Worries About Autism Link Still Hang Over Vaccines

30 Sep

A story just out from National Public Radio in the United States: Worries About Autism Link Still Hang Over Vaccines. Part of the survey on how the public views vaccines was a question on autism:

Do you believe any of the following are linked to vaccines?
1. Autism
2. Cancer
3. Diabetes
4. Heart disease

The answer: about 21% of Americans say yes to the autism/vaccine link.

The highest levels of “yes” were in those aged 35 to 64, with middle-income status, some college education and who have children.

About 1/4 said their opinions of vaccine had changed in the last 5 years, with about 60% of those responding that their opinions had changed for the worse.

Of the main reasons cited for vaccine fear, autism was the top. By far.

21.4% of respondents said they believe vaccines can cause of autism, 9.2% said they believe vaccines can be
linked to cancer, 6.9% believe they play a role in diabetes, and 5.9% cite a connection between vaccines and
heart disease.

Is this because there is actual evidence, or because of a vocal campaign to put the message of a vaccine/autism link into the public mindset? Well, since there is no convincing evidence of an autism/vaccine link (and a lot of evidence against the primary theories: mercury and MMR) I’d go with the media campaign as the reason this idea still has traction with the public.

And I’m not alone, at least in thinking that the effort of some vocal members of the autism community have had an impact. Last time such a survey came out, it was trumpeted by some of the more vocal sections of the autism-parent community, with one blogger telling his readership to take credit for an increase in belief in the vaccine/autism idea and fear of vaccines:

With less than a half-dozen full-time activists, annual budgets of six figures or less, and umpteen thousand courageous, undaunted, and selfless volunteer parents, our community, held together with duct tape and bailing wire, is in the early to middle stages of bringing the U.S. vaccine program to its knees.

What was even more disturbing than those words were the conclusion of the article:

…mark my words, the results from the next survey will show that the trust continues to erode. Keep fighting, parents, America is really listening.

Yep, Keep fighting. Not to get the message out, but to erode trust in public health. The message seems to have morphed over the years. From informing the public of an idea (albeit unsupported by good data) to one of fear. As we can see from the NPR/Reuters survey, the idea that vaccines and autism are linked is still out there.

We saw a form of this idea surface recently when Michelle Bachmann recently made comments linking the HPV vaccine and mental retardation. I sent an email to the National Vaccine Information Center asking about the Bachmann claim. Here is the response I received:

Sorry to just be getting back to you but we have been inundated with emails about Michelle Bachmann.There’s no information to support her claim and now she has withdrawn it.

I chose the NVIC for this inquiry because they are an organization which I believe has rather lax standards on proof of vaccine injury. If anyone were going to support Ms. Bachmann’s claims, it would be the NVIC. The fact is that even they see this as an unsupportable comment.

But to bring this back to the NPR survey: yes, there are concerns about vaccines in the American public. Concerns are one thing. We should all be concerned about such an important part of the public health system. Fears. That’s another thing. Unfounded fears. Discounted fears. That is yet something else. And we are at the point where unfounded fears and disproved fears are still promoted, largely by autism parents. And that is why autism parents like myself feel the need to counter the misinformation. Because these fears have consequences:

As parents fret, vaccination rates for kids have dipped. Childhood vaccination rates against measles, mumps and rubella (MMR), for instance, fell almost 3 percentage points to 90.6 percent in 2009 from the year before, according to data from private insurers.

As vaccine rates drop, the risks to us all, and infants in particular, rise. In the words of Simon Murch, colleague of Andrew Wakefield in the now-retracted Lancet study which fueled the modern fears of MMR and other vaccines:

“If this precipitates a scare and immunization rates go down,” Murch warned, “as sure as night follows day, measles will return and children will die.”

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34 Responses to “Worries About Autism Link Still Hang Over Vaccines”

  1. David N. Brown September 30, 2011 at 08:22 #

    As I’ve commented here and elsewhere before, the basic problem with the Bachman annecdote is that retardation tends to be diagnosed LONG before the recommended age for HPV vaccination. So, where the autism claim(s) at least involves vaccines given by the time a diagnosis would occur, Bachman’s report doesn’t offer even a convincing chronological association.

