Of Rashid Buttar and Stephen Hawking

23 Apr

I was recently sent the following link (thank you JNB ;o) ) which announces the creation of the ‘Cutler Hawking Project’. At first I suspected the formation of some soft rock combo but a quick glance at the site in question soon alleviated my doubts.

The majority of people need very strong evidence before they start believing in non-mainstream treatments, and this is the reason why we decided to contact Stephen Hawking to convince him to try Andy Cutler’s chelation protocol – so he can serve as an example. Confining him to a wheelchair since his mid 20’s, Mr. Hawking is a brilliant and famous English physicist who is suffering tragically from Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, a disease caused by chronic mercury poisoning. Now 63, he can only speak with the help of a computer voice synthesizer.

Oh, it gets better.

The reason why we selected Mr. Hawking is because of his very unique situation. If we convince a man of his mega-stature in the scientific community to try Andy Cutler’s protocol and he subsequently recovers from such debility, that would convince even the biggest of skeptics. Because Mr. Hawking has been confined to a wheelchair for such a long time, and since he is so famous, no doctor could come up with another reasonable excuse for his recovery, and no doctor could write it off as a faked illness, as it would be too obvious that the mercury amalgam & vaccine issue is real and that Andy Cutler’s mercury chelation protocol really works. Mr. Hawking would be living proof! There is no other person in the world that could make a stronger case! It makes a dynamic difference when you see a celebrity talk about a certain treatment, and see that person get out of the wheelchair after 35 years and walk again, and we believe that news channels would report on this “miracle” worldwide!

OK, so here’s a group of people who believe first and foremost that a whole range of things are caused by mercury poisoning – autism, bad backs, and apparently Motor Neurone Disease has now joined that elite group. Lucky lucky Professor Hawking. Why lucky? Because chelation will cure him!!! Yay!!!!!

Except…neither Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, nor indeed any other forum of neurone disease is caused by mercury poisoning. The official line is:

The cause of ALS is not known, and scientists do not yet know why ALS strikes some people and not others…in searching for the cause of ALS, researchers have also studied environmental factors such as exposure to toxic or infectious agents. Other research has examined the possible role of dietary deficiency or trauma. However, as of yet, there is insufficient evidence to implicate these factors as causes of ALS…Future research may show that many factors, including a genetic predisposition, are involved in the development of ALS.

Sounds strangely familiar doesn’t it?

And so we’re presented with the mental picture of some fairly odd people attempting to bother a sick old man just so they can try and persuade him to undergo some therapy. Nice.

And yet, it’s still not as bad as another treatment I heard about. Apparently Dr Rashid Buttar, adored by mercury boys and girls all over the world, the man who can cure cancer and reverse old age as well as cure autism with skin cream recommends another intriguing treatment for young kids – and this time, he’s not confining it to autistic kids: oh no, this ones good for _everyone_ :

Have any of your tried, or even heard anything about, doing urine shots to help the immune system? I don’t know much about it yet, but I know you use your child’s own urine, and filter it with special filters, before injecting it into their hip. I’ve heard really good things about it from a friend who tried it.

No, its not a joke. The answers came thick and fast:

I only know this was described to me to be a procedure used by Dr. Buttar about a year ago when my son was his patient, but the nurse said it would require an extended stay near the clinic and we live in Texas. We never tried it and moved on to another doctor.

Leslie, Chelatingkids2.

I’ll bet you did Leslie.

This was recommended by Dr. Buttar’s office for my NT son who has tons of allergies. I believe Dr. Imam in NY does it. It sounded too “out there” for us so we are currently sticking with justchelation for him.

Sangeeta, Chelatingkids2

Yeah, just chelation. That’s not ‘out there’ at all.

My grandson went through this beginning in October. It was a once a week treatment for 10 weeks. Before he began, he had lots of allergy problems that would often advance into sinus infection and ear infections. It’s almost April and he has not had one problem since. The only thing that I see is an occasional stuffy nose that lasts only a very short time.

andreagrammy.

