“I feel like getting in my car, driving away and never coming back. I can’t stand it anymore. If the screaming, howling, humming, and screeching doesn’t stop I will lose my mind. 14 hours a day. From the second he open his eyes until the second he closes them there is noise. Even if you tell him to be quiet he sits there and says “be quiet…be quiet” over and over. Not more than 10 seconds goes by where some ridiculous sound isn’t coming out of my son. He talks in a high pitched screechy voice that makes every nerve ending stand on end. He screeches and screams for no reason. The humming, the high pitched humming all day long. I can’t take it. My head hurts so bad and there are only so many things I can take for a headache. I wake up at 7 am, or rather I am awakened by screeching at 7am and get no peace until about 9pm. By then my head hurts so much it doesn’t matter. I can’t get anything done because I can’t focus with the noise in the background. I can’t have a phone call. I can’t have a conversation in person. I know this is going to upset some people but I swear, I miss the days when he didn’t make a peep. not a single peep. I remember when I used to cry and ask him to talk to me, to say anything. I should have been more specific and wished he’d speak and make meaningful sentances rather than walk around all day and say meaningless phrases over and over, and scream and screech when he didn’t. know what meaningless phrase to use at the moment. I have about 40 minutes before he goes to bed then I get to listen to him hum himself to sleep for an hour. By then I should be ready to jump off a roof.
Thanks for letting me vent. Not sure if it made me feel better but at least if I jump off the roof someone knows why”
Posted by “Mary”, mother of “Saul”, age 7.9 (7 years, 9 months), to an autism “biomedical treatment” yahoo group in August 2009.
The idea that vaccines might be a cause of autism has received a great deal of attention from the media. Scientifically, the question has been thoroughly investigated and thoroughly discredited.
Legally, the idea has also been rejected. The Autism Omnibus case bundled the claims of almost 5000 children against the Vaccine Injury Compensation program. In the hearings for the first of three theories of causation, the lawyers for the parents and their children chose the strongest three cases to illustrate their claim that MMR vaccines and thimerosal-containing vaccines can combine to cause autism. On February 12, 2009, all three cases were dismissed. The decisions were scathing, stating that “the overall weight of the evidence is overwhelmingly contrary to the petitioners’ causation theories.” Moreover, parents were characterized as a “loving, caring, and courageous” family “misled by physicians who are guilty of gross medical misjudgment. In June and July of 2009, all test cases were appealed, and all three were dismissed.
The yahoo group “Environment of Harm” formerly “Evidence of Harm”, was established to discuss the book of the latter title, written by journalist David Kirby. The focus of the group is to discuss
“issues of government public health negligence and corruption and the various political efforts by parents to end the spectrum of epidemics that is being revealed as mercury poisoning, especially autism.”
From March 2005, the date of the book’s publication, until February 2009, when the Omnibus legal decisions were rendered, the group received an average of over 2000 posts per month. Since the rulings, the posting rate has dropped to only 800 per month, perhaps indicating that the issue is also losing momentum from a political point of view.
The mainstream media, the groups such as the AAP, and the blog sphere have also pushed back in an effort to educate the public on the harm done by the vaccines cause autism groups.
But behind the scientific and legal consensus that vaccines do not cause autism lies a hidden world, the autism “biomedical” yahoo- and chat-group world. There is no decline in the number of posts in this world. It’s a thriving, and growing community, one that has fueled the popularity of the anti-vaxers, and the certainty of those parents who consider their child “vaccine-injured”. It has spurred the spending of millions of dollars on supplements, hyperbaric treatments, off-label prescription medications, and myriad other autism “biomedical treatments”. These “treatments” are almost all of no proven benefit, some are ridiculous, some relatively benign, and many potentially dangerous. This article will explore the journey of one mother, “Mary” in her efforts to cure her son “Saul”. While the case of Mary and Saul, documented in her own words is shocking and appalling, Mary is not alone nor is she an extreme case. She is one of thousands of parents seeking autism “biomedical treatments” on the internet.
We first meet Mary in October 2003, when her son Saul (born November 2001) was only 22 months of age. She began posting on the group NLT (for a description of the yahoo groups discussed in this article see the section at the end). She stated that her son
“is basically non verbal. He said his first word, duck, at 7 months old. About a month later he said light, off , and on, but dropped duck. This set a pattern for him. Anytime he learned a new word he dropped any old words he had used at that point. Now, his only real words are Mama and Dada. He will on a rare occassion say car. He has had and lost about 20 words since 7 months of age.”
Shortly thereafter, he was evaluated by early intervention, and psychologist wrote PDD on his evaluations, along with the term Autistic-like. Mary was told that he was not autistic, but he’s autistic like. 10-20 hours a week of intensive in home therapy (ABA) was recommended.
So, Saul is a very young child, showing speech delay and signs of autism, evaluated very quickly, and almost immediately started on early intervention. Of course, Mary is understandably upset:
“I don’t know why I’m so upset. He (the psychologist) didn’t say anything I didn’t already know or suspect. I guess its just because my fears were realized. Rather than come in and say “oh no, he’s fine, he’s just a late talker” I heard what I was hoping not too. I’m sure that somehow to some degree this is my fault. Saul was such a quiet content infant, and he was content to play by himself as he got older I sort of went with it. I figured he was happy let me go do dishes, or laundry or whatever and let him entertain himself. Yeah that was great but now he is only happy by himself and turns in to himself and its my fault I know it is.”
Recent research (two links:here and here) has looked at the impact of parental acceptance of their child’s autism diagnosis. It was found that parents who do not come to a resolution (i.e. come to terms with and accept the diagnosis and its implications) find raising their child more difficult. In the case of Mary, we will see a real-life example of a mother failing to come to terms with her child’s PDD.
Here’s Mary again:
Thank you everyone for your support. I’m sorry I forgot to mention Saul’s age. He will be 2 at the end of the month.
I’m feeling a lot better but still overwhelmed. I want to read as much as possible so I can do the best to help him but I think I need a little time to come to terms.
A few questions though if anyone knows…Do kids diagnosed with PDD always end up as special ed or is their hope with therapy he main go mainstream. The reason I ask is that my cousin teaches 5th grade special d and the majority of her kids are PDD kids, and have been in special ed since kindergarten. What are the odds that my child will grow up, go to college and lead what is considered a normal life?
Also, I was reading about a special diet that gluten free that is supposedly helpful. Has anyone tried this?
Should I just go with the system for say 6 mos or so and see how he responds and progresses before trying anything different like diet changes or supplements.
Sorry if I’m asking a million questions. My brain is spinning and all the websites I go to just overwhelm me more. Everyone here seems to have such a wealth of knowledge, and more importantly personal experience and understanding.”
This message signals the start of a frightening journey into the realms of woo. The “treatments” inflicted on Saul are very painful to read. Mary joined numerous autism “biomedical treatment” yahoo groups. She is presently a member of all the groups in the box, see below (except EoH), and more besides. She has posted more than 3500 messages to these groups. Mary reveals her willingness to accept medical advice from strangers on the internet, and her trust in doctors employing “gross medical misjudgment”. Between the ages of 3.6 and 7.9, Saul has been “treated” with the following (in alphabetical order):
Acetyl L Carnitine –
acetylated form of L-carnitine
(quaternary ammonium compound biosynthesized from the amino acids lysine and methionine)
Actos (pioglitazone)
-prescription drug which carries a black box warning
Cal/Mag Butyrate – mineral supplement
Candex
– marketed as an enzymatic remedy to treat the yeast infection candida
Carnosine -amino acid
Chelation – process of removing heavy metals
Andrew Cutler protocol (at least 50 rounds)
DAN protocol for 2 1/2 years.