    David N. Brown
    Mesa, Arizona

  2. MikeMa September 30, 2011 at 14:13 #

    Interesting, but in the long term self defeating. The value of vaccination is in its effectiveness. This is the greatest source of its long term success and short term failure. Morons can undermine vaccination with anecdotes and fear precisely because vaccines have been so successful. The rare cases of true vaccine harm are easily exploited since vaccine preventable diseases are so rare. When that changes, as it must when herd immunity drops, vaccine uptake will rise again.

    It doesn’t help that public understanding and trust of science is waning in the US. That may be the more difficult thing to re-acquire because it takes work and simple sound bites are easier.

  3. Sam September 30, 2011 at 14:21 #

    Not vaccinating your kids is like not making them wear a seatbelt in the car. Maybe they’re safe anyway, but you are risking brain damage or death–not only for them but for those around them with weak immune systems or who are too young for vaccines. Your neighbors baby might die because you think you’re too cool to vaccinate your kids against whooping cough. A must-read for parents: One family’s experience with the consequences of not vaccinating their child. http://www.npr.org/2011/01/09/132735944/as-the-facts-win-out-vaccinations-may-too

    And why is it that the people accusing “big pharma” of a conspiracy and who ask for more research on vaccines are the same people who will give untested, dangerous, expensive “alternative” treatments to their kids based on nothing but the recommendation of people getting rich off of these treatments? A man was recently arrested in Maryland for posing as a doctor and giving autistic children painful injections, costing their parents $70,000 a year. These injections have no medical science or evidence to back them up and are likely causing permanent physical damage to the kids. But hey, anti-vax has become like a cult “trust in me, only me, everyone else is out to get you.” Yeah, right.

  4. Saraquill September 30, 2011 at 14:50 #

    Why do these people want so many to die from easily preventable diseases?

  5. MikeMa September 30, 2011 at 15:11 #

    @Saraquill,
    Lots of reasons, for example:
    They do not believe many will die. Certainly not their own.
    They fear vaccines because they do not understand risk assessment.
    They take no responsibility for the well being of others in their communities, especially those unable to be vaccinated.
    They are ignorant, selfish pricks.
    They have never learned to understand science and therefore are easy prey to charlatans, con-men and fear mongers.

  6. In4md Consent September 30, 2011 at 16:53 #

    The premise of this blog is that dogma is crippling the efforts of public health officials to keep people safe from diseases that have potential dire consequence. To say that there is no data to support a causal relationship is disingenuous. There are 14 studies that bring into question the efficacy of our vaccination program with respect to a link with cognitive dysfunction. http://www.14studies.org/
    These studies, at least, bring into question the connection and the disregard of the CDC and IOM to further investigate links to ASD’s. The mistake made by the media was running with an incomplete headline. Wakefield’s observations were made with a very small set of research subjects. He wrote this in his conclusion. He never stated that MMR caused Autism, in fact, he was careful to state, that due to his findings, further research needs to be done to quantify his findings. Due to the irresponsible reporting in the UK media, this conclusion was perpetuated as a causal relationship. Wakefield and cohorts have gone on record several times backing up their observations. Pulling the paper from the Lancet was The Lancets choice and there was monumental pressure being placed on the review from the allopathic community to pull the paper. One of the pieces of research used to exonerate the vaccine autism relationship is the Dutch Study. WHy we used a study that is from another country, when we have a problem here in the states is also disingenuous. The Europeans don’t have the same vaccine schedule that we have. They perform about a third of our vaccine program. There conclusions hold little merit. And what about Hannah Polling? Gerberding, the head of the CDC vaccine program stated unequivocally that Hannah’s autism was vaccine induced due to a rare mitochondrial disorder she had. Although, I don’t understand why they called it rare when there are no screening procedures for this disorder. And what about Russel Blaylock M.D.’s work? Blaylock is a neurosurgeon who has been warning the federal scientific community for years that one shot may not make a child autistic, but a series of shots increases the potential for a child to have a reaction. His work has been in studying the effects of vaccine induced encephalitis and its effects on the brain. So, to say that there is no data to support the notion that ASD’s may be a negative effect of vaccination and re-vaccination is totally false. If you would reply I would love to ask the following questions:
    Why is vaccine safety research performed by the same company manufacturing the vaccine?
    Why do pharma companies use false placebos when testing them for safety and effectiveness?
    Why doesn’t the public know that vaccine research subjects are all healthy individuals, not underweight, immune compromised people who are generally the ones that have a side effect.
    Why did Scarlet Fever and a number of other diseases disappear without any vaccine program.
    Why is the US the most vaccinated country in the world.
    How can we know if a new born infant has a egg allergy, or a mitochondrial disorder( and don’t say post birth screening, because the Polling’s did that)
    Just a couple in a long series of questions that parents want answers to.

