Green Our Vaccines – the reality

4 Jun

Green our vaccines at 09:15

Contrary to the press reports and the frenzied claims of Jenny McCarthy of rally participants numbering between 8 to 10,000 it seems according to police who accompanied the rally that there were between 500 – 1,000 participants. I cannot source that quote, for which I am sorry. I hope to be able to source it very soon but where I got it from is not available just yet.

The above photo was taken at 09:15. The below photo was taken at the end of the rally.

Green our vaccines crowd

It certainly doesn’t seem to be a very imposing crowd.

People who watched the start of the rally via webcams (my ISP decided to go down today of all days) say that a very loose straggly crowd walking very slowly took about 20 mins to pass a fixed point.

Someone else attending the rally said (again, in confidence):

There were about 500 people at the rally today, about half of whom were children. The press conference lasted for about an hour and a half. The speakers were, in order: Dr. Jay Gordon, Boyd Haley, Dr. Jerry Kartzinel, RFK Jr., Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy. RFK Jr. spoke at length about the science disproving a link between vaccines and autism. He said that all that science is paid for by the pharmaceutical industry and that top vaccine advocates such as Renee Jenkins and Paul Offit are in the pockets of these companies.

Other notables in the crowd included JB Handley, Scott and Laura Bono, the Hazlehursts and Jim Moody.

Update: seems the media are cottoning on to the low turnout. As noted by Catherina in the comments, News Channel 10 say:

Hundreds rally against child vaccinations

Seems like the saw through the pretence this wasn’t an anti-vaccine rally too. Well done them.

Apparently, the stupidest quote of the day comes from Jim Carrey:

If fire engines were running over people on the way to a fire, we wouldn’t say there shouldn’t be fire engines. We would ask the fire engines to slow down. That’s our message to the CDC – that we need to slow down the vaccination schedule.

There you have it, fire engines should slow down on their way to a fire. Jim Carrey’s other invaluable contribution was apparently taunting ‘big pharma’ for not finding a cure for autism whilst at the same time:

finding cures for “that great scourge restless legs syndrome, also known as lazy ass disease.”

Thats the same ‘lazy ass syndrome‘ that is associated with pregnancy, varicose vein or venous reflux, folate deficiency, sleep apnea, uremia, diabetes, thyroid disease, peripheral neuropathy, Parkinson’s disease and certain auto-immune disorders such as Sjögren’s syndrome, celiac disease, and rheumatoid arthritis.

Oh and ADHD of course. The same ADHD that is included on the front page blurb of Groups Jenny McCarthy is on the board of.

Update II: If anyone would like to pass on Carrey’s kind words to the RLS community, you can do that at their website.

Later on Carrey apparently asked the rhetorical question ‘how stupid do you think we are‘. Heh.

Here is Jim Carrey’s quotes in the full context of his speech, courtesy of Autism News Beat – once again, venturing into the heart of woo-land.

Green Our Vaccines Coverage Elsewhere

Me
Kristina
PalMD
Kristina (again)
Ginny Hughes
Mike Stanton
Orac
Liz Ditz
Orac (again)
and again!
and again!!!
Kristina (once more)
Stifled Mind
Sharon
Seeing Beauty
S.L.
S.L. (again)
Mike Stanton (again)
Steve
Clotted Cognition

120 Responses to “Green Our Vaccines – the reality”

  1. Ms. Clark June 7, 2008 at 00:04 #


    at 1:53 you can hear Dr. Jay ask, “Are we antivaccine?” And a few people near him yell, “No!” Maybe they are part of the rally staff who keep saying that it wasn’t supposed to be an anti-vaccine rally.

    How about the reaction to Carrey when he says loving his daughter and Jenny and Evan has “made him a man.” that’s at about 3:00. There’s a huge reaction from the crowd.

  2. momanabanana June 7, 2008 at 02:24 #

    http://www.autismspeaks.org/inthenews/green_our_vaccines_recap.php

    This issue is only getting started…it’s not going to disappear. We, the parents who know there’s a link because we’ve seen it with our own eyes, are not going anywhere.

    Dr. Healy is not going anywhere. What she has said about the refusal of the CDC to persue susceptibility group studies is FACT.

    I was one of those people who stood 10 feet in front of the microphone… I did not organize the rally… I supported it because my son was injured by vaccines and so were thousands of other children. All 50 states along with Canada, Mexico, and England were represented.