Just in case you think you read it wrong, you didn’t. Rashid Buttar and others recommend taking some of the childs urine, filtering it and then injecting it back into them. This is apparently good for the immune system. Yummy.

231 Responses to “Of Rashid Buttar and Stephen Hawking”

  1. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) April 30, 2006 at 11:55 #

    bonni: “Wow. Paranoid much?”

    I’d say a hell of a lot, actually.

    I just wish he’d leave Pete and Roger out of it… 😉

  2. bonni April 30, 2006 at 12:00 #

    The thing is, governmental agencies can barely get coordinated enough to exchange documentation. I can’t imagine how the hell they’d manage to organize a worldwide international conspiracy.

  3. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) April 30, 2006 at 12:18 #

    Yeh….

    KC’s a bit paranoid. His problem, not ours.

  4. Sue M. April 30, 2006 at 18:21 #

    Bonni wrote:

    ” I can’t imagine how the hell they’d manage to organize a worldwide international conspiracy”.

    – Right. Exactly. That’s the reason why we will win and you will lose. It’s quite clear that there have been failures throughout this entire autism/thimerosal debacle. No one can argue against that. It’s a matter of putting the pieces together. Now, in the end, that may amount to simply a bad job of trying to cover the asses of people who made some bad decisions along the way or whatever OR it could mean that thousands of children were injured by childhood vaccinations. Which is it? That’s the question that needs to be addressed in my opinion.

    I know that the website http://www.putchildrenfirst.org has been mentioned here before and I know your feelings on JB but it really is interesting to read all the e-mails from people in power back in the late 1990’s- early 2000’s. Wow. Incompetence. That’s all that can be said. To watch the Deputy Director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (National Immunization Program) Diane Simpson misspell thimerosal on a few occassions is frightening (she was spelling it thimerosol). I know the spelling thing again… but it shows ignorance and how the topic is brand new to her yet she is “heading” the group who is supposed to be looking into the issue. What? I acknowledge that it is a tricky word, but come on? Now, does that prove anything about thimerosal triggering autism? No, but it sure as hell proves ignorance and the fact that people were in way over their heads. Check out the website. Seriously.

  5. Kev April 30, 2006 at 18:37 #

    I’ll get to the rest of your points shortly Sue but first you might want to note that ‘thimerosol’ is a legitimate spelling of thiomersal/thimerosal:

    Why even people such as Dr Mercola and Dan Burton use it!

    Tell me you knew that Sue or i guess we’ll just have to assume massive ignorance.

  6. Sue M. April 30, 2006 at 18:53 #

    I see that Kev missed me… What do you think the chances are that Diane Simpson knew that she was using the “alternative” spelling of thimerosal? Ha ha. Not a chance in hell, Kev. She was ignorant. She shows her ignorance in many other ways… Did you read ALL the e-mails on the website referenced above? It’s a trip. Really. She was in way over her head. It is quite obvious. Are you going to argue with me about that?

  7. Kev April 30, 2006 at 19:03 #

    Oh I _see_ – so when someone from the evil CDC/FDA/Blah blah uses a _correct_ spelling of a word its down to ignorance. But when you tell everybody that the correct spelling of a word is not correct then its not?

    I guess there’s some logic in there somewhere Sue. Or possibly not.

    And as I said Sue, I’ll get back to you on your other points. I just wanted to point out your stupider mistakes first.

  8. Sue M. April 30, 2006 at 19:31 #

    Kev wrote:

    “Oh I see – so when someone from the evil CDC/FDA/Blah blah uses a correct spelling of a word its down to ignorance. But when you tell everybody that the correct spelling of a word is not correct then its not”?

