Autism Omnibus and David Kirby

14 Jun

And so, as we approach the end of week one of the vaccine trial, its been truly fascinating to read (albeit a day behind my US counterparts) the ongoing proceedings.

One of the things that fascinated me was the culling of the ‘expert witness’ list. Before Monday – the start of the trial – the expert list comprised:

Jim Adams PhD
Harland Austin D. Sc.
David S Baskin MD
Jeffrey Bradstreet M.D.
Richard Carlton Deth PhD
Mark Geier MD
M. Eric Gershwin MD
Phillippe Grandjean, Ph.D.
Sander Greenland, Dr. PH
Boyd E. Hayley, Ph D
Robert Hirsch PhD
Arthur Krigsman MD
Cathy A Lally, Master P.H.
Mary Megson, MD
Elizabeth Mumper MD
Andrew J. Wakefield, MB, BS, FRCS, FRCPath

And on Monday, the people left from this list were:

Arthur Krigsman MD.

Amazing. I can only surmise that the others were considered as liabilities. Certainly when one considers the stupidity of Haley, Adams, Geier and Wakefield then this looks like a good move. They would’ve been crucified on cross examination. It comes to something when only one person from the original list is considered a safe bet and then he is also crucified on cross examination.

Q. Doctor, your C.V. states that you’re a clinical assistant professor at New York University.
Is that correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Are you currently on staff there?

A. Correct.

Q. When was the last time you taught a class at NYU?

A. I haven’t taught there.

Q. You’ve never taught a class at NYU?

A. I’m on staff there.

Q. Are you salaried?

A. From NYU?

Q. Yes.

A. No.

Q. Have you ever been salaried at NYU?

A. No

I listened closely to the Petitioners opening statement and was bewildered. I’ll quote the ACHAMP blog:

Mr. Powers argued that over the last five years, since the Omnibus Autism Proceeding commenced, the Respondent in the Proceeding, with the Department of Justice acting as its counsel, had been standing “shoulder to shoulder” with industry and that it had placed many obstacles in Petitioners’ way. He noted obstacles of a short statute of limitations; very limited rights of discovery to gain necessary background information to build a case, particularly discovery from the Vaccine Safety Datalink; and selective use of materials from MMR litigation in the United Kingdom that was inaccessible to Petitioners; among other uncooperative tactics.

Not only are most of these things not _quite_ as painted, it seemed to me that Powers was presenting a long litany of excuses to be presented when the case fails. He’s simply fuelling the conspiracy theorist fire.

Also stoking the flames of that fire is one David Kirby. He made a recent HuffPo blog entry that berated critics for inflating the possibilities of what might happen if the parents win:

Critics of the autism claims also contend that a victory in court by any of the families would drive panicked parents away from immunizing their children at all, resulting in new epidemics of infectious disease and lots of sick and dying youngsters…..Nobody wants to see measles, or mumps, or polio sweep the country. But I don’t think that will happen.

Yeah? Its already happening you idiot.

In the course of 10 days, officials confirmed four pertussis cases, including the hospitalization of one child to treat respiratory symptoms. All of the cases afflicted children under 5 years old, and one in an infant just a couple of days old, according to Ravalli County Public Health Nurse Judy Griffin…..There have been more than 450 cases of pertussis in Montana so far this year, according to the Department of Health and Human Services. The infection rate is much higher than average years, when about 30 cases are reported….”Parents should check immunization records and make sure they’re up to date,” Nurse Judy Griffin said.

Ravalli Republic.

(Columbia) The state health department said yesterday that an infant has died from whooping cough. It is the first death reported in South Carolina from the disease in nearly three years….The health agency said it’s important children receive pertussis vaccinations on schedule.

WLTX News.

A whooping cough epidemic has hit Deschutes County. Health officials say that in the past six weeks, 18 cases of pertussis have been identified in the county. In all of 2004, there were only two cases of pertussis in Deschutes County.


An increase in cases of the highly contagious whooping cough is prompting state health officials to urge stricter compliance with childhood immunization schedules….Cases have increased annually from 22 statewide in 1996 to 120 last year…Oklahoma’s childhood immunization levels continue to lag behind those nationally, officials said.

RedNova News

Kids are dying again. And in some areas of the US the disease causing those deaths is at epidemic (real epidemic as oppose to autism epidemic) proportions. And thats just one disease that vaccination removed the sting from for many years. In my country (UK) we’ve recently had a Mumps epidemic due to Andrew Wakefield’s unfounded scaremongering regarding the MMR vaccine. And worse:

Take-up rates of the jab dropped throughout the UK, down to less than 70% in some areas, after a small-scale study published in The Lancet in 1998 by Dr Andrew Wakefield suggested a link to autism.


In 2004, mumps cases in the England and Wales rose from 4,204 in 2003 to 16,436 in 2004, nearly a four-fold increase.

