I occasionally get emails or blog comments along the general lines of:
Why do you do this? These people [Wakefield, DAN, whomever] are trying to help autistic kids!
The (il)logic train is very simple to these people: X listened to their ideas about vaccines and autism, X tries out never-seen-before-treatments on autistic patients therefore X is a hero. When X gets examined with disdain from mainstream medicine X becomes a martyr.
There is a bizarre disconnect at work here. Somehow we have progressed from an idea that scientific enquiry adds to the general body of scientific knowledge to the idea that its just about OK to do anything to patients irrespective of what’s actually ‘wrong’ with them in order to advance a poorly supported hypothesis.
Here’s why this matters to me and why Andrew Wakefield is a prime example of all that has gone bad in the small but very vocal subset of autism parents who believe MMR/thiomersal/vaccines in general causes/triggers autism.
First and foremost is the basic injury done to the scientific objective truth. This is, I agree, an entirely abstract concept but it has implications in our every day real-world lives. Science is what brought us the nice cubes of ice in our whisky and also brought us the Nuclear bomb. Whatever we personally think of these results, science has prevailed in both cases. The _truth_ has prevailed.
The people I and others refer to as the Mercury Militia (referring to the anti-vaccine/autism/parent activists) are not interested in the truth. This is not an opinion, it simply is. From the National Autism Associations deliberate and outright lies about what science has revealed about autism, to their supporters attempts to silence the debate via threats of violence and encompassing Lenny Schafer’s admission that there is not enough science to support the idea of a vaccine hypthesis and their only chance of ‘winning’ is via a legal route with vastly lower standards of evidentiray proof as well as David Kirby’s refusal to fess up to the terms of the hypothesis he himself set.
What people need to grasp is that this basic dishonesty permeates the entire autism/vaccine hypothesis. Time after time, when presented with more attempts to establish the truth, they never fail to act dishonestly and lie to support their beliefs.
As far as scientific objectivity and a search for the _actual_ truth is concerned – forget it. This is a set of people who are simply uninterested. If a story/hypothesis emerges that doesn’t embrace vaccines as causative agents then they will attack it. And what they will attack it with is mostly lies.
I have a question for them and people who believe and trust them – and I know they read this blog. The question is this: how good do you think the quality of any information/data is that emerges from the mouths of people who lie, evade and threaten? How good do you think the science is that originates from people who plagiarise other peoples work? How accurate do you think advocacy groups that lie to the media about what they believe are?
At some point there has to be a time when even self-denial cannot support these people. As we have seen, recent attempts to coerce the media have resulted in humiliating climbdown after climbdown. How far can denial continue to power the majority of the new soccer-mom, middle-class powered anti-vaccine movement of the naughty noughties?
Let’s take an example that touches on the title of this blog – Andrew Wakefield. His hypothesis regarding MMR and autism was discussed at length during the recent Autism Omnibus hearings (Cedillo, June 2007).
Andrew Wakefield is seen as a pretty much a demigod amongst the Mercury Militia. His word is taken on pure faith. Why? Because he agrees with certain parents that the MMR jab caused/triggered their child’s autism. The basic hypothesis is as follows:
1) Child is injected with MMR
2) Measles virus (MV) travels to gut causing various gastro issues
3) MV carries on travelling to the brain causing autism symptoms
ergo – MMR causes autism with associated gastro issues.
The whole hypothesis stands or falls on finding vaccine strain MV in the guts of autistic children. Wakefield (and others) claim they have. However, the facts tell a different story.
Wakefield (and all others) used a technique called PCR to ‘find’ MV in their subjects. During the afore-referenced Cedillo hearing, Dr Stephen Bustin gave testimony. Bustin is possibly _the_ world expert on PCR. Not only does Bustin use PCR every day, he has 14 papers in the peer reviewed literature on PCR, over 8 book chapters and is personally the author of the A to Z of Quantitative PCR. which is considered ‘the bible’ of PCR. One of his papers has been cited over 1,000 times. Another has been cited over 500 times. He both organises and speaks at international PCR conferences.
Basically, when it comes to PCR, the technique Wakefield (and others) used to ‘find’ MV – this is the guy.
NB – this whole section of evidence I blogged extensively, including quotes. Please read for more detail.
Bustin was first and foremost concerned that:
1) The technique that utilised PCR and employed by Wakefield (and others) was essentially useless. No controls were used. This is a serious scientific omission and makes comparing the data accurately impossible.
2) The technique failed to outline procedures for dealing with contamination of data
3) There were mismatched and misrepresented data designs
These items raise very grave questions over the _methodology_ used. The next set of concerns reveal the full extent of the scientific shambles of the entire MMR/autism industry.
This is a vital point to understand before we discuss these things. It is vital that we remember that, aside from one unpublished poster presentation (Walker 2006), _all_ , I repeat _all_ science that has claimed to find vaccine strain MV in the guts of autistic patients used the same lab to get its results – Unigentics, the lab of Professor John O’Leary. It is also vital to remember that Stephen Bustin did not just examine for afar. He spent over 1,5000 hours in the O’Leary lab before coming to his conclusions.
His conclusions were devastating.
1) The O’Leary lab had failed to take necessary steps. This omission made it impossible they were detecting MV.
2) The O’Leary lab was contaminated.
3) It was the contamination that O’Leary’s lab was detecting, not MV. Its worth quoting Bustin at this point:
So all of this evidence suggests very, very strongly that what they are detecting is DNA and not RNA. Because measles virus doesn’t exist as a DNA molecule in nature, they cannot be detecting measles virus RNA. They are detecting a contaminant.
It cannot be any clearer. According to the the man who is the recognised world expert on the technique that *all published science claiming to find MV in the guts of autistic kids* lab utilised, it is simply not possible that this lab could’ve detected MV. Without MV, there is no MMR/autism hypothesis.
And what is the response of Wakefield’s supporters to all this? I will quote John Stone, who fancies himself the cool calm voice of the MMR branch of the autism/antivax movement. When presented with Bustin’s testimony, he said:
I do not think there is much to be gained by arguing about the contents of a test tube….
