The 15-Year Fallout From One Man’s Lie About Vaccines

4 Aug

On the same day that Andrew Wakefield’s lawsuit against the BMJ, Brian Deer and Fiona Godlee was dismissed, The Atlantic has a piece: The 15-Year Fallout From One Man’s Lie About Vaccines . Who is the one man, and what is the lie? From The Atlantic:

Consider the widespread fear of childhood vaccinations. In 1998, the physician Andrew Wakefield published a study in The Lancet linking the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine to autism. This study has since been judged to be an ‘elaborate fraud,’ and Wakefield’s medical license has been revoked.

The consequences of Wakefield’s dishonesty would have been bad enough. But the legacy effect of other big lies has thus far made it impossible to remedy the damage he has caused. Given the fact that corporations and governments sometimes lie, whether to avoid legal liability or to avert public panic, it has become very difficult to spread the truth about the MMR vaccine. Vaccination rates have plummeted — especially in prosperous, well-educated communities –and children have become sick and even died as a result.

An unhappy truth of human psychology is probably also at work here, which makes it hard to abolish lies once they have escaped into the world: We seem to be predisposed to remember statements as true even after they have been disconfirmed.

Apparently The Atlantic didn’t feel the need to wait for a Texas Judge to rule before using Mr. Wkefield’s work as a prime example of a “big lie”.

The Atlantic is right. It is hard to spread the truth about MMR. Just check the comments for the article.


by Matt Carey

279 Responses to “The 15-Year Fallout From One Man’s Lie About Vaccines”

  1. Jack August 4, 2012 at 08:41 #

    Again I was wondering about the virtual silence over at AofA at the most recent news from the court in Texas. Then I read through the comments attached to the above article and see that they are still operating in Never-never-land:

    ‘Let’s face it the truth about this matter is complex as the recent High Court decision on the Walker-Smith case demonstrates. The British establishment needed to get Walker-Smith in order target Wakefield because Walker-Smith was the clinician and Wakefield the researcher, but when a High Court judge examined the case that there was research fraud or unethical procedures he could not find any evidence or support for the GMC’s determinings. Wakefield, on the other hand, was denied funding for appeal.

    This is a poor article which just perpetuates the propaganda.

    John Stone UK Editor, Age of Autism’

    • Shorty August 4, 2012 at 09:54 #

      What a fool this man Stone is. Mitting said nothing of the sort. He said the GMC panel was perfectly entitled to reach the broad conclusions that it did, but it had failed to adequately set out in its written findings the reasoning by which it had got to those conclusions.

      On a few minor matters Mitting quashed factual matters – which would have been on the basis of submissions by Walker-Smith’s counsel and a desultory appearance by GMC counsel, not on examining the evidence. A statutory appeal examining the evidence would have gone on for months, not a week. One of those factual matters was that Wakefield’s claim that his research was approved by the ethics committee was not true. Mitting’s judgment, however, rested firmly on a failure to set out reasoning.

      The GMC would have been entitled to take the case back to the panel, and have the panel set out its reasoning, but since Walker-Smith was retired and Wakefield was the point of it all, there would have been no public benefit in spending the time and money.

      I’m not sure whether Stone is too stupid to understand Mitting’s judgment, or whether he is simply a squalid liar.

      • Goldy August 5, 2012 at 06:29 #

        Perhaps you should be paying attention to the most recent news regarding the corruption of drugs companies and the government when it comes to vaccine. Of particular concern to me is the latest article: 30 Years of Secret Official Transcripts Show UK Government Experts Cover Up Vaccine Hazards To Sell More Vaccines And Harm Your Kids
        August 1, 2012 | Filed under: Health
        An extraordinary new paper published by a courageous doctor and investigative medical researcher has dug the dirt on 30 years of secret official transcripts of meetings of UK government vaccine committees and the supposedly independent medical “experts” sitting on them with their drug industry connections. If you want to get …

        Read more: http://prn.fm/tag/vaccines/#ixzz22e9C2tQw
        Under Creative Commons License: Attribution

      • Science Mom August 5, 2012 at 18:37 #

        Whatevs Goldy. Linking to a paranoid, ridiculously cited screed doesn’t warrant comment thereof. Furthermore Dr Lucija Tomljenovic isn’t a medical doctor and is a one-trick-pony post-doc in the hackneyed Chris Shaw’s lab.

      • Goldy August 6, 2012 at 00:06 #

        Dear Science Mom – I find it particularly interesting that the most vaccinated country in the world (America) has some of the worst health outcomes in the developed world. One in 18 children has allergies and one in 88 has autism. Do you really think that injecting toxic adjuvants such as Formaldeyde, Aluminium, Thimerosal (mercury) formulin, human dna from aborted fetuses, egg protein, animal viruses etc just to name a few up to 60 times before the child is even mature is going to NOT have an effect on the immune system, A recent scientific study showed: The study, Self-Organized Criticality Theory of Autoimmunity, produced a wide variety of tests on animals to examine the fact that, as they stated:

        Repeated immunization with antigen causes systemic autoimmunity in mice otherwise not prone to spontaneous autoimmune diseases.

        They concluded:

        Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host’s immune ‘system’ by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system’s self-organized criticality.Self-Organized Criticality Theory of Autoimmunity, by Ken Tsumiyama, Yumi Miyazaki, Shunichi Shiozawa

      • novalox August 5, 2012 at 23:52 #

        Thanks for the laughs, goldy. That screed was particularly funny to read, with all of the conspiracy theory and pseudoscience mixed into it.

      • Chris August 6, 2012 at 00:27 #

        Goldy, you are hilarious! Argument from blatant assertion. You don’t actually post the actual citation, but I bet it is the one where Shaw injects mice at the base of the skull? Seriously, Shaw and friends get no respect here.

      • Julian Frost August 6, 2012 at 07:25 #

        I’m not sure whether Stone is too stupid to understand Mitting’s judgment, or whether he is simply a squalid liar.

        He’s a squalid liar.

  2. Science Mom August 6, 2012 at 00:40 #

    Dear Science Mom – I find it particularly interesting that the most vaccinated country in the world (America) has some of the worst health outcomes in the developed world. One in 18 children has allergies and one in 88 has autism.

    The U.S. is the most vaccinated country in the world? You may want to check what the rest of the world is doing before making such an erroneous statment. You haven’t provided any evidence that autism and allergies are even associated with vaccination so to make such a statement of fact makes you look foolish, certainly not the only thing but you’re not off to a good start. I don’t know where you got your allergy stat from but I’d think that this is more reliable: http://www.aaaai.org/about-the-aaaai/newsroom/allergy-statistics.aspx Furthermore, the hygiene hypothesis is the most likely reason and far more biologically plausible explanation for the rise in allergies. Try looking it up and going with the actual evidence instead of following the vapid group-think.

    Do you really think that injecting toxic adjuvants such as Formaldeyde, Aluminium, Thimerosal (mercury) formulin, human dna from aborted fetuses, egg protein, animal viruses etc just to name a few up to 60 times before the child is even mature is going to NOT have an effect on the immune system,

    What is toxic about the amount of formaldehyde in vaccines? An infant’s body produces much more. What is toxic about the amount of aluminium in a suite of vaccines when an infant is born with a higher amount of blood-aluminium? What about thiomersal? Formulin [sic] is aqueous formaldehyde fool. What about DNA from foetal cell lines? Trying to imply that abortions are repeatedly performed for the purpose of vaccine developement for dramatic flare? Tell me what relevance or “toxicity” they have. Oooo egg protein, how is that toxic? What animal viruses? And what infant gets jabbed 60 times? Again, more dramatic flare and false statements. Of course vaccines have an effect upon an infant immune system, they’re supposed to ignoramus. Support your statements with actual science.

    A recent scientific study showed: The study, Self-Organized Criticality Theory of Autoimmunity, produced a wide variety of tests on animals to examine the fact that, as they stated:

    Repeated immunization with antigen causes systemic autoimmunity in mice otherwise not prone to spontaneous autoimmune diseases.

    They concluded:

    Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host’s immune ‘system’ by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system’s self-organized criticality.Self-Organized Criticality Theory of Autoimmunity, by Ken Tsumiyama, Yumi Miyazaki, Shunichi Shiozawa

    This is precisely why people like you are such a danger to yourselves and others even more ignorant than yourself. It’s bad enough when you abuse study abstracts but you have the benefit of the full text and still can’t get it right. Tell me what antigens were used in that study.

    • Goldy August 6, 2012 at 01:02 #

      I am glad I am creating amusement here – but seriously you put a lot of trust when you allow Big Pharma to create a potion to jab your kids, especially when they have proven to be so driven by money, power and corruption. Also there have never been any studies done between vaccinated and unvaccinated children. They refuse to do them …there is no shortage of unvaccinated children. The Amish do not vaccinate and they have practically NO autism. That is NOT good science. I have another concern which I would like you to debunk:Viruses used in vaccines can recombine—and get virulent
      Outbreaks of new herpesvirus in poultry traced back to merged vaccine strains. http://arstechnica.com/science/2012/07/viruses-used-in-vaccines-can-recombine-and-get-virulent/

      • Thomas August 6, 2012 at 01:25 #

        “The Amish do not vaccinate and they have practically NO autism. That is NOT good science.”

        You’re right – it’s not good science at all; it’s a complete lie that the Amish have no autism.

      • Chris August 6, 2012 at 01:46 #

        It is also a complete lie that they do not vaccinate.

      • brian August 6, 2012 at 02:00 #

        Goldy, you might want to try to wrap your head around this: you wrote that

        The Amish do not vaccinate and they have practically NO autism. That is NOT good science.

        without (1) understanding that there is clear evidence that children of Amish people are commonly vaccinated; (2) autism is not uncommon among the children of Amish people, despite Dan Olmsted’s famously minimalistic attempt at journalistic investigation; and (3) you completely missed the irony in your statement when you quite incorrectly alleged that the Amish do not vaccinate and that there is “practically NO autism” among the Amish.

        Since your understanding of the scientific evidence on this point is so obviously and completely insufficient, do you think that it would be appropriate to reevaluate the sources that you rely upon for information? Before you reply, you might want to contact the investigators at Vanderbilt University and the University of Miami who actually screened children for ASD in the Amish communities in Holmes County, Ohio and Elkhart-Lagrange County, Indiana.

        What is “NOT good science” is ignoring the evidence. Ignorance may be bliss, but it’s not really as useful as knowledge.

      • novalox August 6, 2012 at 02:12 #

        @goldy

        Thanks for the laughs. Your ignorance is highly amusing right now, good enough for a bit of laughter at your expense.

    • Goldy August 6, 2012 at 01:14 #

      Strange isn’t it – we are told not to give our infants eggs until a certain age…and yet it is quite OK to inject them. Have you ever thought that the body may reject what is foreign to itself…and that this may create autoimmune disease. Foreign proteins of all types being injected into the innocent bodies of babies and children.

      Did you know that most diseases had practically disappeared by the time they started vaccinated. Check out these scientifically referenced graphs:

      http://genesgreenbook.com/resources/obamsawin/ImmunizationGraphs-RO2009.pdf

  3. Science Mom August 6, 2012 at 01:55 #

    I am glad I am creating amusement here – but seriously you put a lot of trust when you allow Big Pharma Wakefield et al. to create a potion to jab your kids, especially when they have proven to be so driven by money, power and corruption.

    See what I did there and how well that works? Goldy, you haven’t answered any of my questions and supported any of your statements with anything substantive, just more baseless assertion. You really don’t have a clue what you are even talking about.

    • Goldy August 6, 2012 at 02:09 #

      If someone could show me a substantive study done between vaccinated and unvaccinated kids I will give you some brownie points. In my mind not having these studies is totally unscientific the shows the lack of science behind vaccines.

      • brian August 6, 2012 at 02:34 #

        You should try to understand the scientific evidence. For example consider this: http://www.aerzteblatt.de/pdf.asp?id=80869

        Simply stated, unvaccinated kids were significantly more likely to experience vaccine-preventable diseases. Surprised? OTOH, there was NO significant difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated children in the likelihood of allergic diseases, asthma, or susceptibility to “colds.”

      • Goldy August 6, 2012 at 03:59 #

        Dear Brian – I quote from your study: “In addition to atopic disorders, we further compared diseases–such as obstructive bronchitis, pneumonia and otitis media, heart disease, anemia, epilepsy, and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)–in unvaccinated and vaccinated subjects. No relevant differences in the lifetime prevalences were found, neither for different age groups nor between girls and boys. Schneeweiß et al. conducted a comprehensive literature review of vaccine safety, the central part of which was the evaluation of vaccine critical arguments on the basis of the current state of scientific knowledge. None of the hypotheses were found to be valid (5).”

        quote “Let me repeat this again. None of the hypotheses were found to be valid.

        It is true that, as large as it is, this study is relatively small given the low percentage of completely unvaccinated children. This made subgroup analysis impossible for some measures and limited the power of the analysis due to low numbers of unvaccinated children in several of the categories. After all, there were only 94 unvaccinated children, which makes it impossible to compare autism and ASD prevalence with the vaccinated cohort, because the expected prevalence of autism is only approximately 1 in 100 anyway. That means that on average roughly one autistic child would be expected in such a cohort. To look at differences in autism prevalence between the groups, many times more than 13,000 subjects would be needed, which would be a hugely expensive study, particularly if medical records and vaccination cards were reviewed for every child. This study also bolsters what I said before by showing how difficult it would be to do such a “vaxed versus unvaxed” study with sufficient subjects to provide adequate statistical power to detect even fairly large differences in prevalence. For diseases and conditions sufficiently prevalent to allow the detection of differences in the sample size the investigators had, though, there was no evidence of differences in conditions commonly blamed on vaccines between vaccinated and unvaccinated children. Certainly, this study provides no support for doing a larger study. For it to do that, there would have to be a hint of a whiff of an association between vaccinated status and the atopic diseases examined or the risk of infectious diseases not prevented by vaccines. There wasn’t. If I were on an IRB, and someone proposed doing a larger study, this German study would be an argument that there is inadequate scientific justification to do a larger study, particularly in light of other studies like this, this, and this, which suggest that early vaccination might actually be protective against atopic diseases.”

        Study of concern for me is: Monkeys Get Autism-like Reactions to MMR & Other Vaccines In University of Pittsburgh Vaccine Study
        http://vactruth.com/2012/04/29/monkeys-get-autism/

      • Science Mom August 6, 2012 at 02:37 #

        Goldy is employing evasive tactics to avoid answering the hard questions that she should have asked herself prior to vomiting out her drek. Goldy, tell me about this unvaccinated v. vaccinated study and answer the following questions:
        1. What is the study design?
        2. How many in each group would you have and why?
        3. What are your endpoint/outcome measurements?
        4. What statistical tests would you apply?
        5. What is your hypothesis?
        6. How would you recruit study subjects?

      • brian August 6, 2012 at 04:19 #

        It is true that, as large as it is, this study is relatively small given the low percentage of completely unvaccinated children.

        Indeed.

        Study of concern for me is: Monkeys Get Autism-like Reactions to MMR & Other Vaccines In University of Pittsburgh Vaccine Study
        http://vactruth.com/2012/04/29/monkeys-get-autism/

        I can offer only the advice that I received as a student at the conclusion of a seminar at Harvard: “Look to your left, then look to your right. One or both of those people should be able to explain this to you.”

      • Tsu Dho Nimh August 6, 2012 at 15:25 #

        It sounds so easy, doesn’t it … just create a randomly assigned double-blind experiment that leaves some babies unvaccinated and when they are 6 or 7 years old, compare the rate of autism to a group of children who have received the full recommended set.

        It’s not that easy, even assuming you could get approval for a study that knowingly increases the risk of illness, permanent disability and death for the study subjects, none of whom is able to give consent for themselves, by withholding a known preventive. Here’s why:

        First, you have to agree on exactly what will be called “autism” in the children, how it will be tested for, and when these tests will be done.

        Then, to make sure the results are valid, you need to enroll a large enough group of children so that the differences can’t be due to random factors. With the rate of autism estimated at somewhere between 1/88 and 1/150 (depending on whose study) you need a group of subjects large enough to reliably contain some autistic children … for the 1/150 incidence if you want to have 50 children with autism in the vaccinated group so you have a good comparison with the unvaccinated group, you need about 9,000 children in EACH group.

        Then you have to convince 18,000 parents-to-be to volunteer their baby for this study … in which they will not know whether their child is vaccinated until the child is 6 or 7.

        The parents have to give “informed consent” … they have to have the risks of each disease their child may be unvaccinated against explained to them, including the risk of acquiring it, the risks of the illness (immediate and long-term), the risks of the treatment if the child acquires it, and the risk of the vaccine against it.

        How many parents do you think you could get to not only sign the consent, but keep the child in the study if there is an outbreak, or if the child gets one vaccine-preventable disease?

  4. Goldy August 6, 2012 at 04:05 #

    Simple Science Mom – don’t need to be so complicated about it. Simply get doctors to enlist un-vaccinated kids for the study – compare an equal amount of vaccinated and unvaccinated kids – age for age – unlike the German study which had so few unvaccinated kids as to make the study a joke. Alternatively obtain a list of vaccine objectors from schools – there are many ways to find unvaccinated children in the community. Further more follow up on these children for a lifetime. not just a few weeks like the vaccine companies do now.

  5. Science Mom August 6, 2012 at 05:47 #

    Simple Science Mom – don’t need to be so complicated about it.

    Oh good grief you really don’t have a clue. Simple eh? Then why don’t you answer the most basic questions I posed to you regarding how to conduct this study. If you criticise other studies for being too small, then what sample size is enough to find what you’re looking for? Ooops, didn’t give that much thought now did you? And why don’t any of you brain trusts even know about the existence of this: http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=12211

    • Goldy August 6, 2012 at 06:06 #

      Dear Science Mom – The vaccine manufacturers have been pulling the wool over the sheeples for decades by creating false and misleading studies ie comparing one toxic ingredient in a vaccine against another toxic ingredient in a vaccine duh you don’t need to be a science grad to work out that there isn’t going to be a lot of difference. Therefore if they are smart enough to outwit the sheeples for so long, surely they can be smart enough to work out how to do a study between unvaccinated and vaccinated kids – it isn’t my job and they have the billions of bucks to pay for it…of course they won’t and never will.

      http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/back-to-basics/how-are-vaccines-evaluated-for-safety/

      • brian August 6, 2012 at 06:18 #

        it isn’t my job and they have the billions of bucks to pay for it

        Perhaps you can make similarly valuable contributions to discussions in other fields in which you can claim similar qualifications, such as theoretical physics.

    • psychtld August 6, 2012 at 23:42 #

      because Goldy is a piss-wit?

  6. Science Mom August 6, 2012 at 06:20 #

    @ Goldy, I see so you don’t know the first thing about what you are talking about, keep citing silly websites, demonstrating your glaring deficits in understanding your own citations, evading simple questions that you should have the answers for since you are demanding STUDIES but everyone else is a sheeple. And yea, it is your job and anyone else’s who is demanding such a STUDY to at the very least, have a clue of what they are actually demanding and why.

