Evidence of Harm List Gets Flakier

10 Jul

Alongside the main players on the Evidence of Harm mail list such as Lujene Clarke and Lenny Schafer are starting to appear some truly fascinating people. It really is becoming quite an education watching this list descend into a fever pit of conspiracy theory, suspicion, paranoia, quasi-religious (and out-and-out religious) hysteria and ravings.

A sure sign of how strong one’s argument is is the quality of its support. In this respect, the EoH list is in increasingly bad shape. Alongside J.B Handley and the illogical Lujene Clarke who believes you can contract Aspergers at age 8 and upwards are some real off-the-wall whackos:

Herman Hugh Fudenberg, M.D.

Fudenberg, who has posted several times on the EoH list is possibly the most tainted supporter EoH/Mercury/Thimerosal has.

In November 1995, the South Carolina medical board found Fudenberg “guilty of engaging in dishonorable, unethical, or unprofessional conduct,” fined him $10,000, ordered him to surrender his license to prescribe controlled substances (narcotic drugs), and placed his license on indefinite suspension. The Board’s order, shown below, said that he could apply for probationary status if he underwent a neuropsychiatric examination and was judged capable of practicing medicine safely. In March 1996, he was permitted to resume practice under terms of probation that did not permit him to prescribe any drugs. His license expired in January 2004; and in March 2004, he applied to have it reinstated. However, after a hearing in which the Board considered a neuropsychatric report issued in 2003, Fudenberg agreed to remain in a “retired” status and withdrew his application for reactivation of his license. The South Carolina board’s Web site lists his license as “lapsed.”

Casewatch.

Fudenberg is a big mate of Andrew Wakefield:

Andrew Wakefield had filed patent claims for a vaccine and a possible cure for autism, based on a fringe theory of “transfer factors”. His collaborator and “co-inventor” was Hugh Fudenberg, who claimed in a 2004 interview with Brian Deer to cure autistic children with his own bone marrow.

Brian Deer.

There are, of course, plenty of genuinely disturbing kooks on the EoH list. Lenny Schafer, for example who doesn’t care if he’s right or wrong – its become a political battle for him:

The message here is that the autism-mercury cabal is committed to winning – even if they are wrong! They have clearly abandoned any pretense of scientific inquiry and are striving for a political solution.

Prometheus.

Everything that the cabal disagrees with is never argued with. Its simply shunted aside by either referring to it as written by ‘autism holocaust deniers’ or ‘Big Pharma’. In this way, unpalatable truths are casually tossed aside. I’d really really like to know how many EoH listers privately go back and read up on this stuff. I know a lot of them read this blog for example (you can deny it but yours and Yahoo’s referrer logs cannot lie my friends) and if you’re one of these people, please try and see the science past your conspiracy theory. I’ve no doubt US (and UK) Pharma companies act badly on occasion but you have moved the goalposts way beyond ‘Big Pharma’ culpability. Ask yourself if you really believe that everyone from your President right down to _and including_ your local family Doctor are all in collusion. Because thats what it would take – the collusion of just about every health care professional in your country – to keep this conspiracy alive.

22 Responses to “Evidence of Harm List Gets Flakier”

  1. Alyric July 10, 2005 at 12:39 #

    Yep, it’s a fascinating list the EOH, and getting really weird – you can tell that we’re in the land beyond the looking glass when the likes of Tim Bolen makes an appearance. Fudenberg is the genuine fruitcake – half the time he doesn’t appear to be compos mentis – seriously, his multiple replies to posts seem to be entirely at random apart from recommending various testing entities.

    Now, what I would like to see is some kind of analysis of the group delusion. There’s never going to be better data than this list, so I hope somebody’s keeping a record.

    Al

  2. Orac July 10, 2005 at 17:10 #

    I’ve never signed up to read the EoH list, mainly because I peruse far too many blogs and belong to far too many e-mail lists as it is. I don’t have time to read them all and still produce high quality writing for my own blog. Given your description, it’s probably a good thing that I don’t. It would probably drive me to drink if I regularly read what’s being posted there.

    I got a small taste of the paranoia and hatred of anyone who questions the Truth that EoH’ers accept myself last month when I earned myself a short-lived bit of blog notoriety by taking on RFK Jr.’s deceptive conspiracy-mongering and quote-mining. Even though I haven’t blogged on the thimerosal-autism conspiracy theories as often as I did last month, the EoH list members still pop up from time to time when I address the issue.

