If you do a Google search for SafeMinds the link you get says “SafeMinds Autism Mercury Thimerosal”. SafeMinds considers itself to be a part of the “Autism Collaboration” (which, as far as I can tell, is the group that is supporting Andrew Wakefield now that he has lost his job with Thoughful House). A member of SafeMinds holds a chair on the Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee.
So I think it safe to say that they pitch themselves as an autism charity. If you were to donate, say, $1,560, would you expect some or all of that money to go towards something that might help the autism community?
Well, if you had paid for the the Pass the Popcorn but HOLD THE MERCURY! Safeminds Theatre PSA Campaign that SafeMinds recently put on, you would be mistaken. The campaign was an effort to raise money to put this public service announcement (PSA) into theaters this week.
You can find details, where else, on the Age of Autism blog. If you go there, you will see that three people donated at the $1,560 level, each such donation would put the PSA on 25 screens all week in New York or Los Angeles. Many others donated at lower levels.
The Age of Autism had another fund-raiser recently. That story was met with skepticism even though it was, I have been told, supported by Andrew Wakefield himself. The fundraiser was for legal aide for an autism family. So far, about $1800: enough to put the PSA on a little more than 25 screens. None of the prominent “editors” of the Age of Autism blog came forward in support.
SafeMinds. Age of Autism. At least you know what their priorities are. Autism isn’t number 1, vaccines are.
One might respond that to SafeMinds (and Age of Autism), vaccines and autism are not separate issues. They still subscribe to the idea that thimerosal in vaccines caused an autism epidemic. That by preventing thimerosal containing vaccines being given to infants and pregnant women is, in their view, preventing autism.
To that I answer: why spend money putting the PSA on screens in Los Angeles? In 2006, California law prohibited administering thimerosal containing vaccines to children under 3 and to women who are pregnant. Yeah, they are warning pregnant women and parents of young children against—something they aren’t going to get anyway. But that doesn’t stop SafeMinds from putting an image of a syringe next to big puddles of mercury in front of families.
addendum: it appears that at least one theater chain said no to the PSA.
Left Brain Right Brain 
Well, there’s even less reason to believe that now:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21070699
I don’t suppose that people who have failed to be convinced by the evidence that discontinuing thimerosal vaccines has not decreased the apparent prevalence of ASD in several countries, that there is no dose-response relationship between thimerosal exposure and ASD, and that a large case-control study shows that the risk of ASD is not related to thimerosal exposure will be swayed by yet more evidence. Still, it’s now rather difficult to argue that the reason that we didn’t see a drop in ASD in California following a dramatic reduction in thimerosal exposure [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18180424] was because somehow not quite enough time had elapsed for the difference to become manifest; a preliminary report of a new study of a national birth cohort spanning the elimination of thimerosal-containing vaccines in Finland similarly damns the thimerosal-is-responsible-for-an-epidemic-of-autism hypothesis. Will someone at SafeMinds or AoA eventually be able to understand the evidence, or can we expect to hear even more about mercury plumes from China and dental amalgams as they attempt to resuscitate their moribund hypothesis?
I am of an independent mind on these issues and find this advert too simplistic by far.
Despite the prohibition of mercury vaccines in California it is a paper tiger and it would be impossible to imagine that some flu vaccines given to the mother and unborn child did not have mercury in them. France has only ever had mercury in two vaccines and the flu vaccines today nearly all have mercury. We have very short memories so to bring up the mercury when you claim it isn’t there is very appropriate given that in all probability the law is being broken today in California with total and complete protection from any legal comeback.
Mercury free does not mean no mercury but just that most has been removed. To remove all is a chemical impossibility.
My own reading of research is that ANY vaccine given before a certain age is potentially dangerous for long term health to too many and the ban before age two years in Japan was sensible.
In both France and Japan the date of the first vaccines has been put back and in France, one vaccine only with just the DPT being necessary for school entry at 5 years.
I note the vaccine industry claim millions of lives saved every year from their vaccines. This is obvious humbug as deaths dropped by 99 per cent for nearly every vaccine preventable illness.
TB is causing more deaths today in 2010 USA – more than a thousand a year – with a vaccine in use for decades which is not used as it is given to teenagers and adults and not to unsuspecting infants young enough not to shout about the consequences.
In 2009 France more than 95 per cent of adults refused the flu vaccine – one measly jab – but 80 per cent will give their infant any and everything going in the vaccine world to their infants.
And the reason for the drop was vaccination. You’ve just shot down your own argument.
I can’t believe they’d show that image of a syringe with mercury puddles around it. Scratch that, I can believe it. But it still shocks me.
They know full well that people are going to see that and freak out about actual liquid metal being injected into them and it’ll cause panic, fear, hatred…
They’re not out to keep anyone safe. They’re out to incite hatred. They’re out to scare people.
They’re purposely misleading people, misinforming people and manipulating people for their own agenda.
Way to be the bigger man.
Hi Julian
The quote is there that vaccines save millions of lives every year.