This tells us all we need to know about the levels of denial that operate in this arena. Stone resorts to saying that the Cedillo case was not settled yet, which is true. However he evades the point that Bustin’s testimony is not dependant on legal justification. It is dependant on scientific accuracy. Given that it is *documented by O’Leary’s own lab procedure* that they omitted key parts of the process necessary to establish the presence of MV, I really don’t know what else there is to say on the matter.
Secondly is the effect all this anti-vaccination rhetoric has on the health and safety of public citizens. News stories that are accumulating started circulating a year or so ago on dropping immunisation rates and rising deaths and injury from vaccine-preventable illness:
In the course of 10 days, officials confirmed four pertussis cases, including the hospitalization of one child to treat respiratory symptoms. All of the cases afflicted children under 5 years old, and one in an infant just a couple of days old, according to Ravalli County Public Health Nurse Judy Griffin…..There have been more than 450 cases of pertussis in Montana so far this year, according to the Department of Health and Human Services. The infection rate is much higher than average years, when about 30 cases are reported….â€Parents should check immunization records and make sure they’re up to date,†Nurse Judy Griffin said.
(Columbia) The state health department said yesterday that an infant has died from whooping cough. It is the first death reported in South Carolina from the disease in nearly three years….The health agency said it’s important children receive pertussis vaccinations on schedule.
A whooping cough epidemic has hit Deschutes County. Health officials say that in the past six weeks, 18 cases of pertussis have been identified in the county. In all of 2004, there were only two cases of pertussis in Deschutes County.
An increase in cases of the highly contagious whooping cough is prompting state health officials to urge stricter compliance with childhood immunization schedules….Cases have increased annually from 22 statewide in 1996 to 120 last year…Oklahoma’s childhood immunization levels continue to lag behind those nationally, officials said.
Kids are dying again. And in some areas of the US the disease causing those deaths is at epidemic (real epidemic as oppose to autism epidemic) proportions. And thats just one disease that vaccination removed the sting from for many years. In my country (UK) we’ve recently had a Mumps epidemic.
Vaccine uptake rates of this vaccine in the UK have fallen to amongst the lowest in Europe:
Take-up rates of the jab dropped throughout the UK, down to less than 70% in some areas, after a small-scale study published in The Lancet in 1998 by Dr Andrew Wakefield suggested a link to autism.
In 2004, mumps cases in the England and Wales rose from 4,204 in 2003 to 16,436 in 2004, nearly a four-fold increase.
And in the first month of 2005, there were nearly 5,000 cases. Most were among young adults born before 1988 and who would, therefore, not have been offered MMR as a child. In the second paper, Dr Ravindra Gupta, from London’s Guy’s and St Thomas’, working with colleagues from King’s College London, found cases have also occurring in very young children who would have been eligible for the MMR – measles, mumps and rubella – vaccine…..Dr Gupta (…) said uptake of MMR among two-year-olds in the UK fell from around 92% in early 1995 to around 80% in 2003/4.
In October 2004, experts predicted that due to falling vaccination uptake, the UK would start to suffer from ‘small outbreaks’:
The medical newspaper Pulse has warned that there could be a measles epidemic this winter on a scale last seen in the 1960s. It said that lowering levels of immunity meant as many as 12% of children and 20% of adults could be hospitalised if infected by measles.
And now, last year, 18 months after these warnings, we have the UK’s first measles induced fatality in 14 years.
The 13-year-old who died last month lived in a travellers’ community. It is thought that he had a weakened immune system; he was being treated for a lung condition. The boy died of an infection of the central nervous system caused by a reaction to the measles virus. The Health Protection Agency described his death as shocking.
The Times also says that of the 72 reported measles cases in that last month, 9 required hospitalisation – this tallies almost exactly with the 2004 prediction of a hospitalisation rate of 12%.
This is real evidence of harm. Never forget it can be traced back to a man with absolutely no evidence at all to support the science of his claims.
Thirdly is the effect all of this has on autism and autistic people like my daughter. The vaccine induced blind panic that the people behind these hypotheses and their media agents at the NAA, SafeMinds, Treating Autism and Generation Rescue have done their best to inculcate is having a toll on autistic people. Here’s a passage from an email I received a few months ago:
…when I said he was autistic, they told me I shouldn’t bring him to a school, that vaccines had made him ill and that their kids could catch that illness….after all, these women reasoned that if it [autism] could be caused by vaccines, it could be caught and passed on to other kids….
This is frightening. Autism as a condition has a lot of stigma to deal with already. The fact is that any hypothesis that has gone on now for over 10 years without any scientific support, as the vaccine/autism one has, needs to shut up and move on. No good can come of creating more stigma for no benefit.
In 2004, the BBC discussed a report from the Institute of Child Health, the National Autistic Society and the Parents’ Autism Campaign for Education that looked at the state of autism research. One of its conclusions was that:
….the row over a possible link with the MMR jab has over-shadowed the fact that little is known about the behavioural disorder….
This has led to a situation wherein:
…It showed almost 60% of UK autism research only looks into the symptoms, while just 22% is dedicated to the causes, 8% to possible interventions and only 5% to the effect of family history.
So, a dwindling 8% of all autism research fundings looks into interventions. The marketing of the MMR hypothesis has meant that this pathetic 8% is all that autistic people can expect in terms of educational research, programs for adults – basically if it will have some tangible impact on the lives of autistic people then it comes out of this 8%.
This then, is the legacy of the autism/vaccine hypothesis and its supporters. Bad for the truth, bad for science, bad for public health and bad for autistic people.
Left Brain Right Brain 
Right, and there’s one ouf the the SF Bay Area doing basically the same thing. The problem with those studies is that autism is not diagnosed uniformly across regions, and especially when you compare urban vs. rural areas. That’s not a minor flaw in those studies.
See this analysis of mine for additional detail:
http://autismnaturalvariation.blogspot.com/2006/07/on-relation-to-environmental.html
See also Lewandowski (2006) for a rebuttal of Palmer et al.
Anon – Your points about mercury in general are good fodder for debate. My focus however has always been narrow – does MMR cause autism? Does thiomersal in vaccines cause autism? Does a combination of both cause autism?