15 IVs of EDTA & Glutathione
5 IVs of DMPS and glutathione
5 combined IVs DMPS/EDTA/Glutathione
Chiropractic
Diflucan – prescription anti-fungal
Dimethyl glycine – modified amino acid
Enhansa – Enhanced absorption curcumin supplement
Epsom salt baths
Essential fatty acids
Flagyl (Metronidazole) – prescription anti-fungal
Folinic acid – modified folic acid
Folapro – highly absorbable folate
Galantamine
prescription drug used for the treatment of mild to moderate
Alzheimer’s disease and various memory impairments
GFCF diet – gluten-free-casein-free diet (3 years)
GFCF diet with digestive enzymes for infractions
HBOT
hyperbaric oxygen treatment
(Mary owns her own Mary owns a Vitaeris 320)
HLC MindLinx Powder by Pharmax – probiotic
IM Bicillin – prescription intramuscularly injected form of penicillin
Inositol – a nutrient
IVIG – Intravenous Immunoglobulin
prescription
used to treat immune dysfunction
contains the pooled immunoglobulin G (IgG)
immunoglobulins from the plasma of approximately a
thousand or more blood donors
Klaire Labs Detoxification Support and Factor 4 – probiotic
Liquid Bodybio PC – phosphatidylcholine with essential fatty acids
Liquid grapefruit seed extract
Low dose Naltrexone – an anti-opiod
L-theanine – amino acid
Magnesium supplements
MB12 – Methylcobalamin, vitamin B12 – shots
MB12 – Methylcobalamin, vitamin B12 – spray
Nicotine patch
Nizoral – antifungal
Nystatin – antifungal
OLE – olive leaf extract
OSR
(N,N’-bis (2-mercaptoethyl)isophthalamide,
also know as 1,3-benzenediamidoethanethiol)
an untested synthetic chemical
Oxytocin nasal spray
PCA-Rx – purports to remove toxins from the body
Phosphatidylcholine
Pro Bio – probiotic
Quercetin – antioxidant flavinoid
Reduced glutathione cream
Threelac -probiotic
Transdermal NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine)
Valtrex (valacyclovir)
used to treat infections caused by herpes viruses
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Zithromax – antibiotic
Mary has been tireless in “treating” Saul. But what about Saul? One would think that he must be very impacted by autism in order for her to go to these extraordinary lengths to cure him. Actually, no. He’s an extraordinary kid, and a wonderful one. Saul could identify all of the letters in any order and count to 40 at age 2.2. He started sight reading words at about 2.3 and at age 2.8 could sight read about 30 words. He started kindergarten in a segregated setting at age 4.9, , talked to the teacher, “he sat nicely through circle time, sat at his desk during class, and even raised his hand and answered questions. He was pointing to shapes on the wall and quizzing the teachers!” Here is Mary’s description of Saul at age 4.7:
“I woke up this morning and he was in bed with me. I’m not sure what time he came in because I never heard or felt him get into bed which is unusual. I woke up and felt him there. I rolled over and his little face was right there. He looked so peaceful and really has the face of an angel. I just laid there and stared at him for about 20 minutes. He yawned and opened his eyes. He saw me and his face lit up with a HUGE ear to ear grin. “Good morning Mom. Love you. Gimme a hug.” He gave me such a big strong hug. “Gimme a kiss.” I gave him a kiss. A second later his gears kicked in and he was off and running on full speed. After a few minutes he came back in the room and said “GIMME BREAKFAST! ! !””
But the “biomedical treatments” have not always been kind to Saul. Here’s Mary describing him at age 5.11
My son is on a ton of supplements. We haven’t really changed anything. Starting August 30, for three weeks we had to stop all enzymes, antifungals and probiotics in preparation for a endoscopy/colonoscopy. He is back on everything since he was scoped on Sept 20. Also at the beginning of August he had a high fever and a nasty rash that was diagnosed as Fifth’s Disease. I’m not convinced it was Fifths. He didn’t have the bright red cheeks and the rash was gone in 3 days.
After being sick he became clingy and a little whiny. In the past month its become horrible. I can’t even stand up without his whining “mommy..moooommmmmy, mommy will come.” I hear this the entire time I’m out of the room. Even if I tell him what I’m going to do and that I’ll be right back he continues saying it over and over. He whines over every little thing. Usually just lets out a big “WWWAAAAHHH” and it goes on and on. He cries over everything. He’s driving me insane. We are also seeing a decrease in spontaneous expressive language, asking repetitive questions, and repeating back questions instead of answering them.”
Nor have the “biomedical treatments” been kind to the family budget. In one message, Mary admitted that each month she spent $2800 – $3500 for IVIG, plus about $500 in supplements including the cost of chelation.
In a rare moment of insight, in May 2008, Mary posted:
“Sometimes I feel like a mad scientist and my poor kid is my guinea pig.”
Finally, a year later, she posted the preamble to this article (see box at top). How’s that “biomedical treatment” working out for you, Mary?
Such are the real costs of the anti-vaccination movement, the “biomedical treatment” internet groups. And the real costs of a parent unable to accept their child’s diagnosis. In her last message to the NLT group, Mary is still in denial about her son’s diagnosis:
RE: Sowell Traits
My son is 5 and is diagnosed PDD-NOS fits 7 of these to a T! ! ! The only one that doesn’t fit is # 7Makes me wonder what we are really dealing with.”
Thousands of parents are members of these yahoo groups. Once inside the cozy echo chamber of the group, there is general acceptance that vaccines cause autism. Members expressing opposing views are drummed out of the group. It is taken as an article of faith that there are children recovering from autism by the use of these biomedical interventions. The parents get poorer, the quacks get richer, and the innocent children are the victims of often dangerous and painful experimentation at the hands of the people who are supposed to care for them the most.
Some Yahoogroups
A-M – Autism-Mercury. Membership 8400, 2000 messages/month (archives public)
“To discuss current issues related to the increasing incidence of autism the potential link between excessive mercury exposure via thimerosal in infant vaccines. Topics include: mercury detoxification (“chelation”), mercury-related issues/news, and vaccination-related issues/news. Most members are parents of children with autism, aspergers, ADD, ADHD, PDD, PDD-NOS, SID, oppositional defiance disorder, apraxia, speech disorders, and/or other related symptoms. There are many labels: you are welcome regardless of particular label(s). In addition to mercury, we also discuss other heavy metals (for example: arsenic, antimony, lead). Many parents here are in the process of chelation, with a child. This process is discussed in detail. Also welcome: mercury poisoned adults; other disorders/issues related to mercury poisoning; other biomedical treatments for ASD.”
Comment: Primarily discusses Andrew Cutler heavy metal chelation protocol. This protocol relies on faux “counting rules” applied to hair testing to purportedly prove that people are “mercury toxic”. Andrew Cutler has a PhD in Chemical Engineering.
CK2 – Chelatingkids2. Membership 6600, 3000 messages/month
“This list is for parents and/or family members of children with autism who are seeking biomedical intervention, The main focus of treatment here follows the DAN! or Defeat Autism Now.”
