Of Rashid Buttar and Stephen Hawking

23 Apr

I was recently sent the following link (thank you JNB ;o) ) which announces the creation of the ‘Cutler Hawking Project’. At first I suspected the formation of some soft rock combo but a quick glance at the site in question soon alleviated my doubts.

The majority of people need very strong evidence before they start believing in non-mainstream treatments, and this is the reason why we decided to contact Stephen Hawking to convince him to try Andy Cutler’s chelation protocol – so he can serve as an example. Confining him to a wheelchair since his mid 20’s, Mr. Hawking is a brilliant and famous English physicist who is suffering tragically from Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, a disease caused by chronic mercury poisoning. Now 63, he can only speak with the help of a computer voice synthesizer.

Oh, it gets better.

The reason why we selected Mr. Hawking is because of his very unique situation. If we convince a man of his mega-stature in the scientific community to try Andy Cutler’s protocol and he subsequently recovers from such debility, that would convince even the biggest of skeptics. Because Mr. Hawking has been confined to a wheelchair for such a long time, and since he is so famous, no doctor could come up with another reasonable excuse for his recovery, and no doctor could write it off as a faked illness, as it would be too obvious that the mercury amalgam & vaccine issue is real and that Andy Cutler’s mercury chelation protocol really works. Mr. Hawking would be living proof! There is no other person in the world that could make a stronger case! It makes a dynamic difference when you see a celebrity talk about a certain treatment, and see that person get out of the wheelchair after 35 years and walk again, and we believe that news channels would report on this “miracle” worldwide!

OK, so here’s a group of people who believe first and foremost that a whole range of things are caused by mercury poisoning – autism, bad backs, and apparently Motor Neurone Disease has now joined that elite group. Lucky lucky Professor Hawking. Why lucky? Because chelation will cure him!!! Yay!!!!!

Except…neither Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, nor indeed any other forum of neurone disease is caused by mercury poisoning. The official line is:

The cause of ALS is not known, and scientists do not yet know why ALS strikes some people and not others…in searching for the cause of ALS, researchers have also studied environmental factors such as exposure to toxic or infectious agents. Other research has examined the possible role of dietary deficiency or trauma. However, as of yet, there is insufficient evidence to implicate these factors as causes of ALS…Future research may show that many factors, including a genetic predisposition, are involved in the development of ALS.

Sounds strangely familiar doesn’t it?

And so we’re presented with the mental picture of some fairly odd people attempting to bother a sick old man just so they can try and persuade him to undergo some therapy. Nice.

And yet, it’s still not as bad as another treatment I heard about. Apparently Dr Rashid Buttar, adored by mercury boys and girls all over the world, the man who can cure cancer and reverse old age as well as cure autism with skin cream recommends another intriguing treatment for young kids – and this time, he’s not confining it to autistic kids: oh no, this ones good for _everyone_ :

Have any of your tried, or even heard anything about, doing urine shots to help the immune system? I don’t know much about it yet, but I know you use your child’s own urine, and filter it with special filters, before injecting it into their hip. I’ve heard really good things about it from a friend who tried it.

No, its not a joke. The answers came thick and fast:

I only know this was described to me to be a procedure used by Dr. Buttar about a year ago when my son was his patient, but the nurse said it would require an extended stay near the clinic and we live in Texas. We never tried it and moved on to another doctor.

Leslie, Chelatingkids2.

I’ll bet you did Leslie.

This was recommended by Dr. Buttar’s office for my NT son who has tons of allergies. I believe Dr. Imam in NY does it. It sounded too “out there” for us so we are currently sticking with justchelation for him.

Sangeeta, Chelatingkids2

Yeah, just chelation. That’s not ‘out there’ at all.

My grandson went through this beginning in October. It was a once a week treatment for 10 weeks. Before he began, he had lots of allergy problems that would often advance into sinus infection and ear infections. It’s almost April and he has not had one problem since. The only thing that I see is an occasional stuffy nose that lasts only a very short time.

andreagrammy.

Just in case you think you read it wrong, you didn’t. Rashid Buttar and others recommend taking some of the childs urine, filtering it and then injecting it back into them. This is apparently good for the immune system. Yummy.

231 Responses to “Of Rashid Buttar and Stephen Hawking”

  1. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 18:53 #

    Kev wrote:

    “1) Visit pages.
    2) Hold down your ctrl key and tap the ‘f’ key once. This allows you to search all text in the page. Type in ‘thimerasol’ into the search box and hit ‘find next”.

