Truth and Consequences – The Anti-Vaccination Movement Exacts a Price

23 Sep

“I feel like getting in my car, driving away and never coming back. I can’t stand it anymore. If the screaming, howling, humming, and screeching doesn’t stop I will lose my mind. 14 hours a day. From the second he open his eyes until the second he closes them there is noise. Even if you tell him to be quiet he sits there and says “be quiet…be quiet” over and over. Not more than 10 seconds goes by where some ridiculous sound isn’t coming out of my son. He talks in a high pitched screechy voice that makes every nerve ending stand on end. He screeches and screams for no reason. The humming, the high pitched humming all day long. I can’t take it. My head hurts so bad and there are only so many things I can take for a headache. I wake up at 7 am, or rather I am awakened by screeching at 7am and get no peace until about 9pm. By then my head hurts so much it doesn’t matter. I can’t get anything done because I can’t focus with the noise in the background. I can’t have a phone call. I can’t have a conversation in person. I know this is going to upset some people but I swear, I miss the days when he didn’t make a peep. not a single peep. I remember when I used to cry and ask him to talk to me, to say anything. I should have been more specific and wished he’d speak and make meaningful sentances rather than walk around all day and say meaningless phrases over and over, and scream and screech when he didn’t. know what meaningless phrase to use at the moment. I have about 40 minutes before he goes to bed then I get to listen to him hum himself to sleep for an hour. By then I should be ready to jump off a roof.

Thanks for letting me vent. Not sure if it made me feel better but at least if I jump off the roof someone knows why”

Posted by “Mary”, mother of “Saul”, age 7.9 (7 years, 9 months), to an autism “biomedical treatment” yahoo group in August 2009.

The idea that vaccines might be a cause of autism has received a great deal of attention from the media. Scientifically, the question has been thoroughly investigated and thoroughly discredited.

Legally, the idea has also been rejected. The Autism Omnibus case bundled the claims of almost 5000 children against the Vaccine Injury Compensation program. In the hearings for the first of three theories of causation, the lawyers for the parents and their children chose the strongest three cases to illustrate their claim that MMR vaccines and thimerosal-containing vaccines can combine to cause autism. On February 12, 2009, all three cases were dismissed. The decisions were scathing, stating that “the overall weight of the evidence is overwhelmingly contrary to the petitioners’ causation theories.” Moreover, parents were characterized as a “loving, caring, and courageous” family “misled by physicians who are guilty of gross medical misjudgment. In June and July of 2009, all test cases were appealed, and all three were dismissed.

The yahoo group “Environment of Harm” formerly “Evidence of Harm”, was established to discuss the book of the latter title, written by journalist David Kirby. The focus of the group is to discuss

“issues of government public health negligence and corruption and the various political efforts by parents to end the spectrum of epidemics that is being revealed as mercury poisoning, especially autism.”

From March 2005, the date of the book’s publication, until February 2009, when the Omnibus legal decisions were rendered, the group received an average of over 2000 posts per month. Since the rulings, the posting rate has dropped to only 800 per month, perhaps indicating that the issue is also losing momentum from a political point of view.

The mainstream media, the groups such as the AAP, and the blog sphere have also pushed back in an effort to educate the public on the harm done by the vaccines cause autism groups.

But behind the scientific and legal consensus that vaccines do not cause autism lies a hidden world, the autism “biomedical” yahoo- and chat-group world. There is no decline in the number of posts in this world. It’s a thriving, and growing community, one that has fueled the popularity of the anti-vaxers, and the certainty of those parents who consider their child “vaccine-injured”. It has spurred the spending of millions of dollars on supplements, hyperbaric treatments, off-label prescription medications, and myriad other autism “biomedical treatments”. These “treatments” are almost all of no proven benefit, some are ridiculous, some relatively benign, and many potentially dangerous. This article will explore the journey of one mother, “Mary” in her efforts to cure her son “Saul”. While the case of Mary and Saul, documented in her own words is shocking and appalling, Mary is not alone nor is she an extreme case. She is one of thousands of parents seeking autism “biomedical treatments” on the internet.

We first meet Mary in October 2003, when her son Saul (born November 2001) was only 22 months of age. She began posting on the group NLT (for a description of the yahoo groups discussed in this article see the section at the end). She stated that her son

“is basically non verbal. He said his first word, duck, at 7 months old. About a month later he said light, off , and on, but dropped duck. This set a pattern for him. Anytime he learned a new word he dropped any old words he had used at that point. Now, his only real words are Mama and Dada. He will on a rare occassion say car. He has had and lost about 20 words since 7 months of age.”

Shortly thereafter, he was evaluated by early intervention, and psychologist wrote PDD on his evaluations, along with the term Autistic-like. Mary was told that he was not autistic, but he’s autistic like. 10-20 hours a week of intensive in home therapy (ABA) was recommended.

So, Saul is a very young child, showing speech delay and signs of autism, evaluated very quickly, and almost immediately started on early intervention. Of course, Mary is understandably upset:

“I don’t know why I’m so upset. He (the psychologist) didn’t say anything I didn’t already know or suspect. I guess its just because my fears were realized. Rather than come in and say “oh no, he’s fine, he’s just a late talker” I heard what I was hoping not too. I’m sure that somehow to some degree this is my fault. Saul was such a quiet content infant, and he was content to play by himself as he got older I sort of went with it. I figured he was happy let me go do dishes, or laundry or whatever and let him entertain himself. Yeah that was great but now he is only happy by himself and turns in to himself and its my fault I know it is.”

Recent research (two links:here and here) has looked at the impact of parental acceptance of their child’s autism diagnosis. It was found that parents who do not come to a resolution (i.e. come to terms with and accept the diagnosis and its implications) find raising their child more difficult. In the case of Mary, we will see a real-life example of a mother failing to come to terms with her child’s PDD.

Here’s Mary again:

Thank you everyone for your support. I’m sorry I forgot to mention Saul’s age. He will be 2 at the end of the month.

I’m feeling a lot better but still overwhelmed. I want to read as much as possible so I can do the best to help him but I think I need a little time to come to terms.

A few questions though if anyone knows…Do kids diagnosed with PDD always end up as special ed or is their hope with therapy he main go mainstream. The reason I ask is that my cousin teaches 5th grade special d and the majority of her kids are PDD kids, and have been in special ed since kindergarten. What are the odds that my child will grow up, go to college and lead what is considered a normal life?

Also, I was reading about a special diet that gluten free that is supposedly helpful. Has anyone tried this?

Should I just go with the system for say 6 mos or so and see how he responds and progresses before trying anything different like diet changes or supplements.

Sorry if I’m asking a million questions. My brain is spinning and all the websites I go to just overwhelm me more. Everyone here seems to have such a wealth of knowledge, and more importantly personal experience and understanding.”