    – Oh, ok, Kev. You got me. Diane Simpson knew that she was using the “alternative” spelling of thimerosal. She was just trying to show her superior knowledge of the subject to those fools that she was e-mailing. It was a brilliant move on her part. She sure fooled me.
    Now, back to reality. Read all the e-mails in Chapter 4 on the website above. It is hilarious (in a sick sort of way). The ignorance is overwhelming. Take a special look at the e-mail that she sent to Dr. Marta Granstrom. Read Dr. Granstrom’s response back to Dr. Simpson. Classic. Note, the reference to the spelling issue (do you think that Dr. Granstrom thought that Diane Simpson was using her superior knowledge to show her ability to use both thimerosal and thimerosol interchangeably). Hardly. She even spells out that thiomersal is the European equivalent to thimerosol/thimerosal as not to confuse poor Dr. Simpson. It’s all in the spelling…. just kidding about that… It is all about the ignorance and being in way over your head… Sadly. Just read all the information which the site gives you (I know it will be painful for you to sink so low, but just do it).

  9. Sue M. April 30, 2006 at 20:09 #

    Kev,

    Clearly you have decided against visiting the website. Here’s a hint: you should. Unless you are a fool it will help you to understand that Dr. Simpson was in way over her head. It’s not just about the spelling errors, Kev. I hope that you understand that. I’m sure that you’ll harp on that and how I got it all wrong (hardly)… but it’s beyond that. It is about the ignorance and the absurdity of the situation. Again, not proving that thimerosal/thimerosol/thiomersal/thiomersol causes autism but proving that the powers to be didn’t have a clue. Why won’t you read the information, Kev? Why? Why won’t you read Dr. Marta Granstrom’s e-mail back to Diane Simpson? You would have more credibility with me if you read them and then tried to show me how they don’t prove ignorance or being in way over your head? Your lack of desire to look into the matter says a lot.

  10. Sue M. April 30, 2006 at 20:22 #

    Oh boy, I made an error in my discussion about Dr. Marta Granstrom and Dr. Simpson’s communications. Kev, it will due you good to go the e-mails in question to figure out where I made my mistake. Can you find it?

  11. clone3g April 30, 2006 at 20:30 #

    Sue M. Unless you are a fool it will help you to understand that Dr. Simpson was in way over her head.

    Sue, I don’t know who Dr. Simpson is and I don’t care. She may be the biggest fool on the planet for all I know — How does that make it any more likely that thimerasshole causes autism?

    Hey, while we are on the subject, you never answered my earlier question. How might thimerosal cause autoimmune diabetes?

  12. Dad Of Cameron April 30, 2006 at 20:37 #

    It’s quite clear that there have been failures throughout this entire autism/thimerosal debacle. No one can argue against that.

    Except to point out that you might be begging the question. There is no scientific proof that Thimerosal (ethylmercury) causes autism, and there is no scientfic proof that autistics have higher levels of mercury. There aren’t even any agreed upon standard scientific methodologies (or supporting normative studies) for determining mercury burden/toxicty in autistic children.

    This would be more accurately described as a “Thimerosal debacle”. Bringing autism into it without proof is an assertion, unless you’re not referring to the scientific facts, in which case it could be accurately described as the “autism/Thimerosal conspiracy debacle”.

  13. Kev April 30, 2006 at 21:49 #

    _”Clearly you have decided against visiting the website. “_

    I read it the day it was announced.

    _”Unless you are a fool it will help you to understand that Dr. Simpson was in way over her head.”_

    Why? Because she didn’t misspell something you thought she had? What other fascinating bits of evidence do you have?

    _”It is about the ignorance and the absurdity of the situation.”_

    No argument there. Look at yourself Sue. You start frothing at the mouth about how scary it is that Dr Simpson doesn’t even know how to spell thimerosal and how that indicates how poorly informed she is/was – except it turns out she _does_ know how to spell thimerosol and in fact _you_ are the one who is poorly informed in that matter.

    _”Why won’t you read the information, Kev? Why?”_

    Why, despite my statement that I have, do you insist on saying I haven’t? I really don’t know how else to say it. I understand you have a duty to keep cranking up the old conspiracy theory machine but please, just for once – drop the melodrama and _read_ what people say to you.

    _”You would have more credibility with me if you read them and then tried to show me how they don’t prove ignorance or being in way over your head?”_

    Do you seriously imagine I really care about having credibility with an anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist such as yourself? Good God, you think a lot of yourself.

