If you do a Google search for SafeMinds the link you get says “SafeMinds Autism Mercury Thimerosal”. SafeMinds considers itself to be a part of the “Autism Collaboration” (which, as far as I can tell, is the group that is supporting Andrew Wakefield now that he has lost his job with Thoughful House). A member of SafeMinds holds a chair on the Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee.
So I think it safe to say that they pitch themselves as an autism charity. If you were to donate, say, $1,560, would you expect some or all of that money to go towards something that might help the autism community?
Well, if you had paid for the the Pass the Popcorn but HOLD THE MERCURY! Safeminds Theatre PSA Campaign that SafeMinds recently put on, you would be mistaken. The campaign was an effort to raise money to put this public service announcement (PSA) into theaters this week.
You can find details, where else, on the Age of Autism blog. If you go there, you will see that three people donated at the $1,560 level, each such donation would put the PSA on 25 screens all week in New York or Los Angeles. Many others donated at lower levels.
The Age of Autism had another fund-raiser recently. That story was met with skepticism even though it was, I have been told, supported by Andrew Wakefield himself. The fundraiser was for legal aide for an autism family. So far, about $1800: enough to put the PSA on a little more than 25 screens. None of the prominent “editors” of the Age of Autism blog came forward in support.
SafeMinds. Age of Autism. At least you know what their priorities are. Autism isn’t number 1, vaccines are.
One might respond that to SafeMinds (and Age of Autism), vaccines and autism are not separate issues. They still subscribe to the idea that thimerosal in vaccines caused an autism epidemic. That by preventing thimerosal containing vaccines being given to infants and pregnant women is, in their view, preventing autism.
To that I answer: why spend money putting the PSA on screens in Los Angeles? In 2006, California law prohibited administering thimerosal containing vaccines to children under 3 and to women who are pregnant. Yeah, they are warning pregnant women and parents of young children against—something they aren’t going to get anyway. But that doesn’t stop SafeMinds from putting an image of a syringe next to big puddles of mercury in front of families.
addendum: it appears that at least one theater chain said no to the PSA.
Left Brain Right Brain 
I know I shouldn’t feed the troll but…
The symptoms of mercury poisoning do not match autism. This was looked at in Vaccine Court and the “Mercury-causes-Autism” hypothesis was rejected.
As much as I’d like to take my own advice and not argue with ignorant people, I have to take issue with all of what Mr. Fryer is claiming. Since there isn’t space to address all of his errors (assume anything he claims is in error and you won’t be more than 1% wrong), I’ll pick one that others haven’t already debunked:
As a chemist – and, based on his writings, a very poor chemist – Mr. Fryer may not be aware that “mad cow disease” (bovine spongiform encephalopathy – BSE) has been definitively shown to be caused by a prion. Not organophosphates. Not organomercury compounds.
If Mr. Fryer wants to provide some (any?) data showing that all of the research into BSE is wrong and his eccentric beliefs are correct, I would welcome the opportunity. Based on prior performance, however, I expect Mr. Fryer to ignore my request for corroborating data, most likely because he has none.
Prometheus
Hi Julian
One person not frightened to use his own name. Felicitations. Mercury posioning does not match for autism, the court says so. Wow, wow and wow. Imagine them to say the opposite. What would happen to the gold in Fort Knox? there wouldnt be enough to pay for the harm done by mercury to children and to anything and everything else including destroying the planet.
No seriously mercury was known by ancients 3 thousand years ago to take away the mind.
You do need to examine politics alongside science here to make sense of things.
A friend of mine was on that organophosphate debacle with the UK govt and he was one of the 11 that carried on to the bitter end to be told he was abusing the legal process. go back to your wheel chair and die in polite argot.
In China one musician who was not directly exposed to a whiff of diazinon got two million pounds for the harm done to him inside half an hour from next to no exposure.
Compare the two cases my friend who used them on his cattle who got BSE and him got his wheel chair.
The exposure are different, the compensation needs to be proportional so ergo politics makes the whole debacle SENSIBLE.
With UK and USA cases and autism we already see the same things happening.
Are you or do you want to aid corrupt politicians. Some of the US senators get ten thousand dollars each years from each vaccine company. What do they have to do for this money. Nothing. What happens if they complain about mercury in vaccines? I follow also career changes from revolving doors to ending up on the rubbish heap.
The science is clear but the politics is murky or is that mercky.
BSE
A poor chemist how right you are. Cows are much better chemists than man. feed them grass and they turn out wholesome milk. Feed people with propaganda and they turn out something identical from both ends and every orifice.
So getting that out of the way.
The cause of BSE. Again politics provides the answer. No longer using organophosphorus for sheep dip or for warble fly and mysteriously the mad cows are going away slowly.
A second rate chemist also getting the Nobel Prize for prions. Take a look at the repeat units in his theory and ask yourself what an animal does to protect from toxic harm?
A 100 per cent correlation between OP and BSe was found by the epidemiologist who wrote to the chemical industry for advice (was it Wilesmith from memory). The next moment a farm was found with coordinates suggesting it was in the middle of the sea so difficult for me to check and no response from govt on this farm anyway (top secret).
So immediately the chemical idea was destroyed. No one was allowed to follow it through and if you look at 16 million words from an “independent” inquiry you will be hard pressed to find the word OP and even harder to find DIAZINON in those 16 million words even to deny it as a cause.
Remember That this OP diazinon was borught in on January of whatever year and that the BSE began two weeks before. This explained by trials on big famrs already starting with OP which replaced OC (organochlorine) for sheep dip.
A fellow teacher who moved to sheep farming became a cripple inside 18 months so at a max will have used OP dip twice only.
Again the UK gold supply could not pay for the OP harm done to farmers let alone their animals. But today the UK decided in their wisdom to sell all their gold. Pity about the rise in price since but then its all down to POLITICS.
John Ferrous Cranus:
An expert on both Mercury poisoning and Autism said so. The OAP Plaintiffs’ lawyers were unable to discredit her testimony.
Mad Hatter’s Disease, caused by mercury, is not the same as autism. Autism is not insanity.
Proof please.
Correct. The science says that mercury does not cause autism, nor do vaccinations.
Hi Julian
quick reply
lead poisoning is recognised as causing autism and mercury is very similar.
