Contrary to the press reports and the frenzied claims of Jenny McCarthy of rally participants numbering between 8 to 10,000 it seems according to police who accompanied the rally that there were between 500 – 1,000 participants. I cannot source that quote, for which I am sorry. I hope to be able to source it very soon but where I got it from is not available just yet.
The above photo was taken at 09:15. The below photo was taken at the end of the rally.
It certainly doesn’t seem to be a very imposing crowd.
People who watched the start of the rally via webcams (my ISP decided to go down today of all days) say that a very loose straggly crowd walking very slowly took about 20 mins to pass a fixed point.
Someone else attending the rally said (again, in confidence):
There were about 500 people at the rally today, about half of whom were children. The press conference lasted for about an hour and a half. The speakers were, in order: Dr. Jay Gordon, Boyd Haley, Dr. Jerry Kartzinel, RFK Jr., Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy. RFK Jr. spoke at length about the science disproving a link between vaccines and autism. He said that all that science is paid for by the pharmaceutical industry and that top vaccine advocates such as Renee Jenkins and Paul Offit are in the pockets of these companies.
Other notables in the crowd included JB Handley, Scott and Laura Bono, the Hazlehursts and Jim Moody.
Update: seems the media are cottoning on to the low turnout. As noted by Catherina in the comments, News Channel 10 say:
Hundreds rally against child vaccinations
Seems like the saw through the pretence this wasn’t an anti-vaccine rally too. Well done them.
Apparently, the stupidest quote of the day comes from Jim Carrey:
If fire engines were running over people on the way to a fire, we wouldn’t say there shouldn’t be fire engines. We would ask the fire engines to slow down. That’s our message to the CDC – that we need to slow down the vaccination schedule.
There you have it, fire engines should slow down on their way to a fire. Jim Carrey’s other invaluable contribution was apparently taunting ‘big pharma’ for not finding a cure for autism whilst at the same time:
finding cures for “that great scourge restless legs syndrome, also known as lazy ass disease.”
Thats the same ‘lazy ass syndrome‘ that is associated with pregnancy, varicose vein or venous reflux, folate deficiency, sleep apnea, uremia, diabetes, thyroid disease, peripheral neuropathy, Parkinson’s disease and certain auto-immune disorders such as Sjögren’s syndrome, celiac disease, and rheumatoid arthritis.
Oh and ADHD of course. The same ADHD that is included on the front page blurb of Groups Jenny McCarthy is on the board of.
Update II: If anyone would like to pass on Carrey’s kind words to the RLS community, you can do that at their website.
Later on Carrey apparently asked the rhetorical question ‘how stupid do you think we are‘. Heh.
Here is Jim Carrey’s quotes in the full context of his speech, courtesy of Autism News Beat – once again, venturing into the heart of woo-land.
Green Our Vaccines Coverage Elsewhere
Me
Kristina
PalMD
Kristina (again)
Ginny Hughes
Mike Stanton
Orac
Liz Ditz
Orac (again)
and again!
and again!!!
Kristina (once more)
Stifled Mind
Sharon
Seeing Beauty
S.L.
S.L. (again)
Mike Stanton (again)
Steve
Clotted Cognition
Left Brain Right Brain 
Listening to Jim Carrey read his speech word for word off a sheet of paper made me think he’s a good actor, that he was doing an excellent imitation of a really dumb antivaccine extremist. It was interesting, I noted in watching a video that the crowd whooped, applauded and screamed approval at his “lazy ass disease” remark, but when he said that he wasn’t really antivaccine, that he thought vaccines were beneficial, the audience was quiet. No sign of approval for that statement.
By the way, while exercise may help restless leg syndrome, there are also reports that ‘excessive’ exercise can aggravate it.
The stupid is really on fire (borrowing Orac’s phrase).
After that piece of stupid that came out of Jim Carrey’s mouth, I’ve decided that I’m not going to support him from now on.
Goes to show that they have no knowledge and regard for anything other than what they believe in (which is Vaccine causes Autism). It is funny to see how the focus has moved from Thiomersol to the number of shots kids are getting. If it is not one thing it is another.
His comments show something I already knew…Ignorance knows no boundaries and ignorance combined with arrogance is the ultimate concrete wall…you can bang your head till it bleeds but it won’t budge.
