After Jenny and Oprah

23 Sep

And so, this was the week that the anti-vaccine/autism hypothesis got its first real airing in a public arena. Jenny McCarthy went on US TV and told her audience that her son was her science (quite possibly _the_ silliest thing on the show since Tom Cruise’s couch/brain malfunction).

I’m going to level with you here. I don’t really care too much about Jenny McCarthy spouting on about the evils of vaccines. She’s not the first and she won’t be the last. Despite the raptures the anti-vaccination people are having over her appearance she wasn’t on Oprah because of her vaccine ideas.

This is what bothers me: she was on Oprah because she was famous. It scares the _shit_ out of me that we can only apparently have a conversation about something after a celeb has let the light of their countenance shine down upon it.

The UK is just as ridiculous about this whole thing as the US. Its got to a stage whereby the subject under discussion doesn’t even seem to really matter to Joe Public – what seems to matter is that there’s a famous face pontificating on a subject that, in all honesty, they’ve probably only recently begun to get a firm grasp on themselves.

To put it another way, the Oprah show wasn’t about autism. It was about Jenny McCarthy. It was to sell copies of her book. Her appearance on People magazine is to increase book sales. Her upcoming appearance on Larry King is to increase book sales. None of it is about _autism_ . None of this will help the autism community. Even that subsection of the autism community who are anti-vaccine are kidding themselves if they think that after the dust settles on Jenny McCarthy’s book she will be around to lead them in their fight. Until its time for the sequel of course.

Is the autism community really so shallow that we are going into raptures because a celeb is speaking about a subject that vast majority of us could speak much more accurately and eloquently about? It seems some of us are.

In the meantime, whilst Jenny McCarthy is being lucratively controversial on Oprah, the vast majority of autistic kids are still not getting the right kind of educational placement. Whilst Jenny McCarthy’s Media Clean Up Crew are attempting hoover away every mention of her Indigo Children beliefs from the web lest they affect book sales, autistic adults are still struggling to get into appropriate work and living accommodations.

I would urge autism parents to spend the ten quid they were going to spend on Jenny McCarthy’s book on something that might actually help autistic people instead of helping line the pockets of Jenny McCarthy.

192 Responses to “After Jenny and Oprah”

  1. Joy September 26, 2007 at 16:25 #

    While I respect everyones opinion and see some of the points of view I have to say that I applaud JM for getting the word out there. Anything that encourages autism awareness is a good thing. Parents have to decide on a case by case basis about diets, vaccines, supplements, etc but I value knowing any other parent’s experiences, celebrity or not.

  2. HN September 26, 2007 at 16:52 #

    That is all fine and dandy, Joy… but we really wish the “word” was more accurate.

    Unfortunately part of that “word” some people are coming away with is that vaccines cause autism, that very expensive therapies are worth more than the educational programs many of us have worked very hard to get from the schools under IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act).

    Why couldn’t that kind of publicity have been there for some much better (and accurate) books like _Not Even Wrong, Adventures in Autism_ by Paul Collins?

  3. Matt September 26, 2007 at 16:52 #

    If that is indeed the advice that the NIMH are giving out then I really think they need to think again.


    the NIMH website has two sets of questions under treatment. The first, as quoted above by Tammie, are quotes of the Autism Society of America guidelines.

    The NIMH recommendations are fairly clearly discussing placements in “programs” not “treatments”

    The discussion of the Diet is under “Dietary and other Interventions”. that section starts with:

    To be accepted as a proven treatment, the treatment should undergo clinical trials, preferably randomized, double-blind trials, that would allow for a comparison between treatment and no treatment. Following are some of the interventions that have been reported to have been helpful to some children but whose efficacy or safety has not been proven.

  4. Joy September 26, 2007 at 16:55 #

    I didn’t get that at all from what she said. She barely mentioned vaccines in anything I saw or read. If that’s all that you picked up out of everything that’s been said than you were hearing something different then me. I also think she was talking about these other treatments in addition to educational interventions, not excluding educational interventions.