    • Sullivan October 3, 2011 at 06:43 #

      “Why is vaccine safety research performed by the same company manufacturing the vaccine?”

      Because they are paying for the clinical trials. Is this the only safety research? No.

      Why doesn’t the public know that vaccine research subjects are all healthy individuals, not underweight, immune compromised people who are generally the ones that have a side effect.

      Sorry, what’s that again? The common theme in the autism-parent-vaccines-cause-autism-online-community is “my kid was 100% normal/healthy/not-underweight/not-immune-compromised and then he/she got a vaccine and almost instantateously was autistic. (except when the exact same people say things completley different)

      Did measles disappear? Whooping cough? Meningitis? Did they disappear without vaccines, as you assert? If so, why do they still exist?

      Blaylock….geez. Sorry, don’t have the time or energy. Just a recommendation: find a different source for information on this subject.

  7. Chris September 30, 2011 at 17:01 #

    In4md Consent:

    He never stated that MMR caused Autism, in fact, he was careful to state, that due to his findings, further research needs to be done to quantify his findings.

    The what data was he using to support his statements that the MMR should not be used and for parents to find single vaccines at the press release? Why did he make statements at the press release announcing his Lancet paper that were not supported by that paper?

  8. David N. Brown September 30, 2011 at 17:01 #

    “There are 14 studies that bring into question the efficacy of our vaccination program with respect to a link with cognitive dysfunction. http://www.14studies.org/

    Wow. I would have expected even a driveby commenter to think twice before citing that “authority” here.

  9. MikeMa September 30, 2011 at 19:07 #

    The same frigging 14 worthless studies. Worthless and competing against hundreds or thousands of other studies refuting those claims. Wakefield was/is a fraud. His work led many to shirk vaccines leading to unnecessary disease, pain and death. He should be held criminally responsible along with the other liars and sycophants out there still pushing those lies.

  10. Chris September 30, 2011 at 19:51 #

    Perhaps this person’s ‘nym should be “misIn4md.”

  11. Chris September 30, 2011 at 19:53 #

    Oh, I missed this: “Why did Scarlet Fever and a number of other diseases disappear without any vaccine program.”

    Scarlet Fever still exists! It is a strep infection that does not get treated with antibiotics. As far as I know kids still get strep throat and other strep infections. And the “lovely” thing about the strep bacteria is that you cannot get immunity from it, which is why there is no vaccine (even though there has been lots of research on one).

    Definitely “misIn4md.”

  12. In4md Consent October 3, 2011 at 21:36 #

    Allow me to take your comments 1 at a time..

    “The what data was he using to support his statements that the MMR should not be used and for parents to find single vaccines at the press release? Why did he make statements at the press release announcing his Lancet paper that were not supported by that paper?”
    What? I think you are referring to Wakefield’s request in giving single doses spread out over months. Before the triple shot was available, the MMR was given separately. His way would have still satisfied immunization requirements. His theory was that if a child who is exposed to two or more wild viral infections around the same time is at increased risk for autism, then a child who is injected with three live viruses at the same time via MMR vaccine is equally susceptible to the ailment, if not more so.
    “Wow. I would have expected even a driveby commenter to think twice before citing that “authority” here.”
    Not as authority, as a start to a proper dialogue. The site openly discusses the controversy with some of the studies cited. Furthermore, is your mind made up? You are okay with aborted fetal cell lines, contamination, and the possibility of long term cognitive dysfunction? No comment on Polling? Oh, that actually happened too, so you can’t refute it.
    “The same frigging 14 worthless studies. Worthless and competing against hundreds or thousands of other studies refuting those claims. Wakefield was/is a fraud. His work led many to shirk vaccines leading to unnecessary disease, pain and death. He should be held criminally responsible along with the other liars and sycophants out there still pushing those lies.”
    Not even close to a hundred studies have been done to exonerate the link. The two chief papers are the “Finnish study” and “ Taylor” paper. The Finnish study, funded by Merck, identified adverse events followed by an MMR vaccination campaign in Finland during the 3 weeks post-vaccination. They found 31 individuals who experienced severe GI symptoms (diarrhea and vomiting) after MMR and noted that none had a diagnosis of inflammatory bowel disease or autism. On this basis they concluded that there was no evidence for MMR-associated inflammatory bowel disease or autism. According to Peltola et. al. they were testing the wrong hypothesis. Wakefield’s research did not suggest that acute GI symptoms within 3 weeks of MMR is a risk for Inflammatory bowel disease.
    The Taylor paper reasoned that if a causal link exists, there should have been an increase in the number of children with autism in the first group of children eligible for the triple shot. In England, MMR was introduced in 1988. The authors of the study claimed that MMR was administered during each child’s second year of life. Thus, children born in 1987 should have been the first group to show an increase in cases of autism. However, since a rise in autism began in children born a few years before 1987, they concluded that MMR could not have been responsible for the higher rate. What was later revealed about this paper was that a “catch up” campaign was instituted which targeted pre-school children of one to four years of age who had not previously received monovalent measles mumps and rubella vaccines. This was omitted in the Taylor paper. What does this prove since there were already autistic children diagnosed prior to 88’? That the monovalent MMR may have been responsible for an increase prior to 87’ for which this paper was written. Wakefield has published over 30+ accepted research studies that are in the index medicus. Many since his controversial Lancet study and yet none of his other studies have been retracted or scrutinized, NONE! That doesn’t make any of you the least bit suspicious.