    • Goldy August 6, 2012 at 06:43 #

      Personally I am not demanding anything – I didn’t vaccinate my kids 30 years ago and they are more healthy than average with no allergies or health problems. It is you pro vaccine people who should be providing the studies if you are to remain relevant rather than providing pseudo science which is what vaccines are as there are no studies at all to prove they work. As far as glorifying the scientific credentials of Big Pharma – who after all do the studies…. they are nothing but evil scum for the most part and their studies are worth as much as dog poo on my shoo.
      http://www.naturalnews.com/036499_Glaxo_whistleblower_bribery.html

      • novalox August 6, 2012 at 06:59 #

        @goldy

        Thanks for the laughs, Natural news isn’t considered a reliable resource.

        And yawn, the old pharma shill gambit again?

  7. lilady August 6, 2012 at 06:56 #

    Goldy…You are a riot!

    Where’s that (in)famous Amish Do Not Vaccinate and Amish Children Don’t have Autism Study…principal investigator Dan Olmsted?

    http://www.whale.to/vaccine/olmsted_h.html

    How about that monkey study Goldy?

    http://www.whale.to/vaccine/sick_monkeys.html

    So, just like the sheeple you are, you’re getting your science information from a pig farmer, eh Goldy?

    • Goldy August 6, 2012 at 08:33 #

      Dear Lilady – there are links to scientific studies in these articles but in your arrogance you like to.ignore this You like to denigrate people of the basis of their activity…perhaps also their sexual preference, colour?? Look at the links but I guess you don’t want to because it might actually cause you to doubt the great God Big Pharma. Here is a little more dirt to put on the alter:

      Whistleblowing virologists sue Merck for alleged falsification of mumps data
      http://www.examiner.com/article/whistleblowing-virologists-sue-merck-for-alleged-falsification-of-mumps-data

      • Sullivan August 6, 2012 at 15:25 #

        Goldy,

        It is *you* who just crossed the line. You’re allusion to bigotry is an attack, plain and simple.

      • Chris August 6, 2012 at 17:29 #

        Which mumps vaccine strain in particular? Was it Urabe, Rubini, Jeryl Lynn or Zagreb-Leningrad? Which one of those is the safest and most effective? Do tell us, since there are several PubMed indexed review articles published in the last decade on those mumps vaccine strains.

      • lilady August 6, 2012 at 20:16 #

        Dear Lilady – there are links to scientific studies in these articles but in your arrogance you like to.ignore this You like to denigrate people of the basis of their activity…perhaps also their sexual preference, colour??

        You really have gone off the deep end Sheeple, haven’t you.

        Care to back up your remarks and your personal attack on me? What about your stereotypical rants about (sexual) activity, sexual preference and colour?

        Now, I’ve been accused of being a pharma shill, pharma slut and pharma whore and I’ve been accused of being a “devil” on a popular media website (Ho-Po), because I have spoken out about the right of people of color to have complete and accurate information about barrier methods of birth control and protection against STDs including the hepatitis B, HPV and HIV viruses. I have never been accused of not understanding the risks inherent with certain unprotected sexual activities.

        So Sheeple, how many lesbian, homosexual or bisexual people have you ever counseled?

      • lilady August 7, 2012 at 00:16 #

        Have you actually read the legal papers submitted by the plaintiffs Sheeple? I have.

        IANAL…but the papers submitted by the plaintiffs/”whistle blowers” are mighty thin gruel to base a lawsuit on. The DOJ declined to join the plaintiffs for what appears, to me. to be a case of disgruntled former employees.

        Next case….

  8. Science Mom August 6, 2012 at 15:40 #

    Dear Lilady – there are links to scientific studies in these articles but in your arrogance you like to.ignore this You like to denigrate people of the basis of their activity…perhaps also their sexual preference, colour??

    Um, I have looked at your links and asked you questions regarding one of the studies you cited and how it was relevant to vaccines. You won’t answer, just keep going off on more rants. Implying bigotry when you are the one who is voluntarily posting here and refusing to defend your statements is ridiculous and whiny. Typical ignorant anti-vaxxer who is just regurgitating tosh and doesn’t even know what that tosh is.

  9. lilady August 6, 2012 at 20:56 #

    Comment stuck in moderation, about an attack by the “Sheeple” on my personal and professional commitments to provide science-based information to people of color and to people who are gay, lesbian or bisexual.

    • Sullivan August 6, 2012 at 22:26 #

      Just released a comment that I suspect is the one you are referring to.

      • lilady August 6, 2012 at 22:43 #

        Thanks Sullivan…that’s the one.

  10. Goldy August 7, 2012 at 00:24 #

    Now, I’ve been accused of being a pharma shill, pharma slut and pharma whore and I’ve been accused of being a “devil” on a popular media website (Ho-Po), because I have spoken out about the right of people of color to have complete and accurate information about barrier methods of birth control and protection against STDs including the hepatitis B, HPV and HIV viruses. I have never been accused of not understanding the risks inherent with certain unprotected sexual activities.

    So Sheeple, how many lesbian, homosexual or bisexual people have you ever counseled?

    I’ve bee called worse than that by Psychpld
    “because Goldy is a piss-wit?” I couldn’t care less – it is like treading in dog poo – not worth worrying about – just wipe you feet and get on with it. actually I am not at all interested in how may lesbian, homosexual people you have counselled and never asked. Sexual preference has never been an issue for me as long as no one hurts anyone. Nor did I call you a Devil, pharma slut or pharma whore they are all your own words..You seem to be alluding to the HPV Vaccine – are you aware of the VAERS stats on the Sanevax site which only uses peer reviewed scientific studies.: Sanevax.org. Check the latest Vaccine Adverse Events for the HPV Vaccine:Description: this is a very unsafe vaccine
    Disabled 886
    Deaths 116
    Did Not Recover 5,373
    Abnormal Pap Smear 490
    Cervical Dysplasia 195
    Cervical Cancer 56
    Life Threatening 499
    Emergency Room 9,747
    Hospitalized 2,714
    Extended Hospital Stay 220
    Serious 3,640
    Adverse Events 26,328

  11. Goldy August 7, 2012 at 01:24 #

    Dear Lilady – I refer to your post: “So, just like the sheeple you are, you’re getting your science information from a pig farmer, eh Goldy?”

    What is wrong with Pig Farmers – have you had a bad experience with one? Ilike farmers – think they are the salt of the earth. Many of them are a lot smarter than many scientists and doctors I have found

    • Chris August 7, 2012 at 01:58 #

      Not the one who had his bum burned by a satanic ley line!

    • Sullivan August 7, 2012 at 07:33 #

      The farmers you know may very well be smarter that doctors and scientists you have had contact with.

      Or not.

      If the farmers are more knowledgable about medicine than the doctors, certainly seek out another doctor. But don’t start taking medical advice from a farmer. No disrespect to farmers. I don’t think MD’s should be giving advice on farming either.

      Mr. Scudamore is not remarkable for his incredibly bad website because he is a pig farmer. That is not why his site is not a credible source. The content of his site is why the site has such a low reputation.

      By the way, those referring to him as a “pig farmer” are being kind. He is a bigot of the first order. He hosts anti Semitic content that is nothing short of abhorrent. The prime example being “THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION” http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion#section_1

      • Goldy August 7, 2012 at 10:40 #

        Sullivan – you keep referring to this guy Skudmore. I did not refer to any article he had written. Yes he could be a fruitcake BUT the actual article I posted was from Dan Ormstead – the content which is the most relevant thing was not from Skudmore. Tell me where do you get your most trusted information from??.

      • Sullivan August 7, 2012 at 17:16 #

        Goldy,

        Check the discussion. I don’t “keep mentioning” Scudamore. That was the first mention of Scudamore I’ve made.

        Dan Olmsted’s reporting on autism has been abysmal, reckless and harmful. I’m well aware of the man and his work.

        Kathleen Seidel’s work demonstrated how a careful writer can use the space available and ability to link in the blogging medium to great effect. A well respected journalist told me her work stands well against the best the profession of journalism has to offer. Here s an early piece of hers discussing part of Dan Olmsted’s hypothesis. http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/?c=History

        Unfortunately she is not writing now.

        I try to get information from the scientific literature and from the researchers themselves. For example, I wrote about a study looking at the autism prevalence in the Old Order Amish that was presented at IMFAR a few years ago. I did contact the authors. One question I posed was whether Mr. Olmsted was aware of their work. He was. He was before his book was published. And, yet, he didn’t mention that work. He didn’t have any information directly from the Clinic for Special Children either. Instead he cited Ken Reibel’s blog.

        The problems with Mr. Olmsted’s reporting are not primarily in his sloppiness. The main problems lie in the active denial of the adult population of autistics and in the support his work gives to “therapies” some of which are outright harmful.

        And that doesn’t touch on his actions with the self proclaimed daily newspaper of the Autism epidemic. AoA is horrible in so many ways. Is that Dan Olmsted’s fault? From the outside it looks like someone else actually runs it and Mr. Olmsted writes one or two small comments a week for his little corner. I guess someone has to make sure that offshore stem cell therapy clinics send their advertising checks in. Which is a short way of pointing out that AoA pulls in advertising and sponsorship revenue (once estimated at over $100k/year) from sometimes dubious sources (anyone remember Andrew Moulden? His venture was clearly a scam and I recall him advertising there). But while they attack others for faux conflicts of interest or for being shills, they see no conflicts in their own reporting.

  12. Science Mom August 7, 2012 at 01:36 #

    Many of them are a lot smarter than many scientists and doctors I have found

    “Smarter” in the sense that they just say what you want to hear, not what you should hear. Keep getting your information from whackaloon, bigoted pig-farmers and a bunch of mummies and grammies; you’ll go far.

    • Goldy August 7, 2012 at 02:12 #

      Dear Science Mom – you are referring to Dan Olsted I presume when you talk about the “PIG FARMER” in such arrogant derogatory and dismissive terms – I think it is you wsho are bigoted. Dan Olmsted is an investigative reporter and former senior editor for United Press International (UPI), a news agency of the Unification Church company News World Communications. Olmsted wrote a series about a discredited hypothesis linking vaccination to autism. His columns on health and medicine appeared regularly in the Washington Times, also owned by the church, and were syndicated nationally from UPI’s Washington D.C. bureau. He currently owns and edits the Age of Autism website, which he describes as the “Daily Web Newspaper of the Autism Epidemic”. Why didn’t you just refer to him as an investigative reporter??

      • Chris August 7, 2012 at 03:35 #

        No, we are referring to John Scudamore the guy who runs whale.to. You would have known that if you had clicked on the link. Here is a another link:
        http://www.whale.to/b/cbblack.html

  13. Science Mom August 7, 2012 at 04:10 #

    Dear Science Mom – you are referring to Dan Olsted I presume when you talk about the “PIG FARMER” in such arrogant derogatory and dismissive terms – I think it is you wsho are bigoted.

    Blimey you have got to be kidding me. Dan Olmsted is a tosser in his own right but I know he isn’t a pig farmer, although he does bring a rather porcine odiferous quality to his so-called “investigative journalism”. The man walked right past the clinic in Amish country where autistic children are treated. By the way, Olmsted was unceramoniously sacked from his UPI post and hasn’t done anything of any import or respect since.

    Why didn’t you just refer to him as an investigative reporter??

    Heh, you probably think Jake Crosby is an “investigative reporter” too. But more to the point, I asked you several specific questions that you should know the answers too but never received them, why is that? You may start with what antigens were used in the study you linked to and go from there m’kay?

    • Goldy August 7, 2012 at 05:20 #

      Which mumps vaccine strain in particular? Was it Urabe, Rubini, Jeryl Lynn or Zagreb-Leningrad? Which one of those is the safest and most effective? Do tell us, since there are several PubMed indexed review articles published in the last decade on those mumps vaccine strains.

      Why is this relevant to the fact that Merck vaccine fraud exposed by two Merck virologists; company faked mumps vaccine efficacy results for over a decade, What are you getting at? I am aware of the Urabe strain of the mumps:

      JAB RISK WAS IGNORED

      Sunday Express, April 1, 2001

      TWO YEAR DELAY OVER DANGER MMR VACCINE STRAIN

      Up to two million children were knowingly put at risk by the former Government with a vaccine which causes meningitis.

      The MMR jab, known as the Urabe strain, was still approved by Tory ministers for two years after some children developed a form of meningitis after receiving it.

      And the Government’s own figures show that 20,000 infants probably suffered side-effects from the drug which can also cause deafness, brain damage, loss of speech and epilepsy. A Sunday Express investigation has discovered that at least eight children died after receiving the jab and many others suffered permanent damage.

      The brand of the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine was manufactured at that time by drug giants GlaxoSmithkline and Aventis Pasteur.

      It was introduced in Britain in 1988 and given to up to one million children a year as part of the Governement’s routine vaccination programme.

      In 1990, scientists from the Queen’s Medical Centre Nottingham found some children developed a form of meningitis after receiving it. But despite this the Government went on using it for more than two years.

      The Canadian Government, also using the vaccine, immediately switched to a safer version. It was not until September 1992 that the UK Department of Health issued pharmacists with emergency supplies of a safer brand with instructions to withdraw existing batches.

      The then Chief Medical Officer Dr Kenneth Calman insisted that giving children the vaccine had been safer than not doing so.

      Research by The Sunday Express has found at least eight died and many suffered permanent damage including deafness, convulsions and speech problems – all known after-effects of meningitis. Jackie Fletcher from the pressure group JABS, which aims to highlight vaccine risks said: “The Urabe jab has affected a whole generation of children. I can’t believe the Government continued to use it when they knew they were risking lives.”

      GlaxoSmithkline is still selling the Urabe strain to Argentina, Chile, Haiti, Honduras and Lebanon. A Department of Health spokesman said that, according to its research, children did not s

      • Chris August 7, 2012 at 06:12 #

        Merck never used the Urabe strain. You obviously do not have a clue.

      • Chris August 7, 2012 at 06:17 #

        Oh, and you also missed that those clowns claimed there was fraud in efficacy by Merck… yet I mentioned there were several studies on all of those strains on PubMed over the last decade. That is public knowledge, that you were too lazy to look for.

      • Chris August 7, 2012 at 17:07 #

        Here is what is really funny over the hand-wringing from the UK switching away from the two Urabe containing MMR vaccines in 1992: when Wakefield told parents to get single jabs, private clinics illegally imported a single mumps vaccine. It was the Urabe strain.

        Hence this warning:

        The Committee on Safety of Medicines (CSM) has advised that Urabe mumps vaccine is associated with an unacceptable risk of aseptic meningitis and that the Medicines Control Agency (MCA) should object to importation of unlicensed mumps vaccine containing the Urabe strain of mumps virus. On the basis of that advice, the MCA has today contacted importers notifying them that the vaccine should not be imported.

      • Chris August 7, 2012 at 17:28 #

        I guess parents actually paying more for single vaccines, and actually having their child vaccinated with a more dangerous mumps vaccine could be considered another fallout from Wakefield’s lies.

  14. Goldy August 7, 2012 at 06:27 #

    I never claimed Merck did the Urabe vaccine was a separate issue. Why would I want to go to PubMed to look at studies done over the past decade – I am concerned about the latest findings of corruption involving Merck vaccines not old stuff.

    • Goldy August 7, 2012 at 11:01 #

      :”Dear Lillady in reply to your statement

      ” I have spoken out about the right of people of color to have complete and accurate information about barrier methods of birth control and protection against STDs including the hepatitis B, HPV and HIV viruses. I have never been accused of not understanding the risks inherent with certain unprotected sexual activities”

      I hope you are not advising them to have the HPV vaccine as it is extremely dangerous. Sanevax.org publishes the VAERS report and the latest figures are quite frightening. Yes I am sure you will come up with the usual saying it isn’t a valid site, but it is independent and science based

      .Description Total
      Disabled 886
      Deaths 116
      Did Not Recover 5,373
      Abnormal Pap Smear 490
      Cervical Dysplasia 195
      Cervical Cancer 56
      Life Threatening 499
      Emergency Room 9,747
      Hospitalized 2,714
      Extended Hospital Stay 220
      Serious 3,640
      Adverse Events 26,328

    • Julian Frost August 7, 2012 at 11:20 #

      @Goldy:

      am concerned about the latest findings of corruption involving Merck vaccines not old stuff.

      Excuse me? The Justice Department decided not to proceed. That’s hardly a “finding of corruption”.
      Once again, you distort the facts to fit your preconceived notions.

      • Goldy August 7, 2012 at 12:54 #

        Julian…The DOJ has not stated anywhere, that they found the allegations false, or that they REFUSED to join the case.

        If the DOJ had actually found the case “was entirely without merit, and had absolutely no basis in fact”, they would not have wasted two years. Wouldn’t they have filed a motion to dismiss the case? Wouldn’t the Department of Justice have then clearly stated to the media, that the case had no merit?

        We’d have heard about it by now, if the case had no merit.

        What did they do? The Department of Justice reserved the right to join in the case at any time in the future, and then allowed the complaint to be unsealed so that it could then go to trial. Which by the way, is where the LEGAL merits of the case will be decided. We already know the medical merits of the Merck Mumps vaccine, because the lack of efficacy of the mumps vaccine has been pointed at in the medical literature since 1998.

      • Lawrence August 7, 2012 at 14:31 #

        @Goldy – if, after two years the Department of Justice declined to either prosecute or join the case, it is highly unlikely that they will suddenly decide to enter the fray, unless additional evidence is uncovered during discovery.

        Having been involved with multiple Federal investigations, the amount of information that the DOJ attorneys must have reviewed would be breathtaking – the equivalent of several tractor trailers worth of paper is fairly typical.

        Multiple senior attorneys would have to sign off, either way, and if insufficient evidence or no evidence was found, there would be no reason to proceed and waste more resources on the case.

        After that, there would be no reason to prevent the two employees from going ahead on their own, hence the unsealing of the case and allowing it to proceed.

        DOJ cannot comment on pending litigation, especially litigation that is not a party to – their action of not joining the case speaks louder than any statement they might issue.

      • Sullivan August 7, 2012 at 17:25 #

        The substitution of “finding” for “accusation” is problematic. And Goldy has dodged that.

        If any of the accusations are true, they are quite serious. Both directly and in breaching the public trust. Case in point, this discussion. What does a lower efficacy of mumps have to do with autism (the primary focus of this blog) or Mr. Wakefield’s actions? Nothing. But it feeds the “vaccines and drug makers are bad” theme.

        One wonders how the Goldy’s of the world feel about men who heard that there was a potential problem with the Urabe strain mumps vaccine, were in position to act on that information, and, instead kept that information from the public’s eye for years while they pursued their own theories.

      • Chris August 7, 2012 at 17:32 #

        One wonders how the Goldy’s of the world feel about men who heard that there was a potential problem with the Urabe strain mumps vaccine,

        There are those who were suing for the damage done by the Urabe mumps strain using the legal fund which Richard Barr paid Wakefield from. Apparently they were dropped when the whole mess was revealed, and they were left holding the bag.

        One of those parents has posted on this blog (Wendy?), and they are bringing back that legal issue. Yet, another fallout of Wakefield’s lies.

  15. Science Mom August 7, 2012 at 14:42 #

    @ Goldy, There is a huge monetary incentive for whistleblowing, which is fine but not every whistleblower case has merit. And “not going to PubMed because you want current information” in this case is dishonest for Chris is right, many publications are there demonstrating the lowered effectiveness of Merck’s MMR. It will behoove you to know the difference between efficacy and effectiveness also.

    Instead of going off on so many tangents, which I presume are to obfuscate your ignorance on the topic, could you please address the questions I asked first?