    Deny it all you want to… Or better yet, keep arguing about the number of people in attendance. That’s a key issue, since there is a direct correlation between the number of people who say something and the degree to which that something is true.

    Here’s an inconvenient little truth…There’s IS a population of children who are genetically susceptible to vaccine injury.

    Are there people in the autism community who are entirely antivaccine? Yes. Are they right in thinking this way? Ofcourse not. Was this rally anti-vaccine?… NO. All extremes represent an unhealthy imbalance.

    I am not anti-vaccine. I am careful. My son had a titers test and didn’t need certain booster shots… he didn’t get them because he already had the necessary immunology (thanks to an erroneous double dose of vaccines as an infant).

    By the way, much of the commentary here is as laughable as doing away with vaccines. This blog proves that both sides have their extremists.

    It’s been a pleasure…. I leave you to your consciences.

  3. Ms. Clark June 7, 2008 at 03:16 #

    No one is going to budge the vaccine schedule or change the vaccine formulations because a bunch of scientific illiterates led by a bunch of wandering wannabes misrepresents facts about the vaccine schedule and vaccine formulations. I have no doubt that antivax websites will continue to spout conspiracy theories and I have no doubt that there will be parents who will say stuff like, “my baby descended into the hell that is autism within three minutes of her 4 month vaccines.” And I have no doubt that credulous people will continue to believe such statements.

    I also don’t doubt that there may be many more outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases thanks to the tactics of people like those who attended the rally who want vaccinations to stop right now and pretend that they’ll all be “on board” with the CDC schedule after it conforms to the amateur vaccinologists’ own ideas of what it should be. And unfortunately, I think we can look forward to learning of 3 month old babies dying horrible deaths by whooping cough and measles, and we may hear of increasing numbers of babies born with limb deformations and blindnees and deafness and autism from Congenital Rubella Syndrome.

    The correlary of that is we might see demonstrations of hundreds of enraged parents whose children were born with CRS, or died of vaccine preventable meningitis or whooping cough or measles because they had been scared off of vaccinating their kids properly by the “green your vaccines” brigade. Maybe they’ll picket that famed office in Nixa, MO, or maybe they’ll picket and scream angry statements by the hundreds outside some former “comedienne’s” home in Hollywood with pictures of their dead children on their picket signs. And maybe that’ll make all the nightly news programs.

  4. Joseph June 7, 2008 at 04:23 #

    We, the parents who know there’s a link because we’ve seen it with our own eyes, are not going anywhere.

    You can’t infer a link like the one that is stipulated based on observation of a number of single cases. Only data can tell us if there’s a link. It’s pretty arrogant to say “I know the truth because I have a special way of knowing.”

    By the way, much of the commentary here is as laughable as doing away with vaccines.

    If that’s so, I’d suggest you address it. Sounds like it should be easy.

  5. Kev June 7, 2008 at 08:35 #

    _”This issue is only getting started…”_

    Its amazing how many times I’ve heard that line over the last 5 years. Usually its closely followed by the line ‘the science is coming soon, just wait a few more months’.

  6. HCN June 7, 2008 at 08:57 #

    I remember hearing from someone in the Autism-Mercury Yahoo group about some great break through research was coming out, and it would fix everything! Turned out the paper was the Medical Hypothesis journal’s publishing the “autism is mercury poisoning” stuff. Oh, yeah… that convinced everyone… NOT!

  7. Sullivan June 7, 2008 at 17:18 #

    Showing up at a rally is proof that people believe that their children were injured by vaccines–not proof that they actually were.

    No, I am not denying that vaccine injury exists. However, the statement “my child has autism therefore he has vaccine injury” is false.

    This issue is only getting started…it’s not going to disappear.

    Yes, no amount of factual data will make it go away either.

  8. farmwifetwo June 7, 2008 at 20:17 #

    A friend’s co-worker’s 3 week old child died this week from bacterial meningitus.

    A disease for which there is vaccinations to prevent. Someone gave this child that disease b/c they knew better than the “scientists”.

    This will become the new “norm”. Frightening.

    S.

  9. Kev June 7, 2008 at 20:46 #

    That is awful – what a terrible thing 😦

  10. Carrie Elsass June 8, 2008 at 20:57 #

    In defense of the restless leg comment- look it up yourselves:
    Adults at risk for RLS also were more likely to be overweight, unemployed, daily smokers, and to have issues with work attendance and performance.

  11. Regan June 9, 2008 at 00:21 #

    RLS is a neurologic disorder.