  5. HN September 26, 2007 at 17:22 #

    Perhaps YOU did not get that from what she said, but others seem to get that impression (it also depends on which publicity venue you happened to catch her flouting her book):

    Though my point is that there are much much better books to read. Repeat of recommended books. plus some others (some fiction, some memoirs, some on other disabilities):

    _Not Even Wrong_ by Paul Collins
    _The Curious Incident of the Dog at Night Time_ by Mark Haddon
    _Speed of Dark_ by Elizabeth Moon
    _Train Go Sorry_ by Leah Cohen Hager
    _Deaf Like Me_ by the Spradley brothers
    _Making Peace with Autism_ by Susan Senator
    _The Silent Boy_ by Lois Lowry
    _Summer of the Swans_ by Betsy Byars

    Autism Hub blogger Mike Stanton has written a book _Learning to Live with High Functioning Autism_, but I have not been able to find it locally (I don’t think it made it to this side of the pond).

  6. Joy September 26, 2007 at 17:25 #

    Thank you for the list of books. I will definitely check these out.

  7. Cher Bartlett September 26, 2007 at 18:56 #

    I am a medical intuitive and work with autistic children and other people who have neurological issues, including my own son who was diagnosed with sensory integration disorder at the age of 4. He is now a high functioning highschool freshmen who benefited enormously from alternative treatments. Based on years of work, it is very clear to me that the pathogens in the vaccines are a major factor in all neurological issues. A newborn with a newborn immune system cannot handle the pathogen load inflicted upon them. As with all manifestations of dis-ease, there is a physical, medical, emotional and spiritual component. I encourage all of you to become advocates for your children and your own health as well.
    The medical model is antiquated and the pioneers who save these kids, one at a time, will be part of a new and more rational approach to living well.

  8. Kev September 26, 2007 at 19:04 #

    _”Based on years of work, it is very clear to me that the pathogens in the vaccines are a major factor in all neurological issues.”_

    What work is that Cher? Please point me to the published science.

    _”The medical model is antiquated and the pioneers who save these kids, one at a time, will be part of a new and more rational approach to living well.”_

    Pioneers? I prefer to think of them as what they are – child-experimenters.

  9. HN September 26, 2007 at 19:10 #

    Cher, what is a medical “intuitive”? What is your training?

    And what real evidence and documentation do you have to support the statement: “Based on years of work, it is very clear to me that the pathogens in the vaccines are a major factor in all neurological issues. A newborn with a newborn immune system cannot handle the pathogen load inflicted upon them.”

    Give us something more than anecdotal observations. Something on the order of this (take note of the list of over 60 references at the bottom):

    Also answer this question: Which is more dangerous and why, the MMR vaccine, measles or mumps? Be sure to include verifiable references.

  10. Joseph September 26, 2007 at 19:15 #

    Cher: You must mean ‘science-based model’ or ‘evidence-based model’. The term ‘medical model’ refers to the medical model of disability, which is just one of the ways people view disability. Another model is the ‘social model’. (Completely different discussion.)

    It is a ridiculous and pathetic idea to replace the evidence-based model with armchair-expertise, ad-hoc observations, testimonials and willi-nilly child experimentation. Why in the world would anyone think this is a good thing?

  11. Susan September 26, 2007 at 19:28 #

    I find it interesting that whenever Oprah does a show on autism nothing is ever said about Fragile X Syndrome. If your child has a chromosome disorder that causes autism I don’t think any diet is going to “cure” your child. I’m happy for Jenny’s son that he has improved but I don’t believe that he is healed or cured.

  12. Kelly S September 26, 2007 at 19:37 #

    From Wikipedia –

    Medical Intuitive

    “In alternative medicine, a Medical Intuitive is a person who allegedly uses their intuition to find the cause of a physical or emotional condition. Many medical intuitives also claim to heal illness using “intuitive energies”, although healing is not necessarily within the scope of practice for all Medical Intuitives.”

    Also, it should be well noted by folks here:

    “There are no peer-reviewed scientific studies which support the claims of medical intuitives. Intuitives would counter that, as a direct perception of truth independent of any reasoning process (i.e., epistemology of individual experience), medical intuition is not a science and cannot be tested scientifically. Further, some medical intuitives and other alternative medicine practitioners consider the reductionist nature of empirical scientific research to be hostile toward (while systematically suppressing) holistic and innovative challenges to conventional medicine, and incapable of detecting universal truths.”

    In other words, “medical intuitiveness” (sheesh, that’s a mouthful) is about as accurate as palm reading or horoscope.

