Andrew Zimmerman Finally Speaks

24 Mar

A year ago I tried to talk to Andrew Zimmerman about the Hannah Poling case and was told:

Dr. Zimmerman…….is not able to publicly discuss this patient. As a participant in this case, the family provided consent for Dr. Zimmerman to share information with the court, but we do not have parental consent to discuss the patient publicly – as we are bound by HIPAA privacy regulations, as in any healthcare setting in the U.S.

And in the year that has followed the Polings have not allowed Zimmerman to publicly comment once. Now I’m beginning to understand why.

Sullivan told me that yesterday the Expert Witness reports for the Respondents were made public and that Zimmermans was eyebrow raising to say the least.

Furthermore, there is no evidence of an association between autism andthe alleged reaction to MMR a nd Hg, and it is more likely than not, that there is a genetic basis for autism in this child.”

“Michelle Cedillo’s developmental regression was likely to have been
preprogrammed before birth to emerge, as it does in Rett syndrome, long after birth.”

“Autism, in most cases, begins before birth, and the maternal
“environment” in the womb is likely to be important in the process.”

“there is no scientific basis for a connection between measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine or mercury (Hg) intoxication and autism.”

“Autism is primarily a genetically determined disorder.” There is a
hypothetical basis, but very limited evidence, for environmental factors
(such as stress or the drug terbutalinel l) that may act together with
an individual’s genetic susceptibility to increase the risk of autism.
There is strong evidence that the origins of autism begin before birth,
based on genetic and anatomical studies as well as chemical findings at birth in children who go on to develop autism. The usual time
period when autism appears and is diagnosed during the 2nd and 3′” years of life reflects the dynamic nature of the child’s developing brain and the appearance of pre-programmed disordered expression of genes and preexisting cellular abnormalities that result in the child’s regression with loss of language and social skills.”

Recall once more that this is the man – along with Jon Poling himself and along with John Shoffner (who also doesn’t think much of Polings beliefs) who co-authored the only piece of science performed on Hannah Poling.

No wonder the Poling’s were so keen to keep Zimmerman quiet.

Thanks to Sullivan for some of this.

83 Responses to “Andrew Zimmerman Finally Speaks”

  1. One Queer Fish March 29, 2009 at 16:07 #

    Simply,it is a legal case establishing a principle or rule that a court or other judicial body adopts when deciding subsequent cases with similar issues or facts I think? no doubt i shall stand corrected if need be..

  2. Kev March 29, 2009 at 16:08 #

    I’m going to ask you again Fishy – do you know what a legal precedent is? If you think you do, how would Obama influence it?

  3. Sullivan March 29, 2009 at 16:11 #


    that quote is so often taken out of context. I tried to find the video of Mr. Obama making that statement on YouTube. It’s probably there somewhere, but I couldn’t find it right away. Let’s face it, that video would be all over YouTube and the rest of the internet if it weren’t for the fact that Mr. Obama was clearly indicating that “this person” was someone else.

  4. One Queer Fish March 29, 2009 at 16:18 #

    Kev simply,Obama shall flex his influence by appointing Judges who don’t come from the school of Merck

    Quite simply, Judges have been got at..wouldnt you agree Obama seems to think so…

    A couple more quotes from Obama currently in motion in America

    “I taught constitutional law for 10 years, and . . . when you look at what makes a great Supreme Court justice, it’s not just the particular issue and how they rule, but it’s their conception of the Court. And part of the role of the Court is that it is going to protect people who may be vulnerable in the political process, the outsider, the minority, those who are vulnerable, those who don’t have a lot of clout.
    . . . [S]ometimes we’re only looking at academics or people who’ve been in the [lower] court. If we can find people who have life experience and they understand what it means to be on the outside, what it means to have the system not work for them, that’s the kind of person I want on the Supreme Court.”

    “We need somebody who’s got the heart, the empathy, to recognize what it’s like to be a young teenage mom. The empathy to understand what it’s like to be poor, or African-American, or gay, or disabled, or old. And that’s the criteria by which I’m going to be selecting my judges.”

    You see Kev time to jump ship before you are pushed…

  5. Dedj March 29, 2009 at 17:01 #

    Indeed Sullivan.