    – Ok, it wasn’t on Camille’s list AND I actually typed it into the list that you originally posted and it wasn’t there either. I actually even went through the annoying process of holding down my control and tapping the ‘f’ key once…. I typed in ‘thimerasol’ and hit find next… still nothing. HOWEVER, I AM COMPUTER ILLITERATE. I’m sure that I did something wrong in the process. So, you are probably correct, Kev. Forgive my mistake. So accepting that fact, that I was incorrect about the multiple “alternative” spellings of thimerosal (thimerosol and thimerasol)… do I for one second believe that any of those nitwits from the CDC just happened to decide to use these “alternative” spellings of thimerosal? Hardly.

  2. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 19:08 #

    Kev wrote:

    “I’m genuinely curious Sue – is this wilful self-deception – do you not want to learn? Or is it just down to an inability to think for yourself”?

    – It seems that you are the one who has an inability to think for yourself. Personally, I thought for myself when my pediatrician told me that I was crazy to try the GF/CF diet on my child. It worked out great. I thought for myself when my husband balked at taking my son to a DAN! doctor for some help. Best money I ever spent. I thought for myself when I questioned my ped about thimerosal being in infant vaccinations… she laughed and smiled at me and told me that I was being silly because of course the Danish studies prove that there is no connection… Sure….

    As for wanting to learn… what do you want to teach? I keep waiting for something tangible from you all. I get next to nothing other than people telling me to accept each others differences and how to respect all types… That’s wonderful and I do that every single day. Do you have anything else for me? Possibly some “science”.

  3. Kev May 1, 2006 at 19:10 #

    _”Ok, it wasn’t on Camille’s list”_

    She never claimed it was – she was just pointing out there are lots of alternative spellings. And since when do you use Ms Clarke’s posts to bolster your point?

    _”So, you are probably correct, Kev.”_

    No ‘probably’ about it Sue. I and those other people you vilified for ‘misspelling’ thiomersal _are_ correct.

    _”do I for one second believe that any of those nitwits from the CDC just happened to decide to use these “alternative” spellings of thimerosal? Hardly.”_

    I’m sure you don’t. As has been pointed out to you numerous times – you’re a believer, not someone interested in the evidence or facts. However, all that is beside the point. You used these ‘misspellings’ as evidence that these people were ignorant. So far what we’ve established is:

    a) They weren’t.
    b) You are.

    So – what _else_ do you want to use to demonstrate their ignorance? Before listing it I’d recommend you do some actual research rather than just parroting JB’s old rubbish.

  4. Kev May 1, 2006 at 19:19 #

    _”It seems that you are the one who has an inability to think for yourself.”_

    Yeah, you’ve amply demonstrated your critical thinking abilities on numerous occasions – notably this thread. In order to think for onesself Sue its usually a good idea to be able to read and process information. Based on this thread, do you think you’re good at this Sue?

    _”I keep waiting for something tangible from you all….Do you have anything else for me? Possibly some “science”.”_

    As I’ve said to you before Sue – sure – what do you want first? Evidence for a lack of epidemic? Evidence that there’s no causative link between vaccines and autism?

    And what’s this insistence on science Sue? You patently don’t understand the science presented to you otherwise you wouldn’t keep citing the ‘flawed’ Danish studies withuot an explanation of why you think they’re flawed, or citing Hornig, Deth, Burbacher and Bernard as supporting the idea that thiomersal causes autism.

    A few questions I’d like answers to – _your_ answers. _Your_ opinions:

    1) Why are the Danish studies flawed or bogus?
    2) How does the Burbacher study support the diea thiomersal causes autism?
    3) Ditto Hornig study
    4) Ditto Deth study
    5) Ditto Bernard ‘study’.

    Over to you Sue.

  5. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 19:25 #

    This is actually getting pretty comical, Kev. When you wrote this:

    “ALL mine do Sue”.

    Which ALL were you referring to? Show me ALL the lists that you have which show thimerasol as an “alternative” spelling for thimerosal? While your at it show me again step by step exactly how you found it on the original list that you posted… I want to LEARN something from you (remember I am computer illiterate). You can teach me something here.

    Kev wrote:

    “No ‘probably’ about it Sue. I and those other people you vilified for ‘misspelling’ thiomersal are correct”.

    – No, no Kev. I villified them for being ignorant and incompetent in their jobs NOT for their misspellings. I thought that I was clear on that…

  6. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 19:27 #

    Kev wrote:

    “Evidence that there’s no causative link between vaccines and autism”?

    – Yeah, start there.

  7. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) May 1, 2006 at 19:27 #

    SueM: ” I thought that I was clear on that… ”

    Point is, you’re never clear on anything.

    If you were, we’d get it.

    Wade is clear, as is DH and as is María… you never are.

  8. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 19:39 #

    Kev wrote:

    “A few questions I’d like answers to – your answers. Your opinions:

    1) Why are the Danish studies flawed or bogus?
    2) How does the Burbacher study support the diea thiomersal causes autism?
    3) Ditto Hornig study
    4) Ditto Deth study
    5) Ditto Bernard ‘study’.

