On the 5th May a Letter from Kenneth P Stoller appeared in Pediatrics.
UW-Madison researcher Paul Shattuck concludes that special education figures being used are “faulty and do not substantiate such a claim” (that there is an autism epidemic). Paul Shattuck seems to be saying that all the reported autistic children have always been here, they were just called something else.
Shattuck makes no such conclusion. In a clarifying comment on Scienceblogs, Paul Shattuck stated:
Unfortunately, the media and some advocacy groups have distorted what my article was all about. I was quite explicit in the article that A) my work does not prove or disprove the existence of an epidemic and I think that is still an open issue….My number one goal was to raise awareness about the limitations of the special ed. data.
As a pediatrician, who has been in practice for over two decades, I find it more than a little insulting as well as disturbing to have someone say that these children were always there.
Several pediatricians do not find it insulting. Suniti Chakrabarti for example – who diagnosed my own daughter – co-authored a paper with Eric Fombonne which confirned a high but stable prevalence for autism. There are also several interesting studies that indicate that ASD has historically been very underdiagnosed.
In 2004, an ‘autism audit‘ was performed in Scotland. One of the questions the audit asked was how accurate they thought the prevalence rate estimates were for their area. 45% of authorities who responded made a point of noting that they felt diagnosis for adults was very underrepresented. For example, Perth and Kinross council stated
Figures for adults reflect the national findings that the numbers known to services/diagnosed represent a significant underestimate of those individuals likely to be affected. For example day centre managers locally consider a number of people to be on the spectrum who have had no formal diagnosis.
Also, in a New Scientist piece last year, the findings of the University of Nottingham were reported. The team reexamined data from the 1970’s which resulted in five diagnosis. Using modern diagnostic criteria, the team found 56 cases, a ten-fold increase.
Lastly, earlier this year, Health Minister Liam Byrne reported figures that demonstrated autism diagnoses for children have nearly doubled in 8 years from 3100 to 6170. Meanwhile adult diagnoses have nearly tripled in the same period from 1120 to 3000.
The idea of ‘insult’ is irrelevant to the substantiation of a case. And yet again, Shattuck made no claim that ‘these children were always there’. Such purposefully misleading statements entirely invalidate Stoller’s case.
As a scientist, I find the current approach to the autism epidemic – “The Emperor’s New Clothes†approach – to be deeply disturbing.
Appeals to authority do not make one automatically correct. I’m sure there are several people who could say that ‘as scientists’ they question the idea of there being an epidemic of autism at all. That wouldn’t automatically make them right either. What does lend their viewpoint some weight as the fact that the science supports their opinions.
For years the vaccine division at the CDC and others have said the reason for the dramatic increase in autism is due to “better diagnosing” and “greater awareness.””They have encouraged those like Paul Shattuck to manufacture uncertainty.
This is quite simply yet more purposefully misleading rubbish. This study was funded largely by the Autistic Society of America. Paul Shattuck has also stated his affiliations with the CDC quite clearly:
As for the $540,000 from the CDC…it’s not entirely clear what they are talking about. I certainly don’t have a grant that big from anyone. They are probably talking about the autism surveillance grant that our center received from the CDC…a proposal which I helped prepare but am not listed as a co-investigator and am not funded from….I do have a small grant for about $12,000 from the CDC to investigate racial and socioeconomic disparities in the timing of autism diagnosis and service utilization.
Why Stoller indulges in such flagrant misrepresentation is not apparent. I am forced to conclude in the absence of a good reason, that Stoller has nothing to fall back on other than annoyance that Shattuck’s conclusions did not meet his beliefs and thus he felt it necessary to resort to distortion and spin.
There are no studies that have found the previously undiagnosed or misdiagnosed autistic individuals among older Americans. They simply aren’t there.
Mr Stoller is once again making assumptions. I have found no studies in PubMed that even attempt to pose this question, let alone answer it. How Stoller concludes there are none when no studies have sought an answer to this question is bewildering. I would like to suggest Mr Stoller examines the evidence from the three UK sources I quote from above. The US and the UK have a near identical autism prevalence. It seems reasonable that older patterns of prevalence might follow suit.