    I can find youtube videos of both the april 21st and april 22nd rallies and the question isn’t even mentioned.

    The nearest to it is the Washington Post video at where he clearly points to the person, at 0:05.

    I’m still amazed that people would rather take the word of someone on the campaign trail above and beyond those of the multiple, international and seasoned veterans who have been looking into this issue for years – including those that have had a major influence on expanding the criteria to what it is today.

  6. Kev March 29, 2009 at 17:21 #

    Oh and Fishy? If you want to trade Obama quotes, how about this one?

    I am not for selective vaccination, I believe that it will bring back deadly diseases, like polio.

  7. Dedj March 29, 2009 at 17:22 #

    Interestingly enough, that video was provided by Obama’s own campaign team on the 22nd of April. It was so deeply buried that I had to rely upon a chance commentator to AgeOfAutism to find it.

    Had it shown Obama reffering to himself…..well, it would have taken seconds to find dozens of sites with it splashed everywhere. Given how small (yet noisy) the vaccine autism movement actually is, ‘dozens’ of sites represents a significant proportion.

  8. One Queer Fish March 29, 2009 at 17:53 #

    Simply, Kev …I want to believe, but there is so much out there that contradicts the views on this forum ..i.e. to context your Obama quote
    Obama went onto say.. “in so many words that he is for more science and the funding of more science if it’s needed. “ in align with the quotes above I have quoted ..

    full article here

    I simply, find the venom on here similar to the “venom to within the brief, of the Cidellos , attorneys address on the “venom” with which the Special Master attacked Dr. Krigsman with ..until you all alleviate it your never going to be openminded ..are we Dejd

  9. Kev March 29, 2009 at 18:19 #

    There is a lot that contradicts the opinions on here yes. But it is bad science unrecognised by serious scientists and now the law.

    If Obama wants more science done then more power to him but it will only find more of the same and the venom you speak of will increase. Because whilst you insist on ‘one more study’ again and again and again and again they fail to support your position you are spending more and more research and legal money on shit. That research money could be going towards helping autistic people with education, employment and housing.

  10. Dedj March 29, 2009 at 18:21 #

    ““in so many words that he is for more science and the funding of more science if it’s needed. ”

    ……..which pretty much aligns with the majority view of the people here. If there is a sign that the science is needed, then let it happen. It’s already happened and there’s very little left of the original vaccines=autism hypothesis left. Even Poling threw out two thirds of the original hypothesis in his statement just a few weeks ago.

    Not sure what you’re talking about in terms of venom. We don’t like you because you’ve shown yourself to be an idiot who will gladly throw out anything and will never apologise for or even recognise that you distort your own sources, make shit up and otherwise bullshit.

    The amount of venom here that has been directed towards Kirby, Healy*, Olmstead et al. is small compared to the numerous attempts of character and professional assassination launched against Offit, Verstraten, Gerberding, DeSteffano and the like.

    I was never this bitter until I started to realise that people like you, and many of the people you support will gladly claim anything about their opponents.

    *who we all know would be called a “irrelevantly qualified pharma-shill” if she was pro-vaccine, and who was unknown to the anti-vax world until she started making vague mumblings in that direction.

  11. Anon visitor March 29, 2009 at 19:21 #

    They would have to go right back to the beginning, dump Wakefield, dump measles virus, dump opioid peptides, and all that stuff which was fabricated for the class action and omnibus lawsuits, and think of some other mechanism. Even then, they would still be without any epidemiology.

    For these folk to have any hope of getting even one of these kids past a judge, they have to repudiate the Wakefield fraud, and start again. A decade into the trashcan.

    And that’s what’s so weird: they can’t see it. They are so caught up with defending a charlatan – it’s like all charlatans must be defended or we’re all in trouble – that they are paralyzed.

    Course, they would then have to find new science, of which none has been done. Come back in 2020 and talk about vaccines causing autism.

  12. One Queer Fish March 29, 2009 at 19:36 #

    Simply ,I quite agree that the science up until now under Bush et-al has been shit, 7 years Bush has stopped Stem Cell use ..shame on him.
    Under Obama the science is going to speak the truth once and for all guys, you’ve read the mans words above and cant fail to acknowledge, it is time for change.Unlike Blairs mantra” things can only get better” nobody asked for whom?wz it the bankers who??

