Yesterday, my fellow countryman Mike Stanton left the following comment in response to a previous commenter about his belief regarding how his child had become autistic:
There may not be a single answer. But that does not mean we can pick any answer we like. There has to be some scientific validity to any hypothesis.
This is such a good comment. It reflects something I’ve felt increasingly over the last year or so – the increase in pseudo-scientific theories posed as a ‘menu’ for parents to choose from. It reminds me of sauntering up to the counter at McDonalds and saying – “I’ll have one of those, one of those and one of those.”
I recently came across a post made on the Onibasu list which illustrates my point. This is the signature of the poster in question. Its a list of treatments she’s trying on her child:
My son is using M-B12 (Hopewell) since Dec 2003, Wellness Essential GSH (had been using TD-Glut but levels were always low), TD-DMSA (3 on and 4 off – 8 hr schedule) (Lee Silsby) since Oct 2005, (Used TD-DMPS Jan 2005 ?Oct 2005) TD-ALA (Lee Silsby) since Oct 2005, TD-LDN (Wellness) Since Oct 2005, (High Tech Health) FIR sauna, Magnetico bed, High Tech Health’s water machine, and a lot of supplements.) GFGFSF diet.
The post in question is also asking about Lupron. Thats a total of 12 separate treatments, ‘a lot of’ supplements and she probably is in the process of adding Lupron to that list as we speak.
And can you Supersize me please?
What worries me is even a bog-standard bottle of Asprin has a warning on it about responsible use. Is it really sensible to risk giving one’s child such a massive cocktail of drugs on the word of someone who quite obviously is more interested in money than science?
Medicine shouldn’t be such a pick and mix affair. Its quite worrying about what this reveals about how the West’s perception of doctors has changed. Doctors who have undergone 7 years plus of training are viewed with suspicion and sued at the drop of an opinion whilst ‘doctors’ who have shops rather than practices are lauded as heroes.
How did it come to this? When did McScience start to replace science? How did it come to pass that the process of peer review (designed to give a good _starting point_ to a paper) meant nothing and the process of buying an entry in a pseudoscience rag or buying a misleading advertmeant everything?
I’m nobodies scientist. It takes me longer to understand the science because I need to go through it time after time so I understand all the words and understand the implications. I ask questions of actual scientists and get them to translate for me so it stands to reason to me that for an article to be peer reviewed in a decent journal assures that the standard of science in that article will be fairly high. It might not make the paper _right_ , but at least we can be sure its been thought through properly.
Surely that needs to be the absolute baseline of quality we should come to expect for papers that discuss such important questions. Otherwise we really do end up at the counter of McScience – like kids in a sweet shop, taking what we think we’ll like rather than what we need.
Left Brain Right Brain 
“So, Sue and JB Handley, does testosterone really form sheets?? Really? Ever? That’s true? And Lupron is the cure for these testosterone sheets?
I’m thinking that you need psychological help if you say, “yes.—
Dodging the science again, Sue? This question gets to the credibiltity and/or sanity of the Geiers, Pappa Doc and Baby BA.
I won’t consider anything that the Geiers say is true. If they say the sun rose this morning, I will check myself. They lie for cash. They fib under oath. Maybe they tell the truth sometimes, but that’s not good enough to give them credibility and believe their flaming conspiracy story.
Camille Clark said,
“I’m thinking that you need psychological help if you say, “yes.â€
If anyone here needs “psychological help”, it’s you Camille!
KC, you’re an idiot.
Always were, and always will be.
Ms Clark is studying the science, and you think *she* needs the psych-help….
Shows how fucked up your head is with all that mercury shit….
Thank you David for your kind words as always. Not going to down that road with you again! 🙂
KC: “Not going to down that road with you again! :)”
You think I care?
So Kevin Champagne you think I’m mentall ill?
OK.
So Kevin, what about them testosterone sheets? Think they are real? Think they can be dismantled with a chemical castrator? You are behind the Geiers on this little escapade all the way?
It’s ok if they harm kids with this potent chemical made by big pharma? You don’t think they’re just big pharma shills?
I do.