    “Scarlet Fever still exists! It is a strep infection that does not get treated with antibiotics. As far as I know kids still get strep throat and other strep infections. And the “lovely” thing about the strep bacteria is that you cannot get immunity from it, which is why there is no vaccine (even though there has been lots of research on one).”What? SF is rare today and is rarely seen in hospitals. Some of the diseases we vaccinate against are bacteria(diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis and meningitis to name a few). and there are antibiotics to treat bacterial infections. What’s your point? How about MRSA and anti-biotic resistant strep aureus. We have strep in our throats every day. What’s the variable that allows strep to become infectious?

    “Because they are paying for the clinical trials. Is this the only safety research? No.”
    The fox is guarding the hen house. There are conflicts of interest in the research of vaccines that would not exist if the government would fund independent testing for their mandated programs. Using studies from other countries to exonerate a link is irresponsible and disingenuous. We are the most vaccinated country in the US, and our infant mortality rate is aligned with a handful of third world countries. Our vaccination program does not mirror anyone else’s in the world. To compare Finland and the UK to us is inaccurate due to the fact that we vaccinate far more than they do.

    “Why doesn’t the public know that vaccine research subjects are all healthy individuals, not underweight, immune compromised people who are generally the ones that have a side effect.
    Sorry, what’s that again? The common theme in the autism-parent-vaccines-cause-autism-online-community is “my kid was 100% normal/healthy/not-underweight/not-immune-compromised and then he/she got a vaccine and almost instantateously was autistic. (except when the exact same people say things completley different)”
    It is also said in the community that autism occurs around the age of two, coincidentally, when a number of vaccines are being administered. Parents are not being informed of the “one size fits all”, mentality. How would you know if your child possesses a mitochondrial disorder etc. that would predispose them to a reaction? You don’t. How many times have you taken your child to the ped and they informed you that your child has an ear infection, and your child is asymptomatic?

    Did measles disappear? Whooping cough? Meningitis? Did they disappear without vaccines, as you assert? If so, why do they still exist?
    Let’s take Measles. “From 1915 to 1958, before the measles vaccine was introduced, the measles death rate in the US and Britain had already declined on its own by 98%” International Mortality Statistics 1981:182-83.
    Pertussis- “from 1900 to 1935, before the pertussis vaccine was introduced, the death rate from pertussis in the US and Britain had already declined on its own by 79% and 82%, respectively. International Mortality Statistics(1981)by Michael ALderson.

    Blaylock….geez. Sorry, don’t have the time or energy. Just a recommendation: find a different source for information on this subject.”
    No thanks, Blaylock is a neurosurgeon quite capable of formulating an answer to why vaccines cause some children to regress into ASD’s. The key, according to Blaylock, is the repeated brain inflammation via vaccines that create permanent damage to the brain. I have a good idea, before you make up your mind on whether vaccines cause ill health and make children less healthy, read some opposing research! I am familiar with the studies that are used to exonerate the link. Are you?