  13. tammie September 26, 2007 at 20:10 #

    It’s funny or sad I’m not sure which yet but simply giving a list of books to read even listing fiction books as better reference I have to wonder just like the medical field and the ones way out there in left field crying no vaccines for anyone – just what is the agenda?

    So far the websites and so called authorities put forth here in these posts have one thing in common – there is no certain right or wrong answer, if I call it a treatment the argument is “who wants to be treated” if it is called a cure the arguement is no cure is needed.

    Really it is absolute nonsense and when I use the site that is “recommended” here and see that even they talk of parents being an active role be it treatment or programs and run down the list of diet and supplements and behavioral teachings it is clear – there is no clear answer from either side.

    So folks are back at zero and yeah go ahead call it “experimenting” I’d rather do that than nothing or take every doctor at their word as if they are God – they make mistakes – the get it wrong sometimes.

    Neither side has it right.

  14. Cher September 26, 2007 at 20:26 #

    I have no agenda, and as a medical intuitive, I do enjoy my clients who are MD’s, and appreciate their openness to expanded possibilities. Even medicine is at best an evolving body of work. I never said I was anti-vaccine….just an advocate for waiting for their little brains and immune systems to develop before we inject them with potentially harmful cocktails.
    I remember being told not to eat canned tuna when I was pregnant because of the mercury levels, yet hours after my son’s entrance into the world, he was injected with themerisol laced vaccines. Yes, there are mixed messages everywhere. In my experience, I have found that glutathione levels are very low with the kids who seem to be the most affected, and that is why diet does help, because the low glutathine levels seems to encourage yeast overgrowth. When I detoxified the mercury out of my son, he seemed to have the greatest improvement. Cranial Sacral therapy was also a godsend. Many blessings to all of you.

  15. Jessica Hembree September 26, 2007 at 20:30 #

    At least someone in the celeb community is out there spreading awarness. True, the show didn’t really help me either, but atleast it brought some attention to the issue.

  16. Sullivan September 26, 2007 at 20:53 #

    At least someone in the celeb community is out there spreading awarness. True, the show didn’t really help me either, but atleast it brought some attention to the issue.

    I find it odd that everyone seems to forget the celebrity based awareness campaign of Autism Speaks. Bill Cosby, Toni Braxton (autism mom).

    Celebrities bring “awareness” to a subject like autism. The same psychology makes that awareness short lived.

  17. HN September 26, 2007 at 21:23 #

    Sullivan said “Celebrities bring “awareness” to a subject like autism. The same psychology makes that awareness short lived.”

    Just like Suzanne Somers and her “bio-identical” hormone book. That came and went (which is fortunate, in that it was promoting some questionable treatments!).

    Cher said “Cranial Sacral therapy was also a godsend. “… oh, yeah… like a light head massage is going to rearrange neurons in the brain!

    You seem to have missed actually posting verifiable evidence for your claims.

  18. Cher September 26, 2007 at 21:41 #

    HN–what are you so afraid of? That someone could actually heal without the sanction of the “proven”? CS therapy was a god send— and my MD husband and the father of that little boy was the first to say so….
    how sad are you.

  19. Kev September 26, 2007 at 21:53 #

    Cher – you are talking total rubbish. Dangerous rubbish. I would like to know what you’re _references_ are for your beliefs about ‘healing’ and ‘dangerous cocktails’, not your personal opinions, which are, when we get right down to it, utterly meaningless without any _data_ to support them.

    You want to cure autism right? For as many autistic kids as you can right? The best and fastest way to do that is to design a decent study or studies that will support your viewpoint. You’d also probably win a Nobel prize. What’s stopping you?

  20. Kev September 26, 2007 at 21:58 #

    _”So folks are back at zero and yeah go ahead call it “experimenting” I’d rather do that than nothing or take every doctor at their word as if they are God – they make mistakes – the get it wrong sometimes.”_

    And who exactly advocates doing nothing? Who says you should take every doctor at their word? Who has suggested doctors don’t mistakes?

    If a scientist (a proper one, not a DAN! quack) wants to perform a study that involves kids s/he has to go through a lot of hurdles including an IRB (an institutional review board) to decide if the study is designed well enough to avoid as much danger as possible to the participants.

