Autistic Guinea Pigs

15 Feb

During WWII a number of German doctors conducted painful and often deadly experiments on thousands of concentration and death camp prisoners without their consent.

……..

The second category of experimentation was aimed at developing and testing pharmaceuticals and treatment methods….

josefmengele.jpg

Source

Its always a dangerous thing to invoke the spectre of the Nazi’s. There is a profound risk of undermining or belittling the full horror of what happened in Europe during the second world war. I hope I don’t do that.

However, there are times that I simply know of no other way to illustrate the sort of things that one is sent from the various extreme biomed groups that exist on Yahoo and elsewhere. Who can forget Christine Heeren’s poor son being chelated with garlic and vinegar? Or the young mother being urged to chelate her 9 month old baby because she reported he was ‘smiling inappropriately’? And of course, there’s the death of Tariq Nadama.

All these things are simply experimentation on children, pure and simple. In goal and in safety they are no different that any of Mengle’s.

Does this mean parents are too blame? I don’t know. Is Heeren ‘to blame’ for what is being done to her son? No, I don’t believe so. The practitioner performing the treatment is. He (or she) is the one milking parents who believe they are desperate. They are the ones pawing over the traits of children for clues to a big payday.

So no I don’t think parents are to blame. However – what they are is _responsible_ . At some point one cannot keep saying ‘I didn’t know’. At some point it must filter through that injecting a mix of garlic and vinegar into a child isn’t going to do a damn thing. At that point, the parent becomes complicitly responsible. This is why I have such a hard time with the Nadama’s suing. I cannot believe that they didn’t know what they were doing was quackery. It was not a case like the one I touched on yesterday where parents were misled into a dangerous and nearly fatal procedure simply to further the beliefs of a quack.

There is a Yahoo Group – a very busy one – called MB12 Valtrex which discusses these treatment options for autism. Recently a mother to a two and half year old posted, listing what he was on and what he was like:

GFCF – CF since September ’07
Diflucan
Singulair
Glutathione Cream daily
B12 injections every five days, now going to every 3
Cod Liver Oil
Vitamin A
MultiFlora Spectrum Probiotics
Enzyme Complete DP-IV
Super Nu Thera
Vitamin C – 500 mg per day

I just look at him and he seems SO MUCH worse since we started this. I understand the yeast may be acting up and causing crazy behavior but he is unhappy, unhealthy looking. He has dark circles under his very tired eyes. His stimming and behaviors are just worse than ever. My husband and I keep looking at each other and wondering why it’s getting worse when we’re suppose to be on the right track now.

The past few days he’s had white chunks in his stool. Loser than normal stools, very light in color, almost like mustard with dark specs. DAN doc says yeast does NOT come out in poop … then what is it?

That’s a daily list of meds by the way.

Its unutterably depressing to read this sort of thing and know that this poor kid is being experimented on by the DAN! doc and this poor mother (new to the whole extreme biomed community) simply doesn’t have enough knowledge or energy to stand up to this quack.

The community elders of course – those who have become complicit over the years, those who should know better – encourage her to push on:

I know it’s hard to watch your child get worse when you’re trying so hard. Just keep looking and you’ll find the answers. It took me several months to realize that I needed to keep looking for answers. And please, talk to your own doctor about the trouble you’re having. I know how you feel, I’ve been there (and still am some days).

Just keep looking. Right. This from a person who admits she’s still pretty much where the original poster is.

An amazing veteran Mom told me once that when her kids react poorly, it just keeps her going because she knows she’s hitting something and, although it may not be the right supplement at the right time, she’ll eventually get it right.

She’ll eventually get it right. Yeah. And at what cost?

Does it strike no one else as odd that there _are_ all these ‘veteran moms’ _at all_ if this extreme biomed is supposed to work? Why are they still around and doing treatments and pushing experimentation? Surely their kids are ‘recovered’? Or maybe they’re like Erik Nanstiel’s daughter – still ‘low functioning’ after 6 years of extreme biomed and all this extremeism is there simply to assuage mum and dads self inflicted guilt – guilt carefully nurtured by the quacks lining their pockets at these parents expense and their kids childhoods.