  3. credenza July 11, 2005 at 01:10 #

    Oh, come on! You’re saying Fudenburg is losing it, AND has lost his license? I was just about to order up a packed red blood cell mercury test or whatever to cure my measles induced autism based purely on his recommendations.

    “fOR EFFECTIVE ORAL THERAPY OF MERCURY AND MEASLES VACCINE INDUCED AUTISM, CALL NEURO Imunotherapeutic RESEARCH Foundation (NONPROFIT) 864 592 XXXX”

    Have you seen his picture?
    http://www.nitrf.org/fudenberg.html

    Brian Deer has a different photo of him, similarly not confidence inspiring.

    The group is definately a gathering of serious antivaxers with a handful of people trying to keep them from talking antivax all the time. All of them love a good conspiracy story. Never mind that someone, by now, ought to have come forward as a “whistle blower” in this decade long, mutli-thousand person conspiracy.

    Nope, no whistle blower, just C. Andrew Waters of Texas, California and Maryland, and his batch of lawyers (referred to more than 20 times, I think, in the Kirby book) digging and spinning the stuff they “discover”. And Blaxill the wunderkind of excel graphs and sound bites, and the lady billionaire, Sallie Bernard and her bottomless checkbook, and Lyn Redwood, fluent in conspiracy speak and looks good on camera.

  4. Erik Nanstiel July 12, 2005 at 12:58 #

    Wow, here I am clicking around the net and find myself mentioned on this blog. Camille, yes, in the past especially, I have had some mild OCD tendencies. I still have some mild (but controllable) ticks, which seem to be diminishing as I age. I believe that whatever genetics play into this, that I may have contributed a predisposition to my daughter to be inable to rid her body of heavy metals. I too am mercury toxic. (recently tested)

    My wife also is mercury toxic…which is likely a causal factor in her Multiple Sclerosis.

    However, genetics of this aside…aren’t we ALL genetically predisposed to say, break our necks after falling from a cliff? Some of us break our necks easier and are susceptible to shorter cliffs. Others have a tolerance that allow them to survive taller cliffs.

    I think mercury is like that. Beyond a certain threshold of exposure, we’re ALL predisposed to developing neurological and developmental impairments. Camille, I have met recovered children. Everyone of them were treated for heavy metal toxicity and received a variety of biomedical/nutritional & behavioral interventions.

    Please do not take my previous comments on my own “tendencies” to be some kind of admission that I don’t believe mercury to be related. I do.

  5. Kev July 12, 2005 at 14:12 #

    Odd feeling isn’t it Erik? To find yourself talked about without your knowledge? As you well know I’m very very familiar with that feeling. Lets hope people on my blog are more polite to you than you were to me eh?

    Regarding your comments, as you are probably aware there’s lots of ongoing research into the genetics of autism. Maybe you could supply us with a few links to peer-reviewed, scientifically valid articles on the genetic predisposition for the inability to rid the body of heavy metals?

    “However, genetics of this aside…aren’t we ALL genetically predisposed to say, break our necks after falling from a cliff? Some of us break our necks easier and are susceptible to shorter cliffs. Others have a tolerance that allow them to survive taller cliffs.”

    Are you serious?

  6. Erik Nanstiel July 12, 2005 at 15:04 #

    Kevin, am I serious? No, that was a form of sarcasm. I’m not entirely convinced that genetics are all that important a factor in this. I think there are kids who are predisposed, yes, but I think that if you give anybody ENOUGH ethyl and/or methyl mercury, it’s going to do damage.

    As for how I’ve treated you in other forums…I still think you’re Dangermama despite your claims to the contrary. But as far as people talking about me, I can handle it. I’ll speak up if I’m misrepresented, however. Say what you want about my position(s) on these topics…and feel free to point out faux paux’s in some of the things I might say. Nothing wrong in that. Nobody’s perfect.

    But I suspect that I won’t be winning any friends in the neurodiversity crowd because they hate what I do. I film the biomedical researchers in one-on-one interviews and promote them on autismmedia.org. I’m adding fuel to the fire. As for making the case for what I’ve come to know…I’m going to let our interviewees do that. They do a much better job than I do.

    I’m happy that Camille watches our videos. I’ve erected a web forum at autismmedia.org for debate on the content of those videos. As long as the topics are kept relevant, and there’s no flaming, I’ll allow anyone to post.