Comment: Mercury chelation according to the DAN! protocol. This protocol relies on provoked urine tests to purportedly prove “mecury toxcicity”. This very active group has been recently closed to new postings for an unspecified period of time.
EoH – Environment of Harmformerly Evidence of Harm. Membership 2300, 600 messages/month (archives public)
“This is the Environment of Harm discussion list focusing on vaccine damage and mercury poisoning as it relates to autism. Of keen interest to participants are the issues of government public health negligence and corruption and the various political efforts by parents to end the spectrum of epidemics that is being revealed as mercury poisoning, especially autism.”
Comment: Politically active group originally supporting the autism is caused by mercury poisoning hypothesis, but now openly anti-vaccine.
GFCFKids– Membership 14000, 3500 posts/month
“The principle aim of this list is to provide a discussion forum for parents of children on the autism spectrum who are avoiding gluten and casein and other substances in their children’s diets. We hope that the discussions will include practical information and tips on following a GFCF(etc) diet; scientific research and opinion; the latest developments in understanding GFCF(etc) diet-related health problems; your personal stories and experiences with relation to GFCF(etc) problems; information on what food is GFCF(etc)and what is not; tips on how to eat out of the house; recipes and tips on how to cook and prepare GFCF(etc) food; what vitamins, minerals, herbs and other supplements may be appropriate for a child with autism, how to cope with difficult diet demands, plus support for parents.”
Comment: One of the largest “biomedical treatment” yahoo groups. While the GFCF diet has substantial anecdotal support, clinical trials have not shown any benefit. The GFCF diet appears relatively harmless, however, it can result in weakening of bones due to nutritional deficiencies. Moreover, it often acts as a first step on the path to more dangerous “biomedical treatments”.
NLT – NaturalLateTalkers. Membership 2900, 500 messages/month
“This list is a support for parents of latetalkers or speech delay with some or all traits of latetalker listed in the book Late Talking Children by Thomas Sowell. . . Here parents ARE and will be able to discuss their problems, concerns, and dissatisfaction with the over diagnosing done by various systems, such as speech therapists, doctors, schools, etc. Parent’s choice helping with speech through parent or another source is to be respected.” (sic)
Comment: This list supports those in deep denial about their child’s autism. While such support groups appear to be relatively benign, offering mutual support to parents of children with disabilities, they are often an entry point for parents to learn about the autism “biomedical treatment” and anti-vaccination movements. These groups are replete with examples of parents taking medical advice from strangers over the internet, many of whom are accorded more credibility than the medical professionals who have actually seen their children.
Left Brain Right Brain 
14. adding to number 13…is there any doctor, scientist, scientific research, or agency that doesn’t agree with your views or info you’ve collected (anti-vaxxers as you call them) whom you do respect or like?
15. Assuming you all think Autism is inherent issue how is it possible, not only do the numbers climb, the numbers are different throughout the states?
http://www.autism-conferences.com/services.html
Guest Blogger,
You mention that GFCF is promoted as a cure. I have not personally met any parent who believes that is the case.
Our personal experience with the GFCF diet is that it has helped my son to feel better. When he feels better, he gets more out of his therapies (40 hours a week of ABA, speech and OT at a truly wonderful school). I think that’s true of any child.
The multiple allergy tests we have had done (at Children’s) do not show ANY food allergies. And yet my son shows allergic symptoms when given milk or products containing milk. Sure, we considered the lactose intolerance angle. However, NONE of our doctors think that to be the case. They all say that true lactose intolerance is very rare. My very wise developmental ped frequently tells us, “there is so much that we can’t explain yet…I’m learning from the parents of our kids.” Not to say she’s dismissing the mainstream medical truths – but that she appreciates that we, as parents, might be more aware of our children’s true medical conditions than we’ve previously been given credit for.
If our doctors can appreciate our intervenions, why in the world should you care to dispute it?
Do’C you said…”Your claim that not much of any data exists is pure nonsense. Lots of data exists – making sense of it is a challenge though.”
That is what I was trying to convey…there is no concrete data that exists which show causal relationships between all the very, very different variables.
Holly, you are so very right! And something this group just isn’t understanding…parents who choose alternative types of healthcare (diet, biomed, supplements, vitamins) have done so because they feel failed by mainstream. They’ve played by all mainstreams rules, got their children vaccinated, took all the allergy tests, etc and were told “oh, sorry, nothing you can do”. Parents who catch wind there may be hope are shot down people like this group because no research proves it all to be true. Every single one of my son’s allergy tests are negative. Yet, when I give him gluten, casein, soy, rice, oats, corn, and all phenol/sal foods he acts like a monster, can’t sleep thru the night, etc. So, who do I listen to? My doctor telling me it is what it is or MY research & experience that proves otherwise?
And for those parents out there that are successful with diet and/or biomed and are so happy they chose to do something rather then nothing…what is your explanation…they are hallucinating?
Holly, you are factually incorrect regarding lactose intolerance.
Please see http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/l/lactose_intolerance/book-diseases-20a.htm
Chris, explain this to me, the last sentence…
“The median age of the 13 persons who died was 2 years (range: 4 months-18 years); seven persons who died were unvaccinated, and six were reported to have received one dose of measles vaccine.”
I would assume those who died with only one dose of the vaccine were not at the age yet to receive the second dose.
But, my question is…what were the parents who vaccinated their children thinking…”but my child was vaccinated??”
My point is I think vaccines give parents a false sense of security. And in many outbreaks I’ve read over 90% of the persons who contracted the measles were vaccinated.
Holly,
You may not have met one parent who believes GFCF to be a cure for autism, but the fact is that Karen Seroussi’s book, often recommended to parents, makes it clear that she believes her child was cured by the diet.
I have no serious objections to the GFCF diet, as long as it is done carefully from a nutritional point of view, and there is appropriate calcium supplementation.
I also have absolutely no quarrel with your story that your child feels better on the diet. I think that’s very plausible, and not only from an allergy/lactose intolerance point of view. I’m sure that kids on the diet eat less junk food than those not on the diet. Less additives, trans fats, artificial colors, etc.
What I don’t like about the diet is that if it doesn’t work for a child, the parent is made to feel guilty because they aren’t being careful enough. No separate toaster, non GFCF play-doh, bandaids, shampoo. Raising a child with special needs is tough enough, the parents don’t need this kind of additional stress or guilt trip if the diet isn’t working out.
jen, you asked your numbered questions of Do’C, but I’ll give you my answers.
1. Not only is there no clear evidence for an epidemic, the scientific consensus is that the true rate is not rising at all, or if it is, only be a very small amount. That small amount could be explained by many things, such as parents having their kids at older ages. Older parents are a known risk factor for autism.
It’s certainly not been debunked that genetics are a cause of autism. More and more genetic associations with autism are found every year. It’s just that it’s a complex disorder with many causes, so it’s taking a while to find them all. For an example of a recent study see:
https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=2244
2. The decision to remove thiomersal is discussed very thoroughly in the book “Autism’s False Prophets”. I’d recommend you read it. It was not made only on a scientific basis. Mercury was not replaced with aluminum. Aluminum was always there. They have different functions – aluminum is an adjuvant, it makes the vaccine work better, and thiomersal was a preservative.
3. HepB vaccination prevents a serious illness. It has been thoroughly tested and has a good safety record. Chicken pox can also be serious (of course not as serious as measles), and the scientific consensus is that it is worthwhile.
