….and maybe that should be enough, but many times it isn’t.
I’ll restart.
I have three kids. One is autistic, one is NT and one (god help us all) is a teenager.
Today, this beautiful Spring morning, one of my kids is off with xyr Grandad who is a game keeper. Another one has just come up to me with a lid on xyr head and said ‘hat!’. Another one has just said ‘sore’ after banging their leg.
Socialisation, imagination and communicative language. Which one is the autie? I think you’d be surprised.
Another person who might be surprised is the jackass-in-office that Mothersvox had to contend with recently. This guy says:
No, he was emphatic, she’s not autistic, he said. And it certainly wouldn’t make sense as an educational category for her. She’s not completely withdrawn, he said. She’s interested in what’s going on around her.
Uh-oh, sounds like someone’s not been around too many autistic people. As Mothersvox went on to say:
At that point I was thinking, Geez, all the autistic kids I know and read about are interested in what’s going on around them, and are engaged at some level with their families. I’m thinking, what sort of autistic kids do you know that are completely withdrawn. I don’t know any autistic kids like that . . .
And she’s right. But even if she _wasn’t_ – even if some autistic kids were completely withdrawn – being completely withdrawn is _not a diagnostic symptom of autism_ . It shocks me to hear of a doctor who thinks otherwise.
This idiot went on to rip the Vox family even more by using words like ‘psychosis’ and intimating that toileting decisions that _helped_ were bad choices.
OK, now. I wonder which one of my kids this Doc would pick as the autie?
I like Doctors by and large. They’re people who care in my experience. I link to a few Docs in my blogroll. NHS Blog Doc, Orac, Flea – some Hub members are Docs too. I don’t want to generalise and bash docs but it seems to be a regular failing of a lot of Docs that we’ve seen and who I’ve read about on many other parents blogs that they want to move beyond diagnosing into backseat parenting. This only seems to be the case in instances of special needs kids. I’ve yet to hear of a case of an NT kids parents being told that their toilet training decisions for their kids are holding back their child. My message to doctors who do not have autistic kids or who are not on the spectrum themselves is – thank you for your medical opinion/diagnosis but butt out of my parenting choices m’kay? Also, for jackasses such as the above – learning the diagnostic criteria might be a good thing before telling people their kids are/are not on the spectrum.
Docs (well, most) are good for medical matters. Parents are good for parental advice. Autistic people are good for advice about autism. If I ever met an autistic doctor with autistic kids then that’s the Doc I want.
Left Brain Right Brain 
…I don’t want to generalise and bash docs but it seems to be a regular failing of a lot of Docs that we’ve seen and who I’ve read about on many other parents blogs that they want to move beyond diagnosing into backseat parenting. …
I think that this is even more widespread on this side of the pond. And it happens in other cases than just when you have a special needs kid.
The farther away you are from the socio-economic circle of the doctor, the more they are liable to give you advice that has nothing to do with doctoring.
And however you personally feel on the issues, I don’t think it is the doctor’s place to give advice about world peace, global warming, and whether you own a firearm.
p.s. Thanks for the link!
It may not be your “doctor’s” place, but it is your fellow human being’s place.
If a person is doing something injurious to themselves or others, out of ignorance or delusion, I consider it my duty as a human being to educate them as to the harm they are doing themselves.
If a delusional person’s house is on fire, and they are attempting to put it out with gasoline, I consider it my human duty to tell them their notions are mistaken particularly if the fire is in danger of spreading to my neighbor’s house, or to my house.
If a mob were in the process of burning a person to death because they thought she was a witch, I would consider it my human duty to try and stop them.
An important cause of death in children is firearms, including homicide, accident and suicide. Part of “child-proofing” a house, is ensuring that children do not have access to firearms. In my opinion, for a pediatrician to not mention that would be malpractice.
In the not to distant future, a leading cause of death will be climate change. I think that people who are ignoring global warming are exactly like those who ignored the dangers of smoking because of the delusion that they were indestructible.
_”If a person is doing something injurious to themselves or others, out of ignorance or delusion, I consider it my duty as a human being to educate them as to the harm they are doing themselves.”_
You would first of course ascertain that what they were doing _was_ injurious right?
_”If a delusional person’s house is on fire, and they are attempting to put it out with gasoline, I consider it my human duty to tell them their notions are mistaken particularly if the fire is in danger of spreading to my neighbor’s house, or to my house.”_
Because that example is about as far removed from what I was talking about as its possible to get.
Actually I was agreeing with you Kev. But perhaps I could have been less obscure.
If a particular method of toilet training is “working”, I see no harm at all.
I was thinking more about how some world “leaders” think that the way to bring “peace” is to treat everyone who doesn’t agree with them brutally. A little empathic self-reflection would reveal that approach to be woo. If I were treated brutally would I stop all resistance and become peaceful? Why should I expect my opponent to do so? Are they that much more “rational” than I am?
The gasoline analogy was more geared to peace and war in international relations. Where unfortunately, conditions in Iraq and elsewhere continue to deteriorate.
No – its my fault. I’m having the day from hell. Google hate me. My ISP hates me. ASP.NET hates me.