Also although forgotten there is edivence accepted that mercury does cause autism if the exposure is pre-birth.
Mad Hatters disease but that is not from injection.
Mentioned already tiny amounts of squalene destroy the immune system but if eaten are cleared out of body in minutes.
Injection and digestion are two different things.
Politics the refusal of AMC to run an advert is the latest example of political pressure and for my part the people in AMC were silly to get involved in an advert for a few dollars and risk being broken by the pharma mafia.
I doubt if there were thousands of people objecting, more like one phone call giving “protection” to AMC.
Since when has USA not had free speech. The answer sadly is they have never had free speech.
Mr. Fryer:
Since when was yelling “fire” in a movie theater considered an exercise of free speech? Is it legal to use misinformation in ads in the UK, like claiming bleach (MMS) can cure cancer?
Plus, no one has stopped SafeMinds message. It is just that AMC listened to the over 2500 people who thought that showing the very misleading advertisement was a bad idea.
I went to the first complaint at the AMC board. “Remove the Unfounded Anti-Vaccine Message from your Ads” and it said “2597 people have this problem.”
Then to the one posted by Ms. Conrick, “AMC flip flops on Mercury-Free Vaccines?”, which said “9 people have this question.”
AMC is a business. They make more money if they have fewer people angry with them. So, Mr. Fryer, use that keen mind of yours and tell us which group complained the loudest.
Oh, and it still holds that everything you write will be considered misinformation until you actually back it up with actual evidence. Though I would love for you to tell us how 2597 is less than 9.
Hi Chris
Yes I agree completely that 2 597 people objecting to the showing is impressive and calls for a sensible response. Most such polls have the names and I would love to see the names and the 9 also.
I rest neutral about this advert and do share your worries.
When small the single thing we were taught almost was that sticks and stones will break our bones but names will never hurt us.
I still hold this belief and all the spite and venom about me here is a nothing but a mark of disrespect not of me but of the originator. But in a cruel world we live in it is a nothing.
Sticks and stones are more serious and today the injection of thimerosal is to me the modern equivalent of stone age man with his sticks and stones.
The ancients could no doubt argue that there sticks and stones were necessary to enable peaceful people to enjoy life without menace from those who might destroy their homes.
The same arguments are used today. Take our vaccines or suffer killer illnesses. A seductive message and one we have accepted for 60 years in the UK for example. But yesterdays protection against killer illnesses for schoolchildren is now multiple repeat vaccines for babies less than 6 months old and still incredibly weak compared to a six year old. Add to this the use of just squalene and organomercury both of which were never given to me as a babe but today and for 20 years both are common alongside of course GMO injected into babes.
The risks are not calculated and sudden death, epilepsy, autism and myriads of others grave illnesses are brushed off without knowing their cause.
The increased use and way vaccines are given, the lack of proper testing denied with statements like 22 million have received squalene without harm. How do we know and why for example have 22 million USA people not been injected with squalene.
It is difficult to get across simple, elementary, scientific principles to people who are truly ignorant.
I have great respect and admiration for most people if not all here who I accept as genuine and eager to get to the bottom of the autism puzzle which has been solved for dozens of causes already.
If I cant explain why it is evil and tantamount to murder to inject mercury into unborn children then I blame myself.
If people can explain to me why the worlds most toxic element is OK for the unborn child I will withdraw and profoundly apologise.
There are simple issues never discussed and perhaps for the benefit of people with out any proper science base or without years of study of this autism issue I can put some points for discussion together.
15 years ago I would have condemned anyone who said vaccines were bad or could cause illness.
15 years ago apart from lead, thalidomide and pathogenic organisms invading the pregant mother I had no idea why or what caused autism and probably then associated these things with other illnesses.
Today I have changed to the view that something in vaccines is bad and may or may not be thimerosal.
But in a compassionate world you need to assume the worst case scenario and not the best case. Harry Clark died from mercury vaccines at 8 weeks and the families following son was not killed by vaccines at 8 weeks as he was forbidden to have them by his doctor. I have every reason to believe he is alive, well and healthy and vaccinated but not at 8 weeks, one day or in the womb.
Can people not appreciate this point that is part of the groups that share my concerns.
We are not anti vaccine and that is a malicious name calling device.
Perhaps people can tell us why we add thimerosal to perfectly usable vaccines. The answer that poor people dont deserve non mercury vaccines I find distasteful.
To be pedantic. Yelling fire in a theatre is free speech but the consequences of deaths in the rush to escape might cause this free speech to be an incitement with appropriate sanctions AFTERWARDS.
Telling people there is mercury in their vaccine and that there are non toxic alternatives cannot be construed by me as the same as yelling fire. And again being pedantic writing on a screen is not free speech for an evident reason plus the high costs of publicity.
Sadly many people including most of my friends that get vaccines chose to believe the authority rather than a person in retirement.
So complete is their faith they don’t even make a note of which vaccine or when administered.
Also sadly many that even support the notion of dangerous chemicals used in agriculture have made the error of taking vaccines with the self same neurotoxic consequences.
If people here know of mercury in vaccines and the fact that the amounts have been reduced for some they already have knowledge most people do not have including as said my friends who know but disbelieve me that any government would knowingly harm them or their family.
This was the very remark of Mr Clark when I asked him about the use of nerve acting toxins protecting their domestic animals may in fact provide a toxic environment for their babies.
At the time of my work we were both in agreement that the vaccine taken 6 hours before death was an unfortunate coincidence.
These coincidences are now at levels where they must not be considered coincident.
This is all well and good, same old discussions as ever.
The point is, showing that syringe with puddles of liquid metal (mercury) next to it will terrify people.
The PSA is all well and good except for that one scene, in my opinion. It’s just so very wrong.
I remember the big scare, as a child. “Never break a thermometer, the mercury will poison you!”
And now, with that PSA, people will think they’re taking that stuff out of thermometers and injecting it into our kids… which is so obviously not true. Even the most avid anti-vax people have to admit that it’s a misleading image.
The Dose is the poison
Good perhaps as a rule of thumb bettered by the notion that small amounts are good for us.
Cyanide is an example mentioned where no known use is made by mammals though it is a protective device in many plants to curb them being eaten by animals.
Like mercury the illnesses from small amounts are different to those from large amounts.