4. Contamination can be serious. But what evidence do you have that it happens frequently?
5. No.
6. The 100% immunity comes at a cost – deaths and disabilities.
jen, you should read this site. I know it’s a government site, but it’s Canadian, and not the evil US government 😉
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/vs-sv/factsfigs-eng.php
And from the site, explaining the reason why vaccinated kids appear to get disease in higher numbers:
2. The majority of people getting disease have been fully immunized.
This is another argument frequently found in anti-vaccine literature – the implication being that this proves vaccines are not effective. In fact it is true that in outbreaks occurring in highly vaccinated populations, the cases who were immunized often outnumber those who were not – even with vaccines such as measles, which we know to be about 90% to 95% effective in one dose.
This apparent paradox is explained by two factors. First, no vaccine is 100% effective. To make vaccines safer than the disease, the bacteria or virus is killed or weakened (attenuated). For reasons related to the individual, not all persons vaccinated will develop immunity. Most routine childhood vaccines have efficacy in the 85-90% range. Therefore, over the years there is a buildup of susceptible individuals (each year contributing 10% -15% of its cohort). Second, in a country like Canada with high immunization coverage, people who have been vaccinated vastly outnumber those who have not.
How these two factors work together to result in outbreaks where the majority of cases have been vaccinated can be more easily understood by looking at a hypothetical example:
In a high school of 1,000 students, none has ever had measles. All but 30 of the students have had their dose of measles vaccine, and so are considered vaccinated. However, among these 970, there would be about 97 who are not protected by the vaccine. When the student body is exposed to measles, every susceptible student becomes infected because measles is highly contagious. The 30 unvaccinated students will be infected, of course. But of the 970 who have been vaccinated, we would expect the 97 who are not protected to fall ill. Therefore 97/127, or about 76% of the cases are fully vaccinated.
As you can see, this doesn’t prove the vaccine didn’t work – only that most of the children in the class had been vaccinated, so the vaccine failures outnumbered the unvaccinated susceptibles. Looking at it another way, 100% of the children who were not vaccinated got measles, compared with only 10% of those who were. Measles vaccine protected most of the class; if nobody in the class had been vaccinated, there would have been 1,000 cases of measles. In this example, the vaccine was in fact 90% effective in preventing measles.
jen, I see you do not understand that vaccination is not 100% effective, especially when there is only dose. That is the point of herd immunity.
The point of the older paper was to show you that the vaccine is not a new one, and that it had been tested. Now tell me what are the conclusions?
You would have to ask the parents what they think. Read this to find out how some parents feel.
Cut and pasted from another blog I posted this on… Some herd immunity arithmetic:
Take 1000 people (ignoring the infants under 2 months who cannot be vaccinated, or babies under a year who can only be partially vaccinated), if 5% refuse vaccines then the numbers are:
950 vaccinated persons (assuming full schedule)
50 unvaccinated persons
The pertussis vaccine is actually only 80% effective at worse, so the numbers are:
760 protected persons
190 vaccinated but vulnerable persons
50 unvaccinated persons
There is an outbreak and it gets spread to 20% of the population, then:
760 protected persons without pertussis
38 vaccinated persons get pertussis
152 vaccinated person who may still get pertussis
10 unvaccinated persons get pertussis
40 unvaccinated persons who may still get pertussis.
This is how more vaccinated persons get the disease than unvaccinated. Even if the infection rate was at 100%, there would still be more of the vaccinated getting the diseases because there are more of them!
If you have issues with the government of the United States of America having a public health policy, and employees who are involved with public health issues that actually write papers: You are perfectly welcome to go find somewhere else to live. I have lived overseas, and I can think of some lovely places that would welcome your kind of thinking. Of course, none of them have any form of socialized medicine, or reliable public utilities.
Now could you kindly tell me the relative risks of the MMR vaccine versus getting the actual diseases of measles, mumps and rubella (you will notice there are tables in that paper showing some answers)? If you come to a conclusion that differs from the paper I have provided (and there are updated ones, look up at the several lists I have provided) please provide the journal, title, date and authors to show your work. News articles do not count.
Holly,
I wrote a comment about the GFCF diet, and it seems to have disappeared. Trying again:
The fact is that Karen Seroussi’s book is often recommended to parents, and that book says her kid was cured by the diet.
I have no objection to the diet, as long as the child is getting appropriate nutrition, particularly calcium supplements.
I also do believe you when you say that your child is better on the diet. Besides the possibility of allergies, children on the diet probably eat less junk food, less dyes and artificial additives, less trans fats and probably more fruits and vegetables than they did before. That’s got to be healthier.
My problem with the diet is that if it doesn’t work, people are not supposed to give up. They are told that it’s because they aren’t being careful enough, they don’t have separate toasters, GFCF play-doh or bandaids. Or they should be removing even more foods. It’s stressful enough raising a child with a disability, the parents don’t need additional unnecessary stress and guilt-trips.
Oh, and I don’t have objections to vitamin and mineral supplements given at the RDA level. My family all takes Vitamin D and fish oil supplements.
I’ve had a number of good comments in the spam trap lately. Sorry if it is taking time to break them loose, or if any get accidentally deleted.
Guest Blogger & Chris…when a perfectly healthy individual is given viruses that cause illness, the individual is going to manifest illness-related symptoms. This healthy individual is asked to maintain a low-level stimulation of illness. As long as you are in a low level state of illness you are not in a high level state of health. Therefore, vaccines provide protection by keeping the body in a diseased state of health. Often the person will not manifest the illness it is vaccinated for, at least not in its acute form, but it will manifest in other conditions. Usually these conditions are inherited weaknesses. Chronic symptoms look very much like the acute illnesses but they are often not life-threatening unless allowed to continue for years and years.
Please provide the documentation to support your statements. Unless properly referenced we are going to assume you just made it up.
jen, you might find this book helpful.
By the way, this is a pretty good primer on immunity and vaccines (oh, and yes, it has the evil .gov in it… oooh, scary!):
Click to access prinvac.pdf
Here is another overview of vaccines and autism, with the nicer and kinder “.org”:
http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/reference/vaccines-and-autism/
Chris, I’ll get to that in a bit first but…
I know you don’t agree with allowing the body to work as is, unassisted by drugs but I know you would agree and understand the body has incredible capacity to provide protection against all sorts of invaders (after-all that is your claim to fame in regards to our body being able to handle vaccines)…
But what about having the best of both worlds? What do any of you think about the possibly of an alternative to vaccines? Lets break it down…if our approach to protection is from the standpoint of supporting the body in doing its job, which it already knows how to do, we are working at a more fundamental level. If we support the energy and physical systems of the body we will support the immune system, not overload it. Clean hygiene, good nutrition, clean water, plenty of exercise, vitamins like C, zinc, etc – constitutional treatments (preferably homeopathic). I know, I know, your governmental data provided proves good hygiene and nutrition have nothing to do with the decline of diseases but others studies contradict that information so, who’s telling the truth????
But anyway, not to get off point, have you ever considered the use of isopathy (or nosodes). Has that ever crossed anyone’s mind? I think all that verbiage above sounds just too darn simplistic (and doesn’t have the ring of the ching$$ching).
And FYI Chris, I love where I live! I love America! No where else I’d rather live! Please don’t insult me by assuming otherwise. Just because I can see, with my own two eyes, and choose not to live in denial, that there is corruption going on within my governmental system as well as pharmaceutical companies all over the world doesn’t mean I love my America any less! In fact, its the love I have for America and its people that I continuously dig deeper!!