29 Responses to “Autistic Guinea Pigs”

  1. Ms. Clark February 15, 2008 at 10:55 #

    This reminded me of a blog written by a dad of an autistic boy the dad was reporting no obvious success or no success at all using Valtrex (an antiviral that doesn’t work on all viruses, just a few, so I understand, and is usually prescribed to people with genital herpes infections). So here’s some quotes from this blog about the therapy and the doctor “Kendal Stewart” from Texas (near Andy Wakefield’s new home base) the boy’s name is removed here:

    Dr. Kendal Stewart
    Several months into [boy’s] occupational therapy, around June of 2003, we went to see Dr. Kendal Stewart, an ENT/Neurotologist who provided a somewhat unconventional approach to autism and other sensory processing problems: a six-month regimen of Valtrex, twice a day.

    The basic theory behind his treatments is that autism and other related sensory processing disorders are actually auto-immune conditions, or at least caused by them. According to his theory (several other doctors have similar theories related to or based on his), the culprit is one of the various strains of herpes present in the environment. The virus isn’t detectable in the blood stream because it hides in the nervous system. Valtrex draws it out so that the immune system can kill it. Naturally, I asked if this was directly measurable, but unfortunately it did not sound that way to me without doing a biopsy of [boy’s] brain; on the other hand, Dr. Stewart had a suite of tests. Several of them involved measuring the ear’s response to stimuli, the ear itself being something of a “giant nerve” (sorry, my layman’s oversimplification of things).

    I was skeptical, but kept an open mind. Dr. Stewart was very articulate. Although we spent well over an hour talking and answering my questions (most doctors don’t do that), had data suggestion strong correlations, and had what seemed to be a unique system of analyzing this data, there were no formal studies based on things such as double-blind placebo trials. As Dr. Stewart pointed out, “these are children–no wants to be in the control group; their time is limited.” I believe Dr. Stewart claimed around five years of success with various patients. As an alternative to classic clinical trials, Dr. Stewart employed a battery of diagnostics to generate what he called “evidence based” analysis. As a software engineer, such an approach seemed familar to me (albeit not as scientifically airtight). But more importantly to any parent, it was explained to me that the dosage and treatment was low-risk. Primum non nocere. (“Do no harm.”)

    We did six months of the Valtrex treatment, grinding then pulverizing those damn hard, bitter blue pills into his orange juice twice a day, every day, for six months. Nevermind the double-take from the pharmacist when she realized that the prescription was for a four-year old and not me. [Boy’s] mother was around for the first few months, but when she moved away to California after the divorce, I continued the ritual alone. Near the end [boy] began to resist his drinks, blowing bubbles, throwing and “accidentally” spilling them on the ground out of protest. I don’t blame him. Tasted like [expletive deleted]. I added more sugar, thickened the juice, woke him up earlier in the mornings to wait on him to finish–did whatever I could to get him to complete the dreaded routine. I joking asked the nurse if we could just do it as shots or a patch. Then finally, Dr. Stewart said [boy] was ready to end the treatment on October 31st.

    Did [boy] improve? Yes. Was it the Valtrex treament? I’m not sure.

    During the Valtrex treament, [boy] was attending speech and occupational therapy. He was with other children the first time. Lots of stimuli, lots of things coming at him all at once. Impossible to know what part each piece played. To complicate things, [boy] only participated in one of Dr. Stewart’s measurements: responding to whether or not he heard an audible signal. Other tests, including one that involved measuring the ear’s physical response to signals, required ear-plug devices that we could not get him to wear.

    Some of the things we tried along with the Valtex, such as an HGH [human growth hormone] patch and Omega-3 oils, seemed low risk. But I had reservations about some of the drugs used in conjunction with the Valtrex, albeit in low dosages. He recommended Straterra, which I dropped after a couple of weeks. (This was before the bad press about the drug. From the beginning our neurologist disagreed with Dr. Stewart’s application of the drug, and I didn’t notice any positive effects.) I also could not bring myself to using Provigil on a four-year old. Although I never felt like I was being pushed, after [boy’s] Valtrex treatment was completed I decided to move on and try a different path. At least for a while.