    Venom Dejd
    Simply,the most toxic substance on earth is stupidity and not venom but this site gives it a run for its money .You have to realise if you get elbowed enough junk science from Merck ET-AL , eventually you start elbowing back,Quite simply you cant beat Obama so you spit venom at anyone that is standing up for him just the same venom as used for Dr Wakefield,at best your venom, is spin to save your skin.

    Im not convinced by anyones play acting on here ,it is a joke ,simple to say,probably the best pantomime seen in a while,if it were Christmas I would recommend people to come here.

    Simply until the discussion lightens up with, say the Mr Deer Judge Eady letters of complaint I shall leave you in peace.Im away to eat my traditional Sunday lunch of Spag bol ,
    spin required to eat not disturb

  13. Joseph March 29, 2009 at 19:43 #

    Im not convinced by anyones play acting on here ,it is a joke ,simple to say,probably the best pantomime seen in a while,if it were Christmas I would recommend people to come here.

    If that were true, you would not be spending your time here, now would you? You can cling to your elaborate conspiracy theories all you like, and pretend “the truth” is on your side, but deep down you know you’re full of shit, don’t you Fish?

  14. One Queer Fish March 29, 2009 at 19:48 #

    Laugh i nearly bought a beer then ..shit is alive thin and fast on here i cant compete..

  15. Dedj March 29, 2009 at 19:50 #

    “Quite simply you cant beat Obama”

    He didn’t say what you implied he did, and this information has been freely available for the best part of a year…..and is actually available from your own source.

    That is the height of incompetance there fishy!

    “Judge Eady letters of complaint”

    Sorry, the first one has been available for over a week now, as linked to above. Guess what? It matches Deer’s story exactly and has been misread in exactly the way I predicted.

    Sorry, but you can’t even keep up and don’t even bother to check your own sources properly. Stop kidding yourself that you’re a serious commentator.

  16. Dedj March 29, 2009 at 19:54 #

    Sorry guys, but this guy is a joke, and I’m seriously concerned about his mental health and lack of honesty and integrity.

    I have a clinical placement soon, so unless this gets interesting, I’ll be butting out for most of the time being.

    Fishy can claim what he wants to about that. Let’s be honest, he pretty much claims what he wants to about anything.

  17. One Queer Fish March 29, 2009 at 19:59 #

    “ serious commentator”

    Simply,I’ve never considered myself as serious, just you all on here are so paranoid ,you take everyone so serious. Simply this forum is an arena for angry, tortured minds open only to Pharma spin.

  18. Anon visitor March 29, 2009 at 20:36 #

    I just read Deer’s letter to the GMC. It’s great. If you compare it with the charges, it looks like what the GMC did was prove his journalism for him. He must be pretty much thrilled that someone has put it online. If Wakefield goes down, Deer will come out of this thing looking like Bob Woodward.

  19. One Queer Fish March 29, 2009 at 21:09 #

    Simply,since Mr Deer ( I assume ) has gone that far, if in fact the scan is accurate. Surely he would publish the rest namely 25 February, 12 March and 1 July 2004 as detailed by Judge Eady as the complaint letters.

    Seemingly there must be more to fear in the other complaint letters ..

  20. Anon visitor March 29, 2009 at 21:38 #

    Forgive me being new to this blog, but who is this fish zero? Deer hasn’t published this letter, and I can’t imagine he would publish any others – at least not till it’s all over.

    That has to be the most defamatory letter I have ever read, accusing three doctors of experimenting on autistic children for profit. I can’t believe anyone thought they were harming Deer by putting this stuff online. They were only harming the doctors. He obvious wouldn’t do it himself, since he wants to wait until the GMC has proved it all for him, and then he will step forward and claim the glory.

    Looking at the first letter, there is a big ‘W’ at the top of it, and the GMC letter is to Wakefield. This surely means that Wakefield has released this material to damage either his colleagues or Deer, and if he wanted to he could publish the rest. I don’t see how Deer is harmed by this, and I should think Deer is praying that he does. If it’s more of the same, only a crazy guy would publish it. Unless it is all totally true, they will get sued by Professor Smith or Dr Murch.