    Some people display RLS from early childhood on, and it’s not too difficult to imagine that if someone was chronically sleep deprived and in pain, that there could be an increased likelihood of being unemployed, and having issues with work attendance and performance. Being overweight can result from many different sources, although jumping to assumptions and value judgements of “laziness” may be the easy way out. Unless I am mistaken, even Jenny McCarthy has been known to puff on a cigarette or two.

    Casting aspersions on those with RLS was a cheap shot carrying all kinds of value judgments and assumptions and was unnecessary to make the point. I think it’s a mistake to play the “our disorder is more worthy than their disorder” card.

  12. Ms. Clark June 9, 2008 at 01:18 #

    Sleep deprivation can cause all kinds of problems, and I seriously doubt the Mr. Dumb and Dumber took the time to do research on restless legs syndrome before he called it “lazy ass disease”. I just hope he gets to experience it one day. I just might interfere with his ability to show up for work. Wouldn’t that be poetic justice?

  13. Keithp June 9, 2008 at 16:02 #

    I was at the Rally, near the front of the line, so I cannot say for certain how many people were there, although, it seemed to me that there were several thousand, perhaps not 8,000, but what does it matter anyways??

    All you negative posters here should be ashamed of yourselves. You point out every little detail that cannot be proven as a fault in the parents’ arguments, yet deny the very same unproven details that support them.

    I too, watched my daughter go from healthy, babbling “mama” and “dada” at 3 months old, to being mentally comatose and unresponsive immediately after her vaccination. She’s now 5 and still doesn’t speak, and has several other ‘classic’ signs of autism (and has been officially diagnosed since age 18 months… took them a YEAR just to make the diagnosis)

    Many of are taunting us as ‘anti-vaccine’ which really is only half true. When Jenny said ‘hell no’ if she would have another child vaccinated, I believe it was the same reaction as mine, which is “hell no, until they remove the toxic chemicals and agree to space them out”. Sure I want my child to be protected, but there’s no need for them to have to play Russian roulette with a 1 in 150 chance of the vaccine making them in many cases, irreversibly brain damaged, which in essence is what autism really is.

  14. Kev June 9, 2008 at 20:19 #

    _”All you negative posters here should be ashamed of yourselves. “_

    Amd yet I’m not.

    Every little detail that cannot be proven?

    What detail is that? How about the detail that after over 10 years of vaccine/autism babble *no* studies have established a causative connection.

    The leaders of the green our vaccines movement have an awful lot of money. Why don’t they set up and fund some proper, science-led studies?

    Autism is not brain damage for goodness sake. Its a developmental condition.

  15. Keithp June 9, 2008 at 20:40 #

    “no studies have established a causative connection.

    The leaders of the green our vaccines movement have an awful lot of money. Why don’t they set up and fund some proper, science-led studies?

    Autism is not brain damage for goodness sake. Its a developmental condition.”

    And there are NO peer-reviewed studies at all. NONE, NOT ONE. ALL studies so far have been sponsored by special interests, be they corporate of government.

    So exactly what do you have against removing poisons and spreading out the vaccine schedule?? All known effects can find no plausible reason NOT to do this. Safety is a #1 priority, right?

    This is just like golbal warming.. deny deny deny, then admit, but deny the cause, then argue about the impact… so is that what’s next? Are you going to try and tell me that my daughter isn’t autistic?

    Tell me.. what’s the cause? *duh*IDUNNO* aint an answer either, what, in your opinion is causing it, knowing what YOU know?

  16. Joseph June 9, 2008 at 21:53 #

    Sure I want my child to be protected, but there’s no need for them to have to play Russian roulette with a 1 in 150 chance of the vaccine making them in many cases, irreversibly brain damaged, which in essence is what autism really is.

    There is no evidence whatsoever that neurological vaccine injury occurs in 1 out of 150 vaccinations. Stop making up data please.

  17. Kev June 9, 2008 at 22:36 #

    _”And there are NO peer-reviewed studies at all. NONE, NOT ONE. ALL studies so far have been sponsored by special interests, be they corporate of government.”_

    Are you joking? Are you saying that ALL science is sponsored by special interests? That’s a ridiculous conspiracy-theory driven opinion.

    _”This is just like global warming.. deny deny deny, then admit, but deny the cause, then argue about the impact…”_

    WTF? Who’s talking about global warming???

    _”so is that what’s next? Are you going to try and tell me that my daughter isn’t autistic?”_

    Uh, no.