    • Chris August 7, 2012 at 16:59 #

      many publications are there demonstrating the lowered effectiveness of Merck’s MMR.

      And the same strain of mumps in MMR vaccines, plus the other strains used all around the world. It is not a secret. In fact, one review/commentary was looking at the data and proposing its replacement with another, even though the one used in Merck is among the most effective.

      Though I am not going to tell Goldy which is which, because he/she needs to learn how to find those things. And it is obvious that the “whistleblowers” who have not worked at Merck for ten years should have figured out how to find that research.

      • lilady August 8, 2012 at 01:17 #

        It is so (painfully) obvious that Goldy gets all his/her science information from some of the “notorious anti-vaccine websites” and other crank websites.

        Goldy, you really need to step up your game, on this particular website. Stick around, to see how real pros dissect the crap that you read and parrot from those “notorious anti-vaccine” websites.

        Did Goldy *really think* that a reference from John Scudamore from whale.to is reliable?

        BTW Goldy, Dan Olmsted is only half a step removed from Scudamore.

      • Goldy August 8, 2012 at 02:35 #

        Dear Lilady – To answer your accusation that my information is from spurious sources – sometimes maybe – but have you thought about where you get your info from? Is this information independent and not receiving money from a conflicting source? Please suggest some that you think I would benefit from. Almost all studies on vaccines are done by the vaccine makers themselves. Big Pharma has a terrible track record of corruption and greed…think Vioxx 60.000 dead and nobody went to jail. – and I suspect you and your cartel on this site are associated heavily with Big Pharma. How are we to trust the makers of vaccines when they corruptly influence the outcome? to quote from PubMed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16889157
        Publication bias in the pulmonary/allergy literature: effect of pharmaceutical company sponsorship.

      • Sullivan August 8, 2012 at 06:05 #

        Keep focused on the sources of the research if you wish. I think it’s misplaced. The quality of the research is more important. Laura Hewitson’s research wasn’t poor because she was working with Andrew Wakefield. It was poor because the study design, execution and interpretation were fatally flawed. Just as an example.

        “big pharma” has it’s shameful moments, no doubt. As does “little pharma”. It recently came to light that a homeopathy group had paid someone to set up faux support websites. (Little) Pharma Shills in action. Believe me, the irony was noted after years of false accusations directed at me. Is that corruption the reason why homeopathy doesn’t make sense? No. It’s the lack of biological plausibility and the lack of supportive data.

      • Chris August 8, 2012 at 03:38 #

        . Almost all studies on vaccines are done by the vaccine makers themselves.

        Look at this list. Now show us which ones were by the vaccine makers. Actually give us the title, journal and date of the study, and the cut and paste from the article the pharmaceutical funding source. And for good measure, make sure you click on the link at the bottom of the page to the studies from 1998 to 2003.

        Do look at them a bit closer than Dr. Bob did.

  16. McD August 8, 2012 at 01:21 #

    The study Science Mom linked to above is underway here:
    http://www.nationalchildrensstudy.gov/Pages/default.aspx

    Everything Goldie asked for and more.

    • Goldy August 8, 2012 at 02:43 #

      Dear Md – this looks good. However it cannot be an independent study if it is receiving money from Big Pharma and other companies that definitely will influence the study. It must be independant of funding from all sources if it is to be believed. I quote from the study information:
      Public-private partnerships are mechanisms that allow for involvement of private, commercial, and not-for-profit organizations to support the National Children’s Study in a variety of ways. These include direct funding of portions of the Study as well as in-kind contributions of goods or services. During the Vanguard phase, proposal and funding of Supplemental Methodologic Studies is an opportunity for partners to directly support a focused methodological inquiry. For the Main Study, proposal and funding of Adjunct Studies is a similar option. Regarding goods and services, examples might be provision of gifts of appreciation or funding seasonal gatherings for Study participants. Opportunities for public-private partnerships will evolve in accordance with the progressive status of the Study.

      • Sullivan August 8, 2012 at 05:42 #

        ” It must be independant of funding from all sources if it is to be believed.”

        No source of funding? That’s an impossible requirement.

        You left out an important phrase: “by me”. As in “…if it is to be believed by me”. You don’t speak for everyone.

  17. Science Mom August 8, 2012 at 05:41 #

    Everything Goldie asked for and more.

    I see Goldy has initiated plausible deniability should anyone she or her fellow anti-vaxxers even fart in the general direction of the NCS. Oh well, others will benefit even if the Goldies of the world wish to keep their heads firmly lodged up their bums.

    • Sullivan August 8, 2012 at 06:10 #

      Add to this the themes:

      “we want long term studies, but not that long term study”

      And

      “we want long term studies, but we don’t want to wait for the results”

  18. Science Mom August 8, 2012 at 06:53 #

    Gah, that should be:

    I see Goldy has initiated plausible deniability should anyone she or her fellow anti-vaxxers don’t like even fart in the general direction of the NCS.

  19. Jack August 8, 2012 at 07:13 #

    ‘The 15-Year Fallout From One Man’s Lie About Vaccines’ continues:

    London Evening Standard 8th August 2012: ‘Website to remove MMR autism claim’

    ‘ A website offering parents advice on childhood immunisation has been ordered to remove information about the MMR vaccine after renewing claims that it could be linked to autism.

    Babyjabs.co.uk said the vaccine “could be causing autism in up to 10% of autistic children in the UK”. It also said: “Most experts now agree that the large rise (in autism) has been caused partly by increased diagnosis, but also by a real increase in the number of children with autism.”‘

    http://www.standard.co.uk/panewsfeeds/website-to-remove-mmr-autism-claim-8015885.html

    • MikeMa August 8, 2012 at 12:07 #

      Reality is popping up all over! Very good news.

    • Science Mom August 8, 2012 at 15:56 #

      Oh my, whatever will Child Health Safety do now?

      • Jack August 8, 2012 at 16:28 #

        Pathetic:

        ‘The vaccine was introduced into the UK in 1988 without adequate safety testing.1 Not one of the safety trials on the MMR ‘actively’ followed up the vaccinated children for more than six weeks, and most no longer than three weeks.2 The trials would not have been able to detect either rare, or long-term, side effects of the vaccine, such as autism and bowel disease…’

        ‘How safe is the MMR vaccine? Can the vaccine cause autism?

        Fears were aroused that the vaccine might be causing autism and bowel disease in some children following the publication of research in 1998.5 At the sane time Dr Andrew Wakefield, one of the paper’s authors, recommended giving the three single vaccines separately, instead of the triple MMR. This suggestion has been strongly rejected by the government and medical establishment. Though most parents continued to give their children the MMR vaccine, the single vaccines have remained in demand, with more than 1 in 20 children being given at least one of the single vaccines.6

        At around the time of the introduction of the MMR, the number of cases of autism being diagnosed started to increase dramatically, and some feared that the MMR might have triggered this rise. There is uncertainty over whether the rise is all due to increased diagnosis or whether some of the rise is real. Research, including large population studies, has since shown that the MMR is not causing the large majority of autism, but has been unable to exclude the possibility that it is causing autism in a small number of susceptible children.7 8 9 10

        The Advertising Standards Authority has ordered BabyJabs to remove information relating to the alleged link between the MMR vaccine and autism. Though the medical authorities strongly refute any link between the MMR vaccine and autism we note that an Italian Court, based on independent medical advice, ruled in March 2012 that the MMR vaccine had caused autism in a 9 year old boy.11

        http://www.babyjabs.co.uk/mmr.htm

      • Brian Morgan (@BRIANM0RGAN) August 8, 2012 at 16:32 #

        Haven’t look at CHS site for a long time – but just now see nothing posted there since July 15th 2012. I guess Miller has been too busy on the Wakefield case. Now he’ll be working on the appeal I guess.

  20. Goldy August 9, 2012 at 13:43 #

    To quote Science mum “What is toxic about the amount of formaldehyde in vaccines? An infant’s body produces much more. What is toxic about the amount of aluminium in a suite of vaccines when an infant is born with a higher amount of blood-aluminium? What about thiomersal? Formulin [sic] is aqueous formaldehyde fool. What about DNA from foetal cell lines? Trying to imply that abortions are repeatedly performed for the purpose of vaccine developement for dramatic flare? Tell me what relevance or “toxicity” they have. Oooo egg protein, how is that toxic? What animal viruses? And what infant gets jabbed 60 times? Again, more dramatic flare and false statements. Of course vaccines have an effect upon an infant immune system, they’re supposed to ignoramus. Support your statements with actual science”

    OK here is some – is Pub Med good enough for you?

    .An association between neurodevelopmental disorders and thimerosal-containing DTaP vaccines was found, but additional studies should be conducted to confirm and extend this study.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12773696

    • Chris August 9, 2012 at 15:44 #

      First point: thimerosal was removed from pediatric vaccines a decade ago. Sallie Bernard of SafeMinds requested help to get DTaP with thimerosal in 2001.

      Second point: what is the status of Dr. Geier’s medical license, and even legal opinion about his research? At the present he is prohibited from practicing medicine in several state, including Maryland, and he cannot give “expert” testimony in most vaccine court cases.

      • Lawrence August 9, 2012 at 17:02 #

        Let’s see – the Geiers (one of whom isn’t even a doctor) were pushing “chemical castration” as a treatment for what they thought caused autism……not to mention the whole license suspension, etc…..not exactly a trustworthy source.

    • Sullivan August 9, 2012 at 17:17 #

      Goldy,

      Does research have to be performed free of conflicts of interest? I seem to recall you making that point above. If so, how do you reconcile tgat thought with a team (the Geiers) who have a strong financial stake in the resesrch they publish? Dr. Geier has worked for about 20 years as an expert witness in the vaccine court. Papers such as this are tools in that trade as well as resume filler for the “expert” witness position. He and his co-author son sued the plaintiff’s attorneys in the Omnibus Autism Proceeding, claiming that their work, their research, should be paid for.

      And that doesn’t touch on their questionable behavior as witnesses, researchers and medical “practioners” (quotes added since D. Geier has no medical background but is accused of pracricing medicine)

    • Science Mom August 10, 2012 at 00:27 #

      You cited the Geiers?! Bwahahaha
      And what Sullvan said.

  21. Brian Morgan (@BRIANM0RGAN) August 10, 2012 at 12:21 #

    I have this sort of suspicion that Goldie is a troll actually intent on undermining the AoA tribe of trivialisers by posting such easily discredited material here. It would be great to read some solid, well researched scientific evidence as to the over-all harm caused by vaccination but all we see is the same already discredited material. I know that’s what AoA want to see and promote, but the wider audience has moved on a bit, I think.

  22. humanati August 12, 2012 at 13:45 #

    This site is run by paid sock puppets & is looking more fake by the day, even comical.

    To those people who are behind it, I want you to know that when I was looking for help, information & treatment for my son, I naively believed you were sincere & consequently I delayed getting biomedical treatment for him for 2 years.

    When I realised what this & other sites were about, I found him treatment using natural supplements, natural vitamins & chelation & it has changed his & our lives forever.

    He is in recovery & has learnt to read & write in the last 2 years. He is funny, spontaneous, sensitive, loving, mischievous…

    He kisses & hugs us when he goes to bed every night. He tells us how he’s feeling & wants to know how we feel too.

    I thank God for all the parents & doctors who care about the truth & who are trying to stop other children being vaccine injured.

    When you care about the truth, it starts to become very easy to see someone that doesn’t , but being professional liars you probably don’t get that do you?

    I tell you this because I want you feel ashamed for your parts in the vaccine induced brain damage of my beautiful son.

    I want you to change & stop doing what you are currently doing, because you are perpetrating the deliberate harm, & denial of treatment of untold numbers of our children.

    Whatever they are paying you it’s not enough.

    Even though I am so angry about what was done to my son, I can honestly say that I would never wish harm on any of your children & would not collude to keep the truth from anyone.

    If any of you reading this decided at any time to work FOR children & parents, instead of for the companies responsible, you would be welcomed & respected by us & I hope you will think about it because it’s never too late to do the right thing & act with your conscience.

    My son’s name is Jack. He’s just turned 18. If you met him, I don’t think you could do what you are doing.

    I am not looking to score points with anyone & I doubt if I will engage with anyone here.

    I don’t want more lies please. That is the worst thing you could do in response to my appeal because I would know my words had been for nothing.

    I just want you to do the right thing & stop the lies. Please stop.

    Thank you.

    • Thomas August 12, 2012 at 14:13 #

      “This site is run by paid sock puppets & is looking more fake by the day, even comical.”]

      If you really believed this, you wouldn’t bother posting here – after all, a paid shill site would hardly allow a post exposing them to remain up on the site.

      “I am not looking to score points with anyone & I doubt if I will engage with anyone here.”

      I doubt it too. If you engaged with us, you would risk learning that you are wrong – and that is too scary to imagine, isn’t it.

      “My son’s name is Jack. He’s just turned 18. If you met him, I don’t think you could do what you are doing.”

      Yes – once I had an autistic child, I started taking the issue of vaccines very seriously – when Wakefield and others lie about the causes of autism, they are lying about my child – and that I will always fight.

      • humanati August 12, 2012 at 14:59 #

        “If you really believed this, you wouldn’t bother posting here – after all, a paid shill site would hardly allow a post exposing them to remain up on the site.”

        You’re wrong on both counts.

        “I doubt it too. If you engaged with us, you would risk learning that you are wrong – and that is too scary to imagine, isn’t it.”

        Oh, you have decided already that I’m wrong? Wow, that’s amazing.
        The truth doesn’t scare me.
        I realised a long time ago that only the truth would allow me to help Jack & that is the most important thing in the world to me.
        It has allowed me to help my son recover from vaccine induced autism & he continues to do so. 🙂

        Or am I wrong about that as well?

        “Yes – once I had an autistic child, I started taking the issue of vaccines very seriously – when Wakefield and others lie about the causes of autism, they are lying about my child – and that I will always fight.”

        How old is your child may I ask Thomas?
        Have you accessed any treatment for them that has helped them at all?
        Andrew Wakefield isn’t a liar & everyone knows that despite all efforts by people like you.
        One day, soon, he will be exonerated & those involved in bringing false charges will be seen for what they are & held responsible.
        You see, you’re still not getting it are you?
        We know the agenda behind this website & the tactics used.
        It’s not working anymore because the truth is becoming known.
        It only had an effect when people like me were ignorant & naive.
        Truth has it’s own momentum & a power that disinfo & lies do not.

        As a parent of an autistic child, why aren’t you happy or interested in my son’s recovery? This seems odd. I am always so pleased when I hear or see a child in recovery whereas you can only think of proving me ‘wrong’?

        Hmmm, I almost want you to be a sock puppet because if you’re not, you’re weird.

    • MikeMa August 12, 2012 at 14:34 #

      @humanati
      You of course have some documentation for your claims of paid sock puppetry, right?

      And you have looked at the pure goodness of the natural supplement industry, right?

      When you believe in magic over science, you eventually lose everything.

      • Thomas August 12, 2012 at 15:15 #

        “Oh, you have decided already that I’m wrong? Wow, that’s amazing.
        The truth doesn’t scare me.”

        You decided that everyone who disagrees with you is paid to lie – and you’re shocked that I dare decide that you’re wrong?

        “As a parent of an autistic child, why aren’t you happy or interested in my son’s recovery? This seems odd”

        There are plenty of people selling cures for autism complete with testimonals about recovery. Last month it was bleach enemas, next month who knows what it will be.

        “Hmmm, I almost want you to be a sock puppet because if you’re not, you’re weird.”

        Yep – not being interested in yet another miracle cure with no evidence is definitely ‘weird’.
        “Truth has it’s own momentum & a power that disinfo & lies do not.”

        That I agree with – notice how this blog doesn’t censor opposing views, while Age Of Autism boasts of doing so.

      • humanati August 12, 2012 at 15:15 #

        So my son isn’t in recovery, MikeMa?

        Documentation? Have you been watching Judge Judy again?

        Science has it’s place when it is grounded in truth & integrity but it can be corrupted just like anything else but my son is in RECOVERY & everyday more & more children are joining him.

        Once again, absolutely NO INTEREST in my autistic son recovering from something that is supposed to be incurable?

        No curiosity, no compassion or happiness…

        Weird isn’t it, don’t you think?

        Have I walked into Stepford Wives or what?

  23. humanati August 12, 2012 at 15:31 #

    You decided that everyone who disagrees with you is paid to lie – and you’re shocked that I dare decide that you’re wrong?

    Did I? I thought I said this was a PHARMA front site to spread DISINFO.That doesn’t mean everyone who comes here is on the payroll does it, Thomas?

    So let me try to understand what you’re saying.

    Because I expressed my belief that LBRB is PHARMA FUNDED DISINFO, you tell me instantly that I’m wrong about my son & show zero empathy, or scientific curiosity in his RECOVERY.

    So you would have been really pleased for me if I hadn’t said LBRB was DISINFO then?

    And no I’m not shocked by your reaction but thought it was interesting & worth acknowledging… I think other parents would too

    • MikeMa August 12, 2012 at 15:35 #

      Project much?

      • humanati August 12, 2012 at 17:59 #

        Er, yeah, will try get back to you on that one Mikey.

    • Thomas August 12, 2012 at 15:37 #

      “Because I expressed my belief that LBRB is PHARMA FUNDED DISINFO, you tell me instantly that I’m wrong about my son & show zero empathy, or scientific curiosity in his RECOVERY.”

      Nope – because claims of recovery are a dime a dozen, the existence of one more claim without any evidence is just not that interesting.

      “So you would have been really pleased for me if I hadn’t said LBRB was DISINFO then?”

      Oh, I’m pleased whenever an autistic child gets better. But you claim that not all parents can be trusted – you claim that Kev and Sullivan, who are parents of autistic children, are being paid off. If you’re right that not all parents should be trusted – why should I believe you?

    • Lawrence August 12, 2012 at 16:02 #

      You are aware that autism is evidenced by “developmental delay” not developmental stasis, right? There are thousands of autistic adults who may have started out extremely non-verbal or suffering from any number of developmental issues, but over time were able to progress – through therapies, but more often than not, on their own, to lead almost completely normal lives.

      Your embrace of quack “cures” means nothing in the face of evidence that they have no means to address the dysfunctions of autism (including chelation, chemical castration, stem cells, etc) – your son is progressing along as the vast majority of autistic children do – in fits and starts, but moving in a positive direction.

      Your accusations really mean nothing here, but it isn’t anything we haven’t already heard before. When you have no evidence, just go ahead & accuse your opponents of being in the pay of “Big Whatever.”

      Get some facts and perhaps we can talk – until then, you are deluded.

      • Jack August 12, 2012 at 17:30 #

        ”I am not looking to score points with anyone & I doubt if I will engage with anyone here.”

        I guess, Humaniti, you chose to plough ahead anyway, although for me ‘engagement’ would suggest a positive exchange of views and information and I can’t see that has happened.

        It is always good to hear of any child improving. What isn’t so good is hearing from parents their ringing endorsements of remedies that they believe are responsible without also hearing from them any expression of caution or self-doubt in that belief.

        Trouble is the same happens outside of autism. It is a pandemic – this spread of alternate ‘treatments’. Parental or patient testimonies trumpeted loudly by those selling these non-researched-non-clinically-trialled lotions and potions and hands-on therapies or treatment plans appeal to desperate parents and patients alike.