This message signals the start of a frightening journey into the realms of woo. The “treatments” inflicted on Saul are very painful to read. Mary joined numerous autism “biomedical treatment” yahoo groups. She is presently a member of all the groups in the box, see below (except EoH), and more besides. She has posted more than 3500 messages to these groups. Mary reveals her willingness to accept medical advice from strangers on the internet, and her trust in doctors employing “gross medical misjudgment”. Between the ages of 3.6 and 7.9, Saul has been “treated” with the following (in alphabetical order):

Acetyl L Carnitine –
acetylated form of L-carnitine
(quaternary ammonium compound biosynthesized from the amino acids lysine and methionine)
Actos (pioglitazone)
-prescription drug which carries a black box warning
Cal/Mag Butyrate – mineral supplement
– marketed as an enzymatic remedy to treat the yeast infection candida
Carnosine -amino acid
Chelation – process of removing heavy metals
Andrew Cutler protocol (at least 50 rounds)
DAN protocol for 2 1/2 years.
15 IVs of EDTA & Glutathione
5 IVs of DMPS and glutathione
5 combined IVs DMPS/EDTA/Glutathione
Diflucan – prescription anti-fungal
Dimethyl glycine – modified amino acid
Enhansa – Enhanced absorption curcumin supplement
Epsom salt baths
Essential fatty acids
Flagyl (Metronidazole) – prescription anti-fungal
Folinic acid – modified folic acid
Folapro – highly absorbable folate
prescription drug used for the treatment of mild to moderate
Alzheimer’s disease and various memory impairments
GFCF diet – gluten-free-casein-free diet (3 years)
GFCF diet with digestive enzymes for infractions
hyperbaric oxygen treatment
(Mary owns her own Mary owns a Vitaeris 320)
HLC MindLinx Powder by Pharmax – probiotic
IM Bicillin – prescription intramuscularly injected form of penicillin
Inositol – a nutrient
IVIG – Intravenous Immunoglobulin
used to treat immune dysfunction
contains the pooled immunoglobulin G (IgG)
immunoglobulins from the plasma of approximately a
thousand or more blood donors
Klaire Labs Detoxification Support and Factor 4 – probiotic
Liquid Bodybio PC – phosphatidylcholine with essential fatty acids
Liquid grapefruit seed extract
Low dose Naltrexone – an anti-opiod
L-theanine – amino acid
Magnesium supplements
MB12 – Methylcobalamin, vitamin B12 – shots
MB12 – Methylcobalamin, vitamin B12 – spray
Nicotine patch
Nizoral – antifungal
Nystatin – antifungal
OLE – olive leaf extract
(N,N’-bis (2-mercaptoethyl)isophthalamide,
also know as 1,3-benzenediamidoethanethiol)
an untested synthetic chemical
Oxytocin nasal spray
PCA-Rx – purports to remove toxins from the body
Pro Bio – probiotic
Quercetin – antioxidant flavinoid
Reduced glutathione cream
Threelac -probiotic
Transdermal NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine)
Valtrex (valacyclovir)
used to treat infections caused by herpes viruses
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Zithromax – antibiotic

Mary has been tireless in “treating” Saul. But what about Saul? One would think that he must be very impacted by autism in order for her to go to these extraordinary lengths to cure him. Actually, no. He’s an extraordinary kid, and a wonderful one. Saul could identify all of the letters in any order and count to 40 at age 2.2. He started sight reading words at about 2.3 and at age 2.8 could sight read about 30 words. He started kindergarten in a segregated setting at age 4.9, , talked to the teacher, “he sat nicely through circle time, sat at his desk during class, and even raised his hand and answered questions. He was pointing to shapes on the wall and quizzing the teachers!” Here is Mary’s description of Saul at age 4.7:

“I woke up this morning and he was in bed with me. I’m not sure what time he came in because I never heard or felt him get into bed which is unusual. I woke up and felt him there. I rolled over and his little face was right there. He looked so peaceful and really has the face of an angel. I just laid there and stared at him for about 20 minutes. He yawned and opened his eyes. He saw me and his face lit up with a HUGE ear to ear grin. “Good morning Mom. Love you. Gimme a hug.” He gave me such a big strong hug. “Gimme a kiss.” I gave him a kiss. A second later his gears kicked in and he was off and running on full speed. After a few minutes he came back in the room and said “GIMME BREAKFAST! ! !””

But the “biomedical treatments” have not always been kind to Saul. Here’s Mary describing him at age 5.11

My son is on a ton of supplements. We haven’t really changed anything. Starting August 30, for three weeks we had to stop all enzymes, antifungals and probiotics in preparation for a endoscopy/colonoscopy. He is back on everything since he was scoped on Sept 20. Also at the beginning of August he had a high fever and a nasty rash that was diagnosed as Fifth’s Disease. I’m not convinced it was Fifths. He didn’t have the bright red cheeks and the rash was gone in 3 days.

After being sick he became clingy and a little whiny. In the past month its become horrible. I can’t even stand up without his whining “mommy..moooommmmmy, mommy will come.” I hear this the entire time I’m out of the room. Even if I tell him what I’m going to do and that I’ll be right back he continues saying it over and over. He whines over every little thing. Usually just lets out a big “WWWAAAAHHH” and it goes on and on. He cries over everything. He’s driving me insane. We are also seeing a decrease in spontaneous expressive language, asking repetitive questions, and repeating back questions instead of answering them.”

Nor have the “biomedical treatments” been kind to the family budget. In one message, Mary admitted that each month she spent $2800 – $3500 for IVIG, plus about $500 in supplements including the cost of chelation.

In a rare moment of insight, in May 2008, Mary posted:

“Sometimes I feel like a mad scientist and my poor kid is my guinea pig.”

Finally, a year later, she posted the preamble to this article (see box at top). How’s that “biomedical treatment” working out for you, Mary?

Such are the real costs of the anti-vaccination movement, the “biomedical treatment” internet groups. And the real costs of a parent unable to accept their child’s diagnosis. In her last message to the NLT group, Mary is still in denial about her son’s diagnosis:

RE: Sowell Traits
My son is 5 and is diagnosed PDD-NOS fits 7 of these to a T! ! ! The only one that doesn’t fit is # 7

Makes me wonder what we are really dealing with.”

Thousands of parents are members of these yahoo groups. Once inside the cozy echo chamber of the group, there is general acceptance that vaccines cause autism. Members expressing opposing views are drummed out of the group. It is taken as an article of faith that there are children recovering from autism by the use of these biomedical interventions. The parents get poorer, the quacks get richer, and the innocent children are the victims of often dangerous and painful experimentation at the hands of the people who are supposed to care for them the most.