    But I will say this: each time we visited, Dr. Stewart observed [boy’s] gait during a running exercise. He made cautious predictions not only about improvements in [boy’s] movement, but also mentioned possible changes in [boy’s] awareness of the environment. Those observation generally seemed to be coming true. For example, [boy] began to pay more attention to objects on the road while riding in the car, as predicted. Although I could rationalize this out with the fact that [boy] was also going through occupational therapy at the time, I’m not convinced that would be enough to dismiss all of his observations. I certainly don’t doubt his intentions.

    Was Dr. Stewart right? I don’t know, and I may never know. I deeply hope he was, but hopein’ ain’t believin’. I do know that [boy] is still autistic. There was no “magic bullet” or “moment of awakening” for us. No one ever promised us that. Treatment of autism is in its infancy, and everyone still seems to be trying to figure it out. We are in a gray area, just now making movements out of the dark ages. We have a long way to go, but [boy] is better off than before. I don’t regret putting him on Valtrex for six months, because not trying anything after hearing Dr. Stewart’s convincing pitch would have been something I would have truly regretted.

    Link:

    Web site used to be http://www.%5B…] but it doesn’t appear to be maintained any longer. I did find a profile on him at http://www.%5B…]

    ….

    ===========

    This whole blog entry just sad.

    I have no idea how sincere Dr. Kendal Stewart is. But I do know that he’s an ENT… Oh, just like Roy Kerry! and that he’s not qualified to be commenting on the boy’s developmental progress or his gait. Gimme a stinking break. And what’s this about autism being caused by invisible herpes in the boy’s brain?? and curable with Valtrex? Since when?

    When the Music Man, Professor Harold Hill, came to town he told all the parents that their kids would be great musicians, if only they bought instruments from him and band uniforms, and took some lessons from Harold, too, using the “think method”. And when it came time for the kids to perform the parents heard fabulous skilled musicians when the kids were actually playing untrained noise.

    This father was told he was bound to see results and over 6 months time the boy gained in some developmental skills (and was in various therapies besides the Valtrex) but because the doctor was so NICE (like professor Harold Hill was) the dad has a hard time seeing that the whole thing was a waste of time and money. Hopefully this medical experimentation wasn’t the thing that drove his wife away, if so then it cost the family even more.

    If the dad had never met this doctor and been guilted, basically into trying valtrex then he wouldn’t have gone down that path, but now he seems to need to believe that the NICE doctor cared about his kid and had a legitimate idea that was worth trying out. That just makes me feel sad for all the parents out there who are pressured by their emotions (and by quacks) into going down this road, and in some cases exposing their kids to years of swallowing questionable pills and getting injected and infused with questionable if not painful and dangerous stuff. And getting poked and anesthetized and deprived of foods they like (**usually** for no good reason, from what I can see).

    We have no idea how much of this stuff is doing **real damage** to the children’s bodies and brains and how much the constant push to “cure” is damaging the way the kid’s see themselves. But as far as I can tell the “biomuddled” are nowhere near about to stop.

  2. Club 166 February 15, 2008 at 13:11 #

    Kev,

    Thanks for the tremendous insight you just gave me.

    I am on a local autism list, on which I feel it is my duty to disavow parents of some of the seriously flawed ideas that are out there. I always try to keep my comments neutral and not personally attack the parents, yet I am myself often personally attacked for being so “hostile”.

    I have wondered why I have been attacked so much, and felt that it was because these parents could not separate me attacking flawed ideas from attacking them personally. But I think that you have hit on the real reason.

    …So no I don’t think parents are to blame. However – what they are is responsible . At some point one cannot keep saying ‘I didn’t know’. At some point it must filter through that injecting a mix of garlic and vinegar into a child isn’t going to do a damn thing. At that point, the parent becomes complicitly responsible. …

    I think that on some level me giving them information let’s them know that they are responsible for any harm that comes to their children when they don’t listen. They can’t claim that no one told them, because I did.

    Joe

  3. MJ February 15, 2008 at 15:02 #

    Funny, I can’t seem to find a group called “B12 Valtrex” on yahoo groups, do you have a link to the group?