Mercury is a catalyst and therefore for some of its harm there is no bottom limit.
The dose makes the poison is really the mercury is the poison.
Consider a world enclosing hydrogen and oxygen in the ratio 2 to 1. This unstable mixture can last for ever or if a single molecule of platinum is introduced will explode explosively. The speed of this reaction is huge.
Consider a world of hydrogen peroxide and introduce almost anything and the liquid much like water will decompose slowly or quickly according to the impurity.
So in a like situation, it is not always the amount of mercury compound for harm but only which harm can arise from small amounts that may not arise if the mercury is present in large amounts.
Cyanide we know and accept completely different patterns of toxicity at different levels of exposure.
For thimerosal we observe harm bu then deny this harm is related to small amounts of toxin.
A dangerous position to take for a known catalytic substance.
This is not the only reason to suppose small amounts are harmful.
Never seen mentioned in any analysis of autism is the thermodynamic instability of babies. They are defying known laws of science to even exist and for this reason any action such as injection with a deadly toxic chemical could easily precipitate catastrophic actions of putting that infant on the scientific path to normal thermodynamic stabilty and that means death.
There are many models we can use to explain and realise harm done.
The miracle of life is truly the miracle of life.
Tinkering around with Witches brews mixtures of chemicals toxic to all human life may be reversible when injected into men and boys but lethal for infants and babies.
We need to look more to what the end results are and less to that of thinking well it cant be due to this toxin or that toxin we exposed baby too.
A dead or injured baby is often at the fault of what treatments that infant had and all those looking at aluminium, mercury, squalene, inducing drugs, medical screening processes etc need to take account of new illnesses that defy reasons they arive.
Someone said if the thalidomide had not been shown to be toxic we may in 2010 be facing 1 child in 100 with a missing arm or leg and saying that after 22 million safe uses of thalidomide we would be better to spend limited resources on the real causes of such tradegies such as the genetic deficiency of the mother.
Hi Stuart
Yes the advert is misleading and is simplistic.
When young mercury was the only thing for thermometers and as a teacher it came as a shock to see the lab technicians treat each spill as if the end of the world was coming.
Masses of sulphur which to an ancient chemist seemed much more toxic and heaped on the mercury which was then disposed of as toxic waste.
Today mercury thermometers are all but extinct. The action of lab technicians should have been to condemn the thermometers and not allow them to be used.
But we live in a faulty society where somehow, and god only knows why we still inject mercury into unborn babies. Well perhaps more accurate to say that in 2007 or so we BEGAN to inject mercury into unborn babies.
Make sense of that. I can’t.
HOW TO Poison Your Spouse The Natural Way
A Guide to Safer Food
Jay D Mann
Is a book that deals with for example the appearance of cyanide in many foods and presumably how to eat safely.
This advert disussed here appears to mimic in a way the same kind of mentality.
Exposing a known risk and then giving an easy safer alterative.
Showing that injecting mercury might possibly be bad is not rocket science and sadly many are STILL not aware.
But then telling that safer vaccines do exist which do the same thing but don’t involve injecting mercury is very informative if you are ignorant of this fact.
At the common sense level it seems the choice is clear for most people.
The humour if its there seems to be lost on those who objected.
Sadly many people will get mercury vaccines and not realise.
Like my friends who have had them for the past ten years and some are now dead or with MS et al alongside those who just seem mercury RESISTANT. Proving for some, only old age will get them.
> But we live in a faulty society where somehow, and god only knows why we still inject mercury into unborn babies.
It’s not the same thing!! They are not injecting liquid metal into… you know what? Never mind.
Your arm chair science degree is obviously far more powerful than the degrees of actual scientists. The differences between Ethyl and Methyl clearly don’t matter so long as you get to shout mercury as loud as you can.
Mr. Fryer: I gave the title of the one where only nine voted, but here. I am not bothering to read your nonsense anymore, because there is no point. They are all the same, you make idiotic claims without evidence and no amount of evidence will penetrate your skull.
I repeat that you need to seek out the nearest outpatient psychiatric facility and ask for an evaluation.
Once again John, I must ask you to give evidence.
Please give a cite showing that lead poisoning causes autism, and that mercury poisoning is similar enough to cause the same.
Please show that vaccines are not adequately tested for safety.
Please provide evidence that prenatal mercury exposure can lead to autism.
Please give links to the study/ies showing that small amounts of squalene can wreck the immune system.
Please show proof that Vaccine Manufacturers are funding U.S. Senators.
Finally, please give proof that a quarter of U.S Gulf War veterans have passed away, and that this is due to vaccination.
Until you do, to quote Chris, “everything you write will be considered misinformation”.
JFC, actually injection of metallic mercury isn’t that bad (though certainly not recommended).
Lots of people have tried to use it to kill themselves and it didn’t work even though x-rays show frighteningly high levels of mercury. Sometimes months,
http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/content/73/2/234.abstract
or even years later.
http://heart.bmj.com/content/82/6/e11.full
Hi Chris
Yes your reference to the AMC site lists 42 people to date and I have yet to work out the number for and against this ad but it isnt one sided.
Lots of misinformation on both sides as well as good.
My chief worry is the issue of mercury and while mercury is still in any vaccine the ten year claim that it is out must be considered false.
An honest industry would put the mercury balance sheet clearly on the table but we have reason to believe even in states where mercury is illegal or forbidden that the law is being flouted.
Whatever is the cause of autism, the current rate is unacceptable and the lack of movement to finding a cause even a politically acceptable cause as for BSE still seems elusive.
The rate of general neurological problems is at one in three bigger than any health catastrophe present or past that we are aware of.
The fall out when the cause is found should involve criminal proceedings.
How can USA in 2010 accpet this level of illness when just 20 years ago the health of the nation was a model for the world?
Hi Julian
I dont give references in general as the work is out there.
My own knowledge goes back 50 years and involves a steady slow and conscious work on chemicals and health on a wide front of which autism is a minor part.
Generally the people tend to reject anything produced that doesnt suit their point of view.
I am open to view any research and change my view according to best evidence.
I am not about changing my view due to badly worded abstracts or people being paid to put fraudulent data up to protect their view.
I will try to sort out proof for the lead cause of autism or at least the consensus view which is quite old in recent science and in the history of man goes back to the ancients.