That is the third time you’ve asked about the testosterone sheets. I have a feeling that you’re waiting with some long dissertation about testosterone sheets. I’m not going to bite.
What about the big run around the Geiers got over the VSD database? No one seems to be mentioning that.
David Andrews defends AutismDiva but she had this to say about him recently,
David Andrews doesn’t have a blog. He has a really foul mouth. David knows that Autism Diva doesn’t like his use of foul language, but he’s not obligated in anyway to listen to her. If David Andrews had a blog, Autism Diva couldn’t recommend people to read it because of the level of blue language that would be there… if he wrote as he usually does.
could it be that she has a problem with profanity, but not his views on autism?
if you’re looking for soothing words that tiptoe around a fragile ego, I’d suggest not asking an autistic
by the way, Jenny, Johnny says that Nancy is prettier than you. Will you be my friend now and not like Johnny?
Kindergarten Kop?
Like I said earlier,
If anyone here needs “psychological helpâ€, it’s you Camille! AKA Kindergarten Kop.
Dr Geier had a chance at the VSD but screwed it up:
“In summary, during the first visit the researchers conducted unapproved analysis on their datasets and on the second visit attempted to carry out unapproved analyses but did not complete this attempt. This analysis, had it been completed, could have increased the risk of a confidentiality breach. Before leaving, the researchers renamed files
for removal which were not allowed to be removed. Had it gone undetected, this would have constituted a breach of the rules about confidentiality.”
Based on this last bit of data manipulating published in the sham peer review journal, the Dumpster Diving Duo is showing the depths they will go for personal gain.
Camille/AKA Nana, you got that from CaseWatch which is part of Quackbusters. Not a good source and I think the Geiers are much more credible. The truth about Quackbusters.
A swing and a miss. Actually, I’m not american. My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low grade narcolepsy. So you see, you’re way off base.
Your AOL-honed jousting skills have got you thinking that every screename that passes you by is wearing a skirt. Newsflash – they’re all overweight, middle-aged guys in those chatrooms, man.
For an overactive libido, you might try the new Buttar cream – it’s a combination thiol-Lupron elixir that is rubbed vigorously in the right places to knock down the testosterone levels. You might even get a free case of it if you sign up for the clinical trial. I hear the Geiers, having their butts handed to them by the Elm City School’s 7th grade statistics club, have some time so they might be able to give you a hand. Autism FAIR Media might even film the procedure, in fact, I’m sure that they’d be begging to do so. This is just between us, I promise not to tell Fore Sam or any other Rescue Angel.
Gotta Go,
Please help me understand how (from the blog entry you reference) “Quackwatch. com” is the quackbuster’s “bible.” On that site, and their dubious “web-ring” you’ll find a condemnation of anything, and everything, that competes with the use of drugs, drugs, and more drugs.” “everything, that competes with” includes the use of chelation drugs, similar to their sub-sites autism-watch.org and chelationwatch.org . Chelation doesn’t seem to be competition with drugs – it is drugs.
Let me post the rest for you,
Quackbusters.com, … Run out of a New York ad agency, the “quackbusters,” are one of Big Pharma’s tools, in the war between “health and medicine.” There is no question that “Big Pharma’s” control of health care is over. The pharmaceutical industry, itself, is on the rocks. Merck’s “Vioxx scandal” was the beginning of the end. The official North American health system, “Western Medicine,” is broken beyond repair, and it isn’t going to get fixed.
Drugs is drugs as drugs are drugs?
Are all drugs created equal?
Noun drug (plural drugs)
Definitions:
1. (medicine) Substance used to treat an illness, relieve a symptom or modify a chemical process in the body for a specific purpose.
2. (medicine) A substance, often addictive, which affects the central nervous system.
3. medicinal substance: a natural or artificial substance given to treat or prevent disease or to lessen pain.
4. illegal substance: an often illegal and sometimes addictive substance that causes changes in behavior and perception and is taken for the effects.
5. pharmacology medical substance: a substance given to treat or prevent illness as defined in the U.S. Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act.
Which drug is which?