    _”Your lack of desire to look into the matter says a lot.”_

    Once again, I’ve looked, I found nothing particularly revalatory. I invite you once again – in your own words – to tell me exactly what you find disturbing and why.

    This is just a repeat of ‘the danish studies’ – you’re great at telling everyone that something is bogus but you can never say why. The truth is – JB/SafeMinds/David Kirby said it and that’s good enough for you. Reasons don’t matter, right? Well, come on – here’s your chance, lay it all out for us: In Sue’s own words, she will now give us a point by point run down on whatever it is she finds terrifying (aside from knowing how to spell thimerosol) about something or other. Hope thats not too vague for anyone.

  14. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) April 30, 2006 at 22:23 #

    SueM: “That’s the reason why we will win and you will lose.”

    And ultimately, that is *all* that matters to you…. *not* what is accurate and scientifically valid, but whether or not you win, and take home a shitload of money isn’t it?

    Sad to see greed overtake common sense.

  15. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) April 30, 2006 at 22:25 #

    Kev: “When are you going to start doing your own research Sue?”

    I’m betting ‘never’. Much safer to pontificate as she does from a position of ignorance….

  16. clone3g April 30, 2006 at 22:45 #

    Äthylquecksilberschwefelsalizylat dummkopf

  17. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 00:05 #

    Is Thimerasol also an acceptable spelling for thimerosal? There were two brainchildren from the NIP (Robert Chen and Kim Waggoner) who were spelling it like this in June of 2001. Again, it’s not truly about the spelling — it’s the ignorance of the “experts”.

  18. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 00:27 #

    Clone wrote:

    “Sue, I don’t know who Dr. Simpson is and I don’t care. She may be the biggest fool on the planet for all I know—How does that make it any more likely that thimerasshole causes autism”?

    – It does nothing to implicate thimerosal with causing autism. It shows ignorance. I’m quite sure that I made that clear.

    Clone wrote:

    “Hey, while we are on the subject, you never answered my earlier question. How might thimerosal cause autoimmune diabetes”?

    – No, I answered it, you just missed it. I have said before that I don’t know if thimerosal causes type 1 diabetes. I have also said that it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if there was a link… I can’t say much more than that, though.

  19. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 00:30 #

    Dad wrote:

    “This would be more accurately described as a “Thimerosal debacle”.

    – Ok, I can work with that… as long as “debacle” gets in there somewhere.

  20. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 00:36 #

    Kev wrote:

    “except it turns out she does know how to spell thimerosol and in fact you are the one who is poorly informed in that matter”.

    – You think, Kev. You really think she knew how to spell it? How about Dr. Chen and Kimberly Waggoner? Do you think that they were coming up with spelling of thimerasol to impress their friends? Come on. They didn’t know what the hell they were talking about… It doesn’t make them bad people … it doesn’t make them these evil-doers … it makes them ignorant to the entire situation back in 2001… that’s all.

  21. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 00:39 #

    Kev wrote:

    “In Sue’s own words, she will now give us a point by point run down on whatever it is she finds terrifying (aside from knowing how to spell thimerosol) about something or other. Hope thats not too vague for anyone”.

    – Ignorant in 2001. That’s all. Hopefully that is not too vague for anyone.

  22. clone3g May 1, 2006 at 00:42 #

    Sad that you are left to argue the preferred spelling over anything resembling science.

  23. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 00:49 #

    So, it doesn’t strike you as odd that someone who couldn’t spell the word thimerosal in 2001 (don’t let Kev fool you) was suddenly one of the authors of a study saying that there was no correlation between autism and thimerosal in 2003?

    Click to access 5.4.pdf

    Say what? At least they had someone with a brain proofread their work so that Diane Simpson didn’t have to explain the thimerosol/thimerosal issue. I would guess that only about 1/4 of the population would fall for the “I was using the ‘alternative’ spelling of thimerosal”.

  24. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 00:52 #

    Clone wrote:

    “Sad that you are left to argue the preferred spelling over anything resembling science”.