It is common knowledge that lead conduits for water was responsible for the fall of the roman empire.
If history repeats itself then USA needs to sort out the autism and neurology problems ASAP.
“I dont give references in general as the work is out there.
My own knowledge goes back 50 years and involves a steady slow and conscious work on chemicals and health on a wide front of which autism is a minor part.”
Mr. Chemist, please give references to your evidence. Laziness does not help your case in the slightest. Also, I’m assuming Chemist is your last name, as an actual chemist would know the difference between elemental mercury and a mercury compound.
“I am open to view any research and change my view according to best evidence.
I am not about changing my view due to badly worded abstracts or people being paid to put fraudulent data up to protect their view.
I will try to sort out proof for the lead cause of autism or at least the consensus view which is quite old in recent science and in the history of man goes back to the ancients.”
Do not lie, Mr. Chemist. You were given the evidence, and you dismissed it out of hand for no reason other than you disagreed with it.
Hi Gray Falcon
Again I suspect hiding behind pseudonyms
The dept of human health and human services has this to say on lead
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
Children of all races and ethnic origins are at risk of lead toxicity throughout the U.S.
Lead may cause irreversible neurological damage as well as renal disease, cardiovascular effects, and reproductive toxicity.
Blood lead levels once considered safe are now considered hazardous, with no known threshold.
Lead poisoning is a wholly preventable disease.
Granted there is no mention in this work on autism directly but irreversible neurological damage even if you say its not autism is serious to those affected.
This is a reference for someone asking for proof of harm from lead.
Not sure what evidence I was given and dismissed can you run it across again.
And names will never hurt me so quit the gratuitous insults.
Do I know the difference between elemental mercury and a mercury compound. Well I think I did at the age of 8 from memory.
in fact at university I studied mercury chemistry for three months back in the 1960’s and then all compounds were toxic.
It seems as if in 2010 that the USA government would not agree with the work taught to me by my chemistry professor for endless months.
Note that while in court mercury injections do not move judges to pity that a less toxic element is quoted as
having no known threshold below which it is not toxic.
And
A wholly preventable disease state.
QUITE SO
References
On lead also I refer to
CLINICAL PSYCHIATRY
Elliot Slater and Martin Roth
This is a near 1 000 page tome on psychiatry and not available from the net as far as I know but it does have views on lead toxicity.
It says at the end of a 2 page spread on lead that:
Children are said to be especially susceptible, and to react with convulsions and other cerebral symptoms which on passing may leave permanent defects behind.
And on the section of genetic defects it says this of lead:
the illness which is an abnormality of genes of a recessive nature can be mimicked and the acquired toxicity to the developing brain with similar results from lead poisoning. excuse the paraphrasing but the message is the same.
Lead can show as an illness identical to illnesses due to faulty genetics.
Genes it tells us are of two main types one which weeds itself out and this one similar to lead poisoning which by natural selection becomes a rare illness.
The gene search for autism in USA would seem to challenge the work in this book.
Mr. Fryer there are plenty of free to read papers on http://www.pubmed.gov on children and lead poisoning. Just giving us a title and authors of book, that may have been out of print for decades is a total cop out. It indicates that you have no real evidence for your claims, and you know it!
You said:
Obviously you are having trouble reading, which further explains why you only give misinformation and no evidence. That means 42 people on both side of the issue who commented. What I meant was this: “9 people have this question”. Which are those who voted in agreement with Ms. Conrick.
Then call me Trowa Barton.
Did he tell you they were all equally toxic, and at all levels of exposure? If so, he was incompetent, otherwise, you are dishonest. Please learn some of the basics. I know that toxicology is more complicated than a list of substances with the heading “These are bad.”
Hi Trowa
I am nearly out of this discussion as it has wandered possibly my fault too.
I am not 100 per cent sure thimerosal causes autism but more sure it must take some blame for sudden infant death.
There are many candidates for causes of autism and we know one cause cannot explain all of them.
But we can be sure of political influence on the truth and also on some dubious research papers.
Even if thimerosal is a culprit it means perhaps 199 out of 200 do not go on to autism after injection with thimerosal vaccines.
We are after all giving more the most part injections to healthy people to keep them healthy.
Having a drop out rate of SIDS of 1 in 500 to 1 in 2 000
Autism at 1 in 50 to 1 in 200
Neurological problems 1 in 3 or so
Is not good if vaccines, thimerosal or other additives in them or medicaments from milder conditions vaccine induced are to blame.
There is much mistaking of meanings of chemical and their effects.
Sometimes people confuse even lead with mercury as their effects are similar.
Remember also when people talk of ethyl mercury and methyl mercury and the half lives etc etc that ethyl mercury and methyl mercury can be argued as not existing.
The arguments roll on with highly qualified chemists arguing falsely that methyl and ethyl mercury compounds are completely different.
You may just as easily argue methyl mercury compounds are many and completely different from each other.
A half life for even one single molecule can have several different values differing ten fold or more.
Toxicology is a field for those with extensive knowledge but the idea that any mercury compound is bad is not a bad idea.
In the way lead does not have a threshold then for mercury this also holds.
My email is not secret and is
johnfryer@orange.fr
Anyone either with my views or wishing to give me information to show that thimerosal isnt that bad to inject into an unborn baby is welcome to email me privately and in confidence that I will not divulge their identity.
Mercury researchers have been killed for stating that mercury is bad.
That is the mafia end of the political protection for law suits which if honest would bring the polluters and murderers to their sense.
It has been done with lead. When the need for lead in petrol passed, the honest researchers came back by the drove with money from the big players to get the real truth.
At the moment big money says mercury is just fine.
No who is incompetent my professor of mercury chemistry or vaccine companies who suppress data and ask for mercury to be removed from childs vaccines only ten years later to insist giving it to them at even younger ages.
Look at the VAERS everyone likes to hate and see that one in three problems occur to babies of a few weeks only.
People who run down this valuable data base may like to explain this and remember every year lots of my friends get an annual mercury vaccine without problems and have done so for more than ten years. Sadly they trust their government to protect them with a vaccine that stops them getting ill. If only they saw the banned advert they may at least ask for the more expensive and mercury free flu vaccine.
