track what type of dipers your braindamaged trainwhreck of a daughter is shitting in, but once again.. I have class.

  45. Kev April 30, 2006 at 09:59 #

    Son, I doubt you’re allowed out by mummy and daddy past 8pm 😮
    )

  46. Kev April 30, 2006 at 10:06 #

    McLoren has been banned – now al I need to do is tremble in ph34r of his l33t skillz.

  47. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) April 30, 2006 at 10:07 #

    we need to find out his university.

  48. Ruth April 30, 2006 at 12:15 #

    Ms. Clark-
    Yes, I enjoyed reading your blog on gene numbers. I think all the simple gene disorders have been discovered, and autism as well as other differences will be due to gene number or some subtle regulation mechanism.

    I remember thinking Crick was Aspie after reading some of his stuff. Watson is even worse. He has a son with ASD, but is into the whole eugenics thing. He is also a sexist pig. Crick could at least consider that Rosiland Franklin had real problems as a Jewish woman in the 1950’s in science, but Watson was oblivious.

  49. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) April 30, 2006 at 12:17 #

    I wrote to the Rector of the University of Bergen by e-mail with the appropriate refs for this blog and a couple of quotes from this chap.

    Not sure what, if anything, can be done though.

  50. Joseph April 30, 2006 at 15:47 #

    McLoren said: Individuals with Downs syndrome and other chromosome defects are useless to society and it’s unnecessary that my Abe’s is going to SpeEd for organisms who easily can, and ought to, be aborted. Had it been up to me it had been a federal law that would make it a crime giving birth to chromosome defects. It’s simply unethical towards the tax-payers to let’em live.

    Who is this intolerant ass? He makes JBJr look like Mother Theresa. (Another example of the kind of people we’re dealing with). I’m all against eugenics, but if it were possible to abort intolerant people like this guy, I have to admit I’d be tempted.

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