    – Remember Clone, it’s not about the spelling…. How about that “science” that Diane Simpson helped to author in 2003? Bah…

  25. Anne May 1, 2006 at 00:54 #

    Okay, I went and read the Simpson/Granstrom e-mails. There is nothing in there about exonerating thimerosal or about autism. If there’s a joke in there somewhere, it went over my head.

    Anne

  26. Anne May 1, 2006 at 01:09 #

    Sue wrote: “Kev, it will due [sic] you good to go [sic] the e-mails in question to figure out where I made my mistake.”

    I don’t get what you’re saying about the e-mails, other than that Simpson was ignorant about the preferred spelling of thimerosal. I don’t understand why Handley says that Simpson’s e-mail was “not well received” by Granstrom. Your point continues to elude me.

    Anne

  27. Ruth May 1, 2006 at 01:25 #

    If you know chemistry, you know thio means sulfur. Thiomerosal seems a more logical name, maybe not as good for marketing. Just as polycyanide became polyacrylonitrile.

  28. Bartholomew Cubbins May 1, 2006 at 01:29 #

    thimerasshole

    GR dictionary: you only get poisoned if you get shot in the rear

  29. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 01:38 #

    Anne wrote:

    “Your point continues to elude me”.

    – My point is simple. Grandstrom had more knowledge about thimerosal in his/her left pinky nail than our Acting Deputy Director for the National Immunization Program did in her entire being. Yet somehow this Acting Deputy Director for the National Immunization Program somehow was one of the authors of a paper saying that there was no connection between autism/thimerosal. How does that happen? Personally, I would like to see more of Grandstrom’s opinion.

  30. clone3g May 1, 2006 at 02:50 #

    So the point you wanted to make is that a person seems more knowledgeable (to you) because their spellchecker is set to use the same spelling you prefer? In that case, well done Sue.

    We’ve also learned –

    – Your interest in this stems from your belief that thimerosal caused your children to develop celiac and diabetes, not autism, but you have no idea how thimerosal might contribute to one or any of those things.

    – When a person has a point of view different from yours, they are ignorant fools.

    Quick question Sue, if thimerosal causes celiac, diabetes, and autism, shouldn’t there be a relationship between the three? Is that an ignorant question?

  31. Ms Clark May 1, 2006 at 05:26 #

    Goodness, Thiomersal has about 20 legitimate names/variations of spelling. Someone on EoHarm has posted them a couple of times.
    These are from pubchem:

    thimerosal
    Mercurothiolate
    Thimerosalate
    Thiomersalate
    Thimerosol
    Thimersalate
    Thiomerosal
    Thiomersal
    Thiomersalat
    Merfamin
    Merseptyl
    Mertorgan
    Merzonin
    Nosemack
    Elicide
    Estivin
    Merphol
    Merzonin sodium
    Merthiolate salt
    Merthiolate sodium
    Sodium merthiolate
    Thimerosal solution
    Thimerosol solution
    Elcide 75
    MERTHIOLATE
    Merzonin, sodium salt
    Ethylmercurithiosalicylate sodium
    Sodium ethylmercurithiosalicylate
    NSC3908
    NSC3909
    NSC4794
    Sodium ethylmercuric thiosalicylate
    Sodium o-(ethylmercurithio)benzoate
    Sodium 2-(ethylmercurithio)benzoate
    Ethylmercurithiosalicylate sodium salt
    Ethylmercurithiosalicyclic acid, sodium salt
    o-(Ethylmercurithio)benzoic acid sodium salt
    [(o-Carboxyphenyl)thio]ethylmercury sodium salt
    Sodium salt of 2-(carboxyphenyl)thioethylmercury
    Mercury, [(o-carboxyphenyl)thio]ethyl-, sodium salt
    Mercury, ethyl(2-mercaptobenzoato-S)-, sodium salt
    Mercurate(1-), ethyl[o-mercaptobenzoato(2-)]-, sodium
    Mercury, ethyl (hydrogen o-mercaptobenzoato)-, sodium salt
    Mercurate (1-), ethyl[2-mercaptobenzoato(2-)-O,S]-, sodium
    5396-12-3
    54-64-8
    5401-59-2
    SET

    But Sue’s point is that just now, after all these years the smart guys (ambulence chasers along with the tin foil hat brigade) are starting to crack through the Ultra Sneaky Vast International Conspiracy to Thimerosal Injection Manufacturers Shield.