GG (KC): “David Andrews defends AutismDiva but she had this to say about him recently,
‘David Andrews doesn’t have a blog. He has a really foul mouth. David knows that Autism Diva doesn’t like his use of foul language, but he’s not obligated in anyway to listen to her. If David Andrews had a blog, Autism Diva couldn’t recommend people to read it because of the level of blue language that would be there… if he wrote as he usually does.'”
Nice try.
Sometimes I swear and sometimes I don’t. Sometimes, I write about things, and sometimes I don’t. AD has her opinion about me, and that is fine. But using a ploy like *this* to create tension in the ranks here is plain stupid, and doesn’t even belong in the primary school playground. So what if AD said that?! Her prerogative. At least she isn’t saying “his brain doesn’t work properly because of all the mercury”, or “he needs treatment” or anything derogatory like that (which JBJr is so fond of doing… and even his responses to anything have gotten boring).
Joskus mun pitäis kirjoittaa suomeksi, niin sitten se ei olisi mitään jos minä kiroilaisin tai en. Kieliasiat kuitenkin olisi noin, totuus olisi se, että autismi *ei ole* Hg-myrkytystä ollenkaan. Meillä Suomessa ei ole tämmonen juttu, että lääkärit sanoisivat niin, että se edes saattaa olla sitä. Miksi tämä ilmiö tulee esiin sitten vain Yhdysvalloissa? Kirjoittakaa siitä, miksi. Jos uskallatte.
And, unless anyone hear speaks Finnish, you’re at a loss to know whether I did or did not swear in that bit.
KC on maailmanlaatuinen vittupää, joka pitäis jäädä puhuttomatta niistä asioista, josta hän ei tiedä mitään.
Notice how KC is selective in his pickings:
“Also, in his defense, David Andrews writing get’s thicker with the bad words when he’s got ugly stuff going on in his life, and he’s going through a “rough patch” right now, that might explain the unusually bad language he used on Kevin Leitch’s blog. Take it or leave it. Autism Diva really doesn’t like foul language, but she does understand that others don’t feel the same way about it.”
Autism Diva knows that. KC ignores it. KC is just out to troll and inflame people to respond in nasty ways. AD has it right there, though. KC needs to grow up some.
Um… just struck me:
*KC: “Not going to down that road with you again! :)â€
You think I care?*
I think he wants to go down that road, and has noticed I’m not letting him.
Interesting….
Should I react how he’d like me to…?
Or not.
He’d like me to swear so he can denounce me for extreme language, I think. And he’s not happy because I’m not swearing at him. So he misquotes a blog entry by someone with whom I have no issues in order to create some… so, maybe he is wanting to go down that road.
So if I don’t swear at him… he doesn’t get what he wants. 🙂
What shall I do people? Did I do a good analysis of KC’s behaviour here? What’s the effect going to be on him if he doesn’t get what he wants from me? It’s clear from elsewhere that JBJr is missing his chance to have a go at me (but isn’t getting one since I’m not bothering to respond to him).
Ideas, folks….? 🙂
Kevin,
You posted extremely foul stuff on the autism diva blog and I was supposed to just take that?
You then defended your obscenity directed at me by saying, “I’m no worse than your friend David…”
and I answered that David knows what I think about his blue language, but he doesn’t need to obey me. David knows that I like him as a person. I hope he knows that. . It’s just that I don’t link to sites or blogs that are typically full of blue language. Kevin’s blog has different rules than mine and the foul language is pretty rare. Half of it comes from “JB of god,” I think. Maybe not.
Both you and JB of god have used very disgusting language on me. JB when he was pretending to be Ashleigh Anderson also used foul language in an email to me. Everyone notice how when JB went silent so did Ashleigh Anderson? … maybe she’ll make an appearance again now.
Kevin C., don’t get all precious about using bad words when you use them yourself.
I am not Nana, never have been Nana, as she pointed out.
I also am not “Kindergarten Kop”, though Kindergarten Kop’s post was very funny, it wasn’t mine.
(PS Bobby says he never did like you and mom likes me best!)
Hi David,
I don’t dare try to put myself into KC’s shoes. I don’t think he knows what he wants…he seems quite confused.
I didn’t want a dissertation, I wanted to know if they believed in “testosterone sheets” and a Lupron injection cure for them.