My quote was to question this as an accurate statement for this would mean that deaths before vaccines would be pandemic every year and we know of the plague that was pandemic but was hundreds of years ago and for a certain time only.
Today we do not suffer from plague or it is not publicised much and we do not normally inject people against the plague.
Can you help me out with the deaths by the million being saved by vaccines.
We do have a million dead modern children after vaccines and no proper explanation over the past 40 years worldwide.
The human body has survived for a long time and the reliance on vaccines may in the long term be bad for us with some people but not me yet blaming autism and neurological illness on the vaccines received by their parents.
Helping sick people get well is a good thing but to help healthy people stay healthy and then explain away 1 SIDS in 500, 1 autism in 50 and 1 neurology child in 3 is stretching belief when it seems my ancestors with few exceptions had long healthy non vaccinated lives; the exception death from cholera which has turned up in haiti a place where previously it had not been seen. Also not normally protected by mass injections even today.
Just watched the video which has been pulled from many of those cinemas due to people from here and other sites objecting.
Can you explain what is wrong with informed knowledge?
My friends get their yearly fix of flu vaccine and when I ask if it had mercury in it they look blank at me.
Last year there was more than 95 per cent refusal of the H1N1 vaccine as the TV companies did tell the public once that it had mercury compounds and squalene in them.
Squalene subject to verification by experts here is now in 2010 ILLEGAL in USA vaccines.
Also from experts here mercury is out of vaccines as per the jibe on looking for a mercury vaccine back in 2001.
Evidently with mercury and squalene the vaccine companies class France as a third world country?
@Fryer:
There’s nothing wrong with it, and in fact, there’s nothing wrong with people asking for thimerosal-free vaccines if they want to.
What’s wrong is the fear-mongering.
John Fryer:
There is still plague. It exists in the USA and elsewhere. It is spread by fleas from rodents, controlling the vectors can control the disease.
Please document this in detail. Until then we will assume you just made it up. Just like the rest of your rant.
Easily tens of millions of lives saved per year by vaccines.
It was vaccines that eliminated smallpox. Smallpox would kill ~25% of unvaccinated individuals the first time they were exposed. Without vaccines, smallpox would easily have killed a billion people that are alive today. A billion people in 40 years is 25 million people a year.
Some statistics for Mr. Fryer:
From the Measles Initiative Project:
That is 4.3 million in eight years, just from measles. How many more children were spared measles since the 1960s when the first measles vaccine was introduced?
Here is a table that compares the annual USA cases in the 20th century to now for several diseases.
You’ve been told before that vaccines do not cause SIDS. That Japan did stop vaccinating for pertussis, only to start again when babies started to die from pertussis. You have been directed to this review multiple times:
Vaccine. 2007 Jun 21;25(26):4875-9. Epub 2007 Mar 16.
Do immunisations reduce the risk for SIDS? A meta-analysis.
Vennemann MM, Höffgen M, Bajanowski T, Hense HW, Mitchell EA.
You have been told repeatedly that the conclusion says (bolding added): “Immunisations are associated with a halving of the risk of SIDS. There are biological reasons why this association may be causal, but other factors, such as the healthy vaccinee effect, may be important. Immunisations should be part of the SIDS prevention campaigns.”
So why do continue to bring up SIDS as a side effect of vaccines, when the vaccines prevent SIDS?
JFC, there was no squalene in U.S. vaccines and it isn’t ‘illegal’. Easily falsifiable as anything that rolls from your fingertips.
Science Mom,
I believe that Mr. Fryer is comparing France (where squalene is used) to the US.
Mr. Fryer has been busy:
Thanks Sully, this is part of what I was working off of:
Squalene isn’t used in the U.S. (yet) but it certainly isn’t illegal. But he isn’t the most easily understood person.
To science mom
You say:
Squalene isn’t used in the U.S. (yet) but it certainly isn’t illegal. But he isn’t the most easily understood person.
The Gulf War Syndrome has not been explained but France who did not vaccinate had no GWS and England and USA have had excess illness and deaths to their soldiers.
One explanation disputed was the use of squalene in the vaccines.
From what you say above you deny that squalene has been used?
The reason I use the term illegal is because I genuinely thought it wasnt now used in USA vaccines which does fit what you say.
I am here to learn and have an open mind but putting brain destroying mercury in vaccines for the unborn child can only be justified by rewriting known facts on mercury chemistry.
In my life the only such monumental change was the statement that inert gases were inert. in other words to say things dont happen is dangerous. We now know inert gases not only make compounds but they are solid white and stable and in retrospect this fact should have been known to any chemist and the fact it wasnt appreciated shows the fallibility of man.
Chris
We are discussing semantics.
We do not suffer from plague was briefly to explain that the disease which we all know still exists does not today kill off a more than 10 per cent population of the world.
Controlled by use of hygiene, modern living conditions and the breaking of the chain as you say of the parasites in the world that work against the health and well being of man.
Chris
We can be in complete agreement over the benefit of measles vaccines and the numbers globally now saved.
But the deaths in countries with good hygiene and good living conditions is not measured in millions.
About ten people died in England each year before measles vaccines.