Basically, the interweb hates me.
Sorry – put it down to a bad mood and general grumpy old man crap.
Hi Kev
I agree with you and you do not know how much in this topic.
In my particular experience, from a different culture- doctors were so awful in their understanding of what autism is- and the way to present future- that what was told to us the diagnosis day is irrepetible because of the due consideration to autistic people reading; first and to my son-also.
One of the most recent published manuscripts in the topic presents how- one more such as the theory of mind and others-many of the supposed deficits in autism are different than previously thought or considered.
“Do the eyes have it? Inferring mental States from animated faces in autism”:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17381780&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
but it seems that many doctors ( majority in my experience BUT selected exceptions) think about Autism as Cancer, with ABA as the only alternative ( even sleeping-60 hours a week) and as an awful sentence of degradation, presenting parents the worst situation in the imagination.
I do think that preconcepts are very difficult to change, in ASD or in almost every field. The continuous research of the published science, the needed actualization of the science status in the topic (ALL topics in ASD) is not a common situation. When you consult it seems that the focus is always what your child can´t do, can´t understand, can´t reach than what he/she can do/undersand/reach and even be better than other NT children of the same age.
AS with many other topics, beyond the background, what is important for me is the human being the doctor is. Commitment, respect and consideration- FIRST to my son, AND after to us, his parents-, being humble, be prone to hear and to undestand-not as strategy-, being prone to learn and to research, being prone to look at my son as the human being unique and irrepetible he is are the qualities I hope in a doctor…and are very very very difficult to find; unfortunately.
An important cause of death in children is firearms, including homicide, accident and suicide. Part of “child-proofing†a house, is ensuring that children do not have access to firearms. In my opinion, for a pediatrician to not mention that would be malpractice.
Agreed!
But for a pediatrician who has never owned a firearm and has never researched anything about proper storage of firearms to blindly advocate that parents not own firearms steps over a line. It substitutes the doctors own internal prejudices for scientific evidence and objective opinion.
To move away from the explosive analogy I used, many doctors will make recommendations on things like co-sleeping (babies sleeping in the same bed as parents) and circumcision based more on their own personal views, rather than on available literature.
I am happy that my sons were dx as AS and HFA later (earlier in their lives we were just trying to keep them alive). It seems through simply parenting them as children we love…engaging them, reading to them, doing with them, socializing them, looking into their eyes, loving them…we did all the right things simply because they are children…not focusing on their autism.
As a parent of multiple children with multiple special needs, I have dealt with a variety of doctors. I find that I must always ask the right questions…seek the answers…be the advocate.
Do you use the term autie only in reference to those higher functioning autistic persons who themselves use and improve of that label?
Or do you use it also in reference to lower functioning autistic pesons with limited understanding of language and who have not approved of that usage?
Do you use the term lower functioning autistic with the approval of those you are talking about and who have not approved that usage?
What does NT mean?
NT means Neurotypical, K. In this context, it means “not on the autism spectrum”.
Sometimes when we use NT we mean people who don’t have any significant mental or neurological problem, when it’s used that way (as I understand it) the point is that autistics have something in common with the neurologically atypical–people with epilepsy, dyslexia, ADHD, depression, mania, OCD, anxiety, delusions, tic disorders and so forth.
One thing we tend to have in common is that we are treated badly by others for the reason that we are not the same as “typical” people. And yes, we non-neurotypicals don’t always treat other non-neurotypicals as well as we should.
Autistics did not invent the word. Amanda Baggs could probably clarify this much better than I can.
Hi
K, sorry, I only saw your question now.
Thank you for answering Friend in California.
Yes, neurotypical or NT is used for me as non in the autism spectrum.
But, Mrs Clark, I did not try to give any other intention than to stablish that neurology is different than typical, such as it is considered typical by doctors in their office; that is with certain developmental achievements found at certain age and with certain skills showed at certain circunstances and in certain environment or test.
Many times, the words are used but the intention of the word is different depending on the person who use it (and their beliefs or ideas about a certain issue).
By no means I tried to give any connotation more than non-autistic or not in the autism spectrum. I apologize if it was misunderstood.
Hi Maria,
I wasn’t upset at anyone, just clarifying or adding to what *Friend in California* had written. I think he was answering a question about what “NT” meant when Kev wrote his son is “NT”.
Sorry, Mrs Clark
Because I wrote this
“can´t reach than what he/she can do/unders(t)and/reach and even be better than other NT children of the same age”, I (mis) understood that the question of K was for me.
Thanks
🙂 Actually, K’s question might have been for you, but I thought it was for Kevin, or maybe for all of us who use “NT” around the hub blogs.
“I’ve yet to hear of a case of an NT kids parents being told that their toilet training decisions for their kids are holding back their child.”
Kids with “special needs” have it worse, but there are none who really escape the claws of the medical professional with parenting advice. I’ve heard of midwives telling mothers that their lack of breastfeeding will ruin their child’s future, health visitors doomongering about fussy eaters…
Not dissing medics on the whole (I’d have to stop talking to most of my family), but there are some that you just want to tell to shut up!