I don’t know what it would take to have a jolt back to reality. The reason anti-vaccine people can say natural disease is better than vaccine, or vaccine is poison and blah blah…is infact due to what vaccines have done…vaccines have eradicated and taken over the diseases of past and many of these parents have never seen an outbreak or actual cases of these disease…..so here ignorance is bliss…When you don’t know something, its easy to be against that thing. So since we don’t have those diseases they think we don;t need vaccine….yet the reality is once you break the barrier of vaccine around a community, all it takes is one weak spot and than you are facing the unthinkable.
Vaccines are useless only b/c they have done what we wanted them to do but we cant just discard them because if they are not here, we will go back to age of 1920s
In 1920, the United States had 469,924 measles cases and 7,575 deaths due to measles. From 1958 to 1962, the United States had an average of 503,282 cases and 432 deaths each year
[Http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih1/diseases/activities/activity5_measles-database.htm ]
1 life lost to a preventable cause is too much let alone over 7000.
enough said.
He seriously said that about restless legs syndrome? Gee, when I was about 15 and they started showing ads for a medication for it, I thought at first that it was just another name for stimming with one’s leg, but a quick Internet search informed me otherwise.
Hey, maybe he should borrow Jenny’s “Google PhD” next time before he makes fun of people’s medical conditions.
Restless legs is more than a minor irritation, it keeps people from sleeping. Jimbo’s comment made me wonder if he listened to all the Rush Limbaugh shows where Limbaugh also mocked restless legs sydrome.
http://www.newschannel10.com/Global/story.asp?S=8433207
says “hundreds”
You have to LIVE the reality of having your child go from perfectly normal development to a speechless, withdrawn being within days of receiving a course of vaccines to understand that the vaccines were the cause. If you don’t live it… suffer the loss, the shock, the desperation, with your own senses, then you can’t make the connection.
The author and commentators who avoid the real issue and grab on to numbers in attendance (5,000 registered rally participants)and Jim’s comments about RLS (nothing more than a comic relief given the setting) obviously have not suffered this experience. I hope you never do.
I wonder, why do you have such a blind faith in the establishment.. the CDC, FDA, AAP, etc.? Why would you believe bureaucrats over parents… people without any hidden agendas, who want to help their children and are trying to have the truth be known and understood so others don’t go through their same suffering?
These people are not anti-vaccine. They understand vaccines are necessary, but they KNOW that there is a population of children who are susceptible to the toxins in vaccines. They know because they’ve lived the experience.
Yes, mercury was the most prevalent and obvious, but there are also aluminum, 2-phenoxyethanol, and countless other neurotoxins that many children simply can not handle at such a young age. There are simply too many vaccines given too soon in life for these kids.
Jim “immunology expert” Carey, after making that ridiculous statement about fire engines said,
“Autism is on every street, in every town.
It’s a warning from the universe that there is a serious imbalance in our environment, that immediate change must be made.
…
It’s the canary in the coal mine.”
Wow, nice way to characterise people like my child there Jim. My son’s very existence, is so unnatural and wrong, that it serves as a warning from the universe!
How can he justify making such irrational, nonsensical and bigoted judgements about people.
Similarly I hope no parent ever lives the reality, the shock, the grief, the pain, the horror of losing a living healthy happy child to any of these diseases. You won’t even know till you have lived it or seen it happen and i hope those who unvaccinate never have to witness a child’s loss. Given the choice I don;t know many parents who would want a child lost for ever and buried beneath tons of dirt so PICK your battles wisely. Its not trusting the establishment because establishment has vaccinated children as well mind you. They might be really horirble to put their own kids through the poison they are making for our kids, they must be horrible parents to expose their kids to the conspiracy toxins….makes me want to think, wow they really know thier kid will have autism or other problesm with vaccine and yet they do it, they have got to know because they are promoting and pushing them…so yes i believe it is s HUGE HUGE plan against all kids in US to have all of them sick in next century. OMG I can’t even believe some one in their sane mind can think this is true and the reason we have so many behavior problems and rise in autism is because establishment is slowly posioning ours and their kids….Seriously???
The fact that your kid is still alive despite of so many organisms that can kill him and her is because of vaccines and all the responsible parents who have vaccinated and formed a barrier for all of us.