Chris said: “oh, and yes, it has the evil .gov in it… oooh, scary!”
Not opposed, not scared…just provide me with some variety!! That’s all I’m putting down, ya dig??
“But what about having the best of both worlds? What do any of you think about the possibly of an alternative to vaccines? Lets break it down…if our approach to protection is from the standpoint of supporting the body in doing its job, which it already knows how to do, we are working at a more fundamental level.”
The stoopid is strong with this one. Jen, really? Are you so clueless that you think a vaccine like the MMR simply “does what the body already knows how to do”? Here’s a hint, the body does not convert the Measles, Mumps, and Rubella antigens into attenuated viruses which elicit an immune response and offer protection (direct and indirect via herd immunity) for many, without contracting the disease itself (and subsequently adding to the risk of illness, complication, mental retardation, mortality, etc.).
Jeebus, take a 10th grade biology class or something.
“If we support the energy and physical systems of the body we will support the immune system, not overload it. Clean hygiene, good nutrition, clean water, plenty of exercise, vitamins like C, zinc, etc – constitutional treatments (preferably homeopathic).”
Oh lord, magic water!
“But anyway, not to get off point, have you ever considered the use of isopathy (or nosodes). Has that ever crossed anyone’s mind?”
And wowee, magic saliva, pus, urine, blood, or diseased tissue!
Somebody buy Jen a drink, either she’s super funny, or she really got a raw deal with her education.
CEF said…”the body does not convert the Measles, Mumps, and Rubella antigens into attenuated viruses which elicit an immune response and offer protection (direct and indirect via herd immunity) for many, without contracting the disease itself (and subsequently adding to the risk of illness, complication, mental retardation, mortality, etc.).”
Noooo, really???
The primary intention of the vaccine is to produce a stimulation to the cellular immune system, via the production of antibodies. Antibodies attach onto the virus and render it inactive and harmless. Its thru this stimulation and resultant production of antibodies that the body is now prepared for a possible ‘attack’ by ‘foreign invaders’ later down the line. These invaders are typically known as bacteria or viruses. This immunity will later provide protection without having to go through the disease itself…I get it, thanks!
It seems you all are willing to go to such great lengths to dismiss nature and reward some guys in white coats who claim they can solve it all. Among the zillion things I have a problem with in regards to vaccines…as far as multiple or triple vaccines, like MMR, are concerned this process of injecting numerous viruses at one time into the body does not mimic in any way what we would see in the natural world. There would never be such an enormous exposure to that many microorganisms at one time. … These diseases have never, in the real world, occurred at one time, never. Doesn’t that raise any red flags for you? Of course not, your head is stuck in a lab.
As much as I value & admire the way body was designed I don’t totally discount medicine & science however, isn’t there anything that is telling you when is enough, enough? Isn’t there anything telling you the chemicals, pollution, vaccine ingredients, & etc are just not how it was supposed to be and their is a imbalance of sorts? Not trying to be the crazy guy standing on the street corner holding the sign that says “the end is near” but I’m trying to be responsible.
And the “magic water” you refer to has been around a long time. I’m sure you know the history, I don’t need to explain. But come on…how could you totally disregard it and imply it could be of no use or could not be the answer???
Again, I ask, why can’t we have the best of both worlds? Its not totally far-fetched or unrealistic. Why can’t their be a balance of medicine and homeopathic treatments?
We will continue to battle new viruses or battle old ones that resurface and if we continue on this path, not allowing our body to act as it was intended, we will be in very dangerous territory.
Kev, where is Nightstorm’s delete?
I’m down with mother nature. I know Chris would totally disagree as he’s super stuck on MMR but I’m ok with mother nature’s use of acute illness to thin out the population, whereby the fittest survive. Everything in nature has a rhythm, everything. The rhythm of polio, of measles, of influenza, are all on a schedule. I’ll tell you what thou, not down with CPC (Center for Population Control) determining the how’s and why’s the population will be thinned out. I know you will all come back with crap saying…”you’d rather have a dead kid over an Autistic kid!” Come on, you can’t really use that as an argument! Its just a ridiculous statement. I trust the natural progression of life vs some man-made trickery system destined to fail.
Jen,
You are a troll.
Kev, are all the jens coming from the same IP?
Why am I a troll?? And why do question I’m coming from the same IP???
Come on…argue with me!!!! You are the master of name-calling. You know what KW you remind me of Charlie Brown’s mom…”wawawaaaawawwa” or better yet, the guy with the big monster truck and big muscles…trying to overcompensate.
Guest Blogger, in response to earlier questions I had, stated he/she didn’t seem too worried about possibility of vaccine contamination. Below is a link, something I came across a while back, that discusses contamination via vaccines. Before you rag on me about this author’s validity, I want to state I’ve never heard of this man, don’t know what his intention is, have no way to verify if he is a quack or not BUT his information is well written and his journal sources seem to check out.
http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/vaccine_awareness/through_the_needle.html
Just to name a few…Paragraphs that concern me are the following…
“in spite of manufacturers and regulatory agencies claiming efficacy of their testing procedures, one 2001 study found 13% of human MMR, polio, or Streptococcus pneumoniae vaccines tested positive for pestivirus RNA (19). And another researcher observes, ?serum antibodies against BVDV have been detected in approximately 30% of human population who had no contact with potentially infected animals.?(16) Also, ?pestiviruses adapted to human cell cultures may be harmful because serious BVDV infections in humans have been frequently suggested?The BVDV persistently infected in cell cultures used for vaccine productions have been shown to be a source of contamination in live virus vaccines. It is, therefore, prerequisite to examine pestivirus contamination in cell cultures to avoid secondary infections in humans as well as in animals.?(20)”
“A letter from the FDA to vaccine manufacturers dated as recently as March 2001 shows that this issue regarding immortal cell lines is still of concern. It states, ?In general, CBER [Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research] currently views Vero cells as an acceptable substrate for viral vaccines, but has residual concerns?CBER recommends that all products derived from Vero cells be free of residual intact Vero cells. If your manufacturing process does not include a validated filtration step or other validated procedure to clear residual intact Vero cells from the product, please incorporate such a procedure into your manufacturing process.?(24) It is now 16 years after the WHO gave a go-ahead (in 1986) to use continuous cell lines for vaccine production (25), and yet there are very basic safety questions not resolved by the manufacturers, agencies, and scientific community, much less the finer details (26, 27). One 1991 study reports: ?Cell substrate DNA was shown to be an abundant contaminant in the clarified preparations of the Sabin type 1, 2 and 3 poliovaccines produced on a continuous cell line?(28). Another indicates that immortal cell lines showed 100-times greater number of DNA recombination events compared to normal cells (29). As one researcher states, ?Using neoplastic cell lines as substrates for vaccine development could inadvertently result in viral-viral or viral-cellular interactions whose biological consequences are unclear?viral-viral and viral-cellular interactions can result in the generation of new retroviruses with pathological consequences.?(30). We note the term ?neoplastic? means the quality of having an abnormal growth characteristic.”