    OK, Sue. If you say so.

    I must say that little break away did wonders for you.

    How about them urine therapy injections? Maybe they cure Celiac, you should check with Buttar on that. He’s a great guy, just ask Kevin Champagne, the truck driver.

  32. Kevin Champagne May 1, 2006 at 05:44 #

    “How about them urine therapy injections? Maybe they cure Celiac, you should check with Buttar on that. He’s a great guy, just ask Kevin Champagne, the truck driver.”

    I don’t know.

    Maybe Camille Clark the part time apartment cleaner living in subsidized housing knows? She knows everything, just ask her, she’ll tell ya!

  33. Kev May 1, 2006 at 05:45 #

    _”Is Thimerasol also an acceptable spelling for thimerosal? There were two brainchildren from the NIP (Robert Chen and Kim Waggoner) who were spelling it like this in June of 2001.”_

    Well, lets see what those ‘branichildren’ at Moms On A Mission For Autism think. Or maybe the ‘experts’ at Progressive Convergence, or maybe a staunch supporter of your beliefs, Senator Patrick Leahy.

    _”Again, it’s not truly about the spelling—it’s the ignorance of the “experts”.”_

    Except Sue – _you_ made it about the spelling in your first post to this thread. You tried to illustrate a relationship between a misspelling and someone’s ignorance. Trouble is, that it _wasn’t_ a misspelling.

    _”Ignorant in 2001″_

    Your whole evidence base for which is that someone misspelled a word…except they didn’t.

    Sue M: ignorant in 2004, 2005, 2006…continue ad nauseum…

  34. Ms Clark May 1, 2006 at 07:11 #

    Kevin Champagne,

    You are a LIAR! 🙂

    You really need to quit telling lies, it’s not good for you.

    I *used to be a part time apartment cleaner*. It was a really dirty job, but someone had to do it. Right now my “pay” comes from being a student. But I’m paying myself out of loans that I have to repay, besides what I get from grants (because I got good grades earlier) and a small scholarship.

    As of now I have all the credits I need to have graduated a few weeks ago with an AB in psychology from a somewhat prestigious university, well known university and home to the MIND insitute, supposedly a “center for excellence” in autism research. I am now a member of Psi Chi the pychology honor society because my grades in psych classes are high enough to get in there. I think they take the top 1/3 of the psych students, something like that. So, maybe I’m an AB psych (pend) hons? (I have no idea what it would look like in the UK) You can’t get into the psych program at UCD unless you have a certain grade level, because it’s a popular program they make it a little harder to get in.

    I’m also working as a research assistant to a psych professor, but that’s unpaid. As much as you’d like to think I’m a paid pharma shill, Kevin, I’m just a poor student. Too poor to afford typical (astronomical) rents here.

  35. Dad Of Cameron May 1, 2006 at 07:21 #

    “Personally, I would like to see more of Grandstrom’s opinion.”

    Sue, It would be so refreshing if just once, you were looking for scientific reality rather than someone’s opinion to believe. I think you might be, somewhere inside, you’re just taking the belief route (which tends to have a lot of wrong turns and heavily pursued dead ends).

    I kind of think like Anne at this point. I don’t see the relevance of the e-mails. Government has incompetent people in it just like the private sector (maybe even more so), so what? I’ll try on the tin foil hat for a minute. I’d be looking for someone who really knows their stuff and is evil – someone who can really pull-off and orchestrate an alleged cover-up, because they’re smart enough to cover every angle and pursuade thousands of others to go along with it complicitly. I don’t see that with Simpson.