Some Yahoogroups

A-M – Autism-Mercury. Membership 8400, 2000 messages/month (archives public)

“To discuss current issues related to the increasing incidence of autism the potential link between excessive mercury exposure via thimerosal in infant vaccines. Topics include: mercury detoxification (“chelation”), mercury-related issues/news, and vaccination-related issues/news. Most members are parents of children with autism, aspergers, ADD, ADHD, PDD, PDD-NOS, SID, oppositional defiance disorder, apraxia, speech disorders, and/or other related symptoms. There are many labels: you are welcome regardless of particular label(s). In addition to mercury, we also discuss other heavy metals (for example: arsenic, antimony, lead). Many parents here are in the process of chelation, with a child. This process is discussed in detail. Also welcome: mercury poisoned adults; other disorders/issues related to mercury poisoning; other biomedical treatments for ASD.”

Comment: Primarily discusses Andrew Cutler heavy metal chelation protocol. This protocol relies on faux “counting rules” applied to hair testing to purportedly prove that people are “mercury toxic”. Andrew Cutler has a PhD in Chemical Engineering.

CK2 – Chelatingkids2. Membership 6600, 3000 messages/month

“This list is for parents and/or family members of children with autism who are seeking biomedical intervention, The main focus of treatment here follows the DAN! or Defeat Autism Now.”

Comment: Mercury chelation according to the DAN! protocol. This protocol relies on provoked urine tests to purportedly prove “mecury toxcicity”. This very active group has been recently closed to new postings for an unspecified period of time.

EoH – Environment of Harmformerly Evidence of Harm. Membership 2300, 600 messages/month (archives public)

“This is the Environment of Harm discussion list focusing on vaccine damage and mercury poisoning as it relates to autism. Of keen interest to participants are the issues of government public health negligence and corruption and the various political efforts by parents to end the spectrum of epidemics that is being revealed as mercury poisoning, especially autism.”

Comment: Politically active group originally supporting the autism is caused by mercury poisoning hypothesis, but now openly anti-vaccine.

GFCFKids– Membership 14000, 3500 posts/month

“The principle aim of this list is to provide a discussion forum for parents of children on the autism spectrum who are avoiding gluten and casein and other substances in their children’s diets. We hope that the discussions will include practical information and tips on following a GFCF(etc) diet; scientific research and opinion; the latest developments in understanding GFCF(etc) diet-related health problems; your personal stories and experiences with relation to GFCF(etc) problems; information on what food is GFCF(etc)and what is not; tips on how to eat out of the house; recipes and tips on how to cook and prepare GFCF(etc) food; what vitamins, minerals, herbs and other supplements may be appropriate for a child with autism, how to cope with difficult diet demands, plus support for parents.”

Comment: One of the largest “biomedical treatment” yahoo groups. While the GFCF diet has substantial anecdotal support, clinical trials have not shown any benefit. The GFCF diet appears relatively harmless, however, it can result in weakening of bones due to nutritional deficiencies. Moreover, it often acts as a first step on the path to more dangerous “biomedical treatments”.

NLT – NaturalLateTalkers. Membership 2900, 500 messages/month

“This list is a support for parents of latetalkers or speech delay with some or all traits of latetalker listed in the book Late Talking Children by Thomas Sowell. . . Here parents ARE and will be able to discuss their problems, concerns, and dissatisfaction with the over diagnosing done by various systems, such as speech therapists, doctors, schools, etc. Parent’s choice helping with speech through parent or another source is to be respected.” (sic)

Comment: This list supports those in deep denial about their child’s autism. While such support groups appear to be relatively benign, offering mutual support to parents of children with disabilities, they are often an entry point for parents to learn about the autism “biomedical treatment” and anti-vaccination movements. These groups are replete with examples of parents taking medical advice from strangers over the internet, many of whom are accorded more credibility than the medical professionals who have actually seen their children.

518 Responses to “Truth and Consequences – The Anti-Vaccination Movement Exacts a Price”

  1. Chris September 28, 2009 at 07:25 #

    Christel, you make lots of statements, but provide no supporting evidence. This is called “argument by assertion”, which is not valid.

    As I have shown, VAERS is raw data, and there have been several studies where the information was evaluated, and no real association between vaccines and autism has been shown. All you have to do is look at the real research and not the pablum fed to you by anti-vax sites.

    Though it might help if you used the more common spellings of words like the preservative: thimerosal. It is also known (more chemically accurate) as thiomersal. I do realize you have trouble with spelling (and grammar), and I accept that is part of your neurodiversity (dyslexia perhaps? I mean you did use “VARS” instead “VAERS” several times, and you did have trouble with the word “seizures”), so I hope when you look up stuff on thimerosal you will more successful knowing the more common spellings.

    So what happened to those studies that replicated Wakefield’s dozen case studies? You told me that there were reports his research was not flawed and some reporter was fired, but you have not shared the supporting documentation. Surely there is something other than the paper by Hornig and friends that failed to come up with the same results.

    Also, please make up your mind. Is it the MMR or is it thimerosal that causes autism! It can’t be both. The MMR has never contained thimeroal, nor aluminum. Which is it?

    Also, can I assume you do not eat pickles or use anything with baking powder? Pickles are made with alum, and baking powder has aluminum sulfate. Do you also not use aluminum cookware, nor drink out of any aluminum can? Do you make sure you never ever touch an aluminum light pole or aluminum window ever? Looking around me, I see an aluminum desk lamp, an aluminum level used for hanging pictures, a digital camera with an aluminum body, and this laptop has an aluminum shell. Surely by touching them bits of aluminum wear off. How do you avoid the most common metal on the planet you live on? Do you enclose yourself in some kind of plastic shell (is that how you can protect yourself from tetanus, because it lives everywhere, there is no herd immunity from “lock jaw”).

  2. David N. Brown September 28, 2009 at 09:24 #

    “again until someone takes the time to call on all those VAERS and it be released to the public (which is it’s all under lock and key and not even avalible to lawyers, we all sit and wait! that is part of our argument!”

    VAERS is completely open to the public. I’ve used VAERS data myself, for an article responding to Kim Stagliano of AOA who also cited the same data.

  3. hammie September 28, 2009 at 11:45 #

    You have hit the nail on the head when you say the biggest problem in these cases is the parents inability to accept a diagnosis. I welcome the studies and stats on this in relation to measuring positive outcomes for kids with any kind of ASD, but what criteria do we measure it by?
    If you say “partakes in mainstream education” is a measureable goal I would say
    A) my kids will never go to mainstream and thank goodness because neither of their parents had a very good time there

    and B) the state is very willing to push kids into mainstream on the basis of compliance over academic ability. So they are just basically being minded but not achieving any typical academic goals or even social skills as they are isolated and recognised only when disrupting the class.