    These child-experimenters do not. This is how the autism/anti-vax community has the blood of one dead child and numerous seriously injured ones on its hands. They go ahead and try out any old shit they feel like. And you think that’s ‘better than nothing’? I don’t. I’d much rather have an autistic daughter than a dead or hospitalised daughter.

  21. Peggy September 26, 2007 at 22:03 #

    My brother, who is 2 years older than me, had tourette syndrome. I am now genuinely scared to subject any future children I might have, to vaccinations, due to widespread (albeit unproven) links to autism – since tourettes is now also linked to autism. I applaud Jenny for trying to get public awareness started, as most people do not have the platform in which to do that. Like it or not – Jenny’s got a voice that many of us wish we had. And many other people who could do something about it, are not concerned enough to try. Research needs to be done, vaccinations need to be altered until proven safe in every way, and perhaps revised vaccination schedules need to be made. We all have a moral obligation to protect children as a whole, to make it a safe place for them to live healthfully, and to grow normally. If we, as a society, neglect to push for the research of the causes of these disorders, and for the reform of these required vaccinations, as they relate to causing harm to helpless children, their impairments continue to be due to our neglects. Denial never helped anyone.

  22. tammie September 26, 2007 at 22:27 #

    Kev we probably arent to off on seeing eye to eye – I’m not saying DAN’s are the answer and I agree – to what extent is experimentation right or wrong. It is just that some of these post get so rightous in their slamming any thoughts of what could be going on.

    I’m just as leary about a scientist that you’d probably deem worthy – that’s just me.

    On a side note I see that NBC has piece coming up on the evening news about mecury and vaccines.

  23. HN September 26, 2007 at 22:30 #

    Peggy (who admitted there is no proven link between autism and vaccines) continues to say “Research needs to be done, vaccinations need to be altered until proven safe in every way, and perhaps revised vaccination schedules need to be made.”

    The research HAS been done… over, and over and over again. There is not any real evidence.

    Now tourettes is horrible? Yikes, don’t tell that to the surgeon Oliver Sacks wrote about in _An Anthropologist on Mars_ !

    (yeah, Tammie is dismayed that I keep referring folks to better books … but I still think one should not waste their time with bad books written by celebrities)

  24. HN September 26, 2007 at 22:35 #

    Cher said “HN—what are you so afraid of? ”

    Presently, the only thing I am afraid of is reading something like you wrote while drinking coffee. I am afraid that what damage I can cause to my laptop while bursting out laughing with a mouthful of liquid!

    Actually, cranial sacral therapy (which essentially a homeopathic head massage) has been investigated and was found not worth it:

  25. Peggy September 26, 2007 at 22:40 #

    To HN:
    Yes, I can most assuredly attest to the fact that tourrettes is horrible. My brother had uncontrollable twitching, and fits of rage that our entire family had to deal with. My parents had to feel guilty because they didn’t know how to help him, and my sister and I took a total backseat to his problem, since it demanded most of our parents’ attention. As much pain as that caused us all, my brother was still the one who got the short end of the stick. Though he is very intelligent, he’s gone through a living hell in growing up. Makes it difficult to resent him for being the “problem child”. He’s much better now that he’s an adult and has two boys of his own. There are just too many testimonials that people have gone through with their children taking a “severe turn for the worse” after being subjected to synthetic viruses – sometimes three viruses at a time – when these viruses attack their bodies’ immune systems. Do you work for Merck?

  26. Mary September 26, 2007 at 22:45 #

    I am a mom with a son that has autism…NOT AN AUTISTIC CHILD!!!!! How would some of you folk like it if I descibed your child as the stupid child, or the black child,etc. Autism does NOT describe my son. I think Jenny McCarthy was on Oprah to promote her book. Yeah…we have all be there, us parents with kids with autism. It is a struggle, day in and out! She didn’t say much. Her Counterpart, the other woman on the show, much smater and much more intellegent!

  27. Cher September 26, 2007 at 22:53 #

    HN–I’m glad I could contibute to your heart health with a good laugh…
    This is why studies are usually so inconsequential–
    like movie reviews…
    After one “not worth it” CS session, my son’s speech was easily 100% better. The CS therapy does support an increase in CS fluid…. never a bad things when your brain is dysfunctional. Mercury is a known neurotoxin,
    you don’t have to be rocket scientist to know that. And, there are no safe levels considered for that heavy metal.
    You’ll be happy to hear about the study that came out a few weeks ago that said that people who had gotten three flu vaccines three years in a row had a significant increase in alzeimers. Those too are loaded with neurotoxins– themerisol and other pathogens like formaldahyde and aborted fetal tissue… If I am dangerous, then you are deadly.