    I agree with you Sue, it is a debacle. Bungled, mishandled, all of that stuff. I don’t see the conspiracy any more than George Bush is a mastermind trying to take over the world. That certainly doesn’t mean it can’t be possible, only lots of proof can demonstrate that.

    So she’s listed on the study, so what? Lab assitants are listed on studies (apologies to any published lab assitants). That paper is open to refutation on the data it contains – it doesn’t matter if she’s a typist.

  36. bonni May 1, 2006 at 13:54 #

    thimerosal caused your children to develop celiac and diabetes, not autism

    Good Lord, is there ANY disease, disorder, syndrome, or condition that is NOT caused by thimerisol?!

  37. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 13:58 #

    Neither the list which Kev posted nor Camille’s list show thimerasol as a proper spellling for thimerosal. Can someone please alert Robert Chen and Kim Waggoner that back in 2001 they were ignorant to the thimerosal issue. They should know that….

  38. Kevin Champagne May 1, 2006 at 14:01 #

    Camille, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ… I don’t care?

  39. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 14:14 #

    Kev wrote:

    “Except Sue – you made it about the spelling in your first post to this thread. You tried to illustrate a relationship between a misspelling and someone’s ignorance. Trouble is, that it wasn’t a misspelling”.

    – You are absolutely correct, Kev. I did make it about the spelling because it was fun to do. The spelling errors are the symbol of other issues … ignorance and incompetence.

    Let me ask you this question. Bring you back to 2001. The thimeresel/autism “debate” is kicking in… You are deciding whether or not to vaccinate your infant with thimmarosal containing vaccinations or not (your pediatrician only has the thiommeerosal containing DTaP vaccine on hand but the non-thimeroosoll containing vacc won’t be available for 3 months or so). You can call one expert to help you make the decision (you really want to make the right decision) who do you call Diane Simpson or Marta Granstrom?

  40. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 14:24 #

    Dad wrote:

    “I agree with you Sue, it is a debacle. Bungled, mishandled, all of that stuff. I don’t see the conspiracy any more than George Bush is a mastermind trying to take over the world. That certainly doesn’t mean it can’t be possible, only lots of proof can demonstrate that”.

    – I actually think that these particular e-mails show more about ignorance and incompetence than any conspiracy. I had/have a hard time with all the conspiracy stuff. That’s not to say that there wasn’t or still isn’t some of that going on… For the most part though, it’s the ignorance. The acting Deputy Director of the NIP being rather clueless about the thimerosal issue. Ignorant. So she’s one of the top dogs? She’s not even intelligent enough on this issue to be part of a conspiracy…

  41. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 14:32 #

    David wrote”

    “And ultimately, that is all that matters to you…. not what is accurate and scientifically valid, but whether or not you win, and take home a shitload of money isn’t it?

    Sad to see greed overtake common sense”.

    – Not that this is even worthy of my time but…. where will I be getting a shitload of money? I have never nor will I ever bring any sort of lawsuit against anyone in this matter whatsoever. Hopefully that is direct enough for you. That is not to say that I would be against other people doing so… As for you, David, I hear that the “Jailbirds” will be casting soon… do you resemble Paul Offit at all?

  42. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 14:36 #

    Bonni wrote:

    “thimerosal caused your children to develop celiac and diabetes, not autism”.

    – Bonni, unless Clone can show you where I have implicated thimeeroosol as THE cause of any of my children’s conditions, then please understand that these are Clone’s views projected upon me… not my views. You understand that, correct?

  43. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 14:39 #

    I hit “say it” too early… I believe that it is entirely POSSIBLE that thimerosal or other vaccine reactions could trigger these issues. For me, it is an ongoing debate… not a done deal either way.

  44. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 14:59 #

    Dad wrote:

    “Sue, It would be so refreshing if just once, you were looking for scientific reality rather than someone’s opinion to believe. I think you might be, somewhere inside, you’re just taking the belief route (which tends to have a lot of wrong turns and heavily pursued dead ends)”.