Now, the increase of autism has been linked to the increase in mercury exposure through fish and industrial sources, amalgam and additionally, through increased parenteral exposure to ethylmercurithiosalicate.
Its also been linked to alien invasion and plastic cups. Surely a scientist understand the concept of correlation not equaling causation?
A recent study, using infant Macaca fascicularis primates exposed to injected ethylmercury or those exposed to equal amounts of ingested methylmercury, showed that ethylmercuy was retained twice as much inorganic mercury in their brains in comparison to the methylmercury exposed primates.(Burbacher T, et al. Comparison of blood and brain mercury levels in infant monkeys exposed to methylmercury or vaccines containing thimerosal. Environmental Health Perspectives, 2005 Aug:113(8):1015-21.)These primates were exposed to mercury levels at a rate equal to what children in the United States received via standard childhood vaccines from 1991- 2003.
What’s not often discussed about the Burbacher study is the interesting point that the group did not use thiomersal containing vaccines. They used non-thiomersal containing vaccines and then added thiomersal to them. It is difficult to know how this fresh preparation compares with vaccine formulas when thimerosal is part of the manufacturing process and may have suffered some degradation to inorganic Hg in the vials before administration.
Cysteine and glutathione synthesis are crucial for mercury detoxification, and are reduced in autistic children, possibly due to epigenetic polymorphisms.
The Deth paper made no such claim. The basic gist of the Deth paper is that various toxins, including thimerosal, affect methionine synthase activity (a process that helps in building proteins) and that this can adversely affect children. In short, the Deth paper alleges that thimerosal causes methionine synthase dysfunction (MSD). However, autism and MSD are entirely dissimilar.
Therefore, autistic children have 20% lower levels of cysteine and 54% lower levels of glutathione, which adversely affect their ability to detoxify and excrete metals like mercury. (James, S.J. et al.: Metabolic biomarkers of increased oxidative stress and impaired methylation capacity in children with autism. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 80, 1611-1617 2004).This leads to a higher concentration of free mercury in blood, which then transfers into tissues and increases the half-life of mercury in the body, as compared to children with normal levels of cysteine and glutathione. As was shown by Bradstreet et al (Bradstreet, J et al.: A case control study of mercury burden in children with autistic spectrum disorders. J. Am. Phys. Surg. 8, 76-79 2003) in a study involving 221 autistic children, vaccinated autistic children showed about 6 fold elevation of urinary mercury than normal controls after appropriate mobilization with the chelating agent DMSA.
And so we get down to it – Bradstreet and JAPANDS. A man who recommends exorcism and a journal who don’t publish errata or retractions. Great. Next!
Stoller then goes on to describe a whole host of things thiomersal apparently does without ever stating the fact that none of these things appear in the diagnostic criteria for autism.
This is an unconscionable oversight failure at best, at worse it is an example that we have left consensus reality to be created by the liars, thieves, cheats, killers, and the PR junk scientists they employ.
Quite a statement from someone who has actively misled people regarding Paul Shattucks connections with the CDC. I would put forward the idea that a PR junk scientist is one who isn’t even able to research the simplest of facts and instead concentrates solely on misrepresentation and spin. As for killers, its my opinion that Dr Roy Kerry is a great example of a DAN! protocol follower.
We are living in a time where an incredible overplay and lies and self-aggrandizing behavior and non-science is the norm.
Stoller has no argument from me there. He would seem to me to be living embodiment of that statement. He cites studies from people like Burbacher who’s ‘science’is funded by SafeMinds – a group whos mission statement is to establish a causal relationship between vaccines and autism. He cites people like Deth who are listed as expert witnesses for the prosecution in the omnibus proceedings against vaccine manufacturers.
Is it stretch to realize that by putting our heads in the sand about the autism epidemic we have made it possible for the groundwork to be put in place for Marshal Law?
Er, yes. Yes it is.
No something easy to contemplate? Then ask why haven’t pediatricians come forward to demand the end of the use of ethylmercurithiosalicate once and for all, and to advocate for the treatment of these children before it is too late?
Simple: they realise that the science doesn’t support your beliefs Mr Stoller. They understand the massive societal benefits of vaccination – a benefit being well demonstrated now that vaccine uptake is falling thanks to your scare mongering as Mumps epidemics sweep your country and measles epidemics resulting in 12% hospitalisation and at least one death so far sweep mine.