    • Sullivan October 3, 2011 at 23:02 #

      “No thanks, Blaylock is a neurosurgeon quite capable of formulating an answer to why vaccines cause some children to regress into ASD’s.”

      So are about a thousand other neurosurgeons who disagree with him. He is an editor of a journal which has extremely low standards of science and responsibility (Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons).

      Let’s take Measles. “From 1915 to 1958, before the measles vaccine was introduced, the measles death rate in the US and Britain had already declined on its own by 98%” International Mortality Statistics 1981:182-83.

      The old bait and switch game. Measles didn’t disappear. Doctors got good at keeping people from dying. (in other words, it didn’t go down “on its own”). Too bad they can’t keep everyone from dying. Ever notice what happened to the incidence of measles following the introduction of the vaccine? Dropped. Like a rock.

      Could you let me know: did you actually believe this was a valid argument, or were you intending to deceive?

      “It is also said in the community that autism occurs around the age of two, coincidentally, when a number of vaccines are being administered.”

      Ah, you really don’t know what you are talking about. Autism is diagnosed around age 2. That is far different from “occurs” at around age 2.

      “. How many times have you taken your child to the ped and they informed you that your child has an ear infection, and your child is asymptomatic?”

      Zero.

      . We are the most vaccinated country in the US, and our infant mortality rate is aligned with a handful of third world countries.

      Ironic that I just blogged this, isn’t it? Completely false. Our infant mortality is clearly in the top. Infant mortality has dropped dramatically over the decades that the number of vaccines given in the US has increased.

      Seriously, if you want to sharpen your debate skills in this subject, go somewhere else. While you are clearly ignorant of the counterarguments to your own misinformation, it is not my job to make you better at spreading misinformation.

  13. Chris October 3, 2011 at 23:24 #

    MisIn4md, your rambling reply shows you know nothing about strep infections. Nor much about many bacterial diseases. Some of the ones we vaccinate for is because antibiotics don’t work, and not due to antibiotic resistance. It is because the bacteria produce toxins that antibiotics are ineffective for (just like they are ineffective for viral infections).

    But as far as:

    Let’s take Measles. “From 1915 to 1958, before the measles vaccine was introduced, the measles death rate in the US and Britain had already declined on its own by 98%” International Mortality Statistics 1981:182-83.

    Well hooray for improved hospital care! And the use of antibiotics for bacterial infections that infect persons weakened with a viral infection like measles.

    What you really need to do is search this blog and ScienceBasedMedicine for the counter arguments to your silly Gish Gallop. Plus learn how to use paragraphs, a little bit of HTML code, and basic rhetoric so we can understand what you are ranting about.

    In the mean time here is a table of the incidence (also known as the morbidity) of measles between 1912 and 1997. If you are so well informed, you can tell us why the measles rate in 1970 is only 10% of what it was in 1960.

    From http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec31.pdf
    Year…. Rate per 100000 of measles
    1912 . . . 310.0
    1920 . . . 480.5
    1925 . . . 194.3
    1930 . . . 340.8
    1935 . . . 584.6
    1940 . . . 220.7
    1945 . . . 110.2
    1950 . . . 210.1
    1955 . . . 337.9
    1960 . . . 245.4
    1965 . . . 135.1
    1970 . . . . 23.2
    1975 . . . . 11.3
    1980 . . . . . 5.9
    1985 . . . . . 1.2
    1990 . . . . .11.2
    1991 . . . . . .3.8
    1992 . . . . . .0.9
    1993 . . . . . .0.1
    1994 . . . . . .0.4
    1995 . . . . . .0.1
    1996 . . . . . .0.2
    1997 . . . . . . 0.1

  14. In4md Consent October 3, 2011 at 23:36 #

    Where is your data Sullivan?

    “Measles didn’t disappear. Doctors got good at keeping people from dying.”
    really? Public health standards had nothing to do with this? If your statement is true then why vaccinate at all? Very Ignorant Statement!

    By the way, where is your “dropping like a rock data”? I have the data, which I footnoted for you. If you had actually looked it up, the rates did not drastically decline as you indicate. They went down at the same rate and spiked in some cases.

    Please look these up. You are very misinformed at best. 2 sources on infant mortality and if you look it up yourself you will see that most, if not all, statistical sites are around the same for the US.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

    http://www.nvic.org/PDFs/Infant-Mortality-study.aspx

    We are not at the top by a long shot in infant mortality.