        If any of these products or the personalities pushing their notions were really as good as are claimed they would be welcomed by the medical profession as standard treatments. Those touting them would use some of their financial gains or the funds raised from campaigning to fund objective research and blinded trials and work with the medical authorities to gain regulatory approval or advance medical knowledge.

        Relying solely on patient testimony, on the feeling from parents and patients that they or their child are being ‘helped’ by any remedy, or treatment plan, is not the way to ensure your product receives validation. And that leaves me to believe they don’t want to go down this route – they’re quite happy where they are living off of desperation and false hope. It leaves patients and children open to exploitation either financial or in terms of their health.

        You perhaps also need to bear in mind that many people expressing doubt about the many claims being made for alternate remedies and routes of treatment have themselves been through all of the desperation-fuelled search before.

        The people claiming cures or effective treatments without valid research to back up their products need censoring. We might live in a free market economy – but in doing so we are embracing exploitation. I was reading only yesterday of a treatment, a product, claimed to be 100% effective against cancer, that is now being equally touted for ME.

        If you have a wonder product or treatment plan – prove it is as effective as you say, otherwise expect to be called on it. We all want to get better or see our loved ones recover, we all feel the frustration of a medical system that doesn’t make us well – but placing your faith in something medically unproven and then recommending it to others as if it is the be-all-and-end-all deserves more consideration than Tupperware.

      • humanati August 12, 2012 at 18:21 #

        Oh, I’m aware of what autism is Thomas, sorry Lawrence, my son was diagnosed with it after being vaccinated, remember?

        Thanks for the ‘masterclass’ & the offer of a chat, but I learnt a long time ago talking to liars is a waste of life.

        Talking to liars who also get off on the deliberate poisoning, maiming & murder of children doesn’t do it for me either, maybe in another life when you’ve learnt a few lessons about being a human being?

        Oh, & thanks for the desperate attempt to reframe my son’s RECOVERY as just another stage in his diagnosis. Amazing how you guys seem to know more than his Dad does about him. Usually even a doctor requires an assessment before making a diagnosis.

        You even managed to diagnose me too.

        And Lawrence, you aren’t my opponent. My son is getting better because I went where the truth took me You’re just a Pharma rent boy who puts a price on your soul & the lives of children & until that changes, you can suck on my sack.

        The truth is coming to get you boys & that should worry you because people who hurt children aren’t very popular where you boys are heading…

        & all the fake, bought & paid for ‘science’ won’t prevent your house of cards falling down…

  24. Jack August 12, 2012 at 18:35 #

    Gods. Just when you think you’ve heard it all. You know, Humanti, I really am pleased every time I hear of anyone feeling they have recovered. I choose to draw the line when people start telling me of their personal convictions in unproven ‘woo’ beliefs. There are a great many people I am sure who feel that their diagnosis was as a result of a vaccination. It is I think only human to try and tie things down to a specific event and blame said event for their woes. But thinking it was so is not the same as proving it. And despite what you belief has fixed this issue you cannot prove it has and neither can those pushing the fix. But if at the end of the day your son has recovered – well that at least is to be welcomed – it just cannot be used as evidence of any cure or definitive treatment.

    • Lawrence August 12, 2012 at 21:30 #

      Wow – and we get accused of being vile, humanati’s rant is certainly one for the books…..

      • Thomas August 12, 2012 at 22:15 #

        “Talking to liars who also get off on the deliberate poisoning, maiming & murder of children doesn’t do it for me either, maybe in another life when you’ve learnt a few lessons about being a human being”

        Humanati: Thank you for demonstrating your real nature. I apologize for trying to talk to you like an adult – it was clearly wasted effort . I’ll pray for you and your son.

      • humanati August 12, 2012 at 23:32 #

        Lawrence, Thomas, trying to take the moral high ground really doesn’t suit you & I’m sure I’m not the only one who sees the irony of you both trying…

  25. Science Mom August 13, 2012 at 00:45 #

    Science has it’s place when it is grounded in truth & integrity but it can be corrupted just like anything else but my son is in RECOVERY & everyday more & more children are joining him.

    Eighteen years old and still being “recovered”? Gee where have I heard this before.

    • Sullivan August 13, 2012 at 01:50 #

      All,

      You might consider reading some of Humanati’s comments elsewhere and decide how much of your time this discussion is worth:

      http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/06/an-open-letter-to-the-national-institutes-of-health-54-of-american-children-suffer-from-chronic-heal.html?cid=6a00d8357f3f2969e201538f6ac2fd970b#comment-6a00d8357f3f2969e201538f6ac2fd970b

      “When the conspirators get ready to take over the United States they will use fluoridated water and vaccines to change people’s attitudes and loyalties and make them docile, apathetic, unconcerned and groggy. According to their own writings and the means they have already confessedly employed, the conspirators have deliberately planned and developed methods to mentally deteriorate, morally debase, and completely enslave the masses. They will prepare vaccines containing drugs that will completely change people. Secret Communist plans for conquering America were adopted in 1914 and published in 1953. These plans called for compulsory vaccination with vaccinescontaining change agent drugs. They also plan on using disease germs, fluoridation and vaccinations to weaken the people and reduce the population.”
      The Impact of Science on Society, London 1952, by Bertrand Russell

      This YouTube channel belongs to “the humanati”

      http://m.youtube.com/user/pimpdarlin?client=mv-google

      A video by David Ayoub is one of the less “out there” videos.

      • humanati August 13, 2012 at 02:12 #

        Wow, thanks for the plug!

        Don’t forget to like & subscribe now!

        🙂

      • Brian Morgan (@BRIANM0RGAN) August 13, 2012 at 14:51 #

        I have a copy of Bertrand Russell’s The Impact of Science on Society, the AMS Press, New York edition, 1968. This edition is said to be from the original 1953 edition. I can’t find the quote: “When the conspirators get ready … ” in this AMS edition. Can someone help me locate the actual words in a version of the book? The words do not show up in any Google searches as originating in any edition of the book. Other quotes I’ve checked do show up.

      • Brian Morgan (@BRIANM0RGAN) August 13, 2012 at 15:39 #

        Referring to my search for the passage quoted originally by humanati said to be from the Bertrand Russell book The Impact of Science on Society, I’m afraid to say this bothered me a little. I have though found an index to the original UK edition, compiled by Roma Hutchinson (it’s on http://digitalcommons.mcmaster.ca/ and a search should find it – it’s a very long URL otherwise).

        The index explains that only one passage was omitted from earlier editions and that one is not the one I am looking for.

        There is no sign of any of the key-words in the alleged “conspirators take over the USA” passage. I do strongly believe now that this passage is not a genuine extract. It is however very widely quoted as if it were real – I’ll await humunati’s response.

      • Sullivan August 13, 2012 at 17:56 #

        Thanks for this. I was very curious as to whether this was a real quote. I too found it often repeated, but I wasn’t able to check a primary source.

    • humanati August 13, 2012 at 02:10 #

      Huh? Jack started treatment just under 3 years ago & his Mum & I both consider him to be in recovery, but I keep forgetting that you people know my son better than my wife & I know him don’t you?

      For people that make repeated references to ‘science’ & ‘evidence’ you seem to possess supernatural diagnostic powers & as I’ve already mentioned, your response to my testimony of my son’s RECOVERY just tells me so much about your obvious but undisclosed agenda.

      So please, carry on with the ad hominems & appeals to ridicule…

      So do you all work from home or do you work together in some kind of shill call centre?

      Or is there just 1 or 2 posting under different names?

      You’re all very active & attentive for a Sunday aren’t you?

      I’m flattered really, but you really should think about getting out more perhaps?

      • novalox August 13, 2012 at 02:59 #

        @humanati

        Yawn, typical troll behavior.

        Do try a little harder next time, little troll, I do need amusement, and you seem like the perfect mark for some laughs.

  26. Science Mom August 13, 2012 at 02:50 #

    Huh? Jack started treatment just under 3 years ago & his Mum & I both consider him to be in recovery, but I keep forgetting that you people know my son better than my wife & I know him don’t you?

    Nah, just know your story as it is a meme in the biomeddler circles. Let me get this straight, “vaccine-induced brain damage” as an infant/child and you’re only now getting around to chelating the poor fellow and is “recovering” as a teenager? Gosh, who knew that autism wasn’t a neurological stasis and autists don’t make advancements all on their own.

    So do you all work from home or do you work together in some kind of shill call centre?

    Or is there just 1 or 2 posting under different names?

    This is also very unoriginal and typical of paranoid-types who can’t actually present support for their claims. For your information, most who post here are very intelligent, caring, accepting parents of special needs children who just don’t find your spittle-flecked rants to be very original or convincing.

    • Goldy August 13, 2012 at 13:54 #

      While in western countries government officials and their corporate sponsors aggressively resist conducting the studies comparing health of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children , such studies have been, in fact, conducted in Africa. Below is the abstract of one such study from Guinea-Bissau, which shows doubling of mortality rate among infants vaccinated with a single dose of DTP vaccine, and more than quadrupling after the second and third dose. VAERS data also show high infant mortality in the US after DTP vaccination (much higher than from pertussis, diphteria and tetanus together, hence it is clear that DTP vaccine is harming more children than saving. In the EU, there is a relatively high incidence of pertussis (more than 20 000 per year), but total mortality due to this disease was 4 in 2009. At the same time, infant mortality index in western EU countries is 2 or 3 times lower than in the US. These data speak for themselves.

      Int J Epidemiol. 2004 Apr;33(2):374-80.

      The introduction of diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine and child mortality in rural Guinea-Bissau: an observational study.

      Aaby P, Jensen H, Gomes J, Fernandes M, Lisse IM.

      Bandim Health Project, Apartado 861, Bissau, Guinea-Bissau. psb@mail.gtelecom.gw

      Comment in:

      Int J Epidemiol. 2004 Apr;33(2):381.

      Abstract

      BACKGROUND: and objective Previous studies from areas with high mortality in West Africa have not found diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis (DTP) vaccine to be associated with the expected reduction in mortality, a few studies suggesting increased mortality. We therefore examined mortality when DTP was first introduced in rural areas of Guinea-Bissau in 1984-1987. Setting Twenty villages in four regions have been followed with bi-annual examinations since 1979.

      SUBJECTS: In all, 1657 children aged 2-8 months. Design Children were weighed when attending the bi-annual examinations and they were vaccinated whenever vaccines were available. DTP was introduced in the beginning of 1984, oral polio vaccine later that year. We examined mortality for children aged 2-8 months who had received DTP and compared them with children who had not been vaccinated because they were absent, vaccines were not available, or they were sick.

      MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE: Mortality over the next 6 months from the day of examination for vaccinated and unvaccinated children.

      RESULTS: Prior to the introduction of vaccines, children who were absent at a village examination had the same mortality as children who were present. During 1984-1987, children receiving DTP at 2-8 months of age had higher mortality over the next 6 months, the mortality rate ratio (MR) being 1.92 (95% CI: 1.04, 3.52) compared with DTP-unvaccinated children, adjusting for age, sex, season, period, BCG, and region. The MR was 1.81 (95% CI: 0.95, 3.45) for the first dose of DTP and 4.36 (95% CI: 1.28, 14.9) for the second and third dose. BCG was associated with slightly lower mortality (MR = 0.63, 95% CI: 0.30, 1.33), the MR for DTP and BCG being significantly inversed. Following subsequent visits and further vaccinations with DTP and measles vaccine, there was no difference in vaccination coverage and subsequent mortality between the DTP-vaccinated group and the initially DTP-unvaccinated group (MR = 1.06, 95% CI: 0.78, 1.44).

      CONCLUSIONS: In low-income countries with high mortality, DTP as the last vaccine received may be associated with slightly increased mortality. Since the pattern was inversed for BCG, the effect is unlikely to be due to higher-risk children having received vaccination. The role of DTP in high mortality areas needs to be clarified.

      PMID: 15082643 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE

      • Science Mom August 13, 2012 at 18:05 #

        Keep trying Goldy and try reading the whole study. No statistical significance and a whole lot of confounders not accounted for along with high drop-out rates. Using VAERS to make a case is not appropriate either as it’s a passive surveillance system and has been shown to be warped by litigious actions. Get it through your thick head that you don’t have the capacity to argue facts and as such, you are listening to the wrong people.

    • humanati August 13, 2012 at 20:33 #

      “Nah, just know your story as it is a meme in the biomeddler circles.”

      Yeah, that’s because it’s true, it’s happening & children are being recovered with biomedical treatment all over the world as the truth becomes known & it represents the final nails in the coffin of the crude propaganda efforts you & others peddle.
      It also brings closer the day when you are all held accountable for your part in wilfully perpetrating iatrogenic genocide of millions of children.

      “Let me get this straight, “vaccine-induced brain damage” as an infant/child and you’re only now getting around to chelating the poor fellow and is “recovering” as a teenager? Gosh, who knew that autism wasn’t a neurological stasis and autists don’t make advancements all on their own.”

      Your attempts to mock me & my son with more appeals to ridicule are noted & I will leave it for any parents of autistic children reading your words to judge you & your motives for attempting to do so.

      I know the truth now because my son is RECOVERING & because I know the truth, I see you for what you are & despite what you may posture as here, you know the truth too don’t you!

      You are paid to deceive, attack, smear, & confuse any one who threatens your PHARMA-PIMPS massive profits & power & it’s truly abhorrent.

      When enough people know the truth, & we are fast approaching a critical mass, then all those involved can expect to be held accountable for your actions…

      Truth is the new black. Whether you know it or not. Whether you care or not.

      Our children recovering from vaccine injury through biomedical treatment means an end to the lies & corruption you & this site represents but it also means consequences for those who were involved in the greatest iatrogenic harm ever inflicted on humanity & the psychopathic & ultimately sad people who knew, but decided to take a dollar from the man & to cover it up rather than remember their humanity & do the right thing…

      • Science Mom August 14, 2012 at 00:13 #

        Yeah, that’s because it’s true, it’s happening & children are being recovered with biomedical treatment all over the world as the truth becomes known & it represents the final nails in the coffin of the crude propaganda efforts you & others peddle.
        It also brings closer the day when you are all held accountable for your part in wilfully perpetrating iatrogenic genocide of millions of children.

        Cute talking points but vapid as hell. You obviously failed to understand my point, which is that biomeddlers don’t understand a few things, a.) Autism isn’t a developmental stasis, many/most children will progress on their own and/or with therapies. b.) Biomeddlers don’t actually “recover” their children; I’ve seen so many reports from parents themselves of so-called “recovery” going on year after year. How is that recovery? and c.) autism isn’t vaccine injury, besides you can’t “recover” from such a vague and inconsistent “diagnosis” and using your children as guinea pigs for your little shoppe of horrors is abusive and probably impedes any progress they would make on their own. Think about the way it makes them feel, like they are damaged and need to be fixed. Yea, there will be accounability all right, just not who you think.

        “Let me get this straight, “vaccine-induced brain damage” as an infant/child and you’re only now getting around to chelating the poor fellow and is “recovering” as a teenager? Gosh, who knew that autism wasn’t a neurological stasis and autists don’t make advancements all on their own.”

        Your attempts to mock me & my son with more appeals to ridicule are noted & I will leave it for any parents of autistic children reading your words to judge you & your motives for attempting to do so.

        Why don’t you correct me then? Or do I have the right of it? Your child was “vaccine-injured” as an infant and you are just now getting around to “recovering” him?

        You are paid to deceive, attack, smear, & confuse any one who threatens your PHARMA-PIMPS massive profits & power & it’s truly abhorrent.

        Really? Damn. Where do I pick up my cheque?

  27. Brian Morgan (@BRIANM0RGAN) August 13, 2012 at 19:21 #

    Reply to: Sullivan
    August 13, 2012 at 17:56 #
    Thanks for this. I was very curious as to whether this was a real quote. I too found it often repeated, but I wasn’t able to check a primary source.

    It’s too often the case that citations are neither checked nor even available to check on the other site – AoA. It is not a reliably sourced Daily Web Newspaper for the autism community.

    See here: http://www.badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30154 at response #23

  28. Brian Morgan (@BRIANM0RGAN) August 13, 2012 at 19:24 #

    Oh and by the way, just in case I am challenged over an undisclosed conflict of interest, even though Bertrand Russell was born in Wales and died here, where I was born and live, I don’t have any knowledge of any relationship between his family and mine – but anything is possible.

  29. Goldy August 14, 2012 at 00:09 #

    Chris – Thank you for the list I did have a thorough look and really wonder if any of it has any substance at all due to the proven conflict of interest which has corrupted the whole science, Big Pharma, Medical Journal alliance. I do know that our kids are getting sicker and sicker – you can’t rule out that some children are more susceptible than others to toxic assault direct into their blood stream from vaccines. Yes these substances do enter the body via the stomach but in nature not by direct injection into the blood. The increasing number of vaccines being forced upon our children – no follow up or studies. You guys only accept studies from sources that are funded by Big Pharma such as BMJ. Your list mentioned Brian Deer who was obviously funded by Sunday Times – or more specifically James Murdoch – who was on the Board of Glaxo Smith Kline. So…there is conflict of interest land corruption ooozing out of this case. I only trust independant news sources and there are some good ones….but of course not good enough for you guys.

    BMJ admits it concealed Merck and Glaxo payments during its slanderous Dr. Wakefield-MMR articles
    Posted on March 17, 2012 by The Refusers
    MB Comment: The British Medical Journal (BMJ) did not disclose that it had major financial conflicts of interest in the character assassination articles it published about Dr. Andrew Wakefield. They finally just acknowledged this. Now we need full and complete financial disclosure information from Brian Deer, the author of those articles – who most likely has been on the payroll of vaccine manufacturers.

    The Deer/BMJ Wakefield articles have been absorbed and regurgitated by mainstream media outlets. The biased BMJ articles have deliberately fostered inaccurate public confidence in the safety of the MMR vaccine.

    The BMJ also claimed that these scurrilous articles were peer-reviewed. The latest filings in Wakefield’s Texas lawsuit reveal that the so-called external peer reviewer (Dr. Marcovitch) was a BMJ associate editor with pharmaceutical industry conflicts of interest.

    With this disclosure, it is clear that the BMJ is simply a propaganda rag for MMR vaccine manufacturers Merck and Glaxo. The editor Fiona Godlee should be fired and investigated for corruption.

    *******************************************************************************************

    British Medical Journal (BMJ) March 15, 2012

    ‘The BMJ should have declared competing interests in relation to this editorial by Fiona Godlee and colleagues (BMJ 2011;342:c7452, doi:10.1136/bmj.c7452). The BMJ Group receives advertising and sponsorship revenue from vaccine manufacturers, and specifically from Merck and GSK, which both manufacture MMR vaccines. For further information see the rapid response from Godlee (www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.d1335.full/reply#bmj_el_251470). The same omission also affected two related Editor’s Choice articles (BMJ 2011;342:d22 and BMJ 2011;342:d378).’

    Read the article

    • Chris August 14, 2012 at 01:27 #

      Thank you for the list I did have a thorough look and really wonder if any of it has any substance at all due to the proven conflict of interest which has corrupted the whole science, Big Pharma, Medical Journal alliance.

      List the paper and cut/paste the part where it is funded by Big Pharma.

      Posted on March 17, 2012 by The Refusers

      I believe that Scopie’s Law can be expanded to include Mr. Belkin and his friends. The six degree of separation game means nothing.