    Over to you Sue”.

    – It’s pretty comical that your first question is in regards to asking me about the Danish studies, Kev. Where were you when I was more than willing to discuss this over on Orac’s blog? It was like a friggin’ morgue over there when Kristjan starting analyzing one of the studies. Where were you? I know that you knew about the thread… where was all of your commentary? As for all the other studies, Kev. As you obviously know, I am NOT a scientist. I can also attest to the fact that none of these studies conclude conclusively that thimerosal plays a any definitive role in the development of autism. They are each pieces of a huge puzzle. A little piece here a little piece there. I believe that in the end, thimerosal will be shown to play a role for some children. For others, it may be the MMR, for others it could be the mother’s ingesting of fish or whatever the case may be.

    p.s. since when do you care about my answers and or opinions on anything. Why pretend that you do by asking me to answer in my own words…

  9. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 19:48 #

    David wrote:

    “Wade is clear, as is DH and as is María… you never are”.

    – I’m sure that you are correct on that one. It takes all kinds, remember? Accept me for my differences. I won’t even comment on the differences amongst “your side”.

  10. clone3g May 1, 2006 at 20:19 #

    Sue M. on Fair to Medium site:
    Thank you so much for this incredible site. I have only just skimmed the surface of what you have to offer and so far — I love it!
    I have a 3 1/2 year old son who starting slipping away from us after a flu vaccination in the fall of 2003. He had GI troubles before this and some intolerances to gluten/casein but the flu vaccination (thimerosal containing) put him over the edge. It was a struggle but we are on the road to recovery using the biomedical approach. I can’t believe that there are actually doctors out there who believe that *I* am the crazy one for using supplements, diet, etc. to help my son. Imagine that, they inject my child with a known neurotoxin (thimerosal) and I am the crazy person for trying everything in my power to heal his body from these attacks. Brilliant.
    I would also like to mention that I have a 5 year old daughter who was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at 11 months of age and Celiac disease at 20 months of age (incidentally, 2 months after she received a thimerosal containing flu vaccination). I am on a mission to educate people in the type 1 diabetes community about this issue. It is huge and involves more than just the autism community.
    My third child, a boy (16 months), was vaccinated up until 4 months when I finally saw the light. I believe that if we had continued to vaccinate him according to the recommended schedule, he would have been worse off than my older son. What a shame that doctors don’t know about this issue.

  11. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) May 1, 2006 at 20:23 #

    Kev: “Except Sue – you made it about the spelling in your first post to this thread.”

    Sue always does that, and then gets all arsey when her own errors are pointed out. This is a classic sign of her having nothing of any real value to contribute here.

    She’ll never change.

  12. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 20:58 #

    Yes, Clone. I wrote that. Do you find discrepancies with what I have said here as opposed to there? I am happy that you are going through the Autism Media site… maybe you’ll learn something.

  13. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 21:06 #

    David wrote:

    “Sue always does that, and then gets all arsey when her own errors are pointed out”.

    – Well, I’m sure that I have done that from time to time. As for my errors on this thread… Kev pointed out that Diane Simpson used an “alternative” spelling of thimerosal. Ok. He was right. I was wrong (sort of). I believe that she was too ignorant to realize that she was using the alternative spelling. As far as I’m concerned, she didn’t know her ass from her elbow and thought that she was spelling it correctly. Kev wants to believe that she was being cute to impress her friends… who’s wrong here? You decide. As for the other spelling issue. Ok. I’m sure Kev is right on that as well. I’ll check out the list(s) that he posts and/or the directions that he sends to find thimerasol on his original list. It’s not that I don’t believe him, it’s just I’m trying to learn something from him.

  14. Kev May 1, 2006 at 21:17 #

    _”Which ALL were you referring to?”_

    *sigh* this is exactly why its an utter waste of time trying to debate you on anything meaningful Sue – you can’t read whats right in front of you. Let me take you through it.

    1) You called people who used an alternate spelling of thiomersal ignorant citing their spelling as incorrect.

    2) I showed you in 2 examples (Mercola, Dan Burton) that you were wrong.

    3) You then tried exactly the same tactic with yet anotehr variation on the spelling of thiomersal. I cited 3 examples (Moms on A Mission, Convergence and Patrick Leahy) to show you as, _yet again_ being wrong.

    4) You stated I was wrong in those three examples.

    5) I spelled it out to you exactly how to find out for yourself. Proving you wrong once again. These three examples, referring to the second alternate spelling of thiomersal, as stated by you were the ‘all’ I was referring to. Sorry if the English language continues to confuse you.