  28. Matt September 26, 2007 at 23:02 #

    Peggy: Do you work for Merck?

    You are kindly invited to look through the “Canards”. There is a link on the top of the page. #1 deals with the question, “Are you a Pharma Shill”.

    People who buy into the idea that “Big Pharma” is setting up blogs and posting into forums to protect themselves tend to lose credibility.

    There are just too many testimonials that people have gone through with their children taking a “severe turn for the worse” after being subjected to synthetic viruses – sometimes three viruses at a time – when these viruses attack their bodies’ immune systems.

    I will not touch the idea of a “synthetic virus” other than to point out I assume you mean a vaccine strain virus (which is a natural virus).

    The problem is exactly as you explain: there are too many testimonials. There are also too few facts.

    Some people are seriously harmed by vaccines. Any effort that can be done to reduce that is a good thing. However, people are also seriously harmed by diseases that can be prevented by vaccines. Anything done to prevent that is also a good thing.

  29. Matt September 26, 2007 at 23:05 #


    we got over 130 responses before the phrase “known neurotoxin” was used. Pretty good, I think.

    The CS therapy does support an increase in CS fluid…. never a bad things when your brain is dysfunctional.

    first, do you have any studies to support the first part.

    Second, would you say the second part if this were a hydrocephalus discussion?

  30. Peggy September 26, 2007 at 23:23 #


    You are absolutely right. I don’t claim to be a scientist or even all that knowledgeable about how multi-viruses forced into an infant’s body affects them. Especially since every child is in a different state of health and all have DNA differences. Don’t know why it seems to hurt some, and not others. That is the question that needs to be answered, though. I just know that it does “seem” to have a grave affect, from reading stories that parents of these unfortunate babies have posted on the internet. Sad, isn’t it, that there isn’t more awareness about this issue, from a scientific vantage point, out there? I am sure that there is a lot of data on vaccines, most of which is derived from pharmaceutical companies. They’re usually the ones that submit the data. I am grateful for conventional medicine – even vaccines – thank God that we have those things. It’s just that history has proven that when it comes to money & dangerous drugs, things tend to be overlooked at times. Vaccinations just so happen to be something that MOST people now get, so there’s a LOT of money going out to the drug companies for these required shots. They’re not always about just “helping people” though they do help people too, and I’d like to think that they are not completely in it for the reason of greed. It’s not about “Big Pharma” being evil – It’s about the root of all evil – greed. That applies to everyone. They just so happen to be people who are in an industry that manufactures life altering products. Of course, there’s a HUGE responsibility that goes along with that. To prove that their own drugs causes major problems would be shooting themselves in the foot, so to speak. Probably, the government needs to step in and put more focus on DISPROVING that the 3-in-1 vaccinations are dangerous.

  31. Cher September 26, 2007 at 23:27 #

    Even though I have no apparant credibility, I will tell you that I am working on an interesting variable–that women whose children seem to be hit the hardest, happen to themselves have a super high mercury load from dental amalgams, flu vaccines…and other heavy metals like aluminum…

  32. tammie September 26, 2007 at 23:28 #

    Hn, not better books FICTION books.

    Well the nbc news media didn’t do any better at explaining one side or the other.

    Had one woman from the CDC say that it’s been looked at and no nothing there followed by another woman who clearly feels mercury is the complete cause.

    Which leaves the rest of us who are somewhere in the middle still asking questions.

  33. Ms.Clark September 26, 2007 at 23:39 #

    “…since tourettes is now also linked to autism.”

    I used to think that was true. But I asked one of the world’s experts on Tourette if it was so that Asperger’s/ASD was found more commonly in Tourette’s than in the non-Tourette folks. He said, from what he has seen it’ is possible to have Tourette and AS, but that it’s at no higher rate than you would expect randomly, as in 1 in 150 or so Tourette people also have and ASD.

    Him being a world expert, I decided to take his word for it until someone did a real study of Tourette and Autism.