    I know you don’t want to hear a differing opinion because your mind is made up, but you can’t refute the data I presented.

    • Sullivan October 3, 2011 at 23:50 #

      Er, public health people are quite often doctors…they get their information quite often from doctors.

      If you had actually looked it up, the rates did not drastically decline as you indicate. They went down at the same rate and spiked in some cases.


      Figure 1 of this paper

      I don’t know your definition of a “spike”, but that isn’t one. The number of cases of measles dropped from about 200 per 100,000 to about 20 in a couple of years. The number of deaths dropped as well.

      “I know you don’t want to hear a differing opinion because your mind is made up, but you can’t refute the data I presented.”

      World bank data. Just went up this weekend on this blog.

      Your CIA data puts us towards the top. Not far behind the European Union. Are they third world in your definition?

      United States ranked 176, mortality rate 6.06

      European Union, ranked just 3 places ahead at 179 with 5.61 (and a different definition of infant mortality)

      The countries with low infant mortality rates–are 20 times and more higher. And–as I wrote about–the infant/child mortality rates in the U.S. have steadily declined in the past 50 years. Vaccine usage goes up, infant mortality rates have gone down. Did you bother to look at those data, or do you “don’t want to hear a differing opinion because your mind is made up, but you can’t refute the data I presented.”

      I have refuted your data. Before you even presented it. I have now shown that I understand it better than you do.

  15. In4md Consent October 3, 2011 at 23:49 #

    Chris,
    The data I presented is from the CDC. They are the so-called authority on vaccines. MMWR Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

    Why did the rate go down you ask? Improved sanitation, overall public health improvement, I’m sure there are many variables. The CDC shows no distinct decline in mortality and incidence upon vaccination campaigns with respect to Measles.

    So if there your facts they are real and accepted. If they are my facts, then there gish gallop because you don’t like data that challenges or refutes yours.

    Listed adverse reactions to MMR:
    Blood, lymphatic, digestive, cardiovascular, immune, nervous, respiratory, and sensory-have been linked to MMR vaccine. Source: Merck & Co., Inc. “M-M-R II Live virus” product insert from the manufacturer. PDR.

    By the way, I looked up your link. This is what I found;
    Sorry, the page you requested has either been moved or is no longer available on this server.I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, can you supply me with another reference?

  16. Chris October 3, 2011 at 23:50 #

    MisIn4md, this rambling:

    What? I think you are referring to Wakefield’s request in giving single doses spread out over months. Before the triple shot was available, the MMR was given separately. His way would have still satisfied immunization requirements. His theory was that if a child who is exposed to two or more wild viral infections around the same time is at increased risk for autism, then a child who is injected with three live viruses at the same time via MMR vaccine is equally susceptible to the ailment, if not more so.

    … did not answer my question. I did not ask for his “theory”, but his evidence. What data did he use for that “recommendation”? It was not supported by even his fraudulent paper. Come on, point us to the journal, title and date of the evidence Wakefield used to decide to play immunologist and vaccine expert (neither of which he is qualified to do).

    Oh, in the future, the National Vaccine (mis)Information Coalition is not considered a valid verifiable source of information.

  17. Chris October 3, 2011 at 23:54 #

    MisInformed:

    By the way, I looked up your link. This is what I found; Sorry, the page you requested has either been moved or is no longer available on this server.I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, can you supply me with another reference?

    Which link. http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec31.pdf still exists. It is 20th century statistics for the USA.

    By the way, you do realize that the MMR vaccine with the Jeryl Lynn mumps component has been used in the USA since 1971. This is very similar to the one approved in the UK in 1992. If you have any evidence that there was an increase of autism in the USA starting in 1971, please present it.

  18. Chris October 3, 2011 at 23:57 #

    Oh, by the way, that same USA 20th Century Census paper is also used to the graphs in this blog:
    http://www.iayork.com/MysteryRays/2009/09/02/measles-deaths-pre-vaccine/

    What caused the rate of measles in 1970 to be only 10% in 1960 in the USA, and has never been half as high again?

  19. In4md Consent October 4, 2011 at 00:00 #

    The NVIC is a non-profit watch dog. They DO NOT tell people they shouldn’t vaccinate. They have a large amount of scientific contribution from people who have initials after there names. Like the ones you seem to respect only. Wakefield did not site data supporting his assertion. Based on his understanding of physiology and his understanding of the gut, he is a GI physician,he theorized that it would be best to separate them, as oppose to, giving them all at once.
    As far as infant mortality we are not at the top as you asserted. There are still countries that exceed our rate that are, indeed, considered third world. You did not refute my data.