Please read labels on your hand creams, face creams, cosmetics, tooth paste, soaps, frozen foods and then tell me you understand all the ingredients and can say that none of them can cause any toxic effects on your body in anyway can can’t cross skin and tissue to get to your blood stream. e.g polyethylene glycol they scream about in vaccine is widely used in personal care products and toothpaste [phrma]
CDC and FDA is not a bunch of beaurocrates, they are people who have extensive education and back ground in research and medicine and work on vaccines in addition to millions of other things. In underimmunized populations of the world, 600,000 children die from pertussis and almost one million die from measles each year. The biggest cause of the 1989-1991 measles epidemic in the U.S. was failure to vaccinate preschool children on time. This measles epidemic was responsible for 55,000 cases and more than 120 deaths. Nearly half of those deaths were in children under age five, most of whom had not been immunized.
[http://www.metrokc.gov/health/immunization/facts.htm]
In 1967 when WHO started small pox vaccination there were 10-15 million small pox cases a year world wide and over 2 million deaths each year. Do we want something like that back, or do we want to be at that stage where we loose so many people and than start vaccinating again. May be if we see the horror of a disease and how it kills without distingushing young and old we will be more careful criticising one thing that is saving our kids from being victims of internationally traveling organisms.
I wonder, why do you have such a blind faith in the establishment.. the CDC, FDA, AAP, etc.? Why would you believe bureaucrats over parents
First of all, we ARE parents. Second, we tend to believe the better data. It doesn’t have much to do with personalities or authority.
Amen Joseph
Again, this group is NOT antivaccine… no one is arguing the need and effectiveness of vaccines. No one is calling for an end to vaccinations.
There is a SUSCEPTIBILITY group of children who are suffering vaccine injury. Vaccines are NOT the only cause of autism, they are a major cause which builds up the child’s toxic load. We don’t currently have a way to identify which children are susceptible, so ofcourse people are going to vaccinate on schedule… they don’t know any better.
The message is not “do away with vaccines”… the message is “slow down the schedule and clean up some of the toxins” so that these children are not hurt. In the meantime, let’s develop a test to see which kids can handle the vaccines and which can not.
“Why are they given so close together and so soon?” this is the issue that needs to be analyzed.
This is not a problem started because of a “conspiracy”… this is a problem started out of ignorance… a lack of understanding, that has lead to a generation of children being called the “autism generation”. Yes there are very intelligent people in all of the agencies, and yes, they are human, not infallible. In the scientific process, problems/failures should lead to questioning, further research, and finally, solutions. We must not assume that current medical practices are infallible.
This whole issue is about identifying which children are less able to handle the toxins in vaccines and then managing their vaccine schedules accordingly. Why can’t we err on the side of safety when it comes to these thousands of children?
Should we really consider them collateral damage?
What about Dr. Healy’s (former NIH director)admission that the CDC made a conscious decision not to pursue the possibility of susceptibility groups back in 2004? How can this be ignored?
There is an entire population of children who’s immune/nervous systems are not able to handle the current vaccine schedule. This can not be ignored.
Joseph, better data sponsored by pharmaceutical companies?
No one is calling for an end to vaccinations.
Not exactly true, as demonstrated by various statements made by people in EOHarm and other groups.
Vaccines are NOT the only cause of autism, they are a major cause which builds up the child’s toxic load.
This statement is simply not supported by anything resembling good scientific evidence.
Unsubstantiated assertions are not going to impress anyone here, FYI.
“Why are they given so close together and so soon?” this is the issue that needs to be analyzed.
Yeah, because the CDC’s schedule is the way it is just for the heck of it.
In the scientific process, problems/failures should lead to questioning, further research, and finally, solutions. We must not assume that current medical practices are infallible.
There has been research. It’s necessary to recognize that the result of research can be ‘NO’, at which point you move on. If you won’t accept anything other than ‘YES’, it obviously means that you only care about research as a potential means to confirm what you’ve already decided is true. Furthermore, no one is assuming that medical practices are infallible.
There is an entire population of children who’s immune/nervous systems are not able to handle the current vaccine schedule.
Again, totally unsubstantiated.
Because that is the age they are most vulnerable….like the 5 month old in San diego who was in hospital for 5 days after the case of measles child who was unvaccinated returned from another switzerland who has only 6 diseases to protect from on their schedule before age 11. Not the best covered schedule in my opinion making it so easy for unvaccinated peopel to get sick and bring it back to US.
http://www.euvac.net/graphics/euvac/vaccination/switzerland.html
And this 8 year old unvaccinated infected more kids one of which was a 5 month old and ended up in ER because 5 month old even having moms antibodies against measles are still in danger….