    Most Tourette people are totally normal socially except for the social burden of having to hide tics or dealing with rejection when they can’t hide them.

    If there was a big overlap between ASD and Tourette (which kids do grow out of and usually isn’t apparent until like 7 years of age) people would have noticed it a long time ago.

    David Kirby is on Huffpoof having raptures over the idea that thimerosal could cause Tourette, look out TS community here comes the man with the anti-CDC vendetta, he’s going to tell you that you fell into the abyss/hell of TS because of thimerosal. For some reason I think the TS community is going to ignore him.

  34. HN September 27, 2007 at 01:03 #

    Tammie wrote “Hn, not better books FICTION books.”

    _Not Even Wrong_ by Paul Collins in non fiction.

    As is the book by Susan Senator, and the one by Oliver Sacks.

    The fiction books have a better handle on autism reality than a ghost authored book by a “celebrity”. I gave a list of books that time would be better spent on than one flogged on daytime talk shows.

    I advised the fiction book by Elizabeth Moon (whose son is autistic) because it is a cautionary tale about “curing” autism. I would suggest you read it and take not of its ending before crying “cure, cure, cure” again.

  35. HN September 27, 2007 at 01:11 #

    Cher said “and other heavy metals like aluminum…”

    Um, what planet is aluminum considered a “heavy” metal?

    Did you download and read this:

    Please tell us which papers are available to refute its finding?

    By the way, my son went to no speech at age three to speaking, and is now attending community college with just plain ol’ speech therapy.

  36. tammie September 27, 2007 at 01:44 #

    Hn I’ve never once shouted cure, cure, cure.

    Reread my posts and you’ll see I am not pushing one way to cure something. Not once have I said that.

    And thats great the info about your child but what does that mean?

    That was your experience, my experience has been that at the age 2 in the late 70’s my brother had a seizure shortly after his vaccine and yes sometimes seizures occur for no reason and then later in his teens he became schizophrenic – was it the vaccine? Was he predisposed to having it even if he had no shot or no seizure? I don’t know and I may never know.

  37. tammie September 27, 2007 at 01:48 #

    This is my last post here at this site.

    Let me just say I am glad a site like this is here and I don’t completely agree with those who have bashed JM but I understand a little better why some are upset with JM.