If they think they can defend the testosterone sheets with science it wouldn’t require a dissertation, just a citation or two.
MsC: “David knows that I like him as a person. I hope he knows that.”
I do indeed. And I know what you mean about KC’s wants. You asked a simple question, and a simply yes/no question could be answered easily enough.
I think he likes to think he can create Neuro-Discord by pitting us against each other. I think it might upset him that it doesn’t work. And so he has to have a go at us all the more. I specialise in educational psychology and ways of helping in specific settings, and you specialise in an area which doesn’t bite me as much as it bites you, and so I go with your ideas on this testosterone thing… you disagree with that theory, and you can provide good evidence to support your disagreement. KC cannot provide evidence for believing in it… and that must upset him some…
What’s his problem?
Going to prep for my gig now. I have a gig at 8pm today and an interview for the local press at 5pm on my “day job”…. talk to you later.
Meantime, thanks for the statement I quote above. I appreciate that, and I can assure you that the feeling is definitely mutual 🙂
“Nana (Not the Diva but thanks for the compliment)”
– Apparently you didn’t read what I wrote, it wasn’t exactly a compliment.
– Sue M.
Kevin C/Gotta Go:
I note that your source for the Quackbusters refutation is Rense.com. Here are a few more stories from Rense using which we can judge their reliability and sanity:
Why The Holocaust Must Be Questioned.
The Nonexistent ‘Auschwitz Gas Chambers’?
Argentina Mystery – Strange Abduction Of Police Officer
2005 Mexico UFO Fleet Seen By Thousands
Quackbusters? You mean the domain of Tim “Hulda Clark’s PR flack” Bolen?
If you want to flush any credibility you had down the toilet, associate yourself with that tripe.
Kev wrote:
“Is your contribution to this blog now reduced to going ‘what if….’”?
– Unfortunately at times it is reduced to that, Kev. As you can see, no one here wants to comment on the Geiers video because “they are liars”, they are “conspiracy theorists”, etc. I believe that that is false, but unfortunately you say that and then can sit back and not answer the legit questions that their commentary poses… So, I have to resort to “what if” the Geiers are telling the truth… to get anyone to offer commentary on the subject. As you can see it was my “what if” question about the Geiers which finally allowed a few people to answer the legitimate question. For example, Clone wrote:
“Let me be the first to say this for the record. If some sort of conclusive evidence should appear in the next few days, months, years, whatever, I will publicly admit that I was wrong all along and apologize for ever doubting you”.
Then you wrote:
“I’m sure they’re not lying – they’re just incompetent”.
– Of course, this then begs the question. Why aren’t they letting in “more competent” researchers to prove the Geiers wrong? On a case of this magnitude they should be opening up the data (VSD) for the most competent of scientists to be let in… Instead what is happening, Kev? If you listened to the video you should know.
– Sue M.
Sue –
I think the “compliment” Nana referred to was your conflating her in your mind with Diva. If Nana thinks highly of Diva, that would be a compliment to her in her mind, even if what you said wasn’t itself complimentary.
And I have a question for you, since you’re the only one who’s seriously brought up Omega-3s, can you recommend a good source for someone whose skin won’t tolerate the consumption of fish oils or evening primrose oil, and whose digestive system can’t take a whole lot of flaxseed oil? If you can’t make a recommendation, that’s fine, I just figured I’d ask, just in case you could.
This message is for “Bart.” I tried to comment on his blog regarding his “critique” of the Geiers’ latest study paper…where he attacks their trend charts…
Bart made some erroneous assumptions that need to be cleared up.
Bart assumed that the data is all from one “equation” which it is not. The Geiers split the data into two trends, because the data represents two scenarios.
The uptrend represented autism cases when thimerosal was in vaccines at a fixed, high dose. It created a separate trend, worthy of a trend line.
But then, mercury was removed from the vaccines…which is a new event…a new population…a new (downward) trend line.
Had bart read the Geiers’ paper, he would have seen this. All he did was look at the charts and make assumptions about the data that were totally incorrect.
And his arrogance in doing so made him that less endearing. However, if he wishes to submit his criticism to the editor of the publication… it might be fun to see him embarrassed.