Stoller declares no conflicts of interest and yet in his signature he describes himself as a member of the International Hyperbaric Medical Association. This treament is a favourite of DAN! practitioners – people who profit by ‘treating’ autism – and yet there have been no published randomized controlled trials for low-pressure hyperbaric oxygen therapy as an autism treatment yet. Only one paper exists in Pub Med relating to HBOT and autism which blogger Dad of Cameron found at least one significant error in.
Mr Stoller establishes once more his propensity to bend or totally shatter facts by claiming no conflict of interest when it is clear he supports a therapy being widely utilised for profit on autistic children. Throughout this whole letter he willfully and (one must assume) knowingly misrepresents people like Paul Shattuck, relationships between people and institutions. He quite clearly has little knowledge of the limitations of the science he quotes as backing up his beliefs and then goes on to rage about ‘PR junk scientists’ whilst he promotes the use of a very expensive treatment with no established – or even reliably investigated- appreciable effect on autistic children.
Left Brain Right Brain 
That’s right. He probably figured the audience size was going to be zero for obvious reasons, but announcing the cancellation would’ve given that away. Better to keep it under wraps.
Can’t remember wrote:
“thimerisol”
– It’s ok though, we have already acknowledged that spelling isn’t an issue UNLESS you are responsible for the safety of vaccines given to babies.
” but in fact that person WAS using a correct spelling”.
– funny how we forget or possibly don’t comprehend what is written. Diane Simpson’s spelling was actually on some list of alternative spellings… she didn’t have a clue though. Chen’s spelling WAS NOT on the alternative spelling list… sorry cannot consider that “correct spelling”. Try again.
“Like I said, all the regulars on EoHarm think the CDC is evil, and not just the CDC”.
– Yes, people are angry. They should be. My point to Camille was you CANNOT completely twist people’s words (as she did to Sue M. and not be taken to task for it). She can’t comprehend the written word or she chooses to twist words… It’s one or the other.
“Ms Clark has enough credibility to be asked to participate in a task force at the MIND Institute. So I guess she has more credibility than you do”.
– That’s great. Congrats to her. They should be warned of her twisting of words and misrepresentation of people. Maybe they need to be sent some of the postings that she does here.
I’m sure that the woman in Canada who was disappointed by not being able to see David Kirby will get her money back. If not, I will personally write a letter to the Better Business Bureau on her behalf (or the Canadian equivalent). I have empathy for her. Obviously some sort of miscommunication. Definately could have been cancelled due to lack of interest in the area.
What makes you think that they don’t already know about my activities on the web, Sue M?
“Of course, Sue M defends Stoller as being in a hurry or whatever.”
How do you defend the badly spelled thiomercurithiosalicylate (did I get it right?), Sue M. You can see that I wasn’t sure how she defended it, but that I thought she defended it by saying Stoller was in a hurry.
So, here’s your chance to set me straight, Sue Misc., how do you expalin the difference between an error in a private email and an error in a public letter?
Oh, yeah, evil people make spelling mistakes because they are evil, is that right?
How ’bout them urine injections you gonna see if Buttar can cure your kids with them? If not why not? Kevin Champagne took his kid to see Buttar, I wonder if Kevin Champagne will take his kid in for those urine injections that Buttar is supposed to be doing for kids. Lets hope that no one mixes up those vials of urine in the office, wouldn’t it be horrible to get injected with someone else’s urine by mistake? Oh, yeah, it would be horrible to be injected with one’s own urine….
How ’bout that Lupron? Chemical castration for kids? Big pharma drugs with heavy duty side effects? All right. I wonder if the Lupron is preserved with thimerosal?
Camille wrote:
“but that I thought she defended it by saying Stoller was in a hurry”.
– But Sue M. didn’t do that. Get your facts straight. Stop twisting words. Stop misrepresenting people. Simple.
Camille wrote:
“how do you expalin the difference between an error in a private email and an error in a public letter”?
– I have no doubt that Stoller can spell thimerosal properly. Ethylmerc… blah, blah, blah is trickier. Isn’t it, Camille? Obviously you have been having some difficulties with it. Plus, most importantly, Stoller is not/was not responsible for vaccine safety for infants. So simple.