    _”Tell me.. what’s the cause? duhIDUNNO* aint an answer either, what, in your opinion is causing it, knowing what YOU know?”_

    The cause of autism? I wish there was one straight answer. I don’t think there’s even one thing, I think there’s many slightly differing autismS. In the main, I think its mostly genetic with an environmental component but that’s just my opinion. Nobody KNOWS Keith.

  18. Leila June 9, 2008 at 23:06 #

    KeithP, no child in the universe can say “mamma” and “dada” at 3 months old, so it’s hard to believe your claims. Autism tipically presents at around 12-18 months, although some babies show even earlier signs. Many neurological disorders, even in adulthood, cause regression and loss of skills, so the fact that autism does that is not surprising nor means that autism is triggered by an external injury. It is the very nature of this disorder to start in toddlerhood, even though it was written in the child’s genes at the point of conception.

  19. Liz Ditz June 10, 2008 at 00:38 #

    keithp–

    First, please accept my support for you as a parent of a child with developmental disabilities. It is a hard road to walk.

    Second: your comment: too, watched my daughter go from healthy, babbling “mama” and “dada” at 3 months old, to being mentally comatose and unresponsive immediately after her vaccination.

    It is unlikely that your daughter at three months was reliably producing “mama” on the sight of, or to attract the attention of, her mother, and likewise for “dada”.

    National Network for Childcare Milestones

    Language/Social Skills at 3 months:

    * make cooing, gurgling sounds
    * smile when smiled at
    * communicate hunger, fear, discomfort (through crying or facial expression)
    * usually quiet down at the sound of a soothing voice or when held
    * anticipate being lifted
    * react to “peek-a-boo” games

  20. Lin June 18, 2008 at 17:13 #

    So many coincidences in just one day?!? Seems to me the inability to reveal sources, the ISP “deciding” to go down today (of all days), the lack of credibility from the eye witness (hey – I was there and the speakers are not even presented in the correct order), etc. would tend to make any normal person question the reliability and factual content of this extremely biased, blatantly dishonest account of the rally. Well done – sacrilege at its finest – AGAIN!!

  21. Matt June 18, 2008 at 18:48 #

    Lin,

    post a picture or video of the whole crowd and show that there were 8,500 (or whatever the claimed number is by now) at the rally.

    More importantly, show that the rally had an effect on anyone other than the attendees.

  22. Kev June 18, 2008 at 19:12 #

    I’m quite prepared to accept the possibility I’m wrong Lin but sacrilege? Are you admitting this is all a Cult?

    Oh and I posted the ‘official’ crowd shot from the AoA website. If there are more than 1,500 people in that shot I’ll eat my hat. See further up the comment thread for links to pictures of crowd shots of 8 – 10,000

  23. Lin June 18, 2008 at 21:46 #

    I was referring to your blog – sacrilege.

  24. Lin June 18, 2008 at 21:49 #

    BTW – it is but one shot – the attendees couldn’t have possibly all fit into just one shot – even with a wide angle.

  25. Kev June 18, 2008 at 23:02 #

    Uh-huh, I got you were referring to my blog Lin – what religious thing am I profaning?

    _”the attendees couldn’t have possibly all fit into just one shot”_

    Yeah, right. I wonder how all those crowd shots of 8 – 10,000 I posted were taken then?

  26. Lin June 18, 2008 at 23:20 #

    You know, I truly have better things to with my time than engage in a war of words with the likes of you. I fully realize you do not have anything better to do and live for such opportunities. If there aren’t any available, you create them, just as you’ve created an entire false account of the GOV rally. Why? For the satisfaction of your cult following, which is the other thing you live for!

    I was at the rally. I witnessed it first hand. Your entire piece is seriously flawed; purposely so, in my opinion.

    Why is it so wrong to desire a safer vaccine schedule, more rigorous oversight of the governmental agencies in charge of vaccine safety, and to err on the side of caution? To not believe vaccines have side effects is nothing less than lunacy. To believe the vaccine schedule and their contents cannot be improved upon is nothing less than indolence.

  27. S.L. June 18, 2008 at 23:23 #

    Sorry, but I find it hysterical that people who went to a rally led by the Indigo Mother Warrior herself, refer to any of us as a “cult.” Wonder what Kryon would have to say about that…

  28. Lin June 18, 2008 at 23:34 #

    Often, the truth hurts, presuming of course that one is capable of human emotions and feelings.