    _”While your at it show me again step by step exactly how you found it on the original list that you posted…”_

    I gave you the two steps necessary for you to locate any word on any page. I apologise that those two steps seem to be beyond your comprehension. I suggest you consult your browsers Help files to learn how to use the ‘find’ feature.

    _”No, no Kev. I villified them for being ignorant and incompetent in their jobs NOT for their misspellings. I thought that I was clear on that… “_

    This is your first post to this thread:

    _”To watch the Deputy Director of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (National Immunization Program) Diane Simpson misspell thimerosal on a few occassions is frightening (she was spelling it thimerosol). I know the spelling thing again… but it shows ignorance”_

    That was your only cited example of their ‘ignorance’ – their ‘misspelling’. I know this is difficult for you Sue but try and understand. They weren’t wrong. You are. All you’re doing by prolonging this is demonstrating your ability to move from ignorance to wilful ignorance.

    Look up the words you don’t get.

  15. Kev May 1, 2006 at 21:29 #

    _”It was like a friggin’ morgue over there when Kristjan starting analyzing one of the studies. Where were you? I know that you knew about the thread… where was all of your commentary?”_

    You want me to critique points of view I agree with? What the hell…? I’m not interested in Kristjan’s views in this regard – he makes sense. Its _your_ opinion on them I’m interested in. Why the constant prevarication?

    _”I can also attest to the fact that none of these studies conclude conclusively that thimerosal plays a any definitive role in the development of autism.”_

    And yet you have cited these studies as evidence thiomersal _does_ cause autism. Its obvious you have no idea what you’re talking about or believe in. That is little more than pathetic.

    _”They are each pieces of a huge puzzle. A little piece here a little piece there.”_

    Then lets make things even easier for you. Tell me exactly what each of those studies – cited by you on at least one occasion – _does_ show in relation to autism.

    _”p.s. since when do you care about my answers and or opinions on anything. Why pretend that you do by asking me to answer in my own words…”_

    I’ve been asking you since you first started showing up on here to explain your beliefs. The facts are that you read EoH, questioned _nothing in it_ – never even _tried_ to read the sources Kirby cites, never even _tried_ to get the other side of the story that Kirby didn’t bother researching.

    My God Sue – you are so hypocritical its dumbfounding – you had a massive tantrum once because I posted links to something you’d said elsewhere – tell me what else JB’s sordid little conspiracy site is other than publicising other peoples private email – something you and JB himself consider an affront to dignity.

  16. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 21:42 #

    This is getting fun now. I’m trying to keep in mind that this is so unimportant… but it is fun. Here we go.

    I wrote:

    “Neither the list which Kev posted nor Camille’s list show thimerasol as a proper spellling for thimerosal”.

    You responded back to me in response to what I wrote above that:

    “ALL mine do Sue”.

    – I mistakenly thought that you meant the LIST that you posted a few posts above which referenced the “alternate” spellings of thimerosal. That should be all that counts. You should have been more clear if you meant a simple list of random people/organizations who spelled thimerosal WRONG. It’s too bad that they have misspellings on their work. I expect more from the Acting Deputy Director of the NIP and the other CDC nitwits… Their job was to know all about thimerosal inside and outside… Considering it was supposedly “banned” in 1999… Ms. Simpson should have been able to spell it by 2001. No?

  17. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 21:48 #

    Kev wrote:

    “Its your opinion on them I’m interested in”.

    – Right. Where were you when I was giving my opinion as to the Danish studies that Kristjan was posting about? I made a few points which you could have engaged in a discussion about but you didn’t, why not?

    Kev wrote:

    “you had a massive tantrum once because I posted links to something you’d said elsewhere”.

    – Wrong…

  18. clone3g May 1, 2006 at 22:50 #

    Sue M. Yes, Clone. I wrote that. Do you find discrepancies with what I have said here as opposed to there?

    Yes. Specifically here:
    unless Clone can show you where I have implicated thimeeroosol as THE cause of any of my children’s conditions, then please understand that these are Clone’s views projected upon me… not my views. You understand that, correct?

    It wasn’t only on the Fairytale Media site Sue. You’ve said it right here on this blog and elsewhere. You do think thimerosal causes celiac and IDDM, though I think you’ve since watered down your position to “It wouldn’t surprise me” or something. How am I projecting something I don’t believe?

  19. anonimouse May 1, 2006 at 22:55 #

    Sue,

    Stop with your idiotic spelling straw men, please.

    And type 1 diabetes is not caused (in part or whole) by vaccines.

  20. Sue M. May 1, 2006 at 23:32 #

    Clone wrote:

    “You do think thimerosal causes celiac and IDDM”.