  38. paul September 27, 2007 at 05:47 #

    I watched the JM interview on Larry King this evening. I, as many of you had stated, agree with JM. I don’t care that she is promoting a book or trying to make money to pay off her bills for therapy’s and things that will help her son “recover” as she stated, from the affects of Autism.
    It’s amazing how people only hear what they want to hear and don’t “listen” to everything that is said.
    She stated quite a few times that her son is “recovering” from Autism, but will never full recover from it. Sounded like she said that he will always be a child with Autism to me, but I heard her as well as listened too.
    I also think that she is missing something. From the seizures her child is experiencing and a few other things, her child my have Fragile X syndrome.
    I am a father of a child with Autism. He was diagnosed at the age of 3 and is now 9 years old. At the age of 4 1/2, my wife and I put him on a wheat free/gluten free diet. Within three days, our son went from running full speed back and fourth across the house, no eye contact and acting like he was totally spaced out, to being calm, no more running, trying to make eye contact and just almost a completely different person. He was actually focusing at school, trying to play with other kids and started to make an effort with everything. Within a month, he was potty trained. FINALLY. And this was not without trying for a few years. We tried to potty train him in every which way. He just did not care. But now he finally did! A change in his diet did this! Does this mean that he is recovering from Autism? I don’t care about that. All I care about is that he changed for the better from something SO simple. His teacher and therapists at his pre-school called us within days of changing his diet and they inquired what type of medication we had our son on. We told them what we did and they were elated and surprised!
    When he eats cake or a cupcake from school when somebody has a birthday party, we can sure tell. It’s like somebody gave him Crack Cocaine or something, because he is totally out of control for 6 hours afterwards. So, no more wheat or gluten for our son and all of his teachers know the price of giving it to him! They have to deal with him being out of control, knowing that they caused it from not paying attention to his diet.
    Now, for the vaccines theory: I am for vaccination, but I totally agree with JM stance on this. If anyone has done any research on this fact, one would see direct effect.
    The organic based mercury compound, thimerosal, can not be safely tested anywhere. If you put of drop of this chemical on your skin, it kills it. If you put a drop of it on your tongue, it WILL kill you.
    This is MUCH different than the mercury that is in thermometers. That has a metallic compound and the body naturally rejects it.
    I DO know that our son was starting to talk at age 1 ½. He was starting to say “Daddy UP” “I Love Mommy” and other phrases like that. ALWAYS had eye contact too! THREE days after his vaccination, everything stopped! We were freaking out. Our son’s pediatrician didn’t have a clue and said that he was speech delayed and that kids sometimes do this. At the time we knew this was BS. Did we vaccinate him ever again after that? NOPE! And he’s healthier than most kids at his school, has never had an ear infection and rarely ever gets sick, unless he eats something with wheat or gluten in it!!
    I don’t need a drug company or anyone else to tell me that the vaccine did not cause this, as THOUSANDS of other mothers and fathers can attest too. The drug companies experimented on our children for a profit. GEE! THANKS! And you chastise JM for speaking out against them? Where’s your outrage against Big Pharma? I think it’s displaced.
    Why did we increase the dosage of vaccinations from 10 to 32 during the late 80’s and early 90’s? Was there an epidemic going on that I was not aware of? Not from the research that I have done! And I grew up during the era.
    JM was just asking that the CDC clean up the vaccines and change the schedule of how much is given and when. Is this is BAD thing for anyone to ask?
    JM stated that she will go to Capitol Hill and make her case. IF she does, will everyone still chastise her for something else?
    She’s a mother doing what any mother would in her position. And if her and many other mothers AND fathers like her can make a difference in REDUCING the rate of children with Autism, the more power to them.
    I am a member of our local Autism chapter, as I am also an Advocate. I have worked closely with the school district in addressing the needs of children with Autism and help parents through the IEP process.
    Do I have this time to spend helping others? Not really, but I do what I can, when I am not playing with my son, helping him with his home work and taking him to watch and ride trains!!! While working 60 hours a week to pay for all of his therapies and specialists.
    I have total respect for any parent of a child with a special need that does anything reasonable and safe to help their child be as happy as possible and become the best person that his/her child could ever be.
    JM has a right to do what she can. What would you do if you were somebody in her position and had the means that she has? I know I would probably be doing the same.

  39. Peggy September 27, 2007 at 13:49 #

    FYI – This article is on FOXNEWS.COM today –,2933,298224,00.html

  40. Peggy September 27, 2007 at 14:27 #

    Well, at least more public awareness is being created, probably because of Jenny’s book & TV appearances. Mercury was proven, according to this article, to cause tics in boys. They are not sure if there is any relation to autism or not. It also states that mercury has not been in vaccines since 2001. I was told that you still have to request the vaccines w/out the thimerosal in them.

  41. Sullivan September 27, 2007 at 14:33 #


    you need to reread the article and the actual paper. Isles did a great discussion of this:

  42. Sullivan September 27, 2007 at 14:39 #

    It’s amazing how people only hear what they want to hear and don’t “listen” to everything that is said.
    She stated quite a few times that her son is “recovering” from Autism, but will never full recover from it. Sounded like she said that he will always be a child with Autism to me, but I heard her as well as listened too.

    From the transcript:

    KING: Are you saying he’s not autistic anymore?

    MCCARTHY: That’s right.

    She also said,
    But he’s no longer autistic.

    It does seem like people heard what they wanted to.

  43. Sullivan September 27, 2007 at 14:40 #

    Sorry, messed up my blockquotes…

  44. rhorho September 27, 2007 at 14:53 #

    Your cynicism is only an automatic response to protect everything you’ve ever learned, and what government agencies want and need us to believe. Yes, there may be epidemics if we all stop vaccinating. However, some children may react negatively to the vaccines and they and their families are left to deal. At least open your mind that there may be manageable reasons and ways to manage the disease besides what modern medicine preaches. I have heard MANY mothers state that symptoms appear after the MMR. Maybe a different vaccination scehdule, not so much at once and so young could be the answer?
    And WHat if your kid improved to the extent Jenny’s has thru diet and other “new age” therapies? Wouldn’t you try it?
    If data was collected on autistic children as to whether they had been vaccinated and with what we may get an answer to this question. But the Drs. dont want to know. Just open your mind!