Hi Chris
Landrigan has done much work on lead and can be seen to be concerned over the health effects especially for children.
Like many important scientists as his career progresses you can see a softening of his line on harm from heavy metal elements.
Any successful scientist has this softening attitude and it is a rare scientist indeed who cuts through the crap.
One such is Sam Epstein who has views very strong on cancer and the cause and would go down well with some of the more caustic comments here.
Hi chris
I won’t put the article here but here is the link:
http://www.examiner.com/dc-in-national/landrigan-calls-for-more-research-into-pesticides-toxic-chemicals-environmental-causes-of-autism
Note that in the early 1970’s:
he determined that even very small levels of lead could affect cognitive ability.
His landmark work for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) resulted in the government banning lead from gasoline in 1976
but when asked in 2010 about harm from lead he said:
« he did not have enough information to comment on it »
A man who 40 years ago recognised no threshold for lead toxicity but in the political 21st century wanted to stay aloof from irate families with sick children.
A man responsible for tracking children in todays USA and their exposure but does not have information?
Landrigan is one of the leaders of the National Children’s Study, which is expected to identify causes of autism and many other childhood disorders and diseases. The study will “examine the effects of environmental influences on the health and development of 100,000 children across the United States, following them from before birth until age 21.
Some people who considered this man a hero 40 years ago are today not so euphoric in their praise.
But he is THE person the government trust to show us what causes autism.
You can be sure it won’t be mercury in vaccines and I am more sure of that than my knowledge of what thimerosal in flu vaccine can do to the likes of Harry Clark and one million other children who have suddenly died while healthy.
Do you have any evidence for your accusations, Mr. Chemist? Only a fool takes the word of a random stranger on the Internet without checking first:
http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Trowa_Barton
The beating up of a mercury researcher by the name of Mr Smith is the person in question. (Gene Smith)
He wrote a book about Minamata.
Usually these things only happen if you put your head over the parapet.
I used many years ago to collect such anecdotes of people injured, killed or strange happenings but gave up when it passed the thousand mark.
Professor Boyd Haley lost funding for his work mercury or not related.
The Geiers once highly respectable researchers decades ago for the authority have been consistently targetted as they wont say good things about mercury in vaccines.
Liz Birt autism activist killed when hit by a lorry (see Karen Silkwood)
Not to mention the thousands with autism or death after mercury vaccines that get attacked if they query the vaccine.
Mrs Sally Clark double life for murder when her son died six hours after mercury vaccines etc etc.
I looked up “Gene Smith” and “Mercury” on Google, and got this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomoko_Uemura_in_Her_Bath
Minimata disease has very different effects than autism, and the photo was withdrawn out of respect for Tomoko’s family.
Then you can provide proof of murder? Speculation is not evidence. How do I know you aren’t responsible for their deaths, so that the movement can have martyrs?
Haley’s work has never been reproduced, and the Geiers are guilty of some of the biggest cases of human research ethics breaches this decade.
No news articles, no evidence this wasn’t just an accident, just an accusation.
Having your beliefs called into question is not equivalent to murder or even intimidation.
Mrs Sally Clark double life for murder when her son died six hours after mercury vaccines etc etc.
Again, any evidence? Correlation isn’t enough, those children just as likely died soon after being breastfed.
Frankly, you’ve done more damage to your arguments with your own words than anyone else here. I’m not sure I should bother with you again.
If you look at a report of the accident that killed Liz Birt, she was a passenger in a car driven by a man. The man’s son was also a passenger. He ran a red light and the car was hit by a pickup truck.
http://www.aspendailynews.com/section/home/motorists-warned-slo
Motorists warned to slow down
by Andre Salvail
Thursday, December 29, 2005
“Elizabeth A. Birt, 49, of Wilmette, Ill., died from injuries resulting from the collision. She was a passenger in a 2006 Ford Taurus driven by Steve Felt, 52, also of Wilmette. Felt’s 13-year-old son Michael also was riding in the car.”
“The Felts were taken to Aspen Valley Hospital for treatment of moderate to serious injuries. Both father and son have been released, according to a hospital employee who declined to provide further details. Though Michael Felt reportedly was transported to Children’s Hospital in Denver, a hospital spokesman said he was not a patient there.”
“Witnesses and police said Steve Felt ran a red light while turning left onto Brush Creek Road from the westbound lane of Highway 82. His car was hit by a 2000 Toyota Tundra traveling in the eastbound lane driven by Blake Williams, 31, of Snowmass. He and a female passenger were wearing seatbelts and received minor injuries.”
“Alcohol and road conditions were not factors in the crash, said Capt. Richard Duran, spokesman for the Colorado State Patrol’s office in Glenwood Springs. The roadway was fairly dry when the accident occurred at around 9:42 a.m.”
“It appears that Felt simply “disregarded the traffic-control device,” said Duran, referring to the red light.”
You are suggesting that Liz Birt was murdered by Steve Felt and Blake Williams who staged this accident to kill her. While both of them had other passengers? Where those passengers would be witnesses and were injured and might have been killed too?
Steve Felt was her fiancé. How much do you think the anti-mercury people would have to pay to get someone to murder someone they were engaged to be married to while putting their own child at risk?
Mr. Fryer:
Boyd Haley has been duping people for years on the mercury poison scam. Over ten years ago he had a company that sold testing and cures for “mercury poisoning” from dental fillings: ALT Inc.
Really, Mr. Fryer, go to your nearest out patient psychiatric facility for evaluation.
Speaking of Boyd Haley, I met him last year at IMFAR; I hadn’t heard of him before then. Talked to the man for half an hour because I was trying to figure out if he was actually willing to think critically about what his poster was claiming. It was about the GFCF idea. There were other posters and presenters there on that topic that actually seemed like they were genuine and well thought out… his not so much. I remember distinctly being reminded of a used car salesman while talking to him… Not that that says anything about the validity of his science, but an interesting observation considering how many biomed parents seem to like him after personal interactions.
Hi Daedelus
Thanks for the information.
The loss which is irreplaceable for the autism movement is an accident.
The treatment of Sally Clark and many others is down to S R Meadow and there we are on clearer ground.
She was set up by this man.
Hi Chris
Yes, so making money is a crime?
Then the vaccine companies are guilty.
and Esattezza
We cant all be orators of the like of Hitler and Churchill
But from the two above you can be fooled by even the best of orators.