  29. S.L. June 18, 2008 at 23:43 #

    I almost spit my water out onto my Mac. The truth hurts–I guess it does, to people like Kirby and JMC when it is screaming in their ears. Like that there is NO link between vaccines & autism. Or that the DAN! Protocol is a big fat waste of money. Or that there are NO autistic Amish. Or that there are autistic adults in this world. Yeah, I imagine those types of truths hurt those folks, and they do all they can to avoid them. One can only wonder where people like that would get an income if they admitted those truths for once and for all…

    Right–we that promote the acceptance of autistic individuals, we that say we believe in our children, we that love with no strings attached, we that embrace our autistic children and friends, we that don’t attempt to force our children into some mold we’ve created or society has put forth… Yes, we are obviously incapable of human emotions and feelings…

  30. Liz Ditz June 18, 2008 at 23:49 #

    On estimating crowds

    Crowd estimation:
    Imponderables spoke to New York officials about how they make crowd estimates. In most cases, the task is left to the local police precinct where the parade takes place.

    The police make stabs at accuracy, but it is no more a science in New York than in Pasadena. The most popular technique for Fifth Avenue parades (such as the St. Patrick’s Day parade or Columbus Day parade) is to count the number of rows of spectators behind the blue wooden barriers that are placed on each side of the street. Each barrier is fourteen feet long. Assuming that the population behind each barrier will reflect the parade route as a whole, the police estimate how many spectators fit into the square footage available in essence, they duplicate the methodology of Doo-Dah founder Apanel without using photographs, and simply assume that density levels will not vary greatly at different points in the parade route.

  31. Liz Ditz June 19, 2008 at 00:22 #

    Lin asked: Why is it so wrong to desire a safer vaccine schedule,

    There are two things wrong with that question. One is “begging the question” — assuming that the vaccine schedule isn’t safe. The second is Lin’s assumption that there is no such thing as a risk-reward calculation. Let us take a simple example: delaying inoculations against a given infectious disease increases the chance that the child will acquire that disease, with its attendant morbidity-mortality risks.

    more rigorous oversight of the governmental agencies in charge of vaccine safety,

    Again, Lin starts off by begging the question–assuming that the current level of oversight isn’t rigorous.

    What would qualify as “more rigorous”? A guarantee that no vaccines ever injure anybody? What constitutes “injure”? Who would be charged with this oversight, and how would those bodies be constituted?

    and to err on the side of caution? To not believe vaccines have side effects is nothing less than lunacy. Lin, all decisions — even the decision to do nothing –have possible deleterious outcomes for some people, some time. I don’t know a single person who supports routine childhood vaccination who would argue that there are never side effects to vaccination. Yes, there are side effects, but they are rare. Autism is not a side effect of vaccination, and never has been.

    Vaccination programs are public health — meaning that the benefits and risks have to be weighed on a very-large-group (macro) level, not on an individual, case-by-case level. Parents perceive the outcome of the vaccination at an individual level, and (mistakenly) reason from there.

    To believe the vaccine schedule and their contents cannot be improved upon is nothing less than indolence.

    Another great example of begging the question–“If it weren’t for the Green Our Vaccine Movement, there would be no push to improve on the vaccine schedule and contents!”

    Compare this:

    “t is interesting to note that although children receive more vaccines today than they did a hundred years ago, when only the smallpox vaccine was routinely recommended in infancy, the number of separate immunologic challenges contained in vaccines has actually decreased! The smallpox vaccine contained about 200 viral proteins. If you add up today’s eleven routinely recommended vaccines, the number of vaccine proteins and polysaccharides (complex sugars) is less than 130: diphtheria (1), tetanus (1), pertussis (2-5), polio (15), measles (10), mumps (9), rubella (5), Hib (2), varicella (69), conjugate pneumococcus (8), and hepatitis B (1).”

    Gee, that all happened because…the drive to create safer vaccines. By physicians.

  32. Matt June 19, 2008 at 00:26 #

    Why is it so wrong to desire a safer vaccine schedule, more rigorous oversight of the governmental agencies in charge of vaccine safety, and to err on the side of caution? To not believe vaccines have side effects is nothing less than lunacy. To believe the vaccine schedule and their contents cannot be improved upon is nothing less than indolence.

    Who says the schedule can’t be made safer? You are making up things to argue against.

    For example, is removing MMR from the schedule–as recommended by Jenny McCarthy’s organization–safer? Based on what science? Based on what criteria?

    Just saying, “Too Many Too Soon” without support is nonsense. How many is “not too many” when is “not too soon”?