  45. Ruth September 27, 2007 at 15:11 #


    I prefer to deal with reality. The fact is that without Rhogam, 2 of my 3 kids would not have lived to be autistic or not. The new age treatments work NO BETTER than placebo. If many of us have seen great improvement in our kids without the new age crap, would you accept that as proof?

    I wonder if you would so calmly accept epidemics coming back if you had to watch a child cough to death? The very success of vaccines allows ignorant fools to ignore reality.

  46. Peggy September 27, 2007 at 15:15 #

    Okay, Sullivan – Here’s a question that needs to be concluded:

    Could this study suggest that if the mother’s mercury level is higher while pregnant, the shots send the kids over the edge? Because this is what the FOXNEWS.COM,2933,298224,00.html
    article says….

    “On balance, researchers did not find a consistent pattern between increasing thimerosal exposure and the risk of these problems. However, they said one finding merited further study: Boys exposed to higher mercury levels seemed to have more tic problems — a link seen in previous research.

  47. Gonzo September 27, 2007 at 15:18 #

    My mind is open. But it’s also realistic and doesn’t react irrationally on emotion.

    But I’m not going to run out and put an IV into my kid to “cleanse the toxins” or put him on a diet to “remove the plaque that casein leaves on the brain” as I’ve seen mentioned around the Internet.

    Ask yourself this – before you found out that your kid was autistic, would you have done this stuff to them? Would you even subject yourself to these “treatments”? But now that they have been diagnosed, you would? What changed? Desperation?

    Yes. Desperation makes us do stupid things. It happens every day.

  48. HN September 27, 2007 at 15:21 #

    rhoho said “Just open your mind!”

    I am willing to look at real evidence. My mind is open to actual documented evidence.

    Is yours?

    Do you care or know about the dozens of studies done in several countries that show no association between vaccines and autism?

    Do you care or know that the doctor who pointed a finger at the MMR vaccine was paid by a lawyer to do that “research” on children that were clients of the lawyer… and that the doctor used faulty data?

    Why is it that the ONE paper blaming MMR for autism and gastrointestinal problem that used only 12 children, and was a product of fraud has more validity than all the studies done in half a dozen countries using several hundred thousand children?

    Is you mind open enough to accept reality?

    Do you know or care that the actual diseases are making a comeback and causing more disabilites and sometimes death? Just last summer four people became deaf and several other suffered meningitis and encephalitis due to an outbreak of mumps:

    Do you care or know that several studies have been done on special diets, and some work and some don’t… but it has been done?

    In one practice near London there have been several dozen cases of measles, with TEN children being admitted to the hospital. From personal experience I know that a kid in a hospital for a week costs about the same as 5000 MMR vaccines (baby spend 1 week in hospital, it was about $10000 a bit over 19 years ago)… Is you mind open enough to realize that disease PREVENTION may be cheaper and does not provide more income for “Big Pharma”?

    How about you open your mind to the scientific method of looking at ALL the data, cross checking the evidence and looking history?

    Or are you going to be closed minded and claim it is all a conspiracy of several countries and the pharmaceutical companies?

  49. Sullivan September 27, 2007 at 15:44 #


    checking the actual study,

    Increasing exposure to mercury was associated with a greater likelihood of tics in one HMO population and language delay in another; in the third HMO, no significant associations were found.

    So, in one of three groups there was possibly an increased number of tics.

    I would agree with the statement in the paper:

    The replication of the findings regarding tics suggests the potential need for further studies.

    But also,

    The overall pattern of results suggests that the significant associations may have been chance findings stemming from the large number of statistical tests that we performed.

    If you work on a 95% confidence level and test 42 things, you can expect 2 to show “statistically significant” results.

  50. Peggy September 27, 2007 at 15:51 #

    HN, do you know where a person could find information on studies done to prove what does cause these disorders? Because it seems like most of the ones mentioned “rule out” the fact that vaccines do long term harm (besides causing death) to infants. However, variables can be left out of the scenerio, such as prenatal mercury exposure in combination with the vaccines. Do you know if they have factored this into their “disproving” studies? I think most people do have an open mind about it, they just want the situation of rising incidents of these disorders to be resolved, & for conclusions to made as to the “why’s” — not just the “why nots” !!! This is what makes people suspicious of the powers that be….the fact that not everything that CAN BE DONE to find this out, IS being done!

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