    • Sullivan October 4, 2011 at 00:07 #

      “Like the ones you seem to respect only”

      If that were the case, I’d use mine.

      “As far as infant mortality we are not at the top as you asserted”

      We are in the top group. Tell me, would you rather be in with the group that has infant mortality of about 6 and under, or in the group with 50 and above?

      Andrew Wakefield is not a physician in that he is not licensed to practice medicine anywhere. Andrew Wakefield’s concept of why we should separate the MMR into three shots has never been really explained.

  20. In4md Consent October 4, 2011 at 00:22 #

    That aint the top. If we immunize the most, and you assert that our vaccine programs are so effective, then why are we still behind a number of countries that are not nearly as developed as ours? I am aware of a great deal of misinformation regarding this subject, I’m also aware of the fact that there is not a lot of compelling evidence to suggest that vaccines are as safe and effective as you assert. Andrew Wakefield is continuing to perform research whether you like it or not, and he continues to defend himself. That may not sit well with you, none the less, we can see what happens when a doctor has a dissenting opinion of the status quo.

    • Sullivan October 4, 2011 at 00:29 #

      OK, so everyone below Monoco is in the third world group. Got it.

      “If we immunize the most, and you assert that our vaccine programs are so effective, then why are we still behind a number of countries that are not nearly as developed as ours?”

      One reason is that we define infant mortality different. I’ve mentioned this a number of times. You don’t appear interested in actually reading and understanding what the point of that is.

      “Andrew Wakefield is continuing to perform research whether you like it or not, and he continues to defend himself.”

      Andrew Wakefield is a fraud. He is someone found guilty of dishonesty and unethical actions in research. He continues to defend himself on radio talk shows hosted by 9/11 truthers and UFO fans and direct to youtube video interviews.

      Tell me, what research is he doing? He was let go from his post as research director of Thoughtful House. I guess that the head of ARI/DAN (Jane Johnson) is part of the establishment persecuting the man?

      Andrew Wakefield should be man enough to admit that he made some pretty greiveous mistakes. Instead he hides behind others who lie to defend him, and points the finger of blame at everyone but himself. Mr. Wakefield was never a very good researcher and has taken up way too much in resources.

      “I’m also aware of the fact that there is not a lot of compelling evidence to suggest that vaccines are as safe and effective as you assert. ”

      You are “aware” of many things which are not factual. Being “aware” is not the same thing as being correct. When you start claiming that vaccines are not effective, it is pretty clear that you have accepted “awareness” over facts.

    • Sullivan October 4, 2011 at 00:33 #

      “we can see what happens when a doctor has a dissenting opinion of the status quo.”

      Many Doctors have dissenting opinions. Dr. Wakefield’s “dissenting opinion” only served to encourage people to investigate him. It wasn’t his “dissenting opinions” that got him in trouble. It was his fraudulent activities, his dishonesty and his unethical behavior.

      Tell me, should someone who is dishonest and unethical be given a pass because they hold “dissenting opinions”?

  21. Chris October 4, 2011 at 00:30 #

    MisIn4md:

    They have a large amount of scientific contribution from people who have initials after there names.

    Which they cherry pick. See this comment on what kind of data the skip versus the stuff they include. It is pathetic.

    Barbara Loe Fisher (Arthur) is an expert in public relations, not vaccines. The co-author of the book she wrote, Harris Coulter, had a Phd in Russian Studies and Political Science. He had no medical training.

    And Dr. Blaylock has been retired for over a decade. He has no expertise in infectious disease, immunology, epidemiology or vaccine. And if you want to play the shill game: his website sells a “brain repair” supplement.

    I suggest in the future you reference peer reviewed papers indexed on PubMed. For your information, even though it is indexed on PubMed, “Medical Hypothesis” is not peer reviewed.

  22. Andrew October 4, 2011 at 01:47 #

    “we can see what happens when a doctor has a dissenting opinion of the status quo.”

    They become heroes in the press for a dozen years before anyone catches up with them, and make a tidy profit even after they’re exposed as fraud?

    • Sullivan October 4, 2011 at 02:30 #

      Andrew,

      We aren’t supposed to bring up the fact that Mr. Wakefield was doing quite well. $270,000 per year last I saw for his post at Thoughtful House.