You can wait for them to grow up and have enough immunity and hope they never get sick during that time or you can protect them as early as possible because the younger the immune system the mor eimmature it is the easier for a disease to get in and possibly kill or damage for life.
Jenny didn;t name 10 vaccines with Thio still in them.
Thio was not taken out because it caused autism, it was taken out b/c there was better research and better options to have vaccine packed and preserved and make single dose vials.
To say pediatricians have done HARM??? preaching from her pulpit of arrogance and ignorance saying my child HAD autism…why doesnt she preach what cured that autism and help other parents inher shoes?
What is independent research…..don’t got o CDC but just go to the WHO recommended websites and read papers on this topic. But my problem is any doctos or resreach that would say anything contrary to what the popular belief of this group is, is going to be labelled Pharma sponsored, Govt Sponsered, and all those things. That physician or researcher will be shunned b/c he didnt sunstantiate what was being said…so what is independent research…one that agrees with the point of view???
Because there is plenty of work out there saying what is being claimed is nothing but thoery and there is no truth to it.
You want to have kids screened than rally for that, don’t preech too many too soon, because an overwhelming majority of kids do juts fine with vaccines and the number and timing, may be your campaign needs a different purpose and direction rather than putting all other kids at risk, ask for pretesting and screening if that is what you claim is the problem….than we will see where it goes….because i have no doubt in my mind if the screening starts than something else will be an issue. When she says no way in hell not another childof mine, she is telling every one who listens to her…no vaccines…to me that is antivaccine not slow down vaccine….she can say one thing here oh yeah vaccines save lives, than say no way not another child of mine, than say too many too soon, what is the message here?
Joseph, better data sponsored by pharmaceutical companies?
That’s a complete misrepresentation of the science that doesn’t support your views. This kind of statement tells me you do buy into the Big Conspiracy.
Give me an example of a paper related to autism and vaccines that was demonstrably sponsored by pharmaceutical companies.
How about this one? Thompson et al. (2007) “Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years.” In what way was this sponsored by pharmaceutical companies? Why did SafeMinds participate in this study if it was?
Of all thimerosal-autims studies in existence, Thompson et al. (2007) is the most thorough and methodologically sound study, BTW. It would be extremely difficult to top it.
What about Berman et al. (2007) which failed to replicate Hornig et al.? That was a study of the MIND Institute.
It goes to show you that ignorance comes in all shapes and sizes. My children and I are all victims of vaccine injury – hearing loss, vision loss, brain damage, etc. etc. etc. Until people wake up and get a clue as to how many have been truly affected people will continue to vaccinate their babies. FYI – there were 8,000 attendees at this rally. How do I know this? They had to preregister for the event. Please stop lying!!!
Because that is the most vulnerabel age to get any of those diseases. you dont need protection against Hib once you are 5 or over b/c the risk is way too low. But you need tetanus protection all ur life and so does your child. You need purtussis protection all your life because most casesof purtussis in children under 2 half of them get them from mom and dad and half of them die.
Another example the 8 yr old unvaccinated child coming back from switzerland (whose vaccine schdule has been presented as a model many of anti vaccine people) what does he bring back…MEASLES…infection 11 more kids in pediatrician office, market where he went and a show. One of them a 5 year old who nearly died in hospital because he was too young to get a MMR shot and yet moms antibodies (natural antibodies) couldnt save him from going near death.
That one case in Federal court is a court decision there is not scientific prove that vaccine caused the mitochondrial defect to accelerate…that is a court order not a scinetific proof.
CDC schedule is not just for fun, it is not bron out of ignorance like you assume…what is born out of ignorance is her comment from her pulpit yesterday “pediatricians are doing HARM’ I love my duaghters pediat to death and she has been a life saver though she has also vaccinated my child, that was not harm that was saving her from getting terribly sick.
Doing HARM? What is harm? harm is what this attitude is going to do one day if this keeps going on. If the main concern is to screen kids than rally that, don’t rally green vaccine or too many too soon, because children are very resiliant they handle these vaccine and their number jsut fine. The comb vaccines draw the number of shots down to half, when you have to get 5 pricks, comb vacs pull it down to only 2 pricks. The only kids getting 8 shots at a time are those who want to catch up like the 8 year old in TIMES this week who nealry died of meneigitis and his antivaccine mom went in and got all her kids up to date and immunized.