    – I believe that it is entirely possible that the immune system attacks by thimerosal could trigger celiac and IDDM. “The spark” so to speak. Or of course it could be some of the viral/other additives that are the main issue. Time will tell.

  21. clone3g May 1, 2006 at 23:53 #

    ‘Attacking’ the immune system should inhibit autoimmune diabetes Sue so Thimerosal should prevent IDDM. K Sparky?

    Your daughter was diagnosed how long after receiving the flu vaccine? Sorry to say Sue but the wheels were set in motion long before that event. Just like autism.

  22. Sue M. May 2, 2006 at 00:01 #

    Mouse wrote:

    “Stop with your idiotic spelling straw men, please.

    And type 1 diabetes is not caused (in part or whole) by vaccines”.

    – Actually, I’m getting pretty tired of the spelling thing too. Hopefully everyone gets it that it’s not really about the spelling 🙂 . Not sure if that’s too much for this group to comprehend. As for the comment about type 1 diabetes not being triggered by vaccines at all. How would you, a mere mouse, know that? Is it because the CDC told you so or did you fall for the wonderful epidemiology experts in Denmark? ?

    http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/Diabetes/q&a.htm#2

    Check out the Denmark study that the CDC cites:

    http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/350/14/1398

    – Does the name Hviid sound familiar to you all? It should. Why do we give a shit about the rates of type 1 diabetes as it relates to vaccines here in the US? Hello. Different vaccines. Different schedules. No thimerosal. Anyone see an issue with that. Obviously, Mouse doesn’t as she seems to be an expert…

  23. Sue M. May 2, 2006 at 00:13 #

    Clone wrote:

    “‘Attacking’ the immune system should inhibit autoimmune diabetes Sue so Thimerosal should prevent IDDM. K Sparky”?

    – Is that your interview for a position at the CDC? You’re hired.

    Clone wrote:

    “Sorry to say Sue but the wheels were set in motion long before that event”.

    – It was actually in regards to the Celiac disease that I mentioned the length of time between the flu vaccination and the diagnosis. That’s ok, though. As for the Type 1 diabetes…. The wheels were set in motion probably right around the time of my rhogam shot or possibly day 1 of her birth via the Hep B vaccination. Of course, with a genetic component… Just like autism. All speculation… but again, wouldn’t doubt it.

  24. Kev May 2, 2006 at 06:08 #

    _”I mistakenly thought that you meant the LIST that you posted a few posts above which referenced the “alternate” spellings of thimerosal. That should be all that counts. You should have been more clear if you meant a simple list of random people/organizations who spelled thimerosal WRONG.”_

    Once again Sue, I apologise that the English language continues to elude you. The list you have now decided I was referring to is in no way comprehensive or total. Again, if you’d researched just a little bit you’d know that.

    _”It’s too bad that they have misspellings on their work.”_

    Once again, for the irretrievably dim – they didn’t Sue. The error is yours.

  25. Ms Clark May 2, 2006 at 06:29 #

    How “informed” was Dan Burton supposed to be when he wrote “thimerasol”? That is the horrific spelling in question isn’t it? It looks like he wrote “thimerasol” the horrifically offensive/stupid spelling (by Sue’s estimation) in 2002. What is wrong with that man, does he not care enough to learn how to spell it “correctly”?

    I guess there aren’t any mercury parent lists for celiac and diabetes parents, otherwise Sue wouldn’t have seemingly endless hours to post inane comments here. She’d be busy over there.

    Was there a skyrocketing rate of new cases of diabetes and celiac in children in California in the 1990s which was followed by a crash down to pre-1990’s levels of new cases starting this year? Sue? Huh? That would be interesting to see.

  26. Ms Clark May 2, 2006 at 06:52 #

    Thimerosol is #5 on the list from pubchem.
    and I got
    “about 15,900” results for “thimerasol.” on Google.
    One of them was from a law firm suing over vaccine thimerosal with “thimerasol” in the URL. Who’s going to trust a lawfirm using an alternative spelling of thiomersal in it web address??

    I just got a package in the mail. I bought some antique merthiolate ointment. 🙂 I put some on the back of my hand, started to feel more autistic immediately. I’m going to take a picture of the tube, it’s got a keen metal lid on it. The ointment hadn’t been used. I don’t think there’s a date on it… it might be past it’s use by date, but the only similar stuff you can buy is real mercurochrome (contains merbromin) from Australia, as far as I can find. I don’t know if merbromin has 47 alternate spellings…

  27. Kev May 2, 2006 at 06:54 #

    _”I put some on the back of my hand, started to feel more autistic immediately. “_

    Once _again_ you cause me to almost spit a mouthful of tea over my monitor ;o)

  28. Dad Of Cameron May 2, 2006 at 07:56 #

    “I put some on the back of my hand, started to feel more autistic immediately.”