  4. Kev February 15, 2008 at 15:55 #

    That is funny MJ – I typed in ‘valtrex’ and lo:

    http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/mb12valtrex/

  5. Kev February 15, 2008 at 15:59 #

    I just realised I put the group name as B12, not MB12 in the post. I guess thats the source of confusion MJ.

  6. kristina February 15, 2008 at 17:19 #

    I stay in touch with a family who does all of the things listed—the mother and I were good friends when Charlie and her son (one week apart in age) were diagnosed. The last time we saw them—-they go to a certain DAN! doctor in New York state—their son was constantly saying he felt tired and he looked washed out and weak. Kept trying to sit down on the sidewalk—-then there wass Charlie, athletic and running around, not able to read or speak or well but I know that giving him regular dosings of strange supplements would have “improved” his speech.

    I am quite sure my friend does not read my blog or this one — I’ve indicated my shall we say lack of enthusiasm for biomed to her. But it seems that once you’re so deep into it, it is hard to stop.

  7. mb12valtrex member February 15, 2008 at 19:50 #

    This group is scary. It isn’t like a post like this couldn’t be written every week. Just about every day there are very frightening stories posted there.

  8. Joseph February 15, 2008 at 21:16 #

    Or maybe they’re like Erik Nanstiel’s daughter – still ‘low functioning’ after 6 years of extreme biomed

    But don’t you know Erik’s daughter is basically normal, even better than a normal kid, except for the non-verbal part?

  9. Joseph February 15, 2008 at 21:23 #

    BTW, let me copy an on-topic message that I recently got on one of my posts:


    I have been reading all of your posts and having also read Jenny’s book I have to add my thoughts as well. I have a 7 (soon to be 8) year old autistic son. He is moderately autistic, some speech but needs constant supervision. We tried the gfcf diet when he was 4 but had not improvement so we stopped after 3 months. We have all the usual therapists and have put him in a very small special needs school where he is much happier. We have tried everything from the diet, vitamins, b-12 shots, etc. Every time I think that this is the last time I’m putting him through all of this and then someone tells my about a new book or treatment or school, etc. Well I read her book and decided that maybe I wasn’t strict enough with the diet last time so we will try it again. My son never had “gut” issues to begin but I tried it anyway. After 4 very stressful months on this diet (and very strict) there WAS NO DIFFERENCE AGAIN! I decided then and there that we are no longer going to listen to these crazy people who think they know what will fix your child. My son is sooooooooo happy to have his favorite foods back. He is not a junk food eater anyway. The thing that does help these kids is accepting them the way they are and giving them love. I also learned that he does not need to fit in to a certain “grade level” at school. He goes to a place where people love him and know how to talk to him. I don’t care what “grade” he’s in – as long as he’s happy (and so are we!) Jenny can take her book and her diet……

    mom to Jonathan

  10. Regan February 15, 2008 at 21:50 #

    Kev, your quotes illustrate something that has been disturbing to me for several years: unlicensed, unqualified, and usually unidentifiable (for that matter) lay people doling out medical advice on the internet for a sick child who they can not see and diagnosing children who they also can’t see. Not every illness is because of autism. Not every solution is in alt med. Not only is it experimenting on one’s own child(ren), but it’s taking others’ along for the ride. I believe that even for medical people, that diagnosing and prescribing treatments without seeing a patient is considered unethical.

    BTW, I saw that post about the “inappropriately” smiling baby, and I found the responses of “what to do” very disturbing.

  11. qchan63 February 15, 2008 at 21:57 #

    Kev,

    I have to say i agree that invoking someone like Mengele is pretty iffy. Let’s remember that, when it comes to the parents at least (and i realize you made the distinction between parents and practicioners), their presumed intention is to help their kids — however misguided and dangerous their methods of doing so prove to be. I think it’s safe to say that such was not Mengele’s motive.

    That said, it’s funny how infrequently we hear, say, Rashid Buttar’s name these days. Wasn’t his lotion potion going to be the miracle answer to autism? It amazes me that even after the sad parade of his and so many other “cures,” people keep buying into this kind of stuff.