He actually was the foolish chemist who thought they added mercury to vaccines.
And the wise people were the vaccine regulators who knew no one in their right mind would put mercury in vaccines. From memory Halsey and not Haley
Sure, Mr. Fryer, duping desperate people out of money should be a crime. Lying to desperate parents should be a crime. Also, he still seems affiliated with Univ. of Kentucky as a retired professor, so he does not seem to have been punished. Your point?
Boyd Haley was still bilking people with the dental filling scam when Halsey tried to be cautious.
Also, Dr. Halsey, was concerned about the level based on methylmercury numbers, not ethylmercury. The disaster of his precaution is detailed in the chapter of Paul Offit’s Autism’s False Prophets titled “A Precautionary Tale.” The following papers show there is really no real danger from the small amount in vaccines (note, this is known as providing evidence in full, something you have been asked to do and have always failed):
Pediatrics. 2010 Sep 13.
Prenatal and Infant Exposure to Thimerosal From Vaccines and Immunoglobulins and Risk of Autism.
Price CS, Thompson WW, Goodson B, Weintraub ES, Croen LA, Hinrichsen VL, Marcy M, Robertson A, Eriksen E, Lewis E, Bernal P, Shay D, Davis RL, Destefano F.
Neurotox Res. 2010 Jul;18(1):59-68. Epub 2009 Sep 16.
Are neuropathological conditions relevant to ethylmercury exposure?
Aschner M, Ceccatelli S.
Neuropsychological Performance 10 years after Immunization in Infancy with Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines
Tozzi AE, Bisiacchi P, Tarantino V, De Mei B, D’Elia L, Chiarotti F, Salmaso S.
Pediatrics, February 2009, Vol. 123(2):475-82
Mercury Levels in Newborns and Infants after Receipt of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines
Pichichero ME, Gentile A, Giglio N, et al
Pediatrics, February 2008; 121(2) e208-214
Mercury, Vaccines, And Autism: One Controversy, Three Histories
Baker JP
American Journal of Public Health, February 2008;98(2): 244-253
Continuing Increases in Autism Reported to California’s Developmental Services System: Mercury in Retrograde
Schechter R, Grether JK
Arch Gen Psychiatry, January 2008; 65(1):19-24
Early Thimerosal Exposure and Neuropsychological Outcomes at 7 to 10 Years
Thompson WW, Price C, Goodson B, et al; Vaccine Safety Datalink Team
N Engl J Med, Sep 27, 2007; 357(13):1281-1292
Thimerosal in Vaccines: Balancing the Risk of Adverse Effects with the Risk of Vaccine-Preventable Disease
Bigham M, Copes R
Drug Safety, 2005, Vol. 28(2):89-101
Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant Monkeys Exposed to Methylmercury or Vaccines Containing Thimerosal
Burbacher TM, Shen DD, Liberato N, Grant KS, Cernichiari E, Clarkson T
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences, April 21, 2005
Thimerosal Exposure in Infants and Developmental Disorders: A Prospective Cohort Study in the United Kingdom Does Not Support a Causal Association
Heron J, Golding J, ALSPAC Study Team
Pediatrics, September 2004, Vol. 114(3):577-583
Thimerosal Exposure in Infants and Developmental Disorders: A Retrospective Cohort Study in the United Kingdom Does Not Support a Causal Association
Andrews N, Miller E, Grant A, Stowe J, Osborne V, Taylor B
Pediatrics, September 2004, Vol. 114(3):584-591
Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines and Autistic Spectrum Disorder: A Critical Review of Published Original Data
Parker SK, Schwartz B, Todd J, Pickering LK
Pediatrics, September 2004, Vol. 114(3):793-804
The Evidence for the Safety of Thimerosal in Newborn and Infant Vaccines
Clements CJ
Vaccine, May 7, 2004, Vol. 22(15-16):1854-1861
Safety of Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines: A Two-Phased Study of Computerized Health Maintenance Organization Databases
Verstraeten T, Davis RL, DeStefano F, et al
Pediatrics, November 2003, Vol. 112(5):1039-1048
The Toxicology of Mercury–Current Exposures and Clinical Manifestations
Clarkson TW, Magos L, Myers GJ
New England Journal of Medicine, October 30, 2003, Vol. 349(18):1731-7
Association Between Thimerosal-Containing Vaccine and Autism
Hviid A, Stellfeld M, Wohlfahrt J, Melbye M
Journal of the American Medical Association, October 1, 2003, Vol. 290(13):1763-6
Thimerosal and the Occurrence of Autism: Negative Ecological Evidence from Danish Population-Based Data
Madsen KM, Lauritsen MB, Pedersen CB, et al
Pediatrics, Sept. 2003, Vol. 112(3 Pt 1):604-606
Autism and Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines. Lack of Consistent Evidence for an Association
Stehr-Green P, Tull P, Stellfeld M, Mortenson PB, Simpson D
American Journal of Preventive Medicine, August 2003, Vol. 25(2):101-6
Impact of the Thimerosal Controversy on Hepatitis B Vaccine Coverage of Infants Born to Women of Unknown Hepatitis B Surface Antigen Status in Michigan
Biroscak BJ, Fiore AE, Fasano N, Fineis P, Collins MP, Stoltman G
Pediatrics, June 2003, Vol. 111(6):e645-9
Vaccine Safety Policy Analysis in Three European Countries: The Case of Thimerosal
Freed GL, Andreae MC, Cowan AE, et al
Health Policy, December 2002, Vol. 62(3):291-307
Mercury Concentrations and Metabolism in Infants Receiving Vaccines Containing Thimerosal: A Descriptive Study
Pichichero ME, Cernichiari E, Lopreiato J, Treanor J
The Lancet, November 30, 2002, Vol. 360:1737-1741
An Assessment of Thimerosal Use in Childhood Vaccines
Ball LK, Ball R, Pratt RD
Pediatrics, May 2001, Vol. 107(5):1147-1154
JFC, have you no shame? You are just making stuff up. Don’t you want to know what actually happened? Or is that irrelevant if it doesn’t match the story you want to tell?