    Shall we place an emergency call in to a rescue angel for you?
    We don’t want you tripping and falling into an abyss.

    🙂

  29. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) May 2, 2006 at 09:20 #

    SueM: “Accept me for my differences.”

    That’s not about differences, Sue… it’s about ignorance. Big difference.

  30. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) May 2, 2006 at 09:22 #

    SueM: “I was just trying to suggest that you go out for a role in “Jailbirds” … that could have some pretty good money in it… ”

    Is this like the intelligence tests of Yerkes and his pals in the early 1900s… I’m supposed to know what that is without having seen it or heard of it? Grow up, Sue…. whilst you still have time.

  31. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) May 2, 2006 at 09:24 #

    Anne: “Your point continues to elude me.”

    They elude everyone, Anne… but she doesn’t care… she blames ‘difference’ for that, but it is fdefinitely not an issue of difference… more one of ignorance, really. She probably doesn’t want to be clear in these things since – by doing so – she’d expose her own failures of learning here.

  32. Sue M. May 2, 2006 at 13:36 #

    Ms. Clark wrote:

    “Was there a skyrocketing rate of new cases of diabetes and celiac in children in California in the 1990s which was followed by a crash down to pre-1990’s levels of new cases starting this year? Sue? Huh? That would be interesting to see”.

    – Unfortunately, Ms. Clark (is it possible for you to be more autistic), they did not (and do not) track the rates of type 1 diabetes. This is actually a shame. Due to the fact that type 1 D is one of those diseases that can’t be manipulated by ignorant fools who want to claim “better diagnosis”, it would be interesting to see how much higher the rates were in the late 1990’s as opposed to the early 1980’s (as an example). Every endo that I’ve spoken with (ok it’s only been 2) have agreed with the fact that it has increased dramatically (especially in children under 5). Do some homework, you will be able to see that. As for now, in the 2000’s it’s difficult because it seems the lovely Prevnar came into existence and has most likely messed with the numbers. You know that it has been linked with type 1 D, right?

  33. Sue M. May 2, 2006 at 13:42 #

    As for the spelling issue, if someone is intelligent enough to realize that injecting a known neurotoxin into a baby is a bad idea than they can spell it any way they want to. If, on the other hand, you are an ignorant fool with no clue from the CDC (responsible for the safety of our vaccines) than the least you can do is pretend you have a clue by spelling thimerosal correctly.

  34. Kev May 2, 2006 at 15:15 #

    _”As for the spelling issue, if someone is intelligent enough to realize that injecting a known neurotoxin into a baby is a bad idea than they can spell it any way they want to. If, on the other hand, you are an ignorant fool with no clue from the CDC (responsible for the safety of our vaccines) than the least you can do is pretend you have a clue by spelling thimerosal correctly.”_

    Corrections:

    As for the spelling of thiomersal (which I made an issue of) if someone believes the same as me then its OK to ‘misspell’ it. If they don’t, then they are an ignorant fool.

  35. anonimouse May 2, 2006 at 15:25 #

    Then explain this:

    http://apha.confex.com/apha/133am/techprogram/paper_114093.htm

    The overall hospitalization rate (of type 1 diabetes) increased from 84.5 per 100,000 in 1995 to 103.8 per 100,000 in 2002 (P = 0.065).

    In contrast to this:

    http://www.autisticsociety.org/article319.html

    Four Canadian provinces – Ontario, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and P.E.I – have not used childhood vaccines containing thimerosal since the early 1960s, when they switched to a DPT vaccine that was combined with the killed polio vaccine. (Thimerosal could not be used with the combined shot because it destroyed the efficacy of the polio vaccine.)

    No thimerosal, yet increasing rates of diabetes according to this study.

    Try again.

  36. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) May 2, 2006 at 16:40 #

    SueM: “As for the spelling issue, if someone is intelligent enough to realize that injecting a known neurotoxin into a baby is a bad idea than they can spell it any way they want to.”

    You ever used any proprietory pharmaceuticals, Sue?

  37. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) May 2, 2006 at 16:41 #

    *proprietary

    (before she comes after me with her time-wasting distractive spelling corrections…. was she a wanna-be teacher who failed to get in?)

  38. Sue M. May 2, 2006 at 17:18 #

    Kev wrote:

    “If they don’t, then they are an ignorant fool”.

    – Let’s get my issue correct here. If a person in a position of power whose job it is to ensure safety of vaccines “misspells” a word which he/she should know considering the ramifications…. THEN he/she is ignorant. If you are an average Joe on the street and you misspell thimerosal well then you misspelled it… no big deal. It’s a tricky word.

    The misspelling is ony a SYMBOL of the incompetence.