    I’m all for a safer vaccine schedule. What if the science tells us that we don’t have enough yet? What if the science tells us that vaccinating earlier would save lives?

    Just because I put a wrapper around it saying, “This is a safer vaccine program” doesn’t make it necessarily correct.

    I have a prediction: the vaccine schedule will change in the future. The Science will tell us that we are better off with a different one. It isn’t written in stone. But, that doesn’t mean that there are too many.

  33. Kev June 19, 2008 at 01:11 #

    _”You know, I truly have better things to with my time than engage in a war of words with the likes of you.”_

    The I suggest you scamper off and do them toots 🙂

    _”I fully realize you do not have anything better to do and live for such opportunities.”_

    Remind me Lin – was it you who commented on here? Or was it your clone with nothing better to do who lives for such opportunities?

    _”just as you’ve created an entire false account of the GOV rally. Why? For the satisfaction of your cult following, which is the other thing you live for!”_

    Wow – and look! Jim n Jen follow a made up set of beliefs about vaccines for the satisfaction of their cult following. Awww, I guess really, we’re all the same and should just try to love each other and blah blah blah.

    _”I was at the rally. I witnessed it first hand. Your entire piece is seriously flawed; purposely so, in my opinion.”_

    But weirdly, all the photos and video point to a pretty small crowd. I think your opinion is seriously flawed. I’m not sure if its deliberate or just stupidity though.

  34. Lin June 19, 2008 at 01:35 #

    Matt,

    It’s quite simple! First, to think there is absolutely no room for improvement is laughable and dangerous!!

    Second, I’m not sure which organization you are referring to, but I’ve heard Jenny speak on a number of occasions and watched numerous interviews. What she actually says is to split up the MMR. I know, you’ve gone and changed her statements to accommodate YOUR VERSION OF THE TRUTH. And again, why? What’s it to you? Why is insisting that our government do their job by not giving the CDC and PHARMA a free pass so wrong? Why should I, or anyone for that matter, not have the right to choose single dose vaccines, one at a time? Why can I not insist on rigorous safety testing for vaccines given IN COMBINATION? Why can I not refuse administration of Hep. B to my child on the day of birth when I’ve already tested negative for it during said pregnancy? Gee, the last time I checked, this was the United States of America, a democracy, where I have rights as a citizen and a parent. But when it comes to immunizations, our system is nothing short of tyranny!

    FYI – “TOO MANY, TOO SOON” was the theme. The content of what that means was within the individual speeches, our meetings with our respective legislators, and our thousands of letters, faxes, and emails to Congress. Don’t you just love the American way??

  35. Lin June 19, 2008 at 01:51 #

    Pitiful how you always have to result to flaming, Matt. You are beyond unkind. Name calling, bigotry, attempts of belittlement are the essence of your substance. So sad. This is precisely why I continue to battle on every front for my child.

  36. Lin June 19, 2008 at 02:41 #

    Sullivan-
    Wasn’t responding to you but, whatever.

    Love how you guys tag team. It’s as if you go on a feeding frenzy.

    Orac is wrong. I’d like to see the evidence and studies. Combination vacs may be studied, but not combos given in conjunction with combinations of other vaccinations, which is common practice.

    Jenny McCarthy is actually the spokesperson for TACA and on the board of GR. She is affiliated with numerous autism orgs – FYI.

    How recently have you tried refusing a vaccine for a child? Any personal experience? What gives you credibility on the subject?

    Not a one of you has answered me this question which I’ve asked repeatedly…why do you care and what’s it to you? Like it or not, I should have a choice in raising my own child.

    I truly do not get you people!

  37. Lin June 19, 2008 at 02:55 #

    To get back to the original inaccuracy of this entire blog – please study the video yourself, and you tell me there were only 500 to 1,000 people there. Then tell me again about credibility, please.

    http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/
    http://gallery.mac.com/wendy.fournier#100040

    If you weren’t so busy defending your ridiculous claims, perhaps you would have had the time or been able to find some actual footage and supportive photos yourself.