Sally Clark was wrongly convicted of killing her children because of false testimony from an “expert” who made shit up just like you are making stuff up. You are all set to condemn every vaccine maker with murder on your whim, just like Sally Clark was convicted of murder on the false testimony of someone who thought he knew.
It wasn’t vaccines that put Sally Clark in prison, it was people making stuff up and lying about it. Just like you are making stuff up and lying about it.
Do you accuse Paul Offit? With no evidence? You are no better than David Southall who accused the husband of Sally Clark of murdering their children after watching a TV documentary on the family.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Southall
What is the source of your information? Is it like the source of information that David Southall used? Something you saw on TV?
@ John Fryer Chemist:
Not good enough John. Anyone can make outrageous claims and say “the evidence is out there.” I’d also like to point out that a number of claims you have made have been shown to be false by the other commentators. Until you back up your claims with evidence we have no reason not to view you the same way we view John Scudamore.
Hi Daedelus
We have common ground at last.
Both S R Meadow and D Southall are repugnant people.
I have made a study of these people for more than a decade.
In fact before the trial of Angela Cannings, I not only promised that his (SRM) or my reputation would be in tatters when I offered my evidence but was then refused to testify.
I with a now banned justice group made a submission to the police for charges of murder to be brought against S R Meadow for his murder of a child by his own admission.
If it takes one to know one then I plead guilty, but I hope my feelings, honesty and intelligence are put to bettet use than amateur psychology in front of the TV.
It is pertinent to ask why Southall was taken seriously but my own serious allegations did not get made public even.
I think the anser is POLITICS.
As a matter of reverence for those here both honest, hard working, intelligent:
What is your thought on the cause of autism for 500 000 children in USA today?
For Julian Frost
Is this evidence of lead harm or just political cover up?
LEAD RULES ( as mercury still rules in flu vaccines?)
EPA views on lead as told by Ms Harman talking to a Mr Pratt:
In 1992 this committee held hearings on a
serious problem
hundreds of thousands of children being harmed by exposure to lead
which damages the development of the brain and nervous system (often irreparably)
Bi-partisan vote on lead reduction was passed by passed 39 votes to 4 votes
EPA view is CLEAR
Lead is a neurotoxin
Mercury we know is very similar and more neurotoxic.
In November 2010 lets get mercury out of vaccines.
JFC, we have nothing in common. You are just making stuff up and lying about it. Sally Brit did not die under mysterious circumstances related to her autism advocacy. She died in a automobile accident where her fiancé was driving and was at fault. For you to imply that those circumstances are mysterious and related to her autism advocacy is false and deceptive and is calculated to be false and deceptive.
You are not an honest broker of information. What you say cannot be trusted because you make stuff up and lie about it. When caught in a lie you just change the subject. If the rest of the anti-mercury crowd is like you, then it is easy to see why they are where they are. No facts, just lies and when the lies are caught, change the subject. If you are unable to understand this, then you really need help from mental health professionals because you grip on reality is tenuous.
Hi Daedelus
First of all you like many here hide behind pseudonyms.
I also realise that most of the people are like Monty Pythons flying circus and love to argue.
The five minute argument is not your tenue but the ten year argument to defend the worlds chemically most hazardous element and its role in vaccines where it has been DELIBERATELY and PERNICIOUSLY added.
Yes I get things wrong, but I am big enough to admit it.
In today political climate where two workers in the atomic power project in Iran get ASSASSINATED we are entitled to question each and every DEATH, ACCIDENT, LOSS of JOB and of course the lies that it is OK to inject unborn babies at three times the toxic level for an adult.
Unborn infants are not babies even and certainly not full grown men who can take 12 vaccines and come out smiling and wanting more MERCURY.
Wow!
Just wow!
Mr. Fryer seems incapable of embarrassment. He’s caught in a blatant lie (Elizabeth Birt’s death – thanks, Daedalus2U!) and continues to blather on about how people who threaten to reveal the “truth” about mercury are being intimidated, beaten and killed. He also seems oblivious to the irony of claiming that dark forces (“the government”, of course) are brutally supressing all who speak the truth about mercury (and, apparently, organophosphates) while he continues to write, unmolested.
Then there is his “response” about BSE (bovine spongiform encephalopathy or “mad cow disease”):
What a farm in the middle of the sea has to do with BSE is hard to fathom – as is Mr. Fryer’s claim that the farm is “top secret”, yet he was able to find out about its existence (if not its location).
One possible explanation – and one apparently not considered by Mr. Fryer – is that organophosphates have no connection with BSE.
This paragraph is a bit harder for me to parse. Apparently, Mr. Fryer feels that the fact diazinon was brought in two weeks after the BSE cases started proves that organophosphates (e.g. diazinon) caused the BSE outbreak. I’ve heard of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, but what sort of fallacy is it when you claim that something that happened after an event caused it?
I’m also curious how “sheep dip” could be connected to bovine spongiform encephalopathy. The transmissible spongiform encephalopathy of sheep (“Scrapie”) isn’t the same as BSE and no research has shown that scrapie can be transmitted to cattle (or humans).
So, is Mr. Fryer just making it up as he goes along or is he suffering from some sort of dementia that makes him incapable of distinguishing between reality and fantasy? He’s been caught in enough verifiable “errors” (those less charitable might call them “lies”) to make the rest of his claims highly suspect. Yet, despite all the polite (and not so polite) corrections and requests for citations, Mr. Fryer continues to vent his vivid imagination in these comments.
I can hardly wait to see what he thinks up next!
Prometheus
Hi Prometheus,
Having spent ten years looking at all the points for and against what causes BSE it is difficult to condense it in a few words.
The link of organophosphates which are neurotoxic chemicals to what is after all a neurotoxic illness is important.
It certainly is more plausible than food of the same type which has been used for 200 years is the cause.
There was a sudden change from older safer insecticides to new and dangerous insecticides.
Despite the lack of information or even denial on diazinon it was voluntary withdrawn in 2000 worldwide.
Jim Wilesmith thought OP’s were implicated and that wasn’t on my say so but from his epidemiological investigation.
The farm in the sea is not my invention but that of the UK veterinary service and the boss of JW and not him and followed his first idea of chemical cause.
He of course was a minor player and not into Big Pharma political science.
The withdrawal of any chemical however dangerous is normally over a five year period.