  39. Sue M. May 2, 2006 at 17:23 #

    Mouse wrote:

    “The overall hospitalization rate (of type 1 diabetes) increased from 84.5 per 100,000 in 1995 to 103.8 per 100,000 in 2002 (P = 0.065)”.

    – What exactly do you THINK that you are trying to show me here? I have a feeling you are falling way short.

    The second study that you supposedly link to was in reference to Deth’s study about mercury/autism (a great one of course). Hopefully, you read it. So why don’t YOU try again, Mickey.

  40. Sue M. May 2, 2006 at 17:27 #

    David wrote:

    “You ever used any proprietory pharmaceuticals, Sue”?

    – Few, but yes. As for the spelling, I would never correct you on misspelling such a non-important word. We all do that. I only correct people’s spelling when it involves poisoning babies brains.

  41. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) May 2, 2006 at 18:10 #

    Just about all pharmaceuticals are poisons…. many having an effect on the nervous system…. think about that.

  42. Sue M. May 2, 2006 at 18:40 #

    David wrote:

    “Just about all pharmaceuticals are poisons…. many having an effect on the nervous system…. think about that”.

    – I’m thinking about it and coming from you it is making me laugh me arse off. I’ve taken very few things over the years, a few courses of antibiotics (does that even count)? It is so funny to hear that from you, though, David. Thanks for the laugh… “many having an effect on the nervous system… think about that”. Hello? Vaccines? I’ve been thinking about for over a year… Any one out there? Is it April Fools Day today?

  43. clone3g May 2, 2006 at 18:58 #

    Sue M. The second study that you supposedly link to was in reference to Deth’s study about mercury/autism (a great one of course). Hopefully, you read it. So why don’t YOU try again,

    Assuming you’ve read it and understand any of it Sue, what is it that you find Grrrrrrrrreat and what does it tell you about autism? FYI, all of the effects Deth describes? Insulin does it better.

    Please stop injecting children with insulin, a known neurotoxin that suppresses the immune system, interferes with methylation, inhibits all sorts of enzymes, dendritic cells, etc.

    The government has known about these effects for years and it was never tested for safety. Ignorant fools!

  44. Kev May 2, 2006 at 19:05 #

    _”Let’s get my issue correct here. If a person in a position of power whose job it is to ensure safety of vaccines “misspells” a word which he/she should know considering the ramifications…. THEN he/she is ignorant. If you are an average Joe on the street and you misspell thimerosal well then you misspelled it… no big deal. It’s a tricky word.”_

    Getting your issue straight is what you’ve been avoiding since you started in on this thread. I really don’t know how many more ways its possible to tell you this: nobody misspelled anything Sue. You _assumed_ they did because _you’d_ never seen those spellings before – that’s _your_ ignorance exposing itself, nobody else’s.

    Seriously – there _have_ be better reasons for your belief they’re ignorant than this infantile spelling issue. Aren’t there?

    _”The second study that you supposedly link to was in reference to Deth’s study about mercury/autism (a great one of course).”_

    And here you are doing it yet again – please explain to us exactly what Deth’s paper had to do with autism and why its a ‘great one’.

    Christ, its like shooting fish in a barrel.

  45. David N. Andrews BA-status, PgCertSpEd (pending) May 2, 2006 at 19:49 #

    SueM: “I’m thinking about it and coming from you it is making me laugh me arse off. I’ve taken very few things over the years, a few courses of antibiotics (does that even count)? It is so funny to hear that from you, though, David. Thanks for the laugh… “many having an effect on the nervous system… think about that”. Hello? Vaccines? I’ve been thinking about for over a year… Any one out there? Is it April Fools Day today? ”

    You haven’t a prayer of adding anything intelligent to the debate, have you? Why funny coming from *me*… or is this yet another thing you’ll refuse to be clear on? *You’re* the one on about injecting toxins, and you say that this statement was funny coming from *me*….. Shitting Jesus, that is *rich*!

    And you say you’ve been thinking about this for a year? Well, where’s your *clear intelligent debate* on it to show that you have been thinking properly about it? Because I have yet to see you contribute any!

    All you do is pull up on spellings, dodge real issues and refuse to clarify when asked to.

    Nothing else.

    Not really very clever, for a *mum-on-a-mission*, are you? I’m glad you aren’t my mum… I’d be truly embarrassed.

    And incidentally, my mum *can* hold a rational debate about things, more so that your seem able to do; and she’s had four strokes!

    Was *she* mercury poisoned, Sue? Eh?

    My mum’s mission: to help her autistic child (not that they mentioned autistic to her when I was a kid; it’s certainly not in my medical notes)… and this she actually did. Not by ranting at people on inane topics… but by trying to figure out ways in which I could learn about what others might think and feel about anything that I might do.