The use of single measles reduced the death to zero with no complaints.
The use of multi vaccines has caused problems with at least three varieties withdrawn and some because of known adverse effects not due to the measles component.
To conflate 10 deaths in a population of 60 million to millions of lives saved is bogus.
To replace a safe vaccine by a dangerous vaccine is murder.
to chris
Vaccines do not cause SIDS.
So again it is semantics.
Why did Harry clark die less than 6 hours after his thimerosal vaccines?
No one in the world accepts that SIDS from vaccines is responsible.
But he did get a thimerosal vaccine just six hours before his death from whatever cause.
He was checked at 4.30 and found fit and healthy.
Professor S R Meadow a world vaccine expert said that the vaccine made him LESS likely to die.
Of course we know this world expert LIED in court.
Mr. Fryer suffers from some kind of neurological condition. So if he says something without any kind of reference it is assumed he made it up. It could be because he does not understand what he reads, or because he would not know truth if it bit him on his posterior.
Whatever, no one should believe in what Mr. Fryer writes.
Hi Chris
Yes the vaccine schedule for France looks horrific with 5 vaccines possible at age 8 weeks.
This does not compare with reality in that the person I was judging it on did not get this kind of treatment.
Certainly the reality is a more softly softly approach for many.
The person I know did not have the German measles and neither did many others as there was an outbreak of this here.
Hepatitis B is there but again public opinion is very strongly against this with repeated propaganda about links genuine or not with MS from this vaccine.
However the full treatment of vaccines may explain the numbers of autism and the like here with my immediate neighbour having an autism girl (normally boys) with several other people known to me with children unable to lead normal lives due to neurological illness and some now in their 20’s.
Even the one person on a very limited vaccine schedule has not 100 per cent health in the sense that the teeth are scarred by discoloration from adverse effects of some medical interventions no doubt. Overuse of antibiotics perhaps?
Hi Chris
re
he would not know truth if it bit him on his posterior.
This is meant to be a scientific debate here?
The squalene debate has been effectively suppressed.
A blinded study showed those soldiers with GWS had antibodies to squalene but not those soldiers with no GWS.
However the addition of squalene to vaccines has been denied and this is strange if it is the good thing claimed for it.
In addition lots of people in Europe have been injected with this squalene which is completely harmless.
I do admit to being confused here.
As with all things in this debate the truth lies either on one side or the other, in the middle or more likely it seems no one has a clue what is going on.
Squalene does not seem to be problem juding from its chemical structure and for me the notion of thimerosal causing harm seems much more plausible and we do have world experts in vaccines admitting it is present at 87 times the reference level of concern and then pushing ahead with more of these vaccines in the comfort that it isnt that toxic really. Thereby misunderstanding simple chemical facts.
Mr Fryer: your Gish Gallop is quite impressive. However – the US has NEVER given the BCG vaccine as far back as I am aware of so we don’t have that protection against TB. Also, squalene was not AFAIK in any US vaccines so how could US soldiers with GWS have antibodies from squalene in vaccines?
You really are confused. Why don’t you read peer-reviewed articles THEN post?
The Gulf War Syndrome has not been explained but France who did not vaccinate had no GWS and England and USA have had excess illness and deaths to their soldiers.
One explanation disputed was the use of squalene in the vaccines.
From what you say above you deny that squalene has been used?
Your assertions have been refuted. There was no squalene in U.S. vaccines and the differences in GWS among the different countries can be attributable to other exposures that the French troops did not have. French soldiers do report GWS, just at lower rates than the U.S., U.K. and Australia. You are relying upon a single test that found anti-squalene antibodies but subsequent testing (with more rigorous protocols) failed to find any squalene in tested lots of vaccines. It’s all in an IOM report if you would bother to look.
Illegal has a rather specific connotation and does not mean, ‘not used’. It isn’t illegal in the U.S., it just isn’t currently used.
But have you crossed that point where your brain has fallen out? You are making assertions that simply aren’t true and you don’t even attempt to provide supporting information. You can only make your claims by torturing the known data on mercury toxicity.
Mr. Fryer:
Scientific debate requires a level of evidence. All you bring to the discussion are random statements that have very little basis in reality. It does not take much digging to find real evidence that are exactly the opposite of what you claim (like in the real world vaccines prevent SIDS, and that is not a matter for semantics).
Perhaps I should be more charitable about your very wrong claims. Maybe you did not pull them out of your rear, or you are Fryer the Pathological Liar. You may actually have some neurological disorder that distorts everything you read. Some kind of delusional psychosis. Is that better?
Whatever it is, whenever I see you posting your nonsense I will remind all that it is wrong, and it will remain so until you, Mr. Fryer, actually produce some evidence.
(hint: this folks who post on this blog are from around the globe, cryptic allusions to court cases in the UK are kind of worthless)
to science mom
You say:
You can only make your claims by torturing the known data on mercury toxicity.
Yes but who is torturing our children in USA so 1 in 3 has long term neurological problems? Or what?
On tonights French TV the number of hyperactive children, who have concentration problems etc etc is at 5 per cent.