    Whereas a child in special education may learn a range of academic, social and life skills and emerge with a far more well rounded ability to take on mainstream “life” on their own terms.

    It is another whole can of (organic?) worms but in my opinion I would measure the benefits of kids choosing parents who love and accept them for who they are, who find humor, joy and satisfaction in every step they take, and who grow up and go forward into the world on their own terms, Who want to be “known and understood” by their parents and bloom in the knowledge that they are very very loved.


  4. Kwombles September 28, 2009 at 12:23 #

    A big shout out to Jen for netting me my first anonymous, vaguely worded implied death threat! Wow, Jen, you rock! What a proud day for you.

    See countering for my rebuttal to the actual comment.

    Anonymous said…

    “Good to have your picture and class schedule. Makes it so much easier.”

  5. brian September 28, 2009 at 17:07 #

    Science-Based Medicine has a new post that has as its starting point the discussion that Guest Blogger initiated here.

    The price of anti-vaccine fanaticism: Case histories

    “This . . . illustrates a principle of autism quackery. Because autism is a condition of developmental delay, not stasis, and because it frequently has periods of stasis followed by periods of rapid development followed by periods of stasis again, if a parent tries enough quackery, sooner or later by sheer coincidence alone he or she will be seem to be able to match up a remedy with an apparent improvement.”

  6. jen September 28, 2009 at 17:22 #

    KW, that is not from me. I would appreciate it if you would please stop harassing me and stop emailing me.

  7. Kwombles September 28, 2009 at 17:36 #


    I didn’t say it was from you, only that your actions last night going on multiple yahoo groups and posting all my information and essentially advocating that people harass me was. In addition, you emailed me first to say this:

    From: Jennifer

    Subject: Re: OT: Lurker Alert…

    To: “”

    Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 9:04 PM

    I’m over it. Thanks! I’ve already received at least a dozen emails. All saying the same, you are a very strange woman of three Autistic children. The overall feeling about you is the same…they feel pity for you and your family. I do have one question….why are you a a part of a yahoo group, such as A-M, that is really of no interest to you considering you don’t agree with any of the principals???? What a way to end 4 days. I thank you, I’ve learned my lesson…it would be less painful to beat my head against the wall then to argue with a group who are committed to never opening their eyes to reality…poor kids.”

    I responded to it, and that response is on my blog. I emailed you this morning with this: “

    I so hope that helps you get even further over it.”

    So, I’m going to go with one email response to you and the above additional to you as not consituting harrassment. And I have not posted your identifying information.

    However, your posts to the various groups actually does, under Texas Penal Code Section 42.07. Might be something you wanted to consider.


    • Sullivan September 28, 2009 at 17:54 #


      there is an odd disconnect amongst the alternative medicine groups. You can often find comments with statements to the effect of “we would never criticize them for how they raise their kids”. Then you read the, “your family suffers because you don’t believe in alt-med treatments” type comments as well.

      The alternative medicine community is like any other. There are a lot of very nice people. There are others who are not so nice.

  8. Dedj September 28, 2009 at 17:50 #

    Repeated posting upon multiple boards with intent to accuse of illicit or illegal access, veiled threats towards making formal complaints, smears on professional reputations, implicit accusations of professional misconduct, nudge-nudge wink-wink ‘exposing’ of a ‘lurker’ including thier place of work knowing full well it will attract slander and harrassment if not more….

    Jen would be well advised to quit adding to her rap-sheet now, or pony up some really serious evidence.

    The posts referencing this thread are publically available and easily findable. Even with the throughput on that yahoo group, the first post was still only second page. A post to the original thread, smearing kev and GB as ‘sickos’? Page 4. That’s without using the search function. Jens L’s real name and website is at the bottom of each, with her handle on the right. A simple google search shows up nearly 300 relevant results for that handle alone, all publically viewable. Her maiden name and photo are there too, on a publically viewable page.

    Although I would never advocate posting personal information, Kim originally anonymised Jens alledged ‘private’ information. Jen responded by collating and posting Kims information on a publically viewable forum, when private messages to the forum administrators would have been the most viable option.

    Jen should try not to spam repeated messages to multiple publically viewable message boards if she wants to remain unfindable.

    Jen would be very well advised to stop being niave and learn just how much is freely publically available and just how powerful google is, even to those using only publically viewable information.

  9. Corina Becker September 29, 2009 at 05:09 #

    So jen has little to no respect for us, huh? Given from her first comments, I would have to say that she didn’t really have very much respect for us to begin with. Since the beginning, I have found jen’s comments to be at least mildly offensive, as in, in indention of attacking, and fairly illogical. Never mind being a diarrhea of the fingers in terms of length, to the point where I not only consider her a troll, but a spammer as well.

    Also, jen dear, welcome to the World Wide Web, aka, what you do is public to all and the entire world can see what you do.

  10. christel king October 1, 2009 at 19:15 #

    Thoughtful House Center for Children Announcement:

    New Research Study Shows Developmental Delays in Monkeys Given Hepatitis B Vaccines

    Sept. 30, 2009

    (Austin, Texas) – A new research study published today in a leading scientific journal, NeuroToxicology, found that a Hepatitis B vaccine containing the mercury-based preservative thimerosal caused significant delays in the acquisition of critical survival reflexes in newborn rhesus macaque monkeys. In this first-ever study comparing vaccinated animals with unvaccinated controls, thirteen of the animals were given a Hepatitis B vaccine containing a standardized amount of thimerosal to match that given to babies; four received a saline placebo, and three were not given any shots. The unvaccinated animals developed normally. Delays in vaccinated infants involved three critical reflexes associated with feeding, which are essential for survival in the wild.

    “Infants of lower birth weight and gestational age were at greater risk” explained Dr. Laura Hewitson of the University of Pittsburgh, one of the principal investigators of the study. “The reflexes affected in this study are controlled by the brainstem, which regulates functions like heart rate, breathing, and intestinal activity, so these findings give us cause for concern, especially for low birth weight and pre-term infants who might be more susceptible to functional brain injury from this vaccine.”

    According to Hewitson, the study was not designed to determine whether it was the thimerosal preservative or another component of the vaccine that caused the observed delays. Although the FDA and American Academy of Pediatrics recommended in 1999 that thimerosal be removed as soon as possible from vaccines in the US, it is still used as a preservative in flu shots, including the recently licensed H1N1 vaccines. Flu shots are currently recommended for pregnant women and children 6 months of age and older.