    And your statemate JBJr harps on about my dad and how he should have been fist-fighting me (to, apparently, teach me how not to be a “pussy”…. nice friend you have there, Sue… a real empathic person… *NOT*!)… my dad did far better than that. He taught me how to enjoy learning *the way I naturally learn*! My parents didn’t go round bemoaning nonsensical shite like “my kid’s mercury-poisoned and someone must pay because it’s going to cost a fortune to pay some idiot with a syringe to kill or cure him”. No. They got involved, and met me on my terms. Were they perfect? Of course not. But rather them than you or your state-pal there.

    With you two, I’d have become a perpetually embarrassed neurotic autistic person.

    Nah… with my parents, I got better than with either you or JBJr. And that is something that neither you nor that idiot you seem proud to be associated with can *never* take away.

    And there’s many like me who are equally thankful that we escaped being your (respective) kids.

  46. anonimouse May 2, 2006 at 20:14 #

    Sue,

    If you can’t see the irony in claiming that type 1 diabetes is caused by vaccines yet that same type of diabetes has risen substantially (and is endemic) in a population that hasn’t used thimerosal-containing vaccines for decades, then I don’t know what else I can do to convince you.

    You really are a true believer, aren’t you? Either that or there’s something you’re not admitting to.

  47. Sue M. May 2, 2006 at 22:37 #

    Clone wrote:

    “Assuming you’ve read it and understand any of it Sue, what is it that you find Grrrrrrrrreat and what does it tell you about autism”?

    – You and Kev are especially interested in hearing what I (little old unscientific me) have to say about all of these studies. Why? Why don’t you listen to what the experts who did the studies have to say? You can definately hear Deth at Autism Media, go listen. You guys also had a great opportunity to actually get one of your own (Kathleen Seidel)to have a face to face meeting with Dr. Deth, but you chickened out? Why? You could easily engage Maria (who is clearly heads and shoulders above me on the science behind all this) yet usually when she posts— things get very quiet around here. Why is that?

    Clone wrote:

    “Please stop injecting children with insulin, a known neurotoxin that suppresses the immune system, interferes with methylation, inhibits all sorts of enzymes, dendritic cells, etc”.

    – Cute. That would be considered murder… why would I do that?

  48. anonimouse May 2, 2006 at 22:56 #

    You guys also had a great opportunity to actually get one of your own (Kathleen Seidel)to have a face to face meeting with Dr. Deth, but you chickened out? Why?

    Yeah, I’d be VERY excited about some wacky PhD wanting to come to my house for a face-to-face meeting.

    You don’t get it, do you? These quacks ALL want face-to-face meetings. They think if they get you in a room, turn on the charm and throw around a whole bunch of scientific mumbo-jumbo that you’ll buy into the b.s. That’s why they want public debates – they can make unsubstantiated claims by the bucketful, not get a rebuttal from the other side, and then claim victory. And a month later when it turns out everything they said was nonsense, it won’t matter. It’ll be like the paper who makes a mistake in a front-page story and then turns around and puts the correction in a 6-point font on page 22.

  49. Dad Of Cameron May 2, 2006 at 23:18 #

    “You guys also had a great opportunity to actually get one of your own (Kathleen Seidel)to have a face to face meeting with Dr. Deth, but you chickened out? Why?

    Besidez the lack of nesessuty for a face to face meeting (e-mail is more than appropri8), Deth himself acnolledged a currint lack of siuntifec prufe of the ulleged Themirsolal-autism cunekshun wen he sez,

    “However, I would like to make a virtual wager that within the next 18-24 months scientific evidence will make the thimerosal-autism link a near certainty.”

    That inducates that the evidunce ain’t heer tooday, and that he iz awhere that the speculashun iz not enyware neer certun tooday. That duzint meen it wont be in 18-24 munths, we will haf to wate and see.

  50. Sue M. May 2, 2006 at 23:19 #

    Mouse wrote:

    “Yeah, I’d be VERY excited about some wacky PhD wanting to come to my house for a face-to-face meeting”.

    – Well, if I was interested in the topic AND Dr. Deth was a respected researcher who was published peer-reviewed science about the topic, I personally would have asked him if I could meet him at his workplace or in a neutral location or whatever. Not too difficult. I suppose Kathleen didn’t really have an interest in hearing what he had to say. Which is fine. Her perogative. Don’t blame it on her being scared or threatened or whatever… I have been around the block long enough to know that if Kathleen Seidel had felt “threatened” she would have blogged all about… not only would she have blogged all about it… she would have posted the transcript of “threatening conversation”. Did you check out his talk on Autism Media? He didn’t seem all that wacky to me… feel free to listen to it and point out the wackiness.

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