  38. Lin June 19, 2008 at 03:30 #

    Or…you could just take a yittle looksie here and decide the actual number of attendees for yourself….

    http://www.talkaboutcuringautism.org/jenny/dc-rally/green-our-vaccines-rally-recap.htm

  39. HCN June 19, 2008 at 03:33 #

    Lin said “FYI – “TOO MANY, TOO SOON” was the theme”

    Okay, which vaccines of the following do you plan to eliminate from the first year of a babies life (also give some documentation as to why this vaccine is unnecessary):

    Pertussis
    diphtheria
    tetanus
    Haemophilus influenzae type b
    polio
    HepB
    Pneumococcal

    These are the ones that I see on this list for children under 12 months old. It is also only a recommended schedule. I don’t recall any of my kids getting the rotavirus vaccine (actually one got the actual disease, which made him dehydrated enough to have seizure and end up in the hospital):
    http://cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/downloads/child/2008/08_0-6yrs_schedule_pr.pdf

    Now after the first year is the when the following are given, just tell us which ones are unnecessary and why (actual scientific documentation would be needed, something indexed at PubMed):

    measles
    mumps
    rubella
    varicella
    HepA

    I really want to know what science is being used for the rally cry of “too many to soon”. So if you could provide us with the actual proposed schedule would be, and what studies have been performed to come up with that schedule, it would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you.

  40. Ms. Clark June 19, 2008 at 03:33 #

    The problem is that the mercury parents have a habit of lying about the amount of people who show up at their rallies. This time they over estimated by about 8 times or maybe 10 times. You can tell by looking at the television coverage how many people were there. It might have hit 2,000 but that includes lots of kids.

    The need to inflate the number of attendees fits with the general disregard for reality that was apparent among the rally goers. Like one mom had a fraudulent mail order urine heavy metals lab result blown up to about 3 feet by 2 1/2 feet. It was supposed to prove her kid was “mercury toxic” but it proves nothing of the sort. It says on the bottom of those lab tests that they are not to compare their standards with provoked samples or words to that effect.

    And real toxicologists don’t use the funky mail order labs that the mercury parents use.

    You people are desperate. I get that. You are full of hate and rage at “Big Gummint” and “Big Pharma” It makes you kind of pitiful.

    It doesn’t make you right.

    Generation rescue recommends NO MMR vaccines. I heard Jenny say that if she had a baby it would get NO vaccines, but you are saying that she says that the MMR should be spread out? Hmmm. I doubt she said that.

  41. Lin June 19, 2008 at 04:07 #

    Tag, Ms. Clark, you’re it!

    Gees…what on earth has made you so incredibly disagreeable (to put it nicely).

    You are an authority because why and your credentials??

    You people like to hear yourself talk big is what I think.

    But, I’ll again do the work for you. I’m beginning to think you’re all simply incompetent.

    Here is the link. Listen closely now….no more half truths or words in the mouth on behalf of us…the desperate parents, please. We’ve simply enough to contend without your self-serving, self-indulging, self-gratifying falsehoods. But, thanks for your ill-intentions, complete lack of empathy or support!

    http://www.etonline.com/news/2008/06/62338/index.html

    In case you miss it due to selective hearing…”MMR should be separated,” is what Jenny says!

  42. Lin June 19, 2008 at 04:15 #

    HCN ~

    HELLO???? Aren’t any of you listening?

    I repeat, when it stopped being the parent’s choice and right to choose, it became tyranny.

    Ever tried to get a child into school or daycare without mandated vaccines? Ever tried to refuse any of the “too many” vaccines? If you had, you’d know and understand!

    Try personal experience for a change rather the perpetual bantering.

    Very sorry to hear about your child’s hospitalization. Truly, I am.

  43. Ms. Clark June 19, 2008 at 04:46 #

    Lin deary, it’s not tag team when you show up on a blog and different people respond to you. That’s how blogs work. I’m sorry that you were under the impression that you got to pick one person and have that one only respond to you.

    So Generation Rescue says children should never get any measles mumps or rubella vaccines, alone or in any combination. But their spokesmodel, the bunny, says she would separate them from her child by say, miles… as in her child would get none of them, together or in combo. So that makes the bunny, what? Confused? Deceptive?

    There is no reason. No reason on earth to “separate” them and there’s no reason to follow the Generation Rescue recommended schedule which allows for no measles, mumps or rubella vaccines.

    Keep in mind that the leader of GR has a baby that he said might never get any vaccines, except possibly the rubella vaccine as a young adult. What’s that about? More “separating” the vaccines from kids, entirely?

    There is no reason to fear the current schedule. So far, the majority of parents seem to think that it’s a case of bored, entitled and bizarre fear mongers who are trying to terrify people away from vaccines.

    Thanks for sharing the websites though. Lots of misinformation packed into such a little space!