This message is for Erik,
That is true for the formulae; however, we still don’t seem to have an answer as to how ther Geiers attempt to control for, or even acknowledge the more restrictive criteria change in summer 2003.
It also doesn’t account for the spikes in July 2003 and after.
When do you suppose we will have answers to these?
Still waiting…..
Erik,
I’m sure if Bart submitted his criticism to the editor of J&PS or Medical Hyopthesis it would be summarily rejected because it would make sense.
You do realize the Geiers are not statisticians and have no clue what they’re doing half the time, right?
Sue,
The Geiers can complain about runarounds and bureacracy all they want. It doesn’t make their claims any more or less truthful.
Answer me this – if the VSD holds the answers to the autism-mercury controversy, why aren’t SafeMinds or any of these other advocacy organizations applying for access? That data is available, contrary to popular belief.
Why aren’t they using their grant money on proving that a link between thimerosal and neurodevelopmental disorders actually exists, rather than in vivo and in vitro research which already assume that it does? And if they have made such applications and have been rejected, please ask me why there hasn’t been a bigger stink made about that fact.
Nice rebuttal by proxy Erik
Did the Geiers say anything about all of the other pseudoscience they publish in throwaway rags? The geiers are Vultures, plain and simple. Cash and carrion….and on….and on….and on….
No self respecting scientist would submit a letter to be published in the same journal with the Geiers.
Erik, I closed that thread because I’m not interested in reinforming Fore Sam that homosexuals aren’t evil – I’m really sick of dealing with that noise.
There is one set of data, pure and simple. Did you not read MarkCC’s post on Orac’s blog? Do you need someone to explain it to you? Or do the Geiers need someone to explain that to them?
Simply because someone wants to impose a cutoff doesn’t mean that’s valid. Brad Pitt dumped Jennifer Aniston about the same time, so what is the significance of that? If they had gone through the correct analysis, they would have found that there is not enough data to support a trendline in the data at the end of the timecourse.
What happened was this: the dataset was split and two individual trendlines were created.
The problem is that I did read the paper. Further, I don’t lick their boots, so my head is clear and I have an objective assessment of the work.
Lastly, I would have to abandon my code of working for the good of the public if I were to try and publish in that journal.
Clone, who’s to say you’re not a vulture? The Geiers are honorable men. I wouldn’t take my daughter to them otherwise. Nobody touches my daughter if I don’t have absolute faith in them.
As for their legal consulting… they’re simply filling a need because they want to help parents. They’re so outraged, as we are, about the thimerosal issue that they’re doing anything they can to turn it around. They should be paid for their time. Do you do everything for free?
And anonimouse… where do you get the idea that the VSD is available for scrutiny? Nobody gets into see the VSD, unless they’re doing a CDC sanctioned study. There’s no independent verification and I challenge you to show OTHERWISE. You shouldn’t make such a comment…it’s totally false.
One more time: It’s NOT about FAITH.
Mouse wrote:
“Answer me this – if the VSD holds the answers to the autism-mercury controversy, why aren’t SafeMinds or any of these other advocacy organizations applying for access? That data is available, contrary to popular belief”.
– Good news. I just called SafeMinds… they had never thought of that before. They will be calling tomorrow to see if they can get in to check out the VSD data ASAP. Thank you for the idea.
Come on Mouse, you can’t be that ignorant, can you?
– Sue M.
Erik Nanstiel : Clone, who’s to say you’re not a vulture? The Geiers are honorable men.
Who’s to say? I never said I wasn’t. I also didn’t say anything about honor, just that they are vultures. Not intelligent birds of prey, just scavengers.
Why did you bring up legal consulting here? Is that something vultures do?
“The Geiers are honorable men. I wouldn’t take my daughter to them otherwise. Nobody touches my daughter if I don’t have absolute faith in them.”
Wow. It’s blind faith. The cool thing is that facts rather than opinions dominate this discussion.
Oh wait…
Geiers=Vultures
It’s a fact!
The uptrend represented autism cases when thimerosal was in vaccines at a fixed, high dose. It created a separate trend, worthy of a trend line.