    “We undertook these experiments largely because we were unable to find any safety studies comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated animals,” said Dr.. Andrew Wakefield, Executive Director of Thoughtful House and a co-investigator of the project. “This study is part of a larger research program looking at the safety of the vaccine schedule from birth to age four years. What is particularly concerning is that in spite of the recommendation to remove thimerosal from vaccines a decade ago, millions of people, many of them children and pregnant mothers, are about to get mercury in their flu shots.”
    R>Thimerosal is also still routinely used in Hepatitis B and numerous other vaccines world-wide.

  11. christel king October 1, 2009 at 19:45 #


    “Also, please make up your mind. Is it the MMR or is it thimerosal that causes autism! It can’t be both. The MMR has never contained thimeroal, nor aluminum. Which is it?”

    again I am an educated parent (yeah my spelling likely doesn’t help) when it comes to this,i KNOW That MRR never contained mercury! MY son spirial from MMR given in combo with other vaccinations. MMR damaged both him and I, so I am sure there is a genetic component and this was a switch for us. for me I became hypoglycemic to the place I was passing out ever other day after mine, for him autism. it can be EITHER that is a trigger, virus, yeast infections, bactieral issues, metals, allergy reactions ect. it’s to much on the immune system over loaded. my son reacted to allergy components, plus viral, plus ill already at the time, perhaps immunodefiecent ect…

    “Also, can I assume you do not eat pickles or use anything with baking powder? Pickles are made with alum, and baking powder has aluminum sulfate. Do you also not use aluminum cookware, nor drink out of any aluminum can? Do you make sure you never ever touch an aluminum light pole or aluminum window ever? Looking around me, I see an aluminum desk lamp, an aluminum level used for hanging pictures, a digital camera with an aluminum body, and this laptop has an aluminum shell. Surely by touching them bits of aluminum wear off.”

    we use alumimium free baking powder, pickels made from garlic no metals in there, no we also don’t use alumium cookware, or having anything out of cans ect the occational coconut milk used for cooking cake which is like 3-4 times a year. TOUCHING an alumium deck lamp or picture ect. isn’t putting it INTO your body…..get real!

  12. Chris October 1, 2009 at 20:03 #

    Now please tell what studies have replicated Wakefield’s dozen case studies he published in 1998. Please give the journal, title, date and authors.

  13. alex October 2, 2009 at 21:09 #

    I don’t see the point in this war. I am, in fact, very saddened by the split that is quickly becoming a chasm, amongst a group of people who are, actually all in the same boat. My naivety on this count is of course my own failure, but it seems to me that if we come together and pool ALL of our skills and information we would be so much further ahead. I will state my position here and hope that my comments will not further the “surge” but be taken in the spirit in which they offered, genuine concern over the rift that is accelerating in “our community.” So here goes nothing: -)

    –I believe that consideration of others is the very basis of Neurodiversity and I would like to see the premise extended to include toleration of different parental choices and beliefs.

    –I believe we need to stop wasting our time hunting each other down and trying to destroy each other. That is just neglecting our primary mission which is (or should be) advocating for our children in society, where indeed we do often have to be fighters. (Anyone who has sat through an IEP meeting will find the fighter in them come alive.) That is called advocacy. And we need to save our energy for optimizing our children’s care so that they may have a semblance of independence when they reach adulthood.

    –I believe we need to stop name calling. It has no rhetorical substance and is merely a tactic aimed toward disabling one’s “opponent” by deflating his/her confidence. This is so rudimentary that High School Debate Teams know this to be “the first rule.”

    –I believe in empirical evidence, but I also believe that along with direct observation, correlations (patient/parents reports) are very often the basis of the hypotheses around which these studies are conducted. In order for these correlations to come to light some people have to be wading outside the official pool a bit, ( In business we call these people visionaries. In medicine we call them quacks.) (i.e. Johns Hopkins revamping their Ketogenic Diet from the torturous starvation diet that it was to incorporate the foundations of the Atkin’s Diet. Atkins was deemed a quack once, now thanks to collaboration between the “opposing camps” children suffer less with the same outcome.

    –I believe that parents have to stay healthy mentally and physically in order to give their children the love and care that they need and deserve. And, if there is a parent on a group somewhere who is in obvious mental pain it is extremely counterproductive to add to her burden by publicly humiliating her. This is not helping any of us, least of all her child who needs her to be stable and present. Some people don’t have support systems in place, those of us who do are the lucky ones. If a parent needs to vent, let them vent. Stuffing her frustrations will only make the child’s situation more precarious. Gentleness and humor are great medicine for all concerned.

    –I believe that the bar is different for everyone and strive to see the individual potential in children of all abilities. Same for we adults, we all cope differently. Why do we have to compare? Or worse, seek differences in each other while preaching tolerance for our children?

    — I don’t believe in excess in our children’s care This goes for chelation and pumping supplements to MTS surgery and heavy pharmaceuticals to O.Ding them on therapies. I’m neither anti-vax nor am I anti-anti-vax. Some vaccinations I’ve agreed to and others not. (ie: I see no point in giving a newborn baby a Hep B shot and will never be convinced otherwise) I believe in weighing the risk/benefit of care options.

    — And finally (aren’t you relived! 🙂 I believe children are children and even those with medical or cognitive complications have very simple needs: a safe and nurturing environment, understanding and companionship, warm loving arms around them and plenty of fun. And, I guess their parent’s needs aren’t so different.

    thanks for listening.

  14. Chris October 3, 2009 at 08:19 #

    Christel says that “TOUCHING an alumium deck lamp or picture ect. isn’t putting it INTO your body…..get real!”

    Oh, deary, don’t you know you are dealing with folks at “Generation Rescue” who thought transdermal creams would be a cure? Haven’t you heard of Rashid Buttar and his transdermal chelation creams?

    So why wouldn’t touching aluminum dust be a problem? Explain that to me. Aluminum is only the most common metal on Earth. How do you avoid that?

    Oh, and garlic is not a sufficient substitute for alum for pickles. It has to do with crispiness, not flavor. (you don’t cook much, do you?… funny, most of the “natural moms” usually know the basics of canning and pickling, obviously you do not).

  15. notindenial October 4, 2009 at 05:58 #

    “We have reanalyzed the data set originally reported by Ip et al. in 2004 and have found that the original p value was in error and that a significant relation does exist between the blood levels of mercury and diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder.”

  16. notindenial October 4, 2009 at 06:10 #

    “Money can easily trump morality and the five drug companies contracted with the U.S. government to produce the H1N1 vaccines will be paid from $250 to $690 million each for mass production.”

    “Vaccinations were suspended when 1,098 people suffered from Guillain-Barré syndrome, a disorder that causes the body’s immune system to attack parts of the nervous system. There was a 1 in 100,000 rate of occurrence. Although we must assume vaccines have improved considerably in the intervening years, the insert on the Novartis swine flu vaccine being administered this fall lists Guillain-Barré as a possible side effect.”