      Again, list the paper and cut/paste the part where the declarations show they are funded by Big Pharma. Here is an example: Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story. Here is the list of affiliations, please point out which one is a pharmaceutical company, and support your statement with real evidence:

      Gangarosa International Health Foundation and Rollins School of
      Public Health, Emory University, Atlanta, GA, USA (Prof E J Gangarosa MD);
      World Health Organization, Geneva, Switzerland (Prof A M Galazka MD);
      Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Georgia (GA), USA (C R Wolfe BA, R T Chen MD, L M Phillips MPH);
      PHLS Communicable Disease Surveillance Centre, London, UK (E Miller FRCPath)

      • Goldy August 14, 2012 at 03:19 #

        Chris – there is no way in the world you would be able to find the sources of funding for this study you refer to – I can say that the anti vaccine movement is not responsible for the ever escalating and more virulent forms of petussis. When a child gets a childhood disease they are immune for life. My kids did get pertussis and with excellent nutrition, vitamin D, Vit C they had no problems at all. Had I vaccinated the immunity would have been short lived. You will never get all the adult population to vaccinate so they would be at constant risk of getting it and passing it on throughout their lives. Also nature has a way of outsmarting man made science. Most of the kids getting whooping cough in some states were fully vaccinated – IT DOESN’T WORK – or it requires constant never ending jabs full of toxins for the rest of one’s life.

        In early 2010, a spike in cases appeared at Kaiser Permanente in San Rafael, and it was soon determined to be an outbreak of whooping cough — the largest seen in California in more than 50 years.

        Witt had expected to see the illnesses center around unvaccinated kids, knowing they are more vulnerable to the disease.

        “We started dissecting the data. What was very surprising was the majority of cases were in fully vaccinated children. That’s what started catching our attention,” said Witt.

        To figure out just how well the vaccine was working, Witt and his colleagues collected information on every patient who had tested positive for pertussis between March and October, 2010.

        Of the 132 patients under age 18, 81 percent were up to date on recommended whooping cough shots and eight percent had never been vaccinated. The other 11 percent had received at least one shot, but not the complete series.

        The rate of cases for each age, two through 18 years old, peaked among kids in their pre-teens.

        Among fully immunized kids, there were about 36 cases for every 10,000 children two to seven years old, compared to 245 out of every 10,000 kids aged eight to 12.

        “The longer you went from your last vaccine, the greater your risk of disease,” Witt told Reuters Health.

        At age 13, the number of cases dropped, presumably because that’s the age when children are eligible for their booster shot.

        Comparing the kids who got pertussis to the more than 22,000 kids in the medical center’s database who didn’t, Witt’s group wrote in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases that the vaccine is effective about half of the time for all kids, and just 24 percent of the time in the eight to 12 year old age group.

        “For pertussis, having even 24 percent helps (mitigate an epidemic), but you’d sure like it higher than that,” he said.

        Dr. Tom Clark, a medical epidemiologist with the CDC, said it’s understood that vaccine protection wanes over time.
        http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-whoopingcough-idUSBRE8320TM20120403

      • Goldy August 14, 2012 at 03:50 #

        New Study In Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health Links Autism Prevalence and Vaccination
        Positive Association found between Autism Prevalence and Childhood Vaccination
        A study just published in the Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health finds a relationship between the proportion of children who received the recommended vaccines by age 2 years and the prevalence of autism (AUT) or speech or language impairment (SLI): The higher the proportion of children receiving recommended vaccinations, the higher was the prevalence of AUT or SLI. The results suggest that although mercury has been removed from many vaccines, the remaining mercury as well as other culprits such as aluminum and live viruses may link vaccines to autism. Further study into the relationship between vaccines and autism is warranted.

        A Positive Association found between Autism Prevalence and Childhood Vaccination uptake across the U.S. Population
        Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, Part A: Current Issues
        Volume 74, Issue 14, 2011, Pages 903 – 916
        Author: Gayle DeLonga
        DOI: 10.1080/15287394.2011.573736

        Abstract
        The reason for the rapid rise of autism in the United States that began in the 1990s is a mystery. Although individuals probably have a genetic predisposition to develop autism, researchers suspect that one or more environmental triggers are also needed. One of those triggers might be the battery of vaccinations that young children receive. Using regression analysis and controlling for family income and ethnicity, the relationship between the proportion of children who received the recommended vaccines by age 2 years and the prevalence of autism (AUT) or speech or language impairment (SLI) in each U.S. state from 2001 and 2007 was determined. A positive and statistically significant relationship was found: The higher the proportion of children receiving recommended vaccinations, the higher was the prevalence of AUT or SLI. A 1% increase in vaccination was associated with an additional 680 children having AUT or SLI. Neither parental behavior nor access to care affected the results, since vaccination proportions were not significantly related (statistically) to any other disability or to the number of pediatricians in a U.S. state. The results suggest that although mercury has been removed from many vaccines, other culprits may link vaccines to autism. Further study into the relationship between vaccines and autism is warranted. To read the abstract click HERE.

      • Chris August 14, 2012 at 05:03 #

        How in the world does a paper from a professor of finance who used to be on the board of SafeMinds tell me what pharmaceutical companies are actually disguised as public health agencies?

        Are you daft? Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Or are you totally incapable of thinking for yourself?

      • Chris August 14, 2012 at 05:06 #

        Come on! She thought any child who had speech and language services was automatically autistic. This would be a big surprise to my daughter’s hard of hearing friend who really only needs hearing aids. Or to my younger very extremely normal son who had a slight language delay. Or two the young lady with cerebral palsy that was in my son’s swimming class.

        Seriously, Goldy, have you ever tried to open your mind and think for yourself instead of being spoon-fed the nonsense from Age of Autism?

    • Julian Frost August 14, 2012 at 06:58 #

      @Goldy:

      I do know that our kids are getting sicker and sicker

      Show us proof. Also, show us proof that this is due to the vaccines you so hate and not to things like a junk food laden diet and sedentary lifestyle.

      The increasing number of vaccines being forced upon our children – no follow up or studies.

      False. Go to PubMed and look. You will find that every time a new vaccine is introduced it is studied and extensive follow-up is done.

      You guys only accept studies from sources that are funded by Big Pharma such as BMJ

      On second thought, don’t bother. You’ll just dismiss the data there as corrupt.

      BMJ admits it concealed Merck and Glaxo payments during its slanderous Dr. Wakefield-MMR articles
      Posted on March 17, 2012 by The Refusers

      The Refusers? You expect us to believe that when The Refusers are your source?
      I’m done with you. You have made up your mind that vaccines are “teh eeevilz”, you are regurgitating talking points that we have seen and refuted literally hundreds of times; you source your data from liars with an axe to grind; and no amount of evidence will remove that “idee fixee” from your skull.

      • Goldy August 14, 2012 at 14:34 #

        Chris OK Lets go straight to the source
        http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.d1335.full?tab=response-form#bmj_el_251470.

        Kids are getting sicker probably from environmental factors, junk food, chemicals, pesticides. The vaccines are just another chemical overload that can tip them.

        Vaccines are tested for a short while before being released into the general population. For instance Gardasil is just an experiment. No one knows what is going to happen.

      • Chris August 14, 2012 at 19:08 #

        Notice how you listed the response form link, and to the actual article:
        http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.d1335.extract

        Now let us look at what the first paragraph says from that BMJ news article says:

        Free medical journals with drug advertising were significantly more likely to recommend specific drugs that were advertised on their pages than were journals that relied upon subscription fees to cover their operating costs.

        Goldy, what was the word that I put in bold? Is the BMJ a free medical journal? What you did by using just the response from of the article was a “lie of omission.”

        Goldy, you were just caught lying (again). Why should we believe you?

      • Chris August 14, 2012 at 19:10 #

        Reply in moderation. The first sentence of that BMJ news article says: “Free medical journals with drug advertising were significantly more likely to recommend specific drugs that were advertised on their pages than were journals that relied upon subscription fees to cover their operating costs.”

        I sincerely doubt that the BMJ is a free medical journal.

      • Sullivan August 14, 2012 at 19:18 #

        Not in moderation any more 🙂

      • Chris August 14, 2012 at 19:11 #

        Third try: that article starts with “Free medical journals.”

      • Chris August 14, 2012 at 19:52 #

        Thanks, Sully. I thought that Goldy’s deception should be revealed.

  30. lilady August 14, 2012 at 05:13 #

    @ Goldy: You really are scraping the very bottom of the barrel with your reference to Ms. DeLong’s bogus research.

    Gail DeLong’s paper was covered on this science blog one year ago.

    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/06/08/more-bad-science-in-the-service-of-the-discredited-idea/

    Scroll on down Goldy…to see how Ms. DeLong posted on that blog…and how she quickly retreated…after being thoroughly drubbed for her crappy study.

    • Goldy August 14, 2012 at 14:49 #

      I find the discrediting of Gail DeLong’s paper full of the usual unsubstantiated bullying that happens after anyone should dare upset the sacred shrine of the poison needle. I read the anonymous post and Mr Anonymous didn’t substantiate any of his criticisms.

      Kids are getting sicker probably from environmental factors, junk food, chemicals, pesticides. The vaccines are just another chemical overload that can tip them.

      Vaccines are tested for a short while before being released into the general population. For instance Gardasil is just an experiment. No one knows what is going to happen. Gardasil vaccine was fast tracked to licensure by the Food and Drug Administration in 2006. It contains genetically engineered virus-like protein particles (VLPs) and aluminum, which affect immune function. The exact mechanism of protection is unknown and the vaccine has not been evaluated for the potential to cause cancer or be toxic to the genes.

      • Goldy August 14, 2012 at 15:08 #

        Re Gail DeLong’s paper – “Autism is primarily a communication disorder so it’s not unreasonable to lump it in with language disorders. In fact lumping the two disorders together makes the measurement more robust and reliable. Are there people with speech/language disorders who don’t have autism? Yes. But there are also people diagnosed with autism who don’t have autism and people never diagnosed who do. The diagnosis is very subjective so using multiple measures is wise. Autism is a vaguely defined elusive trait and it sounds like most of the criticism here is definitional not substantive”.

      • Science Mom August 14, 2012 at 15:59 #

        She used anyone with a language impairment as an autism diagnosis. If you can’t see something vastly wrong then I don’t know what else to tell you. Besides, she didn’t include a single conflict of interest in the “study”. Don’t you lot howl on about such things? Orac critiqued the methodology of the paper and explained what was wrong with it; you just don’t like that you keep producing rubbish references. And that’s what you get when you don’t read critically.

      • Sullivan August 14, 2012 at 16:44 #

        In moving the blog we lost a lot of uploaded files. Luckily I still had the graphs for this post and I was able to re-insert them.

        https://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2011/07/08/a-positive-association-found-between-autism-prevalence-and-childhood-vaccination-uptake-across-the-u-s-population-2/

        The DeLong paper isn’t even self-consistent. The prediction from the model doesn’t fit the data. The largest changes in vaccine uptake were in the first couple of years of the study (as expected given the rather unique definition of vaccine uptake). The autism rates don’t track the increases year-by-year as her model would predict.

        This is the sort of paper that really made me question the validity of the vaccine hypothesis. On so many fronts, it is just such a bad attempt at using a scientific journal to make an argument that just doesn’t work.

      • Goldy August 15, 2012 at 01:35 #

        Conflict of interest is an interesting point of debate. Those arguing against vaccines, including websites such as those you do not acknowledge, do not have any financial gain from arguing against vaccines. The only point most of the people who have these sites are trying to make is that there are a lot of very sick children, we need to look urgently into the cause, Not only sick children but sick adults. A friend of mine had to have a full battery of vaccines to work in the Health Department. One month later his thyroid collapsed and he developed auto-immune disease. Of course no one connected the vaccines because it was one month after. However it could have been, this sort of thing is not being picked up. This is why it is critical that a long term studies be kept of health of all vaccinated and non vaccinated children for at least 20 – 30 years and comparisons done. Without the study we will never know – we are just being experimented on. On the other hand the Government (because it indemnifies Pharmaceutical companies) has a big incentive not to look at damaged children. The Pharmaceutical companies have massive profits – as well as children and adults who are customers for life. They will use all their money and lawyers – even pay people to discredit people like me. However the internet is something they cannot shut down and alternative sites are becoming more and more vocal – so I feel unless vaccines change and become safer – we will look back in 30 – 50 years time with shame at what has happened to the health of the human race. No doubt better genetic testing will be able to pick up more and more viruses being transmitted by the vaccines themselves – (rememebr SV40 virus in the polio vaccine) we know vaccine makers are unable to screen them all out – these could combine and become more virulent, as they already have in chickens. So much is unknown…we are are just petri dishes in the hands of greedy scientists.

      • Sullivan August 15, 2012 at 02:44 #

        ” Those arguing against vaccines, including websites such as those you do not acknowledge, do not have any financial gain from arguing against vaccines’

        You appear to have a unique viewpoint on the term “financial gain from arguing against vaccines”. NaturalNews, AoA, and others (see, I just acknowledged them) gather revenue from advertisements. AoA represents people fighting for compensation both within and without the vaccine court.

        “His thyroid collapsed”? My guess is that you mean something different than this.

        This being an autism site, how about we talk about studies of autism risk? As in two candidates were proposed for increasing autism risk from vaccines–MMR and thimerosal. Both have been studied. Repeatedly. Then again. No increased risk.

        Since there are very limited pharmaceutical treatments for autism, what exactly is the financial gain for pharmaceutical companies? There is a gain for “little pharma”, those promoting alternative treatments and supplements. The advertisers for those sites you claim have no financial interest in the discussion. So, is Big Pharma making kids autistic so that little pharma can reap the financial gains?

      • Goldy August 15, 2012 at 03:47 #

        Sullivan – when children receive vaccines – they may come down with a whole spectrum of disorders which can are not traceable back to vaccines because of lack of studies. It is a scientific fact that children who get natural childhood diseases such as measles have less asthma – now the immune system is like an army – it needs to have challenges and childhood diseases, chickenpox, mumps, measles etc are natures way of priming the immune system. The healthy child given an excellent diet and not deficient in Vit D will not have any problems and will be immune for life – will not suddenly get these diseases in adolescence or later in life when they are more dangerous. This is what happens with the vaccines – they are a short fix solution. The Pharmaceutical industry feeds of the broad spectrum of diseases – such as asthma, auto-immune disease, cancer and others that vaccines are implicated in. The SV40 virus is still being found in brain tumors.

        Also of great concern to me is that vaccines are now being made in China and will increasingly be made in China. China has a terrible record of safety and cost cutting. Think of the Melanine scandal in children’s milk. God knows what is going to be in the vaccines – what contaminants – one thing is for sure I have not had a vaccine for 60 years and I never will have one. My grandchildren are very healthy – and hopefully will not get vaccinated. Yes they have had the childhood diseases and with lots of good food, sunshine, sailed through with no problems.

        PRESS RELEASE
        May 28, 2012, 5:53 a.m. EDT
        China Human Vaccine Industry Report, 2011-2012

        NEW YORK, May 28, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ — Reportlinker.com announces that a new market research report is available in its catalogue:

        China Human Vaccine Industry Report, 2011-2012

        http://www.reportlinker.com/p0512477/China-Human-Vaccine-Industry-Report-2011-2012.html #utm_source=prnewswire&utm_medium=pr&utm_campaign=Drug_and_

        After decades of development, China has become one of the major producer and consumers of human vaccine around the world. In 2011, human vaccine manufacturers numbered 38 in China and the lot release quantity of human vaccine footed up to roughly 770 million person-portions, with market size reaching around RMB1 billion. Moreover, being restricted by the barriers such as vaccine industry policy, technology and capital, it is not easy for companies to set foot in this field and the industry has been with high profitability as a whole. From 2007 to 2011, the gross margin of vaccine business of major manufacturers basically maintained above 60%, and some enterprises such as Walvax Biotechnology and Liaoning Chengda even enjoyed the gross margin of as high as 90% or so.

        Although Japanese Encephalitis Vaccine, Hepatitis A Vaccine and Influenza Vaccine have been exported to other countries, they are mainly consumed in China. However, China’s vaccine supervisory system was approved by the WHO in March 2011, which may eventually open the door for Chinese vaccines to be distributed globally. In 2011, Tiantan Biological signed a cooperation agreement on oral polio vaccine (OPV) with Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, according to which, the company will annually supply 160 million OPV doses for United Nations International Children’s Emergency Fund (UNICEF) at the negotiated price after its Yizhuang-based Vaccine Workshop is built and has its vaccines “pre-qualified” by the WHO.

        The report not only highlights the domestic and international operating environment, overall situation and market supply & demand of Chinese human vaccine industry, and market segments and prospects of 10 vaccines, but also analyzes the competition pattern, as well as operation, advantages and new product R&D dynamics of 11 human vaccine manufacturers.

        Affected by the economic level, the national vaccination policy and the public awareness of epidemic prevention, the real vaccination is still mainly concentrated in EPI vaccine. The ratio between the lot release quantity of EPI and Extra EPI vaccine was 3:1 in 2010 which was raised to 4:1 in 2011, similar to that in 2009. Additionally, EPI vaccine market in China is almost monopolized by state-run enterprises represented by CNBG Tiantan Biological and Biological Products Institutes in Changchu, Chengdu, Wuhan, Shanghai and Lanzhou, and Institute of Medical Biology Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences. In 2011, the state-owned companies accounted for 86.4% market share (by lot release quantity), and even occupied more than 99% market share in OPV segment.

        Along with the gradual easing of access to vaccine market, the private firms enjoy the rising share in Extra EPI vaccine market. In 2011, in terms of lot release quantity, private enterprises made up as high as 52% market share and occupied 98.9% share in human Rabies Vaccine market. Meanwhile, the foreign companies maintain 15-20% market share (by lot release) by virtue of their technologies and product advantages. Stimulated by the robust demand for vaccines from Chinese market, five vaccine giants including GSK, Pfizer, Sanofi Pasteur, Merk and Novartis aggressively expand their business in China.

        In January 2011, Merk acquired 100% equities of Beijing Skywing Bio-Tech, a player in the vaccine upstream sector. In March 2011, Novartis’ acquisition on 85% stake of Zhejiang Tianyuan was approved. In June 2011, GSK projected ?24 million for 51% shares of GlaxoSmithKline-Neptunus. At the end of 2011, the joint venture between GSK and Walvax Biotechnology—GSK-Walvax Influenza Vaccine (Split Virion) Project was in the civil construction phase.

        Table of Contents 1. Overview of Vaccine Industry

        1.1 Definition & Classification

        1.2 Industry Chain

        2. China Human Vaccine Industry 2.1 Overview2.2 Operating Environment2.2.1 International Market2.2.2 Policy Environment 2.2.3 Biopharmaceutical Market 2.3 Status Quo2.4 Supply & Demand2.5 Competition Pattern2.6 Prospect & Dynamics2.7 Sales Channel

      • MikeMa August 14, 2012 at 16:22 #

        Or think critically.

      • Chris August 14, 2012 at 18:48 #

        Goldy quoting Ms. DeLong:

        – “Autism is primarily a communication disorder so it’s not unreasonable to lump it in with language disorders.

        Goldy are all deaf people autistic? Is Marlee Matlin autistic. She has a communication disorder, her speech is hard to understand and she talks with her hands. So is she autistic too?

  31. Science Mom August 15, 2012 at 04:08 #

    The healthy child given an excellent diet and not deficient in Vit D will not have any problems and will be immune for life – will not suddenly get these diseases in adolescence or later in life when they are more dangerous.