The science, as it stands right now, conclusively demonstrates ‘no’ in each case. Does this mean mercury is a good thing? No. Does it mean that vaccines don’t induce sometimes serious side effects? No. No medical process is risk free as far as I know.
The take home points for me are these:
1) There is no science to suggest mercury/MMR causes autism
2) When thiomersal ceased to be used in a mainstream setting and when MMR takeup dropped by over 10%, autism cases carried on at the same rate
3) Autism symptoms and mercury poisoning symptoms do not resemble each other
4) The *only* evidence for the presence of measles in the gut of autistic patients comes from a contaminated lab that could not possibly be detecting measles RNA.
5) The claims of ‘recovered’ kids are highly questionable. I managed to get my own daughter listed as a recovered kid merely by describing her progress. The lesson from that is that chelated kids and my kid are equally ‘recovered’. And in fact, when one examines the claims of recovery on a site like Generation Rescue and applies the ‘recovery’ criteria as losing the label of autism then 5% of those kids met that standard. 95% don’t. That’s about the same rate as the Bernard Rimland noted phenomena of ‘spontaneous recovery’.
Regan, i agree completely with you . I hope people don’t think that i am trying to blame someone. I’m just putting my idea out there that the correlation between mercury and autism (and autoimmune disorder) should not be dismissed due to showing thimerosal has decreased but autism increased.
I hate to bring this up, but lets say hypothetically that it was proven that exposure to mercury, or another environmental toxin, caused autism . What if this exposure is permanent? That means that no matter how much “Chelation” is done it will never reverse the symptoms, because the neuronal death is permanent. Basically meaning that it is a low form of irreversable brain damage, or in the case of children, halting of the development of neurons in the brain.
What would be needed is preventive medicine. So perhaps before pregnancy it might be a good idea to look into taking glutathione or whatever else can be done to limit exposure.
How the heck would that be proven though, if we can’t do studies in humans? But if you look at the study above it does show that glutathione prevents mercury retention. Should a study on mice be enough?
Or is the only option to have entire populations take preventive supplements in hopes of protection from these things? Then do an analysis, like the one in denmark, years later to see if the prevalance of autism decreases?
But that doesn’t explain the fact that not everyone gets autism from mercury exposure, as in the Denmark case or other cited articles. Maybe it is as simple as ,”not everyone is the same”? What if some children do have more glutatione and it is expelling the mercury fast enough to prevent accumulation and cause harm?
Anyone interested in seeing the articles i have on mercury and autoimmune disorders? I wanted to ask this because some scientists think that autism is an autoimmune disorder.
I have many autoimmune disorders, and have had them since birth. That is how i came across mercury, autism and autoimmune disorders.
Dan –
Your points are understood (which means you can stop re-stating them over and over again), but I hope you also can acknowledge that you are engaging in speculation at this point? Much of what you are specualting on has already been hypothesized and tested. To date, scientific results have not been favorable to any of the mercury/autism hypotheses being valid.
For many of the reasons you are citing, it is tempting to begin to believe that they are somehow related. This does not excuse one, however, from acknowledging that one’s views are not scientifically supported.
You are continuing to cite studies that may indeed show something, but do not show that mercury exposure results in the development of autism. For example, the “neuronal death” issue. I agree that losing neurons is probably a bad thing, but will not then make the leap that it results in autism. I observe an autistic person every day and see nothing that would indicate (in your words, and they are fightin’ words) “…that it is a low form of irreversable brain damage.” My son is not brain damaged – he is autistic. In many ways, Dan, he is showing better judgment and clarity of thought at age 5 than you are in your adulthood.
Here is a masters thesis looking at the same sort of Study that Palmer did. This one is in Louisiana
“LINKS BETWEEN ENVIRONMENTAL MERCURY,
SPECIAL EDUCATION, AND AUTISM IN LOUISIANA”
In the conclusions section:
“In conclusion, with Louisiana facing higher risks to mercury consumption as a result of culturally related fish consumption, and high rates of special educational needs; the relationship between mercury and developmental disorders should be identified. While the confounding variables of this study did not define a strong general relationship linking mercury to developmental disorders; it did provide evidence that a relationship exists between some socioeconomic variables and some developmental disorders and opened up questions to be answered in future research. Efforts in future studies should focus on defining the association between mercury and our children’s health.”
Read that carefully–confouding variables mean that no conclusion on autism and mercury can be drawn. However, a link between socioeconomic variables and some DD’s is observed.
Therefore…we need to do more research on mercury.
It doesn’t follow from the data. This is the same we see all over–“there isn’t data to support a link, so we need to find more data”.
Matt
Steve D, sorry wrong choice of words. I should have said damage to the brain.
I just meant that it seems like a developmental disorder, which it is, caused by neuronal death by mercury, which does happen in other disorders.
Please except my apology on the wrong turn of words there.
Why would neuronal death cause larger than average brains, as are found consistently in autism? Autistics also have more connections among neurons than non autistic brains.
There goes the neural death hypothesis, I s’pose…
@ Anon:
_”I wanted to ask this because some scientists think that autism is an autoimmune disorder.”_
Which scientists? Would you please list their names? And do you mean actual ‘autoimmune’ … or immune-mediated or immune dysfunction or immune dysregulaton? Thanks.
From reading all the Cedillo´s transcripts, comments of the Cedillo´s transcripts, your comments ( and others) I have the sensation of the use of scientific tools to answer a politically relevant questions- such as in terms of vaccination policies- but not using the scientific method of progression of questions (IMHO).
For example
Now, Is it the wrong doing in the PCR the ONLY explanation of the positive/negative findings? Have all the alternatives explored to reach this, that is the Last one of the several possibilities when contradictory results are present, not the First one?
and Why Dr O´Leary did not testify? I read interpretations of his work, criticisms of his work and not what he thinks of his work.
Now, Is it the wrong doing in the PCR the ONLY explanation of the positive/negative findings?
No, but (1) consider Occam’s Razon, (2) consider Chadwick’s testimony (all results negative), and (3) replication has been attempted, doing it the right way, and has failed.
It requires a lot of faith to keep entertaining the hypothesis after all that.