Camille wrote:
“Oh, yeah, evil people make spelling mistakes because they are evil, is that right”?
– You have that wrong. Clueless people in charge of protecting babies make spelling mistakes because they are ignorant to reality.
SueM (has to be… who else is that stupid?): “Clueless people in charge of protecting babies make spelling mistakes because they are ignorant to reality.”
Provide evidence for this claim, or admit that you lied.
Idiot.
Sue Misc, posing as “Get your facts straight” deliberately drops the important words, “or whatever” from my quote in order to misrepresent what I said. Which makes Sue Misc. a phony besides not belonging here because she doesn’t care and doesn’t know what it is to have and love an autistic child.
I asked you, “What makes you think that they don’t already know about my activities on the web, Sue M?” I also asked you if you would go talk to Buttar about getting some urine injections for your kids. I’m sure if you can’t afford him the mercury militia can raise some money for you to pay for all your fine work as a troll on this list. Just make sure he’s filtering your child’s urine and not someone else’s before he injects in your child. Don’t listen if he says his own urine is extra healing, I mean I wouldn’t believe anything he says myself. I don’t know if he is offering injections of his own urine, but one would think that that would be the next evolutionary step. Geiers went from no protocols to the utterly dangerous Lupron protocol. Remember, big Pharma drugs come from evil big Pharma or PhRMA and TAP pharm is profitting from the autism parents under the Geiers (rhymes with?) guys.
Camille said,
“Sue Misc, posing as “Get your facts straight†deliberately drops the important words, “or whatever†from my quote in order to misrepresent what I said.”
You’re the one that misrepresents by making statements like the following.
“I also asked you if you would go talk to Buttar about getting some urine injections for your kids. I’m sure if you can’t afford him the mercury militia can raise some money for you to pay for all your fine work as a troll on this list. Just make sure he’s filtering your child’s urine and not someone else’s before he injects in your child. Don’t listen if he says his own urine is extra healing, I mean I wouldn’t believe anything he says myself. I don’t know if he is offering injections of his own urine, but one would think that that would be the next evolutionary step.”
What is your sick infatuation with Dr. Buttar’s urine? Dr. Buttar is a an established physician that is accomplishing great things. You’re an unemployed loser at best, taking some college courses and you think you’re some hot shit but you’re not. You’re a very opinionated, loud mouth with way, way, way too much time on your hands.
Get out of your stinking, rotting computer chair and go get a real life!
Kevin,
I told you it’s not nice to lie. Don’t lie about me Kevin, it’s not nice. I mean really, you lie about me alot. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. What’s your fascination with lying about me. One time you dug out the name of the non-profit that operated the apartment complex I live in and posted it to my blog in the comments. You’ve been told straight several times what my employment is, but you insist on lying about me. It’s really strange. I have a wireless laptop I’m on the couch right now. It’s 11:10 California time, which makes it what 2:10 am your time? Why up so late Kevin Champagne?
!http://static.flickr.com/49/146731246_6a99d20f63_o.jpg!
This from back in the day when Buttar was selling td growth hormone, which is against the law now, I think. There’s some restriction on it now, you can’t advertise it or something. You can ask Buttar when you ask him about the effectiveness of urine injections. Will he be doing a study on that, there shouldn’t be anything stopping him from publishing on urine injections, right? He published on td growth hormone, as I remember, at least on the Internet. Good night, Kevin.
oooh, such a productive and relative conversation, but then I see Sue M. is doing what makes her happiest – trolling. And KC’s getting testy early in the morning. Sounds like someone needs a shot of urine or Lupron to make it all go away. The Geiers and Butter are lining up and all you have to do is open your wallet and drop your drawers.
Nothing to see here folks, move along now.
Camille wrote:
“Sue Misc, posing as “Get your facts straight†deliberately drops the important words, “or whatever†from my quote in order to misrepresent what I said”.
Sue M. did have the “or whatever” in originally (chances are you missed it). It actually doesn’t matter though because since she did not even mention Stoller by name nor did she mention anything about him (other than the connection with a spelling issue)… the “or whatever” was unimportant because your entire paragraph was a complete misrepresentation. Good job. Again not a big deal to me… other than the fact that it proves that you can’t be trusted.