    You bitch; tell that to the parents of these children: http://justthevax.blogspot.com/search/label/SSPE

    Yea, they’re immune for life; they’re dead.

    • Sullivan August 15, 2012 at 04:54 #

      Right. Measles protects against asthma.

      ABSTRACT

      CONTEXT: Many recent cross-sectional studies have suggested that lackof early exposure to communicable diseases, including measles, in affluent countries may have increased rates of atopic disease. OBJECTIVE: To study the association between natural measles infection and atopy. DESIGN AND SETTING: Cross-sectional nationwide study inFinland using data gathered between November 1, 1982, and June 30, 1986. SUBJECTS: A total of 547910 individuals aged14 months to 19 years who at the time of measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccination had relevant information collected on the occurrence of measles and allergic rhinitis, eczema, and asthma. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Lifetime occurrence of atopic manifestations insubjects who hadhad measles compared with those who had not, expressed as age-specific and age-adjusted prevalence ratios. RESULTS: The age-adjustedprevalence ratio of atopic manifestations among those who had had measles (n =20 690) compared with those whohad not (n = 527 220)was 1.32 (95% confidence interval [CI], 1.27-1.36) for eczema, 1.41 (95% CI, 1.33-1.49) for rhinitis, and 1.67 (95% CI, 1.54-1.79) for asthma. The positive association between measles and atopywas evident at all ages, in both urban andrural dwellers, and among subjects with many or few contacts at home or in daycare. CONCLUSIONS: Based on our data, measles and atopy occur more frequentlytogether than expected, which does not support the hypothesis that experiencing natural measles infection offers protection against atopic disease.

      Source: PubMed

    • Goldy August 15, 2012 at 05:39 #

      Dearest Big Pharma Mom – I won’t drop to your level and call you filthy names. A healthy child is not going to drop dead from childhood illnesses unless they are given the usual crap diet, lack of sunshine or they are immune compromised – probably from a previous vaccine. However as was the case recently with the mumps vaccine and whooping cough vaccine that most of the kids had been immunised anyway what is your argument. What is happening now is that kids are still getting these diseases but are full of immune compromising filth from the vaccine as well.

      • Chris August 15, 2012 at 05:50 #

        Citation needed, for everything.

        Please tell us how Roald Dahl deprived his oldest daughter of food and sunshine. I would be very curious what evidence you have that her reaction to measles was her parents’ fault.

        And which mumps vaccine? Please provide details.

        And do explain to us how the BMJ is a “free medical journal.”

      • Goldy August 15, 2012 at 06:45 #

        http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/08/mumps.outbreak.northeast/ind
        I nor anyone else is privy to the health conditions of Roald Dahl’s daughter and it is my belief that the insidious ongoing health effects and deaths from vaccines are equal to any greatly publicised death from a childhood illness. However I agree that if you give your kids junk food and expose them to multiple environmental assaults go ahead and vaccinate. However – it should not be forced on those of us who would like to rear healthy children the way nature intended. We don’t suffer vaccine deficiency disease.

      • Goldy August 15, 2012 at 07:10 #

        http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/08/mumps.outbreak.northeast/ind

        I nor anyone else is privy to the health conditions of Roald Dahl’s daughter and it is my belief that the insidious ongoing health effects and deaths from vaccines are equal to any greatly publicised death from a childhood illness. However I agree that if you give your kids junk food and expose them to multiple environmental assaults go ahead and vaccinate. However – it should not be forced on those of us who would like to rear healthy children the way nature intended. We don’t suffer vaccine deficiency disease.

        news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/718281.stm18 Apr 2000 – A measles infection when very young may slightly decrease the chance of getting asthma later, say scientists.

      • Science Mom August 15, 2012 at 12:20 #

        A healthy child is not going to drop dead from childhood illnesses unless they are given the usual crap diet, lack of sunshine or they are immune compromised – probably from a previous vaccine.

        You vile hag. These children were perfectly healthy. It is positively frightening that people like you are making decisions about children’s health. You are so arrogantly ignorant.

      • Goldy August 15, 2012 at 13:16 #

        Pharma Mom go tell that to the 114 girls who died after receiving HPV vaccine – OH….but VAERS report doesn’t count does it. Vile Hag me??? I can tell I wouldn’t want to meet you in a dark alley.

      • Sullivan August 15, 2012 at 15:14 #

        “I can tell I wouldn’t want to meet you in a dark alley”

        Are you threatening people now? Angry enough that you are considering violence?

      • Goldy Hates Children August 15, 2012 at 12:57 #

        ” A healthy child is not going to drop dead from childhood illnesses unless they are given the usual crap diet, lack of sunshine or they are immune compromised – probably from a previous vaccine. ”

        Goldy – it’s lovely how you decide that some children don’t deserve to live. Why did 90% of American Indians die from smallpox – were they “over-vaccinated” or spending too much time inside?

      • Lawrence August 15, 2012 at 14:07 #

        There goes Goldy again, blaming the parents & victims – obviously, it is there fault for dying of perfectly “benign” childhood diseases, right?

        You are a witch Goldy, you really are.

      • mikemawords August 15, 2012 at 14:25 #

        @Goldy,
        Your rose colored glasses have blinded you to the pain and suffering caused by vaccine preventable disease worldwide. Increasingly, we see outbreaks in the US and other 1st world countries due to the efforts of anti-vax fools who withhold safe, effective vaccines from your own children and from your community.

        Many children die suffer horribly from vaccine preventable disease. Many are otherwise healthy. (Whooping cough anyone?) You choose to ignore this either to boost your own lost position or out of sheer ignorance. Or both.

        You also condemn children who cannot be vaccinated for whatever reason, to extreme risk with your un-vaccinated disease vectors – children to you. Your selfish, ignorant stance may serve you well at AoA or other wretched hives but you are a disgrace to civilized peoples everywhere and the world of science education where you obviously failed (regardless of grade).

        You live as a fool and will likely die a fool. That matters little. It is the damage in your wake that appalls.

      • Chris August 15, 2012 at 16:39 #

        Goldy, you CNN link to some mumps outbreak says “Page not found”

  32. Science Mom August 15, 2012 at 13:09 #

    Here are a couple more victims of vaccine preventable diseases you can blame on the victims you demented freak: http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2012/05/and-everything-stops-for-second.html

    http://danamccaffery.com/openletter.html

  33. Science Mom August 15, 2012 at 15:25 #

    Pharma Mom go tell that to the 114 girls who died after receiving HPV vaccine – OH….but VAERS report doesn’t count does it.

    No, they don’t count because anyone can enter anything. Use the follow up investigations and no deaths attributed to HPV vaccines or do you want to blame the vaccine for suicides, deep vein thrombii, car accidents and malignant tumours now?

    You’re train of thought is truly a wreck. Stick to a sewing circle or something like that; you’re a public health menace and pathetic excuse for a human being to boot.

    • humanati August 15, 2012 at 15:51 #

      quote Science Mom
      “For your information, most who post here are very intelligent, caring, accepting parents of special needs children who just don’t find your spittle-flecked rants to be very original or convincing.”

      Yeah, we’re all feeling the love…

      “Vile hag”

      Citation please?

      quote Sullivan
      “Are you threatening people now? Angry enough that you are considering violence?”

      FFS.

      Er, I think Goldy maybe drawing attention to the stream of abuse coming from pHARMa rent boys like you & pHARMaMom actually & to try to portray her comment as a threat is just another technique you learn in shill school isn’t it?

      It’s clear who is being aggressive & abusive here & it ain’t Goldy.

      They’re pulling all the stops out for you Goldy.

      Well done!

      • novalox August 15, 2012 at 16:01 #

        @humanati
        Still going on with the old pharma shill gambit and showing your utter ignorance?

  34. Science Mom August 15, 2012 at 15:35 #

    Sullivan, no worries, Goldy the victim-blamer and biology-ignorant is grasping what a vile human being is and would be afraid to confront me in a dark alley. Not going to happen and I don’t incite violence towards even nitwits like Goldy.

    • humanati August 15, 2012 at 15:55 #

      No, but abuse is fine though isn’t it SM?

      Moral high ground fail…

      • novalox August 15, 2012 at 15:58 #

        @humanati

        Still trying your pathetic attempts at insults?

        Do try again.

      • Humanti is a hypocrite August 15, 2012 at 16:44 #

        Says the guy whose first post here was the filthy accusation that the parents of autistic children who run this site are Big Pharma shills (an obvious cover for the fact that he’s shilling for dangerous “chelation” treatments – one wonders who is paying him)

      • humanati August 16, 2012 at 00:11 #

        Is he? Who’s humanti?

        Hey, Jack mispelt my name the same way as you did, what a coincidence, huh?

        What are the chances of that?

        Hey, I’m flattered I got a copycat handle so quickly. Thanks Jack!

        Next!

        🙂

      • novalox August 16, 2012 at 02:53 #

        @humanati

        Next as in what? Another pathetic attempt at insult or conspiracy theory?

  35. Science Mom August 15, 2012 at 15:59 #

    Anyone who would blame victims for their deaths caused by vaccine-preventable diseases, particularly because their deaths don’t correspond to their cognitive dissonance is fair game. And so are you for abusing a special needs child.

    • humanati August 15, 2012 at 17:02 #

      Is that right?

      So parents that choose to not have their children vaccinated for whatever reason are guilty of abuse & deserve to be abused by caring, intelligent & rational people like you?

      & parents like me that did allow their children to be vaccinated & are recovering them with biomedical treatment are also guilty of child abuse & deserve abuse also?

      Citation please?

      You give me a nice warm feeling inside SM! 🙂

      That’s an interesting point of view & one that is currently doing the rounds with the astroturfers as they fight to counteract the exponential growth in awareness & evidence that vaccines maim & kill.

      Trying to link parental choice not to vaccinate with child abuse is clearly absurd but seems to be more about shutting parents down or provoking an emotional response that can then be labelled as ‘irrational’.

      …& these same people attempt to portray themselves as rational, the self appointed arbiters of ‘good’ & ‘bad’ science, who care about children so much that they feel it necessary & justified to abuse & bully parents of other children.

      Because any other choice apart from vaccination is child abuse?

      Hey ScienceMom, I’d just like to apologise for ever thinking you were a Pharma Sock Puppet Whore OK?

      Clearly, I was wrong.

      🙂

      • novalox August 15, 2012 at 17:07 #

        And again, humanati goes with the ad hominems, insinuations, and whatever, he/she/it imagines in his/her/its fevered imagination.

        At least we get to see his/her/its mindset, and boy, it isn’t pretty.

        Do try again with your insults, its nice for you to display to the world your utter lack of scientific thought.

      • Science Mom August 15, 2012 at 17:32 #

        & parents like me that did allow their children to be vaccinated & are recovering them with biomedical treatment are also guilty of child abuse & deserve abuse also?

        Chelating a child without a proper toxicologist examination and recommendation for such is abuse and yes, I will call you out on that. You delude yourselves into thinking that “parental choice” means gruesome experimentation on your children and calling it pretty names like biomed. You people are twisted.

      • Jack August 15, 2012 at 22:16 #

        I do feel that ‘biomedical’ as a term has been opened up to abuse. It seems that these days anything medical-sounding or proffering treatment gets this nomen. Rather a boon for snake-oil salesmen, it must bring the punters rushing in. Makes those recommendations sound all sciencey and kosher. ‘Roll up! Roll up! It’s biomedical don’t you know? Oh yes. Guaranteed to do no harm!’ Sad bastards.

  36. humanati August 15, 2012 at 17:10 #

    @novalox

    novalox, please, someone needs to tell you that you’re not Dr Evil OK!

    Do you have a fluffy white pussycat?

    At least I didn’t make you yawn or laugh today.

    I’m not insulting anyone. I’m just pointing out what’s going on here in a truthful way.

    It’s ScienceMom that’s insulting people, but it’s OK because ScienceMom, being the seat of morality that she is, has proclaimed that it’s OK to do this with people she disagrees with…

    Muhahahahahaaaaaaa!

    • novalox August 15, 2012 at 17:49 #

      @humanati

      Yawn, do try again. I doubt you are making any headway with your pathetic attempts at insult.

      And do know that since you have not brought anything to the conversation except conspiracy-laden theories, ad hominems, and insults, you deserve the scorn and laughter pointed your way from your posted ignorance.

      But do try again, I want to see how much more attempts at insult and pharma shill gambits you can try to throw out.

      • Lawrence August 15, 2012 at 20:40 #

        @novalox – parent’s who believe their child was possessed by spirits, then killed that child during a supposed “exorcism” are in the same league as parents who “believe” their child is full of heavy metals & subjects them to chelation with industrial agents…..kids have died undergoing that unnecessary procedure – and I’m still trying to figure out how the minute traces of thimersol in any vaccine supposedly grew into prodigious amounts inside a child’s body? How is it supposed to reproduce?

        It just doesn’t make any sense.

    • Sullivan August 15, 2012 at 21:39 #

      “I’m not insulting anyone. I’m just pointing out what’s going on here in a truthful way.”

      Interesting interpretation. One which I do not share.

      Calling people “pharma whore” is, in my book, insulting. Even if one puts the way you did:

      Hey ScienceMom, I’d just like to apologise for ever thinking you were a Pharma Sock Puppet Whore OK?

      Clearly, I was wrong.

      Calling people “pharma shills” and the like is an attempt at insult. “Truthful”, I think not. “not insulting”, well, I don’t think anyone took you seriously, but the intent was surely there on your part.

      • Jack August 15, 2012 at 22:27 #

        ‘Odd’ isn’t it how the title of a thread gets lost in the fallout? Well, not really all that ‘odd’ I don’t suppose. Predictable really.

        What is hard to fathom is why those ‘others’ feel a pressing need to come and post such crap. I mean do they think their ravings are necessary to support their consciences? Or to defend the faith?

        I can’t think what would drive me to venture across to one of their holy-of-holies and post links to ‘studies’ that did not endorse my point. I would at least I think take the time to read them myself first.

        How do they respond to a parent in their community who adopts the prescribed remedies only to discover their child contracts measles or whopping cough, or perish the thought, actually dies of a vaccine preventable childhood illness?

        Would they blame the friend for not being strict enough with the child’s diet?

        It’s interesting to me (a relative novice of this ‘fad’) and I wonder if in this day and age there isn’t some discipline of psychology or perhaps a part of a psychologist’s training that addresses these issues?

        Would such a parent continue to refuse vaccination even if the child has the measles for example? Would they go against a doctors advice? At what point would a doctor refer them to childhood services?

        Quite a fascinating psychological subject matter. Sad. Very sad. But fascinating all the same.

  37. lilady August 18, 2012 at 02:49 #

    @ Goldy:

    “A friend of mine had to have a full battery of vaccines to work in the Health Department. One month later his thyroid collapsed and he developed auto-immune disease. Of course no one connected the vaccines because it was one month after. However it could have been, this sort of thing is not being picked up.”

    Really Goldy. I worked as a public health nurse/clinician and I’m certain your “friend” whose “thyroid collapsed”….was not a licensed health care professional. I’m also certain that “your friend’s” thyroid did not “collapse”.

    What did “your friend’s” doctor tell “your friend” about his thyroid condition?

    Why don’t you ask “your friend” who “worked” at the health department about the eradication of smallpox, the dramatic decrease in congenital rubella syndrome and congenital varicella syndrome? How about the elimination of the scourge of polio throughout most of the world?

    http://www.polioeradication.org/Dataandmonitoring/Poliothisweek.aspx

    Do you and “your friend” want to go a few rounds with me about the dramatic decrease of invasive bacterial meningitis caused by S. pneumonaie, meningococcal and H. influenzae bacteria, since the development of vaccines, to prevent these serious, oftentimes, deadly childhood diseases?

    • Goldy August 18, 2012 at 03:24 #

      Dear Lilady – yes I wouldn’t mind going a few round with you. Firstly I am concerned about : India: Paralysis cases soar after oral polio vaccine introduced

      Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/article/323371#ixzz23rIofj00

      Also public health graphs show that Polio was almost eliminated before the vaccine was introduced due to better hygiene, sewerage and reduction of DDT, lead and other toxins. Two Centuries of Data Showing that Lower Rates of Disease are Due to Improvements in Public Health Policy and NOT Vaccinations. via http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/

      Re my friend whose thyroid collapsed. His doctor told him that his body had suddenly developed an auto immune conditiion in which it started to attack his thyroid. He was perfectly healthy before he had the mandated vaccinations. I do feel that autoimmune disease is ignored as it doesn’t manifest straight away. Many foreign proteins, toxic metals enter the body directly through the blood stream and it cannot destroy or eliminate them – as it could if they entered through the stomach and the body starts to attack itself.

      • Chris August 18, 2012 at 03:58 #

        Goldy:

        Also public health graphs show that Polio was almost eliminated before the vaccine was introduced due to better hygiene, sewerage and reduction of DDT, lead and other toxins.

        That page does not show polio, and only reports mortality, not morbidity. Here are two tables of polio incidence. Please tell how they show a decrease before the vaccine was introduced in the mid-1950s:

        From http://www.census.gov/prod/99pubs/99statab/sec31.pdf
        Year…. Rate per 100000 of polio
        1912 . . . . 5.5
        1920 . . . . 2.2
        1925 . . . . 5.3
        1930 . . . . 7.5
        1935 . . . . 8.5
        1940 . . . . 7.4
        1945 . . . 10.3
        1950 . . . 22.1
        1955 . . . 17.6
        1960 . . . . 1.8
        1965 . . Less than .05
        1970 . . Less than .05
        1975 . . Less than .05
        1980 . . Less than .05

        From the CDC Pink Book Appendix G:
        Disease: Polio in the USA
        Year__Cases____Deaths
        1953__35,592___1,450
        1954__38,476___1,368
        1955__28,985____1043
        1956__15,140_____566
        1957___5,485_____221
        1958___5,787_____255
        1959___8,425_____454
        1960___3,190_____230
        1961___1,312______90
        1962_____910______60
        1963_____449______41
        1964_____122______17
        1965______72______16
        1966_____113_______9
        1967______41______16
        1968______53______24
        1969______20______13
        1970______33_______7

        In the future please do not use random news articles or websites, especially that horribly formatted “childhealthsafety” site.

      • Goldy August 18, 2012 at 09:54 #

        Fair enough Chris – yes the graph did not show the polio graph – my mistake. I do believe the other graphs however are meaningful. In actual fact, my main argument is not with the polio or even smallpox vaccine. My argument is that common childhood diseases are not dangerous in a child that is given wholistic nutrition. However these diseases are dangerous to kids who suck on soft drinks, eat sugar, junk and they will be dangerous even if they are vaccinated as the vaccines only have a short life and their immune system will just get weaker. The immune system is like an army it needs something to fight or it gets bored and starts attacking itself – that is why kids in India who live in dirty shanty towns have very little asthma. Why the hell would you want to vaccinate a tiny baby with an immature immune system with the Hep B vaccine for a sexually transmitted disease for Gosh sake. Have you ever smelled these vaccines, they stink and smell evil and the tiny babies get the same vaccines as someone 70 times their weight.