If the agenda is screening than show it. For her to say No way no hell not another childof mine doesnt sound like Slow down to me. She can say oh vaccines have done good too and then say too many too soon and then say toxins and then say I wont vaccinate another one of mine ever….What is her message? May be people who follow them need to ask them how stupid you are and how long before you make up yor mind?
Independent study issue by Mr Carry…there are plenty of studies outside CDc and its website to show you the rsults that don’t match with these claims…it depends where you are looking for your information. I am sure any study that will say anything different will be labled pharma sponsored or Govt spy because nothing different from their agenda will be good enough to be admitted as valid.
Like i said Ignorance is bliss and Ignorance with arrogance is dangerous.
People who have proper education and knowledge are never ignorant, i am not sure i can say that about Mr and Mrs carry.
when you have injury you will hang on to anything that seems like an answer even though it is not the answer.
In my last post I meant a 5 month old in san diego not a 5 year old.
Dawn said:
“Until people wake up and get a clue as to how many have been truly affected people will continue to vaccinate their babies.”
I thought this wasn’t an antivax rally?
lol TOM
Borrowing from some rather nice and famous ladies just a bit R-E-S-P-E-C-T that is what I do not see!
You know folks, trying to justify the rude behavior and denigration of not only autistic people but also those with RLS truly shows a lack of respect.
How can these people not be aware of the amount of apologizing going on in recent news? Some guy about inbreeding in a particular state, another about karma, bittergate, ransom notes.
Start getting this into your heads oh JnJ apologists, they aren’t paying enough Respect or Attention to the issues of those of us affected by other medical conditions, and in my opinion Neither are You!
They may well have pre-registered but there is no way there were 8,000 people there. Thats the opinion of at least three people I’ve spoken to – one of whom got their estimate from a local cop managing the march. Look at the pictures for goodness sake!
Does it really matter how many went? I was there. There are no photos that can show everyone anyways. There were close to 8,000 for sure. But who cares. If you know anything about autism.. many parents could not attend as many autistic children also have huge sensory disfunction. Meaning, they cannot tolerate large crowds, plane rides and the like. Also many of these parents are low on funds due to the out of pocket costs they incur trying to help there children. So the parents experiencing these hardships could not attend. Those are the ones that sent photos for actual attendees to bring and show how vaccines affected there children. Believe me the community of people is LARGE!
Sorry Lisa, the independent people I asked – and the photo/video evidence – quite clearly show far, far less than 8,000 people.
And yes, I do know something about autism. My child is severely autistic. I just don’t buy into the vaccine stuff. I also don’t believe that the community you speak of is particularly large.
Further, I think that the group of people are headed by a woman (Jenny McCarthy) who is clearly anti-vaccine. On Larry King Live she said:
No ‘too many, too soon’ there.
I’m very glad that some of you enjoyed your day out yesterday but I want you to take away one thought here: no science has changed. There is still no decent science that shows vaccines cause autism. Its been over ten years now. Still nothing.
In the meantime, people such as yourselves are raising questions about vaccines that have no merit. Next time you read about a person being hospitalised from a vaccine preventable disease, I hope you think about what you did yesterday.
Further, I think that the group of people are headed by a woman (Jenny McCarthy) who is clearly anti-vaccine. On Larry King Live she said:
I am surely not going to tell anyone to vaccinate. But if I had another child, there’s no way in hell…….for my next kid—which I’m never going to have—there’s no way.
No ‘too many, too soon’ there.
My point exactly
She can say oh yeah vaccines have helped, and blah blah blah but her agenda is no vaccines. She didnt name the 10 vaccines that have thio still in them and she said why was murcury taken out…not because it has link to autisim but becasue researched showed how to have single dose vials that dont need murcury to preserve them. I will repeat Comb vaccines reduce the number of stick not increase them like she claimed. Only child having 8 shots in day will be th eone like the one featured in TIMES this week who nearly died of menigitis and his mom who was anti vaccine got all her kids vaccinated. Kids who are catching up might get 8 shots a day but if you are doing comb vaccines they dont get 8 sticks in a day.
The person who heads our office has 2 autistic children and yet he works in vaccines.