Hi Joseph
What hypothesis are you refering to assignable to “my faith”, please? and What hypothesis do you think I believe in and
How do you know that I was talking about a certian hypothesis? You are guessing in advance.
(1) consider Occam’s Razon,
only if you know what are you searching for…
(2) consider Chadwick’s testimony (all results negative),
only if ALL the confounders were taken into account and correctly addressed- I have near 30 questions to Dr Chadwick that I will never do because of obvious reasons
and (3) replication has been attempted, doing it the right way, and has failed
replication of something that was considering was known NOT to be present and always searching for the same.
Why are you going to find something if what is present you are not searching for, for example?
mcguffin, no I am referring to autoimmune, like rheumatoid arthritis, chron’s diseas, multiple sclerosis, etc.
I don’t have a specific reference. It was told to me by someone i know who has a son with autism. I have not yet looked for any articles regarding autism as an autoimmune disorder. I have only found articles that show mercury causes autoimmune disorders.
I don’t have to read your mind, Maria, to realize that you want to continue to believe there’s some sort of association between MMR and autism.
A better way to approach the question would be: Why should we entertain this association at all? Previously the reason was the findings by Wakefield. After all that has been shown to be bogus (and likely fraudulent even), all reasons have vanished. At the moment, there’s no more reason to entertain the association between MMR and autism than there is to entertain the association between Diet Dr. Pepper and autism. Of course, do let us know if *new* evidence comes to light.
I have not yet looked for any articles regarding autism as an autoimmune disorder.
I think there’s one paper that associates autism with autoimmune disorders in relatives. This is quite a bit different to asserting that autism is an autoimmune disorder.
It would be better perhaps 🙂
What I have always told you and others is that there could be- to confirm- genetic/epigenetic mechanisms that could make some subgroup of (undetected) autistic children prone to negative reactions to the particular MMR combination- and to many other things.
In fact it will continue the research in the immune system of autistics and for other side in the effect of vaccines in the immune system through research and pharmacovigilance. Therfore time will tell, how and what- and probably if there is an alternative explanation.
For example
The Journal of Infectious Diseases 2007;196:541-549
Measles Virus Vaccine Attenuation: Suboptimal Infection of Lymphatic Tissue and Tropism Alteration
Cristian Condack, Jean-Charles Grivel, Patricia Devaux, Leonid Margolis, and Roberto Cattaneo
Volume 196(2007), pages 541 – 549
Tropism is the ability of a virus to replicate in particular cells or tissues – is controlled partly by the route of infection but largely by the interaction of a virus attachment protein (V.A.P.) with a specific receptor molecule on the surface of a cell, and has considerable effect on pathogenesis. Many V.A.P.’s and virus receptors are now known.
If you want to ask in terms of causation ( think I told you many many times) the answer would be no at an epidemiological levels- even if the flaws and problems with the epi are considered.
Genetic epi would be another thing because first important genetic aspects-and epigenetics should be detected to adverse reactions to vaccines- the work is planned/being done by the CDC- I think.
Who’s asserting that autism is an autoimmune disorder? I’m just saying that someone I know told me that some scientist thought autism could be an autoimmune disorder.
I heard this and thought that you people might have heard the same thing. This is why i brought it up.
Anon: “Can you guys show me the studies the conclude that mercury does not cause autism in humans?”
Me: “There will be no study to prove that Thimerosal does not cause autism because it’s impossible to prove a negative.
Anon: “Who wants to prove a negative? I’m talking about proving a positive.”
Games?
Me: “If one reads the in vitro papers and the animal model papers that were cited two points shine through: 1) It is folly to compare different species of mercury in generating a point about the behavior of Thimerosal in vivo;”
Anon:”Why is it a “folly to compare different species of mercury in generating a point about the behavior of Thimerosal in vivoâ€.”
Anon previously answered xself: “The data showing significant kinetic differences in tissue distribution and metabolism of mercury species challenge the assumption that ethyl mercury is toxicologically identical to methyl mercury.“
Anon: _“ [S]ome scientists think that autism is an autoimmune disorder.â€
Me: “[D]o you mean actual ‘autoimmune’?”
Anon: _”… I am referring to autoimmune, like rheumatoid arthritis, chron’s diseas, multiple sclerosis, etc.”_
then …
Anon: _”Who’s asserting that autism is an autoimmune disorder? “_
About autoimmunity and autism; I think that the manuscript of Ashwood van der Water
Click to access vandewater.pdf
is a good review on the issue.
There are recent manuscripts on MBP/GFAP autoantibodies in autism
J Autism Dev Disord. 2007 Jun 22;
Are There Enhanced MBP Autoantibodies in Autism?Libbey JE,et al and
J Autism Dev Disord. 2007 Jun 20;
How Relevant are GFAP Autoantibodies in Autism and Tourette Syndrome?Kirkman NJ et al.
and
Brain Behav Immun. 2007 Mar;21(3):351-7. Epub 2006 Oct 6. Links
Maternal antibrain antibodies in autism.Zimmerman AW, et al
From this
“The identification of specific serum antibodies in mothers of children with autism that recognize prenatally expressed brain antigens suggests that these autoantibodies could cross the placenta and alter fetal brain development”
I hope you do not mind Kev that I include the whole abstract, it is only one
When Anon mentioned I remembered that I have read a manuscript telling this.
It was this:
Curr Neurovasc Res. 2006 May;3(2):149-57.
Autoantibodies associated with psychiatric disorders.Ortona et al
“This review describes and discusses the possible role of autoantibodies related to the psychiatric manifestations in autoimmune diseases, autoantibodies related to the psychiatric disorders present in post-streptococcal diseases, celiac disease, chronic fatigue syndrome and substance abuse, and autoantibodies related to schizophrenia and autism, disorders now considered of autoimmune origin.”
Off topic a bit. It’s so cute. I think that this dad’s experience is really not so different than what parents of autistic kids deal with, maybe there’s more highs and more lows, but we love our kids, don’t we?
Let’s try a human face on the science.
Is this accurate?
“HI doug and laurie,
My son had a colonoscopy and endoscopy in March 2000, and we were
asked if we wanted to send a sample to this research effort of
wakefields….no charge discussed. 8 months later, having totally
forgotten about it and never having received any results, we received
a bill from Unigenetics for 1000 irish pounds. Still, no results.