We took 400 years to show tobacco is harmful.
Uranium once considered a mild toxin
Mercury was not discovered as causing sick children when used as cream for 50 years.
The only people torturing the toxicity data on mercury are retired chemists going back on their work of 40 years earlier.
Chris
You continue to debate in a very unfriendly manner
you say
like in the real world vaccines prevent SIDS, and that is not a matter for semantics
So what does cause SIDS or is it acceptable to not know and deny the action of toxic chemicals which make breathing so difficult some susceptable people die.
We have lots of evidence of toxicity of many chemicals that babies are exposed too.
With changes in diagnosis we can’t be sure the numbers admitted are the real numbers and they may be much higher.
A cause for SIDS is now 40 years overdue.
A cause for autism is 70 years overdue.
Anaphylaxis after repeat vaccines has been known for more than 100 years but we insist not in repeat vaccines but repeating the repeat.
Any scientist of average intelligence can measure the difficulty of breathing after vaccines.
Some nations have shown that autism does not occur in unvaccinated people.
Of course vaccines are absolutely and completely essential and when I got my vaccines they were.
Today we have disputes over minor things like was or was not squalene in USA gulf war vaccines.
But in any event with measured harm found it is strange that all H1N1 vaccines had squalene in them in France.
And it is beyond debate that a year or so before 6 per cent of those involved in a flu trial here in Europe died.
Also a batch for use at this time for people was tested on animals not of necessity but for completeness and killed animals and was withdrawn.
There are glaring gaps in safety none better than a 1999 voluntary demand to eliminate mercury vaccines and the fact that in 2010 mercury is in many peoples vaccines at unacceptable levels.
This debate is not about me or you or whether we are right.
The debate is about stopping sudden death to infants and committing some to a life where they cannot function alone.
and yes some hide or pretend to be damaged and in fact are savants and brainer than you or I could ever hope to be.
Hi Dawn
Ever heard of tobacco science?
Ever heard of vaccine companies using ghost writers?
Ever heard of people reworking data?
Ever realised that acceptable results get published and unacceptable results don’t?
Ever wondered why it is difficult to find who peer reviews papers?
I have received very rude remarks from people like chris who is effectively anonymous and I use a real name and am honest if not always spot on but we are here to learn.
It is very clear that much work is changed and altered and is not open and above board.
It is all very well quoting as Tom Verstraeten did that mercury is a brain improver but it goes against his earlier data and cause progress on finding causes of illness not slow down but head in the wrong direction.
Out of all the carcinogenic and dangerous chemicals known to man we deny harm in the law courts from almost all with the exception of a handful.
To deny the worlds most chemically toxic element is OK for childrens vaccines just typifies the descent to hell people will descend to make money.
Most USA senators get lots of money from lots of firms and they dont get this money to attack those firms.
Hence the word crooked comes to mind.
The worlds best epidemiologist getting 1 500 pounds daily from Monsanto for example.
so how worthwhile is his work. And this is the guy that finally got tobacco a bad name!
Tobacco Science
Mr. Fryer:
Mr. Fryer, you are rambling. One question: do children with autism have pink skin?
There are several review articles on the discovery that mercury teething powders, calomel and other mercury containing nostrums were causing Pink’s Disease. For you education I shall show you the link to a full free online paper: The Puzzle of Pink Disease.
So, yes, it did take fifty years. But there are reasons as are outlined in the conclusions of the paper. One reason being the limitations of the science, and the fact that not every child was affected. Also there was a scarcity of knowledge of what chemicals did early in the twentieth century. I suggest you attempt to read The Poisoner’s Handbook by Deborah Blum (guess what, arsenic used to be used in beauty products!).
And it was not due to “people torturing the toxicity data on mercury are retired chemists going back on their work of 40 years earlier.”
By the way, it also took several years to convince the medical world that pregnant women who get rubella, a very mild disease, causes much harm to the baby. From mild disabilities to death. One reason was because the doctors in the UK were not about to believe medical observations all the way from Australia. Read the book Dangerous Pregnancies by Leslie Reagan.
The difference between finding out mercury harms children, and rubella harms unborn babies to the fact that thimerosal does not cause autism are several large studies done in an era with better international communication, and vastly better understanding of biology, laboratory methods, mathematical models and on and on. Basically the same reason you can sit at your computer in France and have your words read all over the world in few minutes, compared to waiting for postal service using transoceanic ships for transport.
Now here is the paragraph from the above paper that you might be interested in:
Mr. Fryer, you posted more stuff without a reference. Remember it is up to you to prove your claims. Not for us to disprove them.
Hi Chris
Thanks for your reply.
Yes pink skin is not the sign of an autism child.
But any toxicologist can tell you that there are hundreds of enzyme systems and that the actual illness from a toxin is often manifested in different ways.
We are tlaking not of the huge attack on thye heart or kidneys or even damage to the skin but the precise action of tiny amounts of mercury that find their way to the childs brain.
Only possible if there is no blood brain barrier and therefore can be predicted for only babies up to a certain age.