    “But because it accumulates in the body as a potent toxin to the developing brain, in July of 1999 the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics agreed that “thimerosal-containing vaccines should be removed [from the market] as soon as possible.”

    “Thimerosal, nonetheless, continues to be used as a preservative in sixteen vaccines, five of which are given to infants. Although it was taken out of the Hepatitis B, Diptheria,Tetanus and Pertussis, and the hemophillus B shots in the US in 2000, the mercury-based additive is included in the multi-dose seasonal flu shots and H1N1, and is also in some childhood formulations of meningitis vaccines.”

    “No one seems to know why the mercury has not been removed. In fact, the government has all but ignored the 1986 Mandate for Safer Childhood Vaccines, the Combating Autism Act, and a unanimous decision in June from the National Vaccine Advisory Committee, which all called for safety studies and research comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated humans and animals. This has never been done for thimerosal or even the Measles, Mumps, Rubella (MMR) vaccine, which an increasing number of parents have associated with the onset of autism in their children.”

    “Private research, in collaboration with universities, is endeavoring to fill this gap and is turning up disturbing results. A new study from a group of scientists, which was just published in the journal NeuroToxicology, has shown that the birth dose of a thimerosal-containing Hepatitis B vaccine given to macaque monkeys caused developmental delays in key survival instincts.”

    “Had this study been done as a pre-clinical trial, the FDA could have never licensed a mercury-containing Hepatitis B vaccine, nor could the CDC have ever recommended one, at least for infants and young children,” said Theresa Wrangham, president of the group SafeMinds. “We are especially alarmed because the seasonal influenza and swine flu vaccines contain mercury. We think pregnant women and young children should not be given mercury-containing medicines with such significant side effects.”

    “Even the CDC has conceded that some safety “claims against vaccines cannot be disproved” and that it “does not have complete adverse events surveillance data on which to base health messages.”

    “More and more parents will continue to revolt until they are completely confident their children are safe.

    Hardly seems like that’s too much to ask.”

  17. notindenial October 4, 2009 at 11:29 #

    “Written by the Centers for Disease Control, the federal agency in charge of the vaccine program. The lead author, Thomas Verstraeten, left to take a job with Glaxo SmithKline — a vaccine manufacturer — after the study was written and before it was published. The U.S. Congress later cited this as an ethical violation.”

    “This study was supported by the Stanley Medical Research Institute.” [Two of the seven authors were employees of Denmark’s largest vaccine manufacturer, Statens Serum Institute”

    “Dr. Thompson reports being a former employee of Merck; Dr. Marcy, receiving consulting fees from Merck, Sanofi Pasteur, GlaxoSmithKline, and MedImmune; Dr. Jackson, receiving grant support from Wyeth, Sanofi Pasteur, GlaxoSmithKline, and Novartis, lecture fees from Sanofi Pasteur, and consulting fees from Wyeth and Abbott and serving as a consultant to the FDA Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee; Dr. Lieu, serving as a consultant to the CDC Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices; Dr. Black, receiving consulting fees from MedImmune, GlaxoSmithKline, Novartis, and Merck and grant support from MedImmune, GlaxoSmithKline, Aventis, Merck, and Novartis; and Dr. Davis receiving consulting fees from Merck and grant support from Merck and GlaxoSmith- Kline. No other potential conflict of interest relevant to this article was reported.”

    “Dr. Pichichero was a member of the discovery team at the University of Rochester that invented, tested and licensed a Haemophilus influenzae b (Hib) conjugate vaccine (HibTITER®) now universally given to children in the U.S. [he makes vaccines, but didn’t report as a conflict]”

    “* We are actually reviewing 19 studies. The truth is, the public figures who discuss the “overwhelming” evidence have different numbers that they cite for the number of studies done. We chose to name our website “Fourteen Studies” to match the quote from Amanda Peet.”

  18. notindenial October 4, 2009 at 11:31 #

    • Sullivan October 4, 2009 at 15:31 #


      how ironic. The fourteen studies site is an excellentexample of denialism at its worst. Whoever wrote it is in clear denial of the fact that neither mercury nor MMR caused an “autism epidemic”. The author even uses the clearly dishonest “data”showing suposedly lower autism rates in countries with fewer vaccines. You did notice that the author uses old autism rates for foeign counties and compares them to more recent data from the US, right?

      I note that you have done nothing but cut and paste from there and Huffington post. Did you have anything to say?

  19. Guest Blogger October 4, 2009 at 15:24 #

    Time Magazine article:,8599,1927415,00.html

    Partial quote:

    “On Sept. 22, England’s National Health Service (NHS) released the first study of autism in the general adult population. The findings confirm the intuitive assumption: that ASD is just as common in adults as it is in children. Researchers at the University of Leicester, working with the NHS Information Center found that roughly 1 in 100 adults are on the spectrum — the same rate found for children in England, Japan, Canada and, for that matter, New Jersey.

    This finding would also appear to contradict the commonplace idea that autism rates have exploded in the two decades. Researchers found no significant differences in autism prevalence among people they surveyed in their 20s, 30s, 40s, right up through their 70s. “This suggests that the factors that lead to developing autism appear to be constant,” said Dr. Terry Brugha, professor of psychiatry at the University of Leicester and lead author of the study. “I think what our survey suggests doesn’t go with the idea that the prevalence is rising.””


  20. Guest Blogger October 4, 2009 at 16:12 #

    Dear alex (Mr. Why Can’t We All Just Get Along?)

    Can you please re-read the original post. In particular read the Big List(TM) of treatments. Can you please tell me if you would choose any of this list of words to describe the Big List(TM)?

    Justified, warranted, medically necessary, proven, safe, appropriate.

    Or would you choose?

    Outrageous, unnecessary, inappropriate, dangerous.

    This isn’t about better advocacy for our children, about which I hope we all can agree. It’s about alerting outsiders to the extent of unjustifiable and dangerous experimentation that takes place on children, in the name of “recovering” them from a disorder which their parent(s) has not accepted. That discussion is not taking place in the echo chamber of the “biomedical treatment” yahoo groups.

    Mary once believed her son was a “Sowell kid” a “Natural Late Talker”, a child who had hidden brilliance, and would one day be perfectly normal. Now, she apparently believes he is a “PANDAS kid”, and with sufficient expensive intravenous treatment, he will recover from the “PANDAS”.

    But you can see that she hopes the IVIG treatment for his “PANDAS” will cure his autism as well. Look at the response she gave to inquiries on how the IVIG had gone. I quoted it previously upthread.

    “A few things I’ve noticed, and it may or may not be from the IVIG.

    His screaming has decreased. He had some screams that are clearly tics and some that are definitely behavioral. Both have decreased but the tic ones decreased more.