        I have spent my whole life studying herbs and nutrition. I did not allow my children to have soft drinks, sugar. or junk. They grew up on whole food, vegetables and fruit. They did not ever experience ear infection “itis” conditions. They were calm and happy children. Yes they got the full spectrum of childhood illnesses but they got over them easily and enjoyed the extra attention and not having to go to school. One very important point I have learned is that fermented foods which contain an abundance of good bacteria are very protective against common infections. In fact it is now known that the gut is the second immune system. Children these days are unfortunately very depleted in good gut bacteria due to repeated antibiotics and this does compromise their ability to ward off infections. I always made sauerkraut which is full of good bacteria – it was part of our diet. The average gut holds about 2kg of bacteria and the modern junk diet promotes the bad gut bacteria. http://www.amandashealthjournal.com/assimilate-minerals-good-gut-flora/. Also the polio vaccine did contain SV40 virus which is now found in many brain tumours is considered carcinogenic http://www.ccid.org/addviruses/sv40.htmm this was covered up for a long time. Many of the cases of polio particularly in the third world are the result of the polio vaccine infecting people around those vaccinated.http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/09/opinion/la-oe-orent-polio-20110209.

      • Goldy August 18, 2012 at 10:40 #

        What Is Coming Through That Needle?
        The Problem of Pathogenic Vaccine Contamination
        If you as an individual are too busy to read this brief summary in one sitting, please be aware there is ample evidence in the scientific literature that serious viruses, bacteria; or components and toxins therefrom; as well as foreign animal or cancer-related proteins and DNA are finding their way into the commercial vaccines intended for humans, pets, and agricultural animals. If you are interested in the short and long-term health of yourself and those you care about, or serve as a public
        servant or medic al advisor, you do owe it to yourself to be informed.
        http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/vaccine_contamination_mcrearden.pdf
        Oh yes and it is only going to get a LOT worse when China starts making nearly all our vaccines which isn’t too far into the future. be scared…be very scared because already viruses in vaccines are combining to create super virulent strains in chickens. If you think the government is going to look after you..well think how well they have looked after you by allowing antibiotics to be given to animals – not to stop illness….but to increase their weight. Now those antibiotics are not working in the human population because of ..GREED….leaving us increasingly without protection in the future. Yep folks the future is rather scary I’m afraid. In fact I have observed at work the people who got the flu vaccine seem to be constantly sick with prolonged colds they cannot get rid of – nature isn’t stupid mankind is – you think you can outsmart nature by jabbing yourself instead of living a healthy lifestyle, drinking pure water, exercising and eating well…think again.

      • Chris August 18, 2012 at 17:50 #

        Goldy:

        I do believe the other graphs however are meaningful. In actual fact, my main argument is not with the polio or even smallpox vaccine. My argument is that common childhood diseases are not dangerous in a child that is given wholistic nutrition.

        Actually, no they are not useful. The graphs are on mortality, not incidence. You cannot say the diseases went down and not include the actual numbers of people who get the diseases.

        Plus they include Scarlet Fever, which has not gone away, because kids still get strep infections. The difference is that they are treated with antibiotics.

        And no, being well fed will not protect you from those vaccine preventable diseases. It certainly did not protect Christine Maggiore’s daughter.

      • goldy August 19, 2012 at 03:14 #

        My post which I wrote about 12 hours ago does not seem to be still stuck in moderation…any reason for that?

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 19, 2012 at 04:05 #

        Must be in spam, which I don’t have access to with the mobile app.

      • goldy August 19, 2012 at 04:08 #

        So there is censorship on this site? Probably favoring your argument.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 19, 2012 at 04:16 #

        There will be stronger moderation if you attack the moderator like that. Pretty much on any site.

        If you placed a comment and if it is in the system anywhere, wordpress has put it in the spam queue most likely. The mobile app doesn’t give access to that and digging through the spam queue is a pain. Very simple.

        Let’s see. It’a Saturday night. Do I want to spend 10 minutes of frustration to dig out the comment of someone who just attacked me?

      • goldy August 19, 2012 at 04:37 #

        No Sullivan it was not a personal attack on you at all. I was simply querying whether the site is moderating in favor of pro vaccination as my post was not delivered. this is a fair question. I don’t know who does the moderating – I am just asking for fairness.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 19, 2012 at 04:19 #

        Goldy,

        Let me be blunt. Your arguments are so bad, your sources so poor and your attacks on various members of this discussion so transparent that allowing your comments through are only hurting your cause. If I cut this discussion off it will be out of fatigue at how tiresome you’ve become.

      • Goldy August 20, 2012 at 00:26 #

        Dear Sullivan – this is after all a discussion. yes some people may find me tiresome – some may not. I was ready to leave this debate after getting abused from many people but Lillady invited me back in. I think there are still issues to be debated and I have some unanswered questions. I think it is sad you are telling me I am no longer welcome

      • Chris August 20, 2012 at 06:39 #

        Then, Goldy, why have you not answered the question I asked at August 18, 2012 at 03:58 about the incidence of polio and the vaccine:

        Please tell how they show a decrease before the vaccine was introduced in the mid-1950s

      • Goldy August 20, 2012 at 10:57 #

        “Serious side effects of mumps are more common among adults than children. Swelling of “the testes is the most common side effect in males past the age of puberty, occurring in up to 37 percent of post-pubertal males who contract mumps. An increase in miscarriages has been found among women who develop mumps during the first
        trimester of pregnancy.”
        This is one of the worst things about not allowing young children to get the mumps and have lifetime immunity. The vaccine has a short life and it leaves males after puberty in serious danger. It is Russian Roulette as to when the vaccine will wear off. The adult population will never submit to constant vaccinations so therefore the illness will always be a risk to the most vulnerable.

    • Goldy August 18, 2012 at 03:52 #

      Dear Lilady – yes I wouldn’t mind going a few round with you. Firstly I am concerned about : India: Paralysis cases soar after oral polio vaccine introduced

      Read more: http://digitaljournal.com/article/323371#ixzz23rIofj00

      Also public health graphs show that Polio was almost eliminated before the vaccine was introduced due to better hygiene, sewerage and reduction of DDT, lead and other toxins. Two Centuries of Data Showing that Lower Rates of Disease are Due to Improvements in Public Health Policy and NOT Vaccinations. via http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/

      Re my friend whose thyroid collapsed. His doctor told him that his body had suddenly developed an auto immune conditiion in which it started to attack his thyroid. He was perfectly healthy before he had the mandated vaccinations. I do feel that autoimmune disease is ignored as it doesn’t manifest straight away. Many foreign proteins, toxic metals enter the body directly through the blood stream and it cannot destroy or eliminate them – as it could if they entered through the stomach and the body starts to attack itself.

      Also Mumps Outbreaks in Vaccinated Populations: Are Available Mumps Vaccines Effective Enough to Prevent Outbreaks? http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/47/11/1458.full It seems that the present schedule is not effective and children and adults are going to be threatened with an ever increasing battery of vaccines. For those immune compromised or sensitive to eggs, allergic to chemicals this is going to be more and more dangerous. Obviously the best solution is lifetime immunity from getting the illness in childhood and being immune for life. As I did and all my community did back in the 50’s (without any deaths). The herd immunity hypothesis is severely undermined by this article.The article concludes:

      “The cause of mumps outbreaks among vaccinated populations remains unclear, but several potential contributing factors may be involved, as documented in this review. That outbreaks have recently occurred in populations with >95% 2-dose vaccine coverage strongly suggests that long-term prevention of mumps outbreaks with use of current vaccines and vaccination schedules may not be feasible. Mathematical modeling including populations highly vaccinated with 2 doses would be important in assessing different vaccination schedules. Additional research is needed to develop more immunogenic and effective mumps vaccines and/or to review current vaccination policies.

  38. Science Mom August 18, 2012 at 15:32 #

    Obviously the best solution is lifetime immunity from getting the illness in childhood and being immune for life. As I did and all my community did back in the 50′s (without any deaths).

    Still on that you insensitive cow? You wouldn’t even know about the children born with congenital rubella syndrome, who developed encephalitis or deafness from mumps and deaths/encephalitis from measles given your over-inflated sense of entitlement and cluelessness evident in your prattling.

    That outbreaks have recently occurred in populations with >95% 2-dose vaccine coverage strongly suggests that long-term prevention of mumps outbreaks with use of current vaccines and vaccination schedules may not be feasible.

    Not that you would be able to comprehend but the scenario here is similar to that observed during pertussis outbreaks. The attack rate for mumps in un/der vaccinated is still far higher than in vaccinated. High vaccine coverage doesn’t account for geographic clustering of unvaccinated.

  39. lilady August 18, 2012 at 15:41 #

    @ Goldy: Could you ask “your friend” to come here to explain his “thyroid collapse”…which you, not his doctor, attribute to receiving vaccines?

    Chris has already replied to your use of random internet articles and your use of notorious anti-vaccine websites as your “sources”.

    ” It seems that the present schedule is not effective and children and adults are going to be threatened with an ever increasing battery of vaccines. For those immune compromised or sensitive to eggs, allergic to chemicals this is going to be more and more dangerous.”

    Is a “sensitivity” to eggs a contraindication for getting the MMR vaccine…or any vaccine, Goldy? How does a doctor or nurse determine that there is any medical contraindication for the MMR vaccine…or any other vaccine, Goldy? (You might want to ask “your friend” who worked at the health department).

    From your own reference Goldy:

    “Mumps is an acute communicable disease characterized by fever, headache, and lethargy, followed by painful swelling of the salivary glands, typically the parotid. In the prevaccine era, mumps was a leading cause of viral meningitis and the most common cause of unilateral acquired sensorineural deafness in children [1]. Use of mumps vaccine in routine pediatric immunization schedules has significantly reduced the incidence of mumps, although outbreaks can occur even among highly vaccinated populations. In the United States, the incidence of mumps decreased from >100 cases per 100,000 population in most years in the prevaccine era (before 1967) to 10 cases per 100,000 population in 1977 [2, 3]. After the 1989 institution of a 2-dose measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine schedule, the number of reported mumps cases further decreased to 1 case per 100,000 population in 1992 and to 0.1 case per 100,000 population in 2001 [4] (figure 1).”

    Goldy, you seem to think that having actually had the actual childhood diseases fifty or more years ago, gives you “special insight” or makes you an “expert” in immunology, vaccines and epidemiology, ” Obviously the best solution is lifetime immunity from getting the illness in childhood and being immune for life. As I did and all my community did back in the 50′s (without any deaths).”

    Yes Goldy, you survived mumps in early childhood without any lasting sequelae. Unfortunately, others are not so lucky…

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm#mumps

    “Before the mumps vaccine was introduced, mumps was a major cause of deafness in
    children, occurring in approximately 1 in 20,000 reported cases. Mumps is usually a mild viral disease. However, serious complications, such as inflammation of the brain (encephalitis) can occur rarely. Prior to mumps vaccine, mumps encephalitis was the leading cause of viral encephalitis in the United States, but is now rarely seen.

    Serious side effects of mumps are more common among adults than children. Swelling of the testes is the most common side effect in males past the age of puberty, occurring in up to 37 percent of post-pubertal males who contract mumps. An increase in miscarriages has been found among women who develop mumps during the first
    trimester of pregnancy.”

  40. dedicated lurker August 19, 2012 at 19:41 #

    The immune system is like an army it needs something to fight or it gets bored and starts attacking itself – that is why kids in India who live in dirty shanty towns have very little asthma. Why the hell would you want to vaccinate a tiny baby with an immature immune system with the Hep B vaccine for a sexually transmitted disease for Gosh sake.

    So the immune system needs something to fight… so vaccines are bad.

    I’m missing something here.

  41. dedicated lurker August 19, 2012 at 21:45 #

    The immune system is like an army it needs something to fight or it gets bored and starts attacking itself – that is why kids in India who live in dirty shanty towns have very little asthma. Why the hell would you want to vaccinate a tiny baby with an immature immune system with the Hep B vaccine for a sexually transmitted disease for Gosh sake.

    So the immune system needs something to fight… so vaccines are bad.

    I’m missing something here.

    • lilady August 20, 2012 at 06:58 #

      You sure are missing a lot of “somethings” here Goldy.

      You statements about kids who live in substandard housing in India having less asthma is some sort of factoid that you read on another one of your crappy internet *research* sites. Try this site for a study about the increasing rates of asthma for children residing in Bangalore:

      http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-05-01/bangalore/31526131_1_asthma-h-paramesh-paediatric-pulmonologist

      ” BANGALORE: Changing demographics, ever-increasing air pollution, air-conditioned houses and offices and different dietary habits have increased the prevalence of asthma – one of the most dangerous respiratory disorders – in Bangalore. A study by the Institute of Medical Education and Research across four Indian cities -Delhi , Chandigarh, Kanpur and Bangalore- reported asthma prevalence in adults at 3.47% in 2011. About 10% adults in Bangalore are said to be suffering from asthma, according to pulmonologists.

      A study conducted by Lakeside Medical Center and Hospital and its team of pulmonologists between 1979 and 2009 concluded there is a three-fold rise in asthma cases among children. Said Dr H Paramesh, director, Lakeside Medical Center and a paediatric pulmonologist: “About 9% children were found to be suffering from asthma in 1979. In 2009, we found 25.5% children suffering from it.” In adults, the present prevalence is about 10%, he added.”

      Why don’t you try to name the specific childhood vaccine-preventable diseases where better sanitation systems would prevent the fecal-oral route of transmission of the specific diseases?

      Goldy, about the hepatitis B vaccine…why would the CDC, the WHO and every governmental health authority recommend that vaccine if it prevents “a sexually transmitted disease”? Try looking up vertical transmission and horizontal transmission of the virus to infants and young children. Try looking up what the risks are to an infant or young child who contracts the disease, to remain as lifelong carriers of the virus.

      Why do you hate kids Goldy? Why would you not research reliable sources, before you post here with your inanities? Do you think it is fun to have a child who is a chronic hepatitis B carrier, who is at risk for fulminant liver disease, cirrhosis or hepatocellular cancer?

      http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/hepb.pdf

  42. Goldy August 20, 2012 at 00:30 #

    “So the immune system needs something to fight… so vaccines are bad.
    I’m missing something here. ” In my opinion yes. It is an established fact that the more hygienic the living conditions the higher the problem with the immune system. Children living on farms coming in contact with animals and their manures have less asthma for instance. Ordinary childhood disease do prime the immune system…nature is not an idiot.

    • dedicated lurker August 20, 2012 at 05:42 #

      Vaccines also prime the immune system.

      And before you go on and on about “directly into the bloodstream” tell me what vaccines are given intraveneously.

    • lilady August 20, 2012 at 07:01 #

      Goldy…”In my opinion” you know nothing, nada, zilch about the immune system.

      No Goldy “nature is not an idiot”; there is only one idiot here.

      • Goldy August 20, 2012 at 10:27 #

        LiLady – Keeping children from experiencing childhood illness and wrapping them in a toxic vaccine blanket is a disaster for the developing immune system: You seem to have blinkers on when it comes to the increasing incidence of cancer, asthma, auto-immune disease, allergies, autism.http://richarddawkins.net/articles/645405-let-them-eat-dirt. Yes vaccines challenge the immune system but in a totally unnatural way by being injected directly into the blood stream.

    • Lawrence August 20, 2012 at 10:29 #

      No Goldy, nature isn’t an idiot – it has done very well over the course of history providing plagues, disease & disaster to cull down populations. Nature isn’t pretty, it isn’t nice, and it doesn’t want to be your friend – there was a time when we had to “breed like rabbits” to keep ahead of infant mortality – why do you think people had 10 kids or more? It wasn’t because they wanted to, it was because they had to – to make sure enough grew up & not die from all of the various diseases they were routinely exposed to.

      Sure, we’ve gotten a lot better over the years (hooray medical science) in keeping people alive, but it wasn’t until the advent of vaccines that we could actually prevent people from catching these virulent diseases – and eliminate the large-scale side-effects (known and recorded real side-effects of these diseases – like Sterility, Childhood Blindness & Deafness, and Congenital Birth Defects from rubella).

      Yeah, I could choose nature – but nature doesn’t like me very much, and I’m sure that if I tried to pet a mountain lion, it would probably eat me or step on a rusty nail & Tetanus would kill me.

      • Goldy August 20, 2012 at 10:39 #

        True Lawrence – nature can be your worst enemy or your best friend. One thing for sure you can’t outsmart it – you can try but eventually the viruses, bacteria etc just outsmart you. Just take a look at what has happened with antibiotics. It really is only when people started to adopt hygiene, sewerage, eat fresh food – learn about washing hands etc that things really started to get better for humanity. The happiest and healthiest people are those that tune into the natural cycles and healing aspects of nature. There is an incredible pharmacy in herbs of which Big Pharma has isolated bits and pieces of. However anything that cannot be patented is discarded – so there are wonderful herbs which Big Pharma won’t touch because it cannot obtain a patent on a whole natural product.

  43. Goldy August 20, 2012 at 07:00 #

    Dear Lurker – Yes vaccines are intramuscular not IV you are correct.

    Upon being vaccinated the body has protein fragments of disease organisms floating around in the body. The protein fragments are attenuated or weakened so they will stimulate a mild immune response. However, the body is not always stimulated sufficiently to mount an adequately robust response to create antibodies while also destroying the foreign protein fragments. The foreign protein fragments then get absorbed into body cells. T-Cells, sensing they are there, but unable to reach them directly, attack the body cells that harbor them. This can lead to auto-immune disorders, like multiple sclerosis, arthritis and cancer, which are essentially degenerative disorders caused by the body trying to destroy cells that contain the foreign protein fragments. Getting vaccinated can subject one to low-grade fevers that can persist throughout life due to the immune system trying unsuccessfully over a long period of time to rid the body of foreign protein fragments left behind from childhood vaccinations. Ultimately, the immune system is weakened or destroyed by this prolonged battle and degenerative disorders whose etiologies have baffled medical science can be the result.

    2) Another hazard of vaccinations is the fact that foreign proteins from the culture medium, though they are supposed to be filtered out during vaccine manufacture, can remain in the vaccines. By injecting them the body is then exposed to other foreign protein fragments that can also lodge themselves in body tissues. The immune system is thereupon triggered in an attempt to eliminate them. A low-grade and chronic fever of unknown origin then occurs to assist their removal. However, again, this low-level response often proves equally ineffective at resolving the problem initiated by the injection of foreign proteins into the bloodstream. The protracted auto-immune response can result in eventual debility and the appearance of many disorders that baffle modern medical research to resolve.

    • Lawrence August 20, 2012 at 13:25 #

      That’s a lot of big words there Goldy, but I don’t see any citations to prove a single thing that you have to say. And as far as “natural herbs” – yes, there are very good properties that have been isolated and refined, so that their effect is magnified and made more potent.

      Digging a root out of the ground and eating it might give you a passing exposure to whatever might have beneficial effects, but it is dwarfed by all of the other “stuff” that doesn’t do a damn thing.

      There is medicine & the stuff that doesn’t work (so-called “alternative” medicine). Once something is proven to work, guess what, it becomes medicine.

      Your claim of hygiene helping – why yes, it did, washing your hands or drinking clean water does nothing to prevent the spread of airborne diseases like Measles & Mumps, not to mention Rubella – so, how exactly would you like us to act against these diseases? Are you in favor of returning to the days of strict quarantine & holding people against their will inside their own homes?

      • Lawrence August 20, 2012 at 13:27 #

        Oh,and Goldy – what about the Native American diet wasn’t chock full of “fresh foods?” Didn’t seem to do a damn thing when they were exposed to Smallpox, Measles & Syphilis.