  12. notmercury February 15, 2008 at 22:00 #

    I wonder if these parents would be willing to ingest the same cocktail of drugs, chemicals, and vitamins on a daily basis? Age and weight adjusted, of course, ala Jock Doubleday’s challenge.

    I bet it would make them physically ill.

  13. MJ February 15, 2008 at 23:22 #

    “I bet it would make them physically ill.”

    Which item on that list do you think would make them physically ill? Please list them explicitly instead of making broad statements. I would suggest that the only ones that could do that would be the prescription drugs.

    As far as a multi-vitamin, a probiotic, vitamin C, or even cod liver oil, you simply do not know what you are talking about. As a adult you can and should take many of these vitamins to maintain your health.

    My children are on some if items on that list, and contrary to what most of you seem to believe or want to quote, they have made a difference in some of their core symptoms.

    Please spare me the replies along the lines of placebo, observer bias, etc. Since we have been doing these treatments for over a year along with more traditional ones such as aba we have measured and documented improvements in joint attention, eye contact, communication skills, and other key areas.

    And frankly I don’t really care if you choose to believe me or not. My children are still improving.

    As far as the main article comparing biomed approaches to Nazi medical experiments, I am speechless. The comparison is so far out of line that words fail me.

    One one hand you a group of people who carried our horrific experiments and tortured innocent people just to see what would happen. These experiments were done for sadistic reasons. These people were not trying to help their patients, they were trying to kill them.

    On the other you have parents who are trying any reasonable approach to make their children’s lives better.

    If you can’t see or understand the moral difference between the two groups then you are truly a sorry excuse for a human being.

  14. Kev February 16, 2008 at 00:29 #

    _”And frankly I don’t really care if you choose to believe me or not.”_

    I think maybe you do 🙂

    _”As far as the main article comparing biomed approaches to Nazi medical experiments, I am speechless. The comparison is so far out of line that words fail me.”_

    I compared _extreme_ biomed experimentation to the stated goals of Nazi experimentation. How are they different? Make me human MJ.

  15. Joseph February 16, 2008 at 00:58 #

    MJ basically said… “my anecdote is much much better than those of the Secretin parents! So there!”

  16. bones February 16, 2008 at 01:22 #

    “That said, it’s funny how infrequently we hear, say, Rashid Buttar’s name these days.”

    Oh, me thinks you’ll hear plenty after his med board disciplinary hearing on 2/20.

  17. Navi February 17, 2008 at 17:49 #

    um, wow.

    diflucan is like um a 1 pill instead of 7 day yeast infection medicine. every day is over kill. and getting rid of good yeast (yes your body needs some yeast) allows bacteria to move in, doesn’t it? just as getting rid of bacteria allows a yeast infection? I don’t know. but then, um I’m not a dr…

    My son, has had 2.5 years of nothing but what public schools give him and his family’s love since his diagnosis,is developing slowly, but he’s definitely developing. Autism doesn’t cause someone to stagnate in development, so the biomedical interventions must be causing the stagnation. My son responds, occasionally immediately when we ask him something. Not by talking, but we’re learning to communicate with him as he learns to communicate with us. Two and a half years ago, the only thing he consistently responded to was “NO!” His eye contact (which was better than most to begin with) is even better, to the point where he craves eye contact from me and will do whatever he can, including patting me, to get my attention (we have 3 kids so unfortunately he doesn’t get the constant attention that would probably help him more) just so I’ll look into his eyes. I’d say, that seeing as we’re seeing improvement he probably doesn’t need biomedical intervention. Unfortunately, our media, including the Discover magazine, likes to portray all these kids that “woke up from death” when its probably a case where they developed despite, rather than because of, the biomedical interventions (I had a relative talking about metals after reading an article from earlier last year – I had to explain that just because it’s in Discover doesn’t mean it’s not hogwash). This portrayal is much more fantastic than showing someone like my son, of whom the public would have to take my word that he’s improved, because they’d still see a ‘low functioning’ kid.