Jim Carrey can hope one day all these claims will be validated but he can only hope.
The author of this artical, obviously doesn’t have a child with autism. A child that after their vaccinations got real sick and then lost all words, skills and lived in a lost little world. I invite the author, who I assume is a male, since he also knows nothing about RLS to live at my house for a week, live with autism, then you will see why we want safe vaccines.
The author of this article is in fact father to a child with severe autism. I invite cheryl k to try reading whats in front of her next time.
I hope the Jenny McRally organizers will stop lying about how many people attended the rally. They said there would be 10,000. Then it was maybe 8,000, the reality shows more like somewhere between 800 and 1,500.
If they were confident in what their message was then why lie about constantly inflate the number of people who show up at these things?
For all the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent by people to organize this shindig, and to transport people there, nothing will change. No one in charge of vaccine research cares what they think. From what I can tell most politicians are sick of the flaming nutjobs telling them about toxins in vaccines. In my opinion, this was just a big show for the megalomaniacs of autism. A chance to imagine that they are big shots again.
The antivaxers were not going to use “greened” vaccines anyway. Nothing has changed, except now there are a bunch of kids who feel more labeled as damaged and some who will grow up feeling like objects for their parents to exploit.
You ask: ““Why are they given so close together and so soon?” this is the issue that needs to be analyzed.”
It has been analyzed. I have books from the 1960s that analyse what the best schedule for each vaccine is to get adequate immunity with the minimum of injections. I even have one from the 1700s that discusses the best scheduling for smallpox variolation (that’s using live smallpox vaccine!) based on the observations. And every time there is an advance in a vaccine, they re-analyze its schedule and do more testing.
The goal is to make as many babies, toddlers, and children as possible as immune as possible before they are likely to need the immunity. Right now, preliminary testing on acellular pertussis vaccine is analyzing whether it can provide adequate immunity if given at birth.
JABS FOR NEWBORNS!!!! OH NOES!!!! Oh yes, because in the case of pertussis, infants are at the highest risk of permanent damage or death even with modern medical care, so the vaccines have to be given early. The pertussis vaccinations have to be given often because not all immune systems mature at the same rate – it’s better to inoculate early and have full to partial immunity at 3 months with the remaining injections increasing the protection than to leave all infants 100% unprotected until 6 months.
Short of bringing up the child in a plastic bubble, you can’t prevent them from being exposed to these diseases. The recent measles epidemics in SanDiego and Tucson started with an unvaccinated individual who was infected in Switzerland and returned to the USA before they had symptoms.
Kev, maybe you should consider a spam filter for comments like the above. They are frequent and exceedingly annoying.
I wonder if anyone has contacted restless leg syndrome organizations to tell them the Jim Carrey called their pain, “lazy ass disease”?
I’ve thought about it Joseph but it would require scripting of a level beyond me to account for all possible permutations.
An excellent idea Ms Clark – go here to do that 🙂
Is it just me–or has all of this seemed surreal? I just had a good laugh–I posted on this speech. Carrey quotes a “Dr. Burton Goldberg,” about autism being the canary in the coal mine. Funny…this guy is not a medical physician, he is a publisher. He received an honorary doctorate from some now defunct Integrative Medicine university (and I use that word loosely!). Wow…
// A child that after their vaccinations got real sick and then lost all words, skills and lived in a lost little world. I invite the author, who I assume is a male, since he also knows nothing about RLS to live at my house for a week, live with autism, then you will see why we want safe vaccines.//
So what if the child had cherry PopTarts before the vaccines? Who’s to say it wasn’t the PopTarts that doomed the child to a “lost little world.” Same reasoning.
Perish the thought I emote on such matters, being a male and all. Oh, and a doc in the pocket of Big Pharma. Wait, I’m a pathologist. Crap, where’s my kick back?!?? You bastards!! Oh,and RLS. Don’t have much experience living with that. I do have some familiarity with restless third leg syndrome, though.
Please spare us the silly antivax canards. I, indeed, live in a house with autism every day (as does Kev). Funny, I actually enjoy spending time with my daughter. Imagine that.
Tsu Dho Nimh – they sound fascinating. If they aren’t confidential to your research, do you mind giving a citation for them, please? I’ve been looking through some C19th medical newsletters and I’m interested to track down various sources for things that come up there. Because it is extraordinary how the antivax stuff has cycled and recycled for so long.