Ms. Clark wrote:
” I also asked you if you would go talk to Buttar about getting some urine injections for your kids”.
– Unlike you, I don’t talk about things that I know nothing about (including this whole urine injections thing). It is quite clear that I CANNOT trust your comments about it considering your track record.
Camille wrote:
“troll on this list”
Considering this is coming from a lurker like you it’s pretty funny. I love the fact that you guys only figured out the spelling issue by reading about it on EoH… Good detective work.
As for your being asked to join in on a task force for MIND. That’s great (seriously). I hope that it goes well. I can only ask, after it is through and you come back to relay what went on, etc. please don’t misrepresent what people said. Don’t put words in their mouths. Don’t make foolish commentary about people which is innaccurate.
So how can you tell who’s a lurker and who’s not? Enquiring minds want to know.
_”Don’t make foolish commentary about people which is innaccurate.”_
More comedy gold from Sue :o)
Lurker Loo – I know where you come from and that’s about it unless I recognise your name or email address. I can nail you down to ISP, city and country.
I guess Sue doesn’t care that David Kirby and Autism Today lie about his whereabouts and steal money from unsuspecting parents who can ill afford to spend it. She and Kevin would much rather get involved in flame wars and get involved with spelling debates. Do you realize how idiotic that is? Of course not, because that would require you to not be idiots.
KC: “Get out of your stinking, rotting computer chair and go get a real life!”
And… *you*’re saying that?
So, Kevin, you don’t think that the pink and green tourmaline thing is just a lie? You think that they have a real effect, just like Trans D tropin that Buttar was selling at the time he gave that book review? His commentary is from a book on the power of crystals to affect health. If they are so effective, and without side effects, why isn’t he using them to cure autism? Obviously, pink and green tourmaline affect behavior, there should be some stone to make a kid act normal. If it isn’t a stone then, maybe the urine injections will do the trick and cure your child. We could ask David Kirby, but maybe he’s just taking the money and running right now. Almost no one in Canada wanted to hear him? Shocking! Sue M., call Buttar and ask him which crystals cure diabetes and celiac.
Mouse wrote:
“I guess Sue doesn’t care that David Kirby and Autism Today lie about his whereabouts and steal money from unsuspecting parents who can ill afford to spend it”.
– Is this really what happened, mousey? Maybe you should start getting ALL the FACTS before you start spouting. Ever hear of a miscommunication or an error or such. I’m sure that she’ll get her money back. If not, I agree with the person above who said that he/she would write to the Better Business Bureau (or Canadian equivalent) on this woman’s behalf.
“Maybe you should start getting ALL the FACTS before you start spouting.”
Pot, meet kettle.
KC – take a pill and get some sleep.
“Glad KC and Sue don’t know my address”
Kevin Champagne, why do you think I’m “Camille”? So you are threatening people whose adresses you know, including Ms. Clark. Are you threatening her? Are you threatening her property or family? Inquiring city and Federal investigators want to know.
Hey,
Sue Misc.! Guess what? I’ve been exposed to whooping cough. Several students at the high school I work at twice a week have confirmed cases and today, as I walked in the classroom the teachers’ aids were discussing what to do about the fact that they’d all been exposed. The teacher had just sent a coughing kid home from that classroom minutes before I got there.
Great! I was just playing with my friend’s child (who we call my grandchild, but he’s not actually my grandchild) on Saturday. I was carrying him around. He’s vaxed, but he’s got asthma and if he should happen to get whooping cough he’d end up in the hospital. It’s not likely that I personally have exposed him, but possible. My child has impaired breathing and could be seriously harmed by a bout of whooping cough. Xe’s vaxed, but you never know if the vaccine induced immunity is still good, which is why we need the heard to be as fully immunized as possible.
So, hopefully no babies die here in the next few weeks because some people were afraid of thimerosal containing vaccines or just vaccines period.
If there are deaths here, I’ll be sure to let you know. Still waiting for mumps to make it to this campus. Let’s hope it has been stopped by vaccinating the people around each new case. I’ll let you know if they decide I need to be vaccinated for pertussis since I’ve been exposed.
oops, “why we need the *herd* to be as fully immunized as possible.”