“It has taken, for instance, approximately forty years for the scientific community to finally acknowledge that we have a serious problem as a result of the contamination of polio vaccines with simian virus 40 (SV40) in the late 1950s-early 1960s. There has been previous evidence of some human brain and other tumors containing this virus (32, 33), but the medical community has been slow to acknowledge a definitive link between SV40 and cancer in humans. However, two independent research teams have recently found this virus present in 43% of cases of non-Hodgkins lymphoma (34, 35). Another study found it present in 36% of brain tumors, 16% of healthy blood cell samples, and 22% of healthy semen samples (36). And strangely, SV40 has now been found to infect children (37). Considering that children of this era, are not supposed to be receiving the virus via the vaccine contamination route, this would therefore imply that SV40 is being transmitted from one human to another, in ways not previously known.”
When I started researching (or lit review…sorry KW) I began to become increasingly worried about DNA. I’m interested to read your point of view in regards to the probability that the adding of DNA to vaccines could cause issues down the line?
Why are you a troll? Really? You sure sound like Lurker.
I’m having a hard time reconciling all the different Jens that have posted here into the same person who writes this on her blog: “I’m a typical gal who’s just trying to be the best mommy and wife she can be and get the most out of my life by growing and learning! We have 2 beautiful lil ones together and I have 2 super awesome step kids. Our 1st born son has many food allergies/sensitivities and I’m working hard everyday to feed my son! I’m all about sharing ideas and recipes! Any recipes or tips that can help us…please I’m all ears!! Or eyes I guess!”
Regardless of whether this Jen is the same as all the others isn’t relevant. I try not to argue with people who are obviously not sound of mind or capable of sound reasoning. Either way, all the same or more than one person, no point. Troll.
Master of name-calling? Really? I don’t think so, but you could look over at Thelma and Louise’s. They, along with some of their friends, are masters of name-calling. If you think calling you a troll makes me the master, well, you ain’t seen nothing. Seriously.
WOW! KW, I think what you just did…you should be prosecuted. I’d appreciate if Kevin and/or Sullivan would please delete that previous post. That wacko somehow found my blog and is now posting my profile information. This is a violation as I did not grant him/her such access. My blog is in place to help others with recipe issues. Because of him/her, if this post by KW is not taken down I will have to remove my post. This has NO relation to our current conversation! This is sick and outrageous to put it mildly. I suggest you converse with this person and warn him.
He/she is involving my children by posting to this group, who has no reason to hear about, their information. I first of all, can’t believe this person is saying I have more then one IP addresses because a mom can’t have an argument??? What a fucking weirdo!
This person is so threatened by me because I want to argue a very valid point that he/she goes to the trouble of posing my blog profile?????????????????
IS ANYONE GETTING MY POSTS???????????? CAN YOU PLEASE REMOVE THE SECTION WHERE THIS NUT JOB, WHO IS INTENTIONALLY LOOKING MY INFO UP, IS POSTING MY BLOG PROFILE INFORMATION???????????????????????? CAN YOU PLEASE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS?????????????????
WELL, WHAT A WASTE OF 4 DAYS. THANKS TO KW WHO CAN’T CARRY ON AN EDUCATED DEBATE, THEN LURKING WHEN THINGS DON’T GO HIS/HER WAY, AND FINDING SOMEONE’S BLOG THEN POSTING THEIR PROFILE INFO…I’M DONE. THANKS TO YOUR BUDDY KW I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR YOU LURKERS AND WACKOS. ITS OBVIOUS YOUR GOAL IN LIFE IS TO SEEK OUT OTHERS INFORMATION, POST, AND MOCK. I RESPECT THOSE WHO HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS AND VIEWS ON THE WORLD, ESPECIALLY VACCINES BUT WHAT THIS NUT JOB IS THE MOST DISGUSTING THING I’VE EVER SEEN A HUMAN BEING DO. WHEN THE HEAT IS ON, DON’T FRET, KW WILL FIND THEIR INFO AND MAKE FUN OF THEM. YEAH, GREAT DEBATE. WACKO
Ok KWombles…aka cat lady…
http://kwombles.com/index.html
are you serious?????? you are judging me and sharing my info???? Really??? Are you teaching people???? If I find out you are a part of some university….
http://kwombles.com/gp2301mainpage.html
ok, here is your blog
http://www.counteringageofautism.blogspot.com/
I think you need a psychiatrist! I assumed you were a man. I am shocked a woman would post profile info on another woman. No wonder you are the cat lady!
You know, none of that information is hidden, nor have I attempted to hide it; many of the posters here are aware of my sites and have commented at them. In fact, my blog is linked to my name.
Your blog is public. You posted your name on this blog. I googled your name. Not hard to do. Took a minute. That’s all. In fact, it was even easier than that. You’ve linked to it at the public forum on autism and mercury.
I simply wanted to make sure that the person who said that people should die from acute illnesses so that the population could be thinned was the same person who could and did write that blog. Barring Kev or Sullivan saying it’s a different IP, I’ll have to assume you are in fact one person who has posted all of the things you have here.
I’m pretty sure that I’m not the one coming across as a nutjob.
Oh, you’ve wounded me, I’m the cat lady. Guilty as charged.
Nope wacko, never posted my name on this site. Google my name and there are WAY too many with the same name you would never know. Yep, that is where you and Guest Blogger are members of…Autism-Mercury group. Wait, you and Guest Blogger lurking on the same group…mmmm, wonder…are you the same person????
You simply what…wanted to what?? “I simply wanted to make sure that the person who said that people should die from acute illnesses so that the population could be thinned was the same person who could and did write that blog. Barring Kev or Sullivan saying it’s a different IP, I’ll have to assume you are in fact one person who has posted all of the things you have here.”
Your right, wacko woman, I trust our bodies and God to dictate how we will naturally be killed off. It will be how it will be. That saying…the good die young…it sounds like it has some truth!
Just cause you can’t bring anything to the table in regards to data and/or evidence doesn’t make it right to publicize someones info without them knowing. In all reality, I don’t care that everyone here knows I’m a good mom and love to learn and understand the ways of the world…its just you couldn’t fight so you just had to post such info??? Its very comical and I feel pity for you and your family. It just reassess how wonderful I have it and how right I am. Your other buddies made me think for a second…they almost most had me…but, you had to come in posting personal info cause you just couldn’t fight fair. I seriously doubt anyone credible will be calling you soon to help them debate! What a joke you really are! And you teach, even bigger joke! Holy cow, I’d ask for my $$ back, pronto!
jen, I can’t take seriously any article that begins with
“In recent times mankind is experiencing a situation never previously encountered, that being the threat of release of pathogens intended to kill or disable large numbers of people. That danger has prompted certain health agencies to prepare for possible mass vaccination of the populace. ”
Shades of the Illuminati, anyone?
You’re right, you only posted Jennifer L. here.
And then you wrote about this post on the open forum. Where your link and your name are. You’re right, you didn’t post your whole name here. But you did there and you made it clear you were the same.
Get a grip. If you get found, it’s because you put it out there. I didn’t link back to your blog. I didn’t provide your whole name. Your posts have been inconsistent as hell. It was reasonable to hope the assy, offensive ones were someone using your name.
Make up your mind. If vaccines are bad but you want people to die naturally, let survival of the fittest take the course, then have the decency to fall all the way down the line and don’t avail yourself of any medicines or surgeries. Might as well get the vaccines.
And I don’t belong to that group, never heard of it until this post. And when I went and looked, your post complaining about this blog was on top. Right there for everyone to see.
I do see, though, that you are one person and all those separate comments can be squarely placed at your feet. Good to know.