  18. Stan Kurtz is a bad idea February 17, 2008 at 20:59 #

    The following is a recent exchange of advice from the mb12 valtrex list. It looks like cargo cult chatter. They have no idea what they are saying to each other and Amy Yasko isn’t an MD. Stan Kurtz their medgod is a high school drop out. It will be a miracle if they don’t kill a few kids before Kurtz retires his dime-store medical license.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    S_______ wrote:
    Has anyone had this experience? The rash still present, the doctor says we must stop Diflucan and anti-viral and wait for test results (ANA and ASO)(strep) before we can continue He is stimming in ways we have never seen, his rash still present, the difference this time is no fever. The doc feels the rash may be from the diflucan, and says there
    is no way to tell if its detox I hear so many stories about rashes, crazy behavior leading into better things. It feels wrong……I guess b/c it makes me feel like I hit a
    brick wall, and cant continue
    What does this all mean.
    Has anyone seen this with their child?

    wrote:

    anit-virals do not ALWAYS lead to good behavior afterwards-it depends on the child. 51 days iks long-give him a break from it and see if there is a change. You can alwasy go back to it. We have to remember that not all children are responders to anit-virals-back
    to the one size does not fit all.

    Maurine

    S_________ wrote:
    > Hi, all.The 51 days was someone else, not me. I am in like day 20 or so, and stopping the anti-viral and diflucan today. I did not see the video someone else mentioned, just that wikipedia link to SJS [edit: stevens-johnson syndrome where all the person’s skill can peel off as a reaction to a drug] which scared me to death. The advice I need right now, please – what is a great round of PROBIOTICS considerable of, can someone tell me what I should try since we are only using PROBIOTIC complete 25 bill cfus.I would like to get the right things going for him, and are you suggesing the DIET as per STans diet, the caveman diet ? Or a diff version of it?’

    liv4luke wrote:

    S______–

    Luke got a rash on his abdomen from both diflucan and a 7-day
    course of Caprylic acid, which makes me think that the rash is a detox rash. Yasko says there is way to tell if a child is in detox,
    and that’s by sending the UTM–she says if the creatinine is up (or you see metals dumping), then the child is in detox. It is very hard to see your child get worse and stick through things. Diflucan did
    not gel with Luke at the time I gave it to him–he went NUTS and after 3 weeks, I had lost more language. I don’t know why this
    happened but I pulled him off b/c of this. All I did after that was add in some Omega 3’s and I got all this language back + some (that same day!) That is why I decided to try some sort of liver support b/c it seemed Luke could not get rid of toxins–anytime I gave him anything for yeast, he could not handle the die off. After adding some liver support (liver life) I can give him lots of naturals
    without a really bad reaction. It is so hard to endure the “get worse before they get better” thing because you never really know.

    If the MD recommended you get off the medicine, then get off but I know it is so hard b/c you don’t know if you should push through. Have you thought of maybe sending one of those UTM’s–maybe Gabby could chime in here b/c she knows what detox looks like in her kids. Go with your motherly gut-if it feels wrong then stop.

    Have you tried natural antivirals and anti fungals b/c maybe if your son responds to those then you know that maybe you just have to try different antivirals or maybe decrease the dose. I don’t think any of this made sense b/c I’m so stinking tired.

    S______ wrote:

    Hi [liv4luke]

    Thanks for chiming in. What would be a natural antifungal ? Right now we are using only complete probiotic from my doctor- 25 bill cfus. Should I add the S boullardi, is it safe for everyone? I am so sick over all of this, and not knowing. Unfortunately I live in NY and Yasko testing is out of my reach. I ordered a UTM but I have to send
    it somehere else – by the time it gets here and I find a way to send it back who knows what it will prove. I am so frustrated and tired.—

    live4luke wrote:
    Date: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:39 am ((PST))

    Oh I know….please, this is all part of the “beast.” Take him off for now–give him a couple of days rest, let the rash disappear. If you can, order the brainchild nutritionals natural yeast protocol because it gives clear-cut dosing and what to expect and how to treat die off. I added some other antifungals into the rotation but I have to say, they did a great job with this. It also comes with lots of instructions and forms to help you keep track of the rotation. I’m 5 days into that protocol and Luke slept better than ever last night and is having great eye contact. Maybe later add some olive leaf extract and see how that does for him (natural antiviral). Liver Life confirmed my son being viral for me because when I started, he would get these weird pimply rashes on his face that would disappear as the day went on (Liver Life has some Olive Leaf in it). I forgot you were in NY–that’s one of the reasons I’m not looking forward to moving back. What else is your son
    on? [liv4luke]

    >

  19. Kassiane February 17, 2008 at 21:14 #

    Theyre going to kill a kid. And stephens Johnson is NOT FUN. AT ALL.