Truly scared wrote:
“Sue Misc.! Guess what? I’ve been exposed to whooping cough”.
– That’s horrible. Devastating. Hopefully you’ll be ok.
“He’s vaxed, but he’s got asthma and if he should happen to get whooping cough he’d end up in the hospital”.
– I’m sure that he will be ok, but I’ll keep him in my thoughts.
“Xe’s vaxed, but you never know if the vaccine induced immunity is still good, which is why we need the heard to be as fully immunized as possible”.
– Why don’t you just vaccinate him/her every year then, just to be safe.
“Still waiting for mumps to make it to this campus. Let’s hope it has been stopped by vaccinating the people around each new case”.
– Many of the people who are coming down with “mumps” are properly immunized. Of course, it’s still all “our fault”, right? A friend of mine’s child, fully immunized for chicken pox, was just diagnosed with “atypical chicken pox”. She has pox all over her. It must be “our fault”. She still tested as having no antibodies to the chicken pox, so they want her to be re-vaccinated next week. She’ll still be pox covered at that point. Sounds like good medical advice, right? Not.
“I’ll let you know if they decide I need to be vaccinated for pertussis since I’ve been exposed”.
– Why don’t you just do it to be safe? No big deal, right?
Why is Buttar divorced now if he and his wife couldn’t stay away from each other so long as they were wearing their pink and green tourmaline necklaces? He was so sure that the stones had mysterious powers. You people trust this man?
I heard that if you sit under a specially constructed pyramid, it can cure autism.
If you give birth to a child under rose quartz crystals suspended from a ginko tree he’ll never be autistic. It helps if you give him a name like: Moondrift Splash, place crystals around his crib and feed him organic violet petals. If Rashid Buttar would put his green tourmaline necklace back on and his ex wife would put the pink tourmaline necklace back on, they could get back together and live happily ever after. I bet they are mad that the Buttar baby wasn’t birthed under rose quartz hanging from a ginko tree.
“Many of the people who are coming down with “mumps†are properly immunized. Of course, it’s still all “our faultâ€, right?”
Yes. A small portion of those who got the mumps vaccine were not made immune by it, so they are vulnerable to the disease. However, that small portion of people would be basically protected by the herd if everyone else that could be vaccinated was. That’s why in highly vaccinated communities outbreaks tend to be small and self-limiting.
When large pockets of people are not vaccinated, they can more easily spread the disease around, which means that more of the non-responders will come in contact with it. In the case of mumps, a larger percentage of those who are unvaccinated contracted the disease, and then are able to transmit it to other areas where they are more likely to come into contact with non-responders and those unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons.
Mouse wrote:
“When large pockets of people are not vaccinated, they can more easily spread the disease around, which means that more of the non-responders will come in contact with it”.
– Right. I get it. The problem is that with all these bogus recommendations (Hep B, now Hep A, Prevnar, Chicken Pox, unnecessary boosters)… you get people who question the need for these. The unanswered questions about thimerosal, etc. The powers to be have no one to blame but themselves. Sorry. How many people have died or been seriously injured from this latest Mumps issue? Do you know?
I have a friend on another list that I am on. She got a medical exemption for her children for many required vaccinations because her child has type 1 diabetes and another child with Crohn’s (sp?) disease. You better hope that that doesn’t catch on… It had everyone on that list talking about discussing it with their doctors. We’ll see.
Sue, you are the QUEEN of straw man arguments. Someone points out that a particular person who represents your organization and who you apparently are friends with is an abusive ass, and all you can do is insult the person who pointed it out? What, because the person who pointed it out isn’t perfect, that TOTALLY EXCUSES everything this other person does and/or says? Making threats, posting personal information, attacking actual autistics, that’s all FINE AND DANDY, HOORAY, because you can misdirect (or try) people to supposedly look somewhere else?
This is POOR LOGIC, Sue. Go take a course in logical reasoning and argument, and maybe then you’ll be able to argue effectively. This straw man crap is getting really, really old.
Someone: J.B. Handley has been abusive to me and others.
Sue: So what? You’re no picnic! (Translation: I’m not going to address what you ACTUALLY said, but try to direct your attention elsewhere).
Wait, I know! If you slide with a straw man down a slippery slope ad hominem, it’ll cure autism right?