    My bet is it’s all true.

    There is dumb, dumber, and then this ‘cryshame’ outfit.

  21. One Queer Fish March 29, 2009 at 21:50 #

    Quite simply if it was from the Dr Wakefield camp why would they score out Brian Deers e-mail address on the very second line of the transmission? simply ,whoever leaked the memo were hoping , to get the … leak timed his or her actions to inflict maximum damage on Dr Wakefield ,at the GMC , but not release Mr Deer’s curious one Anon ,no wonder you don’t put your real name to it ?

  22. Kev March 29, 2009 at 23:50 #

    Fishy I’m becoming increasingly embarrassed for you. First you think Obama’s your new best friend, certain of a vaccine/autism link, then you struggle with the concept of a legal precedent and now…well…in between faux humorous attempts to sign off like you really don’t care you now call everyone on here paranoid and then say everyone’s out to get you..LOL…you couldn’t make it up.

    Some genuine advice my scaly, slime covered friend. Take a break. Recharge your batteries. Go for a walk. Your faith in Obama’s personal mission to vindicate you is touching but I think it is slightly unhinging you. No shame in that but I know a guy in need of a time out when I see one.

  23. One Queer Fish March 30, 2009 at 00:22 #

    Kev come on you know Obama isn’t going to save the world ,Legal precedent ,nobody corrected me on that one, i assume I am right. I take it you enjoy my faux humorous comments, Paranoid? the Shinning with Jack Nicholson in it looks humorous compared to the paranoia on here..

    Time out is for the tired such as Dejd .. Simply ,no doubt if Anon was right with the “mythology” to the Deer complaint letter , I would have heard back ,by now.. means the cranks such as I are right ..

  24. Anne March 30, 2009 at 02:09 #

    “The affidavit and expert witness reports by Dr. Zimmerman in support of Hanah Poling is what the Government does not want the public to see.”

    As far as I know, the Poling family is free to disseminate Dr. Zimmerman’s expert witness report and affidavit if they want to.

    Likewise, the Hazlehursts and the Snyders are free to publish their Motions for Review, like the Cedillos did. However, the Polings, the Hazlehursts and the Snyders are taking advantage of the confidentiality rules of the forum. There’s nothing wrong with that, of course, but it doesn’t mean that the government is hiding information.

  25. One Queer Fish March 30, 2009 at 11:33 #

    Quite simply ,in a court of law the golden rule is the less the other side knows the better,nothing to hide just were not letting you see it just now …simple as that a bit like the Judge Eady complaint letters

  26. Kev March 30, 2009 at 18:27 #

    Fishy, I admire your faith. Lets make a bet. A gentlemans wager. Andrew Wakefield won’t get past Daubert in a civil court for the Cedillos.

  27. Sullivan March 30, 2009 at 19:06 #


    note that the Petitioners made a big point of avoiding Andrew Wakefield in the Omnibus. Somehow, they thought if they don’t bring him up, they could still talk about his ideas on MMR and causaion and not have the “taint”. It didn’t work.

  28. One Queer Fish March 30, 2009 at 19:55 #

    Kev your on, how are you going to pay me Paypal Ill let you know when the time comes

    Sully the busted flush is yet to come keep the cards close to you …just like Mr Deer and the Judge Eady complaint letters,the least known the better wouldnt you say??

  29. Kev March 30, 2009 at 22:07 #

    Money? Oh no, no, no. I had something better than that in mind 🙂 I’ll let *you* know closer to the time.

  30. One Queer Fish March 30, 2009 at 22:10 #

    Beer ??im gagging for one …

  31. Dedj March 31, 2009 at 00:04 #

    “Simply ,no doubt if Anon was right with the “mythology” to the Deer complaint letter , I would have heard back ,by now.. means the cranks such as I are right ..”

    No. Not hearing about the Deer letter being fake (which only Anon seems to think it is anyway) does not in any way shape or form validate your own interpretation of it.

    I’ll repeat, just based on the first page alone, it appears to match Deer’s claims exactly.


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