As the descent in age for vaccines got lower the autism suddenly came in and is therefore very plausible.
We know that in the test tube (before you claim in vitro) a hundred per cent destruction of brain cells.
For girls this destruction may be of the order of 1 in 500 showing the stronger sex resisting for the most part this toxic attack.
On the role of squalene – the knowledge base has moved from my 15 year old base so I would be pleased for references on the known absence in gulf war soldiers or even just a few that got special vaccines.
Were the soldiers guinea pigs or not?
And as we know squalene was in use by 1997 where was the safety testing done for I cant find the work say of novartis to prove its safety.
Chris
Your knowledge of pink disease is impressive but if you regard the actual victims of minimata they could easily make you think of autism also.
You also bring up a good point on rubella causing autism. Live viruses for this illness (from MMR) in the area of young women likely to be or get pregnant – any potential for harm here?
It was methylmercury in the Minamata cases. Also the symptoms are nothing like autism. From this review article: “methylmercury exposure began in 1865 describing ataxia, dysarthria, constriction of visual fields, impaired hearing, and sensory disturbance as symptoms of fatal methylmercury poisoning.” and also spasmic convulsions, forgetfulness and mental retardation.
It is not autism (actually there is only one article on Minamata and autism, though it helps to spell it correctly when you are looking). Methymercery poisoning has been misdiagnosed as cerebral palsy.
You are also reminded, again, that:
1) Thimerosal contains ethylmercury, not methylmercury.
2) That the level of ethylmercury in any non-pediatric vaccine is tiny compared to the level of methylmercury in one fish, or a can of tuna.
3) Thimerosal was removed from pediatric vaccines almost ten years ago (which is why research sponsored by SafeMinds since 2001 has required that they add thimerosal to the vaccines).
4) Influenza vaccines are available without thimerosal for children and pregnant women.
The vaccine, MMR, is not given to pregnant women. It is also given to children after age one, and again about about age five. How many girls get pregnant before they are six years old?
Also, there was a rubella epidemic in the 1960s. Was that before or after the rubella vaccine was available? From the CDC Pink Book Rubella Chapter:
Give me the year that the first rubella vaccine was available, with real documentation. Not a rambling excuse.
JFC, do you know how much mercury children were given in teething powder? Each dose was ~55,000 micrograms of mercury. Many children received multiple doses multiple times in their lives.
Many tens of millions of doses were sold per year. Many tens of millions of children received many thousands of times more mercury from teething powders than ever received from vaccines.
Where is the “epidemic” of autism that should have accompanied the mass mercury poisoning of infants with mercury containing teething powders? The mass poisoning that actually killed over 1,000 children from mercury poisoning?
One of the reasons they probably didn’t bother to test thimerosal very carefully when it was first introduced was because there was only ~12 micrograms of mercury per dose. Teething powders had 55,000 micrograms, more than 4,000 times more.
I posted a link to squalene in wikipedia (held up in moderation). All humans synthesize squalene, it is a necessary metabolite in cholesterol and steroid synthesis. There was no squalene in the vaccines given to Gulf War vets. Your hysteria about squalene is from your mindlessly repeating anti-vax talking points.
Mr. Fryer (Mad Chemist) claims:
Leaving aside the vague and nebulous nature of “Gulf War Syndrome” and the even more vague and nebulous epidemiological statistics thereof, let’s look at a few “hard” numbers:
1990 Gulf War troop commitments:
US: 670,000
UK: 43,000
France: 18,000
I’d also be curious to know the source of Mr. Fryer’s claim that the French “did not vaccinate” their troops. I can only assume Mr. Fryer means the anthrax vaccine, assuming that he means anything at all, in which case he might want to re-examine his claims about the UK soldiers. [Note: I do not expect Mr. Fryer to respond with legitimate citations, as he seems incapable of understanding the concept of supporting data.]
Prometheus
John Fryer Chemist: Live viruses for this illness (from MMR) in the area of young women likely to be or get pregnant – any potential for harm here?
Yes – there is very much a potential for harm. This is why women planning to get pregnant are advised to get rubella titers checked. And if they’re low, they’re advised to (1) get vaccinated and (2) – avoid getting pregnant for 3 months after the vaccine.
No one is disputing the potential for harm here.
Hi Prometheus
Looking at hard numbers.
How many of those 670 000 USA soldiers are now dead?
Anecdotal data suggests that it may be one quarter of them.
Thats death at under 40 years of age in a world where we are living longer.
Of course the Gulf War Syndrome is nebulous. If soldiers are treated by their paymasters as guinea pigs, exposed to diazinon and the like you can expect all kinds of aches, pains, loss of memory and yes death from chemical toxins too.
From my own nebulous memory the use of squalene was proclaimed as the biggest breakthrough in vaccine technology ever.
Suddenly not only has USA gone quiet but it seems history is being rewritten and everyone here says squalene was NEVER used on USA people, military or otherwise.
In Europe it has beein used on millions of old people no longer working (no longer needed?) and if half of what is true about squalene comes to pass then the health of Europeans injected with this oil will be ruined by 2020 when we will clearly see that squalene as already shown has NO PLACe in our vaccines.