OK, I’m through being polite with jen. You know, jen, KWombles and Guest Blogger are two completely different people. It’s only you who uses multiple sock puppets to try to pretend you have a lot of support on your side.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Autism-Mercury/message/266473
Posted by Jennifer Lewis
gizbaby123
I know when we put ourselves out there via internet we should expect that there is always a possibility someone out there will get a hold of your information.
I’m ok with that, but what this woman did is despicable and I want every group to know this woman is/has joined certain yahoo groups only to use people’s info, stories, etc against them…to make fun or mock those who are anti-vaxxers or those who are pro-gfcf diet &/or biomed. 4 days ago I tried to defend a mother,
whose words were copied and pasted from a yahoo group then made to sound like a horrible mother because of biomed treatments, and when this woman had no argument for me she decided to take my blog profile info and post on the groups comments for everyone to see. I am saddened and disgusted this woman, who from the looks of her blog is a teacher of some sort, is lurking on groups for the sheer enjoyment of making fun of parents who choose to do something about their child’s Autism. I don’t want to stoop to this woman’s level but I feel it is my moral duty as a
member of each group to share this person’s info with the group in hopes the
list owner will delete this person based on the fact she has no intention of positive contribution to the group(s).
Here are her email address… Kim.Wombles@…
wombles@…
Here is her blog address…
http://kwombles.com/index.html
Here is her class notes/syllabus info…
http://kwombles.com/gp2301mainpage.html
And here is her blog address/link…
http://www.counteringageofautism.blogspot.com/
more blog addresses of her’s…
http://www.kwomblesengl1301.blogspot.com/
I must say, she really loves to use the word woo!
Jennifer
“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I can’t change;
courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference.”
jen,
Is it fair to say that you think your posts like “OT: Lurker Alert…” and “What the heck is wrong with this person…” are not publicly available for any and all of us to see? If so, you are very much mistaken. As I pointed out way (way, way) up thread, Autism-Mercury list posts are a simple search away. No membership required.
Thank you jypsy (who BTW, is not Guest Blogger either).
You, jen, have personally done more to stop the discussion of woo on the yahoo groups than I could have hoped for. Thanks to you, all those parents are now aware that their decisions to “treat” their children in this way are not taking place in the privacy of the group-think of those little echo chambers.
Thank you very much (and I mean that sincerely).
Guest Blogger, signing out.
jen:
Only because you will not answer the question, or more accurately cannot answer the question.
Interesting how you think children with health issues like my oldest do not deserve to live. I asked you earlier if you were okay with the one out of a thousand dying from measles. You are okay with the large numbers of deaths and disabilities returning to families.
Also, you are revealing in that you cannot answer a question with real science when you say:
Well, you have not really come up with those studies to contradict any of the information I have provided, have you? Yes, sanitation is good… but measles has returned to Japan, UK, New Zealand, Germany and Switzerland. Has sanitation changed in those countries?
Do you have a clue as to what homeopathy or isopathy are? Do you really think that diluting a substance to the point where the original substance is no longer in the solution actually works? Do you know that Nat Mur 30C consists of 1 part of salt (Nat Mur is made of sea salt) to 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 (that should be 60 zeros) parts of water/alcohol … and then dropped on a sugar pill? Do you know what Avogadro’s Number is, and why it is pertinent to homeopathy?
jen:
No, not really. You have shown us that you are quite obsessive, evasive, have very little concept of any real science, and you spend lots of time on anti-vax websites. So much time that you just parrot their same old points, without even bothering to check it out on your own.
You have shown us what your position is, and how it lacks in facts and compassion. Thanks
Kwombles:
If Jen wanted people to die naturally, and really believed in survival of the fittest, she would not go to all sorts of trouble to give her children a restricted diet. Children who cannot get protein from readily available sources like grain and milk should not get to survive.
If she really truly believed only those with the best genes should survive, those with food allergies should be weeded out.
Actually, I don’t think she ever thought that through to its obvious conclusion.
Just wanted to concur with James’ comment, as another autistic who grew up undiagnosed. It’s a life like any one: tough, but worth living.
You people crack me up. You just can’t stop. You can’t handle anyone disagreeing with you. As I’ve stated many times…my son would have not had all these allergy issues had it not been for vaccines. That’s what I keep puttin down but you just don’t get. These poor kids are being sacrificed (Asthma, Allergies, Autism, Ear Infections, Arthritis, etc) in the name of keeping them “healthy”. He wouldn’t have had all these diet issues and thus weakness wouldn’t have been an issue. Many woo talkers, what you would term me to be, don’t remember what it was like for polio, measles, etc, right…isn’t that what you say? Talk to any generation from the past…did they talk about having a kid who felt better on the gfcf diet, how about if they even knew such a child…did then even know what the heck gluten was? Did you hear about a kid who couldn’t participate in Gym class cause of his Asthma? How about Cancer?? I actually LOVE to talk to the elders in my community. Its sooo intriguing to me. My neighbor, who hails from Germany some 45yrs ago, remembers having the German measles and said it was the best week of her life. She got to stay at home from school and read “Gone with the Wind”. I asked her about Cancer, Asthma, food allergies. She said, as I’ve already been told, these things didn’t exist back then.
So, what has changed???? As I stated previously, numerous times, no one wants to be the odd ball…no one wants to think they are putting their child in harms way. Always, no matter how much research I do, the common denominator is vaccines. I can look at all the scientific data all day long but I can’t ignore common sense and logic.
And, even though KW has this love for mocking others who don’t have the same views (but refuses to provide any data on her behalf), I don’t have any disrespect for those who feel differently. If someone says they don’t agree with vaccines…no problem, if someone says they want to vaccinate…ok, what ever…my 1st reaction is I hope they know the risks and benefits, and those who either suffer for Autism or have children on the spectrum…I have much respect and love for them and treat them the same.
I think you all would have more people behind you if you were a bit “nicer” in your ways. If you want respect you need to treat others the same. Don’t be a haters. As some rap artists say…don’t hate the players…hate the game…or at least that is how it goes…I think lol!
Maybe, for just a second, try and view the situation from anthers perspective…not saying be them, do as they do, become brainwashed…just try and understand. No matter which way you look at it this is a hard road for anyone…being a NT person in this world is a hard enough. Regardless of our color, race, religion, height, weight, gender, etc if we could stand behind each other and encourage each other no matter how we choose to live I think the dialogue would be more effective. Ok, maybe I’m living a John Lennon song, but imo, anything really is possible.
Another thing…you all mention you aren’t real big fans of AoA, Jenny McCarthy, Generation Rescue, etc. That is totally FINE with me. But would you admit, no matter what “group” you side with or meld with, everyone just wants the best for the children of America? Everyone wants to understand the how’s and why’s and how to make life on this planet as good as possible for everyone? Why do you have to have such hate and negative tones with others? It makes you, those w/ such tones, sound very bitter and others won’t want to open up and discuss their feelings. Again, if you want others to understand being anti-vaxx and all the woo crap then try a different tactic and maybe you’d get a bit farther. I notice on your fb, blogs, and other internet groups/outlets you all don’t have much following. Maybe having a more positive attitude with others and trying to accept those with a different opinion, just as you want others to accept Autism as is, will get you further faster.
I am convinced, not because of woo following or brainwashing…way before I even knew what a darn yahoo group was, my child has issues because his immune system could not properly handle vaccines. Again, I feel it imperative parents are properly educated and understand what each vaccine contains and what the possible reactions could be. Your tone makes me feel that I’m not allowed that right. Well, I am. And you shouldn’t get so mad if others don’t agree. Just get over it already.