    Slight improvement in eye contact.

    In the last week or so he’s sillier and more playful. It’s easier to get him to laugh and engage in something silly like making faces back and forth and he seems to get a bigger kick out of me being silly.”

    So, she’s not just looking for improvements in PANDAS symptoms. She’s looking for improvement in ASD symptoms. Poor eye contact and lack of social reponsiveness aren’t PANDAS symptoms.

  21. Anon October 9, 2009 at 11:20 #


    I have receaved this from some one who wants to remain anonymous.

    They are changing the mental health act so that people who are under it will be forced vaccinated.

    Please flood Debbie Nixons e-mail the Director of Commissioning partly responcerble for this mass vaccine planning.

    It was noted that a mass vaccination was required later in the year which would create pressure for GPs and community services.

    Minutes of Board meeting held on

    held on 5 August 2009

    The Cornerstone Centre…/Social%20Care%20-%20Mental%20Health%20Joint%20Commissioning%20Team.pdf

    These poeple need to know when enough is enough I have not receaved 1 responce from her and this is not accepterble.

    Please raise the alarm urgently

    Click to access Mass%20Vaccination%20Generic%20Framework.pdf

    Just for you to be warned-i think they maybe planning forced vaccinations of untrialed flu vaccines (can send you loads of info), i as looking at some sites as this is very worrying-and found this-being as you were a local…(thought you would be interested).


    The second freshly discovered document is a sample vaccination order (PDF) originating from the NHS health authority in Bolton, Lancashire.

    The order states that people in the UK will be summoned for a vaccination at an allocated date and time at pre-planned mass vaccination centres, and that refusal to attend is not an option.

    It is important that you attend this session. If you are unable to attend, you will need to go to one of the later sessions listed overleaf, says the letter in Appendix F page 29 of the contingency document.

    The letter lists Bolton Arena as the mass vaccination site, which is a large indoor sports arena.

    This is a new vaccine, which protects against the pandemic strain of influenza, which circulated last year. the letter, which was drawn up in September 2006, states.

    The document also highlights the need for crowd control and says that contract security should be considered in addition to the local police forces.


    • Sullivan October 9, 2009 at 17:43 #


      thanks for the link to the Huffington Post article. I’m not a flu vaccine guy, I’m a parent of an autistic kid. But, the article is interesting from one perspective–

      They mention Tom Jefferson of the Cochrane group.

      Dr. Tom Jefferson was supposed to receive an award from the NVIC (the self-named National Vaccine Information Center). Dr. Jefferson pulled out shortly before the conference. Dr. Jefferson did not want himself and, by association, the Cochrane group associated with Dr. Wakefield, a man who has misused and misquoted the Cochrane reports.

  22. notindenial October 10, 2009 at 16:46 #

  23. Chris October 10, 2009 at 19:09 #

    I believe we can now see “notindenial” is a spam troll. Just posting links with supporting or critiquing arguments to go along.

    Okay, notindenial, how about linking to the study that replicates Wakefield’s series of case studies that were in the 1998 retracted Lancet article? Or to the peer reviewed studies on the effectiveness of at least a few of the treatments Mary is subjecting her son to, especially the nicotine patch?

  24. passionlessDrone October 11, 2009 at 00:53 #

    Hi Chris –

    I was quite surprized to find that there is some, limited, science on using nicotine patches for things like tics / tourettes. I hesitate to jump in, we have no idea if Mary is attempting to address these types of syptoms, but there is a chance that this isn’t just stabbing in the dark.

    Clinical and attentional effects of acute nicotine treatment in Tourette’s syndrome.

    Or an older study that found that nicotine patches allowed for reductions in haloperidol dosage in patients that got the patch.

    Nicotine Patch Helps Control Symptoms Of Tourette’s Syndrome In Children And Adolescents

    None of these, of course, ameleriorate the problems associated with nicotine, but as with any medical treatment, we need to weigh the risks with the benifit of the treatment. As we have only Guess Bloggers highly targeted information as to Mary’s son, making conclusions in this regard is very difficult to do.

    – pD

  25. Chris October 11, 2009 at 01:07 #

    Thank you, pD. That is reasonable, but I doubt Mary had them prescribed by a doctor. When my son was having tics, I was told by his neurologist that it was pretty normal and he would grow out of it, and he did.

  26. Guest Blogger October 11, 2009 at 14:31 #

    Here’s all I know about Mary’s rationale for the nicotine patch:

    “What’s the age/weight of your child? Our DAN recommended 1/4 of a 7mg patch and it did nothing for my guy. I wonder if we tried enough of a dose”

    So, she just tried it on the say-so of her DAN! doctor. Notice that she seems willing to try a HIGHER dose based on the recommendation of a stranger on the internet.

  27. Anna October 11, 2009 at 18:40 #

    Sounds like the so called ” guest blogger” is a certified wack job posting people’s personal information on the internet.
    I am not sure what is worse – getting misinformation on the internet, or posting personal information to defame and slander individuals.
    If someone disagrees with the process a parent is using to figure out their child, it is unnecessary to steal emails and personal material to make a point.
    Clearly this so called ” guest blogger” needs to take a look in the mirror , and as well, it is clear that this is not really about the vaccination issue being discussed, but some kind of personal vendetta.
    I hope someone contacts the authorities of this Guest blogger’s person’s misuse of material on the internet.
    It is pretty sick indeed.

  28. Guest Blogger October 11, 2009 at 19:02 #

    Thanks Anna, for the good laugh! Yep, I posted someone’s personal information on the internet. And how did I acquire that information in the first place? Because Mary posted her personal information on a PUBLIC yahoo group. Yes, a public group. It says so right on the front page.

    Anna, maybe you need to learn that the internet is not a private place.

  29. Dedj October 11, 2009 at 20:56 #

    Indeed, as has already been pointed out, this ‘personal’ information was on a publically viewable forum.

    As has been already pointed out, the actions of ‘Mary’s’ defenders, who posted replies to the initial thread directing people over here rather than sending personal messages, ensured that this ‘personal’ information turned up in google searches and ensured this ‘personal’ information turned up on the first few pages of a publically viewable forum.

    Indeed, ‘Marys’ real name and (online service) handle are publically available on a publically viewable forum because ‘Mary’ either included them deliberately or did not select the privacy options.

    Videos of ‘Mary and Saul’ are publically available on a (international multi-million user video download service) because ‘Mary’ made it so.

    ‘Sauls’ (online store) wishlist and ‘Marys’ profile and reviews are publically available because ‘Mary’ made it so.

    ‘Marys’ (chat/update service) profile, her full name, her birthday, her town and state, her love of (popular band), even a possible list of schools she has attended, are all publically available because ‘Mary’ has provided that information as the primary source and has not ticked privacy options to hide the information. She even uses the same handle for nearly everything meaning most of this can be found using one obvious and publically available single word term in google. Some of it requires two obvious and publically available words in goggle.