    They are completely going to kill a kid and call it die off reaction – ill –

  20. Kassiane February 17, 2008 at 21:23 #

    Gah, the formatting here is odd. Ill is not supposed to be crossed out. I am definatly queasy over all this…

  21. Regan February 18, 2008 at 01:27 #

    MJ said,
    “along with more traditional ones such as aba we have measured and documented improvements in joint attention, eye contact, communication skills, and other key areas”

    Glad to hear that those areas are improving.
    How are you isolating the med effects from those traditional education-based therapies and the contribution of maturation?

  22. MJ February 18, 2008 at 01:54 #

    Regan said:

    “How are you isolating the med effects from those traditional education-based therapies and the contribution of maturation?”

    Since what you are suggesting is not even possible I am not sure what you are asking. Assuming that some of the skills would have been learned by the simple fact that they are getting older the only way possible to separate any effect (given a single child) would be to go back and time and do something differently and observe the different outcome. So, got a time machine?

    As far as measuring improvements that is being done.

    The aba of course measures and charts progress in the programs being run as well as other related factors (like stims during sessions).

    The biomed can be measured insofar as the underlying issues that are being targeted are addressed. For example, blood tests one year ago showed both twins to be deficient in iron and zinc (and by deficient I mean the level in their blood was below the bottom cutoff range used in the test). So we have been giving then iron and zinc for the past year. We just repeated the tests about a week or two ago, so we will know whether their iron and zinc levels are coming up into the range that they should be at.

    So can I separate which part of the improved eye contact comes from mastering a specific aba program vs raising the zinc level in their blood vs simply getting older? In a single child that just isn’t possible.

    And to be honest, it really doesn’t matter.

  23. Tom February 19, 2008 at 23:08 #

    The combination of cod liver oil and Vitamin A can easily reach toxic levels and cause liver damage.

    The safety of valtrex has never been established in children and yet in adults it can also elevate liver enzymes. So now we have three possible sources for liver damage.

    I sure hope these people are having their children monitored.

  24. cure stan kurtz February 22, 2008 at 04:48 #

    Stan Kurtz, who owns the mb12valtrex yahoo group, is a pathological narcissist. Yeah, I’ve met him. He’s such a flaming famewh0re.

    http://www.stankurtz.org/about/experts.html

  25. Deb K February 22, 2008 at 05:05 #

    Hey! Hey!You ALL have to calm down!! I have seen great things happen with my girl! Do not give up on GFCF!! She got potty trained at 6yrs one month after the diet!( Spelt has gluten many foods have hidden dairy and gluten!!) She learned how to use the computer shortly after the start of the diet! low sugar also helps!!My girl also had yeast in her belly seen with an endoscopy by my gastro nystatin is what we used. I use regular docs and a DAN nutritionist!! The only one who has an Autistic son!!Shes wonderfull been such a help.You have to know your foods!Dont go to crazy with everything and have blind faith!!!!! GOOGLE everything you can!Autism speaks is great!! Bless you all keep the faith!!

  26. cure stan kurtz February 22, 2008 at 05:14 #

    Hey, Deb K!!

    What many of us are concerned about is someone, like Stan Kurtz who practices medicine without any training whatsoever, will contribute toward making somebody permanently calm.

  27. Deb K February 22, 2008 at 05:46 #

    HEY HEY !! I GET IT! You guys have a point buttttt dont go overboard! Some people may give up!They may read this and get fearful of everyone that does DAN! If you give up you fail! If you push to hard you fail! You have to use the brain god gave you and methodically do things to help these dammaged kids. My daughter had a DTP shot that dammaged her (docs notes made this a def). Deb K

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