You people crack me up. You just can’t stop. You can’t handle anyone disagreeing with you in any shape or form. As I’ve stated many times…my son would have not had all these allergy issues had it not been for vaccines. That’s what I keep puttin down but you just choose not to listen or believe what me or anyone else is telling you. Your data says not true so you turn your head at anyone who’s lips are moving in the other direction. These poor kids are being sacrificed (Asthma, Allergies, Autism, Ear Infections, Arthritis, etc) in the name of keeping them “healthy”. My guy wouldn’t have had all these diet issues and thus weakness wouldn’t have been an issue. Many woo talkers, what you would term me to be, don’t remember what it was like for polio, measles, etc, right…isn’t that what you say? Talk to any generation from the past…did they talk about having a kid who felt better on the gfcf diet, how about if they even knew such a child…did then even know what the heck gluten was? Did you hear about a kid who couldn’t participate in Gym class cause of his Asthma? How about Cancer?? I actually LOVE to talk to the elders in my community. Its sooo intriguing to me. My neighbor, who hails from Germany some 45yrs ago, remembers having the German measles and said it was the best week of her life. She got to stay at home from school and read “Gone with the Wind”. I asked her about Cancer, Asthma, food allergies. She said, as I’ve already been told, these things didn’t exist back then. I know, these illnesses are very dangerous. We better hurry up and vaccinate these kids from everything.
So, what has changed from my generation vs my 80yr old neighbor’s generation???? As I stated previously, numerous times, no one wants to be the odd ball…no one wants to think they are putting their child in harms way. Always, no matter how much research I do, the common denominator is vaccines. I can look at all the scientific data all day long but I can’t ignore common sense and logic.
And, even though KW has this love for mocking others who don’t have the same views (but refuses to provide any data on her behalf), I don’t have any disrespect for those who feel differently. If someone says they don’t agree with vaccines…no problem, if someone says they want to vaccinate…ok, what ever…my 1st reaction is I hope they know the risks and benefits, and those who either suffer for Autism or have children on the spectrum…I have much respect and love for them and treat them the same.
I think you all would have more people behind you if you were a bit “nicer” in your ways. If you want respect you need to treat others the same. Don’t be a haters. As some rap artists say…don’t hate the players…hate the game…or at least that is how it goes…I think lol!
Maybe, for just a second, try and view the situation from anthers perspective…not saying be them, do as they do, become brainwashed…just try and understand. No matter which way you look at it this is a hard road for anyone…being a NT person in this world is a hard enough. Regardless of our color, race, religion, height, weight, gender, etc if we could stand behind each other and encourage each other no matter how we choose to live I think the dialogue would be more effective. Ok, maybe I’m living a John Lennon song, but imo, anything really is possible.
Another thing…you all mention you aren’t real big fans of AoA, Jenny McCarthy, Generation Rescue, etc. That is totally FINE with me. But would you admit, no matter what “group” you side with or meld with, everyone just wants the best for the children of America? Everyone wants to understand the how’s and why’s and how to make life on this planet as good as possible for everyone? Why do you have to have such hate and negative tones with others? It makes you, those w/ such tones, sound very bitter and others won’t want to open up and discuss their feelings. Again, if you want others to understand being anti-vaxx and all the woo crap then try a different tactic and maybe you’d get a bit farther. I notice on your fb, blogs, and other internet groups/outlets you all don’t have much following. Maybe having a more positive attitude with others and trying to accept those with a different opinion, just as you want others to accept Autism as is, will get you further faster.
I am convinced, not because of woo following or brainwashing…way before I even knew what a darn yahoo group was, my child has issues because his immune system could not properly handle vaccines. Again, I feel it imperative parents are properly educated and understand what each vaccine contains and what the possible reactions could be. Your tone makes me feel that I’m not allowed that right. Well, I am. And you shouldn’t get so mad if others don’t agree. I’m open to hearing another version or another side. I just don’t get those who aren’t willing to do that same??? Everything the anti-vaxxers showed you or dialogued you totally dismiss. In this forum, you did not, in any way shape or form have the same respect back. You can talk and talk and talk but in the end its just your small group of people who are listening. As you instructed me to get more biology instruction maybe the same would be for you in understand how to effectively listen and communicate. Maybe you don’t care what others think. However, I find that hard to believe, if that were true you wouldn’t be so public with your opinions.
David brown
I don’t eat sea food, canned foods, use deoterant with alumium ect….I have a grandfather that died of alzheimers.
chris agian thermirsol was NEVER removed from childhood vaccinations. they are STILL in vaccinations. they were never required to be taken out only suggested. since there is nothing to inforce places haven’t been required to do any changes….and those that DID change didn’t recall things so they were on the shelves years after they stopped making it
“What real data do you have that shows the relative risks between the MMR vaccine and the actual diseases of measles, mumps and rubella?”
again until someone takes the time to call on all those VAERS and it be released to the public (which is it’s all under lock and key and not even avalible to lawyers, we all sit and wait! that is part of our argument!
no studies to show things being safe espeically in high combo’s like kids are getting and negitive reactions being recorded. but that would of course also meaning taking responsibility for those reactions so we ALL know that is far off
heck there are 4000 cases in waiting and thosands of others who haven’t even been allowed to file till those 4000 cases are decided……. now lets see we then know at least that many families have been damaged
Guest Blogger
none of this is all about a moms dream, it’s about our kids life.
second moms aren’t out there doing all these IV’s and blood draws ect. many of the tests parents do are urine and stool testing, we don’t do many more blood draws then regular kids ect for PANDAS which is the only way to test progress. most parents on groups aren’t doing IV chelation. many do oral. parents doing endoscopes do so because they have years of cronic direah with out growth in their kids. which any GI would recommend to see what is going on, ANY sick kid with medical problems should address that. why wouldn’t they? why wouldn’t you??
autism isn’t something that always gets better. I have an autistic kid I worked with as a teen. he is now 22. no farther along then he was then. I know others with biomedical that waited for years till kids were 7-8 years old and hadn’t made gains with therapies ect which is WHY they ended up in the biomedical stream finding answers for the first time. you all should be greatful there are parents out there doing this to help kids before SSI crashes and we have mega institutes to all be building to put kids like my son would have been if we hadn’t gone the route we did
yeah I can’t spell, not my gift, doesn’t bother me, aparently it does you! my kids doing great! thanks to biomed, doesn’t require spelling, I type fast! so things some times get left out letter wise. don’t be OCD move on….how is YOUR child doing?>
Christel,
Marks for consistency…
As far as the question of recall, that is not how vaccine distribution works. Vaccines are perishable, and are issued with clearly visible expiration dates. Also, vaccines are returnable, so there is no incentive for distributors to try to sell expired vaccines. (By all serious accounts, there’s relatively little profit in vaccination anyway.) The only places I could see expired vaccines being an issue is third-world countries, which I suspect are the source of the vast majority of actual, current vaccine injuries.
Guest Blogger
wow we differ on more roads then one. autism has soared. you can talk to any teacher in the school system that has worked 20 years and they will tell you they never had loads of kids like this! that doesn’t have to measure adults now or then, you compair kid numbers with kid numbers.
I can walk down the block either way and run into neighbors on each side with kids on specturm,