My feeling is, if this were not a research project but a bonafide lab
test, it would not take 8 months for a result and I am questioning
the invoice. You may want to get these ambiguities cleared up before
you participate. Also, as far as I know, once the determination is
made regarding the positive presence of measles, there isn’t anywhere
to go to treat….so, beyond aiding research efforts….what’s the
point? I would have thought twice, had i known the $$$ involved.”
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/13888.html
How about this? $1200 is pricey for unvalidated test of no discernible clinical utility (there’s no treatment for measles).
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/13882.html
O’Leary didn’t deign to explain what his test(s) meant, if anything, to parents, did he? Why would this distraught mother believe her “son’s body is suffused with the measles virus”?
http://www.cyclingforums.com/showthread.php?t=268880
Did somebody forget to mention the reason O’Leary’s lab was selected by Richard Barr was their reputation for ” low copy gene detection”?
http://briandeer.com/mmr/oleary-statement.htm
Why …
Why were these parents charged GBP 230 for O’Leary’s test – this would be the test(s) he and Unigenetics billed the LSC for $800,000 to perform – why are claimants being charged personally at the same time Barr & O’Leary are charging for tests provided to claimants?
“Sheila and Ian have now paid GBP 230 for Professor John O’Leary, a world authority on autism and possible links to the MMR vaccine, to carry out the new DNA test which identifies sections of the measles virus gene, at the Unigenetics Research Laboratory in Dublin.”
Did O’Leary actually report finding “measles DNA” in this child’s blood specimen?
“Mrs Kyle said yesterday: “Prof O’Leary found persistent measles virus in Angus’s blood and has identified the virus as the MMR strain. This is very real and tangible clinical evidence.
“It has established a direct link between the DNA of the virus in the vaccine and the virus in our son’s blood.”
“We have been granted legal aid and are preparing a case against the manufacturers of the vaccine.”
Boy’s parents to pursue landmark legal action in the courts against vaccine makers. Meg Milne, Sunday Express, p.15. 2002-08-25.
So? A thief who manages to get distraught parents to tell the media “measles DNA” was detected in their child’s blood or CSF?
What does he do for an encore?
Hi guys it’s joe get ready for your eyes to hurt
If wakefield is so bad why is katie wrights son doing so
much better. What we would like the ND’s to under stand is we are not dealing with quirky children were
talking about kids with very bad gut disorders. With
pain you can’t imagine not being able to poop for day’s.
But as we were told at childrens hospital it’s all behavior
they have nothing to offer us except miralax. So we tried
it at the dose they gave us to use. My son was rushing the kitchen getting water every five minutes till we noticed it was out of hand. He was drinking gallons of water in a
day he would rush the kitchen pushing us out of the way.
we told my cousin she is a nurse she informed us he
could get water poisoning. We told the pedi. gastro she suggested more miralax I told her we are already going
behind him with a shovel. You see modern medicine has
nothing to offer our sick kids. But then you have hero’s like DR. Wakefield DR. Geier other’s I can’t remerber them all they are true scientist in the truest since.
Not afraid to go against a system tha’t is wrong. And
to think they are making more money fighting main
stream medcine is laughable if it weren’t such a tragedy. What is wrong with our vaccines can be summed up
by what DR. Peter Fletcher former Chief Scientific
Officer at the Department of Health UK. “The refusal by governments to
evaluate the risks properly will make this one of Âthe greatest
scandals in medical history.”
But he added: “There are very powerful people in positions of great
authority who have staked their reputations on the safety of MMR and
they are willing to do almost anything to protect themselves.” ( My thought’s ) To the extent of even poisoning children
these people make sadam look good !
The people that work in children’s vaccines
are ravenous wolves in sheep’s clothing
I should have put some of the people, Some
are in it for the right reasons.
Back to katie she was interveiwed by david kirby
http://www.autismmedia.org/media15.html
please watch this brave mothers interveiw
she said it was so not that complicated she
was saying her and her husband went to
cleveland clinic had gene test and all that.
To make a long story short she said DR. krigsman
was able to help her child were main stream medicine
could not or would not. Now who is this krigsman
he works with that bad man that trying with all his
might to get an out of controll vaccine program
to understand the damage done to these kids guts.
But like you they don’t listen while a lot of kids like
my son colton, katies son christian, live with terrible
pain and top notch pedi. gastros. say it”s all in there
head it’s just behavior problems. Thats like main
stream medicine telling the ND’S your normal you
just think your different but you who has aspbergers
know you are truely different. and how difficult life
can be for some of you. You know this life lesson
has given me a glimse into your world and problems.
As different than the normal majority and I can say
with all sincerety im truly sorry for how the world
treats you for I can’t understand everything you
endure but the stairs at your child when he start
acting up angers you. My son has started spitting
everywhere now that really gets you stares and
when he spits on someone it really gets interesting
but some are really good people and after the initial
shock they will say it”s OK I understand ….
I got the impression from what Katie Wright said about her son is that he had nothing to eat but bottles of milk, for maybe weeks or months on end. That’s child abuse, in my opinion. This kid has nothing but bottles of milk for a long time and she wonders why he has gut problems????
Maybe it’s because daddy works for a big multi-million dollar milk company? Huh?
So what was the cure?? Well she doesn’t say it, but presumably Krigsman got him on to a diet that contained more than bottles of milk, and then he prescribed some very heavy duty prescriptions for the kid (who knows if something milder would have helped). Never mind that Krigsman lied under oath in the Omnibus. Yes he did. Perjury, I think it’s called.
What about dearie’s other doctor the homeopath who prescribes nosodes?
Joe – I’m going to say the same to you as I said to Anon – I/we are talking about vaccines causing autism. Gastro issues are not only not being debated here, they are also not relevant to autism particularly – unless you know of a study that provides a strong correlation between gastric issues and autism…?
If you and others have found good docs who will alleviate the gastric issues your kids have then more power to you. However, Andrew Wakefield is not a good doc and certainly not a hero. You should also know that ‘ND’ is nothing to do with Aspergers Syndrome but to do with neurological difference. My daughter is profoundly/severely/classically autistic.