  7. Kev July 12, 2005 at 19:15 #

    So I should take that as a ‘no’ then?

  8. Erik Nanstiel July 12, 2005 at 19:51 #

    You’re aware of what people are saying. If you want to know what’s backing them up, do your own homework. If this is the first you’ve heard on the subject and were genuinely curious, I might go to the trouble for you.

    But I know where that will get me, and I’ll have wasted my time. I’d rather let the researchers speak for themselves. Hence, my foundation’s video gallery.

    It’s funny to me that Temple Grandin (whom I’ve interviewed for our site) is more open minded (if not very interested) on the biomedical aspects of autism…and not offended that folks want to cure their kids. Why, then, should the neurodiversity crowd be?

    How would that affect folks in your camp? Nada.

    Have a nice life. I’ve other battles to attend to.

  9. Anne July 13, 2005 at 00:11 #

    Say what you like about Erik (“quantumerik”) Nansteil, he *is* making progress. He’s gone from claiming that autism is nothing more than diarrhea and the inability to talk, to maybe recognizing some of his own autistic-like traits. Furthermore, he has graced us with an admission that adult autistics *do* exist and might even be worth talking to. At least if they don’t disagree with him. Way to go, Erik!

    I know he doesn’t like the neurodiversity crowd. Yet. But if and when he is forced to contemplate his probable Bappieness, we are the ones who are going to accept him. “Ticks” and all.

  10. Kev July 13, 2005 at 01:31 #

    Come on Erik, all I’m asking is that you back up your claim. Surely you do _have_ some backup right? Right?

    And why exactly would you think Temple Grandin speaks for the entire community? She has an opinion – thats that.

  11. Camille July 14, 2005 at 08:23 #

    I forgot how you, Kevin, were supposed to be dangermama and also “Lucid”, we’ll you are lucid, but you weren’t “Lucid”. Lucid, certainly denied that you were he or she. (on the parents.com board).

    Erik Nanstiel was quite testy over there, nasty, even.

    It was hard to watch.

    I never thought for a moment that you had taken your eyes off of mercury, Erik. I believe you are a true believer.

    I love your videos, they show all kinds of weakness and faults in the mercury argument and the slips are “caught on camera” for all to see. I like that you can see the parents, inlcuding their big heads and other physical manifestations of autism genes.

    I think that the neurodiversity community will welcome most slightly OCD people (like Erik)- ticks, fleas, mites, you name it. Some of us like it better if they bathe first, but even if they don’t we’ll be kind and accepting and respectful.

    Temple is deeply impressed with Dr. Rimland, and doesn’t question much of what he says, from what I hear. She’s very nice. I’ve met her and spoken with her a bit.

    I don’t think she wants to be chelated.

    We (neurodiversity types) are most concerned with the undue pressure and sometimes danger that autistic kids get exposed to when parents try to cure them.

    Autistic kids are not mercury poisoned. The poison is probably coming from the sample cups you all send your urine off in, or just in the minds of the greedy folks running the mail order labs…probably. I wouldn’t put too much stock in those lab results, if I was you, Erik.

    Have a nice life, Erik. I hope you and your family are well.

  12. Scott Parrish November 12, 2005 at 22:07 #

    Dr. Fudenberg has certainly taken a pummeling on this site. Which of course means an evidence-based litany of references/sources debunking his myriad of discoveries and acconmplishments will be posted herein to establish credibility. Here’s the link –http://www.nitrf.org/career.html . I look forward to either substantiation of allegations or apology.

  13. HN November 13, 2005 at 06:40 #

    True or False: Dr. Fudenberg has a license to practice medicine in the state of South Carolina.

    While at one point of time, Hugh Fudenberg may have been a brilliant man… unfortunately things sometimes change, like the onset of dementia. From:
    http://briandeer.com/wakefield/hugh-fudenberg.htm … “Professor Fudenberg plainly suffers from disability, and Brian Deer publishes this information only because he believes the public interest justifies the intrusion. Hugh Fudenberg told Brian Deer in 2004 that he continues to treat autistic children from his home in Spartanburg. He also continues to be cited as an authority in literature circulated by anti-vaccine campaigners.”

    Now someone needs to apolyze for taking money away from desparate parents for unproven “therapies” and needless guilt.