And in the first month of 2005, there were nearly 5,000 cases. Most were among young adults born before 1988 and who would, therefore, not have been offered MMR as a child. In the second paper, Dr Ravindra Gupta, from London’s Guy’s and St Thomas’, working with colleagues from King’s College London, found cases have also occurring in very young children who would have been eligible for the MMR – measles, mumps and rubella – vaccine…..Dr Gupta (…) said uptake of MMR among two-year-olds in the UK fell from around 92% in early 1995 to around 80% in 2003/4.


In October 2004, experts predicted that due to falling vaccination uptake, the UK would start to suffer from ‘small outbreaks’:

The medical newspaper Pulse has warned that there could be a measles epidemic this winter on a scale last seen in the 1960s. It said that lowering levels of immunity meant as many as 12% of children and 20% of adults could be hospitalised if infected by measles.


And now, this year, 18 months after this warning, we have the UK’s first measles induced fatality in 14 years.

The 13-year-old who died last month lived in a travellers’ community. It is thought that he had a weakened immune system; he was being treated for a lung condition. The boy died of an infection of the central nervous system caused by a reaction to the measles virus. The Health Protection Agency described his death as shocking.


The Times also says that of the 72 reported measles cases last month, 9 required hospitalisation – this tallies almost exactly with the 2004 prediction of a hospitalisation rate of 12%.

Kirby has his own ‘dire warnings’ about what might happen if the parents lose:

And then there is the Middle East. Osama, for one, has a very extended family. We are exporting thimerosal containing vaccines to many Muslim nations. Some vaccines contain not only mercury, but products derived from pigs. I don’t need to tell you where I am going with this train of thought. You already know.

Actually, I do. You’re trying to instil fear of Muslims into people to support your meaningless rhetoric you nasty little racist.

64 Responses to “Autism Omnibus and David Kirby”

  1. Diane June 17, 2007 at 12:46 #

    “Comparing Megan to poor Madeleine is a sick act by you. Completely reprehensible.”

    That is not what I did. I compared parent to parent. But you, once again, do not read carefully.

    My last statement.

  2. Grace June 17, 2007 at 18:09 #

    I have seen numerous newspaper articles on the mumps outbreaks explaining that the populations affected have been immunized but that it appears we now need to add boosters, as was realized with tetanus, because it doesn’t last.

    I have yet to see any articles attributing these outbreaks to parents who don’t vaccinate, but then I am in the US, perhaps in the UK things are different. Perhaps the British have superior titers… 😉

  3. Kev June 17, 2007 at 18:46 #

    _”Kev has decided not to treat his daughter, to leave her as an autistic individual because that is who she is. Doesn’t bode too well for her future.”_

    You mean, I’ve decided not to treat her with the more extreme biomed stuff like chelation, lupron etc? In that you would be correct. As she is not dead, poisoned, been hospitalised yet, I think that bodes very well for her future.

    _”OH…and we should all forward information about poor little (no sarcasm here) Madeleine McCann whose parents felt it more important to go out to dinner that to watch their children. Here’s the information…..Her parents are like you. Taking their own interests and desires over the needs of their kids. Unfortunately, we all know the ending to that very sad story. God help you all.”_

    Did you really just say that? Incredible. I cannot believe you are using that story to score points.

  4. HN June 17, 2007 at 20:12 #

    Grace, it is happening with measles in Eugene, Or:

    What is really bad is that the infected man was told to stay HOME… but then decided to go out to some clubs, where he possibly infected more people. Prompting the possibility of legally inforced quarenteen:

  5. Grace June 18, 2007 at 08:46 #

    Hmm, yeah, seems an incredibly self-centered schmuck at best.

    Well, looks like we might be able to blame the Brits for the mumps, lol –

    Vaccination has not yet solved our problems with measles outbreaks either

    Meanwhile, is David Kirby a bigot for thinking the Islamists would use the vaccine issue to stir other Muslims against us given the opportunity? Please – these are guys who strap bombs on their own children & promise them heaven just to kill some of the “infidels” (that’s pretty much anyone who’s not Muslim in their world). They’ll use anything they can get.

  6. Kev June 18, 2007 at 16:01 #

    Grace, you can indeed blame us for Mumps. In turn you can blame the source – Andrew Wakefield.

    Vaccination is never going top help to _treat_ an _outbreak_ – thats not what it is for.

    Are you saying that all muslims are people who ‘strap bombs to their own children’? If so, you are also a nasty little racist bigot. Seems something of a recurring theme amongst the anti-vax.

  7. HN June 18, 2007 at 19:15 #

    Then there was the case of measles imported to Indiana from Romania… and then spread to a church group who were mostly UNvaccinated. One of those persons required 6 days of ventilator support in a hospital:

    By the way, no one has ever said that vaccination is 100% effective. That is why there is this concept of “herd immunity”. Something that is being eroded because of pure greed.