Peter Fletcher by the way, has no more science to offer. I wrote about his empty words quite awhile ago.
The worlds tax dollars at work
I wrote this to a radio station a while back….
The attorney for HHS opening statement. There will be no place for junk science in this hearing speaking of the on
going vaccine hearings you were talking about on your
radio show
It seems they have nothing but junk science
the VSD population base studies has been
looked at by the NIEHS part of the NIH
stated verstratton work seriously flawed
and the stuff done in other country’s as bad
I guess they cant use this one ! I think lieing about the
numbers going up when Denmark took thimerosal out
of their own vaccines this email proves they lied.
I believe this qualifies for junk science
“But the incidence and prevalence are still decreasing in 2001”.
Bet the CDC did not want us to see that E:mail
Notice I sent this to the GAO office after listening she promised to get back to me seemed very interested
to date never heard from her again…
This is worse than treason and Watergate pales in comparison with the accidental poisoning of a generation of American children… Then when they took it out of the
children’s vaccines they put it back even earlier in pregnant women an children 6 mos to 5 yrs of age
this is discused in detail in a E:mail I sent you titled
GIHON of ARGENTINA thimerosal MSDS sheet
PS Thimerosal was removed from pet vaccines in I
believe in 1990 reason to dangerous for pets but it
remained in children’s vaccines till 2002
do you see a pattern of negligence ?
Joe ————————- ft worth
Proof of the crooks they are : Note where he talks about
how they the CDC used magic marker before releasing
through the freedom of information act the information
that was disputing the numbers going up in denmark
This is just a excerpt please read the rest @
http://www.vaproject.org/yazbak/cdc-spinach-autism.htm
But more importantly, a review of e-mails exchanged between the Danish researchers and the CDC reveals that the statement “From 1991 until 2000 the incidence increased and continued to rise after the removal of thimerosal from vaccines, including increases among children born after the discontinuation of thimerosal” may not have been true.
In an e-mail on 11/13/2002 at 09:24, “co-author” Marlene B. Lauritsen informed Drs. Madsen, Thorsen and Schendel of the CDC:
“But the incidence and prevalence are still decreasing in 2001”.
The sentences, before and after that unequivocal statement, were blackened with a magic marker before they were released through the Freedom of Information Act. (Exhibit II)
and Christian Wright is every bit as autistic as he ever was. he might feel better and he might be older and know more but he’s autistic. and that’s something his mom and dad and grandparents can not/will not stand for.
joe, i can understand why people wouldn’t want to answer your emails.
I saw a video of Christian Hildebrand, which Katie showed as proof of his “normalcy”, he was holding his newborn brother. Katie weeped as this video was shown and claimed that his demeanor was normal and how he behaved prior to his descent into autism by vaccines. I am going to say this as gently as possible, this young boy was autistic in that “normal” video. He clearly displayed echolalia and had an averted gaze, IIRC. He was autistic before any vaccine incident. Moreover, many children have gastric issues; tummy issues are like the top second or so reason kids go to the doctor. Drinking the amount of cows milk that child supposedly drank would’ve even made a calf ill.
What’s more, Katie’s late to the party and has no grasp of the science. She wants parents of ‘older kids’ (she means like age 10) to “step aside” so she can put forth re-packaged pseudo-science that we’re all vastly familiar with? Such hubris. We’ve seen this so many times. This time next year, it’ll be some other blonde thinking he/she is the maverick trailblazer. Rollens; Blaxill; Sallie; Handley; Katie — they just keep recycling ’em.
kev, is it posible that we are talking about mercury poisoning in the new cases not classic autism.
My son is spitting every where one sign of heavy
metal toxicity, spinning as he walks every few feet
in one study they had to stop the study because the
dogs want stop spinning in circles, The study was on
thimerosal, mercury effects the speach, the gait,
what you eat, how you interact with others, stimming,
mood swings, ie crying, seconds later laughing, eye
sight, every thing thats wrong my child . . .
he has tested three times the level of testostarone
as nt child we know testostarone pulls in mercury.
Most of the late on set autism kids have high testostarone levels it’s not inconceivable these
kids have metal toxicity. My son also has the inability
to make glutathion labcore is who we used he is
clinically metal toxic to a point we were given a questionair if we have old paint chipping isnt it
amazing that we will worry about lead something
that 1000 times less toxic than mercury. In vaccines
they were talking about bolus doses not daily allowance
this was discused in simpsonwood and the merk memo.
And we don’t ever look at the two salts mixed the synergy
effect which was discused at the simpsonwood meeting
If high testostarone levels cause neuron cell death
courtesy of yale univ.
If ethylmercury causes neuron cell death
If aluminum causes neuron cell death
lab in canada
If there is a synergy effect the two salt mixed
mercury, aluminum, killing factor x 10
Is there any wonder why these kids are sick
you state and the cdc states, that were just
saying that we dont think it can cause autism
but can mercury cause mercury poisoning the
answer to that is YES I guess it’s how you define
the symptoms of autism theres no doubt my son
is clinically metal toxic and his labs show it so
should he be given treatments for his ailment
or antipsycotic drugs.
Excerpts, you can read the rest as you scroll
down
publication may 1997 page from the cdc updated 2005
Pregnant women and their fetuses are especially vulnerable to the toxic effects of metallic mercury because it readily passes from the placenta to the fetus. Mercury may accumulate in higher concentrations in the unborn baby than in the mother
——————————————————————
Children exposed to metallic mercury for long periods may have trouble learning in school.
—————————————————————————–
When mercury levels in the body are extremely high, “chelation” therapy is necessary. Chelation therapy involves putting a chemical into the bloodstream; the chemical combines with the mercury to aid in its removal from the body.