Camille,
Get over yourself. The point is that emotions and attacks go both ways. You are not Mother Theresa. Period. So what do you want me to do, scold Kevin for his comments while ignoring the fact that you were an ass to him? Sorry. Doesn’t work that way.
Camille wrote:
“Someone points out that a particular person who represents your organization and who you apparently are friends with is an abusive ass, and all you can do is insult the person who pointed it out”?
– What organization are you referring to? I am not a part of any organization nor am I “friends” with any of the people who happen to have some of the core beliefs as I do. You can deal with that yourself. Don’t come running to me when your feelings get hurt. I’m not responsible for anyone else but myself.
Hate to break this to you, but…
I’M NOT CAMILLE! There are plenty of people in the world who can see through your logical fallacies, you know. We can’t possibly ALL be Camille.
Straw Man wrote:
“I’M NOT CAMILLE”!
– Hate to break it to you but I’m not Sue.
Wow, it’s been a long time since I have posted here. Sad to see that things have degraded so much. Folks, we are all parents, we also all disagree!! This is an issue that hits us all very deeply. Why is any of this name calling productive?
Sad in SD
– Hate to break it to you but I’m not Sue.
You just post exactly like her using the same verbal style and sentence structure.
The powers to be have no one to blame but themselves. Sorry. How many people have died or been seriously injured from this latest Mumps issue? Do you know?
So in other words – if mumps doesn’t kill you or permanently disables you, no big deal? Hey, if it makes you sterile somewhere down the line (which we don’t know yet) that’s no reason to subject yourself to the theoretical and unproven risks of vaccines.
It’s all about getting “natural” immunity, I guess.
Hello Mousey,
You write:
“So in other words – if mumps doesn’t kill you or permanently disables you, no big deal”?
– Those aren’t my words, of course. The point is that we are being duped. Mumps would suck. The MMR also sucks because it can cause damage. Where do we go from here? I don’t know… that’s why I blame it on the “powers to be”… come clean now, address the issues and restore some credibility. What’s so tough about that?
What an incredibly ignorant woman you are. I hope that Kev will consider banning you from this site permanently. That will free up hours of your time for trolling elsewhere. I’m sure that GR is paying you handsomely for this service and you’ll want to keep your hours up.
“I’m sure that GR is paying you handsomely for this service and you’ll want to keep your hours up”.
– Not a dime 😦
“What an incredibly ignorant woman you are”.
– Thank You.
“I hope that Kev will consider banning you from this site permanently”.
– That’s up to Kev. I think he might be concerned that the amounts of hits he gets would be severly affected. Either way, it would be fine.
_”I think he might be concerned that the amounts of hits he gets would be severly affected”_
Read the JB post again. Hits mean nothing. Especially all from one person.
I’m loth to ban someone when they haven’t been actively offensive or attempted to break the system but I am getting bored of this same tedious run around from you Sue. You’ve stopped commenting on the subject matter almost completely. I don’t want to ban you but please try and reign in this sudden taste for utter irrelevancy you’ve developed.
I’d also ask people to cut out logging in and out under various usernames. Its getting impossible to track a thread. If you want to comment anonymously, just do as anonimouse does an assume a single identity please – my database server will love you for it 😉
Maybe if we keep saying it enough, mercury will magically BE SAFE……
……………build your institutions….group homes and prisons……….
we have a generation of very disabled kids who will very soon be dependent, costly, dangerous adults
Thank you Mr Stoller for addressing the points so well.
No-one is stating mercury is safe. I challenge you to find where I’ve said this. However, there’s nothing especially persuasive to indicate mercury in the form of thiomersal causes autism.
I also take issue with your utter misrepresentation of people who don’t agree with you. Why do you find it necessary to make up things about people you don’t agree with?
I hope that wasn’t really Dr. Stoller and, if it was, I hope he doesn’t advise parents of newly-diagnosed autistic kids that their children face a future in an institution, group home or prison.
Anne Said: I hope that wasn’t really Dr. Stoller and, if it was, I hope he doesn’t advise parents of newly-diagnosed autistic kids that their children face a future in an institution, group home or prison.
Of course not, HBOT will save them from that fate. Have you read Stoller’s mini-Minamata masquerade?