    • Science Mom August 20, 2012 at 14:54 #

      Oh good grief, you don’t even have a clue of what drek you are regurgitating here. Stop embarrassing yourself Goldy.

    • Julian Frost August 21, 2012 at 07:03 #

      @Goldy:

      the body is not always stimulated sufficiently to mount an adequately robust response to create antibodies while also destroying the foreign protein fragments. The foreign protein fragments then get absorbed into body cells. T-Cells, sensing they are there, but unable to reach them directly, attack the body cells that harbor them. This can lead to auto-immune disorders, like multiple sclerosis, arthritis and cancer, which are essentially degenerative disorders caused by the body trying to destroy cells that contain the foreign protein fragments

      What A Bunch Of Bull****! If that were true, then every time we ate food, either animal or vegetable, our cells would take up DNA fragments and get attacked by the immune system!
      Goldy, you are sucking your “facts” out of your thumb.

  44. Goldy August 20, 2012 at 12:44 #

    Chris in answer to your question”Then, Goldy, why have you not answered the question I asked at August 18, 2012 at 03:58 about the incidence of polio and the vaccine: – I answered this
    August 18, 2012 at 09:54

    • Chris August 20, 2012 at 16:14 #

      That was a non-answer, and brought up a bunch of silly stuff. You cannot deny the vaccine worked.

      Oh, and the SV40 was found and removed from polio vaccines over fifty years ago.

    • mikemawords August 20, 2012 at 17:10 #

      Goldy succeeds in the face of massive evidence because its goal is not to convince but to create FUD, fear, uncertainty and doubt.

    • mikemawords August 20, 2012 at 20:16 #

      Whooping cough takes the life of a 2 month old in NC. Just barely too young to vaccinate. Those that young must rely on herd immunity – a community health function that Goldy is struggling mightily to destroy. Well done Goldy. Chalk up another death to your crankery.

      • lilady August 20, 2012 at 23:11 #

        @mikemawords:

        I think it is abundantly clear the “Goldy” really doesn’t care about infants or children.

        http://www.wbtv.com/story/19321926/health-officials-urge-immunization-at-reports-of-first-death-from-pertussis-
        in-nc?clienttype=printable

        “Goldy” is either incredibly naive or just hates babies and young children.

      • Jack August 21, 2012 at 00:51 #

        I dare say that because these people ‘think’ their own kids are fine or have flown the nest that they themselves ‘did alright’ and that experience reinforces their nonsense. Totally selfish attitude and living in denial and ignorance.

      • Goldy August 21, 2012 at 01:17 #

        Jack
        VAERS), jointly operated by the FDA and CDC, has received more than 59,000 reports of adverse reactions to pneumococcal and Hib vaccines during the past several years. More than half of these cases – 30,094 – required hospitalization, with 2,169 deaths. About 95 percent of these deaths were in children under three years of age.

        In the last five years, from 2006 through 2010, 17,595 people in the U.S. reported adverse reactions to pneumococcal and Hib vaccines; 464 of these people died after receiving their shots. It should also be noted that these numbers only represent “official” reports to VAERS. The former head of the FDA, David Kessler, has estimated that for every official report of an adverse drug reaction, about 100 other people are also hurt but fail to make a report.

      • Goldy August 21, 2012 at 02:31 #

        Jack – it is sad that any child should die – do you care that 100,000 people die each year from legally prescribed Big Pharma drugs…http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db81.htm do you think it is OK that these profit driven Goliaths kill more people per year than the Vietnam War – Vioxx alone killed 60,000 people. You trust these psychopaths to jab your kids – they are creating a lifetime industry from the time the poor little newborn gets a HepB jab for sexually transmitted disease and you could be a Mormon or an Orthodox Jew. The ill health starts from that jab and continues and escalates each time the innocents get up to 60 needle stick injections of MSG
        antifreeze
        formaldehyde
        aluminum
        glycerin
        lead
        cadmium
        sulfates
        yeast protiens
        antibiotics
        acetone (same as nail polish remover!)
        neomycin
        streptomycin
        mercury
        monkey kidney
        animal viruses
        aborted fetuses
        pig, horse, sheep blood
        rabbit brain
        cow heart and more!

      • Chris August 21, 2012 at 02:21 #

        Goldy, what must you read and understand before using the VAERS database at its official website, http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index ? Why does it say “I have read and understand the preceding statement.” right next to the button to enter the database?

      • Goldy August 21, 2012 at 02:39 #

        Chris – I understand you refer to:Note that the inclusion of events in VAERS data does not infer causality. However this data base is the ONLY tool available to parents and grandparents whose children have been injured. Mothers are not stupid and have better insight into their children than doctors. Now considering only 10% of events are reported then even if only 10% of this data is true it is horribly significant. Doctors do not reliably report adverse vaccination events – unfortunately they are conflicted as they receive money to vaccinate.

      • Chris August 21, 2012 at 04:00 #

        Goldy, answer the question. What must you read and understand before entering the official VAERS database?

        Mothers are not stupid and have better insight into their children than doctors.

        Perhaps, but that does not mean they are educated in the issues surrounding the validity of raw data in self-selected surveys.

        By the way it is not the only tool. There are several studies published that used the Vaccine Safety Datalink Project, and then there are several clear readable resources around, like the CDC Pink Book. Plus there is the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, its details are posted on all of the Vaccine Information Sheets.

        So, again, Goldy, answer the question. All you have to do is cut and paste if from the website I listed.

      • mikemawords August 21, 2012 at 12:59 #

        @Goldy,
        VAERS is unreliable. The data are unconfirmed. Anyone can submit a report. Why would you assume that 10% are valid? What reference did you use to determine that? Pulled from your butt? I science provided you a service which you assume is 90% unreliable, would you jump for joy? Not a chance.

        You deflect by referencing alleged pharma deaths without considering that group is sick in far greater numbers and far more seriously than the general population. Idiot.

        You advocate a course of action which has and will result in preventable pain and death by pushing a disproved hypothesis on the fearful and gullible.

      • goldy August 21, 2012 at 13:28 #

        Seems like the old foul mouthed “Science Mum on another incarnation…

      • mikemawords August 21, 2012 at 15:14 #

        @Goldy,
        Foul mouthed? because i called you an idiot? Because I accused you of making claims without evidence? Get over your sensitivity and learn science and math.

        You are acting idiotically and worse. You advocate death by your stupidity.

    • Chris August 21, 2012 at 16:23 #

      Goldy, I asked you a simple question: What must you read and understand before using the VAERS database?

      Please answer the question.

  45. Science Mom August 21, 2012 at 03:37 #

    Antifreeze, lead, cadmium, aborted foetuses, etc. Oh Goldy dear do show me the vaccines those are in. Oooo formaldehyde, how do you keep yourself from having any formaldehyde in your body Goldy. And the number of jabs? Is the kid going to an acupuncturist? You’re completely off the rails Goldy.

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 21, 2012 at 06:55 #

      I stopped following this a while back, but is it safe to say that we’ve covered all the usual false claims?

      Scary ingredients
      Misuse of VAERS
      Citations to poor sources
      Claims that people who support science are “government funded puppets”
      Science that a high school biology student would see as false?
      Scary misrepresentation of Dr. Offit’a estimate of ability to respond to antigens from 10000 vaccines?
      Refusal to accept multiple safety studies?
      Claims that safety studies are not done?

      Are we missing the claim that Andrew Wakefield’s research has been replicated in multiple continents?

      I’m sure I’ve forgotten some, but the point is-there’s little if any new ground here.

      • Elucidatus August 21, 2012 at 07:13 #

        Matt, please Stop acting like a child. All I asked is that you team up with us to find the real cause. Don’t say we *are* looking for the cause when all you are doing is *attempting* to prove you are searching for the causation. You win. Is that what you want to hear? Fine… you win. We are wrong. Now will you help us? That is the question now. Will you help us?

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 21, 2012 at 07:34 #

        Sorry that you can’t see that I’m already working on it. That is a bigger divide than your choice of language. Which was insulting.

        Pointing out politely that phrases such as those you use are not conducive to uniting people is not “acting like a child”. How exactly you assume you can both insult people and unite them at the same time is beyond me.

        The question is answered. Has been for some time.

      • Elucidatus August 21, 2012 at 08:08 #

        Don’t get angry because I am pointing out the obvious that you are acting like a child. You must be bitter by now from responding to every single post. Look Matt, I have been around for as long as you have within this back and forth debate and we both know it’s going nowhere. Now let’s pretend you are correct. What will you do with your findings? Are you going to share it with everyone, or are you going to mass produce this in some pharmaceutical lab? Please answer my questions at your convenience. I want to know what you know. I want us to be able to share your knowledge with the whole world so that we know what we can do to avoid Autism. Let’s have it!

      • Julian Frost August 21, 2012 at 08:09 #

        Elucidatus, how is Mr Carey acting like a child? Pointing out that Goldy, humanati and the other anti-vaxxers are making claims that have been debunked repeatedly is hardly childish behaviour. Calling us “government-funded puppets” (which you have done in a comment below) is acting like a child.
        As to what causes autism, I believe it’s genetics. My father behaves in ways that are on the spectrum, and my mother’s father was also “odd”.
        Vaccines have been looked at as a possible cause of autism.
        Thoroughly.
        They do not cause autism.

      • Elucidatus August 21, 2012 at 08:22 #

        Julian,

        Fine, I am acting like a child. Ok then. You said you believe it’s genetic? Is your belief better than anyone else’s? Where is your proof? Now, I am not stating that Autism is caused by anything, other than asking Matt to share his proof of evidence with us. It’s obvious that I and the rest of my peers are incorrect. So please, please with SUGAR ON TOP. Share with us your absolute proof what causes Autism and we will go with it and try it. I’m just asking for what the true causation is and nothing else.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 21, 2012 at 15:28 #

        ” Now, I am not stating that Autism is caused by anything, other than asking Matt to share his proof of evidence with us.”

        First one has to point out that, no, this isn’t what you were asking for. You were asking me to join you (whatever groups you think you represent).

        Now–please tell me, proof of evidence of *what*? What position are you claiming I have that I need to provide evidence for? Based on the above discussion, it appears this might be proof of evidence that autism is 100% genetic. A stance I do not take.

        Tell me what stance I am taking that you feel I need to provide proof for. And keep to your own standard: provide your proof that I take that stance.

        My guess is that you have a nice straw man built of me.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 21, 2012 at 18:58 #

        I forgot a few–

        Vaccines don’t work
        Herd immunity doesn’t work
        diseases were all going away anyway
        there are no vaccine safety studies
        there are vaccine safety studies, but none are independent
        independence only is important for studies that show vaccines are safe and effective

    • Science Mom August 21, 2012 at 15:05 #

      Actually Goldy, I’m quite young now answer the questions or are you only equipped to spew out nonsense and not actually think about it?

  46. Elucidatus August 21, 2012 at 06:01 #

    To my friends, please know this is exactly what they want us to do. They want us to waste our time by debating with a team of government funded puppets. It’s not like we are on a debate team for the win. There is no gold medal here. I too used to fight the good fight but found out that in order to win you must first win with getting your child better. Fight science with real science. Educate yourself and team up with real scientists that are willing to take on this FIGHT! Just remember that each child is different and each child will have different symptoms and issues. This debate/fight/struggle what ever you decide to call it will continue on for decades to come unless we have real sufficient evidence of harm. Saying that we know our children better than the pediatricians is not going to win this war. I’m tired, extremely tired but I have not given up hope.

    I ask that we ALL (Including those from LBRB) team up to find out what is truly causing this and have an open mind versus fighting like blind old men trying to prove if the sky is blue or red. Now who is with me? I have not been on here in a while but this will be my last entry on LBRB.

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 21, 2012 at 06:42 #

      Those of us at LBRB *are* working on finding causes.

      Two points to consider: you may get farther in such calls if you refrain from using phrases like “government funded puppets”. Second, do you really want “government funded puppets” working with you? Purely rhetorical question as I don’t know any “government funded puppets”.

    • Lawrence August 21, 2012 at 10:41 #

      Elucidatus – doesn’t seem to be “our” side that needs the open mind. I assume that you’re here from AoA – I would just take a look at their laundry list of “vaccine-related” stories & attempting to link anything (including a story on carni-cons) to their messaging that “vaccines cause everything wrong in the world, including autism.”

      You don’t seem to want to accept the fact that there are dozens, if not hundreds of current studies being down right now, attempting to find the root cause of autism. Follow that up with large numbers of organizations working on therapies and services to help those with autism – because we’ve seen how early intervention can lead to better overall outcomes.

      So, if you are prepared to get an organization like AoA to admit that the overwhelming evidence that autism is not caused by vaccination & truly start getting behind real research to find out what variety of factors causes autism – which will lead to a better understanding on what actions we can take to improve the lives of those born with it, then great.

      So, tell me what “you” are going to do about?

    • Chris August 21, 2012 at 16:28 #

      They want us to waste our time by debating with a team of government funded puppets.

      Who, and what is your evidence?

      Why call it a “debate” when all I wish to do is try to correct false statements, and make some people understand what kind of data is in VAERS. How is it a “debate” when I ask what you must read and understand before using it?

      • Jack August 21, 2012 at 17:49 #

        I don’t think a real debate is possible with these fundamentalists. It’s all very sad. What a lot of wasted resource. And funding. All that money being spent on…..???? Ego’s!!

      • Chris August 21, 2012 at 19:00 #

        Well, that is why I encourage those who claim we should continue to research vaccines and autism to design a study, conform to the Belmont Report, get it approved by an IRB, and write a grant to get it studied. Then submit the grant to SafeMinds, Generation Rescue, Autism Trust, and Autism Speaks for funding.

        Then go do the research, write it up and get it published in a high impact journal.

      • Jack August 22, 2012 at 14:25 #

        Yes, I agree Chris. And further (more generally), if it is believed that any particular vaccine is producing harm and that harm has not been acknowledged, be it in relation to autism or anything else; that instead of funding ‘anti-vaccine’ groups and spouting unproven nonsense – they actually do the same as you suggest. Single-out a vaccine and generate the research.

        I happened across the following interpretation of Slovac’s paper earlier this morning. I think it is reasonable to apply the thinking to all forms of ‘advocacy’. I do wonder what exactly the anti-vaccine movement have really achieved and what they really hope to moving forward:

        “The trouble with us as a species is that we’re not very good at complexity and nuance. If we think something’s bad, we think it’s all bad; if we think something’s good, we think it’s all good. It’s been demonstrated that if we think something has plenty of benefits, we tend to subconsciously downplay its risks; likewise, if we think it’s risky, we’ll tend to assume it’s got no benefits.

        The psychologist Paul Slovic has shown that, with controversial issues like nuclear power or vaccination, people who are against them think they have little or no benefit and lots and lots of risk. Those who are in favour think it’s got lots of benefits and no risks. What’s more, if someone spends some time convincing you of the benefits, you’ll automatically find yourself believing that it has fewer risks – even though you have no new evidence whatsoever regarding those risks – and vice versa.”

        http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100177588/we-need-the-right-to-a-dignified-death-but-we-need-to-acknowledge-the-risks-involved-as-well/

  47. Goldy August 22, 2012 at 10:07 #

    Chris – I for one would welcome a study that would shut up people like me…I am keen to find evidence that vaccines are not the cause of autism and then we can look for another environmental cause – we can narrow it down and focus. Elimination is the key. Bear in mind that the study would need to compare an equal number of unvaccinated and vaccinated. It must be double blind and it needs to be a sizeable study over a time period long enough to expose slowly developing illnesses that may or may not be be caused by vaccines – such as allergies and auto immune disease – there is no other way to satisfy those of us who deeply suspect vaccines are contributing to Autisim and auto immune problems – otherwise it is not science and we will never be satisfied.

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 22, 2012 at 15:17 #

      Do you accept that thimerosal and the MMR vaccine do not increase autism risk?

      You appear to be denying t hose repeated results. If so, your stance that you are just looking for science to be convinced isn’t very convincing itself.

    • Science Mom August 22, 2012 at 15:51 #

      Bear in mind that the study would need to compare an equal number of unvaccinated and vaccinated. It must be double blind and it needs to be a sizeable study over a time period long enough to expose slowly developing illnesses that may or may not be be caused by vaccines – such as allergies and auto immune disease – there is no other way to satisfy those of us who deeply suspect vaccines are contributing to Autisim and auto immune problems – otherwise it is not science and we will never be satisfied.

      This is why people like you should stop embarrassing yourselves on a daily basis. How would you get this study through an IRB? Do you realise that in order to conduct a double-blind study all participants would have to agree to either be vaccinated or receive a placebo? More questions that Goldy won’t answer given her blatant dishonesty and ignorance displayed throughout this thread. Furthermore, no one is interested in “satisying” the likes of you. Your minds are made up and it’s obvious you have shifted the goalposts so far they aren’t even on the field any more.

      • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 22, 2012 at 17:20 #

        “How would you get this study through an IRB”

        The simple answer, of course, is it couldn’t get through an IRB. The experiment as proposed is basically a Tuskegee-type experiment where life-saving medicine is withheld from study subjects. The difference, of course, is that the subjects are (I presume) made aware that they are a part of a study. There is a secondary effect that if a study subject is infected, he/she will run the risk of exposing people who are not consenting participants. In particular, those too young to be vaccinated, those with compromised immune systems, and those with other medical reasons to avoid vaccination–those who are most vulnerable to vaccine preventable diseases–would be at risk.

        An open question remains who are “we” in Goldy’s discussion? People who question vaccine safety? I don’t need her to inform me about that subject as I (and most commenters on this site) do question vaccine safety. Questioning vaccine safety is not the same thing as rejecting vaccine safety. One can question vaccine safety, look at both sides of the discussion and come to the conclusion that vaccines are safe and effective. This is the sort of false premise that often pops up in these discussions. It’s similar to the premise that people who believe vaccines are ineffective and dangerous position themselves as being “open minded” (even when often the evidence is that they have unshakable beliefs) because they are only “asking questions”, while painting those who have spent considerable time reading the research as “closed minded” because they have come to the conclusion supported by the science.

  48. Goldy August 22, 2012 at 10:13 #

    Matt – I am really looking for answers – could you please share with me safety studies that show that vaccines are safe. I am sincerely ready to look at them and study them.

    • Sullivan (Matt Carey) August 22, 2012 at 15:06 #

      If you were sincerely ready to read them, you would have by now. Its not like they are hidden.

      Tell me, how did you make an informed secession if you are unaware of vaccine safety studies? Why are you wasting everyone’a time here if you haven’t read those studies?

    • Chris August 22, 2012 at 15:41 #

      Go to PubMed.gov and search for Vaccine Safety Datalink. Then read the papers. How is that difficult, and why have you not done that already?

    • Chris August 22, 2012 at 15:51 #

      While you are at it, you can answer the question I asked on August 14, 2012 at 01:27… Do tell me which of those public health agencies are actually “Big Pharma” funded. You see, that was a paper I posted along with the list from “JusttheVax” that you never bothered to click on and read.

    • Science Mom August 22, 2012 at 17:48 #

      Matt – I am really looking for answers – could you please share with me safety studies that show that vaccines are safe. I am sincerely ready to look at them and study them.

      What a load of bollocks! We’re looking for answers too so why don’t you provide them. And don’t waste your time on the copious number of vaccine studies, really, it’s not as though you would even grasp their meaning anyhow.

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