  14. Kev November 13, 2005 at 09:27 #

    Scott – once a _Doctor_ loses his licence to practice _medicine_ I think its fair to say that he’s lost his way. Once he claims he can cure autism with his own bone marrow, its time to back away slowly shouting for the men with the large butterfly nets and the coats that do up backwards,

  15. Scott Parrish November 16, 2005 at 11:39 #

    The charges that led to Dr. Fudenberg’s license troubles– obtaining of sleep aids, antihypertensive med and potassium replacement med–are in and of themselves completely devoid of indicators that he jeopardized patients. For Deer to post those docs on the internet is childish. For Deer and this sight to ridicule Fudenberg and Wakefield while not addressing the avalanche of evidence-based data put forth by Mark Grier, William Walsh, Jeff Bradstreet, Amy Holmes, Russell Blaylock, Harold Buttram, Neil Miller, Edward Yazbak, et.al. is a clear sign they’ve struck a nerve. Perhaps you’ll address the topics of metallothionein, myelin basic protein, glutathione, CU/Zn ratios, casein, gluten and DMSA in autistics one day.

    A strong advocate for your EoH/thimerosal/mercury argument is Paul Offit. Will you write B. Deer and ask him to run a report on his conflict of interests?

    If evidence ever turns up that Sabin or Salk were pedophiles will you begin denouncing polio vaccinations?

  16. Kev November 16, 2005 at 12:04 #

    They’re not licence troubles Scott, he _lost_ his licence. I consider it a mercy he was caught _before_ he jeapordised patients but maybe you see it differently.

    I don’t know Mark Grier – I assume you meant Geier? I’ve addressed the Geiers lack of ability many times. The others are mentioed here and there. This site has a search facility – feel free to use it. As for the others, reciting a list of names is meaningless. What peer reviewed, journal published studies regarding autism have they to their name?

    _”Will you write B. Deer and ask him to run a report on his conflict of interests?”_

    Brian Deer is a UK journalist. I doubt he’d see much call for an exposé on a not-very-prominent US personage.

    I have no idea what you’re talking about regarding Sabin and Salk.

  17. clone3g November 16, 2005 at 14:56 #

    “Perhaps you’ll address the topics of metallothionein, myelin basic protein, glutathione, CU/Zn ratios, casein, gluten and DMSA in autistics one day.”

    Probably not within the scope of this blog or the topic at hand Scott but I’ll be happy to discuss those things with you. Why do you think they’re significant?

  18. Scott Parrish November 16, 2005 at 14:58 #

    Kevin,

    A physician’s loss of license for obtaining a medication that treats insomnia does not invalidate his body of work. I believe you’re in your twenties, and postmodern (per fondness for “Autism rights” – [some one took them away???]). This would explain your inordinate respect for state licensure and disdain for private property rights. No nation has ever licensed or taxed its way into prosperity. The state licenses “professionals” to support their prolifigate spending habits and to control the “free market” to the greatest extent they can.

    The success stories of Bradstreet, Walsh are out there. To deny their existence is counterproductive. The studies are out there. The Danish study by Hivvid (sp?) defending the anti-mercury argument and its relationship to autism is flawed in its conclusions yet no one has the integrity to write about that in “respected’ journals.

    The Sabin / Salk question meant to convey that if a man is flawed in his characted that doesn’t mean his professional work is garbage. One of the best books written for learning how to interpret EKGs was written by a plastic surgeon who lost his license because he secretly videoed his female patients. His book however is excellent. This doesn’t excuse what he did but the courts and God will deal with that.

  19. Scott Parrish November 16, 2005 at 15:04 #

    Clone3g,

    William Walsh’s work (Pfeiffer Treatment Center) has identified metallothionenin dysfunction as a consistent finding in autistic kids. His work is consitent and complementary with Bradstreet’s findings. Metallothionein is stupendous at removing toxic metals from the body. It regulates copper and zinc levels. Autistics tend to have low zinc and copper overload. DMSA treatment will yield mercury in urine samples. Metallothionein enables the breakdown of casein and gluten. Many austics improve on a casein and gluten-free diet. Go to their websites and read more I’ll provide more info later when time isn’t a factor.

  20. Kev November 16, 2005 at 15:19 #

    _”A physician’s loss of license for obtaining a medication that treats insomnia does not invalidate his body of work.”_

    No, but it makes one look extremley critically at the work produced. Its a matter of trust.