To chemmomo
You sidestep my reasoning.
Rubella illness even if it is not clinical illness can cause autism.
Live viruses can cause the illness in that person or close contacts.
Ergo, if people have live rubella in them from vaccines and they subclinically affect a pregnant mother friend.
What happens next?
To prometheus
even more vague and nebulous epidemiological statistics thereof
Isn’t this at the heart of everything.
Every time we find no harm from medical interventions it is classed as proven. No harm from thimerosal, no harm from squalene.
When it comes to how many autism children over past years, how many gulf war deaths and illness all of a sudden no one knows and for SIDS even we class them as murder, SBS, or some viral cause.
Harry Clark dead six hours after his mercury vaccine and the cause first murder and then an infection. Since when does a healthy boy die suddenly from infections like this?
So the only explanation for Harry’s death and a million others is WE DONT KNOW.
This is not good enough.
If this is our knowledge state then how can bloggers like you anecdotal say anything that means anything.
I want ANSWERS. what does cause autism.
Not what doesnt cause autism.
And to say that the worlds most chemically toxic element is no problem today to inject into him via the pregnant mom is just OBSCENE.
I mean do people here want to find causes or do they want to defend anything and everything done to their child.
I repeat my vaccines for every conceivable ill was given to me with my express consent not pumped into me 9 at a time when I was a helpless baby that couldnt talk.
There may be occasions where this is necessary but to give ALL vaccines in a DO or DIE way has one result which is not nebulous.
The health of the worlds greatest nation has fallen from top place to bottom place in 20 years among first world countries.
Is this nebulous too?
helps to spell it correctly when you are looking). Methymercery
Yesq good spelling is bonus isnt it.
So giving an unborn child a full blown mercury injection in 2010 is what?
I dont know or cant guess what was at the back of the demand for mercury vaccines in 2001 but at 100 pounds or more a vaccine for some vaccines it may be a cheapskate way to avoid making more money for the vaccine companies.
We know that mercury vaccines in 2010 are still being deployed around the world so in 2010 with help from vaccine makers we could still get supplies that were being asked for in 2001.
We need an accountability of all materials used in vaccines not secrets, cover ups and denials.
Methylmercury is present in thimerosal surprised? It is an impurity.
Even so ethyl mercury is actually the more dangerous of the two in its ability to get into the brain.
And yes mercury free vaccines are available are more expensive and in view of the fact that most people including me were unaware of mercury vaccines in 1997 or years before or after, today many doctors are still not aware that there are two sorts.
If they were they would be in a dilemma. Do you give a non toxic vaccine to everybody or do you give vaccines known to be toxic even if you diluted them 200 fold.
Perhaps some doctors might be able to give this mercury vaccine as a practioner but an expert doctor might just insist EVERYONE has the same vaccine good or bad.
At the moment there are too many BAD vaccines about.
Will those 22 million with squalene injections pay for silence, complicity and cover up if they get ill and will they be able to get justice in a court of law?
1000 plus UK claimants for organophosphate illness – thrown out of court after 11 years for ABUSE of the law.
Hundreds of MMR claimants lose their battle for harm caused because the cost of research was too much. Not even the distinction of a judge saying you are talking through your hat, your child is ill because your genes are BAD not a vaccine.
Squalene…
found in cosmetics, girl scout cookies (oh my!), the human body….
Not found in the vaccines given to soldiers with gulf war syndrome.
Now, for the big point–not implicated in autism.
So, why are we discussing it here?
John Fryer Chemist:
The plural of anecdote is not data. Provide proof of your claim.
So you’re claiming that people can get a transmissible form of Rubella from the vaccination. Evidence?
It is impossible to prove a negative in science. You can’t prove that I don’t have an invisible fire-breathing dragon in my garden. We have looked at thimerosal and squalene thoroughly. No evidence of harm. Until hard evidence of harm is found, we have to view it as safe.
The infection could have occurred before the vaccination. You are insinuating that the vaccination caused the infection. Correlation!= Causation.
Then why are you banging on about vaccination when it isn’t a cause of autism?
The dose makes the poison. If something has a noticeably toxic effect at, say 50mg, then it would be totally lethal at 10g. You are not making any sense.
Qualify your statement. What is a bad vaccine?
At least 25 research projects, not counting those done by Wakefield and his associates, looked at the MMR-Autism link. The research was done and no link was found. Lastly, which judge said that genes were responsible for Autism? And I want a proper cite.
Ah, I see that Mr Fryer is still on his Gish Gallop.
Yes, Mr Fryer, I have heard of tobacco science. I can also show you articles from the 1800s, printed in childrens’ books, that speak about smoking causing health issues and cancer. Independent scientists studied and printed reports about the dangers of tobacco; they were not “suppressed”, however, the tobacco industry had a lot more money and were able to get their (mis)information out to the public. I can show you nursing and medical journals from the 1800s and 1900s that speak about the problems tobacco leads to. So yes, we know that the PUBLIC can be mislead. But the research and the information was not suppressed.