Here’s what a 10,000 person crowd looks like. And this. And this.
And here’s an 8,000 person crowd.
Please compare these to the AoA sourced image of the crowd. You can see the grass at the back of them for goodness sake.
This is science? Staring at two pictures and concluding?
Picture one is the line up. The people were lined up to be no more than 40 feet across. This picture was taken from the front of the line, on the right hand side, that line stretches back to the left.
The second picture is from the press box, not the stage. Between the stage and the press box was about 100 feet, and it was packed with people.
I was there, I have no idea if there were 8000 people, but I can say for sure that there was more than 1000.
kev: well done on the long-distance crowd analysis. I’ve looked at a lot of the photos — the crowd was rather thin.
Here’s Arthur Allen’s piece on the march. — some snippets
[snip]
go read the whole thing — he also discusses conversations with Olmstead and a quack doctor.
brstpathdoc: you owe me some screen cleaner: Don’t have much experience living with that. I do have some familiarity with restless third leg syndrome, though.
I was there, I have no idea if there were 8000 people, but I can say for sure that there was more than 1000.
and that is the funny part. 1,000 is a good, respectable number. 1,500 is a good, respectable number.
8,000 as an exageration is not respectable.
There were, what, about a dozen bus and carpools listed on the TACA website? Add locals and you have a good sized rally–maybe 1-2,000 people.
In the end, the total lack of substance was the problem not the number of participants. Arthur Allen hit the nail on the head:
“How many is too many?”
“Which ones do you give up?”
The fact that they couldn’t even answer these OBVIOUS questions is telling.
This wasn’t Jenny McCarthy’s “I have a dream” speach. This was Jenny McCarthy’s “I’m dreaming” speach.
Mary Parsons:
From the 1960s: Zinsser’s Microbiology or any immunology text.
For the early vaccination stuff, Google Books will be your new best friend. Search for “Full View”, set the dates for before the 1860s, and use variolation or small pox as the search word.
James Moore’s “The history of the Small Pox”, from 1815 has a chapter on the opposition.
“A Century of Vaccination and what it teaches” might also be good.
From there, just keep hitting Google’s book search for the authors they mention – you can find interesting things in soem of their week;ly magazines, including tirades about the Godless immorality of vaccines.
You will also find out why variolation didn’t work as well in the hands of physicians as it did when amateurs were doing it.
and that is the funny part. 1,000 is a good, respectable number. 1,500 is a good, respectable number.
8,000 as an exageration is not respectable.
And that’s fine, but that shouldn’t be what the lead for the story is. The lead should be:
“They said this; these are the facts that show where they are wrong.”
Simply sniggering at them for not getting the turnout that was expected or advertised makes this site come off as petty.
All I want are verifiable facts, not juvenile banter.
Hawkes – I’ve been blogging on vaccines/autism for five years. Use the search function.
And that’s fine, but that shouldn’t be what the lead for the story is. The lead should be:
Why should that happen here? It should have happened in the reports from the people who marched. Instead they are trying to make more out of the march than really happened.
It is good an proper for Kev to call them on their exaggeration.
I find it amusing that they (the marchers) hav decided that public relations lies are more important than facts. It is amusing in this instance because it is basically harmless, since no one really covered the rally.
Now, when they lie about other facts for public relations gains, these same people are often doing harm to my child’s future.
I wonder why the media that did cover the McRally didn’t call Jenny on the blatantly false information on her rally-green t-shirt? I guess because no one who interviewed her did any fact checking on what is in vaccines? These people don’t seem to be so concerned about facts, they seem to be more concerned with saying whatever it takes to get their faces in the news and to scare people off of vaccines. Saying that 8,000 people showed up makes their argument sound more legitimate than saying 1,000 people showed up.
They say they aren’t anti-vaccine, but they were marching with lots of signs and nearly all of them were anti-vaccine. Very few could be taken as meaning, “We really want to vaccinate our children. Just filter out those ‘chick embryos’ and monkey kidneys and the aluminum.”
When Dr. Jay Gordon said something like, “Does this mean we are anti-vaccine?” it sounded like about 3 people yelled, “NO!” If he had said something like, “…a generation of children destroyed by vaccines!” it’s obvious to me that there would have been a few hundred or a thousand people whistling and applauding. I think I heard him ask that question on the Autism Speaks rally video on youtube.