    _”I believe you’re in your twenties, and postmodern (per fondness for “Autism rights” – [some one took them away???]).”_

    In my twenties? I wish you were right Scott. I’m in my late 30’s but thanks for the back handed patronisation.

    I have no fondness for ‘autism rights’, what I have is a belief in the rights of all people, including autistics. Do you believe your kids have the same rights as their non-autistic peers? Did you have a battle to get your kids into an apporpriate school? Do you get tutted and stared at whenever your kids do something someone else decides is inapproriate? No? Then I guess you’re one of the lucky ones Scott.

    _”The success stories of Bradstreet, Walsh are out there. To deny their existence is counterproductive. The studies are out there.”_

    Don’t shirk the question Scott. I didn’t ask for ‘success stories’ and thats not what we were discussing. You mentioned evidence-led theories and I asked for peer reviewed journal published studies. Can you provide them or not?

    _”The Danish study by Hivvid (sp?) defending the anti-mercury argument and its relationship to autism is flawed in its conclusions yet no one has the integrity to write about that in “respected’ journals>”_

    If its flawed then I entirely agree. Why don’t _you_ write about it and submit it for peer review?

    _”The Sabin / Salk question meant to convey that if a man is flawed in his characted that doesn’t mean his professional work is garbage.”_

    Oh, I see. Again, I agree. Thats not quite what happened with dear old Hugh though is it? Quite apart from the shady obtaining of dodgy medicine was the fact that he ‘prescribed’ said dodgy medicine to people he had ‘no bone fida physician patient relationship’ with, that he also used to allow the nursing staff at his practice to sign his name for prescriptions and that he had sustained a disability that made his licence invalid.

  21. clone3g November 16, 2005 at 16:01 #

    Scott said:
    William Walsh’s work (Pfeiffer Treatment Center) has identified metallothionenin dysfunction as a consistent finding in autistic kids. His work is consitent and complementary with Bradstreet’s findings. Metallothionein is stupendous at removing toxic metals from the body. It regulates copper and zinc levels. Autistics tend to have low zinc and copper overload. DMSA treatment will yield mercury in urine samples. Metallothionein enables the breakdown of casein and gluten. Many austics improve on a casein and gluten-free diet. Go to their websites and read more I’ll provide more info later when time isn’t a factor.

    Yeah, the Pfeiffernusse clinic is all about MT but no matter what Bill Walsh says that he’s identified, it hasn’t been reported to a peer reviewed journal and other research groups aren’t seeing it. Walsh’s grasp of protein chemistry is such that he thinks supplementing amino acids in the right ratios will magically assemble themselves into metallothionein. You know what “promotes” metallothionein? Mercury and other metals so stimulating MT production wouldn’t seem to be the problem. Bill also said that secretin probably helps because it provides some of the amino acids necessary for detox pathways.

    So tell me, how does Metallothionein enable the breakdown of casein and gluten?

    Bradstreet wouldn’t know a peptide from a peppermint and that isn’t meant as an insult. He isn’t a scientist.

  22. Anne November 20, 2005 at 18:36 #

    Scott, 30 years ago, when I was in my twenties, the standard treatment for autism was behavior modification with the use of severe aversives.

    The standard treatment for autism is still behavior modification – severe aversives are no longer openly part of the program, but they are used at times. And despite all evidence that autism is not treatable by medication, it appears standard in some areas to prescribe antipsychotics or neuroleptics for autism. For example, William Freund was put on Geodon, which has known side effects of anxiety, agitation and psychosis.

    Support services for autistic adults also include behavior modification, forced medication and institutionalization. In schools and “residential” facilities, the management of autistic kids and adults includes the improper use of restraints and seclusion, and sometimes results in the death of the autistic person.

    Alternative “treatments for autism” have included homeopathy, cranial-sacral therapy, chelation, special diets, exorcism, holding therapy, telepathy, hyperbaric oxygen, megadoses of certain vitamins and minerals, and probably many other “treatment” protocols that don’t spring to mind readily.

    I may not be “post-modern,” but I think that autistic people should have a right to control how they are “treated,” just as anyone should. They should have a right to determine the circumstances in which they live, just as anyone should. They should have a right to be heard about the efficacy and ethics of treatment that is inflicted on autistic children, just as any adult should have the right to contest practices that they consider abusive.

    You ask whether “someone” took the rights of autistic people away? The answer may be no, because they didn’t have the rights in the first place. If you asked whether somebody has denied autistic people these rights, the answer would be yes.

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