The health issues of the Japanese at Minamata were NOTHING like autism. You are very wrong there, and that has been pointed out to you before. Please compare the DSM-IV list of autism signs to the article on Minamata disease and tell me all the ones that are identical.
Again, you must be a very poor chemist if you don’t understand both that the dose makes the poison AND that ethyl mercury and methymercury are 2 very different items, AND they are processed very differently by the body. As a chemist, you should be able to give me the half-life of both. Please do so.
Hi Dawn
lots of good information coming.
Yes harm from tobacco known about in the 1800″s so correct.
And back to the King of england in 1600 and whatever who actually from memory talked of cancer from tobacco.
So not suppressed for the first 400 years until you move to the 1950’s and after when like for autism the proof of harm was impossible to achieve.
It is tobacco science of modern times that is suppressing information.
I have lost his name but back in the 1930’s there was a regulator with a huge library and details of many chemicals and the harm they caused.
This library was disbanded and sent to all corners of the USA and a lot of his work was lost to science.
Today out of thousands of dodgy chemicals barely a handful are noted as carcinogenic.
A total disgrace to the human race.
ethyl and methyl mercury are not so different and the toxicity of both is enormous at low concentrations.
further there is impurity of methyl with the thimerosal.
and finally none are actually pure ethyl or pure methylmercury but are other more complex compounds
and further eating and injecting are vastly more different than any supposed difference of ethyl and methyl mercury compounds.
if you follow the history the first preparation of ethyl mercury was followed by death to all those making it;
JFC, do you have something coherent to say that you can articulate in a coherent way and/or that actually corresponds with reality?
Orally delivered methyl mercury is absorbed faster and produces higher levels of blood mercury and brain mercury than does injected thimerosal. The Burbacher study on monkeys clearly showed that. It also clearly showed that the mercury in thimerosal is either excreted, or degraded to inorganic mercury quite rapidly (weeks). Compare figure 2 (oral methyl mercury) with figure 5 (injected thimerosal) total mercury in blood. Compare figure 4 (oral methyl mercury) with figure 7 (injected thimerosal) organic and inorganic mercury in brain. The mercury left in the brain after the same dose of mercury as injected thimerosal is 1/10 the level after oral methyl mercury.
Any effect of the mercury from vaccines that persists after weeks can only be due to residual inorganic mercury. If inorganic mercury from vaccines is causing problems, then inorganic mercury from teething powders should cause the same problems at the same dose. What effect is to be expected from inorganic mercury from teething powders at a 4,000 times higher dose?
Yes, methyl mercury is extremely toxic. There was the tragic case of a heavy metals researcher who accidentally exposed herself to a lethal dose of methyl mercury by spilling some on her gloved hand. Even though she had a lethal body burden, and would eventually die from mercury poisoning, she had no symptoms for 5 months. It is estimated that she was exposed to ~1,344,000 micrograms, about 100,000 times the amount of mercury in a vaccine. How does a dose that is ultimately fatal produce no symptoms for 5 months but a dose that is 0.00001 as large causes death in hours? Methyl mercury impurities present at even lower levels? You are not deluding anyone but yourself.
Repeating anti-vax talking points that are disconnected from reality isn’t convincing anyone here about the dangers of mercury, they are only illustrating how disconnected from reality the anti-vax position actually is. Explain the real data in the literature, don’t just make stuff up and try to BS us with your lies.
Nope.
That’s pretty stupid, particularly coming from an alleged chemist.
daedelus
again sadly anonymous name hiding your name perhaps like hiding the fact that thimerosal is a neurotoxin.
Or do you wish to lie and say it isnt a neurotoxin?
Autism is caused by something attacking the brain and mercury compounds are one class that fit the bill.
Argue as much as you like about ethyl or methyl forms. All are dangerous and the safest forms are those reacting with sulphur and selenium.
There is too much mercury around from mans activities over hundreds of years.
To add to that with mercury vaccines is plain stupid.
I objetc to the anti vaccine jibe for you do not knw if I am anti vaccine.
Removing a deliberately added neuro damaging chemical to a perfectly safe vaccine is tantamount to assassination.
I am trying to pin down sensible causes for autism et al and not get in spurious arguments with people who have one view they wont alter.
Everyone in the vaccine world in 1999 or so were first disbelievers for the main that mercury would be in vaccines.
Tell your chemist friend he is misinformed.
note none of the insults here that reflect mentalities of those that issue them and not those they are directed against.
They then agreed it would be good to remove mercury and they made a fist of it.
today they want to bring back mercury and we see this with mercury vaccines for the unborn child. NOT GOOD for them.
The disappearance of mercury in the blood is not the same as disappearance from the body.
It is certain that mercury is retained in the body as those that get challenged release dangerous amounts of mercury. Hence why sometimes it is best to leave well alone.
Foodstuffs with sulphur may be good for us in more ways than we realise and garlic may help get rid of mercury and is a better bet for those without thousands of dollars for expensive treatments.
And this brings us back to vaccines. Why take 2 or 3 repeat vaccines and why give them so early and why insist in 2010 to give mercury to the unborn child.