But then, mercury was removed from the vaccines…which is a new event…a new population…a new (downward) trend line.
I don’t know how many times this needs to be expalined. The “trend” is not of “autism cases”. It’s a trend of “difference in cases”, which not surprisingly, has started to go down. When the increase in cases goes below population growth, let me know.
_” Unfortunately at times it is reduced to that, Kev. As you can see, no one here wants to comment on the Geiers video because “they are liarsâ€, they are “conspiracy theoristsâ€, etc. I believe that that is false, but unfortunately you say that and then can sit back and not answer the legit questions that their commentary poses… “_
Rather a large misconstruement of my position Sue. My opinions regarding the Geiers relate to their facile use of VAERS and CDDS data to support their beliefs. I don’t believe I’ve offered an opinion on their attempt to use VSD data at all.
_”Of course, this then begs the question. Why aren’t they letting in “more competent†researchers to prove the Geiers wrong? On a case of this magnitude they should be opening up the data (VSD) for the most competent of scientists to be let in… Instead what is happening, Kev? If you listened to the video you should know.”_
I heard the Geiers opinions of what they believe is happening and if what they say is true (that they are denied access to data) then thats certainly worthy of questioning. However, seeing as they obviously habitually misrepresent data or present it so incompetently that patient confidentiality is destroyed, one has a certain sympathy for anyone who might want to limit their access.
_”They’re so outraged, as we are, about the thimerosal issue that they’re doing anything they can to turn it around.”_
That sounds like a fantastic starting point for impartial, evidence based science. Science performed by two outraged men willing to do anything to turn the issue around. Marvellous.
Erik,
Pull up the VSD terms of service (you can find them on the CDC’s website) and tell me where the onerous restrictions are. Just because they don’t like any idiot with an FOIA request have access to the data doesn’t mean it’s unavailable.
Sue,
Why don’t you tell me why SafeMinds hasn’t bothered to commission a study? At the very least, why haven’t they shown us their rejected applications if they’ve been trying so hard?
You and I both know the answer to that.
Anonimouse…. the Geiers didn’t try to access it with an FOIA request. They had a CONGRESSIONAL MANDATE…and the permission from the HMOS (from which the data was collected). NOBODY sees the VSD, and I can’t believe you try to say otherwise simply because you read something on the CDC’s website. Only the CDC sees that database, and they won’t share the data.
And Bart…you have a way with twisting the facts. The data trends were split based on a pivotal event… you don’t listen. I know you don’t listen or read. You called them the “Griers” in your video and accused me of misspelling their last name. And you continue to call them that in your videos. You have an agenda, buddy…and it’s not science. You try to confuse people by misrepresenting the other side. It won’t work.
And when are you going to divulge your name? Frightened of being harrassed? I use my real name all the time. I’ve been demonized… had my head size made fun of… and read a lot of hilarious comments from the ND crowd… and you know what… I still use my real name.
You’re hiding behind a mask…because you know that when you’re taken to task…you have the freedom to embarrass yourself and switch aliases.
Cowardice.
Erik – here’s a direct link to the guidelines for researchers wishing to use VSD data. Maybe you should pass it on to the Geiers. I found lots of strict rules which is perfectly proper for data that contains info that can compromise patient confidentiality (and lets be honest – two men prepared in your words to ‘do anything’ to get a result are not the best people to place trust in with important data, as evidenced by their incompetence in compromising confidentiality once before). However, nowhere did I see a guideline that stated *’the Geiers are banned*.
The data trend split around the ‘pivotal event’ you talk about is the _opinion_ of the Geiers. This data is supposed to provide evidence _for_ that ‘pivotal event’ , you can’t have it both ways.
Your point about anonymous posters is ridiculous. There are just as many anonymous posters from your side of the debate as there are Bart’s. Its nothing to do with cowardice – either the arguments people present stand or fall on their own merits or they don’t.
Kev, you need to fix the link to the VSD guidelines — it’s got no href.