    – Ok, fair enough. Let me rephrase my point. I would like to see any and all of the “scientific” information that Granstrom may have had which led him/her to try so hard to ban thimerosal from vaccines. Then, I would like to hear Granstrom’s opinion in regards to this scientific information (if applicable). Wouldn’t you if you were the Acting Deputy Director of the National Immunization Program back in 2001? Now, maybe Diane Simpson got this information from Granstrom and found it to be bogus… I would then like to see her scientific information or even her commentary on why she finds Granstrom’s opinion to be wrong. This does not count (due to flawed epidemiology):

    Click to access 5.4.pdf

  45. Kev May 1, 2006 at 17:01 #

    _”Neither the list which Kev posted….show thimerasol as a proper spellling for thimerosal.”_

    _ALL_ mine do Sue.
    _”You are absolutely correct, Kev. I did make it about the spelling because it was fun to do. The spelling errors are the symbol of other issues … ignorance and incompetence.”_

    Except there were no spelling errors Sue – just plain old assumption and stupidity on your part. Seriously Sue, you’re making yourself looking sillier and sillier.

    _”You can call one expert to help you make the decision (you really want to make the right decision) who do you call Diane Simpson or Marta Granstrom?”_

    Neither – I talk to my GP.

  46. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) May 1, 2006 at 17:11 #

    SueM: “As for you, David, I hear that the “Jailbirds” will be casting soon… do you resemble Paul Offit at all?”

    I resemble me. Nobody else. I’m an individual.

    You are, form what we see here, like almost every other mercury-parent in the US…

    I must have hit a nerve with what I said to get *that* sort of response, Sue!

    Something ring true?

  47. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 17:24 #

    Kev wrote:

    “ALL mine do Sue”.

    – Really? I would go back and recheck that Kev. Remember, I am now talking about the nitwits Chen/Waggoner who spelled it incorrectly this time. Hopefully you are not confusing them with the other nitwit Diane Simpson who had used the “alternative” spelling of thimerosal. Please advise. Note, I’m sure that these people are good citizens and I use the word nitwit as a term of endearment meaning ignorant and uninformed….

    Kev wrote:

    ” Seriously Sue, you’re making yourself looking sillier and sillier”.

    – I may look silly… but sillier and sillier is going overboard considering the above error on your part 🙂

    Kev wrote:

    “Neither – I talk to my GP”.

    – Oops, wrong answer. You GP probably got his/her info from Diane Simpson or the equivalent to her in the UK. It would have been a better idea to get your information from someone with a clue…

  48. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 17:36 #

    David wrote:

    “I must have hit a nerve with what I said to get that sort of response, Sue!

    Something ring true”?

    – I’m not following you… what would be ringing true? As for you, you were suggesting where my shitload of money could come from (which I pointed out is obviously false) … I was just trying to suggest that you go out for a role in “Jailbirds” … that could have some pretty good money in it…

  49. Kev May 1, 2006 at 17:50 #

    _”Really? I would go back and recheck that Kev.”_

    1) Visit pages.
    2) Hold down your ctrl key and tap the ‘f’ key once. This allows you to search all text in the page. Type in ‘thimerasol’ into the search box and hit ‘find next’.

  50. Kev May 1, 2006 at 18:27 #

    _”I may look silly… but sillier and sillier is going overboard considering the above error on your part :)”_

    Tell me again about my error Sue. I can’t wait.

    _”Oops, wrong answer. You GP probably got his/her info from Diane Simpson or the equivalent to her in the UK. It would have been a better idea to get your information from someone with a clue… “_

    It’s not very often I’m at a loss for words Sue but sometimes you manage it. The sheer breadth and depth of your ignorance is stupifying. You join this thread and make yourself look more and more foolish and then have enough self delusion to think that those same ‘skills’ you have at processing written words lead you to the conclusion that – based on a non-existent spelling error – everyone who disagrees with you is inherently incorrect.

    I’m genuinely curious Sue – is this _wilful_ self-deception – do you not _want_ to learn? Or is it just down to an inability to think for yourself?

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