I cant help thinking that people here and elsewhere on both sides have much ignorance as well as much knowledge.
Burbacher used here to get a point across but normally rejected as obsenely bad work as it put th eblame squarely in the court of mercury.
If mercury is out for you do you have another brain destroyed candidate chemical; I had one before finding mercury in vaccines and that was the organophosphates which have caused many health problems to man and animals with all problems denied by those that insist today we take now their mercury / squalene improved brain and body destroyers instead.
Which means also to get any result you want from epidemiology you just put in false controls where you know they have been damaged already.
The OP trick was to take people at deaths door and compare to those in th eoffices who had the same exposure and same biochemistry and hey presto you find those at deaths door are just MALINGERING.
A trick perfected by Sir Dichard Doll and Professor Simon Wellesley et al.
Exactly sullivan we are in agreement the harm from squalene is almost certainly breakdown of joints etc causing premature old age.
Important as it has been safely injected into 22 million people.
Is it or was it in vaccines for the gulf war. Depends on who you believe.
Just made a list of some past catastrophes not complete as I forgot aspartame but looking at a wider picture gives you an idea of harm done and the stepe taken to hide or expose the truth depending on your position, knowledge et al.
Some past catastrophes covered up or those who knew destroyed:
1951 a town in France bombarded with neurotoxic chemical and the maker of that neurotoxic chemical asked to investigate. Blamed on bad food. Death to originator in New York a few years later probably to keep him quiet?
Minimata poisoning 1950’s blamed first on cadmium then mercury metal pollution changed by bacteria to a more dangerous and neurotoxic form of mercury. Harm denied by government and even today of most of those harmed. One person in ten that asked to be considered as injured were diagnosed as such.
The Royal Free hospital poisoning 1950’s Blamed on mass hysteria and not neurotoxic organophosphorus poisoning. The OP involved pulled from the market a few years later.
Thalidomide effectively the only example of a true cause being found swiftly with the finder effectively destroyed in less than two years. Thalidomide is a neurotoxic chemical like OP’s and organomercury and causes autism as well as preventing normal development of arms and legs. Thalidomide makes so much money it is still in use today.
SIDS blamed on not knowing or sleeping wrongly rather than neurotoxic organophosphorus poisoning. OP’s in clothing and bedding removed quietly. Result: OP’s used more today than ever in our homes.
The Toxic Lady – Gloria Ramirez 1994 blamed falsely on DMSA and not neurotoxic organophosphorus poisoning. Quite why a one off death should be excluded from an obvious exposure is unclear.
The mad cow disease in 1980′ and 1990’s blamed on eating bad food and not neurotoxic organophopshorus poisoning or neurotoxic organomercury poisoning. The correlation broken by inventing a farm without OP or organomercury exposures. A whistle blower indemnity shown to be worhtless for Richard Lacey who was a hero in Europe and losing his university job in England
Camelford aluminium poisoning 1988 blamed as Mass Hysteria and not neurotoxic alumnium poisoning. The time to illness for some cases more than 6 years showing clearly the fallacy and impracticality of even two year testing although typically this is cut down to a few days or even instantaneous problems only.
Gulf War Syndrome blamed on Mass Hysteria and not neurotoxic mercury in vaccines or neurotoxic organophospates such as diazinon. My own prediction to the government of such exposure denied only later to be found that the exposure to OP’s was real.
Autism children 1990’s and still rising but we don’t know why and it is not neurotoxic organomercury additions to safe unadulterated vaccines. European countries coming up with autism for vaccinated children with non vaccinated children with autism not identified.
Harm from GMO crops exposed by researcher on Monday and lost his job by Wednesday after being congratulated for his TV presentation of GMO danger on the Monday. Today with a ban on growing in France we see millions of tons of GMO coming into France for us to eat directly or indirectly. Soya coming to France more than 98 per cent GMO with alteration that makes any animal that eats it bleed to death.
Cover ups in numbers: autism, epilepsy and many lesser complaints serve to dilute the harm with autism represetning the tip of an illness iceberg for the new born child. Autism represents 4 per cent of all neurological illnesses in infants.
All of these have government or industry INNOCENT explanations.
All this means is that the next catstrophe will also be innocently explained.
Autism is just one illness current with so much disinformation not least by anonymous or semi anonymous people with something to hide or fear from who knows what where or why perhaps?
When we get a sensible explanation perhaps we will stop more autism children and perhaps sanity will return to science, but I am not holding my breath.
“Exactly sullivan we are in agreement the harm from squalene is almost certainly breakdown of joints etc causing premature old age.”
John Fryer,
did you honestly misunderstand what I wrote, or are you purposely changing the meaning?
One of my points is that you are far from being on-topic. Your last post only reinforces that.
Oh, good grief. That is not even wrong.
Mr. Fryer is just doing a stream of consciousness typing of his delusions. Consider each and every statement from him false, unless he does produce some kind of evidence. Which he will not do.
Mr. Fryer, you need some serious help. Please go to the nearest outpatient psychiatric facility and request an evaluation.