    None of this requires any ‘stealing’ or ‘misuse’ of material. ‘Mary’ has not asserted any IP rights and Yahoo’s privacy policy only applies to staff and affiliates.

    As much as I do not personally agree with GB’s use of the material (although his interpretations match up with the rest of ‘Marys’ writtings that I know of), GB anonymised the material and correctly attributed it as much as he/she could given the limitations. GB has not infringed any of lb/rb or yahoo terms of service, privacy policies, abuse policies or any other known applicable codes or standards. This is in contrast to one of ‘Marys’ defenders who collated info on Kim W and posted it with reasonable expectations that it would be used to harass.

  30. Anna October 11, 2009 at 22:07 #

    This is a public forum, but whoever claims they got the quotes from a willing participant or public forum, is telling lies .
    The author did not wish to have private emails published here on this blog.
    The fact is, points can be made about these issues without stealing and stalking private email lists.
    Because the author who is stealing emails seems to think they have to do it unethically, it is more about harrassment of individuals than exploring the issues of autism and the cause.

  31. jypsy October 11, 2009 at 22:33 #

    “This is a public forum, but whoever claims they got the quotes from a willing participant or public forum, is telling lies .”

    Sorry Anna, but you are incorrect. The Autism-Mercury Yahoo list has *public* archives. The owners could choose to have a “members only” archives but have chosen to make everyone’s messages *public*. Every message is searchable in Yahoo’s search if not Google’s. Every member who participates in the Autism-Mercury list and posted there did so willingly. No one forced them to join and/or post to that list.

    Don’t believe me? Try this:
    1) Make sure you are signed out of your Yahoo account
    2) Go to
    3) Observe that you have free access to every post on the list and that it is, indeed, publicly available to anyone.

  32. Dedj October 11, 2009 at 22:58 #

    Sorry Anna, but the original postings are publically available.

    ‘Mary’ may have used her email client to send the postings, but they are not stored as email on the yahoo site. You can even use the site to post without using your email client.

    As stated on the first page of the group:

    “MESSAGES are “public” (you don’t need to “join” to read them)”

    I also joined yahoo to test whether I could post without email. The interface was just like any messageboard or blog.

    We need to stop these silly accusations of criminality.

    The ’emails’ are public. It says so in the first place any decently intelligent and minimally tech-savvy person would think to look.

  33. Chris October 11, 2009 at 23:18 #

    Anna, does this look like a private forum: ?

  34. Anna October 12, 2009 at 00:31 #

    Some are not private forums, but some are.
    This person knows exactly what they are doing.
    They are telling lies , to get on some private discussion lists and trolling lists to get emails.
    It is a shame because some people actually think this is a legitimate website that takes autism seriously !

  35. Chris October 12, 2009 at 00:50 #

    The posts came from a specific forum which was public, and has readily accessible archives going back at least nine years. What part of that do you not understand?

  36. jypsy October 12, 2009 at 01:16 #

    Anna is talking not about the Autism-Mercury post quotes but about the others, taken from
    Sorry Anna, my mistake. Being clear would help us in understanding. I was wrong, mistaken in thinking these were all Autism-Mercury posts, but not a “liar”.

  37. Laura October 12, 2009 at 01:24 #

    Allow me. Anna’s the founder of the natural late talkers group. You’ll note her trademark comma abuse if you compare her notes here to this:

    and this:

    She thinks you’re bitter because you joined the late talker group and your child turned out to be autistic. Because, you know, their children are so not autistic. So not autistic, that they must be tucked away in the home shielded from doctors, school administrators, nosy neighbors, what have you, lest some one brand their totally not autistic child with the A word.

  38. Chris October 12, 2009 at 01:25 #

    Hmmm, I was under the impression that most of the posts were taken from the public Autism-Mercury forum, and the other groups were listed as ones where this kind of experimenting on their children was supported and encouraged. Maybe I am wrong.

    But it still does not excuse the way these children are being treated.

  39. Anna October 12, 2009 at 01:30 #

    It does seem as though the people who run this website might not really be parents of autistic children.
    I too question the validity of the vaccine claims, and the chelaton therapies which can be dangerous , but I do not find this type of behavior on the internet helpful or infomative for parents who need answers.

    What I find sad is that you have nothing better to do with your time than search out 6 years of posts by one person. Do you have your own child with autism at home you can be spending time with? Or how about reaching out to this mother privately and offering advice rather than condemning her publicly.

  40. Anna October 12, 2009 at 01:39 #

    Anna is not the founder of any natural late talkers group or late

  41. Chris October 12, 2009 at 01:59 #

    Huh? What?

    Anna, you are not making any sense. Anyway, if you do want a place to get good answers and you find this site not helpful, may I suggest you try:

    For the record I do have a disabled adult son, and I have been active online in various disability listservs, newsgroups and forums for over a dozen years.

  42. Getgo October 12, 2009 at 01:59 #

    The NLT group is a PRIVATE support group. The messages are not public. GuestBlogger must have fraudulently filled out the questionnaire to indicate he/she had a late talking child, then stalked “Mary.”

    The group isn’t for talk about vaccines or any biomedical treatments. In fact, those are prohibited topics. It’s about working and advancing the language skills with their children, and getting evaluations from evaluators who know what they are doing.

    A final note: “Laura” above was asked to leave the group because she also posted private messages on her public blog.

  43. Anna October 12, 2009 at 02:10 #

    Hmm, I wonder if this is the same Laura person who stalked people on that other blog …and who is now blogging here ?

  44. Chris October 12, 2009 at 02:28 #

    What indications do you have that the messages are from the NaturalLateTalkers group and not any of the others mentioned?

  45. Getgo October 12, 2009 at 02:34 #

    It’s from “GuestBlogger’s own words:

    “We first meet Mary in October 2003, when her son Saul (born November 2001) was only 22 months of age. She began posting on the group NLT (for a description of the yahoo groups discussed in this article see the section at the end). She stated that her son”

  46. Anna October 12, 2009 at 02:46 #

    I was following the comments , but if the group is a closed group it is clear what happened here. I followed the link to the NLT and it is clear the blogger is telling false stories about some of the groups.


  1. Case Studies: Dangerous And Deadly Medical Experiments Conducted On Austistic Children By Anti-Vaccinationists - Better Health - October 8, 2009

    […] autistic children are subjected to was a post by a guest blogger at Left Brain/Right Brain entitled Truth and Consequences: The Anti-vaccination Movement Exacts a Price: But behind the scientific and legal consensus that vaccines do not cause autism lies a hidden […]

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