No organic born and bred cows in UK ever got BSE and yet did get the same food as those getting the condition.
The link to sheep dip is my own idea and not taken up seriously by the UK government who are not interested in crucifying the chemical industry which is after all massive compared to the farm industry.
It does not matter to me who believes that neurotoxic chemicals are not harmful as it simply shows a willingness to follow the herd instinct as per the lemmings.
The sheep dip link is amazing to me and shows the folly of these people throwing waste sheep dip on cattle grazing land or into the water course where the toxin can be transferred to all downstream.
For your information it is a simple chemical fact that while sheep are unmoved by diazinon that cows are exquisitely vulnerable.
There is much merit in the food idea as it puts Big Pharma 100 per cent in the clear.
The lack of response by the government to my concerns on OP’s and thousands of others might move people to think of conspiracy and of course that farm is on the record to show if I made another mistake or not but at the time I was happy to do my own research but finding a mythical farm the UK vet service places in an ocean is beyond my capabilities.
Mark Purdey spent much time on this theory and the bullet holes in his house wall did not get there by accident.
His death in his 50’s shows the death of farmers is not in their later life as one might imagine.
His son tells me that his own exposure to insecticides has produced a toll on his cells showing a 50 per cent amount of dead tissue. Normal results show this to be 5 per cent.
People using insecticides go around for years in this state.
One person said to me that if my theory was right she was dead. Several years after she got bone cancer and died in 3 days aged 50 or so. She used another OP on here apple farm.
In the field of children and OP exposure thanks to efforts by chemists flagging OP danger we see today in additon to several OP bans especially in homes, no OP put in babies clothes since 1977 and from 1990 or so no OP in babies mattresses.
If we adopt the denialist views here we would still have these in our homes andf on our kids.
GET MERCURY OUT OF VACCINES
Not necessary
Deliberately added
Tantamount to assassination.
People need to get on the same side.
If any mom has one flu vaccine today with mercury it exposes her unborn child to needless hazard.
Ten years after the CDC asked for it to go we still have a residue left.
NOT GOOD ENOUGH
My own credibility or not is no reason for anyone except a maniac to use this as a reason to say inject neurotoxins they are just fine.
If we are talking of dementia then injecting people with thimerosal would count for me.
Hi Prometheus,
It is well known that people jump the gun and in fact may be the ones used as guinea pigs.
You have thalidomide NEVER approved but you do have thalidomide victims.
In fact the timing is chilling in its link.
OP’s were used in grain mountains and for warble fly but for me the diazinon link is chilling and I have never seen anything to doubt it.
If you look at the toxicity of some of these OP’s it is awesome.
In the film THE ROCK the comment was BETTER MAN NEVER MADE THSESE.
The stuff was so dreadful that even Hitler in all his madness refuse to use it.
Not for feelings for his enemies but because he thought we had it too.
We did not!
After the war they tested the Nazi OP’s and dismissed them as being too bad.
After the report was sent to the government they had to rewrite the report.
Pirimiphos methyl on grain will kill all insects that try to eat it 12 months after application. The grain mountain had been so often treated with OP’s that the scientists AGREED. TOO TOXIC FOR MAN.
Did they dump it? Yes they fed it to UK cows.
So you could be right perhaps cows equisitely sensitive to OP’s that was too toxic for man did not suffer one moment of toxicity.
You would be agreeing totally with the UK government, the UK veterinary service and supporting the work of a Nobel Prize winner who proved eating food causes illness but eating neurotoxins is just fine.
And that mercury in unborn babies YUM YUM YUM.
Mr. Fryer please go to the nearest outpatient psychiatric facility for a full evaluation.
JFC, there are legitimate reasons to hide behind pseudonyms. People who make arguments that some people don’t like get death threats. Even when those arguments are well supported.
It is my understanding is that a number of people who post on this board with their actual name have received death threats as a result and even their children have been threatened. Those threats came from the anti-vaccine crowd.
Rather disingenuous to complain about pseudonyms when you support people who threaten those who don’t use pseudonyms. Has anyone threatened you? Why do the “leaders” in the groups you support not reject and distance themselves from those who make threats against those in the ND camp?
You have shown yourself to be someone who does not have a good grip on reality. You post that you think someone in the pro-vaccine crowd has murdered anti-vaccine people they don’t agree with. Since that never happened, it is pure projection. You made it up because that is how your brain works. What that tells me is that you think that murdering people you don’t agree with is something to consider.
You really need help in getting a better grip on reality. Getting yourself worked-up over things that are not true isn’t good for you.
[d-2u say] there are legitimate reasons to hide behind pseudonyms…a number of people who post on this board with their actual name have received death threats as a result and even their children have been threatened. Those threats came from the anti-vaccine crowd.
amazing how topic goes from “what would you expect” to posters to this blog getting “death threats”…
i could care less if one hides behind a pseudonym…but have doubts it has anything to do with death threats…so many blogs. so many pseudonyms…how many are motivated by death threats to hide behind pseudonyms
[chris say] Mr. Fryer please go to the nearest outpatient psychiatric facility for a full evaluation…
perhaps someone will explain how personal attacks advance science.
stanley seigler
Mr. Seigler, that is not a personal attack. Mr. Fryer is showing some very disordered thinking, with various threads of paranoia (see the stuff about Liz Birt). Our family recently dealt with the aftermath of a dear relative who suffered from mental illness, which had dire consequences.
Unfortunately we could not get her to go to the outpatient facility. We could not get help from the county system since she was not a threat to society. So now we visit her at the cemetery, where we hope she is finally at peace.
No, not a personal attack, but a sincere concern.
And, yes, there are public disclosures of death threats to some people like Paul Offit. Some of the more famous threats have been to certain bloggers like PZ Myers.
Though, I am curious, Mr. Seigler, do you think that Mr. Fryer’s rants “advance science” when many are shown to be factually wrong? How do his rants rank in “science” compared to the list of papers I gave here?
Or do you think it “advances science” because you agree with him, even though he does not produce any evidence?
Chris,
I agree – Mr. Fryer isn’t making any sense any more. Not that he was ever a reliable source of information, but now his comments don’t even make grammatical sense.
I have no problem sparring with a crank, but it seems cruel to argue with someone who clearly is suffering from a serious mental illness. I’m done.
Prometheus