      Does anyone know who paid for his stay in Jamaica? Remember that “conference” he was attending when he was interviewed by Anderson Cooper? It’s something like $500/night.
      http://www.tryallclub.com/

      It’s tough to be a “dissenting voice”

  23. Rosie October 4, 2011 at 08:53 #

    Chris

    The MMR vaccine you refer to containing the Jeryl Lynn strain of mumps which was licensed in the US in 1971, was licensed, but never marketed in the UK on 17th August 1972. In 1979 the rubella strain of this vaccine was switched to a different type and the ‘new’ vaccine thus became MMR II. The MMR II vaccine was granted a UK product licence on 17th August 1987 and entered the market alongside Pluserix with the notorious Urabe mumps strain, in October 1988 with the launch of the MMR campaign. Immravax, the third brand, also containing Urabe, was licensed in 1989.

    In 1992 the DOH switched to using only MMR II by which time it had been used in the UK for four years.

  24. Chris October 4, 2011 at 15:35 #

    Thank you, Rosie, for the clarification. It confirms that Wakefield could not have been studying the effects of “the” MMR when there were several being used in the UK between 1988 and 1992. And even the one after 1992 was not exactly the same as the one used in the USA since 1971.

    It seems that Wakefield was calling for the use of single vaccines spaced a year apart without any real information, even though a version had been used in the USA for almost twenty years. He had absolutely no evidence to support his contentions, other than the patent he had on a measles “vaccine” and/or treatment for inflammatory bowel disease:
    http://briandeer.com/wakefield/vaccine-patent.htm

    (if you read it, the patent says “MMR virus”, which makes absolutely no sense)

  25. Dedj October 4, 2011 at 18:55 #

    “There are still countries that exceed our rate that are, indeed, considered third world.”

    Name the exact ones you have in mind.

  26. McD October 8, 2011 at 21:34 #

    (mis)In4md, where I live, measles is back with a vengence:

    Measles outbreak hits central Auckland:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10756616

    Emergency personnel have had to be quarantined:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10754960

    The whole country is on alert:
    http://www.moh.govt.nz/measles

    This is an extract from a letter to the editor of the Waiheke Gulf News:

    “Back in the early 90’s I was in charge of Auckland University’s DNA sequencing
    facility. At the time, this was a fairly new service and we accepted jobs from
    around the country. One of those jobs came from the head of virology at Auckland
    Hospital who asked me to help identify a virus taken from spinal fluid of a
    little Maori boy who had recently been admitted with pancephalitis. We duly
    sequenced the DNA and identified it. It was entirely what the virologist had
    expected – measles.

    The thing that made the incident stick in my mind is the response I got from the
    virologist when I asked if the boy was OK. “No, he died thank God. His brain was
    soup by the time he was admitted.”

    What Ms. Stoddard seems blissfully unaware of is that a disease that is only of
    moderate risk to white, middle-class children like her own is devastating for
    non-European kids who, because of their more recent historical exposure to
    measles, have not yet accumulated genetic resistance.

    That’s why 18 people die every hour of measles worldwide (164,000 deaths p.a. –
    2008 figures). They are of course mainly poor, brown-skinned children. That
    number used to be far higher but thankfully, vaccination of 700 million kids
    brought it down from a terrifying 80 an hour in 2004 (750,000 p.a). These may be
    acceptable numbers for the pro-disease lobby, but presumably not the parents of
    the children killed.

    Make no bones about it. Measles is a dangerous disease and is being spread by
    the gratuitous ignorance of the anti-immunisation lobby and websites that are at
    best misguided and at worst untruthful.

    I wonder, Ms. Stoddard, if the parents of that little Maori boy with the
    liquefied brain `welcomed measles into their community’ like your parents?”
    —————————————

    In addition, (mis)In4md, Scarlet fever is alive and well – 3 of my brothers got it after my mum decided to use herbs and homeopathy to cure their sore throats.

    When these diseases strike, your kids may shake it off, but for my Maori family, hospitalisation and/or quarantine is the norm – especially when the babies too young to be vaccinated are struck. My youngest nephew recently barely survived a bout of chicken pox which had him hospitalised in critical condition for a week.

    Last I checked, we were not a 3rd world country, but we have an anti-vax movement trying hard to get us back there.

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