    Thank you, Andy Wakefield, for making us all aware how dangerous the MMR was… while all the time pocketing almost a million US dollars from a lawyer to come up with those results. Of course, one child in the UK has died from measles, and countless others have suffered from it (including a few who were permanently disabled).

    Then there are all the wonderful vultures circling the parents with vaccine scares: Geier, Byers, Olmsted and the not so fearless: Kirby.

  8. Phil June 18, 2007 at 23:23 #

    That is not what I did. I compared parent to parent. But you, once again, do not read carefully.

    I knew exactly what you meant, Diane, [removed – no need for that Phil – Kev]! And my comment stands. (Thanks for the additional reflection on it, Kev!)

    My last statement.

    Scared away by the truth. How very typical of the cowards who insist that biomeds make ASD children NT.

  9. Grace June 18, 2007 at 23:56 #

    Grace, you can indeed blame us for Mumps. In turn you can blame the source – Andrew Wakefield.

    No, dear, I blame the paternalistic blighters in charge for the way they have mishandled things. The whole attitude of ‘trust us, we know what’s good for you’ is the major source of damage because anyone with a brain cell knows historically that we cannot always trust them and they do not always know what is good for us so why in the world should we do either now? Because they say so? LOL.

    A good friend of mine was just threatened by her pedi that if she did not let him vax her kids, he refused to treat them anymore. So, despite her misgivings and family history, she went ahead & let him do it. Her preschooler developed inflammation in his thighs and arthritic type pain so severe that he spent two days on the couch crying and refusing to move. Herd immunity does not mean vaccinating kids whose family history indicates a strong likelihood of bad reactions. The dr’s attitude is ‘no big deal just alt acetaminophen and ibuprofen’. Well, acetaminophen depletes the anti-oxidant glutathione along with stimulating some pro-inflammatory factors – and despite this (relatively) newfound knowledge, the medicos still keep recommending this stuff in situations where the immune system is already over-stimulated.

    Vaccination is never going top help to treat an outbreak – thats not what it is for.
    Agreed – wasn’t my suggestion or my comment.

    Are you saying that all muslims are people who ‘strap bombs to their own children’? If so, you are also a nasty little racist bigot. Seems something of a recurring theme amongst the anti-vax.
    No, I guess you were reading in a hurry. I said “the Islamists would use the vaccine issue to stir other Muslims against us given the opportunity?” Not sure where I said I was anti-vax either – just anti-lemming. But thanks for the vitriol all the same – this blog is not real conducive to productive discussion is it? Shame. Been fun.

  10. HN June 19, 2007 at 01:13 #

    Grace said “Herd immunity does not mean vaccinating kids whose family history indicates a strong likelihood of bad reactions. ”

    Yes it does. If there is a DOCUMENTED history of bad reactions, then the child has a real true medical reason not to vaccinate. Then the child will have to depend on herd immunity.

    My oldest was not vaccinated for pertussis due to a medical issue… therefore he had to depend on herd immunity. The two children described in this article had a real documented reason to not get the MMR, so when herd immunity was compromised so was their health — in more ways than a few days of painful leg:

  11. HN June 19, 2007 at 01:24 #

    Also, if your friend’s peditrician told her not to come back without the vaccines… then fine. The sMothering forum seem to find plenty of docs who do not vax kids (granted, some of them are naturapaths with less training than a nurse, but they do exist).

    Plus, there is no law that says you have to take your healthy kids in for regular check ups. Granted, some schools want to vaccine records, but there are schools that don’t (like this one in Boulder, CO: ).

  12. Kev June 19, 2007 at 06:00 #

    Grace – you got a bad case of misplaced aggression there toots ;o)

    You want to blame everyone for a mumps epidemic except the person who actually is the most responsible for it? LOL

    You also want to ‘blame’ vaccinations for not preventing outbreaks? But at the same time ‘thats not what you mean’?LOL.

    You further think Islamists – who are not who David Kirby referred to by the way – are capable of stirring up ‘other muslims’. LOL. What religion are you Grace? Catholic? Do the IRA speak for you? Are you Palastinian? Do Hamas speak for you?

    Every religion/group has it extremists Grace. Only nasty little racists like you equate the extremist with the whole.

    Truth is toots – you’re not too good at colouring within the lines. If you could see how monumentally silly you look, you might appreciate why it is the vaccine/autism case is going down in flames right now.

  13. David N. Andrews M. Ed. (Distinction) June 19, 2007 at 10:11 #

    “Don’t say it Andrews :-)”

    Say what? 😛

    Mind you… he’s made such a **** of himself by now… where could he run to? LoL

  14. Grace June 19, 2007 at 23:22 #

    You’re right, Kev! I’ve looked back over my posts & clearly I have been a monumentally silly nasty little racist full of misplaced aggression, but now your board has converted me and I will henceforth mend my ways! (BTW, in my ignorance & stupidity I had always thought that a winky face meant one was joking – I guess I’m just stupid all across the board — and off of it)

    You go, guy! Changing hearts – and minds – one insult at a time…

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