Oops – good spot Dave, thanks ;o)
Kevin, if you attempted to do a study on the thimerosal/autism issue using the VSD… assuming you could meet the stringent requirements for admission… any data you pull that comes close to implicating thimerosal will be WHITED OUT… and the excuse will be “patient confidentiality.” (Which is absurd, since names and addresses are never included in the data sets for researchers to see!) Rules and the illusion of transparency aside, there’s an agenda to cover-up this information.
You and Bart cannot dismiss the data in the Geiers’ VAERS study…or their use of it as “opinion.” That does not make the facts go away or magically conform to your twisted misrepresentations.
As for Aliases… I hate it when ANYBODY uses an alias if they’re misrepresenting data or abusing others. I’d prefer it if even friendly folks on our side would use their real names…
If you have something to say, you should be able to do it with your real name. That fact you use your real name, Kevin, is probably one of the few things about you that I respect.
Erik
_”Rules and the illusion of transparency aside, there’s an agenda to cover-up this information.”_
Wel thats your opinion, passionately held no doubt, but still just an opinion.
_”You and Bart cannot dismiss the data in the Geiers’ VAERS study…or their use of it as “opinion.†That does not make the facts go away or magically conform to your twisted misrepresentations.”_
Erik, you really have got this utterly wrong (as have the Geiers). VAERS state quite categoricaly that the database is free to have data put into by anyone, stating anything. Does that really sound like something that contains reliable data?
Further, there is good reason to suppose that that is exactly what has happened given the fact that various autism/thiomersal proponents have actively encouraged people to make reports, irrispective of whether thiomersal caused autism in their case or not.
I agree with you that this is frustrating. It would be great if we had really good historical prevalence data for both autism and thiomersal use but I’m afraid we don’t. If we did both sides would have a much clearer idea about where we all stood but I’m afraid extracting meaning from such badly corrupted data as this is useless.
Erik wrote:
“You called them the “Griers†in your video and accused me of misspelling their last name”.
– Did that really happen? How hilarious.
– Sue M.
Erik said: As for Aliases… I hate it when ANYBODY uses an alias if they’re misrepresenting data or abusing others.
Erik wrote:
” if you attempted to do a study on the thimerosal/autism issue using the VSD… assuming you could meet the stringent requirements for admission… any data you pull that comes close to implicating thimerosal will be WHITED OUT… and the excuse will be “patient confidentiality.†(Which is absurd, since names and addresses are never included in the data sets for researchers to see!) Rules and the illusion of transparency aside, there’s an agenda to cover-up this information.”
No Erik, depending on the data set, names and addresses might very well be accessible. It is really is a matter of confidentiality. I have worked with a number of databases like that in other projects. It is at times like this that I am incredibly thankful for the IRB for protecting people’s rights to confidentiality when there are those who seek access to this stuff who I am not convinced could care less about people’s right to privacy.
Will you ever support your assertions that the CDC is out to obscure data?
Erik, I thought ‘Greiers’ was funny, but the fact that the proper way to say the name in German means Vulture (as clone has been alluding to – I didn’t pick up on it until clone directly emailed me) trumps any lame joke of mine – plus it’s actually true.
Now, why should you care what handle I use? Why should I care what your name is? What do I care about your hat size? Why does Fore Sam get so angry about my name and why does he perseverate on my testicles – I mean it’s incessant. Does knowing Kev’s real name make you feel like you know him just that much better? I don’t care who you are, and I don’t ever think about it. It bothers me that someone can worship some money-grubbing Las Vegas-style prophet (or is it profit) and place the care of their child in the hands of those people, but that’s my opinion — nothing more, nothing less.
Why do you get so defensive of the Geiers? Would it make you feel better if you knocked some nobel laureate that I admire to get back at me? Go for it, that might actually be interesting rather than the stupidity of getting angry that I think that some scientist is a moron. The only thing that makes sense is that you are actually using these morons to treat your daughter and the criticisms of them scare you. Good. Second opinons are valuable.
You can argue about the intent of tweedle dee and tweedle dumber all you want – intent doesn’t matter in science. People who do this stuff for a living have lined up and spat on the work. If you want to make me the issue to get your mind off the dangers dealing with rash pseudoscientists then give me a minute to get some caffeine so I can stay awake while you blather. I’m just kidding – I really don’t want to hear you blather anymore.