  44. It's not a game of tag June 19, 2008 at 05:03 #

    Perhaps you might want to read what Ms. McCarthy and Jim Carrey wrote for CNN:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/02/mccarthy.autsimtreatment/index.html

    Even if the CDC is not convinced of a link between vaccines and autism, changing the vaccine schedule should be seriously considered as a precautionary measure. (If you would like to see some ideas for alternative schedules, check out http://generationrescue..org

    Now, check out the “favorite” vaccine schedule on the GR website

    http://www.generationrescue.org/vaccines.htm

    Check schedule #1, “listen to the doctor (our favorite).

    No MMR coverage at all. None.

    That is not a good “precautionary measure” in my mind.

    The next paragraph (the conclusion to the piece) ends with “…we do believe there is strong evidence to suggest that some of the ingredients may be hazardous and that our children are being given too many, too soon!”

    Sorry, I don’t think of MMR as one of the “too many”. And, since they don’t include it AT ALL in their favorite alternative schedule, the “too soon” part is bunk.

  45. HCN June 19, 2008 at 05:04 #

    Actually I have been reading. I just want to know what the revised schedule is, and the studies that support it. That is all.

    Oh, since my seizure kid never got the pertussis vaccine, I know that the vaccines are NOT mandated. Also, I live in a state where it is easy to opt out of the vaccines. Which is one reason why there was a pertussis epidemic when my oldest health impaired kid was an infant. So that statement about mandated vaccines and and what-not is just silly:
    http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/296/14/1757?

    Just answer the question: Which vaccines are the “Green the Vaccine” people saying need to be delayed, eliminated and what is the science behind their decisions. I am particularly curious about the measles, rubella and mumps (which is not given until a child is over a year old, and were major causes of children becomeing deaf, blind, mentally retarded, oh and dead).

    Thank you in advance for answering the question.

  46. Lin June 19, 2008 at 05:19 #

    Ms. Clark,

    Please enlighten me, exactly how long does it take for someone to become so cold, calloused and empty? And so proudly so, I might add!

    It is so sad that you also have to resort to bullying, belittling tactics. You are just plain mean spirited. It is obvious why you are so well like here.

    You people and your selective listening…Jenny is the spokesperson for TACA NOT GR!! What don’t you get about that? My, when you guys (and gals) get stuck on something, you REALLY get stuck!! Funny, my son is exactly that same way. So hard to un-do anything he’s perceived, correctly or incorrectly. Again, why I continue to fight on all fronts for him with every essence of my being….

    Okay, for the last time…if you are indeed able to listen objectionable and understand….parents should have the freedom of choice. This is America!

    As for the links, I get it that is too much work to look for yourself. It is so much easier to repeat after one another…same shit, different day!

    “If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny.” Thomas Jefferson

  47. Again and again June 19, 2008 at 05:36 #

    Okay, for the last time…if you are indeed able to listen objectionable and understand….parents should have the freedom of choice. This is America!

    If we were on a different blog and I were asking, “How do I avoid vaccines”, why do I think you would be able to point me to the exact information for my state on how to get an exemption?

    You people and your selective listening…Jenny is the spokesperson for TACA NOT GR!! What don’t you get about that?

    Have you ever looked at the main page for GR? Upper right hand corner–do you see the picture of Jenny McCarthy? Did you notice that she’s a board member for the organization?

    She represents GR. What don’t you get about that? She tells people to go to the GR website to look for alternative vaccine schedules. What don’t you get about that. The favorite vaccine schedule that is on the GR site doesn’t include MMR.

    I won’t follow that last with the “what don’t you get about that” The very fact that you are struggling against Jenny’s link to that schedule tells us all that you think it damaging to her reputation. The reason for that, most likely, is that you likely see it as irresponsible to recommend people avoid MMR.

    Perhaps you have other reasons. That would be unfortunate, because it is irresponsible for an organization (GR) and, in my opinion, public figures like Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey to be recommending people avoid vaccines for such serious diseases.

  48. Again and again June 19, 2008 at 05:40 #

    Please enlighten me, exactly how long does it take for someone to become so cold, calloused and empty? And so proudly so, I might add!

    Do you see how the above could be considered to be bullying and belittling? Because, it really looks like it. Making your next statement:

    It is so sad that you also have to resort to bullying, belittling tactics. You are just plain mean spirited. It is obvious why you are so well like here.

    Rather ironic, wouldn’t you say?

    Tell you what. Put this all to rest. Answer the question that neither Jim nor Jenny were prepared to answer: which vaccines can we do without (the ‘too many’ question).

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