This is the MSDS sheet for the product thimerosal note
This is actually on the MSDS sheet ( (pregnant women
should not be exposed to the product ) ) wonder if the
CDC has seen this
Joe ———————- TX
sensitisation with allergic manifestions in predisposed
persons AKA maybe peanut allergies, ect . . .
kev are you part of quack watch asking because of your logo at top
Kev and his wife designed that logo. It’s based on the ghostbusters movie logo. I have my own duck logo (no quack zone) that I made myself and put on my blog. I’m not associated with quackwatch, but I do admire their work. Joe have you read the Cedillo transcripts? Do you realize that the PSC never referred to the MSDS in trying to prove autism causes immune problems? Do you realize that the PSC couldn’t begin to show anything like a connection between autism and mercury of any form and MMR? I suggest you get those transcripts and start reading them all if you haven’t yet. There is also audio available for all 12 days.
Frieda Royal Free III you say that joe, i can understand why people wouldn’t want to answer your emails.
but my delima is this my child was talking interacting
he would look me in the face and i would scrunch up
my face and breath through my nose real loud and he
would copy me so there goe’s the theory these kids are
born with out mimic genes my wife was young i was young no autism in any of our familys my wife is not a frig mother but we did vaccinate at the injection site a knott
the size of a mans fist what do you want to bet that he’s
alergic to thimerosal it was so hot it would burn you to touch it read up on childrens vaccines they have aluminum in them mercury and aluminum mix causes
heat you think that could have caused his three
encephalopathy’s or could it be both mercury and the damn MMR the next day at the dinner table three
encephalopathy’s only one time, every thing he ate
changed started banging his head spinning every
including himself started losing speach not looking at us in the eye any more all right after vaccines it would be impossible for as many parents after vaccine to be coincedence as is out there that has the same story
remember we do not vacc. on a certain date for
everybody it’s almost right after vaccines that people notice the changes we waited over a month later than
the due time for his vaccines
Frieda Royal Free III you say that joe, i can understand why people wouldn’t want to answer your emails.
but my delima is this my child was talking interacting
he would look me in the face and i would scrunch up
my face and breath through my nose real loud and he
would copy me so there goe’s the theory these kids are
born with out mimic genes my wife was young i was young no autism in any of our familys my wife is not a frig mother but we did vaccinate at the injection site a knott
the size of a mans fist what do you want to bet that he’s
alergic to thimerosal it was so hot it would burn you to touch it read up on childrens vaccines they have aluminum in them mercury and aluminum mix causes
heat you think that could have caused his three
encephalopathy’s or could it be both mercury and the damn MMR the next day at the dinner table three
encephalopathy’s only one time, every thing he ate
changed started banging his head spinning every
including himself started losing speach not looking at us in the eye any more all right after vaccines it would be impossible for as many parents after vaccine to be coincedence as is out there that has the same story
remember we do not vacc. on a certain date for
everybody it’s almost right after vaccines that people notice the changes we waited over a month later than
the due time for his vaccines
Ms Clark what is the psc please tell me
good night all
joe —————————- tx
But then you have hero’s like DR. Wakefield DR. Geier
I will never understand why some people are able to continue to consider proven liars and charlatans heroes.
I have rarely seen that many unsubstantiated claims put together, Joe, but let me address just this one:
you state and the cdc states, that were just
saying that we dont think it can cause autism
but can mercury cause mercury poisoning the
answer to that is YES
That’s not exactly true. Did you know that about 5 micrograms of mercury enter your body every day? That’s really not enough to cause mercury poisoning. The dose matters.
but my delima is this my child was talking interacting
he would look me in the face and i would scrunch up
my face and breath through my nose real loud and he
would copy me so there goe’s the theory these kids are
born with out mimic genes
Some kids regress. Get over it. No one really knows why they regress, but it is associated with genetic syndromes. If a kid was completely normal (although they mostly weren’t when you go and actually look at videos) and he regresses, this is *not* proof of an environmental trigger.
You won’t find a magical cure or anything of the sort, Joe, and especially not if you focus on what are clearly dead end hypotheses. Seriously, you’re wasting your time.
Sorry for the late hit, but I’ve been trying to get some work done.
As for the “connection” between mercury and autism:
We have ample data showing that mercury is a neurotoxin, not to mention not being exactly a treat for the rest of the body. What we don’t have is data showing that it can cause autism.
This is a critical point. There are millions of neurotoxins – we could absorb all of Kev’s bandwith just listing them. If something could cause autism simply by being a neurotoxin, there would be a lot more autism.
The problem with mercury is two-fold: first, we have a rather long history of dealing with mercury toxicity and in the over two centuries of recorded case histories of mercury poisoning, none have ever looked anything like autism. Oh yes, I know that Bernard et al wrote a paper (in Medical Hypotheses) comparing the two, but none of the authors had ever seen a case of mercury poisoning. People who have report that there are marked differences.
The second problem is that the epidemiology doesn’t fit. If we are to argue that the “rise in autism” was due to thiomersal-containing vaccines, then we should have seen a decline in the US by now (and declines in Denmark, Canada and the UK before that). If, on the other hand, we argue that environmental exposure to mercury is to blame, then we have to square the rise in reported autism cases with the fact that mercury contamination of the environment has been declining since the late 1960’s.
Of course, we could always look somewhere else for the “cause” of the “autism epidemic”. How about greater awareness and shifting diagnostic criteria?
Prometheus
Matt, Kev – what I’m trying to say is that it is wrong to put the emphasis on contamination rather than poor controls or failure to reverse transcribe. I just think it is a bit misleading to be talking about O’Leary’s results being due to contamination, when we have no evidence his lab as any more contaminated than anyone else’s (although I was somewhat disturbed by the presence of a plasmid room next to the lab) – by definition, if you fail to RT, anything you amplify must be contamination in RT-PCR. All the other concerns about unequal heating across the block etc is pretty minor stuff.
I found out an interesting thing today. My mother who is RH negative, or whatever it is, had these shots when she was pregnant with me and my younger brother, but not my older brother. When she had my older brother the doctor told her that if she didn’t get the shot that her next kids could be “blue” babies. I was born in 1974, when the RH shot had thimerosal in it. The shot had thimerosal in it up until 2001, correct? Does anyone know the half life of mercury? I heard it was up to 18 years, but am not sure.
I have multiple autoimmune diseases and my brother has ADHD. My older brother is very healthy. This seems like to much of a correlation to call it coincidence.
Is it possible that thimerosal/mercury just doesn’t cause autism in everyone, but causes something to happen in susceptable genes? I mean there was that study above that showed some mice developed autoimmune disorders from mercury while others did not, and those that did had some kind of different genotype. And they weren’t using toxic doses. Just enough to create an autoimmune reaction.
My autoimmune disorders have come and gone. I was born with them but then they settled down around 5 years old. They started back up again around 13, and went away again around 18 and started up again around 22 and have been bad ever since. I wonder if amalgams can cause autoimmune reaction. I’ve seen articles about that.. Do you guys want to see the articles?
I’ve had chronic hives since 1997. That same year i had a bridge put in to replace two teeth that got knocked out at a hockey game. I never made the connection because i never thought it was possible to be allergic to amalgam. I just recently looked this up. There have been cases of hives from mercury exposure, i’m not talking about large doses either, i mean small doses. When the doctor put the bridge in he left a small piece of something in my gums. The piece would hurt, burn and itch all the time. It wasn’t bad enough for me to do anything about it though. And for the past 10 years i haven’t had dental insurancurance, so i never could do anything about it anyways. I do now and i am going to the dentist tomorrow.
Another interesting thing happened to me recently. 2 weeks ago i broke a tooth and exposed the amalgam filling. I broke one of the big molars in the back. That same day i was very sick right after it happened. This is what caused me to start researching amalgams, and incidentally mercury. The next day i went to the emergency room because i couldn’t stand up, i was nauseious, dizzy and couldn’t speak well. At the time the doctors thought that this was from some medicine i was on. I told them i had broke a tooth but they didn’t think it was that. Ever since this happened i have had my hives the worse they have been in years. And a strong metallic taste in my mouth.
Remember i think its the exposure to mercury, even in small doses, that triggers an autoimmune reaction. And deep down i feel that autism is an autoimmune reaction. Even though it hasn’t been proved and I CAN’T PROVE IT.
I know people are going to hate me for bringing this back up, but i just want to hear your opinions, wether bad or good.
YES THIS IS ALL SPECULATION…
Thanks.
you said : But then you have hero’s like DR. Wakefield DR. Geier
I will never understand why some people are able to continue to consider proven liars and charlatans heroes.
answer this unless I knew my sons testostarone level
was soring three times normal and have gotten help
from Dr Geier’s my son would be crashing through the
sheetrock with his body like before we started a lupron
protocall. So you want me to think bad of somebody who had an answer. While childrens hospital is throwing
up thier hands saying it’s just bad behavior, no my son
was expirencing going crazy from the proof that we know
that happens to steroid users you know the rage, my son would get in my face grab my arms and basically growel
so this is my sons fault, he should not have been helped by the brillant DR Geier’s ? PRO BONO may I add. So I guess he is not as greedy as yall might have thought and his protocall is working because he is a lot more calmer.
On one hand I have the whole childrens hospital saying
I know nothing I know nothing you know like sargent shultz on the hogans hero’s show
on the other hand we have Dr Geier’s saying try this
have your sons testostarone checked we did, it was
three times normal as NT you know the rest . . .
what is it you don’t understand that these kids are
not like you they need answers main stream say’s
enjoy while you can you will soon be putting him
away. which answer is on the cutting edge???
and which fits this historical document mind set???
The resistance
to the evidence of mercury poisoning is typical of resistance to new
medical knowledge and declined only when the opponents and sceptics grew
old and disappeared from the scene. Meanwhile, the cause having been
identified and accepted, pink disease disappeared, but its consequences
emerged much later, in an unexpected quarter, as a cause of male
infertility.
Publication Types:
Historical Article
PMID: 11619497 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE DeleteReplyForwardMove…
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Dan/Anon: “Does anyone know the half life of mercury? I heard it was up to 18 years, but am not sure.”
You may be confusing the term ‘Half-life” as it is used to describe kinetics and metabolism of pharmaceutical compounds in living organisms. Mercury is an element and half-life would be used to describe decay of radioactive isotopes. In fact it would be difficult to know how long mercury remains in the body without employing a radioisotope since mercury is excreted and absorbed continuously.
“YES THIS IS ALL SPECULATION…”
Then perhaps a tad premature to try to convince others.
There are millions of neurotoxins – we could absorb all of Kev’s bandwith just listing them.
Is that what happened at the end of July? 🙂
Anonymous, I don’t “hate” you. I think you’re being really stupid, though. I don’t give a rat’s behind what you REALLY REALLY BELIEVE deep deep in your HEART even though you KNOW IT’S SPECULATION and CAN’T PROVE IT and it COMPELLS YOU TO USE LOTS OF CAPS. The force of your BELIEF is utterly irrelevant. Please stick to the facts. This is not a church.
I have multiple autoimmune diseases and my brother has ADHD. My older brother is very healthy. This seems like to much of a correlation to call it coincidence.
No, it doesn’t.
Notmercury, ok i understand more now.
But the body does have an enzyme that degrades mercury right? Isn’t that how pharmaceutical drugs are degraded, by an enzyme. And isn’t that considered half life?
Still just trying to get a handle on all this.
Thanks.
Sorry wanted to edit but hit the post too fast…
I looked up half life on wikipedia and this is what it said…
The half-life of a quantity, subject to exponential decay, is the time required for the quantity to decay to half of its initial value. The concept originated in the study of radioactive decay, but applies to many other fields as well, including phenomena which are described by non-exponential decays.
Seems like mercury and drugs’ half life are the same thing. No?
answer this unless I knew my sons testostarone level
was soring three times normal and have gotten help
from Dr Geier’s my son would be crashing through the
sheetrock with his body like before we started a lupron
protocall. So you want me to think bad of somebody who had an answer
Was it 3 times some average or was it outside the normal range, maybe 3 times the maximum in the range?
There is no reason to believe Lupron had the effects you believe it did. Anecdotes like this are useless, no offese intended. That’s the lesson learned from Secretin anecdotes, case reports and preliminary studies.
Do you realize that even though the Geiers push Lupron, they have no idea what its mechanism of action, if any, might be? They were toying with the idea of testosterone binding with mercury, but even they abandoned this absurdity I understand.
Further, even if the Geiers helped you, that is no excuse to ignore wrong-doing they have done.
My head is spinning.